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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. " what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread" . It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless | |||
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may be a few less trains | |||
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" You should keep up with technology grandpa .I could point you on the right direction but you can take a horse to water etc.Or an oil man to the future but you can't make him open his eyes. Rolls Royce and Siemens and Airbus have got together snd done a deal for a short haul electric plane operational in 10 years.Its going to be whisper quite also. A Chinese company has built a 2,000 metric-ton (2,204 tons) all-electric cargo ship, which was launched from the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou in mid-November last year. The future is bright and it doesn't involve those who look to the past. "bless! go you! tell the old man! you plucky young whippersnapper you! | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless" And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining? | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining?" indeed and there is a very good living to be made working offshore | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining? indeed and there is a very good living to be made working offshore" Dunno what the rates are today but I cane off the rigs in 88 and the rates kept going down every time the contract got renewed Or companies lost the contract and we just swapped boiler suits but our rates always went down I was HLO, deck crew and when I finished My nett take home for the month was around a grand Have to say I moved ny years on the rigs North sea tiger forever ha ha | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining? indeed and there is a very good living to be made working offshore Dunno what the rates are today but I cane off the rigs in 88 and the rates kept going down every time the contract got renewed Or companies lost the contract and we just swapped boiler suits but our rates always went down I was HLO, deck crew and when I finished My nett take home for the month was around a grand Have to say I moved ny years on the rigs North sea tiger forever ha ha" average salary would be around £60k average salary for someone employed direct to oil company usually between £60 & £80k although when full benefits taken into account the figure is usually £120k+ which includes pension/bonus/medical cover etc depends on what you do and your grading | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining?" . Actually there's been no increase in demand since 09, could be because of the global recession, could be because of the start of the transition away from it?. . Makes no difference in the end anyway, we could go through gdp growth figures to see if they didn't transition from it you wouldn't have a supply left anyhow in 40 years!. | |||
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"Mostly sub contractors on the rigs scaffs riggers painters etc Back in my day it was Jack Tighe Lassalle petroleum et al No one was on the salaries you mention unless it was the OIM Possibly all changed now but the trades above on general contracts are not on those type of wages I started on a hook up project on the Hutton TLP, as it was hook up the rates where really high £2000 nett for 2 weeks on and £45 per day retention 2 weeks off and travel was paid for " these rates were early 80's You mention Lassalle, were you ever on Brent delta mid 80's wages have risen to what I said above, at least for company men working direct | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining?. Actually there's been no increase in demand since 09, could be because of the global recession, could be because of the start of the transition away from it?. . Makes no difference in the end anyway, we could go through gdp growth figures to see if they didn't transition from it you wouldn't have a supply left anyhow in 40 years!. " You must have access to secret special knowledge then... cos every publication and graph I look at has oil demand rising steadily year over year. And you may be right - it might run out in 40 years, but again... It doesn't make it worthless There's a lot can be achieved with whats left if its managed properly. Norway has provided us with an exemplary model of what can be done. | |||
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"To be honest cant remember all the platforms I was on Deffo on a brent, was on the Brae Alpha I think Couple of others Ended up in Morecambe bay gas field left in 88 just as the Piper Alpha went up Lot of Lassale crew lost there " I started on Brent D, week on week off using Chinooks company job with occidental on claymore after Piper A was lost the prod sup who fed the piper fuel and wouldn't shut down was made up to OIM | |||
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"I see trump plans now to cut the department for energy's renewable energy budget by 70% .For beautiful clean coal and oil.Ive spent 20 mins googling for a picture of clean coal and oil .But i am fucked if I can find one.Bring on the apocalypse cunts.. "They paint the coal white | |||
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"I see trump plans now to cut the department for energy's renewable energy budget by 70% .For beautiful clean coal and oil.Ive spent 20 mins googling for a picture of clean coal and oil .But i am fucked if I can find one.Bring on the apocalypse cunts..
They paint the coal white "Crafty bastards.Its a White wash | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining?. Actually there's been no increase in demand since 09, could be because of the global recession, could be because of the start of the transition away from it?. . Makes no difference in the end anyway, we could go through gdp growth figures to see if they didn't transition from it you wouldn't have a supply left anyhow in 40 years!. You must have access to secret special knowledge then... cos every publication and graph I look at has oil demand rising steadily year over year. And you may be right - it might run out in 40 years, but again... It doesn't make it worthless There's a lot can be achieved with whats left if its managed properly. Norway has provided us with an exemplary model of what can be done. " . No just standard eia data, technically yes your correct demand is historically around 7% for oil but they've only been seeing 0.6% growth here and there for a decade now, maybe this year will the big growth return with global GDP growth who knows?. The problem with 7% growth in demand means your effectively seeing a doubling of usage every decade and the trouble with the doubling effect is that means for instance if you wanted to contend with 7% demand you'd need to find more oil for that decade than we've found and used since 1855. . Nobody with half a brain cell is worried about "oil running out" but that's not really the same as not being able to increase supply on an exponential function is it?. . Now once you can't increase supply on an exponential level that "lack" of has to be found in alternative sources and once you've moved some of that demand to alternative sources your on the roller coaster of the bell curve | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining?. Actually there's been no increase in demand since 09, could be because of the global recession, could be because of the start of the transition away from it?. . Makes no difference in the end anyway, we could go through gdp growth figures to see if they didn't transition from it you wouldn't have a supply left anyhow in 40 years!. You must have access to secret special knowledge then... cos every publication and graph I look at has oil demand rising steadily year over year. And you may be right - it might run out in 40 years, but again... It doesn't make it worthless There's a lot can be achieved with whats left if its managed properly. Norway has provided us with an exemplary model of what can be done. . No just standard eia data, technically yes your correct demand is historically around 7% for oil but they've only been seeing 0.6% growth here and there for a decade now, maybe this year will the big growth return with global GDP growth who knows?. The problem with 7% growth in demand means your effectively seeing a doubling of usage every decade and the trouble with the doubling effect is that means for instance if you wanted to contend with 7% demand you'd need to find more oil for that decade than we've found and used since 1855. . Nobody with half a brain cell is worried about "oil running out" but that's not really the same as not being able to increase supply on an exponential function is it?. . Now once you can't increase supply on an exponential level that "lack" of has to be found in alternative sources and once you've moved some of that demand to alternative sources your on the roller coaster of the bell curve" I see... I've been looking at global consumption though (figures from the BP statistical review of world energy) - which shows a pretty much linear increase, with no sign of levelling off just yet. Your point about exponentialities is well taken however (Martenson?) . Sadly it seems to be something that no Government in the world seems to understand. Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. More egregious still is Westminster's withdrawal from Euratom. I don't want to digress too far, except to say, that in my opinion, ITER is a far far more valuable project than Hinckley Point. | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. " While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible." Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much " Saying something doesn't make it a plan. You couldn't even stretch it to call it an aspiration. It's like me saying I intend to get rich by winning the lottery, that's not a plan. If their growth commission comes up with a financial model showing they can do it fair enough, but I know they can't. | |||
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"Does it really matter about oil anymore. The combustion engine is going to be history come 2040. what has that got to do with oil production? do you not realise many other things within your household are made from Oil/gas go back and refresh yourself on the old closed thread. It matters greatly. For starters around 35% of global production is used for transport and a further 35% for heating or electrical generation. If you remove 70% of the market that means you now only need a global supply of around 30 million barrels a day, quite easily done without Scottish oil, the ghawar field alone outputs around 5 million barrels a day and there cost of extraction is about 7 dollars a barrel or about a fifth of the cost of Scottish production. Secondly oil used for stuff outside of transport, heating etc tends to be the sweet better quality stuff so your analogy that technology will get you more out of the well will be pointless, the last bits are the shit hits and without that 70% of the market it will be completely useless And yet... demand for oil keeps increasing year over year. If its worthless... shouldn't demand be declining?. Actually there's been no increase in demand since 09, could be because of the global recession, could be because of the start of the transition away from it?. . Makes no difference in the end anyway, we could go through gdp growth figures to see if they didn't transition from it you wouldn't have a supply left anyhow in 40 years!. You must have access to secret special knowledge then... cos every publication and graph I look at has oil demand rising steadily year over year. And you may be right - it might run out in 40 years, but again... It doesn't make it worthless There's a lot can be achieved with whats left if its managed properly. Norway has provided us with an exemplary model of what can be done. . No just standard eia data, technically yes your correct demand is historically around 7% for oil but they've only been seeing 0.6% growth here and there for a decade now, maybe this year will the big growth return with global GDP growth who knows?. The problem with 7% growth in demand means your effectively seeing a doubling of usage every decade and the trouble with the doubling effect is that means for instance if you wanted to contend with 7% demand you'd need to find more oil for that decade than we've found and used since 1855. . Nobody with half a brain cell is worried about "oil running out" but that's not really the same as not being able to increase supply on an exponential function is it?. . Now once you can't increase supply on an exponential level that "lack" of has to be found in alternative sources and once you've moved some of that demand to alternative sources your on the roller coaster of the bell curve I see... I've been looking at global consumption though (figures from the BP statistical review of world energy) - which shows a pretty much linear increase, with no sign of levelling off just yet. Your point about exponentialities is well taken however (Martenson?) . Sadly it seems to be something that no Government in the world seems to understand. Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. More egregious still is Westminster's withdrawal from Euratom. I don't want to digress too far, except to say, that in my opinion, ITER is a far far more valuable project than Hinckley Point. " . I wouldn't disagree with you on hinkley c, its a bullshit stop gap oh my god have we left it this late expensive white elephant | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much Saying something doesn't make it a plan. You couldn't even stretch it to call it an aspiration. It's like me saying I intend to get rich by winning the lottery, that's not a plan. If their growth commission comes up with a financial model showing they can do it fair enough, but I know they can't. " I find "naw we cannae" to be such a perpetual and disappointing attitude amongst Scots. So much so that I can't help but wonder at times, if the South-Easts low opinion of us isn't entirely justified. | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much Saying something doesn't make it a plan. You couldn't even stretch it to call it an aspiration. It's like me saying I intend to get rich by winning the lottery, that's not a plan. If their growth commission comes up with a financial model showing they can do it fair enough, but I know they can't. I find "naw we cannae" to be such a perpetual and disappointing attitude amongst Scots. So much so that I can't help but wonder at times, if the South-Easts low opinion of us isn't entirely justified." Well I can say that I'll never be a billionaire, that's just stating a fact and nothing to do with a disappointing attitude. When it comes to finances it tends to be cold hard reality that comes into play rather than whimsical statements. As I say if it was possible then given the SNP have been on a big push for indy in the past few years you'd think someone would've come up with just one set of figures showing how to do it. Instead the SNP's own figures show it's not. Even at a very very basic level anyone can look at Scot Gov accounts and say here's how to do it, but again no one has. You're welcome to have a go at it. I've also got to say I disagree with what you claim is the "South East's" opinion. I tend to find it's rather silly to make such a sweeping statement. | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much Saying something doesn't make it a plan. You couldn't even stretch it to call it an aspiration. It's like me saying I intend to get rich by winning the lottery, that's not a plan. If their growth commission comes up with a financial model showing they can do it fair enough, but I know they can't. I find "naw we cannae" to be such a perpetual and disappointing attitude amongst Scots. So much so that I can't help but wonder at times, if the South-Easts low opinion of us isn't entirely justified. Well I can say that I'll never be a billionaire, that's just stating a fact and nothing to do with a disappointing attitude. When it comes to finances it tends to be cold hard reality that comes into play rather than whimsical statements. As I say if it was possible then given the SNP have been on a big push for indy in the past few years you'd think someone would've come up with just one set of figures showing how to do it. Instead the SNP's own figures show it's not. Even at a very very basic level anyone can look at Scot Gov accounts and say here's how to do it, but again no one has. You're welcome to have a go at it. I've also got to say I disagree with what you claim is the "South East's" opinion. I tend to find it's rather silly to make such a sweeping statement. " really? you've never heard the term 'subsidy junkie' ? But if as you say the cold hard reality is that Scotland is no longer viable as an independent nation. How did that come to be so? Glasgow used to be very wealthy - 2nd city of the Empire | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much Saying something doesn't make it a plan. You couldn't even stretch it to call it an aspiration. It's like me saying I intend to get rich by winning the lottery, that's not a plan. If their growth commission comes up with a financial model showing they can do it fair enough, but I know they can't. I find "naw we cannae" to be such a perpetual and disappointing attitude amongst Scots. So much so that I can't help but wonder at times, if the South-Easts low opinion of us isn't entirely justified. Well I can say that I'll never be a billionaire, that's just stating a fact and nothing to do with a disappointing attitude. When it comes to finances it tends to be cold hard reality that comes into play rather than whimsical statements. As I say if it was possible then given the SNP have been on a big push for indy in the past few years you'd think someone would've come up with just one set of figures showing how to do it. Instead the SNP's own figures show it's not. Even at a very very basic level anyone can look at Scot Gov accounts and say here's how to do it, but again no one has. You're welcome to have a go at it. I've also got to say I disagree with what you claim is the "South East's" opinion. I tend to find it's rather silly to make such a sweeping statement. really? you've never heard the term 'subsidy junkie' ? But if as you say the cold hard reality is that Scotland is no longer viable as an independent nation. How did that come to be so? Glasgow used to be very wealthy - 2nd city of the Empire" I never said Scotland isn't viable as an independent nation. It could be independent but it would mean cutting billions in public expenditure and also tax rises way beyond anything we've seen lately. Again, no one has shown where these cuts would be made. | |||
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" Which again leads me to criticism of the UK Government and their squandering of North sea oil. You may not like the SNP - fair enough - but their plans for a Norwegian style sovereign wealth fund are much preferable to Westminster's cuts to PRT and corp tax which serve only to drive the hollow financialisation of the city. While the SNP may talk about an oil fund the reality would be very different. Billions of income from oil was included in their white paper baked into the financial figures. It wasn't set aside as a bonus to be put in a seperate fund because it would be needed for daily expenditure. The SNP's Growth commission was supposed to come up with a financial model that didn't include oil in the finances but here we are a couple of years down the line and there's still nothing to show for their work. It's impossible. Impossible is a word I like to reserve for describing apples falling to earth at a rate of 8 m/s sq. Most other things are merely difficult. The point here however is that at least the SNP had a plan, however ambitious that may have been, which was a step in what I consider to be the right direction. Westminster... not so much Saying something doesn't make it a plan. You couldn't even stretch it to call it an aspiration. It's like me saying I intend to get rich by winning the lottery, that's not a plan. If their growth commission comes up with a financial model showing they can do it fair enough, but I know they can't. I find "naw we cannae" to be such a perpetual and disappointing attitude amongst Scots. So much so that I can't help but wonder at times, if the South-Easts low opinion of us isn't entirely justified. Well I can say that I'll never be a billionaire, that's just stating a fact and nothing to do with a disappointing attitude. When it comes to finances it tends to be cold hard reality that comes into play rather than whimsical statements. As I say if it was possible then given the SNP have been on a big push for indy in the past few years you'd think someone would've come up with just one set of figures showing how to do it. Instead the SNP's own figures show it's not. Even at a very very basic level anyone can look at Scot Gov accounts and say here's how to do it, but again no one has. You're welcome to have a go at it. I've also got to say I disagree with what you claim is the "South East's" opinion. I tend to find it's rather silly to make such a sweeping statement. really? you've never heard the term 'subsidy junkie' ? But if as you say the cold hard reality is that Scotland is no longer viable as an independent nation. How did that come to be so? Glasgow used to be very wealthy - 2nd city of the Empire I never said Scotland isn't viable as an independent nation. It could be independent but it would mean cutting billions in public expenditure and also tax rises way beyond anything we've seen lately. Again, no one has shown where these cuts would be made." Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
"And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that? | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?"Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now. You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London. Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed. So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment. But hey - what the hell do I know? Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right? | |||
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""Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?" That's what we see. A dishonest and incompetent government in Holyrood, abusing power and process. " Who is we ? and seems its just the britnats who find the goverment dishonest and incompetent ,going by the news the support for snp goverment is going up | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?
Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now.
You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London.
Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed.
So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment.
But hey - what the hell do I know?
Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?
"You do realise that lots of Scots vote Tory, and you might still end up with a Tory government in a independent Scotland, right? | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?
Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now.
You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London.
Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed.
So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment.
But hey - what the hell do I know?
Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?
You do realise that lots of Scots vote Tory, and you might still end up with a Tory government in a independent Scotland, right?"Absolutely You do realise that not all voters Scotland are Scots | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?
Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now.
You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London.
Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed.
So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment.
But hey - what the hell do I know?
Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?
You do realise that lots of Scots vote Tory, and you might still end up with a Tory government in a independent Scotland, right?
Absolutely
You do realise that not all voters Scotland are Scots"No doubt foreigners and plastic Scots vote Tory. | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?
Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now.
You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London.
Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed.
So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment.
But hey - what the hell do I know?
Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?
You do realise that lots of Scots vote Tory, and you might still end up with a Tory government in a independent Scotland, right?
Absolutely
You do realise that not all voters Scotland are Scots No doubt foreigners and plastic Scots vote Tory."you would be surprised the number of snp Scots who changed over & voted Tory after brexit | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?
Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now.
You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London.
Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed.
So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment.
But hey - what the hell do I know?
Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?
You do realise that lots of Scots vote Tory, and you might still end up with a Tory government in a independent Scotland, right?"While I understand that thinking of me as some kind of drooling savage may be of some comfort, I'm afraid the crashingly obvious is well within my grasp. Sorry to disappoint you. | |||
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" Ah.. so not impossible then - merely difficult
I will grant you though, there's a power of work still to be done.
And yet, years later no one seems capable of doing this work. Why is that?
Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now.
You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London.
Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed.
So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment.
But hey - what the hell do I know?
Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?
You do realise that lots of Scots vote Tory, and you might still end up with a Tory government in a independent Scotland, right?
While I understand that thinking of me as some kind of drooling savage may be of some comfort, I'm afraid the crashingly obvious is well within my grasp.
Sorry to disappoint you."Some anti-unionists have never considered that as an outcome. In fact a mainstay of indepence arguments (Not just Scotland's) is decisions made "over there" are bad, and everyone would be happy if only decisions were made "over here". Your post had that kind of ring to it. | |||
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""Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right?" That's what we see. A dishonest and incompetent government in Holyrood, abusing power and process. " Thats absolutely your prerogative. I'll confess my opinion of Tory, Labour and libdem governments is no less derisory. But I am curious, what is it that drives your opposition to the SNP? Genuine question. | |||
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"Their duplicity, they claim to be a socialist type party, yet they have no redistributive policies. They have starved local authorities of funds for years now and in the last two budgets have slashed the money for them by over £200m, despite their own budget rising in real terms. Austerity in Scotland is due entirely to the snp. Also,transparency in government is becoming a joke, we have ministers meetings where no minutes or records are being kept. We know more about Nixon dealings in the White House than we do of ministers in Scotland. Oh, and Nixon was a criminal. I could go on, they are the most dishonest and arrogant party I have ever seen here, that includes Labour from the old days when they used to weigh the votes rather than count them. " I see - so its not independence you object to so much as the party? | |||
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"Their duplicity, they claim to be a socialist type party, yet they have no redistributive policies. They have starved local authorities of funds for years now and in the last two budgets have slashed the money for them by over £200m, despite their own budget rising in real terms. Austerity in Scotland is due entirely to the snp. Also,transparency in government is becoming a joke, we have ministers meetings where no minutes or records are being kept. We know more about Nixon dealings in the White House than we do of ministers in Scotland. Oh, and Nixon was a criminal. I could go on, they are the most dishonest and arrogant party I have ever seen here, that includes Labour from the old days when they used to weigh the votes rather than count them. " Snp goverment seem to have the trust of the ppl( well maybe apart from the britnats ) as they keep getting voted into power and cant see that changing anytime soon ,just curious who would you like to see in goverment in scotland ? | |||
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"Their duplicity, they claim to be a socialist type party, yet they have no redistributive policies. They have starved local authorities of funds for years now and in the last two budgets have slashed the money for them by over £200m, despite their own budget rising in real terms. Austerity in Scotland is due entirely to the snp. Also,transparency in government is becoming a joke, we have ministers meetings where no minutes or records are being kept. We know more about Nixon dealings in the White House than we do of ministers in Scotland. Oh, and Nixon was a criminal. I could go on, they are the most dishonest and arrogant party I have ever seen here, that includes Labour from the old days when they used to weigh the votes rather than count them. Snp goverment seem to have the trust of the ppl( well maybe apart from the britnats ) as they keep getting voted into power and cant see that changing anytime soon ,just curious who would you like to see in goverment in scotland ?" Alex Salmond would suit me fine | |||
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" Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now. You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London. Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed. So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment. But hey - what the hell do I know? Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right? " The SNP commision was set up solely to look at the figures for independence. At no point have they ever come out and said 'we're kinda busy doing other stuff for now so we're not doing any work on thi'. It would be pretty ridiculous, and completely reckless, for a party who's sole belief is independence and are continually pushing for it not to actually have the financial plans in place for it. | |||
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" Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now. You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London. Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed. So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment. But hey - what the hell do I know? Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right? The SNP commision was set up solely to look at the figures for independence. At no point have they ever come out and said 'we're kinda busy doing other stuff for now so we're not doing any work on thi'. It would be pretty ridiculous, and completely reckless, for a party who's sole belief is independence and are continually pushing for it not to actually have the financial plans in place for it. " And what would be the point in releasing such plans now? There's no referendum scheduled, independence is off the table "for a generation", we've no clue how things are going to look once brexit hits... Like I say... I can't imagine there's any kind of high priority to produce something, knowing fine that the response will be... "willnae work" "there's nae referendum scheduled" "for a generation" "whit aboot brexit?" | |||
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" Well... I don't think its a question of capability. I think its probably more a case of folk aren't working particularly hard on that right now. You may have noticed that we've kinda got a bunch of lunatics in charge of the UK right now - running around taking a sledgehammer to public services, pursuing an incredibly risky plan to leave the European Union, and throwing the rest of the country onto the financial bonfire that is London. Now... these things can be fixed, and its my belief that Independence is the fastest and surest way of doing that, but for now - that door is closed. So bearing in mind that the SNP members of the commission are busy firefighting and the rest of them have day jobs, I think they're probably just a bit busy at the moment. But hey - what the hell do I know? Maybe they're just feckless muppets - thats what you wanna hear right? The SNP commision was set up solely to look at the figures for independence. At no point have they ever come out and said 'we're kinda busy doing other stuff for now so we're not doing any work on thi'. It would be pretty ridiculous, and completely reckless, for a party who's sole belief is independence and are continually pushing for it not to actually have the financial plans in place for it. And what would be the point in releasing such plans now? There's no referendum scheduled, independence is off the table "for a generation", we've no clue how things are going to look once brexit hits... Like I say... I can't imagine there's any kind of high priority to produce something, knowing fine that the response will be... "willnae work" "there's nae referendum scheduled" "for a generation" "whit aboot brexit?"" Well given they are pushing for another referendum it would make sense to be publishing their plans. This group was set up by the SNP specifically for this purpose. Brexit won't matter as it's purpose is to look at an independent Scotland's finances. If you believe they shouldn't have done that then your argument is with the SNP leadership but I find it hard to believe anyone, whether they believe in independence or not, wouldn't like to see their attempt at making the finances work. I know SNP followers don't like the party being criticised in anyway but the idea they shouldn't publish the information they've said they would solely because people would criticise it is rather pitiful. | |||
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