FabSwingers.com forum: A 2nd referendum

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

Agreed, but the rules were agreed prior to the referendum. If people were uneasy, then they should have made their views heard before the event.

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By *ilent.KnightMan
over a year ago

Swindon

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

Agreed, but the rules were agreed prior to the referendum. If people were uneasy, then they should have made their views heard before the event."
the rules also agreed it was advisory. I suspect the hubris of many remainers would have assumed the politicians would err on the side of caution at a close result.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

Agreed, but the rules were agreed prior to the referendum. If people were uneasy, then they should have made their views heard before the event.the rules also agreed it was advisory. I suspect the hubris of many remainers would have assumed the politicians would err on the side of caution at a close result. "

I agree. It was the arrogance of the Government at the time.

That said how would "people" make their views heard?

The Scottish referendum was held, also I think strangely, on the same basis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

I agree. It was the arrogance of the Government at the time.

That said how would "people" make their views heard?

The Scottish referendum was held, also I think strangely, on the same basis."

Why strange?

Say you hold a referendum on a 60/40 basis and 59% vote against 41%..... are you saying the 41% have won?....

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

I agree for a major change the majority needs to be 60:40. I also think we need a second referendum once the terms of the divorce are known.

A strong vote one way or the other would clear the air.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Should it be 60:40 in parliament then? In EU parliament votes? In union ballots for industrial action?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

I agree. It was the arrogance of the Government at the time.

That said how would "people" make their views heard?

The Scottish referendum was held, also I think strangely, on the same basis.

Why strange?

Say you hold a referendum on a 60/40 basis and 59% vote against 41%..... are you saying the 41% have won?...."

For changes which are to all intents and purposes are irreversible then yes.

Most legislation can be reversed if there is a demand to do so in a general election. If a piece of legislation is unpopular enough then a party with a policy to do this can be voted in.

However, a one off decision with generational consequences needs a much clearer majority. Too much of most referenda is to do with the popularity of the Government at that particular point in time or the intervention of individuals or the media.

If a government is smart the 41:59 "win" for the status quo implies that something isn't right and should be significantly altered. There is a message in the number.

This message was ignored in the Brexit referendum. There was not an " overwhelming" majority for Brexit let alone one for a hard exit. The message was find a compromise, especially considering the voting demographic. The latest polling results (although only one so far) indicate this.

It's done though. On 52:48, a figure that Farage said would be inconclusive if it went the other way. However, there is information on that ratio...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Do we need a formula working out, where the people who don't vote for one reason or another is taken into account?

I know people don't vote for many reasons; apathy, don't understand, can't get to the polling station, just forget etc etc but the result does affect them as well.

I'm sure some mathematical genius could come up with something percentage wise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ponder this then......The vote to join in the first place was certainly not 60/40..... so on that basis should we never have joined the common market initially?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do we need a formula working out, where the people who don't vote for one reason or another is taken into account?

I know people don't vote for many reasons; apathy, don't understand, can't get to the polling station, just forget etc etc but the result does affect them as well.

I'm sure some mathematical genius could come up with something percentage wise."

So you would have some “expert” guess which way none voters would vote if they did vote? The last several polls and expert opinions haven’t even got it right for those who did vote!

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

Agreed, but the rules were agreed prior to the referendum. If people were uneasy, then they should have made their views heard before the event."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I think a referendum should just be advisory only full stop. A way to judge public opinion then our elected officials whom should be better informed about the implications at about whatever the referendum was about should then make the decision as they do anyway.

The EU leave or stay referendum was just too complicated to be left to a simple YES / NO vote by people who on the whole probably knew far too little about to really make an informed choice.

But they went ahead and chose to make it policy anyway so only time will tell how we come out of this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do we need a formula working out, where the people who don't vote for one reason or another is taken into account?

I know people don't vote for many reasons; apathy, don't understand, can't get to the polling station, just forget etc etc but the result does affect them as well.

I'm sure some mathematical genius could come up with something percentage wise."

No if they can't be arsed to vote then they have given up their say in the matter.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Ponder this then......The vote to join in the first place was certainly not 60/40..... so on that basis should we never have joined the common market initially?"

It was 67:33 to remain in the EC in 1975.

I don't think that there was a referendum about joining. Perhaps there should have been?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

Agreed, but the rules were agreed prior to the referendum. If people were uneasy, then they should have made their views heard before the event."

Many did but were placated by the fact that the referendum was meant to be only advisory.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Should it be 60:40 in parliament then? In EU parliament votes? In union ballots for industrial action?"

In many countries for constitutional changes that is what is required and even in the UK, under the fixed term parliament act, a super majority is required to call a general election.

Personally I'm not in favour of referendum at all. I believe they are the tool of demagogues and dictators and lead to ill thought out policies based on uninformed opinion. I've always thought this and have said so on here many times over the last 5 years or so.

That being said, if we are going to have referendum then the result should be read correctly and a result of roughly 30% for, 30% against and 30% not voting should not be read as a clear mandate or true reflection of the 'will of the people' for anything; or at least not if you want any sort of united country.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Ponder this then......The vote to join in the first place was certainly not 60/40..... so on that basis should we never have joined the common market initially?"

We never had a referendum to join in 1973. We did have a referendum in 1975 as to whether we should leave or remain. Remain won overwhelmingly by 67%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A 1% difference is a difference.... What do we do keep having votes till the opposition get their way?... Get the fuck out of the E.U...if we are a country we should abide by and respect our country's laws rules blah blah blah not being held to ransome and dictated by unelected.... I'm a socialist red card holder so believe in once our own are OK then spread the love..... Make love not landfill lol.... Wow rant over... Hope it makes sense lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

60/40 meh, let's just make every decision 100/0, why should that one person have rules imposed on them that they hate or dislike just coz it suits the majority

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This study, albeit on second referendums on EU treaties, makes interesting reading...

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/10/19/asking-the-public-twice-why-do-voters-change-their-minds-in-second-referendums-on-eu-treaties/

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

I think the 2nd vote on our membership of the EU has already taken place. It was called the general election 2017. The UK public overwhelmingly rejected the EU by voting for parties with Brexit manifestos, and a clear commitment to leave the EU was in the Conservative, Labour and Ukip manifestos. Those 3 parties got a combined 85% of the overall vote.

The Lib dems who are a remain party could only get around 8% of the vote in the general election so was a clear rejection of remaining in the EU.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Gove says it's all reversible and that we might stay in, so when prominent campaigners start trying to walk back from Brexit you really know it's a shit idea.

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

The Lib dems who are a remain party could only get around 8% of the vote in the general election so was a clear rejection of remaining in the EU. "

Still hitting that tired drum?

Considering May immediately abandoned major points in her manifesto that should make clear even to you that manifestos arent worth a lot. I mean you keep going on about Labour dropping their education pledge.

The General Election was not a single issue election. Only 1 in 3 voters said that Brexit was the most important issue to their vote and Remainers went overwhelmingly to Labour.

Terrible when facts get in the way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remainders went overwhelmingly to labour.....whose manifesto included plans to leave EU, leave single market and leave customs union.

The latter two they seem to be back peddling on, and then not, and then they are agai and then not again....depending on who is being interviewed by whom, and what the latest headlines are saying.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

New years resolution..

this time next year the issue of the incompatibility of the SM/CU and the Eire/Northern Ireland border will still be a fudge..

and any polls on how would you vote now be following the trend for a majority to remain..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

The Lib dems who are a remain party could only get around 8% of the vote in the general election so was a clear rejection of remaining in the EU.

Still hitting that tired drum?

The General Election was not a single issue election. Only 1 in 3 voters said that Brexit was the most important issue to their vote and Remainers went overwhelmingly to Labour.

Terrible when facts get in the way."
.

1 in 3 voters put brexit at the top of their most important issues yet 9 out of 10 threads are on brexit the other 1 being about trump.

Makes you wonder if there's anybody normal on here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on the news and it was interesting and I agree, a big decision like this needs a bigger threshold than 1%, more like 60/40, what is your view?

The Lib dems who are a remain party could only get around 8% of the vote in the general election so was a clear rejection of remaining in the EU.

Still hitting that tired drum?

The General Election was not a single issue election. Only 1 in 3 voters said that Brexit was the most important issue to their vote and Remainers went overwhelmingly to Labour.

Terrible when facts get in the way..

1 in 3 voters put brexit at the top of their most important issues yet 9 out of 10 threads are on brexit the other 1 being about trump.

Makes you wonder if there's anybody normal on here

I just counted the first 10 threads...and its 3 out of 10....i dont suppose your a KIPPER are you ?

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

people on the wrong side of ANY DECISION or Referendum will Always Always call foul.

Some just can't accept their side didn't come through.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It was a legally informative referendum, rather than binding. Most of us were ignorant of what it meant and what leaving Europe fully meant, or what the plan and implications were.

It's appropriate that the sovereign state should get informed opinion upon the final offer, so that politicians can vote to accept or reject the deal based upon the additional opinion of their constituents.

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