FabSwingers.com forum: EU / UK

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Whatever your personal history of opinion upon the UK remaining or leaving the EU, how open to flexibility are you, depending upon the changing contexts that come?

If conclusions are seemingly terrible or seemingly fantastic for the UK, will you allow yourself the flexibility to adjust your opinion and what you publicly state?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Whatever your personal history of opinion upon the UK remaining or leaving the EU, how open to flexibility are you, depending upon the changing contexts that come?

If conclusions are seemingly terrible or seemingly fantastic for the UK, will you allow yourself the flexibility to adjust your opinion and what you publicly state?"

Of course I would flexible. I want what is best for my family and for this country and if/when we start to get truly meaningful prospects and plans that the Govt (and we all) can start to implement for a rosy future outside the EU - I will embrace it fully.

Until such time I will base my opinions on what I see, hear and perceive and at the moment that is David Davis changing his story from Brexit being, "every bit as good as what we have now, in fact even better," to "It won't be as bad as Mad Max dystopia."

The reality today was in fact David Davis lying to us (again) by insisting that levels of bureaucracy and red tape would actually increase as the UK raised its standards. This is a complete contradiction (again) to the almost universally trotted out line that once out of the EU, red tape and regulations can be cut.

The overall impression remains of a Brexit cabinet that is clueless and any journey that has no plan, no execution and no idea will inevitably fail.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

If offered a vote upon the deal, I am open enough to be able to relinquish long held perspectives and to decide based upon the facts at that point.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I am totally flexible, the question should be is our strong and stable leader flexible? I would suggest not.

Leading on from that the secondary question should be will the EU harden its attitude in response to our PMs seeming intransigence, and if so what result will that have on us?

I expect that many regardless of how flexible they are may well find they are bent to breaking due to brexit. I further expect that many of those that will be broken by brexit are its biggest fans and defenders.

But then come the revolution the first against the wall are usually the foot soldiers and agitators of said revolution.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"I am totally flexible, the question should be is our strong and stable leader flexible? I would suggest not.

Leading on from that the secondary question should be will the EU harden its attitude in response to our PMs seeming intransigence, and if so what result will that have on us?

But then come the revolution the first against the wall are usually the foot soldiers and agitators of said revolution."
So sixties/seventees it is sad to read this sort of thing 40 years on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im flexible. I'd quite like brexit to work seeing as how the tories are slitting their wrists over it, labour seems to be pacing back and forth on a hill, and the lib dems are just sidelined.

Sad fact is, I don't see any decent plans on how to make the country be able to compete as well as some other nations eg, Japan.

Me might be able to compete but will it create nation wide growth and jobs? If it does not Im pretty sure you'll see more protest voting or more political disenfranchisment.

I guess fmthe issue that i'm trying to highlight is that those pushing brexit need to be open about the true root causes of the problems they saw in the country and how the EU prevented us from stopping them.

Until then you wont get a brexit which both leads to people being happier and people being more prosperous.

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By *eefyBangerMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

Can't say I'm flexible in any way shape or form. The UK electorate as a whole voted for Brexit and that is exactly what should happen.

No deals, no pay offs, no common market.

Just leave and let Europe deal with the mess Merkel has brought upon it

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"Can't say I'm flexible in any way shape or form. The UK electorate as a whole voted for Brexit and that is exactly what should happen.

No deals, no pay offs, no common market.

Just leave and let Europe deal with the mess Merkel has brought upon it"

Are you a lemming in disguise? Leaping off a cliff edge is in noone's interests

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By *eefyBangerMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Can't say I'm flexible in any way shape or form. The UK electorate as a whole voted for Brexit and that is exactly what should happen.

No deals, no pay offs, no common market.

Just leave and let Europe deal with the mess Merkel has brought upon it

Are you a lemming in disguise? Leaping off a cliff edge is in noone's interests"

Yaaaaaawwwwwwwn

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Can't say I'm flexible in any way shape or form. The UK electorate as a whole voted for Brexit and that is exactly what should happen.

No deals, no pay offs, no common market.

Just leave and let Europe deal with the mess Merkel has brought upon it

Are you a lemming in disguise? Leaping off a cliff edge is in noone's interests

Yaaaaaawwwwwwwn"

My god what a mess that would be have you been drinking all night

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"Can't say I'm flexible in any way shape or form. The UK electorate as a whole voted for Brexit and that is exactly what should happen.

No deals, no pay offs, no common market.

Just leave and let Europe deal with the mess Merkel has brought upon it

Are you a lemming in disguise? Leaping off a cliff edge is in noone's interests

Yaaaaaawwwwwwwn"

I love your analysis.....and people wonder why blind faith Brexiteers are described as dim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would like the UK to do well post brexit - I have a vested interest so its a selfish one.

However, the P.M. has had a letter from 62 MP's laying out what they want.

They at least have put it in writing and if this is the stance then the EU are going to have to back down big time.

If they don't we won't have a transition deal, in fact any deal. So big unknown territory, but time will tell.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think the total so far is 1 inflexible, a couple of no comments and the rest were flexible. That's showing remainers as more flexible, isn't it?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

If we have to leave then something close to EFTA will be as good as it gets.

Free market access plus the EUs current trade deals including the newly acquired Canadian and Japanese ones.

Still crap compared to what we have but better than nothing.

Out of the EU as voted for.

After that it's a sliding scale of Just how bad. I don't know what my threshold will be.

Every single Brexit promise is nothing more than words until realised. The only guarantee is that we will not be paying for EU membership but we will be paying for our own bureaucracy to replicate all of the regulatory and negotiating bodies that we are leaving.

Even after the deal there will decades of unexpected consequences and hidden costs.

We are buying a lottery ticket. It could be a fortune but the odds indicate that it will be worthless.

I'm still very willing to trust the UK population to reassess the situation once they know what the deal is.

I realises that Brexiteers don't anymore.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't say I'm flexible in any way shape or form. The UK electorate as a whole voted for Brexit and that is exactly what should happen.

No deals, no pay offs, no common market.

Just leave and let Europe deal with the mess Merkel has brought upon it"

So to clarify, its all about the refugee crisis for you then?

Because merkel was probably one of the best centrist politicians any developed nation has had in a period of austerity. Minus that big hiccup with letting anyone or everyone in.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Are brexit supporters just less flexible in their mindset?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Are brexit supporters just less flexible in their mindset?"

The one's on here - less flexible.

Those I know in real life who were 'I don't really want to leave but I cannot see a way around the problems raised by EU membership' are far more flexible. Many I know say they would be happy with a Norway/iceland style model.

*prepares to hear the autistic screeching of leavers*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny thing democracy:

UK 60 million people

UK MP's 650

Leave 17.4 million

Tory MP's 300+

Hard brexit Tory MP'S 62

So percentage wise:

29% of the population want to leave.

less than 10% hard brexit Tory MP'S in parliament.

20% of Tory ranks are hard brexit

So the tail is wagging the dog at every opportunity. Democracy - strange isn't it when you analyse it.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Funny thing democracy:

UK 60 million people

UK MP's 650

Leave 17.4 million

Tory MP's 300+

Hard brexit Tory MP'S 62

So percentage wise:

29% of the population want to leave.

less than 10% hard brexit Tory MP'S in parliament.

20% of Tory ranks are hard brexit

So the tail is wagging the dog at every opportunity. Democracy - strange isn't it when you analyse it.

And the public confidence in the UK of this Conservative caused brexit mess is at shockingly low levels.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Funny thing democracy:

UK 60 million people

UK MP's 650

Leave 17.4 million

Tory MP's 300+

Hard brexit Tory MP'S 62

So percentage wise:

29% of the population want to leave.

less than 10% hard brexit Tory MP'S in parliament.

20% of Tory ranks are hard brexit

So the tail is wagging the dog at every opportunity. Democracy - strange isn't it when you analyse it.

That doesn't make any of the decisions less legitimate though.

Bear in mind that the UK voting population is actually about 46 million.

It does not, however, change the fact that democracy does not empower a small majority to dictate the terms of such a fundamental change.

Yes I will argue that 4% is a SMALL majority. 1.4 million is a large number of people but it is a small proportion of all of those who voted. That's what percentages indicate. If anyone believes that 4 is a big proportion of 100 please feel free to define large and small with an alternate truth.

For a democracy to function, the majority has to account for the needs of minority groups. When that minority is a almost half the population that makes it all theoretical important.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Are brexit supporters just less flexible in their mindset?

The one's on here - less flexible.

*prepares to hear the autistic screeching of leavers*"
wow autistic screeching u sunk to a low level there mate wtf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny thing democracy:

UK 60 million people

UK MP's 650

Leave 17.4 million

Tory MP's 300+

Hard brexit Tory MP'S 62

So percentage wise:

29% of the population want to leave.

less than 10% hard brexit Tory MP'S in parliament.

20% of Tory ranks are hard brexit

So the tail is wagging the dog at every opportunity. Democracy - strange isn't it when you analyse it.

That doesn't make any of the decisions less legitimate though.

Bear in mind that the UK voting population is actually about 46 million.

It does not, however, change the fact that democracy does not empower a small majority to dictate the terms of such a fundamental change.

For a democracy to function, the majority has to account for the needs of minority groups. When that minority is a almost half the population that makes it all theoretical important."

46 million then it's 37.8%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brexiters should make all the decisions regarding brexit.Its their baby not mine.Not sure if that makes me flexible or not.Probably apathetic.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Brexiters should make all the decisions regarding brexit.Its their baby not mine.Not sure if that makes me flexible or not.Probably apathetic.

Apathetic or not, would you have some flexibility, upon the quality of the situation, as it stands now, or at deal offer time, irrespective of how you voted?

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By *eefyBangerMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

However, the P.M. has had a letter from 62 MP's laying out what they want.

They at least have put it in writing and if this is the stance then the EU are going to have to back down big time.

If they don't we won't have a transition deal, in fact any deal. So big unknown territory, but time will tell."

But... and it's a massive but... You say the EU are going to have to "back down" big time over our MP's demands if our PM decides to act upon them, that's blind faith that a no deal outcome will be far more damaging to 27 EU countries than it will be to us, just 1 country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brexiters should make all the decisions regarding brexit.Its their baby not mine.Not sure if that makes me flexible or not.Probably apathetic.

Apathetic or not, would you have some flexibility, upon the quality of the situation, as it stands now, or at deal offer time, irrespective of how you voted?

"
Yes I'm flexible on that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU"

The world has changed, just a little since 1973, we had a good manufacturing base back then but slowly over time our economy has changed dramatically to capture a forefront position economically within the EU, mainly in the services / financial sectors which will suffer incredibly with leaving.

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU"

It’s 2018 things have changed dramatically since the 70s the world and life is not like it used to be

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By *eefyBangerMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries "

Sounds good but won’t happen

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries "

Do you even understand what you are saying and in fact how being in the EU protects us from the very globalisation issues that concern you?

It is truly frightening that you voted to stand alone in a globalised world that we can’t compete in and voted to leave the Union of Nations that protects all European countries from the excesses of globalisation.

Your concerns are valid, you just voted the wrong way to address them.

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By *eefyBangerMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries

Do you even understand what you are saying and in fact how being in the EU protects us from the very globalisation issues that concern you?

Your concerns are valid, you just voted the wrong way to address them."

Aye ok then

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries

Do you even understand what you are saying and in fact how being in the EU protects us from the very globalisation issues that concern you?

Your concerns are valid, you just voted the wrong way to address them.

Aye ok then

Do you understand the primary reasons that manufacturing has centralized?

Scale - the more of something you can make the cheaper it will be. For that reason a set of related industries will congregate in specific locations

Cost - location close to resource and large markets reduces cost. One of the biggest costs is labour.

We are putting ourselves outside every single large market.

We do not want low wages.

We have no significant raw material resource.

We have scale in hi tech industries which require components from...abroad!

Give us your plan. It sounds really easy the way you put it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They have no plan, just a mantra

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I don't have a judgement on Brexit yet because I cannot see what it looks like.

We are living in a vacuum and will be fot a while.

I suspect Britain will try to "muddle through"' and it will be like peering into a kaledieoscope that keeps turning.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"They have no plan, just a mantra "

Plucky Liitle England standing up heroically against imaginary European bogeymen.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

You mean plucky little uk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If Brexit goes ahead and we break clean away from the EU like the vast majority of leavers want and somehow we manage to change over night our main economic asset towards our GDP "Services" which accounts for 80% of GDP and it's a roaring success then I will be the first to say I voted wrong to remain.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries "

Got a few £billions to invest speculatively, based on expertise that's potentially lost, still cheaper in other countries, or you'll also educate and train people, whilst building your infrastructure? No problems there then

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"I don't have a judgement on Brexit yet because I cannot see what it looks like.

We are living in a vacuum and will be fot a while.

I suspect Britain will try to "muddle through"' and it will be like peering into a kaledieoscope that keeps turning."

You're flexible then?

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Who else is going to declare their level of flexibility? How're your cognitive and emotional abilities to process alternative viewpoints, progressively updated situational data etc? Cognitively flexibility has been shown to decline with age, so is your age becoming more of a limiting factor, compared to more youthful people?

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

To add to the deal ...with the 62 mps and a bad may elections .who thinks Mrs May will still be pm by June xxx

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By *eefyBangerMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

"To add to the deal ...with the 62 mps and a bad may elections .who thinks Mrs May will still be pm by June xxx"

With any luck Jacob Reese Mogg will be in number 10 soon enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To add to the deal ...with the 62 mps and a bad may elections .who thinks Mrs May will still be pm by June xxx

With any luck Jacob Reese Mogg will be in number 10 soon enough"

Nope. Nope. Nope.

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By *utandbigMan
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"To add to the deal ...with the 62 mps and a bad may elections .who thinks Mrs May will still be pm by June xxx

With any luck Jacob Reese Mogg will be in number 10 soon enough"

Ile go one further nope nope nope nope

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

It’s 2018 things have changed dramatically since the 70s the world and life is not like it used to be "

You may want to try telling Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnel that as they want to take the UK back to the 1970's lock, Stock and barrel. Corbyn and McDonnel are still living in the 70's and their policies reflect it. Renationalisation of everything and trade unions calling strikes left, right and centre, a 3 day week and power cuts, this is what life would be like under a Corbyn Labour government.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

And why has the manufacturing changed dramatically since then? Because everything's been sent abroad for cheaper labour

Start working for ourselves and grow our own economy rather than other countries

Do you even understand what you are saying and in fact how being in the EU protects us from the very globalisation issues that concern you?

Your concerns are valid, you just voted the wrong way to address them."

So you're admitting the EU is a protectionist bloc then. Your comments seem to suggest you're in favour of protectionism as you're a firm supporter of the EU. On the other hand though you continually trash Donald Trump for his protectionist policies in the USA so you seem to be very confused on the issue? Are you in favour of protectionism or are you against it because you seem to contradict yourself on this issue time and time again on this forum.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

It’s 2018 things have changed dramatically since the 70s the world and life is not like it used to be

You want us to leave the EU. You want us to return to the Commonwealth. You want to remove all the regulations that protect worker's rights and safety standards. You want the reverse of immigration.

Who did you say wants to take the UK back to the 70's?

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

It’s 2018 things have changed dramatically since the 70s the world and life is not like it used to be

And the proof for this specious argument is what exactly?

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

As this thread is about your flexibility, I'm not seeing your posts on that.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We managed fine before we joined the EU. We'll manage fine once we leave the EU

It’s 2018 things have changed dramatically since the 70s the world and life is not like it used to be

And the proof for this specious argument is what exactly?"

Just take a look at the Labour party manifesto.

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By *ustJ0dieTV/TS
over a year ago

Burton

I'm pretty inflexible in that it was a shit way to make such a monumental decision. And that even if we get to vote on the terms it's going to be a vote for bad terms, or worse terms.

So where brexiters don't seem to care if they are inflicting decades of problems on their own families, I don't care if my attitude exacerbates those problems. I'm not working to help unfuck this for them.

I left my job because I was sick of fixing faults with out of date systems.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think that's Centaur saying he's inflexible and Jodie that she has some flexibility as well as desire for inflexibility too.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Still not seen many people demonstrate their willingness and abilities to be flexible

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Brexit supporters, do you have this cognitive flexibility?

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EU / UK - your flexibility