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"boz, bojo, the fat controller or what ever he's called, just about strung together a disjointed series of vacuous platitudes ... standard" What worries me is voters think he is clever !!! Bumbeling Boris is not an act he really is that thick !!! LBC radio which I find very right wing played a montage of many of the completely stupid things he has said. If it was not for his connections he would not be trusted to sweep the streets !!! | |||
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"Serial liar and self-interested politician that's out of control. No hesitation in doing anything, at any cost to others, to pursue his own agenda. The propaganda methodologies that worked well for our enemies will happily be used against the UK population. Some will be stupid enough to get caught by them. Repeats lies often : do not believe them. Man of limited capability and seemingly not very bright, spouts streams of shit, although he'll do very nicely, as someone with financial assets well above the levels of the electorate." I disagree. He is clever. Very clever. He understands what he is doing and the consequences of his actions. He does not, however, have any real beliefs or desire to apply his abilities to anything except for his own advancement. What he is counting on is that the British people are stupid and still sufficiently class ridden to believe what they are told by someone from the upper class who claims to be on their side. There is never any verifiable data. It's belief and emotion. Nothing more. That is far, far worse than him being stupid. | |||
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"boz, bojo, the fat controller or what ever he's called, just about strung together a disjointed series of vacuous platitudes ... standard What worries me is voters think he is clever !!! Bumbeling Boris is not an act he really is that thick !!! LBC radio which I find very right wing played a montage of many of the completely stupid things he has said. If it was not for his connections he would not be trusted to sweep the streets !!!" James O'Brien, Alex Salmond, Majid Nawaz, Sheila Fogherty, Steve Allen, Beverly Turner, Clive Bull. Right wing bastards... | |||
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"I am waiting for Centaur and Cask's glowing reviews which will emphasise all of the "facts" that Boris presented based on the clear evidence of him saying them "How sad that you sit here waiting for people to post comments. 
I haven't actually heard Boris's speech yet as I've been at work all day. Will listen to it when I've got some spare time. | |||
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"I am waiting for Centaur and Cask's glowing reviews which will emphasise all of the "facts" that Boris presented based on the clear evidence of him saying them
How sad that you sit here waiting for people to post comments.
I haven't actually heard Boris's speech yet as I've been at work all day. Will listen to it when I've got some spare time. "Hilarious and worthwhile comment
You have already obliged by answering the dog whistle.
It's interesting that you have been instructed to no longer tell remainers that they lost and should get over it.
It seems that you should also be acknowledging that remain voters are not talking Britain down but they have taken this stance because they think it's best for the country.
I'm very interested to see if you are able to finally acknowledge that.
It's almost as if it's becoming apparent that 4% is not an overwhelming majority and that this situation requires consensus not imposition.
It's almost as if there is a realisation that being angry and growling at everyone that asks difficult questions or disagrees isn't a great plan.
Beyond that there's really nothing new. High on hyperbole, low on content | |||
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"I am waiting for Centaur and Cask's glowing reviews which will emphasise all of the "facts" that Boris presented based on the clear evidence of him saying them
How sad that you sit here waiting for people to post comments.
I haven't actually heard Boris's speech yet as I've been at work all day. Will listen to it when I've got some spare time. "ive been at the gym most of the afternoon, and now washed up and heading out to the local for a few beers, will catch up on all this at a later date have a nice evening on fab boys & girls, If off to the local  | |||
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"Every Brexiters Favourite News Source has a good headline. RT... Valentine’s Day massacre: Boris Johnson Brexit speech mercilessly mocked as ‘backward clap-trap’ " Having generated chaos by supporting Brexit they are generating more by disrupting it. Clever Ruskies. | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much?" As a matter of interest the Hard Brexiters choice for next PM is a Homophobic Minister by the name of Jacob Rees Mogg: It seems to me that you really are the proverbial turkey voting for Christmas. Nothing that these ideologues represent are aligned with the choices you appear to be making in life. | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much?" The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. | |||
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"It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much?" it's evident the content and purpose of the Fat Controllers speech regarding brextremists not being abusive or threatening to remain voters was completely lost on you | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. " So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards | |||
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"It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? it's evident the content and purpose of the Fat Controllers speech regarding brextremists not being abusive or threatening to remain voters was completely lost on you " No it was not I am sure of that it was to mild a speech in my view | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards" Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. | |||
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"It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? it's evident the content and purpose of the Fat Controllers speech regarding brextremists not being abusive or threatening to remain voters was completely lost on you. No it was not I am sure of that it was to mild a speech in my view" the abusive tone and threats in your post which i quoted prove otherwise | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.." The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic" Usual combination of untruths and jingoistic bolloxs from the usual posters. | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic" What a load of tripe from you As usual your sounding like the fat controller more and more PATHETIC | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic" Your usual morning troll eh Cask.. No substance and little effort to actually engage in the debate.. | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic Your usual morning troll eh Cask.. No substance and little effort to actually engage in the debate.. " perhaps but also true and straight to the point | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic Your usual morning troll eh Cask.. No substance and little effort to actually engage in the debate.. perhaps but also true and straight to the point" In your mind trolling mind | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much? The Eu like anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the actual reality that is a divided cabinet in a Government with no clear plan and thus far a complete lack of any cohesive strategy.. this speech today is Boris trying to polish the turd that thus far is the Tory government in its handling of the vote.. How dumb are you that you suggest that anyone who voted to remain would not want the best for themselves and their loved ones, its the very reason that many voted to remain as that direction is or was the best for the UK in their opinion.. So exept the inevitable and try to make it a success better for all of us. Oh easy to criticise the Tories but Labour sits on the fence and goes on about animals in rented property.Not quite as important they are just cowards Who on here has said they don't accept it? Whether its a success or not (and again there has been no one on either side saying they do not want or hope that there will be success, which is another baseless chuck away comment by some who voted to leave) and how long that success will be in the making and for whom is beyond the type of cheering huzzah and flag waving that some seem to expect will help things along.. it's bizarre that anyone would think that will affect the decisions that will or may be taken by the businesses and trading partners be they new or existing which will along with the entrepreneur's and innovators that will come to the fore at such times.. it will be those decisions that will affect this success.. of course Labour are sat on the fence as would the Tories be if they were in opposition now and the same clusterfuck going on, they are sitting and watching their main rivals tear themselves apart.. The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic Your usual morning troll eh Cask.. No substance and little effort to actually engage in the debate.. perhaps but also true and straight to the point" Wrong again.. But thanks for confirming my above.. 
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"But if one did you would have no one to talk to in your lonely fantasy world.. "And you wouldent be able to try and bully people if we all left | |||
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"But if one did you would have no one to talk to in your lonely fantasy world..
And you wouldent be able to try and bully people if we all left "bully people you think by pulling you up on what you say is bullying lol best pretty boys like you never work offshore on oilrigs if you cant take some hard talk  | |||
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"But if one did you would have no one to talk to in your lonely fantasy world..
And you wouldent be able to try and bully people if we all left
bully people
you think by pulling you up on what you say is bullying lol
best pretty boys like you never work offshore on oilrigs if you cant take some hard talk
"See there you go again Your so used to it you have no idea your doing it Every one says the same in here about you Do you have any friends in real life Plus you don’t no nothing about me Big hard oil rig man | |||
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"But if one did you would have no one to talk to in your lonely fantasy world..
And you wouldent be able to try and bully people if we all left
bully people
you think by pulling you up on what you say is bullying lol
best pretty boys like you never work offshore on oilrigs if you cant take some hard talk
See there you go again
Your so used to it you have no idea your doing it
Every one says the same in here about you
Do you have any friends in real life
Plus you don’t no nothing about me
Big hard oil rig man
"cant be me your talking about, im a retired pensioner
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seems you are always keen to reply, do you have an addiction for trying to be so smug. lol
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you will be trying so so hard not to reply to this, but you will give in | |||
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"But if one did you would have no one to talk to in your lonely fantasy world..
And you wouldent be able to try and bully people if we all left
bully people
you think by pulling you up on what you say is bullying lol
best pretty boys like you never work offshore on oilrigs if you cant take some hard talk
See there you go again
Your so used to it you have no idea your doing it
Every one says the same in here about you
Do you have any friends in real life
Plus you don’t no nothing about me
Big hard oil rig man
cant be me your talking about, im a retired pensioner
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seems you are always keen to reply, do you have an addiction for trying to be so smug. lol
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you will be trying so so hard not to reply to this, but you will give in "Yes ile reply because bully that you are allways have the last word But I feel better now that you no people on here think your a. - - - - - - Ile leave you with the word they all call you behind your back try and guess | |||
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"the speech was planned as part of a series of speeches from various part members.One of which will from the PM. It was solid enough,it is to show a united plan to Europe.It is not meant to change the minds of the non democratc remainers who want brexit to fail.Well it will happen and unless your completely thick and shortsighted you will work towards its success otherwise you will make life worse for you and your families,do you hate your own kids that much?" Let me put this plain and simple. The you lost we won mentaility, coupled with you're either with us or against us on brexit mindset people have will be brexit's own undooing, long or short term. To explain. Keep calling remainers undemocratic when those who accrpted the result and want brexit to improve peoples lives, are just being involved in democracy by pointing out issues to raise - which we are democratically entitled to do, keep nsme calling us as undemocratic and you'll eventually get us protest voting directly ahainst brexit. You either involve everyone, or you cut them off and isolate them. Also bollocks was it robust. No thoughts on how to actually increase the amounts of jobs for life, nothing about social housibg numbers, about a new education or NHS reform...you know all the key issues which people has pointed to as the root cause for brexit. Just more of the same 'unite around an image' side not the image will be dictated to you by the tories, you riff raff don't get any imput into it. If brexit is to be a success, the public need to say what they feel is not functioning in the nation, and the government needs to tailor brexit around that. | |||
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"I think this thread might of turned on lots of gay men with its talk of big tough oil men alone out at sea wth pretty boys. It got me wondering about those cold winter nights on oil rigs... "why do you think all the females panties, bras and stockings go missing in the laundry | |||
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"Reflecting further on that speech. It was very, very clear to me that there is now absolutely no doubt in the mind of Boris that the UK is intent on leaving the SM and CU. Any hint of doubt or suspicion was laid to rest by his words. So, on that note then there were two huge omissions from his speech. 1) What then would be the consequences for Northern Ireland? (Could we take as a hint the subsequent late-night statements by the DUP that the power-sharing deal in N Ireland was still a million miles away?) 2) What will be the actual mechanics and detailed vision of this "free" United Kingdom that is happening in just 12 months time? As per my original thoughts as I was listening to it - it almost seemed half-hearted because it was only about emotion and was completely lacking in convincing detail." Agree.. That's been Boris all his political career, the challenge was it seems to may and the others who want pragmatism.. Boris wants like some on here to be able to say we did it even if that is on the back of economic chaos.. Which he and mogg etc are protected from.. | |||
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"I voted out and Im proud I voted out especially when you see how much the remoaners keep on throwing their rattles out of their prams .this is democratic country . we all had a vote .we got a result .learn to deal with it . I voted against the common market when so many lies were being spread way back then . all the no's back then didn't spread the crap that's being spouted now . its time everyone in this country accepted it ." You got a result, yes - but no-one has a clue what to do about it. Where is the plan, the strategy? There is none now and there was none then. That, I think, is what most people are upset about - that those who have taken us down this path have shown they ain't got a clue what they are doing. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x" Yes growth prosperity and equality x And we know where brexit is going too into a state of farce x | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x" Every remainder I know, and throughout the campaign EVERY remain campaigner, talk about staying in a 'reformed EU'. And when you ask them what that means, they haven't got a clue. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x Yes growth prosperity and equality x And we know where brexit is going too into a state of farce x " I doubt Monty python could have bettered the brexiters comedic disaster that we've witnessed. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x" The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement." im sure I put a cross in the leave box I am most certainly not english | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. im sure I put a cross in the leave box I am most certainly not english "Years of subservient behaviour is hard to shake off.. worked with you then.. Doff your cap as you voted too I bet.. | |||
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"Oh no we will be back to the leavers all being racists in a mo...keep moaning non believers ....support the great UK...we voted out so out we go ....yes xx" Interesting you said non believers.I always thought of you lot like a religious cult... | |||
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"I am waiting for Centaur and Cask's glowing reviews which will emphasise all of the "facts" that Boris presented based on the clear evidence of him saying them
How sad that you sit here waiting for people to post comments.
I haven't actually heard Boris's speech yet as I've been at work all day. Will listen to it when I've got some spare time. "Don't flatter yourself | |||
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"Oh no we will be back to the leavers all being racists in a mo...keep moaning non believers ....support the great UK...we voted out so out we go ....yes xx" If the deal offer is a pile of shit - you are welcome to jump into it but it's not appropriate for the sovereignty of the UK to want to join you in your playtime. | |||
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"Was the deal to stay any better than a pile of shit ....sometimes have balls be a leader not a follower ..u never know it might just be good ...viva great Britain lol xx" well said | |||
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"Was the deal to stay any better than a pile of shit ....sometimes have balls be a leader not a follower ..u never know it might just be good ...viva great Britain lol xx" You said you needed to believe.Sounds like followers to me.Like sheep. | |||
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"Oh no we will be back to the leavers all being racists in a mo...keep moaning non believers ....support the great UK...we voted out so out we go ....yes xx" Well you made your feelings clear as I recall... “I’m voting leave just on immigration” | |||
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"Oh no we will be back to the leavers all being racists in a mo...keep moaning non believers ....support the great UK...we voted out so out we go ....yes xx Well you made your feelings clear as I recall... “I’m voting leave just on immigration”" thought you initially voted to remain _oo hot, but then we are all leavers now, every one of us | |||
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"Correct barrrrrrr lol xx" But last week you told us that you voted Remain but have now changed your mind because of how mean and wicked the EU are being to Theresa May and David Davis. | |||
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"We are not all brexiturds. They'll flush us all down the shitter... "come on now bob, you are fully aware that even if you voted remain, you and now a leaver, the same as us all accept it 
look into my eyes
accept it | |||
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"We are not all brexiturds. They'll flush us all down the shitter...
come on now bob, you are fully aware that even if you voted remain, you and now a leaver, the same as us all
accept it
look into my eyes
accept it "I can't be complicit with your racial hatred dude I got black skin in the game...You know this grandpa...You good old boys will start hooping and a hollering and lynching my blood given the chance.  | |||
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"We are not all brexiturds. They'll flush us all down the shitter...
come on now bob, you are fully aware that even if you voted remain, you and now a leaver, the same as us all
accept it
look into my eyes
accept it
I can't be complicit with your racial hatred dude I got black skin in the game...You know this grandpa...You good old boys will start hooping and a hollering and lynching my blood given the chance. "stop playing the race card bob, it gets you no place, im not long back from Hawaii, my skin is darker than yours see the palm tree in the pic, that's sunset beach North shore Oahu | |||
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"We are not all brexiturds. They'll flush us all down the shitter...
come on now bob, you are fully aware that even if you voted remain, you and now a leaver, the same as us all
accept it
look into my eyes
accept it
I can't be complicit with your racial hatred dude I got black skin in the game...You know this grandpa...You good old boys will start hooping and a hollering and lynching my blood given the chance.
stop playing the race card bob, it gets you no place,
im not long back from Hawaii, my skin is darker than yours
see the palm tree in the pic, that's sunset beach North shore Oahu "Come now grandpa let it out..You know you want to... | |||
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"Interesting. The only new piece of information and clarification in all of Boris' nonsense was to accept that remainers may be motivated to do the best for their country and telling them that they lost, should get over it and should not moan probably isn't helpful. Almost every Brexit response on this thread has stated some variation on all of those points. Well done, very constructive "just proves that the brextremists don't agree with the content and purpose of the Fat Controllers speech either basically no-one agrees with him and as a result, Boz has proved himself utterly irrelevant .... no change there then | |||
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"Was the deal to stay any better than a pile of shit ....sometimes have balls be a leader not a follower ..u never know it might just be good ...viva great Britain lol xx" "You never know" is not a plan to gamble the country's future on. Oh wait, yes it is | |||
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" The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic" Beautifully misrepresented as always. You have spent far too much time reading headlines with exclamation marks at the end
I certainly do not put other country's needs before our own. You appear to have a zero-sum view of the world where someone has to lose for you to win. Mutually beneficial relationships are far more productive, especially in an interconnected world. Be nice when you are on the way up or in power because you'll want people to do the same for you.
You're actually the only person on here who consistently shows his admiration for a foreign power.
You demonstrate your inability to empathise again and again. It's a weakness, not a strength that you cannot see someone else's position. You are unable to see the positives of their view. You also display with vain-glorious pride an unwillingness to critically look at your own opinions.
Are you suggesting that I want to retire abroad Cask? I have never expressed the slightest inclination to do so.
Don't worry I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge an error | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement." And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! | |||
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"Gamble may be bigger to stay in ..a bunch of unelected ...fat cats who don't know where to spend money next ...plus only 7 of 27 members pay in to support the other scroungers ....better on our own ..u never know with hard work and support it may work ....if it does the eu won't last 5 years in its present form xx" We've been through the EU institutions before. They mirror our own. The Comission is our Civil Service. The Council of Ministers (sent by elected national governments) is our Cabinet and the European Parliament (directly elected) is the same as ours. We transfer wealth from the haves to the have-nots here too. We should probably do more within the UK. Ultimately it benefits everyone if the poor have opportunities for health education and development because they become more involved and more prosperous, helping the entire economy. Doing this EU wide is just scaling-up to countries and the economy of Europe as a whole. You can be angry, but then be consistent. If how Europe is governed is crap then so is how we are so there is no benefit to "taking back control" is there? | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue!" What's "the plan" for the UK? | |||
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" The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic Beautifully misrepresented as always. You have spent far too much time reading headlines with exclamation marks at the end
I certainly do not put other country's needs before our own. You appear to have a zero-sum view of the world where someone has to lose for you to win. Mutually beneficial relationships are far more productive, especially in an interconnected world. Be nice when you are on the way up or in power because you'll want people to do the same for you.
You're actually the only person on here who consistently shows his admiration for a foreign power.
You demonstrate your inability to empathise again and again. It's a weakness, not a strength that you cannot see someone else's position. You are unable to see the positives of their view. You also display with vain-glorious pride an unwillingness to critically look at your own opinions.
Are you suggesting that I want to retire abroad Cask? I have never expressed the slightest inclination to do so.
Don't worry I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge an error "think very carefully as you did 100% agree with another poster with regards to retiring abroad perhaps your memory is short | |||
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" The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic Beautifully misrepresented as always. You have spent far too much time reading headlines with exclamation marks at the end
I certainly do not put other country's needs before our own. You appear to have a zero-sum view of the world where someone has to lose for you to win. Mutually beneficial relationships are far more productive, especially in an interconnected world. Be nice when you are on the way up or in power because you'll want people to do the same for you.
You're actually the only person on here who consistently shows his admiration for a foreign power.
You demonstrate your inability to empathise again and again. It's a weakness, not a strength that you cannot see someone else's position. You are unable to see the positives of their view. You also display with vain-glorious pride an unwillingness to critically look at your own opinions.
Are you suggesting that I want to retire abroad Cask? I have never expressed the slightest inclination to do so.
Don't worry I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge an error
think very carefully
as you did 100% agree with another poster with regards to retiring abroad
perhaps your memory is short"I am definitely retiring abroad.I need sunshine in my old age. Did I miss a new rule were remainers can't retire abroad.Id be more surprised if brexiters wanted to leave the EU then go live in the EU when retired.. | |||
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" The majority on here do not accept brexit . sad to see you all put other countries before the UK . oh but then as many said, most back remain as they want to retire abroad like "easy" . pathetic Beautifully misrepresented as always. You have spent far too much time reading headlines with exclamation marks at the end
I certainly do not put other country's needs before our own. You appear to have a zero-sum view of the world where someone has to lose for you to win. Mutually beneficial relationships are far more productive, especially in an interconnected world. Be nice when you are on the way up or in power because you'll want people to do the same for you.
You're actually the only person on here who consistently shows his admiration for a foreign power.
You demonstrate your inability to empathise again and again. It's a weakness, not a strength that you cannot see someone else's position. You are unable to see the positives of their view. You also display with vain-glorious pride an unwillingness to critically look at your own opinions.
Are you suggesting that I want to retire abroad Cask? I have never expressed the slightest inclination to do so.
Don't worry I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge an error
think very carefully
as you did 100% agree with another poster with regards to retiring abroad
perhaps your memory is short"Yawn. Finding another detail to argue over rather than address any substantive point. Go ahead and correct my memory | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK?" The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK? The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'." False premise. The UK has been around for several hundred years. The UN has been in existence since the end of WWII. NATO has been around for some time too. What are there "plans"? Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point. If something doesn't work you fix it with debate and negotiations. It's exactly what's supposed to happen in the UK. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK? The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'. False premise. The UK has been around for several hundred years. The UN has been in existence since the end of WWII. NATO has been around for some time too. What are there "plans"? Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point. If something doesn't work you fix it with debate and negotiations. It's exactly what's supposed to happen in the UK."
So right.
Wanting plans? Of course, some of these people could go and find a multitude of plans that are out there and publicly accessible.
One plan that's been absent for some time, despite the public and the EU requesting it, is what the UK wants in the Brexit deal. And the timetable for the deal agreement leaves just a few weeks left. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK? The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'. False premise. The UK has been around for several hundred years. The UN has been in existence since the end of WWII. NATO has been around for some time too. What are there "plans"? Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point. If something doesn't work you fix it with debate and negotiations. It's exactly what's supposed to happen in the UK.
So right.
Wanting plans? Of course, some of these people could go and find a multitude of plans that are out there and publicly accessible.
One plan that's been absent for some time, despite the public and the EU requesting it, is what the UK wants in the Brexit deal. And the timetable for the deal agreement leaves just a few weeks left. "I always thought that the BREXIT plan was to stand on The White Cliffs at Dover and wave two fingers at the EU and any other Jonny Foreigner the other side of The Channel but BoJo says that's not the plan at all. From what's happened so far I think the plan must be to give all control of our rules and regulations to Brussels and give up our right to have any say or veto over those rules when they are being discussed and decided on. Seems a funny way to take back control to me but, as long as you call it BREXIT, it seems to be keeping the leavers happy. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK? The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'. False premise. The UK has been around for several hundred years. The UN has been in existence since the end of WWII. NATO has been around for some time too. What are there "plans"? Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point. If something doesn't work you fix it with debate and negotiations. It's exactly what's supposed to happen in the UK.
So right.
Wanting plans? Of course, some of these people could go and find a multitude of plans that are out there and publicly accessible.
One plan that's been absent for some time, despite the public and the EU requesting it, is what the UK wants in the Brexit deal. And the timetable for the deal agreement leaves just a few weeks left.
I always thought that the BREXIT plan was to stand on The White Cliffs at Dover and wave two fingers at the EU and any other Jonny Foreigner the other side of The Channel but BoJo says that's not the plan at all. From what's happened so far I think the plan must be to give all control of our rules and regulations to Brussels and give up our right to have any say or veto over those rules when they are being discussed and decided on. Seems a funny way to take back control to me but, as long as you call it BREXIT, it seems to be keeping the leavers happy."No. As we all know, Brexit means Brexit. Or is it, Brexit means F All? | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK? The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'. False premise. The UK has been around for several hundred years. The UN has been in existence since the end of WWII. NATO has been around for some time too. What are there "plans"? Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point. If something doesn't work you fix it with debate and negotiations. It's exactly what's supposed to happen in the UK.
So right.
Wanting plans? Of course, some of these people could go and find a multitude of plans that are out there and publicly accessible.
One plan that's been absent for some time, despite the public and the EU requesting it, is what the UK wants in the Brexit deal. And the timetable for the deal agreement leaves just a few weeks left.
I always thought that the BREXIT plan was to stand on The White Cliffs at Dover and wave two fingers at the EU and any other Jonny Foreigner the other side of The Channel but BoJo says that's not the plan at all. From what's happened so far I think the plan must be to give all control of our rules and regulations to Brussels and give up our right to have any say or veto over those rules when they are being discussed and decided on. Seems a funny way to take back control to me but, as long as you call it BREXIT, it seems to be keeping the leavers happy.
No. As we all know, Brexit means Brexit. Or is it, Brexit means F All? "Seems like an awful lot of cofidel just to have no control over our rules and regulations. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stay as we were and abstain from voting at the EU Council and Parliament meetings or better still just not turn up? Would have had the same result and a lot less confusion and fiddling all round. | |||
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"Did the remoaners have any better idea where the whole eu were/are going then ..x The EU was going where its partner, member states (like the UK) were taking it. This kind of encapsulates the Brexitology mindset. You cant even accept foreigners as equals in a partnership. To you, they have to be subjugated like the Welsh, the Scots, and the Irish. You don't have problems with Unions of Nations as long as no one has equality or more control than the English. Brexit is the last stand of white, English entitlement. And where was/is the plan if were it's going? Because your answer basically says you haven't a clue! What's "the plan" for the UK? The EU has had 40 years to draw up a 'plan', and remainers haven't a clue what it is. Says a lot about the EU, and remainers. Not one remainer can say what is meant by "EU Reform", although I expect the mantra may well be 'Reform means Reform'. False premise. The UK has been around for several hundred years. The UN has been in existence since the end of WWII. NATO has been around for some time too. What are there "plans"? Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point. If something doesn't work you fix it with debate and negotiations. It's exactly what's supposed to happen in the UK.
So right.
Wanting plans? Of course, some of these people could go and find a multitude of plans that are out there and publicly accessible.
One plan that's been absent for some time, despite the public and the EU requesting it, is what the UK wants in the Brexit deal. And the timetable for the deal agreement leaves just a few weeks left.
I always thought that the BREXIT plan was to stand on The White Cliffs at Dover and wave two fingers at the EU and any other Jonny Foreigner the other side of The Channel but BoJo says that's not the plan at all. From what's happened so far I think the plan must be to give all control of our rules and regulations to Brussels and give up our right to have any say or veto over those rules when they are being discussed and decided on. Seems a funny way to take back control to me but, as long as you call it BREXIT, it seems to be keeping the leavers happy.
No. As we all know, Brexit means Brexit. Or is it, Brexit means F All?
Seems like an awful lot of cofidel just to have no control over our rules and regulations. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stay as we were and abstain from voting at the EU Council and Parliament meetings or better still just not turn up? Would have had the same result and a lot less confusion and fiddling all round."Some people like doing things the hard way, or to rebel | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. " I think it's fairly standard within any large group that you'll find extremely diverse opinions and ideas. As long as the government follows evidenced based policies, then they are likely to be able to explain why they're not just pursuing anything for the sake of it. | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. " Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan? | |||
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"Oh no we will be back to the leavers all being racists in a mo...keep moaning non believers ....support the great UK...we voted out so out we go ....yes xx" Said the lemming..... | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan? "I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point? As to things that need changing in the EU? The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it. How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember. And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back? Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum? | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
"I think you are missing the point on immigration! The problem being is that we (Europe) are getting too many economic migrants. You have to ask the question why are they coming? They want a better life? Hence if you improve their chances in their own country you will slow it down - not stop it. Having said that the Brits have always been doing exactly the same. In the 70's we Brits went to Saudi, worked for 5yrs pay NO tax and come back and pay off the mortgage. No different, even now people sell up in UK buy a place in Spain and France pay no income tax to the host country but they are not migrants they are "expats". Well after 2019 they will be ailens! As far as changes to the EU yes I agree, it does need change. There should only be 1 parliament - needs sorting. The EU needs updating just like all the "old institutions " NATO, U.N. etc. The CAP does keep prices higher, but it protects jobs in farming. Right or wrong, it depends on which side of the problem you view it. Brexit will give some idea when we slash our tariffs so cheap food from all over the world can flood in. Let's see what they does for our farmers. Finally what about the Amazon's, Starbucks etc making millions of PROFIT in the UK and paying very little tax? That's the world's problem today. As the great American leader has done slash taxes for commerce yes more jobs but zero hour contracts, I thought slavery was abolished 200yrs ago. Nothing is perfect! | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
"Once we have a starting point then the process of being a country will change. New trade deals are going to be a matter of ongoing development aren't they? However, the negotiation to start our brave New future has an end point doesn't it? What do we want from that? That does require a plan. Cake and eat it does not appear to be viable funnily enough... You don't appear to understand fully at all. I have conceded completely that there are all manner of things that need improvement in the EU. Do I know how? No. Do you know how to balance the UK budget deficit or cure cancer? You have not made any effort to respond to the parallels that I have drawn with other international institutions and the UK itself. Who has a plan for eternity? Does the UK need a plan too or is it just the EU? The biggest objection to immigration here was that our schools, hospitals and housing couldn't cope with the sudden increase. If we had a capital fund to expand this in the short term would that solve the problem as over time normal taxation pays for ongoing costs? Please look up again how many EU laws or regulations the UK has actually objected to? Cameron negotiated in the same way as Brexit is being negotiated. Shouting loudly. He got nothing. Do you usually want to work with people who shout at you? Perhaps we should learn from that? How come you are still so angry? | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
Once we have a starting point then the process of being a country will change. New trade deals are going to be a matter of ongoing development aren't they?
However, the negotiation to start our brave New future has an end point doesn't it? What do we want from that? That does require a plan. Cake and eat it does not appear to be viable funnily enough...
You don't appear to understand fully at all.
I have conceded completely that there are all manner of things that need improvement in the EU.
Do I know how? No. Do you know how to balance the UK budget deficit or cure cancer?
You have not made any effort to respond to the parallels that I have drawn with other international institutions and the UK itself. Who has a plan for eternity?
Does the UK need a plan too or is it just the EU?
The biggest objection to immigration here was that our schools, hospitals and housing couldn't cope with the sudden increase. If we had a capital fund to expand this in the short term would that solve the problem as over time normal taxation pays for ongoing costs?
Please look up again how many EU laws or regulations the UK has actually objected to?
Cameron negotiated in the same way as Brexit is being negotiated. Shouting loudly. He got nothing. Do you usually want to work with people who shout at you? Perhaps we should learn from that?
How come you are still so angry?"I haven't shown any anger at all. All people have ever heard from remainers about immigration is that they are not a drain on any resources or infrastructure, and that they are a net financial benefit to the country....and yet you are saying the opposite! Remember the concerns people had about the potential level of immigration, and we were told that the 'experts' had crunched the numbers, and no more than 13,000 would immigrate to the UK? How did that go, and how accurate were the pro-EU expert forecasters then? Cameron didn't shout loudly at all. But he did get......nothing. You'll find that the threats and 'shouts' are coming from the likes of Barnier, juncker, at al. From before the referendum as well, not just since. Regarding the laws and regulations we have objected to? How many times have we objected to any, and they have been shelved? The end point to our negotiation is really quite simple - leaving the EU. As remainers during the campaign were so eager to point out, a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market. And the customs Union. We cannot control our laws, taxation, trade deals or immigration by staying in. Of course, we'd like access to the 'single market', and preferably tariff free. The EU was sold to us as a 'common market', for trade....not as a political state. I would have been more than happy with that. I would also be happy with the commonwealth forming a trading bloc. Bigger, by far, than the EU, and truly global. | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
Once we have a starting point then the process of being a country will change. New trade deals are going to be a matter of ongoing development aren't they?
However, the negotiation to start our brave New future has an end point doesn't it? What do we want from that? That does require a plan. Cake and eat it does not appear to be viable funnily enough...
You don't appear to understand fully at all.
I have conceded completely that there are all manner of things that need improvement in the EU.
Do I know how? No. Do you know how to balance the UK budget deficit or cure cancer?
You have not made any effort to respond to the parallels that I have drawn with other international institutions and the UK itself. Who has a plan for eternity?
Does the UK need a plan too or is it just the EU?
The biggest objection to immigration here was that our schools, hospitals and housing couldn't cope with the sudden increase. If we had a capital fund to expand this in the short term would that solve the problem as over time normal taxation pays for ongoing costs?
Please look up again how many EU laws or regulations the UK has actually objected to?
Cameron negotiated in the same way as Brexit is being negotiated. Shouting loudly. He got nothing. Do you usually want to work with people who shout at you? Perhaps we should learn from that?
How come you are still so angry?
I haven't shown any anger at all.
All people have ever heard from remainers about immigration is that they are not a drain on any resources or infrastructure, and that they are a net financial benefit to the country....and yet you are saying the opposite! Remember the concerns people had about the potential level of immigration, and we were told that the 'experts' had crunched the numbers, and no more than 13,000 would immigrate to the UK? How did that go, and how accurate were the pro-EU expert forecasters then?
Cameron didn't shout loudly at all. But he did get......nothing.
You'll find that the threats and 'shouts' are coming from the likes of Barnier, juncker, at al. From before the referendum as well, not just since.
Regarding the laws and regulations we have objected to? How many times have we objected to any, and they have been shelved?
The end point to our negotiation is really quite simple - leaving the EU. As remainers during the campaign were so eager to point out, a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market. And the customs Union. We cannot control our laws, taxation, trade deals or immigration by staying in.
Of course, we'd like access to the 'single market', and preferably tariff free.
The EU was sold to us as a 'common market', for trade....not as a political state. I would have been more than happy with that.
I would also be happy with the commonwealth forming a trading bloc. Bigger, by far, than the EU, and truly global."What I remember was the same rhetoric for the benefit of Conservative eurosceptics and UKIP supporters of sticking it to the EU. He demanded a great deal and offered nothing in return. There is a net benefit to immigration. At the very least it is neutral. There is, however, a problem of high levels of immigration in a short period in specific locations. That requires immediate investment to ramp up to meet this demand. The fact that you accuse all remainders being uncritical of the EU and immigration is no different to all leavers being accused of being racist. Interestingly, it was some, and only some, elements of the Remain campaign who threatened that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. The Leave campaign, Farage himself, said that this was not necessarily the case. Be consistent at least. As I said before, institutions grow organically. The Common Market always had the aim of a free-market which always included labour. That actually remains the situation now. By your logic then there is merit in joining EFTA. It's exactly the organisation that you claim to support. The UK never did anything that it didn't want to on these grounds. The fact that many people disagreed is a function of the way we are governed in the UK. We went to war in Iraq in the face of widespread opposition. In fact, the UK has had a huge number of exemptions and exclusions that no other member has been offered. We had the best deal in the EU and you haven't realised it. You may well be happy with a deal with the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth, however, does not care. They have huge investment from China. Why would they want an imbalanced trade relationship with a poorer and less wealthy country instead? You continue to try to simplify a complex situation and try to generalise the very specific views of a large number of people to support your opinion. There was one question on the ballot paper which allows for an almost infinite number of outcomes. Some you will like, some you will not. You are as powerless now as you were before, as am I. I have every right to continue to campaign for what I believe is best for this country and challenge leavers to actually provide any logical path to actually improving our situation. Back to the OP - has anything that Boris has said actually provided any more clarity? The evidence here is no because no Leaver has spotted anything and they have chosen to ignore the little new advice to be more diplomatic. | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
Once we have a starting point then the process of being a country will change. New trade deals are going to be a matter of ongoing development aren't they?
However, the negotiation to start our brave New future has an end point doesn't it? What do we want from that? That does require a plan. Cake and eat it does not appear to be viable funnily enough...
You don't appear to understand fully at all.
I have conceded completely that there are all manner of things that need improvement in the EU.
Do I know how? No. Do you know how to balance the UK budget deficit or cure cancer?
You have not made any effort to respond to the parallels that I have drawn with other international institutions and the UK itself. Who has a plan for eternity?
Does the UK need a plan too or is it just the EU?
The biggest objection to immigration here was that our schools, hospitals and housing couldn't cope with the sudden increase. If we had a capital fund to expand this in the short term would that solve the problem as over time normal taxation pays for ongoing costs?
Please look up again how many EU laws or regulations the UK has actually objected to?
Cameron negotiated in the same way as Brexit is being negotiated. Shouting loudly. He got nothing. Do you usually want to work with people who shout at you? Perhaps we should learn from that?
How come you are still so angry?
I haven't shown any anger at all.
All people have ever heard from remainers about immigration is that they are not a drain on any resources or infrastructure, and that they are a net financial benefit to the country....and yet you are saying the opposite! Remember the concerns people had about the potential level of immigration, and we were told that the 'experts' had crunched the numbers, and no more than 13,000 would immigrate to the UK? How did that go, and how accurate were the pro-EU expert forecasters then?
Cameron didn't shout loudly at all. But he did get......nothing.
You'll find that the threats and 'shouts' are coming from the likes of Barnier, juncker, at al. From before the referendum as well, not just since.
Regarding the laws and regulations we have objected to? How many times have we objected to any, and they have been shelved?
The end point to our negotiation is really quite simple - leaving the EU. As remainers during the campaign were so eager to point out, a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market. And the customs Union. We cannot control our laws, taxation, trade deals or immigration by staying in.
Of course, we'd like access to the 'single market', and preferably tariff free.
The EU was sold to us as a 'common market', for trade....not as a political state. I would have been more than happy with that.
I would also be happy with the commonwealth forming a trading bloc. Bigger, by far, than the EU, and truly global."I thought the commonwealth did have a trading bloc albeit a lax one? We chose Europe in the 70'a and dumped them didn't we? | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
Once we have a starting point then the process of being a country will change. New trade deals are going to be a matter of ongoing development aren't they?
However, the negotiation to start our brave New future has an end point doesn't it? What do we want from that? That does require a plan. Cake and eat it does not appear to be viable funnily enough...
You don't appear to understand fully at all.
I have conceded completely that there are all manner of things that need improvement in the EU.
Do I know how? No. Do you know how to balance the UK budget deficit or cure cancer?
You have not made any effort to respond to the parallels that I have drawn with other international institutions and the UK itself. Who has a plan for eternity?
Does the UK need a plan too or is it just the EU?
The biggest objection to immigration here was that our schools, hospitals and housing couldn't cope with the sudden increase. If we had a capital fund to expand this in the short term would that solve the problem as over time normal taxation pays for ongoing costs?
Please look up again how many EU laws or regulations the UK has actually objected to?
Cameron negotiated in the same way as Brexit is being negotiated. Shouting loudly. He got nothing. Do you usually want to work with people who shout at you? Perhaps we should learn from that?
How come you are still so angry?
I haven't shown any anger at all.
All people have ever heard from remainers about immigration is that they are not a drain on any resources or infrastructure, and that they are a net financial benefit to the country....and yet you are saying the opposite! Remember the concerns people had about the potential level of immigration, and we were told that the 'experts' had crunched the numbers, and no more than 13,000 would immigrate to the UK? How did that go, and how accurate were the pro-EU expert forecasters then?
Cameron didn't shout loudly at all. But he did get......nothing.
You'll find that the threats and 'shouts' are coming from the likes of Barnier, juncker, at al. From before the referendum as well, not just since.
Regarding the laws and regulations we have objected to? How many times have we objected to any, and they have been shelved?
The end point to our negotiation is really quite simple - leaving the EU. As remainers during the campaign were so eager to point out, a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market. And the customs Union. We cannot control our laws, taxation, trade deals or immigration by staying in.
Of course, we'd like access to the 'single market', and preferably tariff free.
The EU was sold to us as a 'common market', for trade....not as a political state. I would have been more than happy with that.
I would also be happy with the commonwealth forming a trading bloc. Bigger, by far, than the EU, and truly global."Leavers and BREXITers often say they would be happy to stay in The Common Market that we voted for by over 60% back in 1975 but they clearly don't even know what a common market is. As defined by the WTO a common market (as opposed to a free trade area) has a common external tariff and may allow for labour mobility and common economic policies among the participating nations. A common market has the same features as a customs union, but, in addition, factors of production (labour, capital and technology) are mobile among members. Restrictions on immigration and cross-border investment are also abolished. That sounds pretty much to mean exactly like what the Customs Union and Single Market are. | |||
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""Reform is the process of incremental improvement. It's on going and has no end point" So, improvement from what, to what? What does work, and should stay as it is, and what doesn't work, and should be changed and 'reformed? One remainer's negative is another remainer's positive. One thing that one of you thinks works, another thinks doesn't work. You can't even agree amongst yourselves what does and doesn't need 'reforming' .... Not one of you can say one thing that needs 'reforming', nor how, nor to what, for fear of upsetting or offending your fellow remainers. And you think leavers are split and have no 'plan'. Did you not understand the parallels that I was drawing? I notice that you didn't respond, you just carries on saying the same thing but more loudly. How about reducing unnecessary spending like moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every year? How about reforming the Common Agricultural Policy? How about a fund to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration? There's plenty to change. Of course, we seem to keep changing our government every few years. It's almost as if we didn't know what we wanted. One British person's positive seems to be anothers negative. We can't even agree amongst ourselves about what to keep and what to change. Just for the record, what's the Brexit plan?
I understand fully... So you'll be perfectly happy with leavers saying Brexit is a process of reform, of ongoing improvement and has no end point?
As to things that need changing in the EU?
The Brussels/Strasbourg move every month costs over a Billion, will never be stopped because the French won't allow it.
How would you change the CAP? We've been trying to change the CAP for as long as I can remember.
And a fund to invest in immigration? Why would a fund be needed to invest in infrastructure for countries with high immigration, isn't immigration a 'net benefit that more than pays for itself'? And where would that money come from? Additional contributions? Maybe where we pay twice as much in as we get back?
Reforms? What reforms did David Cameron get before the referendum?
Once we have a starting point then the process of being a country will change. New trade deals are going to be a matter of ongoing development aren't they?
However, the negotiation to start our brave New future has an end point doesn't it? What do we want from that? That does require a plan. Cake and eat it does not appear to be viable funnily enough...
You don't appear to understand fully at all.
I have conceded completely that there are all manner of things that need improvement in the EU.
Do I know how? No. Do you know how to balance the UK budget deficit or cure cancer?
You have not made any effort to respond to the parallels that I have drawn with other international institutions and the UK itself. Who has a plan for eternity?
Does the UK need a plan too or is it just the EU?
The biggest objection to immigration here was that our schools, hospitals and housing couldn't cope with the sudden increase. If we had a capital fund to expand this in the short term would that solve the problem as over time normal taxation pays for ongoing costs?
Please look up again how many EU laws or regulations the UK has actually objected to?
Cameron negotiated in the same way as Brexit is being negotiated. Shouting loudly. He got nothing. Do you usually want to work with people who shout at you? Perhaps we should learn from that?
How come you are still so angry?
I haven't shown any anger at all.
All people have ever heard from remainers about immigration is that they are not a drain on any resources or infrastructure, and that they are a net financial benefit to the country....and yet you are saying the opposite! Remember the concerns people had about the potential level of immigration, and we were told that the 'experts' had crunched the numbers, and no more than 13,000 would immigrate to the UK? How did that go, and how accurate were the pro-EU expert forecasters then?
Cameron didn't shout loudly at all. But he did get......nothing.
You'll find that the threats and 'shouts' are coming from the likes of Barnier, juncker, at al. From before the referendum as well, not just since.
Regarding the laws and regulations we have objected to? How many times have we objected to any, and they have been shelved?
The end point to our negotiation is really quite simple - leaving the EU. As remainers during the campaign were so eager to point out, a vote to leave is a vote to leave the single market. And the customs Union. We cannot control our laws, taxation, trade deals or immigration by staying in.
Of course, we'd like access to the 'single market', and preferably tariff free.
The EU was sold to us as a 'common market', for trade....not as a political state. I would have been more than happy with that.
I would also be happy with the commonwealth forming a trading bloc. Bigger, by far, than the EU, and truly global.
What I remember was the same rhetoric for the benefit of Conservative eurosceptics and UKIP supporters of sticking it to the EU. He demanded a great deal and offered nothing in return.
There is a net benefit to immigration. At the very least it is neutral.
There is, however, a problem of high levels of immigration in a short period in specific locations. That requires immediate investment to ramp up to meet this demand.
The fact that you accuse all remainders being uncritical of the EU and immigration is no different to all leavers being accused of being racist.
Interestingly, it was some, and only some, elements of the Remain campaign who threatened that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. The Leave campaign, Farage himself, said that this was not necessarily the case. Be consistent at least.
As I said before, institutions grow organically. The Common Market always had the aim of a free-market which always included labour. That actually remains the situation now.
By your logic then there is merit in joining EFTA. It's exactly the organisation that you claim to support.
The UK never did anything that it didn't want to on these grounds. The fact that many people disagreed is a function of the way we are governed in the UK. We went to war in Iraq in the face of widespread opposition.
In fact, the UK has had a huge number of exemptions and exclusions that no other member has been offered. We had the best deal in the EU and you haven't realised it.
You may well be happy with a deal with the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth, however, does not care. They have huge investment from China. Why would they want an imbalanced trade relationship with a poorer and less wealthy country instead?
You continue to try to simplify a complex situation and try to generalise the very specific views of a large number of people to support your opinion.
There was one question on the ballot paper which allows for an almost infinite number of outcomes. Some you will like, some you will not. You are as powerless now as you were before, as am I.
I have every right to continue to campaign for what I believe is best for this country and challenge leavers to actually provide any logical path to actually improving our situation.
Back to the OP - has anything that Boris has said actually provided any more clarity? The evidence here is no because no Leaver has spotted anything and they have chosen to ignore the little new advice to be more diplomatic."If you can't see the difference between being told you have blind support of the EU or that you're a racist, well shame on you. The EU has already said that if we wanted to join EFTA we would have to accept free movement of people. I don't want that. So no, EFTA us nothing like the type of organisation I'd like, and so has absolutely no merit whatsoever. 'Immigration us a net financial benefit' to the country, I.e. as a whole, is not correct. If it was, then we would be using this net benefit to build up our infrastructure. You say that the EU has numerous faults and needs to be reformed, but also say that the EU will not reform. Every remain campaigner said that a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market. Leavers said we wanted access to the single market. | |||
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" What I remember was the same rhetoric for the benefit of Conservative eurosceptics and UKIP supporters of sticking it to the EU. He demanded a great deal and offered nothing in return. There is a net benefit to immigration. At the very least it is neutral. There is, however, a problem of high levels of immigration in a short period in specific locations. That requires immediate investment to ramp up to meet this demand. The fact that you accuse all remainders being uncritical of the EU and immigration is no different to all leavers being accused of being racist. Interestingly, it was some, and only some, elements of the Remain campaign who threatened that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market. The Leave campaign, Farage himself, said that this was not necessarily the case. Be consistent at least. As I said before, institutions grow organically. The Common Market always had the aim of a free-market which always included labour. That actually remains the situation now. By your logic then there is merit in joining EFTA. It's exactly the organisation that you claim to support. The UK never did anything that it didn't want to on these grounds. The fact that many people disagreed is a function of the way we are governed in the UK. We went to war in Iraq in the face of widespread opposition. In fact, the UK has had a huge number of exemptions and exclusions that no other member has been offered. We had the best deal in the EU and you haven't realised it. You may well be happy with a deal with the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth, however, does not care. They have huge investment from China. Why would they want an imbalanced trade relationship with a poorer and less wealthy country instead? You continue to try to simplify a complex situation and try to generalise the very specific views of a large number of people to support your opinion. There was one question on the ballot paper which allows for an almost infinite number of outcomes. Some you will like, some you will not. You are as powerless now as you were before, as am I. I have every right to continue to campaign for what I believe is best for this country and challenge leavers to actually provide any logical path to actually improving our situation. Back to the OP - has anything that Boris has said actually provided any more clarity? The evidence here is no because no Leaver has spotted anything and they have chosen to ignore the little new advice to be more diplomatic. If you can't see the difference between being told you have blind support of the EU or that you're a racist, well shame on you. The EU has already said that if we wanted to join EFTA we would have to accept free movement of people. I don't want that. So no, EFTA us nothing like the type of organisation I'd like, and so has absolutely no merit whatsoever. 'Immigration us a net financial benefit' to the country, I.e. as a whole, is not correct. If it was, then we would be using this net benefit to build up our infrastructure. You say that the EU has numerous faults and needs to be reformed, but also say that the EU will not reform. Every remain campaigner said that a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market. Leavers said we wanted access to the single market. " Wow. You still seem determined to state that everyone on the Remain side has identical views (as defined by you) and all those on the Leave side hold the same opinions that you do. I doubt that either position is true. You telling me that I blindly support the EU when I have specified significant areas with which I disagree with it is an interesting position to take. I have not said that it is incapable of reform. It is but it takes time and effort. Just like any organisation. I'm sure that most Leavers are not racist which is why I am NOT accusing them of that. You appear unable to extend a similar courtesy. The EU has not said anything about our joining EFTA. It has it's own rules as it is NOT A part of EU. As has been pointed out a free-market allows for the movement of capital, raw materials, goods, services and labour. The UK makes the majority of it's income from services, not goods or raw materials. I cannot think of a single free trade agreement that allows for such comprehensive freedom for services other than within the EU. Perhaps you can. Goods and raw material trade deals are "relatively" easy to negotiate compared to these. The EEC incorporated the right for the free movement of workers. Treaty of Rome 1957. That's what we joined. Be consistent. Immigration is a net financial benefit. Like having a salary. However, a small surplus every month doesn't allow me to by a house or a car. I need some capital up front which I then pay off with the surplus money that I save. Hence the need for up front capital expenditure. The EU per capita income is $32,000. That of the Commonwealth is $3,000. Do we produce and want to produce goods and services for people with $32,000 or $3,000 incomes? Any thoughts on Boris' speech? | |||
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"Johnson describing himself as 'liberal' really was taking the biscuit! I have to say that reading this thread has made me believe that perhaps this madness can be stopped. All the BBC threads still have a majority of people pro-Brexit, despite all that has happened. People are moving the goalposts from originally saying that we would be better off before the referendum to saying now that the financial hit is a price worth paying. Why are so many people taking the Trump line of never admitting they are wrong? To answer an earlier poster's question about Labour sitting on the fence: I think they are following the old Napoleon adage of never interfering with your enemy while they are making a mistake!" Good points
I think when the most substantial and potentially severe decisions are taken because of ideology, where a person is determined willfully to do something, whatever the consequences, then it speaks volumes about them - and potentially how others have shaped that person's opinion.
I don't understand Labour's stance, though the Conservatives are throwing most caution to the wind, in attempts to save themselves from self-destruction: it may well be that Labour view that as a Conservative internal problem that they don't wish to delay. I think all of them will evolve their policies and public positions over time, as the diminishing number of days left to get any sort of agreement with the EU means that greater catastrophe becomes more likely.
I think both of those parties will have self-preservation at heart, so I'm guessing that Labour will adjust its stance. Certainly the UK public has adjusted its perspective, so most citizens do not see the negotiations as going well. | |||
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"I am waiting for Centaur and Cask's glowing reviews which will emphasise all of the "facts" that Boris presented based on the clear evidence of him saying them
How sad that you sit here waiting for people to post comments.
I haven't actually heard Boris's speech yet as I've been at work all day. Will listen to it when I've got some spare time. "Is Centaur coming back? Did he not like what Boris said?  | |||
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