FabSwingers.com forum: Sanctions against Russia...

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 17/03/18 18:25:09]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The UK expels some diplomats, withdraws some officials from the Olympics....but the UK still retains Russia as its biggest buyer for weapons grade depleted uranium. Not a lot of money involved so why not stop? Or, even, start at all?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

[Removed by poster at 17/03/18 18:44:31]

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

As if Putin would even care about May's little outbursts and some minions being expelled back to Russia. After the last murder, people were expelled and returned not long afterwards.

Punishments should be coordinated, not kneejerk and relevant to any activity/crime committed, with appropriate effects upon the 'punished'. As it stands, the world knows that the UK is weak, with a weak leader and government. A soft target that could be gamed for someone's amusement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As if Putin would even care about May's little outbursts and some minions being expelled back to Russia. After the last murder, people were expelled and returned not long afterwards.

the tory party ... the cheapest government money can buy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She missed a trick by not immediately pulling out all of the uk diplomats from Russia before they could have kicked them out

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Expelling diplomats is not even a face-saving exercise any more: it's pointless because it always works the same way.

What is not clear is a) why the UK was selling uranium to Russia and b) why it wasn't one of the sanctions.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"The UK expels some diplomats, withdraws some officials from the Olympics....but the UK still retains Russia as its biggest buyer for weapons grade depleted uranium. Not a lot of money involved so why not stop? Or, even, start at all?"

weapons-grade depleted uranium?

that is a contradiction of terms

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Google it.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Uranium exists in the ground.

99% is natural and little use.

Uranium-238.

The bit you want is the fizzy bit, Uranium-235.

Less than 1% in nature.

It's the stuff that goes bang.

You need a lump of metal enriched with U-235 to 90% and more to make it pop.

The uranium from which it's been extracted is now depleted.

The dead metal left behind.

Only good for weights in aeroplanes and the like.

So weapons-grade depleted uranium is a contradiction.

Weapons grade is uranium enriched to 90 per cent of the U-235 bit. Depleted is the shit left behind.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That shit bit is used as a weapon/means to penetrate metal eg tanks- 'tank buster'. It seems not to have been particularly effective in killing but its capability to go through metal isn't in doubt and it is termed weapons grade. I'm sure there are other fiendish ways to use it. Is there a non lethal use for it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Uranium exists in the ground.

99% is natural and little use.

Uranium-238.

The bit you want is the fizzy bit, Uranium-235.

Less than 1% in nature.

It's the stuff that goes bang.

You need a lump of metal enriched with U-235 to 90% and more to make it pop.

The uranium from which it's been extracted is now depleted.

The dead metal left behind.

Only good for weights in aeroplanes and the like.

So weapons-grade depleted uranium is a contradiction.

Weapons grade is uranium enriched to 90 per cent of the U-235 bit. Depleted is the shit left behind."

You are getting yourself mixed up by just thinking enriched uranium is the only uranium that can be used as a weapon.

Depleted uranium is also used in weapons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That shit bit is used as a weapon/means to penetrate metal eg tanks- 'tank buster'. It seems not to have been particularly effective in killing but its capability to go through metal isn't in doubt and it is termed weapons grade. I'm sure there are other fiendish ways to use it. Is there a non lethal use for it?

Yes lots.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The uranium from which it's been extracted is now depleted.

The dead metal left behind.

Only good for weights in aeroplanes and the like.

So weapons-grade depleted uranium is a contradiction."

I guess the use of depleted uranium in AP projectiles does not count in your expert opinion.

Or is it a case of you are so uninformed about the properties of DU that you do not know that when traveling at supersonic speed and it comes in with armour it turns into a super-heated plasma that burns its way through and irradiates whatever it hits. Maybe you also do not know that Iraq is peppered with tank wrecks destroyed by our DU munitions that are radiologist hazards. Or is it that your just ignoring the realities in order to defend your precious Tories.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yes lots.

I'm interested- what?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

When we are talking uranium in a military context, weapons-grade is normally the enrichment of the U-235 isotope to more then 90 per cent, i.e. sufficient for a fission bomb.

Yes, I recognise that depleted uranium has other uses as a heavy metal, such as armour piercing. But to call it weapons-grade is misleading and conflates the definition of a nuclear weapon. Yes, it is toxic, too. But it is not fissile.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There's no point trying to hide the fact it's used on weapons of destruction anf that the UK sells it to a country they perceive as a world great. Not only that, one they accuse of chemical warfare on their soil.. That is the sheerest hypocrisy

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Russia has access to vast stocks of uranium and exports widely for civil purposes. I'd never heard of the UK exporting depleted uranium to Russia. I'd doubt if the Russians are particularly worried about it.

In 2016, Russia exported uranium valued at $50m, making it the eighth largest exporter in the world.

In 2016, the UK exported uranium valued at $61,000, making it the 15th largest exporter.

It's a red herring.

As an aside, Russia's role in the supply of uranium in the US is part of the whole murky business currently soiling US politics. Trump fans claim the Clintons took bribes to sell 20% of the US supply chain - UraniumOne - to the Russians.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

It's all star dust and it all goes back to being star dust.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Last year the exports to Russia alone were a great deal more than in the tens of thousands of dollars.

I don't understand your argument anyway- it seems to be monetarily based, rather than ethically. All's fair I war- so long as it pays.....

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Let me present this another way.

Depleted uranium is stored in any compound with a fence and a key.

Enriched uranium is protected by armed guards, lots of them.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Highly-enriched, I meant. Anything above 20% is HEU. Above 90% and you have the ingredients of a bomb.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

But depleted uranium is still used in weapons, hence 'weapon grade'. Willwill put it better than I.

Anyway, we still sell products used in the making of armaments to the UK's present best foe. Stopping that surely is a sensible move.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

We couldn't even start to compare our radioactive pollution to what's being created in our universe every micro second.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

We couldn't even start to compare our radioactive pollution to what's being created in our universe every micro second."

Of course we can.

Du isn't natural, it's completely man made and we've spread it everywhere, it's half life is 4.5 billion years and it's a heavy toxin, if you know something more deadly created by the universe every micro second let's hear it, you must know 5256 examples since you posted?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

We couldn't even start to compare our radioactive pollution to what's being created in our universe every micro second.

Of course we can.

You don't know much about our universe and how neutron stars evolve and decay do you......how they can produce the energy & radiation of approximately 50 trillion 1st generation nuclear bombs.

You think we have nasty stuff here on earth, the universe makes our efforts of WMD's look rather pathetic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and that example is worked out from using a teaspoon worth of neutron star material, not an entire star.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"But depleted uranium is still used in weapons, hence 'weapon grade'. Willwill put it better than I.

Anyway, we still sell products used in the making of armaments to the UK's present best foe. Stopping that surely is a sensible move. "

OK, let me ask this then - what other grade of depleted uranium exists?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

We couldn't even start to compare our radioactive pollution to what's being created in our universe every micro second.

Of course we can.

Natural uranium exists in the ground. There is lots of it.

Depleted uranium is natural uranium minus the U-235 isotope, i.e. it is 99 per cent natural.

Of much more concern is the carpet of radioactive shit that covers the surface of the earth from all the atmospheric weapons tests in the 1950s and 60s.

That radioactive shit is also present in every human being on the planet.

It is responsible for an unknown number of premature deaths.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Frankly, I'd be a lot more chuffed off if I were about to die from a weapon made with products my country had sold to another, who had then fired it at me. Or, being me, fired at any other poor bugger. That I perhaps COULD have done something to stop happening.

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By *eral SexMan
over a year ago

Port Talbot

I think the expulsion of diplomats, the recall of our ambassador and an advised travel ban to Russia does have an effect. While sanctions can be tricky to implement without hurting the countries doing the sanctioning (oil, gas etc), the withdrawal of contact means that Russia's trade can't grow and it's foreign currency reserves plateau. For that to work of course, Europe has to apply the same pressure and ideally the US too. I can't see this govt achieving this scale of international consensus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

We couldn't even start to compare our radioactive pollution to what's being created in our universe every micro second.

Of course we can.

Natural uranium exists in the ground. There is lots of it.

Depleted uranium is natural uranium minus the U-235 isotope, i.e. it is 99 per cent natural.

Of much more concern is the carpet of radioactive shit that covers the surface of the earth from all the atmospheric weapons tests in the 1950s and 60s.

That radioactive shit is also present in every human being on the planet.

It is responsible for an unknown number of premature deaths."

Thing is, radiation isn't just man made, the vast majority of radiation on earth comes from the sun, we've just added to it a bit but the sun's radiation keeps twatting us every second.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Radiation? Alpha beta gamma? There all different.

Du isn't a worry from radiation so to speak, it's a heavy toxin like lead or Mercury.

Du is man made, it doesn't exist in nature, natural uranium which lies around all over the shop contains various isotopes, removing some of those isotopes gives you du, that's why it's called depleted.

If you really want to see it's effects just look at the birth abnormalities in Iraq since the war

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

".... the withdrawal of contact means that Russia's trade can't grow and it's foreign currency reserves plateau. For that to work of course, Europe has to apply the same pressure and ideally the US too. I can't see this govt achieving this scale of international consensus. "

The Russian economy actually improved and grew during and after the last diplomatic spat by the imposition of sanctions whilst the UK's did the opposite so I'm sure they are not the least bit bothered.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They don't mind a bit of bombing but withdrawing money is a no no

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one pollution that will still be here when the earth goes bang in 4.2 billon years .... That's some achievement,huzzah

We couldn't even start to compare our radioactive pollution to what's being created in our universe every micro second.

Of course we can.

Natural uranium exists in the ground. There is lots of it.

Depleted uranium is natural uranium minus the U-235 isotope, i.e. it is 99 per cent natural.

Of much more concern is the carpet of radioactive shit that covers the surface of the earth from all the atmospheric weapons tests in the 1950s and 60s.

That radioactive shit is also present in every human being on the planet.

It is responsible for an unknown number of premature deaths.

Thing is, radiation isn't just man made, the vast majority of radiation on earth comes from the sun, we've just added to it a bit but the sun's radiation keeps twatting us every second."

Thank God for putting an iron core inside the earth thus creating a magnetic field protecting us from the evil solar winds and radiation.

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By *eral SexMan
over a year ago

Port Talbot

Am intrigued to hear this. I confess my only source is a mate who's PhD is in militarism in Russian civilian society. She's in Russia at the moment and said that the last lot of sanctions are remembered with horror by the industrial organisations who lobby Putin regularly. The Russian press never report their meetings with the govt but they've had quite a few this past week. It's not my personal area of specialisation though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That's interesting.

My source for this was online BBC so it feeds back into the loop of belief or propaganda on both sides.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Russia has billions and billions of dollars invested outside of Russia (far more than inward investment) so more money flows back than out when the sanctions are placed.

Also russia is a fairly big holder of western bonds where as the reverse can't be said.

UN sanctions would work better but that will never happen so it will be western sanctions and in that regard Russia has less to lose than the West.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

US President Donald Trump has ordered the expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats over the poisoning of a former spy in the UK.

Germany, France and Ukraine have also announced they are each expelling Russian diplomats.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Could be a general kickback against Russia, with the Salisbury incident being a convenient catalyst.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

So that takes the count up to 17 countries so far... 14 eu plus us, Ukraine and Canada.. and I am sure more will follow...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I bet Teresa May never thought her plan would work so well

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Luckily Donald Tusk loves Poland as much as he dislikes Mrs May!

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Let's put all the "I'm smarter than you" stuff aside.

Are we possibly on the brink of a major military conflict against Russia and it's allies?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's put all the "I'm smarter than you" stuff aside.

Are we possibly on the brink of a major military conflict against Russia and it's allies?"

I think that is a concern with many, and the UK is very badly equipped for conflict

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's put all the "I'm smarter than you" stuff aside.

Are we possibly on the brink of a major military conflict against Russia and it's allies?"

The world is fed up with Russia.It's a message that needed to be sent.Russia has no appetite for war.Today we have all our allies on side there is nothing to fear from Putin.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Let's put all the "I'm smarter than you" stuff aside.

Are we possibly on the brink of a major military conflict against Russia and it's allies?"

Not sure it will go to that level as no one wins but it'll certainly be cyber and energy possibly restricted come winter if it's still going on..

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Good!

Then we can stop relying on scumbag states, and start burning coal in our power stations again, like sensible countries, and stop being beholden to thugs.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Good!

Then we can stop relying on scumbag states, and start burning coal in our power stations again, like sensible countries, and stop being beholden to thugs."

Coal imported from China?

Thatcher destroyed that industry

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

No, economics and Arthur Scargill destroyed that industry.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"No, economics and Arthur Scargill destroyed that industry."

Stop with the trying to rewrite history..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Good!

Then we can stop relying on scumbag states, and start burning coal in our power stations again, like sensible countries, and stop being beholden to thugs."

Burning coal isn't sensible it's retarded.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"No, economics and Arthur Scargill destroyed that industry.

Stop with the trying to rewrite history..

What? Because it was sensible to extract expensive coal was it, and Scargill was a moderate union leader, interested in his members?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Good!

Then we can stop relying on scumbag states, and start burning coal in our power stations again, like sensible countries, and stop being beholden to thugs.

Burning coal isn't sensible it's retarded.

It's sensible and we should be burning it, just like the rest of Europe and the world does.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Good!

Then we can stop relying on scumbag states, and start burning coal in our power stations again, like sensible countries, and stop being beholden to thugs.

Burning coal isn't sensible it's retarded.

It's sensible and we should be burning it, just like the rest of Europe and the world does."

Well andy you have 7 years left.Thats 2025 when every coal fired power station will be shut down in the uk.Most if not all will be shut down by 2022.There are only 8 left and one shuts down this year.By the time we leave the EU we want really need coal to make electricity because we won't have coal fired stations.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Well we can build some nice new ones. Germany are very good at it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually Germany is also phasing out all coal power stations over the next 20 years.The reason new ones have been built is it also shuts down all its nuclear power plants in 2022.Creating a power problem.Its heavily invested in renewable energy every year.Germany will be coal and nuclear free in 20 years.They are very sensible people .

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Actually Germany is also phasing out all coal power stations over the next 20 years.The reason new ones have been built is it also shuts down all its nuclear power plants in 2022.Creating a power problem.Its heavily invested in renewable energy every year.Germany will be coal and nuclear free in 20 years.They are very sensible people .

Even getting their gas from Russia?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Even getting their gas from Russia?

"
Only a third is Russian gas the rest comes from Norway and the Netherlands.Its sensible not to have all your eggs in one basket.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that takes the count up to 17 countries so far... 14 eu plus us, Ukraine and Canada.. and I am sure more will follow..."
.

Exactly as I said, all western countries.

The Ukraine is now a vassal pawn state of the West.

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