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"They broke into he's house. A frail old man's house with a screwdriver, threatening him. He should be awarded a medal or something for defending himself and he's home. Oh and for getting rid of the scum. If this happened in the US he would have been praised. Every Man home is he's own castle and should have the right to defend it." In the US they probably would have been shot | |||
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"Pity he didn’t kill both of the scum " That sounds a bit harsh. I wonder do you think we should still hang horse thieves? And where do you stand on transportation and life with hard labour for life for stealing food? | |||
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"Pity he didn’t kill both of the scum That sounds a bit harsh. I wonder do you think we should still hang horse thieves? And where do you stand on transportation and life with hard labour for life for stealing food?" Harsh? You were suggesting taking out Tory MPs not so long ago! | |||
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"Harsh? You were suggesting taking out Tory MPs not so long ago!" True (up to a point), but then when others pointed out how harsh I was being my reply was look at the 1000's or is it 1000000's they kill in the name of profit. Maybe it is a little hypocritical of me, but maybe it is really about scale to me. Where I can a measure of understanding for small(ish) criminal acts and none for imposing the ultimate vigilanti jungle justice on those acts. When I see wholesale criminality legalised in the name of mass profit for a few modern day robber barons then I think the only way of redressing the balance is the use vigilante violence and maybe even violent revolution. The fact is we have developed a system of laws to protect us from the need to resort to violence in defense of ourselves families and property. And the only time we should be considering vigilantism is when we find those laws are being subverted to protect the very people those laws should protect us from. I will understand if many disagree with me on this. After all, we have a general tendency to punch down not up. | |||
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"Pity he didn’t kill both of the scum That sounds a bit harsh. I wonder do you think we should still hang horse thieves? And where do you stand on transportation and life with hard labour for life for stealing food?" harsh the guy had two strangers in his house with a disabled wife to protect what do you suggest then ask them politely to leave say please he deserves a medal for what he did in my book | |||
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"harsh the guy had two strangers in his house with a disabled wife to protect what do you suggest then ask them politely to leave say please he deserves a medal for what he did in my book " I have no problem with him defending himself and wife. I have no problem with him killing while defending himself. It's the 'shame he did not kill both of them' I have a problem with. To me it is about when self defense and being in fear for one's life changes into vengeance. And please understand, in the past I have crossed the line from defending myself into being a highly disciplined but vengeful thug who was meeting out self defined 'justice'. I have evolved from that to a more thoughtful individual. Violence has its place in the world, but it is too readily used without thought by the powerless on the powerless and with malice of forethought by the powerful on the powerless. Just my thoughts and observations. | |||
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"Pity he didn’t kill both of the scum That sounds a bit harsh. I wonder do you think we should still hang horse thieves? And where do you stand on transportation and life with hard labour for life for stealing food?" I don’t think it’s harsh and not in the same league as horse thieves. They broke into an old mans home threatened him hurt him! His home is personal space. The only pity is that one got way | |||
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"The only pity is that one got way " We will have to agree to disagree there. | |||
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"Pity he didn’t kill both of the scum That sounds a bit harsh. I wonder do you think we should still hang horse thieves? And where do you stand on transportation and life with hard labour for life for stealing food? I don’t think it’s harsh and not in the same league as horse thieves. They broke into an old mans home threatened him hurt him! His home is personal space. The only pity is that one got way " my feelings aswell the low life that got away will prob go in to ruin some other poor buggers life | |||
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"The only pity is that one got way my feelings aswell the low life that got away will prob go in to ruin some other poor buggers life " You see this is where I have real problems, I hear what you are saying and cant help but remember that the sort of people who break into the homes of OAP's in towns and cities are not criminal masterminds, are more than likely not too smart and probably semiliterate with the most basic of educations from broken or dysfunctional homes that the state and society gave up on before they started school. And then I compare your attitude to them with your attitude to a government of highly educated millionaires that strips everything it can from not only these people but the disabled, the long term sick and working poor so that they can pass that wealth on to their already obnoxiously wealthy mates. And I think what is wrong with you? While you look at me and think exactly the same because I refuse to scapegoat those less fortunate than me for the sins of those much more fortunate than me. To borrow from and misquote Oscar Wilde, I think we here all stand in the same gutter just I look up to see who is pissing on me, while you... | |||
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"You say then you cimpare my attitude to them ant to the government can you pls tell me what my attitude is to the government then? " I merely point out that you seem more than willing to those less fortunate killed without mercy for invading a home, but less willing to support me when I say that maybe the way to change the direction of our political leaders is to string one or two of them up in parliament square. As Bob has already said today, kill one it's murder, kill a million and it's a statistic. Guess when the justification is profit, I find statistics more objectionable and deserving of the deliberate taking of life not in self defense, than breaking into a dwelling for the purposes of theft. | |||
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"String one or two of our leaders up in parliament square is pure fantasy tho it’s never going to happen there for never going to change anything and To be honest I’d want more than one or two strung up " Well on the 30 Jan 1649 we cut the head off one leader on a stage built outside the Banqueting House on Whitehall which is just up the road from Parliament Sq. As for you wanting more than one or two strung up, I am sure you are not alone in that, but while you keep silent then everyone else also keeps silent and that is how our leaders get away with doing what they do. Because they can dismiss the few like me and Bob as cranks while the likes of you remain silent. Which brings me back to how come your so willing to give voice to your wish to see harm done to those less powerful than you but keep silent when it comes to those more powerful than you? Sorry if this is sounding personal, but it is not. Many many many share your position, it is just that you have voiced it.. | |||
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"Personally if two men broke into my house and threatened me with weapons, at the first chance I'd get I'd look to put them down with any means and let's face facts, when your outnumbered you don't want him getting back up again in a hurry because he might just be a little pissed off. The law might not support me in that action but I think that's why we try us on a jury of our peers, because there more likely to understand my actions than some judge. I don't think killing people is good or look for it just like I'm sure this old guy didn't but then at that point it becomes a them or me situation " I think the old guy got desperate when one held him in the kitchen as the other went upstairs, the poor old guy would be worried sick about what could happen to his wife his actions were fully justified | |||
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"I think the old guy got desperate when one held him in the kitchen as the other went upstairs, the poor old guy would be worried sick about what could happen to his wife his actions were fully justified" No argument there, I expect the old guy (and his wife) are beside themself with grief and guilt. | |||
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"String one or two of our leaders up in parliament square is pure fantasy tho it’s never going to happen there for never going to change anything and To be honest I’d want more than one or two strung up Well on the 30 Jan 1649 we cut the head off one leader on a stage built outside the Banqueting House on Whitehall which is just up the road from Parliament Sq. As for you wanting more than one or two strung up, I am sure you are not alone in that, but while you keep silent then everyone else also keeps silent and that is how our leaders get away with doing what they do. Because they can dismiss the few like me and Bob as cranks while the likes of you remain silent. Which brings me back to how come your so willing to give voice to your wish to see harm done to those less powerful than you but keep silent when it comes to those more powerful than you? Sorry if this is sounding personal, but it is not. Many many many share your position, it is just that you have voiced it.. " you’ve lost me now when did I say I wish harm to those less powerful than me and when have I been silent about those more powerful than me I actually said it was a pity he did t kill both of them that’s not me wishing harm On those less powerful than methatsmewishing harm on two men who terrorized and old cpl in there Home I’m sure you see the difference | |||
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"Personally if two men broke into my house and threatened me with weapons, at the first chance I'd get I'd look to put them down with any means and let's face facts, when your outnumbered you don't want him getting back up again in a hurry because he might just be a little pissed off. The law might not support me in that action but I think that's why we try us on a jury of our peers, because there more likely to understand my actions than some judge. I don't think killing people is good or look for it just like I'm sure this old guy didn't but then at that point it becomes a them or me situation I think the old guy got desperate when one held him in the kitchen as the other went upstairs, the poor old guy would be worried sick about what could happen to his wife his actions were fully justified" . I'd imagine the horror of it plus being arrested for murder is enough to finish him or his wife off. I've got zero sympathy for the burglars | |||
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"Personally if two men broke into my house and threatened me with weapons, at the first chance I'd get I'd look to put them down with any means and let's face facts, when your outnumbered you don't want him getting back up again in a hurry because he might just be a little pissed off. The law might not support me in that action but I think that's why we try us on a jury of our peers, because there more likely to understand my actions than some judge. I don't think killing people is good or look for it just like I'm sure this old guy didn't but then at that point it becomes a them or me situation I think the old guy got desperate when one held him in the kitchen as the other went upstairs, the poor old guy would be worried sick about what could happen to his wife his actions were fully justified. I'd imagine the horror of it plus being arrested for murder is enough to finish him or his wife off. I've got zero sympathy for the burglars" | |||
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"Same old UK unfortunately ! Fortune favours the criminals. How many times do we have to go through this before it changes ? I remember Tony Martin the farmer who shot the guy on his land and here we are again years later . It wouldn't happen in the states there wouldn't even be an arrest of the homeowner. Shouldn't have been in HIS HOME . End of We're a joke ! " Sadly Tony Martin has never returned to his house since . The burglar even made a false claim for compensation but had to drip it when filmed walking without any difficulty. If a burglar ends up dead they deserve no sympathy . At least now there is one less burglar roaming the streets. | |||
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"Same old UK unfortunately ! Fortune favours the criminals. How many times do we have to go through this before it changes ? I remember Tony Martin the farmer who shot the guy on his land and here we are again years later . It wouldn't happen in the states there wouldn't even be an arrest of the homeowner. Shouldn't have been in HIS HOME . End of We're a joke ! Sadly Tony Martin has never returned to his house since . The burglar even made a false claim for compensation but had to drip it when filmed walking without any difficulty. If a burglar ends up dead they deserve no sympathy . At least now there is one less burglar roaming the streets. " | |||
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" I remember Tony Martin the farmer who shot the guy on his land and here we are again years later . It wouldn't happen in the states there wouldn't even be an arrest of the homeowner. Shouldn't have been in HIS HOME . End of We're a joke ! " Tony Martin told everyone who would listen that he intended to kill anyone who entered his home, he then turned his home into a mantrap and made it look like a derelict from the outside. Finally he set himself up in with a shotgun in a killing nest and waited for his victims to arrive, when he murdered one and attempted to murder the other. Murder being the premeditated killing of another human being who has the protection of the Crown. | |||
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"Murder seems to be a surprising charge to be holding him under. Manslaughter seems more appropriate. Fair enough. He will probably be left to live his life but there surely has to be an investigation. Does anyone think not? I don't wish anybody dead though. Very few people are criminals out of choice. Carrying any weapon is intended to scare and intimidate. There may not be any intention to actually cause harm, but harm may occur. In this case the burglar appears to have ended up on the wrong end of his own weapon. Some people don't seem to like the criminal justice system, laws or the judiciary. Most of this is in place to protect the little guy from government, corporations and the wealthy. However, if "common sense" and what "you know" is right is a better option then please explain with a little more logic." I am sure you will find he did not end up on the wrong end of his own weapon which was a screw driver . Seems no one here has questioned why it took the police so long to arrive from the time of initial call. . | |||
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"Harsh? You were suggesting taking out Tory MPs not so long ago! True (up to a point), but then when others pointed out how harsh I was being my reply was look at the 1000's or is it 1000000's they kill in the name of profit. Maybe it is a little hypocritical of me, but maybe it is really about scale to me. Where I can a measure of understanding for small(ish) criminal acts and none for imposing the ultimate vigilanti jungle justice on those acts. When I see wholesale criminality legalised in the name of mass profit for a few modern day robber barons then I think the only way of redressing the balance is the use vigilante violence and maybe even violent revolution. The fact is we have developed a system of laws to protect us from the need to resort to violence in defense of ourselves families and property. And the only time we should be considering vigilantism is when we find those laws are being subverted to protect the very people those laws should protect us from. I will understand if many disagree with me on this. After all, we have a general tendency to punch down not up." Is it just Tory MPs that kill 100000s then? Or are Labour MPs the same? | |||
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"Is it just Tory MPs that kill 100000s then? Or are Labour MPs the same?" Over the last 40 years its been the majority of politicians across the spectrum but I would remind you that the Tory policies of the last Conservative government before Thatcher were more left wing than anything that JC now proposes. | |||
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"Murder seems to be a surprising charge to be holding him under. Manslaughter seems more appropriate. Fair enough. He will probably be left to live his life but there surely has to be an investigation. Does anyone think not? I don't wish anybody dead though. Very few people are criminals out of choice. Carrying any weapon is intended to scare and intimidate. There may not be any intention to actually cause harm, but harm may occur. In this case the burglar appears to have ended up on the wrong end of his own weapon. Some people don't seem to like the criminal justice system, laws or the judiciary. Most of this is in place to protect the little guy from government, corporations and the wealthy. However, if "common sense" and what "you know" is right is a better option then please explain with a little more logic." I fail to see the relevance of the weapon being used to scare or intimidate ( as opposed to being used ). How would a householder be expected to know a burglars intentions ..? If you burglar houses you should expect that death is an occupational hazard. At least there is one less burglar roaming the streets now and we are spared the expense of keeping a criminal in prison . | |||
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"Murder seems to be a surprising charge to be holding him under. Manslaughter seems more appropriate. Fair enough. He will probably be left to live his life but there surely has to be an investigation. Does anyone think not? I don't wish anybody dead though. Very few people are criminals out of choice. Carrying any weapon is intended to scare and intimidate. There may not be any intention to actually cause harm, but harm may occur. In this case the burglar appears to have ended up on the wrong end of his own weapon. Some people don't seem to like the criminal justice system, laws or the judiciary. Most of this is in place to protect the little guy from government, corporations and the wealthy. However, if "common sense" and what "you know" is right is a better option then please explain with a little more logic. I fail to see the relevance of the weapon being used to scare or intimidate ( as opposed to being used ). How would a householder be expected to know a burglars intentions ..? If you burglar houses you should expect that death is an occupational hazard. At least there is one less burglar roaming the streets now and we are spared the expense of keeping a criminal in prison ." There is no relevance to intent? I stated that you should be able to foresee the consequences of carrying a weapon did I not? It's better that someone does than reforms and makes a positive contribution to the world? Money more important than life? | |||
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"Murder seems to be a surprising charge to be holding him under. Manslaughter seems more appropriate. Fair enough. He will probably be left to live his life but there surely has to be an investigation. Does anyone think not? I don't wish anybody dead though. Very few people are criminals out of choice. Carrying any weapon is intended to scare and intimidate. There may not be any intention to actually cause harm, but harm may occur. In this case the burglar appears to have ended up on the wrong end of his own weapon. Some people don't seem to like the criminal justice system, laws or the judiciary. Most of this is in place to protect the little guy from government, corporations and the wealthy. However, if "common sense" and what "you know" is right is a better option then please explain with a little more logic. I am sure you will find he did not end up on the wrong end of his own weapon which was a screw driver . Seems no one here has questioned why it took the police so long to arrive from the time of initial call. ." I read that there was a struggle where the screwdriver was turned on the burglar. Perhaps this was inaccurate. Why are you sure that this was not the case? Why does it matter? Is it better that he was stabbed with another weapon? I'm not questioning the response time as I have not seen any reports mentioning a delay although I am aware that police funding has been squeezed for years as have police numbers. Is there any reason not to investigate the matter? He has been released on police bail which implies that they are following procedure rather than deem this a fully blown criminal investigation. Should the police not follow procedure? | |||
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"Same old UK unfortunately ! Fortune favours the criminals. How many times do we have to go through this before it changes ? I remember Tony Martin the farmer who shot the guy on his land and here we are again years later . It wouldn't happen in the states there wouldn't even be an arrest of the homeowner. Shouldn't have been in HIS HOME . End of We're a joke ! " Is killing somebody a more serious a matter than robbing somebody? A man was alleged to have been threatened with a weapon and acted in self defence leading to a death. Does anyone know that this is what happened? Does anyone know that the screwdriver belonged to the burglar and he threatened the home owner? Should this be investigated to establish the facts or should you be able to kill anybody who enters your house? I have no issue with accidental death resulting from self defence. Neither does the law. How about letting the legal process do its job? Do you have a better model in mind? | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago" I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. " . Well that's met policy?. There's more police officers payed for today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you can argue all day long that Sadiq khan is a complete left wing bell end who blames cut backs for everything but the fact remains knife crime has skyrocketed under him despite more police officers. | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. . Well that's met policy?. There's more police officers payed for today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you can argue all day long that Sadiq khan is a complete left wing bell end who blames cut backs for everything but the fact remains knife crime has skyrocketed under him despite more police officers. " I didn't mention Sadiq Khan. I'm just wondering where you got the data. What I can see from Parliamentary research briefings front line Met strength: 2010 33,367 2017 30,871 As far as I can tell, knife crime has been rising since 2015 and Sadiq Khan was elected in May 2016. Any information to the contrary would be helpful to back up your point which now appears to be that Sadiq Khan is responsible for more violent crime in London because you don't like him. | |||
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"As fsr as I'm concerned, tbe burglar gave up hid/her right to protection of the law by invading his home. If proven as Reasonable defence of himself he should be released without charge, surely" I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. Everyone has a right to life - that is enshrined in the European Convention of Human Rights that was transposed into the Human Rights Act. Everyone also has a right to enjoy their property, under the same provisions. When someone is killed, the police have a duty to investigate. The test always is what is reasonable. If the occupant felt the threat was so severe the only reasonable course of action was to attack the intruder then one might consider that reasonable. If the intruder was already unconscious and the occupant proceeded to stab him, one might consider that unreasonable. The coalition government amended the law, so that only those occupants whose violent response is "grossly disproportionate" will face criminal justice. I do not know if the actions of the occupant were reasonable or not. That is what the police will be trying to determine. | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. . Well that's met policy?. There's more police officers payed for today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you can argue all day long that Sadiq khan is a complete left wing bell end who blames cut backs for everything but the fact remains knife crime has skyrocketed under him despite more police officers. I didn't mention Sadiq Khan. I'm just wondering where you got the data. What I can see from Parliamentary research briefings front line Met strength: 2010 33,367 2017 30,871 As far as I can tell, knife crime has been rising since 2015 and Sadiq Khan was elected in May 2016. Any information to the contrary would be helpful to back up your point which now appears to be that Sadiq Khan is responsible for more violent crime in London because you don't like him." . He's a complete bell end and always has been. Every single problem he's ever asked about starts with... Well Westminster has cut...  | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. . Well that's met policy?. There's more police officers payed for today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you can argue all day long that Sadiq khan is a complete left wing bell end who blames cut backs for everything but the fact remains knife crime has skyrocketed under him despite more police officers. I didn't mention Sadiq Khan. I'm just wondering where you got the data. What I can see from Parliamentary research briefings front line Met strength: 2010 33,367 2017 30,871 As far as I can tell, knife crime has been rising since 2015 and Sadiq Khan was elected in May 2016. Any information to the contrary would be helpful to back up your point which now appears to be that Sadiq Khan is responsible for more violent crime in London because you don't like him.. He's a complete bell end and always has been. Every single problem he's ever asked about starts with... Well Westminster has cut... "Though in fairness the central government has cut local authority budgets by an enormous amount and thus has affected services delivered. It's unreasonable to expect that local services can be delivered to a suitable standard with significantly less resources as well as not to affect communities. He's responsible for services in his area and thus making a very clear point. People also complain, with a misdirected emphasis upon local delivery being at fault, without emphasis upon the cuts imposed by Theresa May et al, as if they don't hold any element of responsibility whatsoever.  | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. . Well that's met policy?. There's more police officers payed for today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you can argue all day long that Sadiq khan is a complete left wing bell end who blames cut backs for everything but the fact remains knife crime has skyrocketed under him despite more police officers. I didn't mention Sadiq Khan. I'm just wondering where you got the data. What I can see from Parliamentary research briefings front line Met strength: 2010 33,367 2017 30,871 As far as I can tell, knife crime has been rising since 2015 and Sadiq Khan was elected in May 2016. Any information to the contrary would be helpful to back up your point which now appears to be that Sadiq Khan is responsible for more violent crime in London because you don't like him.. He's a complete bell end and always has been. Every single problem he's ever asked about starts with... Well Westminster has cut...
Though in fairness the central government has cut local authority budgets by an enormous amount and thus has affected services delivered. It's unreasonable to expect that local services can be delivered to a suitable standard with significantly less resources as well as not to affect communities. He's responsible for services in his area and thus making a very clear point. People also complain, with a misdirected emphasis upon local delivery being at fault, without emphasis upon the cuts imposed by Theresa May et al, as if they don't hold any element of responsibility whatsoever. ". I fully agree there's nothing wrong with talking about cuts from central government, but this isn't the time, people want to know what he's going to do to keep there children safe, he's in charge, he's got powers. | |||
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"Is it just Tory MPs that kill 100000s then? Or are Labour MPs the same? Over the last 40 years its been the majority of politicians across the spectrum but I would remind you that the Tory policies of the last Conservative government before Thatcher were more left wing than anything that JC now proposes." So do you think the "majority of politicians" should be "taken out" then? | |||
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"I fully agree there's nothing wrong with talking about cuts from central government, but this isn't the time, people want to know what he's going to do to keep there children safe, he's in charge, he's got powers." funny how it is never the time to talk about cuts when those cuts are the root cause of problems problems that everyone is complaining about. There seems to be a total disconnect in the majorities minds between cuts in services due to lack of funding and the the disfunction in communities that follows on from those cuts. | |||
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"As fsr as I'm concerned, tbe burglar gave up hid/her right to protection of the law by invading his home. If proven as Reasonable defence of himself he should be released without charge, surely I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. Everyone has a right to life - that is enshrined in the European Convention of Human Rights that was transposed into the Human Rights Act. Everyone also has a right to enjoy their property, under the same provisions. When someone is killed, the police have a duty to investigate. The test always is what is reasonable. If the occupant felt the threat was so severe the only reasonable course of action was to attack the intruder then one might consider that reasonable. If the intruder was already unconscious and the occupant proceeded to stab him, one might consider that unreasonable. The coalition government amended the law, so that only those occupants whose violent response is "grossly disproportionate" will face criminal justice. I do not know if the actions of the occupant were reasonable or not. That is what the police will be trying to determine. " If the police need an offender profile for the two burglars they need look no further. It has already been decided by an earlier poster that they were more than likely not too smart, probably semiliterate with the most basic of educations, from broken or dysfunctional homes that the state and society gave up on before they started school. | |||
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"I fully agree there's nothing wrong with talking about cuts from central government, but this isn't the time, people want to know what he's going to do to keep there children safe, he's in charge, he's got powers. funny how it is never the time to talk about cuts when those cuts are the root cause of problems problems that everyone is complaining about. There seems to be a total disconnect in the majorities minds between cuts in services due to lack of funding and the the disfunction in communities that follows on from those cuts." . Yes I once had my wage rate cut on a job and so I stabbed the guy to death.. Wait no I just put up with it for a bit then left and got another job. Honestly there's a big difference between kids being bored and causing petty crime because the community center got closed and kids shooting and stabbing each other to death out of boredom from central government cuts | |||
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"Yes I once had my wage rate cut on a job and so I stabbed the guy to death.. Wait no I just put up with it for a bit then left and got another job. Honestly there's a big difference between kids being bored and causing petty crime because the community center got closed and kids shooting and stabbing each other to death out of boredom from central government cuts" Are you really that obtuse? Central government funding of local government services has been cut by more than 50% in the last 8 years. As a result social Services budgets have been cut to the bone. The result less social workers in deprived areas, and a total shutdown of all non statutory services like youth clubs, youth services community, substance abuse and offender outreach services. The results of these cuts appear over time and result in an increase in antisocial behaviour in youth that leads on to low level vandalism and violence that then escalates and evolves into more serious violence and crime. And the fact is when the community centre closes and the kids youth club goes the kids get bored start hanging round in groups that develop into gangs that fight each other and the losers arm themselves and then look for payback. Suddenly you have an escalation of violence that ends up in stabbings and shooting of anyone that is not in your gang. We saw it in the 50's 60's and70's with the Teddy Boys, the Tartan Gangs, the Mods and Rockers, and the football hooligans. In the mid 60's we decided to address the problem and we drastically expanded local government social services, it took nearly 25 years to control the problem but now having returned to the post war austerity model of government it has taken just 8 years to undo nearly 55 years of progress. Of course it is not just social services and policing, it is the NHS, the roads, homelessness, FUCKING EVERYTHING is going to shit! And it is totally the result of central government policy! | |||
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"I agree with most of what you say but you don’t know if that would of had any affect in these scum bags who burgled that poor old cpl tho " What I do know is that the greater the wealth, earnings and opportunities inequality between the top and the bottom of the social spectrum the less stable and more violent a society tends to be. I also know that as violence increases and decreases so do other crimes. And before anyone says we have a less violent and criminal society today than at any time in our history I will point out that that is a measure of 'reported crime' and we live now in a society where police can choose what reportable offences to report and as a result many serious crimes although reported to the police never make it to the statistics and many, many more are just never reported. | |||
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"Yes I once had my wage rate cut on a job and so I stabbed the guy to death.. Wait no I just put up with it for a bit then left and got another job. Honestly there's a big difference between kids being bored and causing petty crime because the community center got closed and kids shooting and stabbing each other to death out of boredom from central government cuts Are you really that obtuse? Central government funding of local government services has been cut by more than 50% in the last 8 years. As a result social Services budgets have been cut to the bone. The result less social workers in deprived areas, and a total shutdown of all non statutory services like youth clubs, youth services community, substance abuse and offender outreach services. The results of these cuts appear over time and result in an increase in antisocial behaviour in youth that leads on to low level vandalism and violence that then escalates and evolves into more serious violence and crime. And the fact is when the community centre closes and the kids youth club goes the kids get bored start hanging round in groups that develop into gangs that fight each other and the losers arm themselves and then look for payback. Suddenly you have an escalation of violence that ends up in stabbings and shooting of anyone that is not in your gang. We saw it in the 50's 60's and70's with the Teddy Boys, the Tartan Gangs, the Mods and Rockers, and the football hooligans. In the mid 60's we decided to address the problem and we drastically expanded local government social services, it took nearly 25 years to control the problem but now having returned to the post war austerity model of government it has taken just 8 years to undo nearly 55 years of progress. Of course it is not just social services and policing, it is the NHS, the roads, homelessness, FUCKING EVERYTHING is going to shit! And it is totally the result of central government policy!" And of course everyone is to blame except you! | |||
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"Agree with all of the above but this is about a 78 yrild man arrested for killing a burglar l " Yes, I know, but things do not happen in vacuums. And this discussion has become a lot more than just about that. It has developed into a debate about the rights of some to kill others and who is or is not to blame for the position we find ourselves in. As an adjunct to my last couple of posts, do you know that austerity also leads to a growth in political extremism, autocratic government and mindsets and increased intollarism? How tolerant would you say those on here who have voiced the opinion that it is a shame the old guy did not kill both of the burglars? Considering how much of what I say about social issues you agree with, why do you think you are so willing to support an individual killing? Do you think that maybe there is more going on here than simply discussing the reason an old guy got arrested after he killed another human being? No need to answer, just something to ponder and maybe do a little follow up on. You may be intrigued by what you read. | |||
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"And of course everyone is to blame except you!" And what have I done wrong? Did I maybe touch a nerve with you there? Or are you have you now passed the denial stage and entered the anger stage of realisation that you have totally invested yourself on the wrong side? Just a thought... Nothing to get upset about... But maybe something to ponder on.  | |||
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"And of course everyone is to blame except you! And what have I done wrong? Did I maybe touch a nerve with you there? Or are you have you now passed the denial stage and entered the anger stage of realisation that you have totally invested yourself on the wrong side? Just a thought... Nothing to get upset about... But maybe something to ponder on. "Far from angry, I leave that to your little outbursts. As for investing myself on the wrong side, the wrong side of what? | |||
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"The last time I checked, burglary did not carry the death penalty." It would if they broke into my house  | |||
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"As fsr as I'm concerned, tbe burglar gave up hid/her right to protection of the law by invading his home. If proven as Reasonable defence of himself he should be released without charge, surely I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. Everyone has a right to life - that is enshrined in the European Convention of Human Rights that was transposed into the Human Rights Act. Everyone also has a right to enjoy their property, under the same provisions. When someone is killed, the police have a duty to investigate. The test always is what is reasonable. If the occupant felt the threat was so severe the only reasonable course of action was to attack the intruder then one might consider that reasonable. If the intruder was already unconscious and the occupant proceeded to stab him, one might consider that unreasonable. The coalition government amended the law, so that only those occupants whose violent response is "grossly disproportionate" will face criminal justice. I do not know if the actions of the occupant were reasonable or not. That is what the police will be trying to determine. If the police need an offender profile for the two burglars they need look no further. It has already been decided by an earlier poster that they were more than likely not too smart, probably semiliterate with the most basic of educations, from broken or dysfunctional homes that the state and society gave up on before they started school." It seems that the dead burglar was from a family of career criminals whose speciality was targeting pensioners. He, his father, uncle, and at least two of his cousins had all served time for similar offences. So don't give me the poor misunderstood shit. He was a scumbag from a family of scumbags who ultimately got what he deserved. | |||
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"Yes I once had my wage rate cut on a job and so I stabbed the guy to death.. Wait no I just put up with it for a bit then left and got another job. Honestly there's a big difference between kids being bored and causing petty crime because the community center got closed and kids shooting and stabbing each other to death out of boredom from central government cuts Are you really that obtuse? Central government funding of local government services has been cut by more than 50% in the last 8 years. As a result social Services budgets have been cut to the bone. The result less social workers in deprived areas, and a total shutdown of all non statutory services like youth clubs, youth services community, substance abuse and offender outreach services. The results of these cuts appear over time and result in an increase in antisocial behaviour in youth that leads on to low level vandalism and violence that then escalates and evolves into more serious violence and crime. And the fact is when the community centre closes and the kids youth club goes the kids get bored start hanging round in groups that develop into gangs that fight each other and the losers arm themselves and then look for payback. Suddenly you have an escalation of violence that ends up in stabbings and shooting of anyone that is not in your gang. We saw it in the 50's 60's and70's with the Teddy Boys, the Tartan Gangs, the Mods and Rockers, and the football hooligans. In the mid 60's we decided to address the problem and we drastically expanded local government social services, it took nearly 25 years to control the problem but now having returned to the post war austerity model of government it has taken just 8 years to undo nearly 55 years of progress. Of course it is not just social services and policing, it is the NHS, the roads, homelessness, FUCKING EVERYTHING is going to shit! And it is totally the result of central government policy!" When I was a kid going to youth clubs, scouts etc, it wasn't funded by central government .....it was paid for and run by the parents. | |||
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"Yes I once had my wage rate cut on a job and so I stabbed the guy to death.. Wait no I just put up with it for a bit then left and got another job. Honestly there's a big difference between kids being bored and causing petty crime because the community center got closed and kids shooting and stabbing each other to death out of boredom from central government cuts Are you really that obtuse? Central government funding of local government services has been cut by more than 50% in the last 8 years. As a result social Services budgets have been cut to the bone. The result less social workers in deprived areas, and a total shutdown of all non statutory services like youth clubs, youth services community, substance abuse and offender outreach services. The results of these cuts appear over time and result in an increase in antisocial behaviour in youth that leads on to low level vandalism and violence that then escalates and evolves into more serious violence and crime. And the fact is when the community centre closes and the kids youth club goes the kids get bored start hanging round in groups that develop into gangs that fight each other and the losers arm themselves and then look for payback. Suddenly you have an escalation of violence that ends up in stabbings and shooting of anyone that is not in your gang. We saw it in the 50's 60's and70's with the Teddy Boys, the Tartan Gangs, the Mods and Rockers, and the football hooligans. In the mid 60's we decided to address the problem and we drastically expanded local government social services, it took nearly 25 years to control the problem but now having returned to the post war austerity model of government it has taken just 8 years to undo nearly 55 years of progress. Of course it is not just social services and policing, it is the NHS, the roads, homelessness, FUCKING EVERYTHING is going to shit! And it is totally the result of central government policy! When I was a kid going to youth clubs, scouts etc, it wasn't funded by central government .....it was paid for and run by the parents." Good post.
It seems that some on here think that central government should pay for everything.  | |||
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"The last time I checked, burglary did not carry the death penalty. It would if they broke into my house "And if there was no evident threat to your life, you'd be looking at a charge of murder, too. | |||
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"The last time I checked, burglary did not carry the death penalty. It would if they broke into my house
And if there was no evident threat to your life, you'd be looking at a charge of murder, too.
". But there clearly was an evident threat of harm in this case. They broke in, they held them hostage with screwdrivers, they separated them, he had no idea what was happening to his wife. The police have had no option but to release this guy because there would be hell to pay by the public | |||
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"It's complicated and I'm sure the judge will make a good and fair decision. "It shouldn't have to go as far as that. If the scumbag hadn't broken into the old man's home he would still be alive. There is NO moral basis for subjecting the old man to any further disruption to his life. He was going about his normal life, and did nothing wrong. It's time this country took the view that if someone enters your home unlawfully, they do it at the risk of their life. Simple as. | |||
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"It's complicated and I'm sure the judge will make a good and fair decision.
It shouldn't have to go as far as that. If the scumbag hadn't broken into the old man's home he would still be alive.
There is NO moral basis for subjecting the old man to any further disruption to his life. He was going about his normal life, and did nothing wrong.
It's time this country took the view that if someone enters your home unlawfully, they do it at the risk of their life. Simple as."Hope to god a 78 yr old isn’t put in the dock and made to defend himself in court. He has already had to defend himself against a dirty little scumbag burglar. He should be given a pat on the back | |||
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"And common sense too." lol bloody new iPhone | |||
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"I also just had a look because there's a few blaming policing. There's more police officers in London today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago I've not seen that. The only statistics I've seen indicate that frontline police numbers have fallen. Nothing indicating a different trend for the Met. . Well that's met policy?. There's more police officers payed for today than 5 years ago or 10 years ago, you can argue all day long that Sadiq khan is a complete left wing bell end who blames cut backs for everything but the fact remains knife crime has skyrocketed under him despite more police officers. I didn't mention Sadiq Khan. I'm just wondering where you got the data. What I can see from Parliamentary research briefings front line Met strength: 2010 33,367 2017 30,871 As far as I can tell, knife crime has been rising since 2015 and Sadiq Khan was elected in May 2016. Any information to the contrary would be helpful to back up your point which now appears to be that Sadiq Khan is responsible for more violent crime in London because you don't like him.. He's a complete bell end and always has been. Every single problem he's ever asked about starts with... Well Westminster has cut... "...and Boris was? I have no particular interest in defending Khan, but it also seems remarkable that you seem to be suggesting that it is either all one man's fault or that there is a simple solution for this. Is that what you are saying? | |||
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"Nobody answered these points: Should the police investigate all violent deaths without bias? Is burglary punishable by death? Should the law act independently of public opinion? Did the process work?" yes no yes yes | |||
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"Nobody answered these points: Should the police investigate all violent deaths without bias? Is burglary punishable by death? Should the law act independently of public opinion? Did the process work? yes no yes yes " Sorry. Far too direct. Someone has to respond with anger but not answer any of the points. That's what's supposed to happen on here  | |||
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"He's been released and no further action will be taken." Great news and I was very happy to hear it. Burglars should realise they lose their rights when they illegally step foot in someone else's property with the intention to steal or cause harm to the property owner. The burglar got what he deserved in my view. One less criminal on the streets makes the UK a better place. The Pensioner who defended his home should be given an award for services to the community. | |||
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"He's been released and no further action will be taken. Great news and I was very happy to hear it. Burglars should realise they lose their rights when they illegally step foot in someone else's property with the intention to steal or cause harm to the property owner. The burglar got what he deserved in my view. One less criminal on the streets makes the UK a better place. The Pensioner who defended his home should be given an award for services to the community. " What does the law state? Should the law be ignored? Write to your MP and get them to lobby government to introduce the legislation. What is the opinion on the police and the judiciary? Does it matter or is yours the most experienced and knowledgeable? I mean "you" as a plural. Clearly I number of people on this thread feel the same way as you. How should your approach be implemented? What should it extend to? If someone crashes into your car and therefore threatens your life should you be free to beat them to death with a hammer? Should we institute the "stand your ground" law as in Florida such that you can follow an unarmed person because you believe them to be acting suspiciously and then kill them because you feel threatened when they challenge you? Think it through and explain the ramifications. | |||
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"He's been released and no further action will be taken. Great news and I was very happy to hear it. Burglars should realise they lose their rights when they illegally step foot in someone else's property with the intention to steal or cause harm to the property owner. The burglar got what he deserved in my view. One less criminal on the streets makes the UK a better place. The Pensioner who defended his home should be given an award for services to the community. What does the law state? Should the law be ignored? Write to your MP and get them to lobby government to introduce the legislation. What is the opinion on the police and the judiciary? Does it matter or is yours the most experienced and knowledgeable? I mean "you" as a plural. Clearly I number of people on this thread feel the same way as you. How should your approach be implemented? What should it extend to? If someone crashes into your car and therefore threatens your life should you be free to beat them to death with a hammer? Should we institute the "stand your ground" law as in Florida such that you can follow an unarmed person because you believe them to be acting suspiciously and then kill them because you feel threatened when they challenge you? Think it through and explain the ramifications." Typically ridiculous response from you. When someone crashes a car into yours it's called an accident, do you think the burglar 'accidentally' burgled someone's house? Lol. When you burgle someone's house with weapons as this guy did in this case it's premeditated, there is nothing accidental about it. The Florida comparison isn't worth comment as it's such a ridiculous comparison to what happened in this case. There was no suspicion in this case the burglar WAS INSIDE the pensioners home armed with a screwdriver! Clearly the law has sided with the pensioner and he's now been released without charge. If you have a problem with that then maybe it should be you writing to your MP and urging them to lobby the government. | |||
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"He's been released and no further action will be taken. Great news and I was very happy to hear it. Burglars should realise they lose their rights when they illegally step foot in someone else's property with the intention to steal or cause harm to the property owner. The burglar got what he deserved in my view. One less criminal on the streets makes the UK a better place. The Pensioner who defended his home should be given an award for services to the community. What does the law state? Should the law be ignored? Write to your MP and get them to lobby government to introduce the legislation. What is the opinion on the police and the judiciary? Does it matter or is yours the most experienced and knowledgeable? I mean "you" as a plural. Clearly I number of people on this thread feel the same way as you. How should your approach be implemented? What should it extend to? If someone crashes into your car and therefore threatens your life should you be free to beat them to death with a hammer? Should we institute the "stand your ground" law as in Florida such that you can follow an unarmed person because you believe them to be acting suspiciously and then kill them because you feel threatened when they challenge you? Think it through and explain the ramifications. Typically ridiculous response from you. When someone crashes a car into yours it's called an accident, do you think the burglar 'accidentally' burgled someone's house? Lol. When you burgle someone's house with weapons as this guy did in this case it's premeditated, there is nothing accidental about it. The Florida comparison isn't worth comment as it's such a ridiculous comparison to what happened in this case. There was no suspicion in this case the burglar WAS INSIDE the pensioners home armed with a screwdriver! Clearly the law has sided with the pensioner and he's now been released without charge. If you have a problem with that then maybe it should be you writing to your MP and urging them to lobby the government. "You don't even understand what I was asking do you? Everything is always so simple for you because you "know" that you are right. Did you read the thread to understand my position? Do you think that the law functions perfectly well? Your last comment indicates that it does. However, weirdly for you, you completely contradict your position by saying that no criminal should have any rights and killing them is OK. So. Is the law alright as it stands or should it be changed? If it should be changed, what should it be changed to such that it is coherent? I'm sure that you can come up with something far better than that made up of hundreds of years of experience made up of thousands of complex cases. Bless you for being so outraged and angry and absolutely sure of yourself though. | |||
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"I don't know if it has been covered previously. It may have been but there are a lot of threads. 1. The old man has still committed an offence of murder. 2. It is for a defence in law for him to bring up, not for us to presume he is innocent. 3. He should still have been arrested for his own protection and to gather evidence and the truth. 4. Should he have his defence then he should be released but until he has been interviewed and the whole thing investigated then make a decision. I'm not here to make it glum and I don't expect abuse on the back if it. The law is the law and understand it. C" | |||
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"The last time I checked, burglary did not carry the death penalty. It would if they broke into my house
And if there was no evident threat to your life, you'd be looking at a charge of murder, too.
.
But there clearly was an evident threat of harm in this case.
They broke in, they held them hostage with screwdrivers, they separated them, he had no idea what was happening to his wife.
The police have had no option but to release this guy because there would be hell to pay by the public"I doubt very much he was released without charge because the police were frightened of what the Daily Mail might say. I prefer to think they have gathered the evidence, done the interviews, collected facts - facts that none of us has seen - and reached a conclusion that the man acted reasonably to defend himself, his wife and his property. The case does not give anyone a licence to kill an intruder, only to defend themselves in a way that is reasonable in the circumstances. The circumstances are different in every case. | |||
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"Personally if two men broke into my house and threatened me with weapons, at the first chance I'd get I'd look to put them down with any means and let's face facts, when your outnumbered you don't want him getting back up again in a hurry because he might just be a little pissed off. The law might not support me in that action but I think that's why we try us on a jury of our peers, because there more likely to understand my actions than some judge. I don't think killing people is good or look for it just like I'm sure this old guy didn't but then at that point it becomes a them or me situation I think the old guy got desperate when one held him in the kitchen as the other went upstairs, the poor old guy would be worried sick about what could happen to his wife his actions were fully justified" totally agree with you. hollie | |||
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"So for those who fully support the burglar being killed and don't like the police arresting the homeowner; should the law be changed? 1. If an intruder enters your home you should have an absolute right to kill them 2. The police should not investigate what happened Perhaps the law exists in the form that it does for a reason. Does it fail to function? Would the system above be better?" . You can investigate a suspected crime without arresting somebody for it, you can even question them without arresting them. Arresting a 70 odd year old man who's just been through a trauma just adds more trauma to the situation, if they genuinely suspected foul play, I wouldn't imagine they drop the charges only a few days later. This is just the police being cautious against the loud liberal left wing shouting group who like to claim police brutality and corruption over anything | |||
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"You can investigate a suspected crime without arresting somebody for it, you can even question them without arresting them. Arresting a 70 odd year old man who's just been through a trauma just adds more trauma to the situation, if they genuinely suspected foul play, I wouldn't imagine they drop the charges only a few days later. This is just the police being cautious against the loud liberal left wing shouting group who like to claim police brutality and corruption over anything" Firstly, the idea that the police can leave a known murder suspect free is ridiculous regardless of the age of suspect or circumstances. Secondly and a lot more importantly that old guy had just killed another human being, and done it up close and very personal. his hands and clothes would have been covered with his victims blood, he will have watched the life drain out of the eyes of the man he killed and listened to his last gasps and his final cry for his mother (most men who die on battlefields call for their mothers and this death would have been very similar). That whole experience will have been getting replayed in slow motion again and again and again. The best place for him was in a police cell where he could be watched 24 hours a day and offered immediate trauma counselling. Or of course he could have been left on his own to return to a bed in a dark room and deal with the killer demons on his own just so people like you can say 'Great! A bit of common sense, the scumbag got what he deserved and the police did the right thing not arresting the old guy'. | |||
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"You can investigate a suspected crime without arresting somebody for it, you can even question them without arresting them. Arresting a 70 odd year old man who's just been through a trauma just adds more trauma to the situation, if they genuinely suspected foul play, I wouldn't imagine they drop the charges only a few days later. This is just the police being cautious against the loud liberal left wing shouting group who like to claim police brutality and corruption over anything Firstly, the idea that the police can leave a known murder suspect free is ridiculous regardless of the age of suspect or circumstances. Secondly and a lot more importantly that old guy had just killed another human being, and done it up close and very personal. his hands and clothes would have been covered with his victims blood, he will have watched the life drain out of the eyes of the man he killed and listened to his last gasps and his final cry for his mother (most men who die on battlefields call for their mothers and this death would have been very similar). That whole experience will have been getting replayed in slow motion again and again and again. The best place for him was in a police cell where he could be watched 24 hours a day and offered immediate trauma counselling. Or of course he could have been left on his own to return to a bed in a dark room and deal with the killer demons on his own just so people like you can say 'Great! A bit of common sense, the scumbag got what he deserved and the police did the right thing not arresting the old guy'. " you are aware he didn't die in the house | |||
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"Nobody answered these points: Should the police investigate all violent deaths without bias? Is burglary punishable by death? Should the law act independently of public opinion? Did the process work?" Yes Yes No Yes | |||
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"you are aware he didn't die in the house "Yep... I expect you think that when someone is stabbed in the chest or abdomen that its like shooting a stag properly, that it collapses and there is little blood. Stab wounds are messy, they are messy from the start blood goes everywhere. | |||
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"you are aware he didn't die in the house
Yep...
I expect you think that when someone is stabbed in the chest or abdomen that its like shooting a stag properly, that it collapses and there is little blood. Stab wounds are messy, they are messy from the start blood goes everywhere."So he wouldnt have seen the guys life slip away or heard his last gasps. | |||
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"When you kill someone you know you have killed them and even if you are not physically standing over them as they die you share every moment of their death." I feel more effection seeing an animal die, whether it be a great red stag, small Roe, or even a family vet putting your long loved best friend to sleep due to old age and illness. You are aware that when called to a road accident involving deer that the best way to put the deer down is by cutting throat, not a firearm at side of road. | |||
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"The only pity is that one got way my feelings aswell the low life that got away will prob go in to ruin some other poor buggers life You see this is where I have real problems, I hear what you are saying and cant help but remember that the sort of people who break into the homes of OAP's in towns and cities are not criminal masterminds, are more than likely not too smart and probably semiliterate with the most basic of educations from broken or dysfunctional homes that the state and society gave up on before they started school. And then I compare your attitude to them with your attitude to a government of highly educated millionaires that strips everything it can from not only these people but the disabled, the long term sick and working poor so that they can pass that wealth on to their already obnoxiously wealthy mates. And I think what is wrong with you? While you look at me and think exactly the same because I refuse to scapegoat those less fortunate than me for the sins of those much more fortunate than me. To borrow from and misquote Oscar Wilde, I think we here all stand in the same gutter just I look up to see who is pissing on me, while you..." You could argue that the "greedy politicians" have had an equally disfunctional but opposite upbringing to be the way they are. Where's does personal responsibility for one's actions come in? You can't always blame "the system that created them". | |||
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"The THIEF gets tributes; . Flowers and balloons for Henry Vincent, 37, had been tied to a fence opposite a home in Hither Green, south-east London, where he was killed last week. . However, overnight the majority of the items were taken down and left on the pavement. . Three women arrived and re-fastened 20 bouquets and balloons to the same fence on Tuesday afternoon. . lets hope all is again removed tonight." I don't agree with the idea that house breaking is somehow worthy of the death penalty. But I do believe the house owner had the right to protect himself and his property. All that being said, a life was lost and I don't see why you would be against friends and relatives paying tribute to that life? A thief he may have been, but to them he was clearly much more than that. | |||
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"The THIEF gets tributes; . Flowers and balloons for Henry Vincent, 37, had been tied to a fence opposite a home in Hither Green, south-east London, where he was killed last week. . However, overnight the majority of the items were taken down and left on the pavement. . Three women arrived and re-fastened 20 bouquets and balloons to the same fence on Tuesday afternoon. . lets hope all is again removed tonight. I don't agree with the idea that house breaking is somehow worthy of the death penalty. But I do believe the house owner had the right to protect himself and his property. All that being said, a life was lost and I don't see why you would be against friends and relatives paying tribute to that life? A thief he may have been, but to them he was clearly much more than that. " he was a life long thief and worse, also spent 10 years in prison then rather than go straight, try to show example to his family, he continues to reek havoc and continue house breakings, if they want to pay tribute, do it at his grave side or in a crematorium garden, keep them well away from the poor pensioners where the thief broke into, the thief has caused enough damage to there lives, the family should be forced to stay well away from this area. . If the family do wish to do "good" they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, the other scumbag that ran away. . do you not agree? | |||
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"The THIEF gets tributes; . Flowers and balloons for Henry Vincent, 37, had been tied to a fence opposite a home in Hither Green, south-east London, where he was killed last week. . However, overnight the majority of the items were taken down and left on the pavement. . Three women arrived and re-fastened 20 bouquets and balloons to the same fence on Tuesday afternoon. . lets hope all is again removed tonight. I don't agree with the idea that house breaking is somehow worthy of the death penalty. But I do believe the house owner had the right to protect himself and his property. All that being said, a life was lost and I don't see why you would be against friends and relatives paying tribute to that life? A thief he may have been, but to them he was clearly much more than that. he was a life long thief and worse, also spent 10 years in prison then rather than go straight, try to show example to his family, he continues to reek havoc and continue house breakings, if they want to pay tribute, do it at his grave side or in a crematorium garden, keep them well away from the poor pensioners where the thief broke into, the thief has caused enough damage to there lives, the family should be forced to stay well away from this area. . If the family do wish to do "good" they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, the other scumbag that ran away. . do you not agree?" I do not agree. As I said, he would have been more than a thief to his family. He has lost his life due to his criminal behaviour, what else do you want? It's the ultimate punishment. At least let his friends and family grieve for him how they need to, within reason. And laying flowers seems reasonable to me, it is common practice now. As for the pensioners you refer to, he is dead and won't be hurting them again. | |||
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"The THIEF gets tributes; . Flowers and balloons for Henry Vincent, 37, had been tied to a fence opposite a home in Hither Green, south-east London, where he was killed last week. . However, overnight the majority of the items were taken down and left on the pavement. . Three women arrived and re-fastened 20 bouquets and balloons to the same fence on Tuesday afternoon. . lets hope all is again removed tonight. I don't agree with the idea that house breaking is somehow worthy of the death penalty. But I do believe the house owner had the right to protect himself and his property. All that being said, a life was lost and I don't see why you would be against friends and relatives paying tribute to that life? A thief he may have been, but to them he was clearly much more than that. he was a life long thief and worse, also spent 10 years in prison then rather than go straight, try to show example to his family, he continues to reek havoc and continue house breakings, if they want to pay tribute, do it at his grave side or in a crematorium garden, keep them well away from the poor pensioners where the thief broke into, the thief has caused enough damage to there lives, the family should be forced to stay well away from this area. . If the family do wish to do "good" they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, the other scumbag that ran away. . do you not agree? I do not agree. As I said, he would have been more than a thief to his family. He has lost his life due to his criminal behaviour, what else do you want? It's the ultimate punishment. At least let his friends and family grieve for him how they need to, within reason. And laying flowers seems reasonable to me, it is common practice now. As for the pensioners you refer to, he is dead and won't be hurting them again. " get a fucking grip; you think its right for the pensioners to look out their home each morning and be harassed by family members of the Thief? . If the family members had any decency they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, or indeed if Billy Jeeves, 28 had any morals, he should hand himself in. . you need to listen to Jeremy Vine on iplayer, there was a full topic on subject. | |||
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"The THIEF gets tributes; . Flowers and balloons for Henry Vincent, 37, had been tied to a fence opposite a home in Hither Green, south-east London, where he was killed last week. . However, overnight the majority of the items were taken down and left on the pavement. . Three women arrived and re-fastened 20 bouquets and balloons to the same fence on Tuesday afternoon. . lets hope all is again removed tonight. I don't agree with the idea that house breaking is somehow worthy of the death penalty. But I do believe the house owner had the right to protect himself and his property. All that being said, a life was lost and I don't see why you would be against friends and relatives paying tribute to that life? A thief he may have been, but to them he was clearly much more than that. he was a life long thief and worse, also spent 10 years in prison then rather than go straight, try to show example to his family, he continues to reek havoc and continue house breakings, if they want to pay tribute, do it at his grave side or in a crematorium garden, keep them well away from the poor pensioners where the thief broke into, the thief has caused enough damage to there lives, the family should be forced to stay well away from this area. . If the family do wish to do "good" they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, the other scumbag that ran away. . do you not agree? I do not agree. As I said, he would have been more than a thief to his family. He has lost his life due to his criminal behaviour, what else do you want? It's the ultimate punishment. At least let his friends and family grieve for him how they need to, within reason. And laying flowers seems reasonable to me, it is common practice now. As for the pensioners you refer to, he is dead and won't be hurting them again. get a fucking grip; you think its right for the pensioners to look out their home each morning and be harassed by family members of the Thief? . If the family members had any decency they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, or indeed if Billy Jeeves, 28 had any morals, he should hand himself in. . you need to listen to Jeremy Vine on iplayer, there was a full topic on subject." I have a fucking grip thanks, I know you hate it when anyone disagrees with your infinite wisdom. Suck it up buttercup | |||
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"You could argue that the "greedy politicians" have had an equally disfunctional but opposite upbringing to be the way they are. Where's does personal responsibility for one's actions come in? You can't always blame "the system that created them". " I was lucky, my parents paid for me to receive an extremely expensive education from the 'Holy Ghost Fathers' in a school called Rockwell College (you may have heard of it), and from day one, there was one enduring message: We were the privileged ones because of what our parents sacrificed so we could attend that school and it was our duty to make the most of our education and for the rest of our lives to repay our parents and the world for our privilege by improving others lives whenever we had the opportunity. I look at the Tories and what is turned out by their privileged education system and I see a bankrupted system of morals and an ethos that is the complete antithesis of what I was taught. So I am afraid in this case I do blame the system, and the system is a public school system that produces 'The Eaton Wall Game'. (For those who do not know what that is please read up about it and who makes up the teams before replying to tell me how wrong I am.) | |||
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"so your in favour of the family keeping "hush" (If the family members had any decency they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, or indeed if Billy Jeeves, 28 had any morals, he should hand himself in)" I didn't really give an opinion on that. I gave my opinion on whether family and friends should be able to leave floral tributes in memory of a life lost, without them being removed. Don't really care about the other guy either way, he will be caught eventually. | |||
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"When you kill someone you know you have killed them and even if you are not physically standing over them as they die you share every moment of their death." Did Andrey Lugovoy feel this way in the days after he injected Alexander Litvinenko with Polonium? | |||
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"The THIEF gets tributes; . Flowers and balloons for Henry Vincent, 37, had been tied to a fence opposite a home in Hither Green, south-east London, where he was killed last week. . However, overnight the majority of the items were taken down and left on the pavement. . Three women arrived and re-fastened 20 bouquets and balloons to the same fence on Tuesday afternoon. . lets hope all is again removed tonight. I don't agree with the idea that house breaking is somehow worthy of the death penalty. But I do believe the house owner had the right to protect himself and his property. All that being said, a life was lost and I don't see why you would be against friends and relatives paying tribute to that life? A thief he may have been, but to them he was clearly much more than that. he was a life long thief and worse, also spent 10 years in prison then rather than go straight, try to show example to his family, he continues to reek havoc and continue house breakings, if they want to pay tribute, do it at his grave side or in a crematorium garden, keep them well away from the poor pensioners where the thief broke into, the thief has caused enough damage to there lives, the family should be forced to stay well away from this area. . If the family do wish to do "good" they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, the other scumbag that ran away. . do you not agree? I do not agree. As I said, he would have been more than a thief to his family. He has lost his life due to his criminal behaviour, what else do you want? It's the ultimate punishment. At least let his friends and family grieve for him how they need to, within reason. And laying flowers seems reasonable to me, it is common practice now. As for the pensioners you refer to, he is dead and won't be hurting them again. get a fucking grip; you think its right for the pensioners to look out their home each morning and be harassed by family members of the Thief? . If the family members had any decency they should give up the location of Billy Jeeves, 28, or indeed if Billy Jeeves, 28 had any morals, he should hand himself in. . you need to listen to Jeremy Vine on iplayer, there was a full topic on subject." well worth a listen | |||
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"Did Andrey Lugovoy feel this way in the days after he injected Alexander Litvinenko with Polonium?" I would expect so. Maybe not as starkly as a 78YO who has not been trained to kill, but killing leaves its scars, ask anyone who has been in combat and reached a place where they can talk about what war did to them or look at the mental health of killers. Killing someone by mistake is traumatic that trauma is increased incrementally when a killing is due to an act of violence, deliberate or not. | |||
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"Did Andrey Lugovoy feel this way in the days after he injected Alexander Litvinenko with Polonium? I would expect so. Maybe not as starkly as a 78YO who has not been trained to kill, but killing leaves its scars, ask anyone who has been in combat and reached a place where they can talk about what war did to them or look at the mental health of killers. Killing someone by mistake is traumatic that trauma is increased incrementally when a killing is due to an act of violence, deliberate or not. " not all; some have no emotion, zero feeling after, some have the ability to place it out of their mind after with no feelings of guilt or trauma there are many different people in this world. | |||
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"By all accounts the burglar was a constant pain in the ass to any normal hardworking person in the area as are his family and friends from what I've read.....gotta blame a system where this kind if fuckwit is allowed to continue causing distress to others and guess what even dead is continuing to do so!!!--loss oc life is a sad act but the law has to protect us hardworking people from the system blaming scum----scum breed scum and this families tree would be a very interesting read.....I hope this poor old couple come out ok in time-- "agree | |||
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"not all; some have no emotion, zero feeling after, some have the ability to place it out of their mind after with no feelings of guilt or trauma " Isn't there a name for people like that? Could it be psychopath? And didn't I mention metal illness in passing and so covered your point (OK, I said health, but surely you are not so obtuse as not to have made the link)? | |||
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"It appears the shrines & flowers are being ripped down no sooner than they are put up" And so they should! It’s not as if he died in an accident or just dropped dead on the spot. He broke into someone’s home and threatened an old man with a screwdriver and the old man in fear of his life and property fought back. Why should he then have to see his across from his home evertime he looks out he s window ? I think I would be too ashamed that one of my family had done such a thing to do such a thing; it then again we don’t know what kind of people they are. | |||
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"It appears the shrines & flowers are being ripped down no sooner than they are put up" It's not November yet but maybe some of the neighbours should organise a bonfire. | |||
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"At times like these I ask myself what would Jesus do.? "Weep...? | |||
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"At times like these I ask myself what would Jesus do.? ". what his father advises him | |||
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"At times like these I ask myself what would Jesus do.? "Nothing he’s dead  | |||
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"he rose from the dead, now has eternal life, you could too if you believe strong enough "Yes just like all of those poor missguided souls who thing they are going to rivers of hiney and all of those virgines
There is indeed one born every minuet | |||
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"I have to agree. The old guy dhould be given an award. O e less piece of shit for the judicial system to waste tax payers money. I hope he gets off, it will send a message that a burglar forfeits their rights doing that shit " Award ??? ffs | |||
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"Its shameful the family of the dead man can't mourn in the form of flowers at the site of his death.I think Jesus would say though shalt not punish the mother and family for the crimes of the son. "fuck them, no sympathy for the life long thief or his family he was stabbed at the home in defence but where did he die!!!!!! | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x " The proper place for the family of the burglar to lay flowers and mourn is on his grave site, NOT at the site where he committed the burglary! It's completely out of order, and the police should prevent the family making a shrine in the street outside the pensioners house, as it's causing public disorder and disturbance to the peace. The neighbours and the local community who live there don't want a shrine in their neighbourhood. The family of the burglar should be making a shrine in the cemetery. | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x " Well said .The desire to punish those in mourning is strong in some forum dwellers.Such is their way unfortunately.Its not enough for the burglar to be dead they feel they have the right to dictate to those grieving how they should mourn.Sad but true. | |||
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"I find this really difficult to decide on what I think is right in this situation. Initially my thoughts were it was wrong to lay the flowers there, but on reflection a family is in mourning, and they should be allowed to do so regardless of their background, and as to the argument of he didn't die there - no one argues the toss of lying flowers at the site of accident if the occupant(s) died in hospital. Would someone take the flowers down and stamp on them if it was a d*unk driver that died? The burglar was absolutely in the wrong and paid for it with his life, why keep tormenting the family and why is it so hard for some people to be nice, and allow a family to grieve in peace. Ginger " totally agree x x | |||
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"I find this really difficult to decide on what I think is right in this situation. Initially my thoughts were it was wrong to lay the flowers there, but on reflection a family is in mourning, and they should be allowed to do so regardless of their background, and as to the argument of he didn't die there - no one argues the toss of lying flowers at the site of accident if the occupant(s) died in hospital. Would someone take the flowers down and stamp on them if it was a d*unk driver that died? The burglar was absolutely in the wrong and paid for it with his life, why keep tormenting the family and why is it so hard for some people to be nice, and allow a family to grieve in peace. Ginger " Absolutely correct.Ive seen flower's every year at a spot a young kid who stole a car and killed himself and two others.Nobody stamped on his mother's flowers.He and the others died in hospital not at the scene but every anniversary his mother lays flowers at the spot he died and took the lives of two others. Some people are heartless and full of hate... | |||
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"I find this really difficult to decide on what I think is right in this situation. Initially my thoughts were it was wrong to lay the flowers there, but on reflection a family is in mourning, and they should be allowed to do so regardless of their background, and as to the argument of he didn't die there - no one argues the toss of lying flowers at the site of accident if the occupant(s) died in hospital. Would someone take the flowers down and stamp on them if it was a d*unk driver that died? The burglar was absolutely in the wrong and paid for it with his life, why keep tormenting the family and why is it so hard for some people to be nice, and allow a family to grieve in peace. Ginger Absolutely correct.Ive seen flower's every year at a spot a young kid who stole a car and killed himself and two others.Nobody stamped on his mother's flowers.He and the others died in hospital not at the scene but every anniversary his mother lays flowers at the spot he died and took the lives of two others. Some people are heartless and full of hate... "Me thinks that you are just stirring the pot | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x The proper place for the family of the burglar to lay flowers and mourn is on his grave site, NOT at the site where he committed the burglary! It's completely out of order, and the police should prevent the family making a shrine in the street outside the pensioners house, as it's causing public disorder and disturbance to the peace. The neighbours and the local community who live there don't want a shrine in their neighbourhood. The family of the burglar should be making a shrine in the cemetery. " Absolutely spot on | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x How many pensioners may have died an early death due to fear, worry, concern, anxiety due to previous break ins. This person was a long term criminal thief, he already served 10 years and when freed continued to break in and steal. . You do not get a 10 year sentence for a small crime . tell you what, message me your address, let me give you a visit." Regardless of what he has done his family still should be able to mourn him. That man had no rights what so ever stamping on them flowers. The guy has lost his life & it's not his families fault. By the way asking me to message you my address so you can pay me a visit that sounds like a threat & will be reported to admin | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x How many pensioners may have died an early death due to fear, worry, concern, anxiety due to previous break ins. This person was a long term criminal thief, he already served 10 years and when freed continued to break in and steal. . You do not get a 10 year sentence for a small crime . tell you what, message me your address, let me give you a visit." The more oap that pass less drain on the rest of us | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x How many pensioners may have died an early death due to fear, worry, concern, anxiety due to previous break ins. This person was a long term criminal thief, he already served 10 years and when freed continued to break in and steal. . You do not get a 10 year sentence for a small crime . tell you what, message me your address, let me give you a visit. Regardless of what he has done his family still should be able to mourn him. That man had no rights what so ever stamping on them flowers. The guy has lost his life & it's not his families fault. By the way asking me to message you my address so you can pay me a visit that sounds like a threat & will be reported to admin" The family of the burglar can mourn him......at the cemetary where he is buried or cremated. Its totally inappropriate to do what they are doing outside the pensioners house where this burglary took place. It could be viewed as an act of intimidation towards the victims of the burglary, and is a provocation which is causing unrest in the community and the neighbourhood where the burglary took place. | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x How many pensioners may have died an early death due to fear, worry, concern, anxiety due to previous break ins. This person was a long term criminal thief, he already served 10 years and when freed continued to break in and steal. . You do not get a 10 year sentence for a small crime . tell you what, message me your address, let me give you a visit. Regardless of what he has done his family still should be able to mourn him. That man had no rights what so ever stamping on them flowers. The guy has lost his life & it's not his families fault. By the way asking me to message you my address so you can pay me a visit that sounds like a threat & will be reported to admin" no threat, would just like to meet you sweetheart  | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x How many pensioners may have died an early death due to fear, worry, concern, anxiety due to previous break ins. This person was a long term criminal thief, he already served 10 years and when freed continued to break in and steal. . You do not get a 10 year sentence for a small crime . tell you what, message me your address, let me give you a visit. Regardless of what he has done his family still should be able to mourn him. That man had no rights what so ever stamping on them flowers. The guy has lost his life & it's not his families fault. By the way asking me to message you my address so you can pay me a visit that sounds like a threat & will be reported to admin no threat, would just like to meet you sweetheart "Your profile states straight & has no mention you want to meet t-girls. No can do i'm afraid | |||
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"Shocking that ppl are more upset over the burglars family than the poor old cpl to scared to go home over the intimidation wtf " Maybe it's an "honour amongst thieves" kind of thing? | |||
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"I find this really difficult to decide on what I think is right in this situation. Initially my thoughts were it was wrong to lay the flowers there, but on reflection a family is in mourning, and they should be allowed to do so regardless of their background, and as to the argument of he didn't die there - no one argues the toss of lying flowers at the site of accident if the occupant(s) died in hospital. Would someone take the flowers down and stamp on them if it was a d*unk driver that died? The burglar was absolutely in the wrong and paid for it with his life, why keep tormenting the family and why is it so hard for some people to be nice, and allow a family to grieve in peace. Ginger " This would be the same family who have made death threats to the oap and his wife, to the point they have been placed in protective custody, you really think they should be allowed to brazenly attend the home of an elderly couple they have threatened to kill?? Fuck them, and that piece of shit criminal scum can rot in hell. They just be banned from the street and arrested for intimidation. That couple will never be able to return home because of those scumbags. They want to grieve and lay flowers, go make a shrine on their campsite or wait for the funeral. They shouldn't be allowed near the house after the threats that couple have had to face. | |||
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"I would say he’s a decent bloke looking out for the poor old cpl wow you call him a prick " ah yeah ... sorry you're quite correct ... i meant to say an utter beardy prick | |||
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"who was the beardy prick in the news making a cunt of himself ranting about scumbags? " Just a gentleman expressing the view of most law abiding citizens. I assume you have just made your comment to provoke a reaction. I cannot see the need to use derogatory language . If you were attacked with screwdriver in the middle of the night, how would you react . Stealing from the elderly and vulnerable is one of the most despicable acts that anyone can commit . | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x " The man stamping on the flowers was speaking for the silent majority of people in the UK. It is despicable to steal and use violence against the elderly.. If the family wish to mourn they can do so at their own house , not that of someone else. The gentleman stamping on the flowers is a hero who took a risk of revenge by the travellers. His actions restore out faith in society ( as opposed to those who constantly make excuses for crime ) | |||
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"Some of the comment's on here are shocking. I'm not condoning what the burglar did & i sympathise with the oap. However he wasn't a terrorist , a murderer or a sex offender. Just because he was a burglar his family still have every right to mourn him. He's still somebodies son , brother , uncle , nephew & grand son. No parent should have to bury their child. What if it was a family member of your's who this happened to. Some people are so disrespectful. If i had put flowers up for a family member & someone stamped all over them , i wouldn't be happy at all. That man stamping on the flowers had no right what so ever x x The man stamping on the flowers was speaking for the silent majority of people in the UK. It is despicable to steal and use violence against the elderly.. If the family wish to mourn they can do so at their own house , not that of someone else. The gentleman stamping on the flowers is a hero who took a risk of revenge by the travellers. His actions restore out faith in society ( as opposed to those who constantly make excuses for crime ) " | |||
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"I find this really difficult to decide on what I think is right in this situation. Initially my thoughts were it was wrong to lay the flowers there, but on reflection a family is in mourning, and they should be allowed to do so regardless of their background, and as to the argument of he didn't die there - no one argues the toss of lying flowers at the site of accident if the occupant(s) died in hospital. Would someone take the flowers down and stamp on them if it was a d*unk driver that died? The burglar was absolutely in the wrong and paid for it with his life, why keep tormenting the family and why is it so hard for some people to be nice, and allow a family to grieve in peace. Ginger This would be the same family who have made death threats to the oap and his wife, to the point they have been placed in protective custody, you really think they should be allowed to brazenly attend the home of an elderly couple they have threatened to kill?? Fuck them, and that piece of shit criminal scum can rot in hell. They just be banned from the street and arrested for intimidation. That couple will never be able to return home because of those scumbags. They want to grieve and lay flowers, go make a shrine on their campsite or wait for the funeral. They shouldn't be allowed near the house after the threats that couple have had to face. " Well said . An excellent post . The police should have taken out an injunction preventing his family from returning to the area and in addition removed any flowers from the road . They were placed on the fence without permission and could be simply treated as rubbish. | |||
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"The last time I checked, burglary did not carry the death penalty. It would if they broke into my house
And if there was no evident threat to your life, you'd be looking at a charge of murder, too.
"If someone breaks into your house armed with a screw driver any sensible person would assume that there was a risk to their life unless they were very foolish. The burglar was there to steal and take advantage of an elderly couple . He was not someone who had accidently entered the wrong house when d*unk or confused . | |||
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"I find the reaction to a family in mourning quite repellent and i can see what depths of depravation some forum dwelling individuals can sink to .I'm shocked by the inhuman response from these animals. "They can mourn at home or at the service | |||
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" Just a gentleman expressing the view of most law abiding citizens. I assume you have just made your comment to provoke a reaction. I cannot see the need to use derogatory language . If you were attacked with screwdriver in the middle of the night, how would you react . Stealing from the elderly and vulnerable is one of the most despicable acts that anyone can commit ." can you post the link where it says the utter beardy prick ranting about scumbags was, as you say, attacked with a screwdriver | |||
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"I cannot see the need to use derogatory language." Nor me. Unfortunately it is a reoccurring theme in most of his posts. | |||
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"I cannot see the need to use derogatory language. Nor me. Unfortunately it is a reoccurring theme in most of his posts." awww fucking didums | |||
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"You could argue that the "greedy politicians" have had an equally disfunctional but opposite upbringing to be the way they are. Where's does personal responsibility for one's actions come in? You can't always blame "the system that created them". I was lucky, my parents paid for me to receive an extremely expensive education from the 'Holy Ghost Fathers' in a school called Rockwell College (you may have heard of it), and from day one, there was one enduring message: We were the privileged ones because of what our parents sacrificed so we could attend that school and it was our duty to make the most of our education and for the rest of our lives to repay our parents and the world for our privilege by improving others lives whenever we had the opportunity. I look at the Tories and what is turned out by their privileged education system and I see a bankrupted system of morals and an ethos that is the complete antithesis of what I was taught. So I am afraid in this case I do blame the system, and the system is a public school system that produces 'The Eaton Wall Game'. (For those who do not know what that is please read up about it and who makes up the teams before replying to tell me how wrong I am.)" Ok but you can't blame both systems but want different outcomes. You want to string up the product of one system and excuse the sins of the product of the other system. | |||
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"I find the reaction to a family in mourning quite repellent and i can see what depths of depravation some forum dwelling individuals can sink to .I'm shocked by the inhuman response from these animals. " | |||
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"I find the reaction to a family in mourning quite repellent and i can see what depths of depravation some forum dwelling individuals can sink to .I'm shocked by the inhuman response from these animals. "You are ignoring extenuating circumstances - your views are sanctimonious and too simple. In any other circumstances it would be disrespectful but not here. The family should also have decorum. | |||
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"I find the reaction to a family in mourning quite repellent and i can see what depths of depravation some forum dwelling individuals can sink to .I'm shocked by the inhuman response from these animals. "It's obviously a terrible time when we mourn and we don't follow logic etc - the rest of society can be sensitive to such distress. Those who have limited empathy for others are sad cases. | |||
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"I find this really difficult to decide on what I think is right in this situation. Initially my thoughts were it was wrong to lay the flowers there, but on reflection a family is in mourning, and they should be allowed to do so regardless of their background, and as to the argument of he didn't die there - no one argues the toss of lying flowers at the site of accident if the occupant(s) died in hospital. Would someone take the flowers down and stamp on them if it was a d*unk driver that died? The burglar was absolutely in the wrong and paid for it with his life, why keep tormenting the family and why is it so hard for some people to be nice, and allow a family to grieve in peace. Ginger This would be the same family who have made death threats to the oap and his wife, to the point they have been placed in protective custody, you really think they should be allowed to brazenly attend the home of an elderly couple they have threatened to kill?? Fuck them, and that piece of shit criminal scum can rot in hell. They just be banned from the street and arrested for intimidation. That couple will never be able to return home because of those scumbags. They want to grieve and lay flowers, go make a shrine on their campsite or wait for the funeral. They shouldn't be allowed near the house after the threats that couple have had to face. Well said . An excellent post . The police should have taken out an injunction preventing his family from returning to the area and in addition removed any flowers from the road . They were placed on the fence without permission and could be simply treated as rubbish. " Police did prevent the family of the burglar putting flowers and balloons there a few days ago....and about time too. These people are causing a disturbance of the peace and looking to provoke the local community who live there. They even threatened to burn a neighbours house down who objected to a shrine being put there. Any future attempts to leave flowers there should now result in arrests of these individuals. | |||
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"Murder seems to be a surprising charge to be holding him under. Manslaughter seems more appropriate. Fair enough. He will probably be left to live his life but there surely has to be an investigation. Does anyone think not? I don't wish anybody dead though. Very few people are criminals out of choice. Carrying any weapon is intended to scare and intimidate. There may not be any intention to actually cause harm, but harm may occur. In this case the burglar appears to have ended up on the wrong end of his own weapon. Some people don't seem to like the criminal justice system, laws or the judiciary. Most of this is in place to protect the little guy from government, corporations and the wealthy. However, if "common sense" and what "you know" is right is a better option then please explain with a little more logic. I am sure you will find he did not end up on the wrong end of his own weapon which was a screw driver . Seems no one here has questioned why it took the police so long to arrive from the time of initial call. ." Because they act on calls In order of prioroty I was told when it took them 4o mins to turn up when i was stabbed by a junkie robbing me in my taxi a few years ago. If a stabbing isn't a priority I don't know what is. The law in the UK is an absolute joke. | |||
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