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"Why are you asking?" Because every time there is anything that may be critical of Brexit from any part of government there are are cries of traitor. Is that OK? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word..." Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between " So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between " We are leaving. That is what people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you also want to erect a wall around the UK and cut off all ties with the rest of Europe? Or do you think we need to continue working together, albeit outwith the formal structure of the EU? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous?" It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. " Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? | |||
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"I think a lot of the problem is that a lot of the more vocal brexiteers are of the “we want everything but aren’t prepared to give up anything” kind.... I really want to slap the person who came up with the “they need us more than we need them” mantra because it distorts all reasonable discussion " It was Paul Nuttall of the UKIP’s (they were a political party that appealed to white supremacists, racists and xenophobes). | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being?" Is the car coming because its heard of our generous welfare system and free health care that it hasn't contributed to in any way? | |||
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" Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? Is the car coming because its heard of our generous welfare system and free health care that it hasn't contributed to in any way? " I suppose we do have a problem when people choose to believe that that the NHS is better than the German Health Service and that Germans would leave their homes in droves to benon the dole in England. Regrettably far too many people in this country believe such shite and that is why we are turning into an island of inward looking scaredy cats. | |||
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"i suppose if we had another vote, bearing in mind we are all a little bit clearer about the mess, and we voted to stay then anyone disagreeing with that vote would be a traitor by these standards? "The referendum and any narrow subsequent margin (either way) is only indicative of the country being divided on the issue. The responsibility of Government is to unite our country and not drag 50% down a path that they don’t want to go down and thereby risk decades of division. And yes, I would have said the same thing had it been the other way round. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being?" I just knew that someone was going to say something like that 
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense."You are harking back to the way things were 50 years ago. Successive UK Governments voted for the transformation of Europe that you see today. That world you yearn for no longer exists. The reality is the UK is a middle ranking European power that has opted to isolate itself. The effects of that isolation will be felt in every aspect of our lives and in ways that few gave much thought to when casting their vote. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being?" You seem to be perfectly happy with that very concept when you buy an item of clothing manufactured in Bangladesh, a smartphone that is made in China or a punnet of grapes grown in Chile! | |||
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"The only "traitor" I've read about recently is that chap Skripal. He was a public official in Russia who took $100,000 from the British taxpayer in exchange for Russian state secrets and was sentenced to jail in Siberia. Bribery and corruption of foreign officials." Agree. He didn't do it for ideological reasons, just for greed. He'd make a good tory cabinet minister. Just needs an offshore bank account and bobs your uncle  | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between We are leaving. That is what people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less. "
People who voted Leave just want a proper Brexit, that means leaving the single market and the customs union. All of the main players (including the prime minister at the time) on both sides of the referendum campaign said a vote to leave means leaving the single market and the customs union.
Anything less now will be a betrayal of the Leave vote.
The Conservatives did very well last night in areas that voted strongly to Leave the EU, and Labour who predicted big gains flopped. Reason being Labour have gone soft on Brexit and their policy is to keep us in the customs union, this is why many Leave voters have now ditched Labour and are voting Conservative. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between We are leaving. That is what people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less.
People who voted Leave just want a proper Brexit, that means leaving the single market and the customs union. All of the main players (including the prime minister at the time) on both sides of the referendum campaign said a vote to leave means leaving the single market and the customs union.
Anything less now will be a betrayal of the Leave vote.
The Conservatives did very well last night in areas that voted strongly to Leave the EU, and Labour who predicted big gains flopped. Reason being Labour have gone soft on Brexit and their policy is to keep us in the customs union, this is why many Leave voters have now ditched Labour and are voting Conservative. "There speaks the words of the know it all ukipper We salute you as allways for talking utter bollocks as allways | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between We are leaving. That is what people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less.
People who voted Leave just want a proper Brexit, that means leaving the single market and the customs union. All of the main players (including the prime minister at the time) on both sides of the referendum campaign said a vote to leave means leaving the single market and the customs union.
Anything less now will be a betrayal of the Leave vote.
The Conservatives did very well last night in areas that voted strongly to Leave the EU, and Labour who predicted big gains flopped. Reason being Labour have gone soft on Brexit and their policy is to keep us in the customs union, this is why many Leave voters have now ditched Labour and are voting Conservative. "So, back to my post. You just used the word "betrayal". Betrayal of 52% of the population who voted to leave or betrayal of the country? To not betray the country does everyone have to say that Brexit is good? No reports should be written indicating anything different. All legal rulings should support Brexit regardless of the law? All citizens have to agree that it will be great for them? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense."Commerce is the free movement of: Goods Services Capitol Labour Do you disagree? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?"No, it's not. Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour. Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement."So we don't have to do any trade negotiations with anyone? Does that mean that any concession in any negotiation is a "betrayal"? Why bother then? What's to negotiate? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
So we don't have to do any trade negotiations with anyone?
Does that mean that any concession in any negotiation is a "betrayal"?
Why bother then? What's to negotiate?"What on earth are you on about? Commerce is not the free movement of goods, Labour, capitol and services. Do you not understand that? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
So we don't have to do any trade negotiations with anyone?
Does that mean that any concession in any negotiation is a "betrayal"?
Why bother then? What's to negotiate?
What on earth are you on about? Commerce is not the free movement of goods, Labour, capitol and services. Do you not understand that? "I think you will discover that a lot more than trade is on the table when “trade agreements” are signed. I am looking forward to your reaction when the UK agrees to remove the cap on the number of Indian students allowed to study at UK universities in return for lower duty on Johnny Walker whisky sold in India. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
So we don't have to do any trade negotiations with anyone?
Does that mean that any concession in any negotiation is a "betrayal"?
Why bother then? What's to negotiate?
What on earth are you on about? Commerce is not the free movement of goods, Labour, capitol and services. Do you not understand that? "Commerce is trade in goods only. Our economy is 70% services. Not goods. Do we not wish to deal in services? Free trade, which is what negotiated agreements are for, facilitate the wider interactions. A free market includes all of the things that I noted. So which do you want? 
As an amusing aside, commerce is also the social dealings between people  | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement." the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous. "The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol. Half truths Centaur. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous. "I almost let you evade the actual question in the thread. Good distraction 
How do you define Brexit betrayal and treachery Centaur?
Who should be purged? What are we allowed to say and think? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur."So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally. "It's not an admission as I haven't denied anything. If you want free trade, this is the most integrated market on the planet. Anything else is a lesser version, most specifically in services which make up 70% of our economy. Do you feel able to acknowledge that? So, about the question I actually posted for the thread. Any thoughts? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally. "Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation."Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
It's not an admission as I haven't denied anything.
If you want free trade, this is the most integrated market on the planet. Anything else is a lesser version, most specifically in services which make up 70% of our economy.
Do you feel able to acknowledge that?
"The most integrated market on the planet, which has the lowest growth of any continent on the planet, apart from Antarctica.  | |||
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Can you respond to the thread please? Yes or no? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP. "So not to get fucked over by Brexit we have to totally tear down & rebuild our economy... Great, thanks | |||
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| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
So not to get fucked over by Brexit we have to totally tear down & rebuild our economy...
Great, thanks "Its too late for that, people are too precious to get their hands dirty these days. After all that's what immigrants are for right? If we stop them coming in who will fix our plumbing, or our cars, or build our homes? Us nice brits should just be making money emailing each other for gods sake! | |||
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"Brexit, the gift that just can't stop giving  "well at least they aren't peddling the line of the "super duper US trade deal" anymore..... and the proposed UK-Canada deal is exactly the same word for word as the EU-Canada deal, which it basically an admission that that was the best deal available for both sides... just a shame we won't have EU negoiators to help out with deals in future then... | |||
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 | |||
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"The economy needs rebalancing “by someone”. “Some” patriots will obviously start investing £billions tooling up our manufacturing sector to build “stuff” that we can sell more expensively than the same shit that is made in Asia. As a business plan ... it works "thats exactly what JRM advocates in his other capacities .... honest. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
So not to get fucked over by Brexit we have to totally tear down & rebuild our economy...
Great, thanks
Its too late for that, people are too precious to get their hands dirty these days. After all that's what immigrants are for right? If we stop them coming in who will fix our plumbing, or our cars, or build our homes? Us nice brits should just be making money emailing each other for gods sake! "So, on topic, are people who work in the service industry or employ immigrants betraying the country? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP. "Have you considered that UK may have influenced the EU’s negotiating position re services? The interests of the UK no longer have any influence on the EU’s negotiating position. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP. "Why do you think they were prepared to look at services in a deal? As opposed to us not getting a deal - could it be size of market? We are 60m the USA is around 300m - it's a case of size matters!!! | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between We are leaving. That is what people voted for. Nothing more, nothing less.
People who voted Leave just want a proper Brexit, that means leaving the single market and the customs union. All of the main players (including the prime minister at the time) on both sides of the referendum campaign said a vote to leave means leaving the single market and the customs union.
"That's all very well and good, but at what point were they actually going to take a moment to consider the implication of those actions? I mean, If I ask you "Do you want to go on holiday next week?" You might say "yes"... but then you'd need to consider what would it cost? where would we go? Can I get time off work? Do I need to arrange childcare? What do I need in terms of visas, money, insurance, jabs, etc. And when you stop and consider all those things, you might decide that on balance, going on holiday right now might not be the best thing to do. Despite the fact you might want to, there might be other consideration that mean it is not the best thing to do. So we now have the situation that the country was asked a question (Do you want to go on holiday?) and just over half said "yeah sure!" and just under half said "No, we don't right now". And now the whole country is being dragged on holiday whether it suits them or not. Some are going to get fired as they were not able to get time off work. Some will be done for neglect leaving their children at home without childcare, or taking them out of school during term time. Some have now realised that actually the cost of flights didn't include transfers or meals, and they have air duty to pay on top as well, and that means they are going to blow their budget and be skint. Yes. That was an analogy. -Matt | |||
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"So, on topic, are people who work in the service industry or employ immigrants betraying the country?" I employed a very skilled Australian/Greek woman and a very good South African / Estonia chap. Both degree educated software engineers. Both being paid salaries that put them in higher rate tax level. Guess I'm off to the gallows then. -Matt | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!!" Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt" That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side " So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework? | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?"So you agree it's not 98% of the time then? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP. "Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos. You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition. Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from? The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it? The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out. | |||
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"Not one Leave supporter has been able to provide any definition of why opposing Brexit is a betrayal. It appears to be nothing but noise, bullying and intimidation. You will be held to this in this forum from now on." I actually answered your question in one of my earlier posts, but still you continue to ask the same questions even when they've been answered. You do this on other threads too when people have already given you answers. It seems you just don't listen when people say something you don't want to hear. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
It's not an admission as I haven't denied anything.
If you want free trade, this is the most integrated market on the planet. Anything else is a lesser version, most specifically in services which make up 70% of our economy.
Do you feel able to acknowledge that?
The most integrated market on the planet, which has the lowest growth of any continent on the planet, apart from Antarctica. "Do you understand economic growth? If you are poor the potential for rapid growth is huge. If you are rich growth will be slow and steady. Fast growing, poorer nations may have lots of people getting better off but they cannot afford or want, the things that we sell. They are also a long way away. Wealth is spread far more evenly in Europe, due to that pesky socialism, than the USA or any developing economy. Somebody tell me what the world needs that only we sell? What can't they get closer to home and cheaper that we can produce in sufficient quantity to keep our economy going? If the EU or a Customs Union is such a handicap how come Germany and Switzerland both have trade surpluses with China but we cannot manage it? Is anything our responsibility or is it always someone else's fault? So, Centaur, you do Not want integrated trade deals? What do you want? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos.
You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition.
Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from?
The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it?
The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out."Putting all of your eggs in one basket (services) as you and other remainers seem to want to do is not a good idea. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket. In fact I'd say it's a really bad idea and leaves us vulnerable in ways which wouldn't happen if the economy was more balanced. Yet again you appear to be putting words in my mouth, no where did I say we should get rid of services completely! I said the economy needs rebalancing which means we should have a more healthy mix of manufacturing alongside services as the economy is too heavily reliant and too top heavy on services at the moment. | |||
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"Not one Leave supporter has been able to provide any definition of why opposing Brexit is a betrayal. It appears to be nothing but noise, bullying and intimidation. You will be held to this in this forum from now on. I actually answered your question in one of my earlier posts, but still you continue to ask the same questions even when they've been answered. You do this on other threads too when people have already given you answers. It seems you just don't listen when people say something you don't want to hear. " Why not repeat it to refresh my poor memory? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos.
You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition.
Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from?
The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it?
The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out.
Putting all of your eggs in one basket (services) as you and other remainers seem to want to do is not a good idea. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket. In fact I'd say it's a really bad idea and leaves us vulnerable in ways which wouldn't happen if the economy was more balanced. Yet again you appear to be putting words in my mouth, no where did I say we should get rid of services completely! I said the economy needs rebalancing which means we should have a more healthy mix of manufacturing alongside services as the economy is too heavily reliant and too top heavy on services at the moment. "Rebalance to what? Manufacturing of what? Investment from where? Skilled staff from where? How long? If we lose trade in services how quickly will jobs be lost here? You may not want to kill the sector but you will if you cut off access to its biggest market. | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?
So you agree it's not 98% of the time then?"Utterly fatuous argument. Why quibble over this? To "win" on a technical point? Would it be reasonable to expect to get your way 100% of the time? What proportion of the time do members of any UK political party get their way over any given period of time? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos.
You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition.
Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from?
The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it?
The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out.
Putting all of your eggs in one basket (services) as you and other remainers seem to want to do is not a good idea. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket. In fact I'd say it's a really bad idea and leaves us vulnerable in ways which wouldn't happen if the economy was more balanced. Yet again you appear to be putting words in my mouth, no where did I say we should get rid of services completely! I said the economy needs rebalancing which means we should have a more healthy mix of manufacturing alongside services as the economy is too heavily reliant and too top heavy on services at the moment.
Rebalance to what?
Manufacturing of what?
Investment from where?
Skilled staff from where?
How long?
If we lose trade in services how quickly will jobs be lost here? You may not want to kill the sector but you will if you cut off access to its biggest market."Maybe you missed my thread about the German banking boss a few weeks ago. He said the UK and the city of London will remain Europe's number one financial centre after Brexit. These are not the comments of someone with a vested interest in Leave, these are the comments of one of Germany's highest ranking and most influential banking bosses! Your shrill cries that Brexit will 'kill the sectar' are divorced from reality! | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?
So you agree it's not 98% of the time then?
Utterly fatuous argument. Why quibble over this? To "win" on a technical point?
Would it be reasonable to expect to get your way 100% of the time?
What proportion of the time do members of any UK political party get their way over any given period of time?"Why quibble over it? Because the 98% figure quoted by remainers on here is fucking wrong that's why. | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!!" You have no right to claim to speak for them. This is one of very few things that get me genuinely angry. How dare you claim to know what their view might have been. Nonsense. The British people have been told all manner of things. They voted to leave the European Union. No more. No less. To claim to know the myriad reasons for this or what outcome or final deal they expected is again extreme arrogance. We leave the EU. If that's in a Customs Union or cut loose in the world is completely free for debate. Again, on topic, if anyone points out the dangers of one approach or advocates a direction that you do not like, is that betrayal? | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?
So you agree it's not 98% of the time then?
Utterly fatuous argument. Why quibble over this? To "win" on a technical point?
Would it be reasonable to expect to get your way 100% of the time?
What proportion of the time do members of any UK political party get their way over any given period of time?
Why quibble over it? Because the 98% figure quoted by remainers on here is fucking wrong that's why. "You are saying that getting your wHat 98% of the time is acceptable but if it's 88% of the time we should give up on the whole enterprise and completely recast our place in the world because it's worth the risk? What is the point you are trying to make? Finally, on topic, can you define what is treacherous about disagreeing with Brexit or warning of it's downsides? | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!!"
Great post!
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?
So you agree it's not 98% of the time then?
Utterly fatuous argument. Why quibble over this? To "win" on a technical point?
Would it be reasonable to expect to get your way 100% of the time?
What proportion of the time do members of any UK political party get their way over any given period of time?"You were caught out lying, and now your trying to deflect that lie. | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! You have no right to claim to speak for them. This is one of very few things that get me genuinely angry. How dare you claim to know what their view might have been. Nonsense. The British people have been told all manner of things. They voted to leave the European Union. No more. No less. To claim to know the myriad reasons for this or what outcome or final deal they expected is again extreme arrogance. We leave the EU. If that's in a Customs Union or cut loose in the world is completely free for debate. Again, on topic, if anyone points out the dangers of one approach or advocates a direction that you do not like, is that betrayal?" Do you get just as angry when remainers say they know the reasons that people voted to leave, or indeed when they say they know why people voted to stay? | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?
So you agree it's not 98% of the time then?
Utterly fatuous argument. Why quibble over this? To "win" on a technical point?
Would it be reasonable to expect to get your way 100% of the time?
What proportion of the time do members of any UK political party get their way over any given period of time?
You were caught out lying, and now your trying to deflect that lie."I didn't even state the statistic, simpleton. I'm neither lying nor deflecting. This post is about what constitutes betrayal or treachery. What have you had to say in that context? | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! You have no right to claim to speak for them. This is one of very few things that get me genuinely angry. How dare you claim to know what their view might have been. Nonsense. The British people have been told all manner of things. They voted to leave the European Union. No more. No less. To claim to know the myriad reasons for this or what outcome or final deal they expected is again extreme arrogance. We leave the EU. If that's in a Customs Union or cut loose in the world is completely free for debate. Again, on topic, if anyone points out the dangers of one approach or advocates a direction that you do not like, is that betrayal? Do you get just as angry when remainers say they know the reasons that people voted to leave, or indeed when they say they know why people voted to stay?" As do leavers. Dumb in both cases. However, that is no way near claiming to know what thoughts sponsorship died fighting for they're country might have thought. What an appalling and inappropriate parallel to attempt to draw. Now, how about answering the question in the thread? Can't or won't? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos.
You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition.
Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from?
The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it?
The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out.
Putting all of your eggs in one basket (services) as you and other remainers seem to want to do is not a good idea. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket. In fact I'd say it's a really bad idea and leaves us vulnerable in ways which wouldn't happen if the economy was more balanced. Yet again you appear to be putting words in my mouth, no where did I say we should get rid of services completely! I said the economy needs rebalancing which means we should have a more healthy mix of manufacturing alongside services as the economy is too heavily reliant and too top heavy on services at the moment.
Rebalance to what?
Manufacturing of what?
Investment from where?
Skilled staff from where?
How long?
If we lose trade in services how quickly will jobs be lost here? You may not want to kill the sector but you will if you cut off access to its biggest market.
Maybe you missed my thread about the German banking boss a few weeks ago. He said the UK and the city of London will remain Europe's number one financial centre after Brexit. These are not the comments of someone with a vested interest in Leave, these are the comments of one of Germany's highest ranking and most influential banking bosses! Your shrill cries that Brexit will 'kill the sectar' are divorced from reality! "Yes I missed your thread about what the Chairman of the Bundesbank said, but perfectly aware that he said it. You, like Trump, are arrogant to the point that you assume that everyone thinks and behaves the way that you do and believe that you are so great that you don't know when you are being told what you want to hear. Not everyone tries to get their way with bullying and intimidation. Your other hero, Putin, uses misdirection and denial just as effectively. What do you think the consequences of not having a European banking licence would be? Do you know what they are? | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos.
You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition.
Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from?
The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it?
The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out.
Putting all of your eggs in one basket (services) as you and other remainers seem to want to do is not a good idea. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket. In fact I'd say it's a really bad idea and leaves us vulnerable in ways which wouldn't happen if the economy was more balanced. Yet again you appear to be putting words in my mouth, no where did I say we should get rid of services completely! I said the economy needs rebalancing which means we should have a more healthy mix of manufacturing alongside services as the economy is too heavily reliant and too top heavy on services at the moment.
Rebalance to what?
Manufacturing of what?
Investment from where?
Skilled staff from where?
How long?
If we lose trade in services how quickly will jobs be lost here? You may not want to kill the sector but you will if you cut off access to its biggest market.
Maybe you missed my thread about the German banking boss a few weeks ago. He said the UK and the city of London will remain Europe's number one financial centre after Brexit. These are not the comments of someone with a vested interest in Leave, these are the comments of one of Germany's highest ranking and most influential banking bosses! Your shrill cries that Brexit will 'kill the sectar' are divorced from reality!
Yes I missed your thread about what the Chairman of the Bundesbank said, but perfectly aware that he said it.
You, like Trump, are arrogant to the point that you assume that everyone thinks and behaves the way that you do and believe that you are so great that you don't know when you are being told what you want to hear.
Not everyone tries to get their way with bullying and intimidation. Your other hero, Putin, uses misdirection and denial just as effectively.
What do you think the consequences of not having a European banking licence would be? Do you know what they are? "How does it make much difference. ? None of the banks seem too concerned about the topic. It simply take a bit of fine tuning so there is nothing to worry about. | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!!" The beat post on this topic so far .Short concise and to the point. An excellent post | |||
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"Just seen the tribute choir on Britain's Got Talent. All these men and women who fought and died in 2 World Wars must be spinning in their graves at the state of the UK today. Ted Heath, instead of being lauded latterly as 'Father of the House', should have been hung, drawn, and quartered as the biggest conman to walk the streets of Britain. The British people voted for a Common MARKET, not for what we have today. Thanks to David Cameron, the people have voted, and spoken. It's now up to Theresa May to deliver!! Actually, not quite. The British people by way of their elected MEPs have voted in favour of 98% of all the changes that have happened in the EU so far. Remember we have a representative democracy, not a direct one. -Matt That's from 1999 to 2015. Just checked with full fact: ...according to 'UK in a Changing Europe' by Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix. Research by Dr Hagemann and Professor Hix shows that between 2009 and 2015 the UK voted against the majority 12.3% of the time, compared to 2.6% of the time between 2004 and 2009. That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side So you are complaining we only got our own way 87.7% of the time?
What percentage would you be happy with within a democratic framework?
So you agree it's not 98% of the time then?"I haven't look at the stats and haven't claimed either figure. But how often do you think would be reasonable? Your post seems to suggest that 88% of the time is unseasonably low. | |||
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"Seems daft to us, no one knew what they were voting for, so hard to use the traitor word... Yes they did it was a vote to stay or leave not something in between So we don't want a trade deal with the EU? Would that be treacherous? It would be fine if it was about businesses trading openly, but it seems to have morphed into more than it started out as. It was a way of business trading and now it’s about movement of people. Think about that for a second... You are ok with the concept of a car made in Germany to be easily and freely able to be transported across European borders, but not a German citizen. So a manufactured item gets more rights than a human being? I just knew that someone was going to say something like that
It’s about commerce not people, how did we manage to go on holiday years ago then ? Or indeed work abroad! We applied for visas and unless you had a criminal record they were easy to get.
Not xenophobic or racist to want a bit more control over borders just common sense.
Commerce is the free movement of:
Goods
Services
Capitol
Labour
Do you disagree?
No, it's not.
Commerce is not restricted to those countries who trade only with the free movement of goods, services, capitol and labour.
Commerce is trade, usually on a large scale, and both internationally and domestically. It does not rely on any kind of free movement.
the EU is the only trade bloc in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. No where else in the world has this. So to say free movement is a condition of trade is ridiculous.
The EU is also the only trading block in the world with the free movement of services and capitol.
Half truths Centaur.
So you're basically admitting the EU is an exception rather than the rule when looking at trade globally.
Nothing like publicly shooting one's self in the foot Centaur eh lol
You've just admitted Services as part of international trade with the EU Is an exception rather than a rule when it comes to global trade, and seeing as our economy is basically Services ... how, really how can we come through Brexit better than we are now.... I'd really really love to know how you think we are meant to balance our GDP through global trade taking services out of the equation.
Our economy needs re balancing as its too heavily reliant on Services. Also trade deals can be done which include services, as we all know the EU tried to include services as part of its TTIP trade deal with the USA. For the EU to now say services can't be included in any trade deal is disingenuous as we all know the EU pushed for services in TTIP.
Margaret Thatcher rebalanced our economy from uncompetitive manufacturing and resource extraction to profitable services. That caused a generation of chaos.
You are proposing rebalancing from profitable resources to uncompetitive manufacturing also without any plan for how to make this transition.
Does that sound smart? Do you have a plan? Where does the money for training come from? How do you make financial advisors engineers or call centre workers coders? Where does the investment come from?
The services trade deal that you gave an example of didn't actual happen did it?
The EU no longer has to consider what benefits the UK economy do they? We aren't on the same team anymore. We flounced out.
Putting all of your eggs in one basket (services) as you and other remainers seem to want to do is not a good idea. It's never a good idea to put all of your eggs in one basket. In fact I'd say it's a really bad idea and leaves us vulnerable in ways which wouldn't happen if the economy was more balanced. Yet again you appear to be putting words in my mouth, no where did I say we should get rid of services completely! I said the economy needs rebalancing which means we should have a more healthy mix of manufacturing alongside services as the economy is too heavily reliant and too top heavy on services at the moment.
Rebalance to what?
Manufacturing of what?
Investment from where?
Skilled staff from where?
How long?
If we lose trade in services how quickly will jobs be lost here? You may not want to kill the sector but you will if you cut off access to its biggest market.
Maybe you missed my thread about the German banking boss a few weeks ago. He said the UK and the city of London will remain Europe's number one financial centre after Brexit. These are not the comments of someone with a vested interest in Leave, these are the comments of one of Germany's highest ranking and most influential banking bosses! Your shrill cries that Brexit will 'kill the sectar' are divorced from reality!
Yes I missed your thread about what the Chairman of the Bundesbank said, but perfectly aware that he said it.
You, like Trump, are arrogant to the point that you assume that everyone thinks and behaves the way that you do and believe that you are so great that you don't know when you are being told what you want to hear.
Not everyone tries to get their way with bullying and intimidation. Your other hero, Putin, uses misdirection and denial just as effectively.
What do you think the consequences of not having a European banking licence would be? Do you know what they are? How does it make much difference. ? None of the banks seem too concerned about the topic. It simply take a bit of fine tuning so there is nothing to worry about. "What is it? What us it needed for. Who decides if you are awarded it or not? What are the conditions? An airy assertion like yours is meaningless. What constitutes betrayal or treachery in the context of Brexit? Any opinion on the actual question in the thread? | |||
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