FabSwingers.com forum: New indy poll Scotland part 3

By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Again can you confirm are you really saying Scottish Labour branch office can scrap the bedroom tax ? Again you not find that pretty weird considering its not devolved to Scotland?

Like i said if Scottish Labour branch were in government in Scotland instead of the SNP right now are you honestly about to tell me Scottish Labour have the power to scrap the bedroom tax ?

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By *losguygl3Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

Course they can't as they only have seats in the regional assembly. So it's irrelevant.

That's why I said vote someone else, other than SNP,in general elections. They could repeal the bedroom tax in Parliament if they have a majority. But you know all this so why bother asking?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Course they can't as they only have seats in the regional assembly. So it's irrelevant.

That's why I said vote someone else, other than SNP,in general elections. They could repeal the bedroom tax in Parliament if they have a majority. But you know all this so why bother asking?

So why in the hell would i vote for Scottish Labour branch office then?

Ok in your opinion who should i vote for then that will scrap the bedroom tax in Scotland?

The SNP have long for asked for the powers to be devolved to scrap the bedroom tax correct? Westminster are denying the Scottish government those powers so the Scottish government are mitigating it

So tell me why should our Scottish government mitigate Tory cuts ? You do not think it should be fully devolved?

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By *losguygl3Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"So why in the hell would i vote for Scottish Labour branch office then?

Ok in your opinion who should i vote for then that will scrap the bedroom tax in Scotland?

The SNP have long for asked for the powers to be devolved to scrap the bedroom tax correct? Westminster are denying the Scottish government those powers so the Scottish government are mitigating it

So tell me why should our Scottish government mitigate Tory cuts ? You do not think it should be fully devolved?

I haven't said anything about voting for the regional assembly at all. I said if you wanted to repeal the bedroom tax to vote in a general election for a party that could do it.

And no I don't agree with devolved regional assemblies at all. The money spent on the assemblies and the members who attend them would be better used by county councils.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"So why in the hell would i vote for Scottish Labour branch office then?

Ok in your opinion who should i vote for then that will scrap the bedroom tax in Scotland?

The SNP have long for asked for the powers to be devolved to scrap the bedroom tax correct? Westminster are denying the Scottish government those powers so the Scottish government are mitigating it

So tell me why should our Scottish government mitigate Tory cuts ? You do not think it should be fully devolved?

I haven't said anything about voting for the regional assembly at all. I said if you wanted to repeal the bedroom tax to vote in a general election for a party that could do it.

And no I don't agree with devolved regional assemblies at all. The money spent on the assemblies and the members who attend them would be better used by county councils."

And i did vote in the general election and voted SNP as they like i said for a long time have said the powers over the bedroom tax should be devolved to Scotland you trying to deny the SNP have never once said that ?

Ah right so you would have Holyrod scrapped then ? Meaning you would be happy for the Tories to have full control in Scotland when clearly Scotland dont want those dickheads anyway near government

Btw none of you have even picked up see when Labour gave Scotland a parliament in 1999 again that was to try and shut any talk about independence up but more important that unionists cant bloody well see that is a breach of the act of the union giving Scotland back a parliament

Ah but to hell with rules eh the union must be kept no matter what shit goes on its all about keeping the elite rich

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Now to clear things up for CLCC

The tax raising powers Scotland has. Will it help ? Not much you cant control the basic personal allowance you know that thing that effects every single tax payer yes you could tinker it abit with upper rates but it wont bring in much extra cash

Oh and as for welfare you should all know by now the welfare powers Scotland was getting was NOT full control as Westminster would still have some power over Welfare that not Home Rule you all know it

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By *losguygl3Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"And i did vote in the general election and voted SNP as they like i said for a long time have said the powers over the bedroom tax should be devolved to Scotland you trying to deny the SNP have never once said that ?

Yes it's true. I have never said that you and the SNP think the powers over the bedroom tax should be devolved.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Yes it's true. I have never said that you and the SNP think the powers over the bedroom tax should be devolved."

Right so the SNP were elected in Scotland with the majority of Scottish seats and have more than once said that powers over the bedroom tax should be devolved so if it not a dictaotorship why in the hell hasnt the UK devolved those powers ?

They are going against the will of Scottish people who elected the SNP to represent them in Westminster correct ?

This shit aint gonna go away its time for Westminster to listen and respect Scotland if not then we will break the UK apart which it needs to happen

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By *losguygl3Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Right so the SNP were elected in Scotland with the majority of Scottish seats and have more than once said that powers over the bedroom tax should be devolved so if it not a dictaotorship why in the hell hasnt the UK devolved those powers ?

It doesn't matter how many SNP members are I'm the devolved assembly, as they have no say on this matter.

They are going against the will of Scottish people who elected the SNP to represent them in Westminster correct ?

The SNP in Westminster need to convince the other parties to support a motion to repeal it then. This isn't rocket science.

This shit aint gonna go away its time for Westminster to listen and respect Scotland if not then we will break the UK apart which it needs to happen "

yes it will go away the more it becomes apparent to rational Scots that an independent Scotland isn't worth making their personal quality of life worse just to be independent for independences sake.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

It doesn't matter how many SNP members are I'm the devolved assembly, as they have no say on this matter.

They are going against the will of Scottish people who elected the SNP to represent them in Westminster correct ?

The SNP in Westminster need to convince the other parties to support a motion to repeal it then. This isn't rocket science.

This shit aint gonna go away its time for Westminster to listen and respect Scotland if not then we will break the UK apart which it needs to happen

yes it will go away the more it becomes apparent to rational Scots that an independent Scotland isn't worth making their personal quality of life worse just to be independent for independences sake."

Oh really you cant force people to stop believing in independence

So lets twist it round if its not worth staying part of the UK where brexit will effect peoples lives and very well make Scotland £30 billion worse off by staying in the UK just to keep the UK together for that sake only ? So if that happens should Scotland break away from the UK ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesn't matter how many SNP members are I'm the devolved assembly, as they have no say on this matter.

They are going against the will of Scottish people who elected the SNP to represent them in Westminster correct ?

The SNP in Westminster need to convince the other parties to support a motion to repeal it then. This isn't rocket science.

This shit aint gonna go away its time for Westminster to listen and respect Scotland if not then we will break the UK apart which it needs to happen

yes it will go away the more it becomes apparent to rational Scots that an independent Scotland isn't worth making their personal quality of life worse just to be independent for independences sake.

Oh really you cant force people to stop believing in independence

True, you cant stop Scots from believing in Independence

but

you can breed it out of them and populate it out of them

More English moving up to Scotland every year for a better life but they still believe in the union and are entitled to the vote

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The other thing an very curious to know with unionists on here that are in Scotland never seem to want to tell us if they believe the SNP are failing Scotland that much who do they think would do better ? They gi very shy when asked that i do wonder why lol

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Labour, Tories or Lib Dems. Every one would do a better job than the SNP.

Since the SNP came to power the major areas of concern have gone backwards

The Economy - It's floundered under the SNP and forecasts show it won't be improving any time soon

Education - It has also gone backwards. It's gotten to be so bad that the SNP have pulled Scotland out of the international Pisa comparisons as it was embarrasing for them

The NHS - It has gone backwards again under the SNP and some of the KPI's are incredibly bad (I'm thinking specifically of mental health treatement for youngsters)

Local Government - They're cutting local government to the bone in terms of finances.

I know you'll post a load of waffle here about the Tories etc but I can back up every part of the above with facts and figures (and I know you can't

)

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Labour, Tories or Lib Dems. Every one would do a better job than the SNP.

Since the SNP came to power the major areas of concern have gone backwards

The Economy - It's floundered under the SNP and forecasts show it won't be improving any time soon

Education - It has also gone backwards. It's gotten to be so bad that the SNP have pulled Scotland out of the international Pisa comparisons as it was embarrasing for them

The NHS - It has gone backwards again under the SNP and some of the KPI's are incredibly bad (I'm thinking specifically of mental health treatement for youngsters)

Local Government - They're cutting local government to the bone in terms of finances.

I know you'll post a load of waffle here about the Tories etc but I can back up every part of the above with facts and figures (and I know you can't

)

Wow just wow same pish as always unionists cant name just one lol

Ok so you think the Scottish NHS has gone backwards under the SNP eh ? So you think its wrong to say the Scottish NHS is the best in the UK ? Are Nuffield trust wrong when they say the English NHS could learn from the Scottish NHS ?

Stop putting the Scottish NHS down its damn well sick be greatful that our NHS is meeting targets same cant be said for the rest of the UK hopefully they can but withe Tories and Labour in charge of the English and Welsh NHS very much doubt it

Where are the cuts coming from ? Doubt tou will tell the truth that its the Tories cutting the Scottish budget each fucking year and who gets the blame yup the SNP

Labour even tried to blame the SNP for lack of teachers erm fucking duh its he councils who are in charge of hiring teachers but Labour want you to think its all the SNP fault

Breaking news its fucking snowing see that damn SNP bring the snow lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder if it is due to the cuts to the council budgets implemented by those champions of the people the SNP that the snow is still "lying deep n crisp n even"...Wheres the gritters ?....SNP stained and drowning in there own self declared moral superiority a party that lost its way around about Sept 2014...

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I wonder if it is due to the cuts to the council budgets implemented by those champions of the people the SNP that the snow is still "lying deep n crisp n even"...Wheres the gritters ?....SNP stained and drowning in there own self declared moral superiority a party that lost its way around about Sept 2014...

Might of known it so now snow is being blamed on the SNP

Fuck me abit of snow hits and people complain where is the gritters fuck sake Millie do you complain to mother nature about this snow ? Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny how any blame you can lay at the doors of the Labour or Tory parties you do so with great relish...But when due to cuts my neck of the woods is impassable...I wonder how busy your A&E depts are tonight with broken and twisted limbs due to the lack of gritting?...Of course they will be seen to promptly as you state how wonderful the NHS is under the present Govt. How much have they missed the last targets by?...Who cares ?...I do know the next set of figures should surely see the last of Ms Robinson whose "leadership" is one place or two below incompetent...Oh i forgot she is a "mate" of St Nicola so she will be okay....yes really that is how it is nowadays .As another politician would ask "Is she one of us" if she is she stays...a shameless clique of the arselicker and just plain stupid

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Funny how any blame you can lay at the doors of the Labour or Tory parties you do so with great relish...But when due to cuts my neck of the woods is impassable...I wonder how busy your A&E depts are tonight with broken and twisted limbs due to the lack of gritting?...Of course they will be seen to promptly as you state how wonderful the NHS is under the present Govt. How much have they missed the last targets by?...Who cares ?...I do know the next set of figures should surely see the last of Ms Robinson whose "leadership" is one place or two below incompetent...Oh i forgot she is a "mate" of St Nicola so she will be okay....yes really that is how it is nowadays .As another politician would ask "Is she one of us" if she is she stays...a shameless clique of the arselicker and just plain stupid

Millie who cuts are they ? Are you really defending the Tories and trying to say its not Tory cuts being passed onto the Scottish budget ? Money is not devolved to Scotland the UK treasury gives Scotland a set budget to work with and yes it is the Tories cutting the Scottish budget year after year but no no you keep in going letting the Tories get away with murder and try passing the blame on the SNP

Millie am curious to know say Scottish Labour branch were in government in Scotland right now would you be as quick off the mark to claim its Scottish Labour branch cuts or would it be Tory cuts i dare you to try and answer that ? Please no crap like saying but Labour arent in government humour me and try answering that lets see if you would end up blaming Scottish Labour branch or is it what i thought pure hatred of the SNP that you would be willing to defend the Tories

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Oh btw there is a strong reason i ask that question above

Because if you really notice with unionists how they are so quick off the mark to blame the SNP for cuts to councils

But weird as hell in Wales where Labour are in government they blame the Tories for the cuts

So i ask pro unionists which one is true eh ?

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

In before the rest ....

Aren’t the income tax rates going be different next year ? I assume they’re not fiscally neutral and Scotland reaps what it sows here ?

And forgive me, I don’t quite follow how cuts are bad. Yet you’d scrap some taxes in Scotland. Those two positions feel conflicting, so I suspect there’s a third piece to square it all off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will put the blame where it always lies and that is with whoever governs the country. At this time the SNP have decided to at last remove the council tax freeze which has put them in this position . It is a self inflicted wound so grow up and realise i have no hatred in my heart for anyone... I find this total myopia you have with the SNP as being very sad.They are a party flawed and increasingly being exposed for being a one trick pony. A Scottish UKIP if you like

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

by these comments above, I take it you have never seen or experienced ""deep" snow

lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Milli in Scotland is it SNP cuts or is it Tory cuts ?

In Wales is it Welsh Labour cuts or is it Tory cuts ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I take it your not in Glasgows west end

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In Scotland the SNP decide how the budget is spent....In Wales it is Labour both are responsible for the decisions taken.........No mealy mouth squirming allowed they are making a right mess of it.....

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"In Scotland the SNP decide how the budget is spent....In Wales it is Labour both are responsible for the decisions taken.........No mealy mouth squirming allowed they are making a right mess of it.....

Right to be clear Milli are you saying its Welsh Labour cuts ?

Btw Milli i take it you didnt pay attention in the Scottish council elections

The SNP made it clear as hell that councils will be incharge of if they want to increase tax or not correct ? Wait i dorgot you must have missed that lol

Did you also forget Scottish Labour branch being being told that and just before the council elections guess what Scottish Labour branch council shat a brick and kept the council tax freeze same Scottish Labour branch tvat moaned their arses off about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Kinky your like the little boy caught taking biscuits....You always point to the other kids and say i maybe bad but im not as bad as him. Your hatred for Labour oozes onto every utterance.

Time for you to put your hands up,the SNP are a busted flush, no direction ,no policies and are now stumbling around in the dark...Taxi for the deluded SNP arselickers

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Kinky your like the little boy caught taking biscuits....You always point to the other kids and say i maybe bad but im not as bad as him. Your hatred for Labour oozes onto every utterance.

Time for you to put your hands up,the SNP are a busted flush, no direction ,no policies and are now stumbling around in the dark...Taxi for the deluded SNP arselickers

Come on Milli are you claiming its Welsh Labour cuts yes or no ? It would appear you must be ashamed to say its Welsh Labour cuts because you know fine well ita Tory cuts passed into the Scottish and Welsh parilment and assemblies

Yeah ok no policys but Scottish people still elect them and have done since 2007 must be doing something right

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Right to be clear Milli are you saying its Welsh Labour cuts ?

Btw Milli i take it you didnt pay attention in the Scottish council elections

The SNP made it clear as hell that councils will be incharge of if they want to increase tax or not correct ? Wait i dorgot you must have missed that lol

But doesn't all of that taxation go to London, rather than the Scottish councils?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Pa Milli not a very smaet move calling SNP arselickers

Did you forget alot of Ex Labour voters joined the SNP lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bloody hell......is this thread still going?.... completely moved off the original point!

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Bloody hell......is this thread still going?.... completely moved off the original point!"

Jesus is now the theead is being gagged on what can and cant be debated lol

More than welcome to start your very own thread lol if your not happy with this one hehehe

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Wait a minute the SNP only have one policy thats what unionists tell us

So by their logic does that mean since 2007 Scottish voters have elected the SNP in 2007 , 2011 ,2015 ,2016 ,2017 all because of the one policy independence lmao

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bloody hell......is this thread still going?.... completely moved off the original point!"

I've been following this on and off and I'm amazed at the patience exhibited by some members on here. Some people deserve a pat on the back others a head wobble. And I have no idea now what the original point was supposed to be.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Bloody hell......is this thread still going?.... completely moved off the original point!

Any "discussion" with Kinky is a waste of time!

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Bloody hell......is this thread still going?.... completely moved off the original point!

Any "discussion" with Kinky is a waste of time!"

If you feel that way why comment ? No one is forcing you to comment on the thread lol

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Bloody hell......is this thread still going?.... completely moved off the original point!

Any "discussion" with Kinky is a waste of time!

If you feel that way why comment ? No one is forcing you to comment on the thread lol

I hope that you will learn something.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

So back to it lol

So when unionists claim the SNP only have one policy "independence"

Then by unionist logic since 2007 Scottish voters have Elected SNP for 10 years on that one single policy "independence"

lmao

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Kinky your like the little boy caught taking biscuits....You always point to the other kids and say i maybe bad but im not as bad as him. Your hatred for Labour oozes onto every utterance.

Time for you to put your hands up,the SNP are a busted flush, no direction ,no policies and are now stumbling around in the dark...Taxi for the deluded SNP arselickers

Seems you are in the minority as the last i looked the snp are still the biggest party with the most seats so it seems that the majority trust and are happy with snp in goverment ,oh and im not an snp asslicker yet again you show yourself up with your childish namecalling

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Labour, Tories or Lib Dems. Every one would do a better job than the SNP.

Since the SNP came to power the major areas of concern have gone backwards

The Economy - It's floundered under the SNP and forecasts show it won't be improving any time soon

Education - It has also gone backwards. It's gotten to be so bad that the SNP have pulled Scotland out of the international Pisa comparisons as it was embarrasing for them

The NHS - It has gone backwards again under the SNP and some of the KPI's are incredibly bad (I'm thinking specifically of mental health treatement for youngsters)

Local Government - They're cutting local government to the bone in terms of finances.

I know you'll post a load of waffle here about the Tories etc but I can back up every part of the above with facts and figures (and I know you can't

)

Wow just wow same pish as always unionists cant name just one lol

Where are the cuts coming from ? Doubt tou will tell the truth that its the Tories cutting the Scottish budget each fucking year and who gets the blame yup the SNP

Labour even tried to blame the SNP for lack of teachers erm fucking duh its he councils who are in charge of hiring teachers but Labour want you to think its all the SNP fault

Breaking news its fucking snowing see that damn SNP bring the snow lol"

Your reply is even more simple minded than I expected. First of all, every area in Scotland should be performing better than it's English equivalent due to the extra £1437 public spending per head that we have due to the barnett formula.

Secondly, you mention the Scottish NHS is meeting it's targets. You've been through this before and we know that you're only aware of one target, the 4 hour treatment time so to say it's meeting it's targets is a blatant lie (again). Here are some

62 day treatment time for cancer (target 95%)

- Performance is 87% and it has dropped since 2015

12 week treatment time guarantee (target 100%)

- Performance is 80%. Down from 95% 2 years ago and dropping every quarter

18 week referral for treatment (target 90%)

- Performance is 81%, down from 87% 2 years ago

12 week outpatient referral (target 90%)

- Performance is 70%, down from 86% 2 years ago

Cahms treatment for children and young people (target 90%)

- Performance is 73%, same as 2 years ago. This one is a national scandal.

Psychological Therapies (target 90%)

- Performance is 77%, down from 81% 2 years ago

A&E waiting times (target 95%)

- Performance is 94%, down from 96% 2 years ago

So what are these targets you said we were hitting again?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Think you need to google "majority" and "minority". The SNP got slightly more than 1/3 of the votes at the last election. The majority voted for other parties.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Think you need to google "majority" and "minority". The SNP got slightly more than 1/3 of the votes at the last election. The majority voted for other parties."

Read again and you will see he says the SNP are the biggest party in Scotland with the most seats

You can do what other unionists do and try and club together all the unionists seats but in Holyrood i think you will find it only adds up to 59 seats for unionists the SNP have 63 two short of the majority

Oh and in Westminster there is 59 Scottish seats and SNP got 35 which is the majority of Scottish seats lol

Scottish Tory branch mps 13

Scottish Labour branch mps 7

Scottish lib dem branch mps 4

Added them up and only comes to 24

Ouch how embarrassing lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Btw i find it very odd that unionists are using that shite trying to club all unionists votes together to somehow claim victory i see unionists didnt learn a damn thing about joining up with the Tories and what it did to Scottish Labour branch office

Now if you could if its not too embarrassing can you tell everyone how much each unionists branch offices votes did they get remember now EACH no trying ro club together unionist branch office votes to claim victory as that shit is embarrassing lol

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Kinky

You appear to have missed this post exposing your lies about the NHS in Scotland:

First of all, every area in Scotland should be performing better than it's English equivalent due to the extra £1437 public spending per head that we have due to the barnett formula.

62 day treatment time for cancer (target 95%)

- Performance is 87% and it has dropped since 2015

12 week treatment time guarantee (target 100%)

- Performance is 80%. Down from 95% 2 years ago and dropping every quarter

18 week referral for treatment (target 90%)

- Performance is 81%, down from 87% 2 years ago

12 week outpatient referral (target 90%)

- Performance is 70%, down from 86% 2 years ago

Cahms treatment for children and young people (target 90%)

- Performance is 73%, same as 2 years ago. This one is a national scandal.

Psychological Therapies (target 90%)

- Performance is 77%, down from 81% 2 years ago

A&E waiting times (target 95%)

- Performance is 94%, down from 96% 2 years ago

So what are these targets you said we were hitting again?

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Actually things get worse when you look a bit more in depth.

*Over 75,000 Scots went to England for treatment they couldn't get up here. We don't record this figure in Scotland funnily enough so it came from English NHS records.

*The number of people who waited more than 12 weeks for their treatment in 2013 was 1450 but this increased over 800% to 13,300 in March 2017

*74,500 people received planned in patient treatment in the quarter to March 2017 but this was 13,500 less than the same period 3 years before.

*In 2013 5000 people waited more than 16 weeks for their first treatement, this has increased ten fold to 58,000

I could go on but I'll end with a quote from the Nuffield Trust seeing as kinky quoted them:

"The Scottish NHS faces a serious financial predicament. The need for savings is at least as great as for other UK countries, and health boards are struggling to find ways to deliver them. Limited national planning for the next few years and a polarised, hostile political context make an honest national debate difficult. While the strengths of the Scottish NHS could help it to save money, there is also a risk that they are undermined by the intense financial squeeze."

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Yeah ok whatever you say

Problem with that is the Scottish NHS has the best record in the UK you cant hide that fact

Nor can you deny the Nuffield trust have said the English NHS could learn from the Scottish NHS you might wanna put the Scottish NHS but me am fucking glad we have amazing nurses and doctors doing a great job

Here is hoping the rest of the UK can follow the Scottish NHS but like i said withe Tories and Labour do alot better with the NHS in Wales and England wouldnt hold my breath tho

Oh and for all your figures have the took into count all the patients canceling appointments or someone near death in A&E ? They have to be took into consideration too btw

I mean next you will be telking me you know every patients reason for not having appointments or opa cancelled or having to possbily wait for longer in A&E due to someone coming on near death that has to be took straight away

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

[Removed by poster at 29/12/17 23:36:42]

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Now Abi you raised something there that alot of unionists seem to do to try and somehow claim victory by clubbing all unionist votes and shouting out we got the largest vote why is it unionists do that ?

Because you know fine well thats not how it works

So since you since to be so good with figure mind popping up what each unionist branch office got in the elections then we shall look in depth to each unionist branch office vote to the SNP vote and then we shall see who won in Scotland and are the biggest party lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Also Abi am curious to know as you said Scottish Labour branch , Scottish Tory branch and Scottish Lib Dem branch would do better than the SNP correct?

In your opinion then why didnt Scottish people vote for any of the unionist branches ?

Why has Scottish voters not elected a unionist branch office from 2007 - to present day ?

Surely if you believe all unionist branches would do better alot more people would agree with you and not vote SNP since 2007 ?

Actually to nail you on that (no pun) lol which branch office do you think would be better than the present Scottish government ? Name one please

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Yeah ok whatever you say

Problem with that is the Scottish NHS has the best record in the UK you cant hide that fact

Here is hoping the rest of the UK can follow the Scottish NHS but like i said withe Tories and Labour do alot better with the NHS in Wales and England wouldnt hold my breath tho

Oh and for all your figures have the took into count all the patients canceling appointments or someone near death in A&E ? They have to be took into consideration too btw

How does it have the best record? You saying it does means nothing given your track record on here. The NHS is a vast organisation covering many areas of treatment. So what measures are you using? If it's outcomes such as life expectancy then you're completely wrong, and ultimately that is the main outcome we should be looking at.

While we're on the subject of the NHS I see the SNP done their usual thing when they don't like bad news. They've refused to publish the outcome of the NHS staff survey. It was supposed to be published last December but they've scrapped it without publishing the results (a bit like the PISA tests for education). Given that in the previous survey 46% of those who responded said they were unable to do their job properly because they were overworked you've got to wonder just how bad the last one was.

The SNP, letting our nurses and doctors down and then trying to hide the fact. Shameful

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Yeah ok whatever you say

Problem with that is the Scottish NHS has the best record in the UK you cant hide that fact

Here is hoping the rest of the UK can follow the Scottish NHS but like i said withe Tories and Labour do alot better with the NHS in Wales and England wouldnt hold my breath tho

Oh and for all your figures have the took into count all the patients canceling appointments or someone near death in A&E ? They have to be took into consideration too btw

The SNP, letting our nurses and doctors down and then trying to hide the fact. Shameful

So let me get this right you dont think the Scottish NHS has the best record in the UK ? Ok care to say which countries NHS do you believe has the best record in the UK ?

Plus Abi are you honestly calling the Nuffield trust liars ? Did they or did they not say the English NHS could learn from the Scottish NHS ?

Its not the SNP letting doctors and nurses down i mean come on when did you see any doctors or nurses in Scotland go on strike or the Red Cross go into the Scottish NHS calling it a crisis eh ?

Afraid its you that is putting those doctors and nurses down in our NHS in Scotland be bloody thankful of the job they do and praise them for the hard work dont put them down

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

PS Abi care to answer the other points you raised that i have asked you about

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The block grant to Scotland has increased this year, don't believe the brainwashed nats.

2016/17 £30,274bn

2017/18 £31,348bn

2018/19 £31,867bn

Figures from here: http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/12/8959/20

The snp cut funding to local authorities last year by £167m, initially they wanted it to be £350m but the couldn't get their budget passed and were forced into a humiliating u turn.

This years budget has not yet been passed, and there are even more cuts to local authority budgets.

The snp have said LA,s can increase council tax by up to 3% to mitigate this snp imposed austerity.

That in itself, wipes out the laughable 38p per week tax break for the poorest in Scotland.

Don't believe the snp on this!

Block grant increased, LA budgets slashed.

Austerity in Scotland is entirely the responsibility of this snp executive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The block grant to Scotland has increased this year, don't believe the brainwashed nats.

2016/17 £30,274bn

2017/18 £31,348bn

2018/19 £31,867bn

Figures from here: http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/12/8959/20

The snp cut funding to local authorities last year by £167m, initially they wanted it to be £350m but the couldn't get their budget passed and were forced into a humiliating u turn.

This years budget has not yet been passed, and there are even more cuts to local authority budgets.

The snp have said LA,s can increase council tax by up to 3% to mitigate this snp imposed austerity.

That in itself, wipes out the laughable 38p per week tax break for the poorest in Scotland.

Don't believe the snp on this!

Block grant increased, LA budgets slashed.

Austerity in Scotland is entirely the responsibility of this snp executive. "

The figures you quoted should be £m not £bn.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Wow wake up this morning to see a real eye opener on the Wings over Scotland page

Unionists that are well off putting money into "Scotland in the union " people like dukes , duchesses , earls , lords and alot of them coming from outside of Scotland

Very shady things going on like giving £7,499 to Scotland in the union strange as fuck as that is £1 below the £7,500 mark that the electoral commission requires funders to political organistions such as "Scotland in the union" to be publicly identified

Now even if you hate Wings over Scotland surly you must agree that this short of thing is very shady stuff

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Like i said this is why unionists hate Wings over Scotland with a passion and try gag him as he is exposing lies and shady stuff going on from the elite unionists

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Canvassing for donations. Normal.

Not wanting public disclosure. Understandable.

Cash in the bank at a period of low electioneering. Seems sensible.

What’s shady ?

IMO the shadiness is added by wings.

“I do hope they’re not ordered by wealth”. Yet provides no evidence.

“All plummy sounding english”. Looking at the names in the (un)ordered ssheet many sound like good Scottish names .... I’d need to see how they selected who to call before even starting to take this on face value.

The real story here is the horrible data protection issues and should a party (or whatever they are) who is so piss poor at the basics be trusted. Here I would agree with you.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Canvassing for donations. Normal.

Not wanting public disclosure. Understandable.

Cash in the bank at a period of low electioneering. Seems sensible.

What’s shady ?

IMO the shadiness is added by wings.

“I do hope they’re not ordered by wealth”. Yet provides no evidence.

The real story here is the horrible data protection issues and should a party (or whatever they are) who is so piss poor at the basics be trusted. Here I would agree with you.

Yes i do agree Scotland in the union have alot to answer to on the data protection

But not find it abit fucking weird people are giving £7,499 they must know that is £1 below limit at which the electoral comission require funders from political organistions to be publicly identified

Very shady stuff

So like i said for all those that hate Wings over Scotland is what he has exposed today lies and should not be believed ? Its all there in black and white

Again this is why unionists are so damn keen to gag Wings over Scotland as he is exposing stuff they do not want the public to know about

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

I suspect the SNP also has a number of donators £1 below the threshold. However to their credit they are not so incompetent to allow this MI to get out.

However, like I said earlier, it’s not that wings lie. But they use prose in a disingenuous way which allows others to *read between the lines* to things that may not be there.

That is this dog whistling which is dangerous imo.

Eg you see this as shady because the story has no balance. If the SNP stated none of their donators followed this practice I’d be more inclined to say it is shady (I’d still say it’s just sensible).

They then insinuate illegal practices through a rhetorical question. Either have the balls to say it (and then front to any accusation of lies) or keep schtum. Otherwise your claims they don’t lie, while factually correct, hold very little value in the debate.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

I would have thought alot of unionists would be thanking Wings from bring that to peoples attention

I mean say your a unionists wanting to put money into Scotland in the union at your personal data is up there for everyone to see

I think Scotland in the union have a legal obligation to report this to the police oh and am sure a fine would be on its way lol

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

"I would have thought alot of unionists would be thanking Wings from bring that to peoples attention

I mean say your a unionists wanting to put money into Scotland in the union at your personal data is up there for everyone to see

I think Scotland in the union have a legal obligation to report this to the police oh and am sure a fine would be on its way lol

"
in he interest if not appearing like I’m just on a witch hunt, I agree.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I suspect the SNP also has a number of donators £1 below the threshold. However to their credit they are not so incompetent to allow this MI to get out.

However, like I said earlier, it’s not that wings lie. But they use prose in a disingenuous way which allows others to *read between the lines* to things that may not be there.

That is this dog whistling which is dangerous imo.

Wow thats a bold statement to make accusing the SNP having donators giving £1below the therahold without bugger all evidence to back that claim up

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

It’s a suspicion. As I say. Not a statement of fact.

However I’m not an investigative journalist. I’m simply saying it would be more balanced to see if it was indeed a one sided practice or common practice.

Or indeed i would need that before making a bold statement like saying a practice is shady. Otherwise its without evidence. Unless you are willing to say that if the SNP appear to do the same thing the are shady. In which case fair.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

OH btw i find it weird you only went to say SNP never brought up any other party

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

"OH btw i find it weird you only went to say SNP never brought up any other party "
ffs. I chose them because 1) they are the largest party so indicative of the norm. 2) relevant to you and wings. If they questioned every unionist party and got the same results you’d still call it shady. Balance is considering your own side may be the same as the others.

I have no skin in the game when it comes to Scotland. The closest I have is an English aunt who works in the Scottish NHS. I am just a geek who likes looking at how arguments are presented and calling out any holes in the argument. If you are feeling persecuted that is not my intention. You’re just a rarity in you quote sources for your beliefs. (Which is appreciated !

)

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"OH btw i find it weird you only went to say SNP never brought up any other party ffs. I chose them because 1) they are the largest party so indicative of the norm. 2) relevant to you and wings. If they questioned every unionist party and got the same results you’d still call it shady. Balance is considering your own side may be the same as the others.

Ok you say you suspect the SNP have donators giving £1below the threshold with no evidence

So do you also suspect the Tories ,Labour ,Lib Dem ,Greens of the same or is that an attack on the SNP alone ?

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

)

Ok you say you suspect the SNP have donators giving £1below the threshold with no evidence

So do you also suspect the Tories ,Labour ,Lib Dem ,Greens of the same or is that an attack on the SNP alone ? "

I wouldn’t be surprised if all parties have a similar distribution of donations. Many people would wish to keep their political persuasions private and this seems the best way while giving the most support.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Well i suspect after today the image of Scotland in the union and trust has gone lol

Oh well they were a nasty bunch that only loved to bash SNP and Independence and soon as anyone from the pro Indy side tried to debate they would block if we weren't bashing the SNP or Independence people were not welcome challenge them your blocked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imagine someone calling you allsorts of names and when you try and ask for an explanation at the personal abuse they block you........What a hypocrite some people are ...but then like all cowards they hide when asked to explain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you need to google "majority" and "minority". The SNP got slightly more than 1/3 of the votes at the last election. The majority voted for other parties."

I dont need to google anything im just stating facts the snp got more votes and seats than the other parties ,now if you are trying to put tories lab and libs all together when your counting votes maybe they should all merge and just become the scottish unionist as all 3 only have one policy and that is to stop independence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The truth is it is the SNP who are going to stop independence.

Piss poor governance and a lack of political nous is now being shown. The cuckoo act of stealing the left of centre vote but acting for the right has been noted. They are now alienating there voters .....The other parties will plough the furrow they always have...No need to knock the SNP they are self destructing....

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"The truth is it is the SNP who are going to stop independence.

Milli you seem to be all over the place i remember you saying the SNP have only one policy " independence" then your claiming they have no polices lol

Piss poor governance ? Really do enlighten us all why is it the Scottish voters have voted SNP for 10 years now ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The truth is it is the SNP who are going to stop independence.

Got to disagree as im sure others who are happy with snp goverment the snp will be in goverment for a long time to come as ppl trust them to do what is best for scotland unlike the unionist parties ,as for independence when there is another vote im pretty confident it will be a yes this time just my opinion

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Interesting that

Question for unionists who do you think have Scotlands best interests at heart that are standing up for the people of Scotland ?

Name one just one as i have yet to see a unionist be bold enough to just name one

Here i will start it off for you i believe the SNP have the best interests at heart for Scotland

Who do you believe ? Dont be ashamed to say now lol

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The figures you quoted should be £m not £bn."

Correct, it should be millions.

I cant edit but I,ll leave it as is with this statement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will use an analogy a guy in my office used the other day....re Who has Scotlands best interests at heart..

I would play my heart out for my football team...bust every sinew but at the end of the day i am over the hill and shite at football now.

The SNP over the hill and mostly shit, i am being kind at mostly as well

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I will use an analogy a guy in my office used the other day....re Who has Scotlands best interests at heart..

I would play my heart out for my football team...bust every sinew but at the end of the day i am over the hill and shite at football now.

The SNP over the hill and mostly shit, i am being kind at mostly as well

Yawn lol

What i did notice is failure to name who you believe has Scotlands best interests at heart ? Care to to share ? Or cant you name just one ? God they must be piss poor and that infact you think the SNP are doing just fine i know you will do everything you can to not name one lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will use an analogy a guy in my office used the other day....re Who has Scotlands best interests at heart..

I would play my heart out for my football team...bust every sinew but at the end of the day i am over the hill and shite at football now.

The SNP over the hill and mostly shit, i am being kind at mostly as well

As i have said you are in the minority as shown by the snp still getting more votes and seats than the other parties and will keep doing so as they are better than the rest and trusted more ,i know its something you dont like to here but youl just have to live with it

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

That's a lie for a start, the snp got 36.9% of the votes cast in the 2017 general election.

Why must you tell such glaring lies?

What does that say for you as a person, if you are willing to knowingly tell lies?

It's one thing for politicians to do it, they can't help themselves.

But for ordinary people on an internet forum to lie and mislead others, that suggests to me that you are untrustworthy and should be treated with the contempt you deserve.

The worst part is, you won't even accept you do!

All anyone needs to do is go to Google and search for General Election Scotland Results 2017.

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Yawn.

Can we not just agree you can get the majority of seats without having the majority of the votes ... but by being the largest minority.

Arguing semantics is cheap point scoring.

(And I’m giving the benefit of the doubt here ... sometimes I suspect people don’t even get what they’re arguing against)

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Semantics are one thing, downright lies are another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's a lie for a start, the snp got 36.9% of the votes cast in the 2017 general election.

Why must you tell such glaring lies?

What does that say for you as a person, if you are willing to knowingly tell lies?

It's one thing for politicians to do it, they can't help themselves.

But for ordinary people on an internet forum to lie and mislead others, that suggests to me that you are untrustworthy and should be treated with the contempt you deserve.

The worst part is, you won't even accept you do!

All anyone needs to do is go to Google and search for General Election Scotland Results 2017.

Whos telling lies ? as you are aware the 3 unionist parties have not merged yet so its votes for individual parties so snp more votes more seats id have thought that was pretty simple to understand before you start calling ppl lairs

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"That's a lie for a start, the snp got 36.9% of the votes cast in the 2017 general election.

Why must you tell such glaring lies?

What does that say for you as a person, if you are willing to knowingly tell lies?

It's one thing for politicians to do it, they can't help themselves.

But for ordinary people on an internet forum to lie and mislead others, that suggests to me that you are untrustworthy and should be treated with the contempt you deserve.

The worst part is, you won't even accept you do!

All anyone needs to do is go to Google and search for General Election Scotland Results 2017.

God they sure do love trying to club together all the unionists branch office votes eh lol

You would have thought many would have learned from 2014 to not join up with the Tories look what happened to Scottish Labour branch lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Semantics are one thing, downright lies are another.

Out of interest to solve this and see if it may help you can you tell me in the 2017 UK election how many votes did each party/ branch office get

SNP - ?

Scottish Labour branch - ?

Scottish Tory branch - ?

Scottish Lib dem branch ?

Then tell us all who got the most votes you cannot club together the 3 unionist branch offices votes thats not how it works and you know this fine well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Kinky we have so little in common you seem wedded to the dying of the light.. But have a Happy New Year xx

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Happy New Year to you to Millie when it comes

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"the snp still getting more VOTES and seats than the OTHER PARTIES "

Are they getting more votes than the other parties?

Note "other parties", the poster is making the other parties singular, putting them together.

He is the one making them into a single entity.

He is wrong of course, in that the snp got more votes than them.

They got 36.9% and the "other parties" got 62%.

I see kinky you are responding to me now, you've been avoiding my post for weeks now.

Thanks for the change in heart.

AND HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Happy New year all you sour plums lol

Maybe in 2018 you could talk Scotland up and not all this doom and gloom

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

"Happy New year all you sour plums lol

Maybe in 2018 you could talk Scotland up and not all this doom and gloom "

HNY kinky. I do enjoy seeing the more diverse political views. And blogs.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Happy New year all you sour plums lol

Maybe in 2018 you could talk Scotland up and not all this doom and gloom "

you can talk up scotland and we all do...

the issue most of us have with you kinky is that you like to blame westminster for all your woes when actually most of the decisions are made in the SNP governed holyrood parliament of which you seem to always give a free pass to

see... the information you pass on here is at best disengenious at the best of times.... and flat out lying via wangs at the worst... and instead of holding your hands up and saying "well actually i was wrong" which would gain you more respect in the long run, you go down the trump route of doubling down on the falsehood... or trying to bait and switch the topic...

you may not see yourself as being anti-english, but that is the way you tend to come across......

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

I,m not here to talk up or down.

When I see misrepresentations, fantasy interpretations, willful omissions of known facts and downright lies, I will confront them.

If that is objectionable to you, then 2018 will be no different to 2017.

Business as usual.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

I see we go into 2018 with lies

Yes the Scottish government can decide where money gets spend from the set budget given to Scotland by the UK treasury but money is not devolved you all know fine well

Also you know fine well that devolved powers have been given to Scotland but see when Westminster still hold power of some

For Example Fabio tell the truth the welfare powers Scotland were to get only some of that power would be devolved and Westminster would still retain some of welfare powers lets get that right lol

Also the income tax powers will they help ? Not much is the answer as the Scottish government cant control the basic personal allowance that thing that affects every taxpayer come on you should know this unless your conning people on here lol

What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ?

Ah the anti English shite again wondered when that crap would come up lol

So because i believe in independence for Scotland that somehow makes me anti English lmao yeah ok

Give me example of me being anti English ?

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

A fairly balanced post.

I’m intrigued why you see the personal allowance as limiting the ability to raise additional taxes. I would have though you’d want to target the top brackets. Not the bottom.

And just remember,just because someone is pro union, doesn’t mean they are anti Scotland.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Infact less go through them together a wee few home truths about to be exposed about these myths about the powers the Scottish government already have that that unionists say they can use ok lets list them

Raise the minimum wage - Nope cant thats reserved to Westminster and opposed by the Scottish Labour branch in the Smith Commission

Reduce VAT to cut prices - Nope thats reserved to Westminster

Corporation tax - Nope reserved to Westminster

Fuel duty - Nope reversed to Westminster

Cut defence spend - oh wait nope reversed Westminster

Oil - you guessed it reversed to Westminster

How about getting people into the country Scotland btw - nope immigration reversed to Westminster

Renewable energy which i think is the way to go - but yeah once again reversed to Wesminster

See the pattern ? Now the Scotland act was a trick to try and kill off independence now more and more are waking up to see Westminster is corrupt and lets end Westminster rule they do not own Scotland the will of the people will tell them what we want and we dont them

Now if Scotland really is the most powerful parilament in the world surely we should have power over all these and the big one the power to hold a legall binding referendum on Scottish independence after all the people of Scotland have spoken and elected a party into government in Scotland with the manifesto policy to hold a referendum thats a mandate and in our parliament the section 30 order passed 69 -59 thats a democratic vote that took place and should not be ignored

Hell what is it that unionists really fear about having a binding referendum you still will be able to vote no whats the trouble not like democracy in action ? Lol

Democracy is not an event and you should really know this as every 5year an election happens where you are allowed to change your mind on the government and boot them out so why not with a referendum if things like the vow broken promises people arw allowed to change there minds on independence time to grow a pair and let democracy stand

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Some of those are just common sense tho...

Vat. Isn’t that down to EU where you can’t have varying levels in one member state ?

Defence. Makes sense, it’s UK forces and a UK interest. If Scotland cut it to nil they’d still be protected by the rest of the country.

Immigration. Similar. How do you manage this without a hard border.

Now you do have some valid points I couldn’t strike off immediately. But some of those does make it sound like you’re just striking out.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Ok the big question which powers do people want the Scottish government to use ?

This is always a bg one on here is people moaning that the Scottish government should use the powers they already have ok then be bold enough and tell us then what powers you want them to use no point in use saying it please name them

Immigration i told you is a busted flush the Tories fucked up when they were all ready for giving N.Ireland a special deal and no hard border

So if N.Ireland can get it then yeah so can Scotland

i know your gonna make the case for the good Friday agreement

but the point still stands if its good enough for Ireland then yeah the Tories have been caught out but yeah i suspect when Scotland has its independence referendum then i bet you any money the Tories will use that shite about having a hard border because lets face it they dont have much more to sell Scotland of staying in the UK the promises from 2014 piece of shite and all of them broken if anyone wants to challenge that then be my guessed name one promise from 2014 they have kept ?

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Raise income taxes ? It’s the power they have yet seem reluctant to use it to any great extent.

And there is still no point talking about NI until we know what the actual solution looks like. Because if it requires then Irish Sea then it doesn’t help Scotland.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Raise income taxes ? It’s the power they have yet seem reluctant to use it to any great extent.

And there is still no point talking about NI until we know what the actual solution looks like. Because if it requires then Irish Sea then it doesn’t help Scotland. "

So raise income tax is your answer then ?

Ok like i said before the Scottish government cant control the basic personal allowance that affects every tax payer

Yeah they could tinker it abit with upper rates but it wont bring in much in extra cash tell me am wrong ?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I see we go into 2018 with lies

Yes the Scottish government can decide where money gets spend from the set budget given to Scotland by the UK treasury but money is not devolved you all know fine well

Also you know fine well that devolved powers have been given to Scotland but see when Westminster still hold power of some

For Example Fabio tell the truth the welfare powers Scotland were to get only some of that power would be devolved and Westminster would still retain some of welfare powers lets get that right lol

What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ?

Ah the anti English shite again wondered when that crap would come up lol

So because i believe in independence for Scotland that somehow makes me anti English lmao yeah ok

Give me example of me being anti English ? "

since you called me out on welfare powers....

the devolved powers you will get this coming april on welfare mean you get to administer them in whatever way you see fit.....

you can't create anymore benefits , if you want to take away the bedroom tax element for example (i know thats a pet peeve of yours) you can do so as long as it comes out of the general block grant.... same as free prescription, and same as free tuition!

see in the real world if you give to some, you have to take away from others to balance the books!

you play down the personal income tax bit... the scottish government CAN actually change it by up to +/- 3p of the rates set by westminster and CAN change thresholds, which is what they are actually going to do! (so if the snp wished, they could put the basic bit anywhere from 17p up to 23p).... which is potentially a huge amount!!

the issue with the way that the snp are trying to spin it is that are only raising taxes on the wealthy....

the problem is that the most anyone will see in a tax cut is £20 per year... and they are raiding the middle class and "just about managings"

again like most things in kinkys world... the holyrood administration seem not to want to use powers they already have !

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

You’re wrong. The top rate tax payers pay a disproportionate amount of the income tax. This is where the leverage is. Pissing about with the personal allowance will get lost in the rounding for many peoples average tax rate. But will screw over those on lower incomes. It’s a Tory move if anything ....

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I see we go into 2018 with lies

Yes the Scottish government can decide where money gets spend from the set budget given to Scotland by the UK treasury but money is not devolved you all know fine well

Also you know fine well that devolved powers have been given to Scotland but see when Westminster still hold power of some

For Example Fabio tell the truth the welfare powers Scotland were to get only some of that power would be devolved and Westminster would still retain some of welfare powers lets get that right lol

What powers do you want the Scottish government to use ?

Ah the anti English shite again wondered when that crap would come up lol

So because i believe in independence for Scotland that somehow makes me anti English lmao yeah ok

Give me example of me being anti English ?

since you called me out on welfare powers....

the devolved powers you will get this coming april on welfare mean you get to administer them in whatever way you see fit.....

see in the real world if you give to some, you have to take away from others to balance the books!

the issue with the way that the snp are trying to spin it is that are only raising taxes on the wealthy....

the problem is that the most anyone will see in a tax cut is £20 per year... and they are raiding the middle class and "just about managings"

again like most things in kinkys world... the holyrood administration seem not to want to use powers they already have !"

Nope wont do you never answered it

So again in a yes or no answer So the welfare powers will Scotland get full control over welfare ? Or will Westminster still have some power ? Tell the truth

Again your using this shite so what powers is it again you want the Scottish government to use ? No point in saying they can use the powers they already have name them please

I have given you all the ones i keep hearing about but problem for unionists they are all reversed to Westminster

Seems a fair amount are shit feart to give Scotland full control over these powers incase it shows up Westminster and proves Scotland can go it alone and make a better fairer Scotland

Oh and did you know in the pro indy movement there is actually English born people that believe and want Scotland to be indpendent so there goes the unionist myth that pro indy side is anti English

Not once have i said any of you are anti Scottish i get you believe in the union fair enough but yeah i sick fed up of Westminster and there corruption and thinking they can rule over Scotland when again we didnt vote Tory so why should we get forced with Tory cuts and the best people can come up with if your not happy just mitigate it yeah ok i see what your doing feart to give real devolved power to Scotland incase it really shows Westminster up as a fucking joke and we in Scotland can to better than that shit show in London i.e Westminster

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Wanna see how much the British media lie to you

Check the Guardian

They have printed that Scottish Labour branch office seen as radicals by the youth Yeah right we believe you yet not been in government in 2007 lol

And in a poll

16-36 years old - Scottish Labour branch - 26%

16 -36 years old - SNP - 51%

Then the poll i started off with

If a referendum was to be held on Scottish independence before the UK leaves the EU and if a yes vote meant 100% an independent Scotland being in the EU

16-36 years old - 66% YES

16-36 years old - 34% NO

read what you will but the youth seem to want Scottish independence and the older people are fighting against it so do the math and Scotland at one point will be independent the youth is our future and they stuid they can see what is going on and what effects Westminster is having on them

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Nope wont do you never answered it

So again in a yes or no answer So the welfare powers will Scotland get full control over welfare ? Or will Westminster still have some power ? Tell the truth

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/fairerscotland/Social-Security/Powers/Devolved-benefts

the ones you can change whatever way you wish are the first groups....

the ones that are reserved means you can't change them, BUT you can make descesionary payments over and above them if you want (i.e getting rid of the bedroom tax element)

and they will ALL be administered by the Devolved Scottish administration!!!

kinky... if you are going to try talk to someone with regards to who's job it has been to help with all the changes.... Don't try bringing a knife to a gun fight!!!!!

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Nope wont do you never answered it

So again in a yes or no answer So the welfare powers will Scotland get full control over welfare ? Or will Westminster still have some power ? Tell the truth

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/fairerscotland/Social-Security/Powers/Devolved-benefts

the ones you can change whatever way you wish are the first groups....

the ones that are reserved means you can't change them, BUT you can make descesionary payments over and above them if you want (i.e getting rid of the bedroom tax element)

and they will ALL be administered by the Devolved Scottish administration!!!

kinky... if you are going to try talk to someone with regards to who's job it has been to help with all the changes.... Don't try bringing a knife to a gun fight!!!!!

Ah right so Fabio to confirm this are you really saying the welfare powers Scotland will NOT get full control over ? Sounds like you are lol

Does that sound like a form of Home Rule ? Dont think so lol

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The other one i see on here quite alot about creating new benefits so thats extra money that has to be found on top of the current Scottish budget

So question for people wanting that what you want the Scottish government to cut ?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The other one i see on here quite alot about creating new benefits so thats extra money that has to be found on top of the current Scottish budget

So question for people wanting that what you want the Scottish government to cut ?"

well you had to find money somewhere when you gave free tuition.... and you had to find money somewhere when you gave free prescriptions.... so what did you cut then to be able to pay from them????

actually.... the question should be reversed back to you kinky.......

"since they made those cuts back then, what are you prepared to cut more now to pay for increased benefits.... (or what taxes are you prepared to increase to cover those!)"

because at the moment the holyrood administrations answer seems to be "tax the middle and lower middle class!"

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"The other one i see on here quite alot about creating new benefits so thats extra money that has to be found on top of the current Scottish budget

So question for people wanting that what you want the Scottish government to cut ?

well you had to find money somewhere when you gave free tuition.... and you had to find money somewhere when you gave free prescriptions.... so what did you cut then to be able to pay from them????

actually.... the question should be reversed back to you kinky.......

"since they made those cuts back then, what are you prepared to cut more now to pay for increased benefits.... (or what taxes are you prepared to increase to cover those!)"

because at the moment the holyrood administrations answer seems to be "tax the middle and lower middle class!""

I believe the question was put to you so again.So question for people wanting that what you want the Scottish government to cut ?

I hear this alot on here about creating new benefits so speak up where is the extra money going to come from to create these new benefits ?

You all talk a good game but when questioned on this stuff nothing lol

So in all you all want the Scottish government to use the powers they have but when challenged you all go shy and wont tell me what powers you want them to use

Then when asked about creating new benefits and where you find the extra money to create them nothing again

PS Fabio to confirm this are you really saying the welfare powers Scotland will NOT get full control over ?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

PS Fabio to confirm this are you really saying the welfare powers Scotland will NOT get full control over ?

FFS how many more times do you need to be told, which is why i went to the scottish governments own website to show you!

the top ones you can control as you wish

the bottom ones you can't cut, but you CAN ADD DISCRETIONARY PAYMENTS TO THEM IF YOU WANT... BUT IT COMES OUT OF SCOTLAND'S OWN BUDGET!

so unless you want to cut or abolish Universal Credit

or Contributory Job Seekers Allowance

or Contributory Employment Support Allowance

or Child Benefit

or Maternity Allowance

or the State Pension

or Pension Credit

and if that is what you want the power to do.... then you are ideolocially warped in the head...

like i say.... you bring the knife... I'll bring the flame-thrower!

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Fabio i think you missed answering these lol

I believe the question was put to you so again.So question for people wanting that what you want the Scottish government to cut ?

I hear this alot on here about creating new benefits so speak up where is the extra money going to come from to create these new benefits ?

You all talk a good game but when questioned on this stuff nothing lol

So in all you all want the Scottish government to use the powers they have but when challenged you all go shy and wont tell me what powers you want them to use

Then when asked about creating new benefits and where you find the extra money to create them nothing again

Again Fabio to confirm as you saying Scotland does NOT have full control over welfare ? Simple yes or no Sure as hell sounds like you are So thats not really Home Rule is it ?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

How hard is it to really answer these questions

1. The people that want the Scottish government to create new benefits so speak up where is the extra money going to come from to create these new benefits ?

2. You want the Scottish government to use the powers they have but when challenged you all go shy and wont tell me what powers you want them to use is it really that hard to tell me what powers you want them to use ? Lol

Like i said you all talk a good game but fall silent the minute you are asked these very questions

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Money could be saved in various areas, an easy one would be to stop paying tuition fees for wealthy EU students to come here and study and make them pay instead (note that you can get your tuition fees covered for any country from the EU but if you're English don't, which is ridiculous).

So basically tax payers are paying tens of millions for wealthy EU students (I've seen figures of over £70 million a year and that's supposed to be a low estimate) at the expense of the poorest members of society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's not an issue that Scotland can control, as it's EU law. However, the exit from the EU may stop this, if rules/laws the EU put in place can be revoked.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"That's not an issue that Scotland can control, as it's EU law. However, the exit from the EU may stop this, if rules/laws the EU put in place can be revoked. "

Scottish govt have announced that it will continue for the next few years at least.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is nothing they can change at the moment. Anything after leaving the EU will need to be put to vote I'd think.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Money could be saved in various areas, an easy one would be to stop paying tuition fees for wealthy EU students to come here and study and make them pay instead (note that you can get your tuition fees covered for any country from the EU but if you're English don't, which is ridiculous).

Ok i see you had to have the dig abiut English students having to pay their tuition fees if they come to Scotland to study

Now would you like to tell the whole truth and not miss anything out now wouldnt want you misleading people now

The reason why English students pay for their tuition fees if they come to Scotland to study is because if a Scottish student were to go to England to study they would have to pay tuition fees

Education should be free everyone is entited to a free eduation i wish England would do the same

I mean what the fuck does it tell people if your rich you can pay your way into Uni if your poor fuck you

So any more ways you can think of if you want the Scottish government to create new benefits where is the extra money going to come from ? Where do you want them to cut ?

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Ok i see you had to have the dig abiut English students having to pay their tuition fees if they come to Scotland to study

Now would you like to tell the whole truth and not miss anything out now wouldnt want you misleading people now

The reason why English students pay for their tuition fees if they come to Scotland to study is because if a Scottish student were to go to England to study they would have to pay tuition fees

Education should be free everyone is entited to a free eduation i wish England would do the same

I mean what the fuck does it tell people if your rich you can pay your way into Uni if your poor fuck you

So any more ways you can think of if you want the Scottish government to create new benefits where is the extra money going to come from ? Where do you want them to cut ?

No, you're completely wrong again. Many EU countries have tution fees and someone from Scotland going to study there would need to pay them.

Secondly we are paying tens of millions for relatively well off people to come here and study for free (at the expense of Scottish students)

Thirdly, free tuition fees doesn't help the poorest students it helps the wealthiest. To fund free tuition fees bursaries have been cut and this is the main barrier to studying for students from poorer backgrounds. As a comparison of just how badly it is up here, in Scotland an 18 year old from a wealthy background is 4 times more likely to go to Uni than someone from a poorer one. In England they are only 2 times more likely. That's a massive difference and a massive failure of the policy.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Ps just to add to that

Could you imagine if English students didnt need to pay tuition fees in Scotland how many would then think erm do i pay for my education here in England or go to Scotland where its free and by doing so that takes a place up where a Scottish student may want to go

So question is would you then want Scottish students missing out on going to Uni because there is no place for them ?

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

LandA

If you want the Scottish government to create new benefits where is the extra money coming from ?

Also want powers do you want the Scottish government to use ? Please not the income tax crap as it would appear thats the only answer unionists can actually give can you not tell me any other powers you want them to use ? Lol

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Are you deliberately trying to avoid the fact you've been caught lying again. Scottish students have to pay tuition fees in EU countries that charge them, so why are they able to come here and get free tuition while students in England can't?

Also, something else you won't be aware of is that less than half the students at the top Scottish Uni's are actually Scottish. In Edinburgh it's less than a third. Why is this? Simply because the number is capped and also because the amount the govt pay them is fairly low it means they universities are trying to target welathy foreign students (English and non EU) to make up the shortfalls, at the expense of Scottish students.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"LandA

If you want the Scottish government to create new benefits where is the extra money coming from ?

The extra money is coming from the extra taxes the Scottish Government is charging.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

I forgot to add as well, the Scottish government places a limit on the number of Scottish students who get free tuition fees. There is no limit on the number of EU students they will pay free tuition fees for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is not an argument.

EU law states that residents cannot be discriminated against by the rules of another country. The Scottish government therefore cannot demand EU students pay tuition fees but since the rest of the UK's governance chose not to pay tuition fees, it is not the responsibility of Scotland.

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

I do wonder why people om here that love to tell us all that the Scottish government should use the powers they already have and when challenged on this very issue nothing

Again what powers do you want the Scottish government to actually use ? I will not accept the income tax powers because i notice a trend in here thats the only answers you give so looking for other powers you want them to use ?

I listed off the powers they cant use as its reversed to Westminster

So the floor is yous as they say ? Lol

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"This is not an argument.

The Scottish govt chose to go down the route of giving free tuition fees at the expense of financial support for students. It's a failure of a policy thae penalises the poorest and the fact it sees tens of millions going to relatively well off EU students makes it even worse.

Scotland is the only country in the UK where the poorest students end up with higher levels of debt than wealthies students.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"I do wonder why people om here that love to tell us all that the Scottish government should use the powers they already have and when challenged on this very issue nothing

I listed off the powers they cant use as its reversed to Westminster

So the floor is yous as they say ? Lol "

If they don't use powers, they should be taken away, they obviously don't need them, or want them, or have aby intention of using them. It also shows they don't need any additional powers.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"How hard is it to really answer these questions

1. The people that want the Scottish government to create new benefits so speak up where is the extra money going to come from to create these new benefits ?"

you tell me.... you are the one who always goes back to wanting to abolish the bedroom tax subsidy

I have never advocated creating new benefits... I have said there are options for the scottish govt to do so IF they decide that you want to...

after all... you "found" the money out of the budget for tuition... and you "found" the money out of the budget for prescriptions.... so where you going to "find" the money to cover the bedroom tax?

" 2. You want the Scottish government to use the powers they have but when challenged you all go shy and wont tell me what powers you want them to use is it really that hard to tell me what powers you want them to use ? Lol

again.... you tell me, YOU are the one who harps on about the bedroom tax, but the scottish govt have the tools to rectify it already if they really, really wanted to!

maybe the sore but brutal truth for you is that they consider free tuition for example to be a higher priority than the removal of the bedroom tax.... and that eats you up....

and since "wings" hasn't given you a talking point you can parrot on the issue... that is why you duck and dive and bait and switch

"Like i said you all talk a good game but fall silent the minute you are asked these very questions

no... you think you are being smart... when in fact you are being quite childish and padantic

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By *inkyHnS OP Couple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I do wonder why people om here that love to tell us all that the Scottish government should use the powers they already have and when challenged on this very issue nothing

I listed off the powers they cant use as its reversed to Westminster

So the floor is yous as they say ? Lol

If they don't use powers, they should be taken away, they obviously don't need them, or want them, or have aby intention of using them. It also shows they don't need any additional powers. "

CLCC is this really a hard question for you got you stumped ?

By all means what powers that the Scottish government already have do you want them to use ? Again look above i listed the powers that are reversed to Westminster so which powers again do you want them to use ?

This is why people are getting fed up with bullshit is pro unionists are using this shite and when challenged cant name a single power oh wait its the usual income tax powers i get from you

so does that mean CLCC you cant get past that and think of any other powers ? lol