FabSwingers.com forum: Will Police Scotland Uphold the Law?

By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Will Police Scotland arrest former Catalan education secretary Clara Ponsati on the EAW that has been issued by Spain, or do you think that the Scottish government will try to interfere?

Ponsati works at the University of St Andrews. Seeing as she is wanted on charges of sedition and rebellion, yet is wanted in Scotland where the Scottish government also want to succeed from the union, it puts them in a tough spot.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Na, once he learns of Kinky's prowess as a representative it'll be all ok..

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Will Police Scotland arrest former Catalan education secretary Clara Ponsati on the EAW that has been issued by Spain, or do you think that the Scottish government will try to interfere?

as far as i am aware spain quietly recalled all the EAW's that were outstanding.... it was only pidgemont's that was reinstated last week because he has been more much brazen about his travel activities, which is why he was caught on the danish/german border......

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Will Police Scotland arrest former Catalan education secretary Clara Ponsati on the EAW that has been issued by Spain, or do you think that the Scottish government will try to interfere?

It was reissued for her on Friday.

Arrest warrant for ex-Catalan minister Clara Ponsatí - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43529496

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

What’s ridiculous about the premise?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Looks like a SNP MSP has started a fund raiser for 'financial support' for Clara Ponsati

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read it as suggesting that the Scottish government ie, SNP, would refuse to allow the people to be arrested on the grounds they (the fugitives) were fighting for independence from Spain. It suggests the police force is ruled not by law, but by government.

Am I wrong in that assessment?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Looks like a SNP MSP has started a fund raiser for 'financial support' for Clara Ponsati"

not surprised that someone would go down that route... i would also be surprise if some organisation didn't take on the case "free of charge" so to speak...

because she isn't a threat to the public, even if she is taken in, they would probably bail her out in the meantime that she doesn't skip the country... and because the UK isn't part of schengen she couldn't just slip in/out the country without the authorities noticing...;.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 25/03/18 20:30:10]

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's not that ridiculous. Here's a tweet from Angus MacNeil who's an MP for the SNP.

https://gyazo.com/b615a1a4756f2c81f0b021fe2c492c84

His words: "This is why Spain has to be cast out.....You cannot have Police Scotland doing the political work of the fascists in the Spanish Gov who jail people for peaceful democratic protests"

That's pretty ridiculous. Angus isn't the brightest though.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation "

How would you compare that to the way the Met have approached Juian Assange's arrest warrant?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Due process.

Scotland ain't some rogue state.

So long as the T's are crossed and I's dotted, the law will take its course.

That said, it's the same logic as applied in Ukraine.

Because a piece of paper says the state is indivisible, any attempt to do so is treacherous.

Er, no.

It's the people who are sovereign.

If they vote to change things, fuck your bits of paper.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation

How would you compare that to the way the Met have approached Juian Assange's arrest warrant? "

Assange was actually given exactly the same option.... but his response was to walk into the ecuadorian embassy specify because there was no extradition agreement

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Didn't realise that Scotland was now supposed to do the bidding of Fascists...

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation

How would you compare that to the way the Met have approached Juian Assange's arrest warrant?

Assange was actually given exactly the same option.... but his response was to walk into the ecuadorian embassy specify because there was no extradition agreement"

And since then?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Didn't realise that Scotland was now supposed to do the bidding of Fascists...

So you think police Scotland should ignore the arrest warrant?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation

How would you compare that to the way the Met have approached Juian Assange's arrest warrant?

Assange was actually given exactly the same option.... but his response was to walk into the ecuadorian embassy specify because there was no extradition agreement

And since then? "

and because under international law and embassy is defined as territory if that country, whilst there is no agreement, there is nothing the met can do.....

if he were to every walk out.. he could be charged with "contempt of court"

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

If Police Scotland don't act on the warrant and arrest her as they should, then questions will be asked why not.

The obvious inference will be political interference. Dare Holyrood risk that?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation

How would you compare that to the way the Met have approached Juian Assange's arrest warrant?

Assange was actually given exactly the same option.... but his response was to walk into the ecuadorian embassy specify because there was no extradition agreement

And since then?

and because under international law and embassy is defined as territory if that country, whilst there is no agreement, there is nothing the met can do.....

if he were to every walk out.. he could be charged with "contempt of court""

But there have been police waiting outside, 24/7, for years, I wonder if police Scotland will do the same, for this offence.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Didn't realise that Scotland was now supposed to do the bidding of Fascists...

So you think police Scotland should ignore the arrest warrant? "

Given the state of the Spanish government, yes they should, and show a bit of solidarity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

maybe spain should consider serving the outstanding warrants on the scores of violent british criminals who are living in spain with the full knowledge of the falangist government

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Police Scotland have the warrant in their hands and have contacted her to hand herself in for deportation

How would you compare that to the way the Met have approached Juian Assange's arrest warrant?

Assange was actually given exactly the same option.... but his response was to walk into the ecuadorian embassy specify because there was no extradition agreement

And since then?

and because under international law and embassy is defined as territory if that country, whilst there is no agreement, there is nothing the met can do.....

if he were to every walk out.. he could be charged with "contempt of court"

But there have been police waiting outside, 24/7, for years, I wonder if police Scotland will do the same, for this offence."

well first of all police scotland will give them the chance to come into the police station of their own accord (unless they are considered to be a danger to the public.. which this person is not)

they if they say they are going to fight the case legally it will go to court and bail will probably be set with conditions (or prison if she is considered a danger to the public, of a flight risk)... for example, bail having to hand in their passport for the time being and having to report to a police station every so often.....

so police scotland in effect would have done their bit.... the rest would be on the scottish legal system under uk guidence....

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Apparently she is going to hand herself in, but Sturgeon isn't happy about it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Apparently she is going to hand herself in, but Sturgeon isn't happy about it! "

nice to see you can click on the bbc news page

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

EU membership requires independence of the judiciary and criminal justice system from political interference.

Poland is facing sanctions from the EU because it acted to exercise political control over the judges.

It is being threatened with a suspension of its voting rights in the EU - the step after that is expulsion.

Whatever political sympathies may exist in Scotland towards an activist taking refuge, Police Scotland is obliged to uphold the due process of law. I've no doubt it will do so, and will be extra careful to do this exactly by the book.

Could this person apply for political asylum? That would be an extraordinary challenge to democracy in Europe, i.e. a member state is accused of persecution of citizens for political reasons?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Apparently she is going to hand herself in, but Sturgeon isn't happy about it! "

She is doing the right thing... she Will go in, and be bailed straight out to appear at another time

At this stage there is no point in not going through the right legal action

She can fight the extradition request and lengthen the process

The way the Spanish authorities went about the original requests is not going to help their case in the UK courts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I don't think she should be extradited.

Under Scots law there are no treason and sudition laws.

So I don't see why the warrant should apply in Scotland.

I do agree with the other poster that kinky should get her out of this by stating she is human not a person and she has no contract with the cops that will serve the international warrant on her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I don't think she should be extradited.

Under Scots law there are no treason and sudition laws.

So I don't see why the warrant should apply in Scotland.

I do agree with the other poster that kinky should get her out of this by stating she is human not a person and she has no contract with the cops that will serve the international warrant on her.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Personally I don't think she should be extradited.

Under Scots law there are no treason and sudition laws.

So I don't see why the warrant should apply in Scotland.

I do agree with the other poster that kinky should get her out of this by stating she is human not a person and she has no contract with the cops that will serve the international warrant on her.

But would you want a Scottish criminal to live free and clear in a country just because they didn't have a certain law on their statutes? Probably not, and that is the basis for extradition, reciprocity.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Personally I don't think she should be extradited.

Under Scots law there are no treason and sudition laws.

So I don't see why the warrant should apply in Scotland.

Actually this was the argument that puidgemont was using whilst he was in Belgium... and it looked like it might work

Unfortunately for him, Germany does have that law.. and Germany have said they are inclined to agree with Spain

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

My understanding is that treason is reserved to the UK Parliament, not devolved to the Scottish Parliament, and currently is covered by the 1998 Crime and Disorder Act, which has chapters applicable in Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I don't think she should be extradited.

Under Scots law there are no treason and sudition laws.

So I don't see why the warrant should apply in Scotland.

I do agree with the other poster that kinky should get her out of this by stating she is human not a person and she has no contract with the cops that will serve the international warrant on her.

She is a little old lady I am not exactly a terrorist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For extradition it has to be proven that

1) there is reciprocal illegialty- there is criminality in both countries- there hasn't been

2) sedition is not a crime in the UK

3)There can be no politically motivated reason for extradition.

So, by law, there is no chance of this happening because it fails on all levels

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Where does it say this in the Extradition Act 2003?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"For extradition it has to be proven that

2) sedition is not a crime in the UK

So, by law, there is no chance of this happening because it fails on all levels"

But incitement is, as are the myriad of treason offences. Further, when it comes to extradition we do not apply English or Scottish law to the offence that the extradition warrant has been issued for. The only questions that require answering are:

A. Is the warrant valid?

B. Is the person named in the warrant in danger of human rights abuses if returned to the country that issued the warrant?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Those are not the only 2 questions that are asked!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Those are not the only 2 questions that are asked!"

Really?

Please elucidate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For extradition to be successful, there has to be criminality in both countries, sedition is not a crime here and political motivation is not grounds and is reason for failure- the words of the top English extradition lawyer...so I guess they know what they are talking about.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I think they are doing what lawyers do! They find a way to suggest that black is white to argue a defence to matters.

I think that the Extradition Act says something else!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For extradition to be successful, there has to be criminality in both countries, sedition is not a crime here and political motivation is not grounds and is reason for failure- the words of the top English extradition lawyer...so I guess they know what they are talking about.

Why does there have to be a crime commited in both countries !!!!

Surely the country where the crime was commited applies for extradition to the country where the alledged criminal has fled too

That does not mean the alledged criminal has committed a crime in the new country

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"For extradition to be successful, there has to be criminality in both countries

That is not so. In fact in this country you do not even have to visit the country or have any interests (personal or business) in another country to be extradited to that country if they can show you have broken the law in that country.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Someone was explaining something that I couldn't quite grasp on here the other day, about how only if a person consents to the types of law that they approve of, can they actually be subject to it, or something along those lines.

I'm assuming that there'll not be any charges brought, as there won't be consent and agreement. It's got to be that simple.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Read the Extradition Act 2003!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure the top UK extradition lawyer has already ?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

But he's hardly going to say - there is no chance - is he?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sedition is not a crime in the UK so the EAW fails on that as there's not common criminality

It's arguably politically motivated- fail

Doubt about a fair trail- fail

It's likely to fail on all levels. UK law.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

This seems to be her defence, according to her lawyer as reported by the BBC.

Mr Anwar told the BBC's Good Morning Scotland radio programme: "My instructions are that this is a political persecution - a systematic attempt to criminalise the desire for independence.

"We believe that if she is sent back to Spain then she will suffer inhumane and degrading treatment and that the independence of the judiciary in Spain cannot be guaranteed.

"Quite frankly the charge of rebellion that Clara faces is a charge of rebellion with violence against the unity of the Spanish state, which means she faces up to 30 years in prison."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That pretty much sums up what the English solicitor said so no surprise there.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Well he did not say - no sedition in the UK, so no extradition - which is what you were claiming!

I have not seen any report that says what the European Warrant states that the charge is. I guess that it is not sedition, which is why he did not use that defence.

I think that the Spanish will have taken their own legal advice and been told - don't charge with that, because there is no such offence in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sedition was the word she used. I'm sure she knows what she's talking about. The EAW was issued several days ago. She was speaking last night.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Well that does not seem to be the defence being used, so I guess that it is not on the warrant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does appear on the warrant, according to online sources- "Rebellion and sedition".

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Have you seen the warrant? I think those words might be the media summary, but the legal terms will be more accurate and appropriate than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm pretty sure the top deportation lawyer in the country would know what she was talking about.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

You keep mentioning this person. I told you

(a) - they are paid to say that there is a defence, not give in before they have started; and

(b) - I quoted what was reported by the BBC. The person did not use that defence. I told you what defences they used. They did not use that defence, because presumably it is not available.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No....The person quoted was not working on the case so not being paid.

Whether or not she was being paid isn't the issue anyway. She was quoting the facts of law.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

But the facts depend on the charges, and I simply don't believe that the Spanish want egg (Spanish omelette) on their face by putting a charge on the warrant, that does not apply in the UK, so that the extradition is automatically refused.

I don't believe that they are so stupid.

Remember - they issued arrest warrants previously, and withdrew them. They have had plenty of time to get this right.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"What’s ridiculous about the premise?"
Scotland at present is in the EU as is Spain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No....The person quoted was not working on the case so not being paid.

Whether or not she was being paid isn't the issue anyway. She was quoting the facts of law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What’s ridiculous about the premise?Scotland at present is in the EU as is Spain"

The legal system is independent of government and anyway, is reserved to Westminster. The idea the Scottish government or Scottish Police have any sway in that is what is ridiculous.

It'll be debated long and hard in court, I'm sure, and, at the end of it all, only the legal professionals will benefit. Time will tell.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

The Police is supposed to be independent from the government, but do you honestly believe that phonecalls are never made, or comments made after a meeting, highlighting that certain actions or non-actions would be useful?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

But.... is it an act, or a law?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Now don't you start! We don't want a part 5 of that crap!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But.... is it an act, or a law?

I see their keeping their heads down for a while.... wonder if their meth had worn off and the looked back and read what they had posted....

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

so...... just to update...

she went in to the police station as pre arranged

was arrested, and served with the warrant

was then bailed out, as she is going to fight extradition....

so... police scotland did there bit without any fuss from either end......

who would have funk it.....

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

What crime did Clara commit ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Swiss and Belgium authorities denied that under the existing EU laws there were clear given legal reasons for the arrest of any of the parties searched for by the government of Spain. So if two countries members of the Schenger agreements veto an European arrest warrant then why does Britain have to toe the line yet again?

Britain has always given shelter to those politically oppressed and this is a clear case.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"What crime did Clara commit ? "

she has been charged in spain with rebellion and misappropriation of public funds

the rebellion charge wont stick because she was actually only part of the government and a low level member for 3 months...

the public funds bit is because the spanish govt declared the referendum illegal once it was called, any public campaign spending is then in theory a missue of public funds...

they won't make either stick... but the real question is whether the uk will agree with the spanish govt request

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

None whole issue is about 500 years old add in Franco and that Madrid needs the money from that region then you have the whole issue in thimble.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"None whole issue is about 500 years old add in Franco and that Madrid needs the money from that region then you have the whole issue in thimble.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Btw i seem to remember Rajoy claiming no referendum took place on the 1st Oct

In that case why call an election then doesnt get the result he wants so trys and trys to get countries to arrest these people that have commited no crime

Spains government in Madrid are very much look like nasty bastard dictators and yeah Franco would be proud of the bastards

Anyone thats wants Clara arrest and sent to Spain do you honestly believe she and others would get a fair trial ?

No crime was ever commited

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

CLCC out of interest say Scotland have a independence referendum without Westminsters permission will you be calling on the UK government to send in English police to beat the shit out us Scottish people ? Or arrest us for commiting no crime ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

I believe in the rule of law, and would hope the Scottish government do too.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

I believe in the rule of law, and would hope the Scottish government do too."

Ok under what law can Scotland not have a referendum without Westminsters permission ?

What crime did Clara commit ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

I believe in the rule of law, and would hope the Scottish government do too.

Ok under what law can Scotland not have a referendum without Westminsters permission ?

What crime did Clara commit ? "

We are not here to do your homework for you. That's the answer you always give.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

I believe in the rule of law, and would hope the Scottish government do too.

Ok under what law can Scotland not have a referendum without Westminsters permission ?

What crime did Clara commit ?

We are not here to do your homework for you. That's the answer you always give. "

I know no crime was commited thats me answering it

So CLCC do you believe Clara commited a crime or you afraid to say ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"What crime did Clara or infact any of them commit ?

Do your own homework

I believe in the rule of law, and would hope the Scottish government do too.

Ok under what law can Scotland not have a referendum without Westminsters permission ?

What crime did Clara commit ?

We are not here to do your homework for you. That's the answer you always give.

I know no crime was commited thats me answering it

So CLCC do you believe Clara commited a crime or you afraid to say ?"

The Spanish judge does, and police Scotland Do, they have a much better understanding of it than I do. There is no reason for me to think they are wrong.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer "

They do, so I believe them. It's interesting that you think Police Scotland are wrong though. Do you think that the Scottish government should have stepped in to protect her?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer "

How do you know?

Surely if you have such evidence you should as a good citizen report it..

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Ok CLCC name the crime you believe Clara has commited ? Should be easy to name the crime eh

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer

How do you know?

Surely if you have such evidence you should as a good citizen report it.. "

Same question you name the crime Clara has commited then ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Ok CLCC name the crime you believe Clara has commited ? Should be easy to name the crime eh "

I answered your question, please do me the same courtesy and answer mine.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

No didnt CLCC you shat out answering

As you cant even name one single crime you believe Clara commited prove me wrong ?

All you done was agree with Spains government and courts but you never said what the actually crime is lol

Tick tock lol

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I think your refusal to answer my question vindicates the premise of my opening post that was questioned further up. Many thanks kinky

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I think your refusal to answer my question vindicates the premise of my opening post that was questioned further up. Many thanks kinky

Lmao tick tock

Waiting you actually naming the crime you believe Clara commited ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Swiss and Belgium authorities denied that under the existing EU laws there were clear given legal reasons for the arrest of any of the parties searched for by the government of Spain. So if two countries members of the Schenger agreements veto an European arrest warrant then why does Britain have to toe the line yet again?

Britain has always given shelter to those politically oppressed and this is a clear case."

The arrest means nothing in particular- it's just the process. She was always going to arrested then bailed.. It's the next bit that'll be interesting

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer

How do you know?

Surely if you have such evidence you should as a good citizen report it..

Same question you name the crime Clara has commited then ?

You've said you know no crime has been commited..

So stop prattling about playing games and do your civic duty..

Unless it's more wind and piss and you actually know nothing?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer

How do you know?

Surely if you have such evidence you should as a good citizen report it..

Same question you name the crime Clara has commited then ?

You've said you know no crime has been commited..

So stop prattling about playing games and do your civic duty..

Unless it's more wind and piss and you actually know nothing?

So you cant name one single crime eh ?

Did Clara cause harm ? Did Clara steal ie cause loss ? Did Clara cause damage ?

I say no crime has been commited if you wanna think otherwise then simply name the crime Clara commited then ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Being arrested is NOT A reflection of the UK position on guilt. It's laid down exactly the process that is in place to deal with this. Nothing to argue about.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"CLCC do " you" believe Clara commited a crime ? Never mind what others are saying i wanna hear from you only

I will answer it by saying no crime was commited are you afraid to answer

How do you know?

Surely if you have such evidence you should as a good citizen report it..

Same question you name the crime Clara has commited then ?

You've said you know no crime has been commited..

So stop prattling about playing games and do your civic duty..

Unless it's more wind and piss and you actually know nothing?

So you cant name one single crime eh ?

Did Clara cause harm ? Did Clara steal ie cause loss ? Did Clara cause damage ?

I say no crime has been commited if you wanna think otherwise then simply name the crime Clara commited then ? "

What kind of a sick person would deny justice to another person by not telling the authorities what they know..

Sad sad times..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Political prisoners for whatever reason.Makes me uneasy.These charges against the organisers of the independence vote seem to political motivated and trumped up.Locking people up who want independence for up to 30 years is a road that leads to violence and armed struggle.As history has taught us.Im saddened by Spain and it's response.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Still waiting on an actually crime that people believe Clara committed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/03/18 19:43:46]

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Still waiting on an actually crime that people believe Clara committed?

If only it had been written somewhere. That would really help you out, wouldn't it. I mean, can you imagine if the original poster of this thread had named the charges in their opening post, that would just make everything so much easier!

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Lmao

So you believe sedition and rebellion is crimes ? Glad you aint charge your no better than Rajoy CLCC

Again no wonder the UK is fucked when you believe locking people up who want independence is a crime lmao

I bet you believe Spain is doing a goid job at trying to lock these innocent people up

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Lmao

So you believe sedition and rebellion is crimes ? Glad you aint charge your no better than Rajoy CLCC

Again no wonder the UK is fucked when you believe locking people up who want independence is a crime lmao

I bet you believe Spain is doing a goid job at trying to lock these innocent people up "

So why was an arrest warrant issued, and why was she arrested if it's not a crime?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

CLCC i want independence for Scotland would you have me locked up ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"CLCC i want independence for Scotland would you have me locked up ?

I believe in care in the community.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"CLCC i want independence for Scotland would you have me locked up ?

Better lock me up too, I also want Independence for Scotland

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"CLCC i want independence for Scotland would you have me locked up ?

I believe in care in the community. "

CLCC i want independence for Scotland do you believe thats a crime and would have me locked up in prison ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"CLCC i want independence for Scotland would you have me locked up ?

I believe in care in the community.

CLCC i want independence for Scotland do you believe thats a crime and would have me locked up in prison ? "

Come to think of it CLCC, what would your intentions be for Leading Party of Scotland, it appears they also want Independence, and some of them sit in Westminster too

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

jesus.... how does kinky manage to turn every bloody conversation around to scottish independence...

one bloody trick bloody pony......

police scotland did the bit they were required to do with no fuss from her....

she is legally allowed to fight the extridiction.... if the uk courts feel she would not get a fair trial on the grounds of religion or politics they can decide not to extridite... and that is probably the avenue they will push....

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Fabio do you believe Clara commited a crime ?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

She had to surrender her passport, so no flight available to a place of sanctuary. The £170k raised by crowd funding should see some good legal representation, which is handy, as I can see this dragging on for months.

On another note, that other cause celebre, Julian Assange, has had his internet cut off by Ecuador. That will cause him some pain so expect some bleating about "human rights" from him and his supporters.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Everyone that actually believes Clara has commited a crime and should be sent to Spain then your better than Rajoy

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Fabio do you believe Clara commited a crime ?"

I have put my feelings on the subject further up in the thread if you had bothered to read it rather than turn it into yet another independence topic....

the lady is an academic and not a politican in my eyes...

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Fabio i only brought up Scottish independence because CLCC seems to think sedition and rebellion and wanting independence is a crime

So i simply asked i want Scottish independence would you lot lock me up for wanting independence for my country ?

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"CLCC i want independence for Scotland would you have me locked up ?

I believe in care in the community.

CLCC i want independence for Scotland do you believe thats a crime and would have me locked up in prison ?

Come to think of it CLCC, what would your intentions be for Leading Party of Scotland, it appears they also want Independence, and some of them sit in Westminster too

Interesting that CLCC goes off on one claiming others dont answer yet there is lack on an answer on this question lol

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Any state which has sedition and rebellion within its constitutional law or sends in paramilitary police to crush democratic demonstrations (to the fascist salutes and falangist support of the pro-Madrid onlookers, is closer in nature to Erdogan's fascist regime than a modern democracy.

What is so appalling is that the EU has meekly observed the thuggish behaviour of Rajoy, his questionable judiciary and his brutish civil guards without murmuring any protest. When it comes to the people vs. the big state, the EC's aristocrats know where their loyalties lie. (That viewpoint also held by the silent witness tory government and the statist British media - and many on here)

Fortunately, Switzerland has already rejected one extradition request from Madrid and it is to be hoped that both Scotland and Germany will follow suit, on the basis that such "crimes" have no equivalence in modern European countries.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA"

And what is that personal barb supposed to mean?

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"jesus.... how does kinky manage to turn every bloody conversation around to scottish independence...

one bloody trick bloody pony......

police scotland did the bit they were required to do with no fuss from her....

Nothing to do with UK.

The extradition may have been sought under the ghastly EAW arrangement, but the case will be heard within the jurisdiction of Scotland, which has its own legal system.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA

And what is that personal barb supposed to mean?"

I'm sure that most folk on here will understand.

If the hat fits...

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA

And what is that personal barb supposed to mean?

I'm sure that most folk on here will understand.

If the hat fits..."

So you are too ashamed of your comments to fully explain what exactly you meant?

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA

And what is that personal barb supposed to mean?

I'm sure that most folk on here will understand.

If the hat fits...

So you are too ashamed of your comments to fully explain what exactly you meant? "

No, you're wrong again. Not ashamed, just can't be arsed because the comment is self-evident.

Why not check the responses to most of your posts?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA

And what is that personal barb supposed to mean?

I'm sure that most folk on here will understand.

If the hat fits...

So you are too ashamed of your comments to fully explain what exactly you meant?

No, you're wrong again. Not ashamed, just can't be arsed because the comment is self-evident.

Why not check the responses to most of your posts?"

Some said she has committed no crime, and that she shouldn't be arrested. That shows the premise of the question was far from ridiculous.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Don't understand the original question because the premise is ridiculous but do understand the bias and its inference.

It's an essential component in CLCC's DNA

And what is that personal barb supposed to mean?

I'm sure that most folk on here will understand.

If the hat fits...

So you are too ashamed of your comments to fully explain what exactly you meant?

No, you're wrong again. Not ashamed, just can't be arsed because the comment is self-evident.

Why not check the responses to most of your posts?"

doubt CLCC will they believe they are always right and everyone elses is in the wrong

Its the my dick is bigger than your dick / puffs oot the chest am superior to you lot

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

CLCC you claimed you agreed with Spains courts and government that sedition and rebellion is a crime correct ?

Under what law again ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"CLCC you claimed you agreed with Spains courts and government that sedition and rebellion is a crime correct ?

Under what law again ?"

This is what you said the other day, "don't agree with the supreme Court ruling?

Doesn't matter what country it's in

That was what the supreme Court ruled"

You obviously believe that supreme courts are right, no matter what country they are in!

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

CLCC what crime did Clara commited ? Under what law ?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"CLCC what crime did Clara commited ? Under what law ? "

Read the opening post.

Why do you ask the same question over and over in such a facile manner?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

CLCC You honestly believe sedition and rebellion is a crime ? Lol

In that case do you believe i should be locked up for supporting Scottish independence ?

What do you think should happen to the SNP as they are leading Party of Scotland and they believe in independence ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its the my dick is bigger than your dick / puffs oot the chest am superior to you lot "

Kinky, you keep on about the size of CLCC's dick.

Do you have penis envy?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Its the my dick is bigger than your dick / puffs oot the chest am superior to you lot

Kinky, you keep on about the size of CLCC's dick.

Do you have penis envy?"

Flies right over your heed i see lol no matter you just think whatever you want i dont care

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Its the my dick is bigger than your dick / puffs oot the chest am superior to you lot

Kinky, you keep on about the size of CLCC's dick.

Do you have penis envy?"

It's weird, isn't it?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The EAW also details a charge of "misappropriation of public funds", which if convicted in Spain, carries a maximum jail sentence of 8 years.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy effectively admitted that Catalan president Carles Puigdemont could not have committed a crime of misappropriation of public funds in relation to Catalonia's independence referendum on 1st October last year

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy effectively admitted that Catalan president Carles Puigdemont could not have committed a crime of misappropriation of public funds in relation to Catalonia's independence referendum on 1st October last year

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

It is not up to Rajoy to say what is right or wrong it is up to the Spanish courts.

Hopefully the Scottish courts will loose the paperwork and no extradition will take place.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

It is not up to Rajoy to say what is right or wrong it is up to the Spanish courts.

Hopefully the Scottish courts will loose the paperwork and no extradition will take place."

Do you honestly believe they would get a fair trial in Spain ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

It is not up to Rajoy to say what is right or wrong it is up to the Spanish courts.

Hopefully the Scottish courts will loose the paperwork and no extradition will take place.

Do you honestly believe they would get a fair trial in Spain ?

Yes !!!

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

It is not up to Rajoy to say what is right or wrong it is up to the Spanish courts.

Hopefully the Scottish courts will loose the paperwork and no extradition will take place.

Do you honestly believe they would get a fair trial in Spain ?

Yes !!!

Lmao

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

It is not up to Rajoy to say what is right or wrong it is up to the Spanish courts.

Hopefully the Scottish courts will loose the paperwork and no extradition will take place.

Do you honestly believe they would get a fair trial in Spain ?

Yes !!!

Lmao "

Laugh away but no one has given me any proof the Spanish courts are any more influenced that the Scottish courts by political situations.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/video-rajoy-puigdemont-misuse-public-funds_253320_102_amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

It is not up to Rajoy to say what is right or wrong it is up to the Spanish courts.

Hopefully the Scottish courts will loose the paperwork and no extradition will take place.

Do you honestly believe they would get a fair trial in Spain ?

Yes !!!

Lmao

Laugh away but no one has given me any proof the Spanish courts are any more influenced that the Scottish courts by political situations."

Fair enough thats your opinion i dont think they would

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I don't think she should be extradited.

Under Scots law there are no treason and sudition laws.

So I don't see why the warrant should apply in Scotland.

Actually this was the argument that puidgemont was using whilst he was in Belgium... and it looked like it might work

Unfortunately for him, Germany does have that law.. and Germany have said they are inclined to agree with Spain "

Germany haven't said anything like that ... in fact, Germany have correctly said it isn't treason and have refused to extradite on the falangist's trumped up rebellion charge .... he's now bailed until they decide if the lesser charge of corruption is admissable

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