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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! " There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend." So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments?" The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! " You really did believe that bus didn't you? Do you wank over a picture of it before bed? | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! You really did believe that bus didn't you? Do you wank over a picture of it before bed? " Do you wank off over Remain propaganda before you go to bed at night? Do you fantasise over a recession that never happened and other scaremongering bollocks that Remain said would happen if the country voted Leave? | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! " Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! " Omg you've got no sense of humour - it was a piss take and true to form here you are with the same old rhetoric. ... boring | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! You really did believe that bus didn't you? Do you wank over a picture of it before bed? Do you wank off over Remain propaganda before you go to bed at night? Do you fantasise over a recession that never happened and other scaremongering bollocks that Remain said would happen if the country voted Leave? " No, because what little remain propaganda there was wasn't as sexy as that big red bus with the lies painted on it, riding along with your man crushes Gove, Johnson and Farage. Oooh bet your hard now? I'd say the scaremongering has yet to be proved false actually. Seeing as we haven't left yet. Did you miss that. I know you're now going to bang on about the Bank of England forecast as it's basically your only argument. But that particular prediction was eased by the action the bank took itself immediately after the vote. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur." How to make a point correctly.  | |||
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"What really caught in my craw was the Maybot describing the referendum as the British people decisively voting to leave the EU when in fact the vote was anything but and in reality was the most marginal of victories for the leave campaign. And befor our resident brexiteers jump down my throat I would point out that 26% of the British population eligible to voted leave and therefore 74% did not and there is nothing decisive about a victory where 74% of the population does not actively support it! " Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave!  | |||
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" Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur."
oh dear centy....
i think if anyone can ever get "owned" so clinically in one post full of facts.... this is it!!!!
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"What really caught in my craw was the Maybot describing the referendum as the British people decisively voting to leave the EU when in fact the vote was anything but and in reality was the most marginal of victories for the leave campaign. And befor our resident brexiteers jump down my throat I would point out that 26% of the British population eligible to voted leave and therefore 74% did not and there is nothing decisive about a victory where 74% of the population does not actively support it! Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave! "Just goes to show what you can do with figures! To presume that 27.85% were not bothered is false. Whilst there will be some that weren't bothered but there were a significant number of people who were not allowed to vote. British citizen's who had their rights stripped in what was probably the most important vote in their lifetime. Abandoned by their country - shameful! | |||
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"What really caught in my craw was the Maybot describing the referendum as the British people decisively voting to leave the EU when in fact the vote was anything but and in reality was the most marginal of victories for the leave campaign. And befor our resident brexiteers jump down my throat I would point out that 26% of the British population eligible to voted leave and therefore 74% did not and there is nothing decisive about a victory where 74% of the population does not actively support it! Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave!
Just goes to show what you can do with figures!
To presume that 27.85% were not bothered is false. Whilst there will be some that weren't bothered but there were a significant number of people who were not allowed to vote. British citizen's who had their rights stripped in what was probably the most important vote in their lifetime. Abandoned by their country - shameful! "The numbers speak for themselves as a percentage or any other way you want to put them! The only votes that count are the ones that are cast, speculating which way none voters would favour is impossible!! After all Will was only 11% out with his calculation for the leave vote, best get his name down for next labour chancellor of the exchequer, seems like he has the right skills for the job!! | |||
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"What really caught in my craw was the Maybot describing the referendum as the British people decisively voting to leave the EU when in fact the vote was anything but and in reality was the most marginal of victories for the leave campaign. And befor our resident brexiteers jump down my throat I would point out that 26% of the British population eligible to voted leave and therefore 74% did not and there is nothing decisive about a victory where 74% of the population does not actively support it! Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave!
Just goes to show what you can do with figures!
To presume that 27.85% were not bothered is false. Whilst there will be some that weren't bothered but there were a significant number of people who were not allowed to vote. British citizen's who had their rights stripped in what was probably the most important vote in their lifetime. Abandoned by their country - shameful!
The numbers speak for themselves as a percentage or any other way you want to put them! The only votes that count are the ones that are cast, speculating which way none voters would favour is impossible!! After all Will was only 11% out with his calculation for the leave vote, best get his name down for next labour chancellor of the exchequer, seems like he has the right skills for the job!! "Will may I suggest putting a new calculator on your Christmas list! | |||
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"Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave! "Unfortunately, your comprehension of English and understanding of population leaves a lot to be desired. I did not say registered to vote because I know there are millions in the UK who have been dispossessed and disenfranchised by successive Tory governments since Thatcher introduced the poll tax and stumbled on wheeze. There are of course nearly 90,000 prisoners who are stripped of their franchise and god knows how many who have had their franchise stripped due to mental health orders. But what I do know and find very disturbing is that although the numbers are easy for the government to disclose the ONS makes a point of keeping the true numbers hidden. There is no way of getting an accurate number of those being disenfranchised. So as I do not really have the resources to do my own research I'll accept the research done by the LSE. Of course should you be able to show me how those who are not able to register to vote for whatever reason should not be counted as part of the adult population then I'll concede the point and accept your figures. | |||
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"Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave!
Unfortunately, your comprehension of English and understanding of population leaves a lot to be desired.
I did not say registered to vote because I know there are millions in the UK who have been dispossessed and disenfranchised by successive Tory governments since Thatcher introduced the poll tax and stumbled on wheeze. There are of course nearly 90,000 prisoners who are stripped of their franchise and god knows how many who have had their franchise stripped due to mental health orders.
But what I do know and find very disturbing is that although the numbers are easy for the government to disclose the ONS makes a point of keeping the true numbers hidden. There is no way of getting an accurate number of those being disenfranchised.
So as I do not really have the resources to do my own research I'll accept the research done by the LSE. Of course should you be able to show me how those who are not able to register to vote for whatever reason should not be counted as part of the adult population then I'll concede the point and accept your figures. "My comprehension of english is fine, I can tell when someone is talking out their backside!! Your a bad bad loser Will or correct me if I am wrong didn't you say you voted to leave, something to do with wanting to see the end of the conservative party!So your a winner after all! | |||
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"Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave!
Unfortunately, your comprehension of English and understanding of population leaves a lot to be desired.
I did not say registered to vote because I know there are millions in the UK who have been dispossessed and disenfranchised by successive Tory governments since Thatcher introduced the poll tax and stumbled on wheeze. There are of course nearly 90,000 prisoners who are stripped of their franchise and god knows how many who have had their franchise stripped due to mental health orders.
But what I do know and find very disturbing is that although the numbers are easy for the government to disclose the ONS makes a point of keeping the true numbers hidden. There is no way of getting an accurate number of those being disenfranchised.
So as I do not really have the resources to do my own research I'll accept the research done by the LSE. Of course should you be able to show me how those who are not able to register to vote for whatever reason should not be counted as part of the adult population then I'll concede the point and accept your figures. My comprehension of english is fine, I can tell when someone is talking out their backside!! Your a bad bad loser Will or correct me if I am wrong didn't you say you voted to leave, something to do with wanting to see the end of the conservative party!So your a winner after all! "Should have been you are a winner Will! Would be interested to know how many people think prisoners should be able to vote, personally I don't think they should. | |||
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"Unfortunately Will maths doesn't seem to be your strong point!! 46,501241 where eligible to vote 17,410742 voted leave 37.41% 16,141241 voted remain 34.71% 12,949258 didn't vote 27.85% We can only presume the people who didn't vote were not bothered one way or the other, so as a percentage more people voted to leave!
Unfortunately, your comprehension of English and understanding of population leaves a lot to be desired.
I did not say registered to vote because I know there are millions in the UK who have been dispossessed and disenfranchised by successive Tory governments since Thatcher introduced the poll tax and stumbled on wheeze. There are of course nearly 90,000 prisoners who are stripped of their franchise and god knows how many who have had their franchise stripped due to mental health orders.
But what I do know and find very disturbing is that although the numbers are easy for the government to disclose the ONS makes a point of keeping the true numbers hidden. There is no way of getting an accurate number of those being disenfranchised.
So as I do not really have the resources to do my own research I'll accept the research done by the LSE. Of course should you be able to show me how those who are not able to register to vote for whatever reason should not be counted as part of the adult population then I'll concede the point and accept your figures. My comprehension of english is fine, I can tell when someone is talking out their backside!! Your a bad bad loser Will or correct me if I am wrong didn't you say you voted to leave, something to do with wanting to see the end of the conservative party!So your a winner after all! Should have been you are a winner Will!
Would be interested to know how many people think prisoners should be able to vote, personally I don't think they should. "Will you can only vote if you register, so if you are eligible and want to vote you register, simple as that! Have you been round and asked all these disenfranchised people how they would vote!?Highly unlikely but you presume that you know! | |||
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"Would be interested to know how many people think prisoners should be able to vote, personally I don't think they should. "Agreed. Of course, but the punishments open to courts are having liberty removed, having liberty removed (but suspended), being given a curfew (which is partial removal of liberty), fined, being made do unpaid work or a slap on the wrist. Why would only one type of convict be disenfranchised? And returning to the original subject I find it telling that you are able to shrug off how some maybe as much as 10% of the population being disenfranchised. Maybe you would not be so blase if it were your right to vote that was being removed. | |||
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"Would be interested to know how many people think prisoners should be able to vote, personally I don't think they should.
Agreed.
Of course, but the punishments open to courts are having liberty removed, having liberty removed (but suspended), being given a curfew (which is partial removal of liberty), fined, being made do unpaid work or a slap on the wrist.
Why would only one type of convict be disenfranchised?
And returning to the original subject I find it telling that you are able to shrug off how some maybe as much as 10% of the population being disenfranchised. Maybe you would not be so blase if it were your right to vote that was being removed."Will if they wanted to vote they would register just as you and I have done, or are there other reasons why they don't want their whereabouts to be known! | |||
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"Will you can only vote if you register, so if you are eligible and want to vote you register, simple as that! Have you been round and asked all these disenfranchised people how they would vote!?Highly unlikely but you presume that you know! "True you can only vote if your registar. How does a homeless person, or one of the hidden homeless who is sofa surfing registar? You may like to take a look and work out just exactly how hard it is to jump through those hoops. | |||
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"Will you can only vote if you register, so if you are eligible and want to vote you register, simple as that! Have you been round and asked all these disenfranchised people how they would vote!?Highly unlikely but you presume that you know!
True you can only vote if your registar.
How does a homeless person, or one of the hidden homeless who is sofa surfing registar? You may like to take a look and work out just exactly how hard it is to jump through those hoops."I find it very hard to believe that 10% of a population of 65.6 million are in this situation!  | |||
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"Will you can only vote if you register, so if you are eligible and want to vote you register, simple as that! Have you been round and asked all these disenfranchised people how they would vote!?Highly unlikely but you presume that you know!
True you can only vote if your registar.
How does a homeless person, or one of the hidden homeless who is sofa surfing registar? You may like to take a look and work out just exactly how hard it is to jump through those hoops. I find it very hard to believe that 10% of a population of 65.6 million are in this situation! "Will you didn't say if you had voted for leave or not!? | |||
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"I find it very hard to believe that 10% of a population of 65.6 million are in this situation! "Unfortunately, I don't, in the same way as I don't find it hard to believe that many if not most are more than willing to turn a blind eye to anything that harms others provided they are not affected and will actively support anything that they think will benefit them regardless of how temporary that benefit is. When push comes to shove most humans are shallow and greedy. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! You really did believe that bus didn't you? Do you wank over a picture of it before bed? Do you wank off over Remain propaganda before you go to bed at night? Do you fantasise over a recession that never happened and other scaremongering bollocks that Remain said would happen if the country voted Leave? No, because what little remain propaganda there was wasn't as sexy as that big red bus with the lies painted on it, riding along with your man crushes Gove, Johnson and Farage. Oooh bet your hard now? I'd say the scaremongering has yet to be proved false actually. Seeing as we haven't left yet. Did you miss that. I know you're now going to bang on about the Bank of England forecast as it's basically your only argument. But that particular prediction was eased by the action the bank took itself immediately after the vote. " Treasury Report 'The IMMEDIATE Impact of a Vote to Leave The European Union". Suggest you read it sometime. | |||
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"I find it very hard to believe that 10% of a population of 65.6 million are in this situation!
Unfortunately, I don't, in the same way as I don't find it hard to believe that many if not most are more than willing to turn a blind eye to anything that harms others provided they are not affected and will actively support anything that they think will benefit them regardless of how temporary that benefit is.
When push comes to shove most humans are shallow and greedy. "Will if you did vote leave to hopefully see the downfall of the tories and suspecting that the country would be seriously damaged, was that not a selfish act!?Especially if you voted for something you did not believe in!! | |||
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"Will if you did vote leave to hopefully see the downfall of the tories and suspecting that the country would be seriously damaged, was that not a selfish act!?Especially if you voted for something you did not believe in!! "I did vote leave... The thing I believe in is the EU, I think that is where hope lies. But I do not believe that we (the UK) are good for the EU as we are at present. But as to your main question, were my motives selfish? I like to think not, but would not be so arrogant as to say I do not have doubts or question my motives. What really worries me is all the brexiteers who have absolutely no doubts, to be honest their belief in brexit reminds me of the religious fervour of any 'true believer'. | |||
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"Will if you did vote leave to hopefully see the downfall of the tories and suspecting that the country would be seriously damaged, was that not a selfish act!?Especially if you voted for something you did not believe in!!
I did vote leave...
The thing I believe in is the EU, I think that is where hope lies. But I do not believe that we (the UK) are good for the EU as we are at present.
But as to your main question, were my motives selfish? I like to think not, but would not be so arrogant as to say I do not have doubts or question my motives. What really worries me is all the brexiteers who have absolutely no doubts, to be honest their belief in brexit reminds me of the religious fervour of any 'true believer'."Will this is where you and I differ, I would never vote for something I didn't believe in! You got what you voted for, to leave the EU but here you are saying that it's all wrong and not enough people voted for it, nonsense really if you look from a rational point if view!! | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! You really did believe that bus didn't you? Do you wank over a picture of it before bed? Do you wank off over Remain propaganda before you go to bed at night? Do you fantasise over a recession that never happened and other scaremongering bollocks that Remain said would happen if the country voted Leave? No, because what little remain propaganda there was wasn't as sexy as that big red bus with the lies painted on it, riding along with your man crushes Gove, Johnson and Farage. Oooh bet your hard now? I'd say the scaremongering has yet to be proved false actually. Seeing as we haven't left yet. Did you miss that. I know you're now going to bang on about the Bank of England forecast as it's basically your only argument. But that particular prediction was eased by the action the bank took itself immediately after the vote. Treasury Report 'The IMMEDIATE Impact of a Vote to Leave The European Union". Suggest you read it sometime." Yes, so if you’ve read it you will know it states: “Nor has the impact of a sharp tightening of fiscal and monetary policy to restore credibility been modelled. In both scenarios monetary policy is held fixed. Fiscal policy is assumed to support the economy through the operation of the ‘automatic stabilisers’. The analysis does not make any assumption about what policy decisions might be taken to contain the resulting increase in borrowing” Which is exactly what Jodie said. -Matt | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly. "Only he hasn't made a point correctly! Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing. You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong. The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year! The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion. Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years. The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years. The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again! He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world. As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. | |||
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" Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur.
oh dear centy....
i think if anyone can ever get "owned" so clinically in one post full of facts.... this is it!!!!
"Explicitlyrics hasn't "owned" shit. As i just explained in my post above most of what he wrote is just crystal ball gazing and he completely failed to include the ONS figures about contributions to the EU from UK households which takes the overall figure back up again in the opposite direction (quoted on fullfact website). Suggest you read my post above..... | |||
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" Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur.
oh dear centy....
i think if anyone can ever get "owned" so clinically in one post full of facts.... this is it!!!!
Explicitlyrics hasn't "owned" shit. As i just explained in my post above most of what he wrote is just crystal ball gazing and he completely failed to include the ONS figures about contributions to the EU from UK households which takes the overall figure back up again in the opposite direction (quoted on fullfact website). Suggest you read my post above....."All guessing and prediction - until it happens and we know all the actual costs then your doing exactly what you accused the remain campaign of - making it all up! Time will tell and then the shit will surface - interesting can't wait! | |||
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"Will this is where you and I differ, I would never vote for something I didn't believe in! You got what you voted for, to leave the EU but here you are saying that it's all wrong and not enough people voted for it, nonsense really if you look from a rational point if view!!" but I did vote for what I believe in. It is just your understanding of what I believe in and mine are radically different. I believe that the EU is the most important and progressive political entity that there is today. I also believe that with the now totally obvious split in the UK between those pro and anti EU makes the UK a destructive influence within the EU and therefore the UK needs to leave the EU until we realise our only positive future is as a fully engaged of the EU rather than in but with 'special status'. Further to be honest I hope that the most extreme of the Tory Eurosceptics carry the day and force a 'no deal' exit, thus making the whole country face up to the reality of exactly what the Tories have become in the last 40 years. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. "Sounds like two politicians quibbling over their own perceived facts. Guess the real figure is somewhere in the middle. But your trade statement is wrong. We do most of our trade with the EU, so while it is only 15% of the world economy, it's the biggest individual bit we deal with. So we will be leaving that, putting up various trade restrictions with them, and at the same time losing the trade deals we had through them. Yes WTO blah blah. But there's still tariffs there that we don't have now and individual trade deals will take years to negotiate. And our economy has grown slightly better than expected, but it has dropped down the growth rankings since the vote, and a lot of the growth was countries taking advantage of the shit pound on our exports. Still, I suppose that in a year's time when it tanks again it will keep us afloat for a while. | |||
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"Will this is where you and I differ, I would never vote for something I didn't believe in! You got what you voted for, to leave the EU but here you are saying that it's all wrong and not enough people voted for it, nonsense really if you look from a rational point if view!!but I did vote for what I believe in. It is just your understanding of what I believe in and mine are radically different. I believe that the EU is the most important and progressive political entity that there is today. I also believe that with the now totally obvious split in the UK between those pro and anti EU makes the UK a destructive influence within the EU and therefore the UK needs to leave the EU until we realise our only positive future is as a fully engaged of the EU rather than in but with 'special status'. Further to be honest I hope that the most extreme of the Tory Eurosceptics carry the day and force a 'no deal' exit, thus making the whole country face up to the reality of exactly what the Tories have become in the last 40 years." So Will if you think the best thing is for the UK to leave the EU why are you still quibbling over percentages, it just does make any sense. Your saying it's going to be a disaster for the country on one hand and hoping it's the worst possible deal on the other! You must have a lot of hatred in you if as you suspect the country could be brought to it's knees! Will you are an enigma to me!! | |||
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"Will this is where you and I differ, I would never vote for something I didn't believe in! You got what you voted for, to leave the EU but here you are saying that it's all wrong and not enough people voted for it, nonsense really if you look from a rational point if view!!but I did vote for what I believe in. It is just your understanding of what I believe in and mine are radically different. I believe that the EU is the most important and progressive political entity that there is today. I also believe that with the now totally obvious split in the UK between those pro and anti EU makes the UK a destructive influence within the EU and therefore the UK needs to leave the EU until we realise our only positive future is as a fully engaged of the EU rather than in but with 'special status'. Further to be honest I hope that the most extreme of the Tory Eurosceptics carry the day and force a 'no deal' exit, thus making the whole country face up to the reality of exactly what the Tories have become in the last 40 years.So Will if you think the best thing is for the UK to leave the EU why are you still quibbling over percentages, it just does make any sense. Your saying it's going to be a disaster for the country on one hand and hoping it's the worst possible deal on the other! You must have a lot of hatred in you if as you suspect the country could be brought to it's knees! Will you are an enigma to me!! "Should be doesn't! | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! You really did believe that bus didn't you? Do you wank over a picture of it before bed? Do you wank off over Remain propaganda before you go to bed at night? Do you fantasise over a recession that never happened and other scaremongering bollocks that Remain said would happen if the country voted Leave? No, because what little remain propaganda there was wasn't as sexy as that big red bus with the lies painted on it, riding along with your man crushes Gove, Johnson and Farage. Oooh bet your hard now? I'd say the scaremongering has yet to be proved false actually. Seeing as we haven't left yet. Did you miss that. I know you're now going to bang on about the Bank of England forecast as it's basically your only argument. But that particular prediction was eased by the action the bank took itself immediately after the vote. Treasury Report 'The IMMEDIATE Impact of a Vote to Leave The European Union". Suggest you read it sometime. Yes, so if you’ve read it you will know it states: “Nor has the impact of a sharp tightening of fiscal and monetary policy to restore credibility been modelled. In both scenarios monetary policy is held fixed. Fiscal policy is assumed to support the economy through the operation of the ‘automatic stabilisers’. The analysis does not make any assumption about what policy decisions might be taken to contain the resulting increase in borrowing” Which is exactly what Jodie said. -Matt" So basically what you're saying is the treasury report was scaremongering bullocks then. Thank you. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. "An excellent post and thanks for taking the time to clarify. I never have any time for the merchants of doom and gloom. Taking a negative approach can become a self fulfilling prophecy. Most businesses are not too concerned about Brexit. A few tweaks to duties are hardly going to make much difference. I suspect than many of the posters who take such a negative approach may work in the public sector. You put a lot of effort into this post which is highly informative | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. "Ill give you a bit if credit this is a better instance of disinformation. You quote different figures for different things pre rebate, post rebate, ONS figures to keep the waters muddied. And of course youre side stepping the divorce bill by hiding behind the fact that media reported the Tory announcement of 37bn without acknowledging the fact that the Tory announcement was nonsense. They left 11 billion out of that announcement for PR purposes which is exactly what I said theyd do for months before it happened. As for the figure I used it was taken directly from fullfact. In first few lines it says: "In 2016 the UK government paid £13.1 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at about £8.6 billion". That £8.6bn is the exact figure I used in my post. (In another bit of disinformation you complain about my figure of 8.6bn throughout the post and then end up quoting it yourself as you try confuse the issue by quoting as many different figures as possible.) So £8.6bn is the fullfact figure, a publication we both cite so obviously agree is a quality source of information. The 1.4bn in private sector payments and 1bn in foreign aid on behalf of the UK are also on fullfact and are widely known and reported on. No guesswork or crystal ball gazing here, just widely known facts that anyone can corroborate with google searches. And Ill point out I took the higher cost instead of the Audit Offices lower one. The Norway numbers are also fact and can be checked by anyone, no guesswork or mystic meg needed here either. And again I took the better figure for your side of the argument because I can give your side the benefit of the difference and still prove you wrong. The cost of replacing the agencies is an estimate (as I very clearly stated becauss I have no need to hide my arguments or the basis for them) but no one from remain or leave has cited a figure of less than 500mn and again I took the amount that was better for your side of the argument. So now Im confused. Where is the crystal ball gazing or guesswork? If Id taken the figures that went against your side I could easily make the argument that being out of the EU will cost the UK more than staying in. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. An excellent post and thanks for taking the time to clarify.
I never have any time for the merchants of doom and gloom. Taking a negative approach can become a self fulfilling prophecy.
Most businesses are not too concerned about Brexit. A few tweaks to duties are hardly going to make much difference.
I suspect than many of the posters who take such a negative approach may work in the public sector.
You put a lot of effort into this post which is highly informative
"If most businesses arent bothered about Brexit, how come both the CBI and the Chambers of Commerce are? Do they not represent business? Frankly, you're talking twaddle. Businesses that only trade within the UK may not give a damn, but those of us who do lots of EU business think that this is an absolute catastrophe | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. An excellent post and thanks for taking the time to clarify.
I never have any time for the merchants of doom and gloom. Taking a negative approach can become a self fulfilling prophecy.
Most businesses are not too concerned about Brexit. A few tweaks to duties are hardly going to make much difference.
I suspect than many of the posters who take such a negative approach may work in the public sector.
You put a lot of effort into this post which is highly informative
If most businesses arent bothered about Brexit, how come both the CBI and the Chambers of Commerce are? Do they not represent business? Frankly, you're talking twaddle. Businesses that only trade within the UK may not give a damn, but those of us who do lots of EU business think that this is an absolute catastrophe"I wish I could read the future like you guys,nobody can tell what Brexit will bring. However if I’ve underestamated any of you financial experts I apologise,but I would appreciate any advice as to where I should be investing my few coppers. | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. An excellent post and thanks for taking the time to clarify.
I never have any time for the merchants of doom and gloom. Taking a negative approach can become a self fulfilling prophecy.
Most businesses are not too concerned about Brexit. A few tweaks to duties are hardly going to make much difference.
I suspect than many of the posters who take such a negative approach may work in the public sector.
You put a lot of effort into this post which is highly informative
If most businesses arent bothered about Brexit, how come both the CBI and the Chambers of Commerce are? Do they not represent business? Frankly, you're talking twaddle. Businesses that only trade within the UK may not give a damn, but those of us who do lots of EU business think that this is an absolute catastrophe"It is difficult to see why it should be a disaster . We are only trading on slightly different terms. The performance of the Stock Exchange speaks for itself .These are live real time figures of investor confidence . | |||
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"i do wish leaving politicians would stop going on about it when every report has said it will be a myth... case in point... TM today of here 4 nation whizz around saying the money "saved" could be spent on the nhs and education.... and then BoJo backed this up with inane rambling on twitter... which then forces people to go back to talk about promises made on sides of buses (well, 1 bus in particular) which i think most people look back and cringe and would rather forget it happened.... but if you keep saying stuff like this... it never goes away!!!!! There will not be any Brexit dividend - no one in their right mind really believes that now. By the time the UK has set up its own institutions to replace those lost in the EU and felt the loss of tax revenue from reduced immigration and increased expenditure from an ever ageing population the only thing that can be guaranteed is that tax rises are far more probable than any Brexit dividend. So the £40bn we are going to pay to leave - is that in a lump sum or monthly instalments? The £40 billion divorce bill is equal to around 4 years of annual EU membership fees! Which we would have had to go on paying in perpetuity had the country decided to remain. The country has made its choice, we are leaving and will be better off as a result. The savings made on EU membership fees can be spent on our own priorities (like the NHS) and the decisions where that money is spent will be made by British politicians in Westminster instead of European politicians in Brussels! Oh Centaur, have you ever considered the fact that if you have to misrepresent the facts to bolster your argument that you might be wrong? The net figure is £8.6 billion. But the UK also gets £1.4 billion back in private sector payments and the EU covers £1 billion in foreign aid payments. Leaving it at £6.2 billion. In 2014 it was even lower with the UKs own National Audit Office putting the figure at £5.7 billion. But lets take the higher figure of £6.2 billion. And lets put it into the actual divorce payment of £52 billion. (Remember when you crowed about the figure being £40bn even though I told you months in advance that the Tories would bury the real figure. And then they did exactly that by completely leaving out £11bn out of their published figures.) So the divorce actually works out at covering 8 years 3 months of EU membership BUT we're not including the money that the UK will end up paying to the EU for market access and we're also not including the 50+ agencies that the UK is going to have to create to replace EU agencies. Lets look at what Norway pays for the type of access they get: 0.16% of GDP as compared to the UKs current 0.25% or €115 per capita for Norway vs €79 for the UK. Thats right Norway actually pays more per capita! But again, lets be generous and take the GDP figure because that would be a saving for the UK. At the 0.16% rate that Norway pays it would be £3.14bn per year for the UK. So the UK is looking at a saving of £3.2 billion, but once we take off the costs for all those agencies, estimated at between £500m and £750m per year, (and we'll take the lower figure again to put the best spin on things) thats a saving of £2.7bn per year. At that figure it would take 19 years and 4 months for the savings of Brexit to pay off. And we havent even looked at the costs of any trade restrictions or import duties, loss of jobs and tax revenue that will probably occur. How to make a point correctly.
Only he hasn't made a point correctly!
Most of his post is pure guesswork and crystal ball gazing.
You only have to take a look at the Fullfact website to see that he's got his figures wrong.
The fullfact website on the UK's EU membership fee in 2016 states that the UK before the rebate is deducted would be liable to pay the EU £17 billion in EU membership fees for 1 year!
The rebate is £4 billion which leaves a sum of £13.1 billion which the UK paid to the EU in 2016. Fullfact says EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion which leaves the UK with an outstanding bill of £8.6 billion paid to the EU from the UK in membership fees. I did say the £40 billion divorce bill was "around" 4 years worth of annual EU membership fees, and i actually rounded the divorce bill figure up to £40 billion, when the real figure is lower at an official £37 billion divorce bill which The BBC and Sky news reported was £37 billion last week when the deal was reached on the transition period. Other mainstream media and press reports from The Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Express, The Sun, The Times, The Mirror, The Spectator, and the list goes on and on, etc, all give the official divorce bill figure of £37 billion.
Furthermore if we had voted Remain as Boris Johnson pointed out recently the UK's annual EU membership fee would have increased in the coming years.
The Fullfact website shows a graph that clearly illustrates how the UK contribution fee to the EU has steadily increased over the years.
The Fullfact page on this also highlights that the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Pink book on UK annual contributions to the EU comes out higher than the government figure of £17 billion and says the figure is £20 billion per year. The annual £20 billion ONS figure includes payments to EU institutions from UK households so while _xplicitlyrics was spinning furiously to try to bring the overall figure down he completely ignored the ONS figures which take the overall figure in the opposite direction back up again!
He also bangs on about the cost of trade restrictions and import duties, but the EU puts up external tariffs on the edge of its customs union which we can remove with the rest of the world once we leave the EU and the customs union, so rather than a trade restriction this will be freeing up our trade with the rest of the world and cut import duties with the rest of the world. The EU is only 15% of the world economy so we will be freeing up trade with the 85% rest of the world outside of the EU and lowering import duties with the rest of the world.
As for his claim that 'loss of jobs and tax revenue will probably occur' i call bullshit on that and has not been born out so far since the country voted Leave. Remain forecast jobs would be lost as a result of voting Leave but instead the UK economy has added an extra 250,000 extra new jobs into the UK economy, and despite remain claims of a recession happening within 12 months of a leave vote the UK economy has continued to grow, and investment has continued to pour in (London was named tech investment capital in 2017). Productivity is also increasing and the Chancellor of the Exchequer's recent budget statement saw him in a cheery mood at the state of the UK economy, Philip Hammond described his mood about the UK economy as "Tigger like rather than Eeyore" as he has higher than expected tax receipts. Sorry but the economic armaggedon, doom and gloom you remainers were hoping for just isn't going to materialise now or after Brexit. An excellent post and thanks for taking the time to clarify.
I never have any time for the merchants of doom and gloom. Taking a negative approach can become a self fulfilling prophecy.
Most businesses are not too concerned about Brexit. A few tweaks to duties are hardly going to make much difference.
I suspect than many of the posters who take such a negative approach may work in the public sector.
You put a lot of effort into this post which is highly informative
If most businesses arent bothered about Brexit, how come both the CBI and the Chambers of Commerce are? Do they not represent business? Frankly, you're talking twaddle. Businesses that only trade within the UK may not give a damn, but those of us who do lots of EU business think that this is an absolute catastrophe
I wish I could read the future like you guys,nobody can tell what Brexit will bring. However if I’ve underestamated any of you financial experts I apologise,but I would appreciate any advice as to where I should be investing my few coppers. "Loud hailers and pitchforks.  | |||
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" I wish I could read the future like you guys,nobody can tell what Brexit will bring. However if I’ve underestamated any of you financial experts I apologise,but I would appreciate any advice as to where I should be investing my few coppers. Loud hailers and pitchforks. "Companies that make riot gear? Companies that make big trucks with cages on the back? Long life food manufacturers? | |||
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"So Will if you think the best thing is for the UK to leave the EU why are you still quibbling over percentages, it just does make any sense. Your saying it's going to be a disaster for the country on one hand and hoping it's the worst possible deal on the other! You must have a lot of hatred in you if as you suspect the country could be brought to it's knees! Will you are an enigma to me!! "I am not quibbling over percentages. I am pointing out how a marginal victory (52% of votes cast to 48% of votes cast is a marginal victory) where the reality is that just over 1 in 4 of the population voted for leaving is not a DECISIVE VICTORY! And when our PM starts describing it as such in order to prop up her weak and ineffectual but extremely authoritarian government then we all need to start examining the facts as they really are rather than blindly accepting the the clearly false statements of those who are attempting to legitimise beyond all doubt a position that is questionable to say the least. | |||
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"If just over 1 in 4 voted to leave how many out of 4 voted remain then ?" Just a little less than voted to leave, that is why the victory was marginal. | |||
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"So Will if you think the best thing is for the UK to leave the EU why are you still quibbling over percentages, it just does make any sense. Your saying it's going to be a disaster for the country on one hand and hoping it's the worst possible deal on the other! You must have a lot of hatred in you if as you suspect the country could be brought to it's knees! Will you are an enigma to me!!
I am not quibbling over percentages. I am pointing out how a marginal victory (52% of votes cast to 48% of votes cast is a marginal victory) where the reality is that just over 1 in 4 of the population voted for leaving is not a DECISIVE VICTORY! And when our PM starts describing it as such in order to prop up her weak and ineffectual but extremely authoritarian government then we all need to start examining the facts as they really are rather than blindly accepting the the clearly false statements of those who are attempting to legitimise beyond all doubt a position that is questionable to say the least."Will only people who are eligible and registered can vote that is the system we have whether you like it or not! Going on the people who are registered to vote more voted to leave, less voted to remain and some didn't bother! There was more than enough publicity about the vote so no one who wanted to vote can say they didn't know it would happen, what more could have been done? You helped to get us out of the EU with your protest vote, something which I think you now regret as you probably thought remain would win hands down!Your protest vote back fired big time but that is something you will have to live with unfortunately! | |||
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" I wish I could read the future like you guys,nobody can tell what Brexit will bring. However if I’ve underestamated any of you financial experts I apologise,but I would appreciate any advice as to where I should be investing my few coppers. " If you were in a car driving straight towards a wall you'd probably claim it was impossible to tell would happen next. Maybe the wall was a mirage or made of cardboard. Maybe the car would fly. Who could possibly tell?? Lets see if you can answer a few questions instead of avoiding them (as most brexiters do). Have companies moved and publicised plans to move out of the UK and into the EU to maintain access to the single market? Will this reduce employment and decrease the tax base while also increasing social spending? Has the UKs growth slowed from the fastest in both the EU and G7 to the slowest? Do you believe that EU consumers will pay a premium for British products over domestic ones, for example will French people pay extra for British beef over French beef? Do you believe that the Tories will hold firm on not having free movement of people and the EU will hold firm on the 4 fundamental beliefs its founded on which includes free movement? Because if both sides do then there will be trade tarriffs and import quotas and products like British beef will increase in cost. Do you see British products being able to compete and beat suppliers in countries like South America despite paying first world wages and having to pay huge transport costs to send products to South America and other emerging economies who have a lower cost base, lower transport costs and already are in place with established supplier/customer relationships? | |||
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"So Will if you think the best thing is for the UK to leave the EU why are you still quibbling over percentages, it just does make any sense. Your saying it's going to be a disaster for the country on one hand and hoping it's the worst possible deal on the other! You must have a lot of hatred in you if as you suspect the country could be brought to it's knees! Will you are an enigma to me!!
I am not quibbling over percentages. I am pointing out how a marginal victory (52% of votes cast to 48% of votes cast is a marginal victory) where the reality is that just over 1 in 4 of the population voted for leaving is not a DECISIVE VICTORY! And when our PM starts describing it as such in order to prop up her weak and ineffectual but extremely authoritarian government then we all need to start examining the facts as they really are rather than blindly accepting the the clearly false statements of those who are attempting to legitimise beyond all doubt a position that is questionable to say the least.Will only people who are eligible and registered can vote that is the system we have whether you like it or not! Going on the people who are registered to vote more voted to leave, less voted to remain and some didn't bother! There was more than enough publicity about the vote so no one who wanted to vote can say they didn't know it would happen, what more could have been done? You helped to get us out of the EU with your protest vote, something which I think you now regret as you probably thought remain would win hands down!Your protest vote back fired big time but that is something you will have to live with unfortunately! "Will you didn't say if you have any regrets for voting leave!? | |||
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"Ok here is an opportunity for an enterprising person. On the 29/3/19 we will no longer be an EU member so all those vehicles with the EU GB symbol will no longer apply. Certainly if the vehicle is going abroad it won't be legal - so produce a "stick on" to cover the current symbol - cheaper and less hassle than New plates!" Explain, how do you mean legal ? Most insurance policies allow 90 days outside the country you’re insured in. | |||
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"Ok here is an opportunity for an enterprising person. On the 29/3/19 we will no longer be an EU member so all those vehicles with the EU GB symbol will no longer apply. Certainly if the vehicle is going abroad it won't be legal - so produce a "stick on" to cover the current symbol - cheaper and less hassle than New plates! Explain, how do you mean legal ? Most insurance policies allow 90 days outside the country you’re insured in. " You are legally obliged to display a country of origin on your vehicle. Whilst we have the GB on the EU symbol we are no longer in the EU - grey area nobody knows. Slovakia made all its drivers get the new symbols on their cars when they joined the EU. Finally, yes insurance companies do offer up to 90 days cover in a 1 year period. I suggested you read the small print: 1. You don't have the same cover as in the UK. 2. It's a legal requirement that all members of the EU have 3rd party cover. 3. You may have comprehensive cover in UK but only 3rd party cover outside the UK - unless you notify your insurance company. Based on 20 yrs knowledge working in the insurance industry. | |||
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"Little heard of this in the media. Over the last 12 months. ... Exports at a record level, up 12%. Trade defecit fallen by 30% Exports to non EU countries increasing - now 61% of all exports. Annual trade defecit now the smallest compared to GDP for 7 years. UK productivity up 0.7% in the last quarter; the biggest increase for nearly 20 years. Inward investment from China up 60%....and has fallen in the rest of the EU. " so every thing is rosey seeing as we are still in the EU atm then .... this was predicted | |||
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"Little heard of this in the media. Over the last 12 months. ... Exports at a record level, up 12%. Trade defecit fallen by 30% Exports to non EU countries increasing - now 61% of all exports. Annual trade defecit now the smallest compared to GDP for 7 years. UK productivity up 0.7% in the last quarter; the biggest increase for nearly 20 years. Inward investment from China up 60%....and has fallen in the rest of the EU. so every thing is rosey seeing as we are still in the EU atm then .... this was predicted " Who by? The predictions were that, "in the two years immediately following a vote to leave the EU", we would fall into a deep and profound recession There would be a minimum of 500,000 extra unemployed, and up to 800,000 more unemployed GDP would fall by up to 6% House prices would fall by 18% But please tell us where the good news above was predicted by the remain campaign. | |||
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"it was massively publicised that while we are in the EU things would be economically beneficial ... you must've been living in a cave or summut .... the figures you give show that things are rosey whilst we are in the EU and that was predicted" The forecasts I showed were from the treasury report of April 2016 "The IMMEDIATE impact of a vote to leave the EU". Not, the immediate impact after 2 years plus a transition period from triggering article 50". AMD before you say it, it was published before Cameron and Osborne next Article 50 would be triggered the very next day following a leave vote. | |||
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"it was massively publicised that while we are in the EU things would be economically beneficial ... you must've been living in a cave or summut .... the figures you give show that things are rosey whilst we are in the EU and that was predicted The forecasts I showed were from the treasury report of April 2016 "The IMMEDIATE impact of a vote to leave the EU". Not, the immediate impact after 2 years plus a transition period from triggering article 50". AMD before you say it, it was published before Cameron and Osborne next Article 50 would be triggered the very next day following a leave vote." so you agree then ... things are currently rosey because we aree still in the EU .... fucking glad that shitty mess has been cleared up then | |||
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"Will if you did vote leave to hopefully see the downfall of the tories and suspecting that the country would be seriously damaged, was that not a selfish act!?Especially if you voted for something you did not believe in!!
I did vote leave...
The thing I believe in is the EU, I think that is where hope lies. But I do not believe that we (the UK) are good for the EU as we are at present.
But as to your main question, were my motives selfish? I like to think not, but would not be so arrogant as to say I do not have doubts or question my motives. What really worries me is all the brexiteers who have absolutely no doubts, to be honest their belief in brexit reminds me of the religious fervour of any 'true believer'."Unbelievable!!! | |||
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"Unbelievable!!!" What is unbelievable? That a eurofile who thinks that the UK is harmful to the EU voted for us to leave? Or that I applied logic to our position and worked out that the longer it takes for those who believe in the empire and have a rose tinted view of our place in the world to be forced to face the reality the worse it would be for both us and the EU. Or that I did not vote based on emotions? | |||
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"Unbelievable!!! What is unbelievable? That a eurofile who thinks that the UK is harmful to the EU voted for us to leave? Or that I applied logic to our position and worked out that the longer it takes for those who believe in the empire and have a rose tinted view of our place in the world to be forced to face the reality the worse it would be for both us and the EU. Or that I did not vote based on emotions?" Is a eurofile something they keep documents in, in Brussels? Funny how the euro politicians would all like us to stay in, even now, and those in the UK who really support the European project all fought tooth and nail for remain. Because the EU is clearly weaker without the UK. You however know differently. | |||
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"Unbelievable!!! What is unbelievable? That a eurofile who thinks that the UK is harmful to the EU voted for us to leave? Or that I applied logic to our position and worked out that the longer it takes for those who believe in the empire and have a rose tinted view of our place in the world to be forced to face the reality the worse it would be for both us and the EU. Or that I did not vote based on emotions? Is a eurofile something they keep documents in, in Brussels? Funny how the euro politicians would all like us to stay in, even now, and those in the UK who really support the European project all fought tooth and nail for remain. Because the EU is clearly weaker without the UK. You however know differently. " Eurofiles are not always kept in Brussels; once a month they have a litte outing to Strasbourg. | |||
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"it was massively publicised that while we are in the EU things would be economically beneficial ... you must've been living in a cave or summut .... the figures you give show that things are rosey whilst we are in the EU and that was predicted The forecasts I showed were from the treasury report of April 2016 "The IMMEDIATE impact of a vote to leave the EU". Not, the immediate impact after 2 years plus a transition period from triggering article 50". AMD before you say it, it was published before Cameron and Osborne next Article 50 would be triggered the very next day following a leave vote. so you agree then ... things are currently rosey because we aree still in the EU .... fucking glad that shitty mess has been cleared up then" No, I don't agree. Try reading the treasures forecast. They said if we vote to leave it will go to ratshit immediately, irrespective of when we actually do leave. It hasn't. | |||
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"it was massively publicised that while we are in the EU things would be economically beneficial ... you must've been living in a cave or summut .... the figures you give show that things are rosey whilst we are in the EU and that was predicted The forecasts I showed were from the treasury report of April 2016 "The IMMEDIATE impact of a vote to leave the EU". Not, the immediate impact after 2 years plus a transition period from triggering article 50". AMD before you say it, it was published before Cameron and Osborne next Article 50 would be triggered the very next day following a leave vote. so you agree then ... things are currently rosey because we aree still in the EU .... fucking glad that shitty mess has been cleared up then No, I don't agree. Try reading the treasures forecast. They said if we vote to leave it will go to ratshit immediately, irrespective of when we actually do leave. It hasn't." Some leave voters really are a strange bunch. They seem to get so upset that our economy didn’t tank completely after the vote as forecasted. -Matt | |||
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"it was massively publicised that while we are in the EU things would be economically beneficial ... you must've been living in a cave or summut .... the figures you give show that things are rosey whilst we are in the EU and that was predicted The forecasts I showed were from the treasury report of April 2016 "The IMMEDIATE impact of a vote to leave the EU". Not, the immediate impact after 2 years plus a transition period from triggering article 50". AMD before you say it, it was published before Cameron and Osborne next Article 50 would be triggered the very next day following a leave vote. so you agree then ... things are currently rosey because we aree still in the EU .... fucking glad that shitty mess has been cleared up then No, I don't agree. Try reading the treasures forecast. They said if we vote to leave it will go to ratshit immediately, irrespective of when we actually do leave. It hasn't. Some leave voters really are a strange bunch. They seem to get so upset that our economy didn’t tank completely after the vote as forecasted. -Matt" Actually, more than happy that the economy is going well; what upsets me is remainers in denial about it. | |||
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"just to re-iterate in order to make it absolutely clear for those who are having trouble understanding the basics .... we haven't left the EU, so as was comprehensively and clearly predicted, the economy is doing very well as part of the EU " How can it be relevant that we have not left yet ? Investors have still continued to invest in the UK and only last week Peugeot announced a substantial investment in their plant. None of the predictions of the merchants of doom and gloom have actually materialised. | |||
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"just to re-iterate in order to make it absolutely clear for those who are having trouble understanding the basics The predictions by the treasury, on the side of the remain campaign, were that, "in the two years immediately following a vote to leave the EU", although we would not have left the EU we would fall into a deep and profound recession There would be a minimum of 500,000 extra unemployed, and up to 800,000 more unemployed GDP would fall by up to 6% House prices would fall by 18% This was not 'in the two years immediately following us leaving the EU'. But hey ho, I'm sure the predictions stating otherwise, and what has happened over the last year as stated in my previous post, by the remain campaign will be fully sourced." . Your measure of victory appears to be that even though the U.K. has gone from the fastest growing EU country to the slowest - it is irrelevant because your enemy said that it would be even worse than this. Therefore you claim victory.... A bit like someone with meningitis who faced amputation of both arms and legs, only to find out it would be just the hands being chopped... What a fucking great result. | |||
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"just to re-iterate in order to make it absolutely clear for those who are having trouble understanding the basics The predictions by the treasury, on the side of the remain campaign, were that, "in the two years immediately following a vote to leave the EU", although we would not have left the EU we would fall into a deep and profound recession There would be a minimum of 500,000 extra unemployed, and up to 800,000 more unemployed GDP would fall by up to 6% House prices would fall by 18% This was not 'in the two years immediately following us leaving the EU'. But hey ho, I'm sure the predictions stating otherwise, and what has happened over the last year as stated in my previous post, by the remain campaign will be fully sourced.. Your measure of victory appears to be that even though the U.K. has gone from the fastest growing EU country to the slowest - it is irrelevant because your enemy said that it would be even worse than this. Therefore you claim victory.... A bit like someone with meningitis who faced amputation of both arms and legs, only to find out it would be just the hands being chopped... What a fucking great result. " Measuring growth rates would of course depend on your start point. It would be very easy for a country with a poor historic growth rate to grow and much more difficult for a country which is already performing strongly to do so. I do not see many people complaining about the performance of the UK economy . All the key performance indicators look good . If anyone really wants to do a comparison maybe compare job prospects in Spain , France or Greece with the UK. | |||
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"there's one or two folks for whatever reason are unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that we haven't left the EU .... the prediction was that while we are in the EU the economy will be strong .... so the economy is strong and it is because we are in the EU .... as was predicted .... it's not rocket science .... it's not even difficult for pre-school kids .... just wise up and deal with the fucking facts" Please provide your remain campaign source for this prediction, the one that said after we voted to leave the EU productivity would increase, GDP would go up, the deficit would come down, etc. You keep saying it was well publicised, so come on then....source. | |||
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"there's one or two folks for whatever reason are unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that we haven't left the EU .... the prediction was that while we are in the EU the economy will be strong .... so the economy is strong and it is because we are in the EU .... as was predicted .... it's not rocket science .... it's not even difficult for pre-school kids .... just wise up and deal with the fucking facts Please provide your remain campaign source for this prediction, the one that said after we voted to leave the EU productivity would increase, GDP would go up, the deficit would come down, etc. You keep saying it was well publicised, so come on then....source." i'm not here to assuage your demands about the fantastical claims that you've made up to suit your agenda ... the fact is that we haven't left the EU and as predicted, the economy will do well while we are in the EU .... deal with it | |||
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"there's one or two folks for whatever reason are unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that we haven't left the EU .... the prediction was that while we are in the EU the economy will be strong .... so the economy is strong and it is because we are in the EU .... as was predicted .... it's not rocket science .... it's not even difficult for pre-school kids .... just wise up and deal with the fucking facts Please provide your remain campaign source for this prediction, the one that said after we voted to leave the EU productivity would increase, GDP would go up, the deficit would come down, etc. You keep saying it was well publicised, so come on then....source. i'm not here to assuage your demands about the fantastical claims that you've made up to suit your agenda ... the fact is that we haven't left the EU and as predicted, the economy will do well while we are in the EU .... deal with it" I can't see where JandS made anything up in what they posted. They just posted the facts, which were the Treasury and the remain campaign predicted a deep and IMMEDIATE recession (within 2 years of a vote to leave). If you believed that bollocks then you were hoodwinked by project fear and it appears you swallowed all of Remains bullshit. The recession has not materialised and the UK economy continues to grow and is forecast to continue growing for the foreseeable future. | |||
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"there's one or two folks for whatever reason are unable to grasp the irrefutable fact that we haven't left the EU .... the prediction was that while we are in the EU the economy will be strong .... so the economy is strong and it is because we are in the EU .... as was predicted .... it's not rocket science .... it's not even difficult for pre-school kids .... just wise up and deal with the fucking facts Please provide your remain campaign source for this prediction, the one that said after we voted to leave the EU productivity would increase, GDP would go up, the deficit would come down, etc. You keep saying it was well publicised, so come on then....source. i'm not here to assuage your demands about the fantastical claims that you've made up to suit your agenda ... the fact is that we haven't left the EU and as predicted, the economy will do well while we are in the EU .... deal with it I can't see where JandS made anything up in what they posted. They just posted the facts, which were the Treasury and the remain campaign predicted a deep and IMMEDIATE recession (within 2 years of a vote to leave). If you believed that bollocks then you were hoodwinked by project fear and it appears you swallowed all of Remains bullshit. The recession has not materialised and the UK economy continues to grow and is forecast to continue growing for the foreseeable future. " Quoting facts can be dangerous for the following reasons: 1. Nobody had ever left the EU - so nobody knew what the effects would be. Guestimates were given by remain side as were given by leave. Leave guestimates have yet to be proved - we haven't left yet! 2. Fact the UK was the best economy in the EU - it's level with Greece. 3. UK was the top economy of the G7 - it's 7th now. 4. The UK was the 5th largest economy it's 6th now. Spin as much as you like all we have had is a fall in sterlings value we won't know the true situation until we leave. Time will tell. | |||
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"Little heard of this in the media. Over the last 12 months. ... Exports at a record level, up 12%. Trade defecit fallen by 30% Exports to non EU countries increasing - now 61% of all exports. Annual trade defecit now the smallest compared to GDP for 7 years. UK productivity up 0.7% in the last quarter; the biggest increase for nearly 20 years. Inward investment from China up 60%....and has fallen in the rest of the EU. " This isnt big news, we know the weakened pound is boosting exports. Its been mentioned here and in the media for over a year since the pound started tumbling. Yes there are benefits to a weaker pound: namely that its cheaper for other countries to buy your products and services. And the flip side of that benefit is that it becomes more expensive for all imports too driving up living costs and inflation. Its impressive if you can increase exports without devaluing your currency. Otherwise this is a case of a company increasing their costs, lowering their prices and thus managing to increase sales. | |||
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"and every time this is clearly pointed out they never come back and answer to this glaring fact." Case in point  | |||
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