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"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? " Over dependence on service industries in the economy. It's notoriously difficult to make service industries more productive, especially when profit relates to non labour related events. Imagine you're a bank. Huge portions of your profit come from market fluctuations, and how you judge them, not how efficient your staff are, so productivity is not relevant. If you're a gambler (and our economy is dominated by service sector businesses who gamble on financial transactions) you measure how well your bets go, not how efficiently you place your bets.... If you're a utility company how productive your staff are seems less important, these days, than how well you rank on SlapTheMeerkat.com, or how well you market the same electricity, the same gas, the same fucking phone signal that every other fucker is trying to sell with their cuddly toys, talking dogs and yodelling fucking opera singers. We can't do productivity because we've become a country of gamblers, hucksters and flim flam merchants rather than innovators, engineers and builders. | |||
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"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? Over dependence on service industries in the economy. It's notoriously difficult to make service industries more productive, especially when profit relates to non labour related events. Imagine you're a bank. Huge portions of your profit come from market fluctuations, and how you judge them, not how efficient your staff are, so productivity is not relevant. If you're a gambler (and our economy is dominated by service sector businesses who gamble on financial transactions) you measure how well your bets go, not how efficiently you place your bets.... If you're a utility company how productive your staff are seems less important, these days, than how well you rank on SlapTheMeerkat.com, or how well you market the same electricity, the same gas, the same fucking phone signal that every other fucker is trying to sell with their cuddly toys, talking dogs and yodelling fucking opera singers. We can't do productivity because we've become a country of gamblers, hucksters and flim flam merchants rather than innovators, engineers and builders."  | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? " As far as I know it stalled in 2008 and has stayed static since. Our productivity is about 30% behind Germany, who have been traditional strong in the points I mentioned. It is an ongoing problem that needs serious attention. | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? " All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010  | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? " . If you paid attention, you'd have seen the report written 2 years ago by the BIS that basically said cronie capitalism is causing falling productivity by making cheap debt the easiest alternative for global corporations | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation." Not a lot out there for them tbh...the era your talking about...it was the only route available...which route do you prefer... | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010 "Why is productivity low? | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation." Not a bad wage for a School leaver i dont think £22 in the year 1970 is equivalent to £320.62 in 2017, a difference of £298.62 over 47 years. | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation." | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010
Why is productivity low?"Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010
Why is productivity low?
Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy "I think you need to learn what productivity is first. Then rejoin the thread. | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010
Why is productivity low?
Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy
I think you need to learn what productivity is first. Then rejoin the thread."noun the state or quality of being productive. "the long-term productivity of land" the effectiveness of productive effort, especially in industry, as measured in terms of the rate of output per unit of input. "workers have boosted productivity by 30 per cent" synonyms: efficiency, production, productiveness, work rate, output, yield, capacity, productive capacity "workers have boosted productivity by 30 per cent" | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010
Why is productivity low?
Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy
I think you need to learn what productivity is first. Then rejoin the thread.
noun
the state or quality of being productive.
"the long-term productivity of land"
the effectiveness of productive effort, especially in industry, as measured in terms of the rate of output per unit of input.
"workers have boosted productivity by 30 per cent"
synonyms: efficiency, production, productiveness, work rate, output, yield, capacity, productive capacity
"workers have boosted productivity by 30 per cent"
"productivity refers to manufacturing and service industries. It doesn't have to involve producing things. So, how do you think it can be raised, and how would those measures raise productivity? | |||
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"So if this is all years long problems, why is it hitting now, rather than last year or 5 year or 10 years ago? All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010
Why is productivity low?
Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy
I think you need to learn what productivity is first. Then rejoin the thread.
noun
the state or quality of being productive.
"the long-term productivity of land"
the effectiveness of productive effort, especially in industry, as measured in terms of the rate of output per unit of input.
"workers have boosted productivity by 30 per cent"
synonyms: efficiency, production, productiveness, work rate, output, yield, capacity, productive capacity
"workers have boosted productivity by 30 per cent"
productivity refers to manufacturing and service industries. It doesn't have to involve producing things.
So, how do you think it can be raised, and how would those measures raise productivity?"I just gave you the noun for it....is it that hard to understand  | |||
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" productivity refers to manufacturing and service industries. It doesn't have to involve producing things. So, how do you think it can be raised, and how would those measures raise productivity? I just gave you the noun for it....is it that hard to understand "Yes, we all know how to use the word in a sentence, thanks. You said productivity is low because we don't produce much anymore. That isn't how productivity is measured in the statistics that are being discussed. So, how would you suggest raising productivity? It's important to all our futures. | |||
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" productivity refers to manufacturing and service industries. It doesn't have to involve producing things. So, how do you think it can be raised, and how would those measures raise productivity? I just gave you the noun for it....is it that hard to understand
Yes, we all know how to use the word in a sentence, thanks.
You said productivity is low because we don't produce much anymore. That isn't how productivity is measured in the statistics that are being discussed.
So, how would you suggest raising productivity? It's important to all our futures."What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ? | |||
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" What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ? "the thread is 'Productivity' and the question is: "So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? " . The idea is you use your knowledge/experience to say why and potentially suggest a way to change it for the better. | |||
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" What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ?
the thread is 'Productivity' and the question is:
"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? "
.
The idea is you use your knowledge/experience to say why and potentially suggest a way to change it for the better."I did answer that...like a previous poster has told you and indeed as i have....read up ^^^^^ | |||
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" What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ?
the thread is 'Productivity' and the question is:
"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? "
.
The idea is you use your knowledge/experience to say why and potentially suggest a way to change it for the better.
I did answer that...like a previous poster has told you and indeed as i have....read up ^^^^^"The only two are: "All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010" "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy " So, is it one of those? It would be so simple to just say what you mean. | |||
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" What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ?
the thread is 'Productivity' and the question is:
"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? "
.
The idea is you use your knowledge/experience to say why and potentially suggest a way to change it for the better.
I did answer that...like a previous poster has told you and indeed as i have....read up ^^^^^
The only two are:
"All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010"
"Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy "
So, is it one of those? It would be so simple to just say what you mean."Well i think you have your answer from me in your quotes i made...simple that wasnt it ? | |||
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" What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ?
the thread is 'Productivity' and the question is:
"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? "
.
The idea is you use your knowledge/experience to say why and potentially suggest a way to change it for the better.
I did answer that...like a previous poster has told you and indeed as i have....read up ^^^^^
The only two are:
"All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010"
"Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy "
So, is it one of those? It would be so simple to just say what you mean.
Well i think you have your answer from me in your quotes i made...simple that wasnt it ? "But it was explained that productivity isn't to do with with producing things. A pure service economy has productivity too. How can it be improved? | |||
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" What is the name of the thread?....what is the definition of productivity ?
the thread is 'Productivity' and the question is:
"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? "
.
The idea is you use your knowledge/experience to say why and potentially suggest a way to change it for the better.
I did answer that...like a previous poster has told you and indeed as i have....read up ^^^^^
The only two are:
"All Labours fault...oh and dont forget to blame the EU as well...along with forgetting that the tories have been in power since 2010"
"Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy "
So, is it one of those? It would be so simple to just say what you mean.
Well i think you have your answer from me in your quotes i made...simple that wasnt it ?
But it was explained that productivity isn't to do with with producing things. A pure service economy has productivity too.
How can it be improved?"And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation. Not a lot out there for them tbh...the era your talking about...it was the only route available...which route do you prefer..." I would prefer a sensible mix of education. We need to make vocations such as Design, Manufacture, Research "sexy". I'd like to know how many graduates are now doing jobs that have no bearing on the courses they did. | |||
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" How can it be improved? And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity "if you don't know, or made a mistake, it's no big deal. | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation. Not a lot out there for them tbh...the era your talking about...it was the only route available...which route do you prefer... I would prefer a sensible mix of education. We need to make vocations such as Design, Manufacture, Research "sexy". I'd like to know how many graduates are now doing jobs that have no bearing on the courses they did." Indeed and that points to what ? | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation. Not a bad wage for a School leaver i dont think £22 in the year 1970 is equivalent to £320.62 in 2017, a difference of £298.62 over 47 years." Was more the late 70s. I had to give my mother £10 a week board and lodgings out of that but beer was 36p a pint! Nostalgia indeed  | |||
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" How can it be improved? And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity
if you don't know, or made a mistake, it's no big deal."nah i think YOU dont understand | |||
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"In the 1970s, when I was a Technical Apprentice, I worked four days a week on the tools, one full day (9-9) at college and two additional night schools (6-9)...a full week for a 16yo! This was for the princely sum of £22 per week. My son has just started university and does 13 hours per week in lectures! The rest of his time is taken up with whatever takes his fancy, and all paid for with a student loan. You can see why universities are so popular with this generation. Not a bad wage for a School leaver i dont think £22 in the year 1970 is equivalent to £320.62 in 2017, a difference of £298.62 over 47 years. Was more the late 70s. I had to give my mother £10 a week board and lodgings out of that but beer was 36p a pint! Nostalgia indeed "Still not bad for a school leaver though In other words, £22 in the year 1979 is equivalent to £104.87 in 2017, a difference of £82.87 over 38 years. | |||
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" How can it be improved? And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity
if you don't know, or made a mistake, it's no big deal.
nah i think YOU dont understand "ok, I worked in manufacturing, involving productivity improvement for about 10 years. But, I'll take your post waffling about brexit and people blaming Labour as more useful. Thanks for the input. | |||
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" How can it be improved? And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity
if you don't know, or made a mistake, it's no big deal.
nah i think YOU dont understand
ok, I worked in manufacturing, involving productivity improvement for about 10 years. But, I'll take your post waffling about brexit and people blaming Labour as more useful. Thanks for the input."Choosing the bits you want again | |||
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" How can it be improved? And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity
if you don't know, or made a mistake, it's no big deal.
nah i think YOU dont understand
ok, I worked in manufacturing, involving productivity improvement for about 10 years. But, I'll take your post waffling about brexit and people blaming Labour as more useful. Thanks for the input.
Choosing the bits you want again "well, I asked you twice to just say what you mean, and your only reply is is look up ^^^^. If you have something useful to tell us, I really would like to know it. As I said it's useful, not supposed to be some sort of slagging match. | |||
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" How can it be improved? And i showed you were it was...with the noun for productivity
if you don't know, or made a mistake, it's no big deal.
nah i think YOU dont understand
ok, I worked in manufacturing, involving productivity improvement for about 10 years. But, I'll take your post waffling about brexit and people blaming Labour as more useful. Thanks for the input.
Choosing the bits you want again
well, I asked you twice to just say what you mean, and your only reply is is look up ^^^^. If you have something useful to tell us, I really would like to know it. As I said it's useful, not supposed to be some sort of slagging match."Im not the only one to have said that....you seem easily confused | |||
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"Mine was: Lack of investment in high quality education and training. Lack of investment in r&d. Years long obsession with get-rich-quick through property / stock market mentality. ." "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy " | |||
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"Mine was: Lack of investment in high quality education and training. Lack of investment in r&d. Years long obsession with get-rich-quick through property / stock market mentality. . "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy "" Productivity isn't just about producing stuff 
it relates just the same to the service sector. It has been flat since 2010. Any other ideas? | |||
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"Mine was: Lack of investment in high quality education and training. Lack of investment in r&d. Years long obsession with get-rich-quick through property / stock market mentality. . "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy " Productivity isn't just about producing stuff
it relates just the same to the service sector. It has been flat since 2010. Any other ideas?"Are you confusing manufacturing and producing? | |||
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"Mine was: Lack of investment in high quality education and training. Lack of investment in r&d. Years long obsession with get-rich-quick through property / stock market mentality. . "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy " Productivity isn't just about producing stuff
it relates just the same to the service sector. It has been flat since 2010. Any other ideas?
Are you confusing manufacturing and producing? "I think so...as theres only so many coffee's you can serve a day | |||
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"20 years of minimal investment and 7 years of ideological austerity cutting infrastructure maintenance to the bare mininum has come home to roost... Countries have to build their way out of debt, cutting spending only increases the debt. Between 1945 and 1990 we reduced our national debt from 250% of GDP to 40% of GDP where it stayed until 2010 when funnily enough the Tories took charge and introduced austerity saying they would balance the budget in 5 years, 7 years on they have increased the national debt to 80% of GDP and are now telling us that it will take another 10 years of cuts to balance the budget. Any Tory voters care to explain this? "
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism" I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? | |||
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"Mine was: Lack of investment in high quality education and training. Lack of investment in r&d. Years long obsession with get-rich-quick through property / stock market mentality. . "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy " Productivity isn't just about producing stuff
it relates just the same to the service sector. It has been flat since 2010. Any other ideas?
Are you confusing manufacturing and producing? "Don't think so, in the context of the sentence. 'we don't produce much nowadays', reads as the manufacture of goods to me. He may well have been talking about producing service related items, but that isn't how it was phrased. He might explain more clearly and explain why and how it can be improved. I have asked. | |||
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" Are you confusing manufacturing and producing? I think so...as theres only so many coffee's you can serve a day "Well, productivity does relate to how many coffees you can serve in a day doesn't it. And raises quite a few other questions. Are uk Starbucks as productive as others i.e in Germany? Would the same person be producing more Value Add if they were producing cars or wind turbines, than if they were making coffee? | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong " What's wrong with that ? Can it be sourced in the UK for the same price ? As far as the workers go will a local do the job for the same price ? | |||
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"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? Over dependence on service industries in the economy. It's notoriously difficult to make service industries more productive, especially when profit relates to non labour related events. Imagine you're a bank. Huge portions of your profit come from market fluctuations, and how you judge them, not how efficient your staff are, so productivity is not relevant. If you're a gambler (and our economy is dominated by service sector businesses who gamble on financial transactions) you measure how well your bets go, not how efficiently you place your bets.... If you're a utility company how productive your staff are seems less important, these days, than how well you rank on SlapTheMeerkat.com, or how well you market the same electricity, the same gas, the same fucking phone signal that every other fucker is trying to sell with their cuddly toys, talking dogs and yodelling fucking opera singers. We can't do productivity because we've become a country of gamblers, hucksters and flim flam merchants rather than innovators, engineers and builders." | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong What's wrong with that ? Can it be sourced in the UK for the same price ? As far as the workers go will a local do the job for the same price ? " It's a bit off-topic, as maybe not productivity. But the examples he gave, legally the steel would have to be sourced from the cheapest location, so long as it was to specification. But lets say there was £10mill of steel needed for that ship, and £50k cheaper overseas than in the uk. What is the wider benefit of it being uk sourced than far-eastern? Especially when the Government is the purchaser. Should the Governemnt just buy cheapest and ignore the other aspects? | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong What's wrong with that ? Can it be sourced in the UK for the same price ? As far as the workers go will a local do the job for the same price ? " I don't know the answers to those questions but, what's wrong with supporting home industries? Especially if the cost difference is negligible | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong What's wrong with that ? Can it be sourced in the UK for the same price ? As far as the workers go will a local do the job for the same price ? I don't know the answers to those questions but, what's wrong with supporting home industries? Especially if the cost difference is negligible " It's not economic , But I see what you mean it's morally right , But look the other side who is going to be the ones that complains about overspending by public services , the foreign workers won't , nor will the Norwegian company sending the steel , | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong " A big part of free trade agreements are to allow companies from both parties to bid for government tenders. When we leave the EU, instead of the Netherlands and Germany bidding, it will be the likes of India and China instead. | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong A big part of free trade agreements are to allow companies from both parties to bid for government tenders. When we leave the EU, instead of the Netherlands and Germany bidding, it will be the likes of India and China instead. " How will uk compete then ? | |||
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" A big part of free trade agreements are to allow companies from both parties to bid for government tenders. When we leave the EU, instead of the Netherlands and Germany bidding, it will be the likes of India and China instead. " If we do free trade agreements with those countries. Also, that is an issue inside the eu already, with Chinese steel dumping. | |||
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" A big part of free trade agreements are to allow companies from both parties to bid for government tenders. When we leave the EU, instead of the Netherlands and Germany bidding, it will be the likes of India and China instead. If we do free trade agreements with those countries. Also, that is an issue inside the eu already, with Chinese steel dumping." The problem is not China , it's our ability to compete with them | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? " . Except!. If you remove inflation Wages have flatlined for thirty years. Unions haven't run the country for 40 years. Nobody with any sense measures productivity in cash terms, they just use hours worked, Honda will tell exactly how many man hours is in the production of any particular unit. Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour  | |||
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"Mine was: Lack of investment in high quality education and training. Lack of investment in r&d. Years long obsession with get-rich-quick through property / stock market mentality. . "Might be cos we dont produce much now a days...and thats a huge reason why brexit will be bad for the UK economy " Productivity isn't just about producing stuff
it relates just the same to the service sector. It has been flat since 2010. Any other ideas?
Are you confusing manufacturing and producing?
Don't think so, in the context of the sentence. 'we don't produce much nowadays', reads as the manufacture of goods to me.
He may well have been talking about producing service related items, but that isn't how it was phrased. He might explain more clearly and explain why and how it can be improved. I have asked."See choosing bits that suits your agenda on things yet again...if i knew the answer to how things could be improved and the same goes with you i wouldn't be sat here now debating it....my opinion if it its worth anything we manufacture/produce very very little of our stuff now...we have to buy or import it for the reason...i mean ffs Thatcher shut down and sold most of it to satisfy her ideological ideas and hatred of the unions....take a look back in time if you want the answer | |||
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"So productivity has fallen to its lowest level since the early 1800s, what do you think is the cause for this? " Hi . We can probably just ignore the comparison because it is not like for like . The ONS are struggling to come to terms with digital technologies . This means that highly successfull service industries which don't produce tangible assets along with the development of Artificial Intelligence, biotechnology and pioneering software in our great research Universities are not captured by the traditional models used to produce these financial predictions . A measure of our success in some of these industries is that the Japanese Soft Bank paid £24 billion for Cambridge based ARM the global leader in creating the silicon chips that will autonomous cars and wi fi connected household gadgets . Scarcely a day passes in the City of London without overseas investors seeking to buy into Britain's pioneering technology . The trouble is that it's very difficult for traditional measures of productivity to assess these cutting edge industries because what they create is not as tangible as the output of a car production line or an oil well. The Nissan car plant in Sunderland regularly comes out as the most efficient in Europe . It is impossible to believe that in a nation where new technology is making such dramatic advances that the economy will stagnate in the coming years . | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? . Except!. If you remove inflation Wages have flatlined for thirty years. Unions haven't run the country for 40 years. Nobody with any sense measures productivity in cash terms, they just use hours worked, Honda will tell exactly how many man hours is in the production of any particular unit. Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour "Ya probably right , Leave cost out of the equation Look at hours worked , if you go into a factory in the UK you have people working away with the attitude of " I'll come in on time, I'll go home on time , and I'll take my time all day " And if any one complains about me not being to rushed we will let the management sort it out wit the unions , I'll go for a smoke break , Now look at Asia ,management see ya slacking off they walk you to the door kick you out and bring in the lad standing there looking for a job , Which one do you think will get more done in the same amount of man hours , | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? . Except!. If you remove inflation Wages have flatlined for thirty years. Unions haven't run the country for 40 years. Nobody with any sense measures productivity in cash terms, they just use hours worked, Honda will tell exactly how many man hours is in the production of any particular unit. Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour
Ya probably right ,
Leave cost out of the equation
Look at hours worked , if you go into a factory in the UK you have people working away with the attitude of " I'll come in on time, I'll go home on time , and I'll take my time all day "
And if any one complains about me not being to rushed we will let the management sort it out wit the unions , I'll go for a smoke break ,
Now look at Asia ,management see ya slacking off they walk you to the door kick you out and bring in the lad standing there looking for a job ,
Which one do you think will get more done in the same amount of man hours ,
". That's pretty much why Japanese, south Koreans and the Chinese have started to dominate!... | |||
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" Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour "
Maybe time to use that cheap debt to invest in training, education and equipment, so that we can use people more efficiently.
A highly automated factory can run very quickly producing large quantities of quality product. It needs higher skilled, higher paid people in it, but the end result is much higher productivity / person. | |||
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"Something else that would be shown the door is cronie capitalism in China, the Japanese also have a cultural sense of honour about doing the "right" things for the Japanese and Japan.... The bloody nationalists "Perhaps we can skip over the bit where you heap praise on the versions of countries that exist only in your mind. Nobody needs to read another obnoxious mishmash of racist stereotypes being paraded about as something to emulate or envy. | |||
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" Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour
Maybe time to use that cheap debt to invest in training, education and equipment, so that we can use people more efficiently.
A highly automated factory can run very quickly producing large quantities of quality product. It needs higher skilled, higher paid people in it, but the end result is much higher productivity / person."or the same productivity with quarter of the employees , | |||
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 now your thinking | |||
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" Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour
Maybe time to use that cheap debt to invest in training, education and equipment, so that we can use people more efficiently.
A highly automated factory can run very quickly producing large quantities of quality product. It needs higher skilled, higher paid people in it, but the end result is much higher productivity / person. or the same productivity with quarter of the employees , "Yes, productivity measured in £/person output. | |||
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"Quarter of the employees pay them twice as much and produce same amount now your thinking" but needs skilled management, banks who understand and skilled workforce. | |||
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"Quarter of the employees pay them twice as much and produce same amount now your thinking
but needs skilled management, banks who understand and skilled workforce."What do we tell the three quarters of the workers that's not needed | |||
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" Why would anybody invest in productivity gains when they have access to Practically free debt and unlimited cheap labour?? Whereas if debt was expensive and labour expensive the first thing you'd look at is how to do things using less labour
Maybe time to use that cheap debt to invest in training, education and equipment, so that we can use people more efficiently.
A highly automated factory can run very quickly producing large quantities of quality product. It needs higher skilled, higher paid people in it, but the end result is much higher productivity / person."I guess that the Nissan plant in Sunderland is a good example of this. The emphasis will now be on automation of manual and repetitive tasks. We will however need a highly skilled workforce to carry out the supervision. Companies such as Blue Prism are leading the way forward in automation. | |||
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"Quarter of the employees pay them twice as much and produce same amount now your thinking
but needs skilled management, banks who understand and skilled workforce.
What do we tell the three quarters of the workers that's not needed "That's been the case through history from the mills to agriculture. If it happens overnight it can cause turmoil, but it's normally evolutionary. Plus, if we don't do it, others already are. | |||
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"Increasing productivity is the only way to be competitive on a world market , Use of automation is perfect one man well trained and we'll paid replacing 4 paid quarter of the wages each , Problem is what happens to the other 3 who are now unemployed , Tax the worker take 75% of his wages in tax so state can support 3 unemployed ? " not sure I quite follow. Automation is increasing productivity. And the answer is create three more factories. (I know. Too simplistic.) | |||
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"Quarter of the employees pay them twice as much and produce same amount now your thinking
but needs skilled management, banks who understand and skilled workforce.
What do we tell the three quarters of the workers that's not needed "Time for UBI, boooiiissss | |||
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"Quarter of the employees pay them twice as much and produce same amount now your thinking
but needs skilled management, banks who understand and skilled workforce.
What do we tell the three quarters of the workers that's not needed
That's been the case through history from the mills to agriculture. If it happens overnight it can cause turmoil, but it's normally evolutionary.
Plus, if we don't do it, others already are."This kind of evolution is happening faster and faster , if you look at agriculture horses 90 years ago basic enough tractors up 15 years ago 10 years electronic assistance 5 years ago auto starring ,now driverless , methane powered , hydrogen powered and electric , it's faster technology is evolving , | |||
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"Quarter of the employees pay them twice as much and produce same amount now your thinking
but needs skilled management, banks who understand and skilled workforce.
What do we tell the three quarters of the workers that's not needed
That's been the case through history from the mills to agriculture. If it happens overnight it can cause turmoil, but it's normally evolutionary.
Plus, if we don't do it, others already are.
This kind of evolution is happening faster and faster , if you look at agriculture horses 90 years ago basic enough tractors up 15 years ago 10 years electronic assistance 5 years ago auto starring ,now driverless , methane powered , hydrogen powered and electric , it's faster technology is evolving , "True, but it is happening. So I'd suggest we get our arses in gear as fast as possible and get people coming through with the skills to harness it and invest in training and upskilling people already in the workforce. | |||
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"maybe it's the dither-faff economy, careless citizen deaths, the sale of british minors to wealthier nations, parliamentary hubris & clumsiness, the sale of wales to a chinese plastics factory, the turning of scotland into a car park and the privatisation of the government that's to blame" can you show your workings ? | |||
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"maybe it's the dither-faff economy, careless citizen deaths, the sale of british minors to wealthier nations, parliamentary hubris & clumsiness, the sale of wales to a chinese plastics factory, the turning of scotland into a car park and the privatisation of the government that's to blamecan you show your workings ? " 42 | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? " did you write this in 1979 just before the GE..? and then put it in a box under the stairs for the last 38 and a half years on the off chance it may be relevant..? | |||
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"maybe it's the dither-faff economy, careless citizen deaths, the sale of british minors to wealthier nations, parliamentary hubris & clumsiness, the sale of wales to a chinese plastics factory, the turning of scotland into a car park and the privatisation of the government that's to blamecan you show your workings ? 42" im convinced. | |||
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"maybe it's the dither-faff economy, careless citizen deaths, the sale of british minors to wealthier nations, parliamentary hubris & clumsiness, the sale of wales to a chinese plastics factory, the turning of scotland into a car park and the privatisation of the government that's to blame can you show your workings ? 42 im convinced. " | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? did you write this in 1979 just before the GE..? and then put it in a box under the stairs for the last 38 and a half years on the off chance it may be relevant..?" You think it's incorrect ?? | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? did you write this in 1979 just before the GE..? and then put it in a box under the stairs for the last 38 and a half years on the off chance it may be relevant..? You think it's incorrect ?? " keith joseph rang .... he wants his his 1978 party conference speech back | |||
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"I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? " So you think it is all the fault of unions, lets examine this objectively. From 1945 to 1979 the power of the unions combined was equal to that of the government and the power of any single union was equal or greater than any single company or industry. During this time the national debt was reduced from 250% of GDP to around 50% of GDP. While the unions forced the government to keep open vital national industries and businesses were forced to pay their workers fairly and share profits. Between 1979 and 1990 the government systematically stripped power from the unions and the national debt was further reduced to 40% of GDP. In the same period the government sold off and closed down industries vital to the national interest. By 1990 the power of the unions had been broken and there was no way for organised labour to resist the excesses of industry bosses and we begin to see the systematic transfer of production out of the UK and the national debt stabilised but wealth started to be transferred from the workforce to the bosses and the shareholders who started to transfer that wealth out of the UK too. Then the bankers defrauded the world and we got another lurch to the right and effectively unregulated crony capitalism for the last 7 years and the national debt has risen from 40% to 80% of GDP wile average wages are £2400 lower than they were 10 years ago but the wealth of the top 1% has doubled. And still there are working class Tories who believe all our woes are the fault of the unions! Wake up and taste the shit you have been fed and are now regurgitating! | |||
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"Lol I wasn't even born then but he sounds like an intelligent man , Maybe someone should have listened to him " the reason why we're up this shit creek now is because too many people did  | |||
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"Something else that would be shown the door is cronie capitalism in China, the Japanese also have a cultural sense of honour about doing the "right" things for the Japanese and Japan.... The bloody nationalists "All countries should what is best for them,it is common sense | |||
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"I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? So you think it is all the fault of unions, lets examine this objectively. From 1945 to 1979 the power of the unions combined was equal to that of the government and the power of any single union was equal or greater than any single company or industry. During this time the national debt was reduced from 250% of GDP to around 50% of GDP. While the unions forced the government to keep open vital national industries and businesses were forced to pay their workers fairly and share profits. Between 1979 and 1990 the government systematically stripped power from the unions and the national debt was further reduced to 40% of GDP. In the same period the government sold off and closed down industries vital to the national interest. By 1990 the power of the unions had been broken and there was no way for organised labour to resist the excesses of industry bosses and we begin to see the systematic transfer of production out of the UK and the national debt stabilised but wealth started to be transferred from the workforce to the bosses and the shareholders who started to transfer that wealth out of the UK too. Then the bankers defrauded the world and we got another lurch to the right and effectively unregulated crony capitalism for the last 7 years and the national debt has risen from 40% to 80% of GDP wile average wages are £2400 lower than they were 10 years ago but the wealth of the top 1% has doubled. And still there are working class Tories who believe all our woes are the fault of the unions! Wake up and taste the shit you have been fed and are now regurgitating!" a little bit disingenuous to post the 40% to 80% straight after the 7 years. A quick google suggests it was at c 70% in 2010. With the rapid rise coming in 2008 to 2010. Ps i don’t necessarily disagree with the sentiment and believe there are time lags. | |||
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"Cheap labour and cronie capitalism I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? did you write this in 1979 just before the GE..? and then put it in a box under the stairs for the last 38 and a half years on the off chance it may be relevant..? You think it's incorrect ?? " No sorry your spot on with the Unions and their rampant power, the inflation busting pay rises of the past 7 years being testament to their effectiveness..
pardon my sarcasm but the unions in either sectors have hardly been calling any shots in the last decade or so under both of the main parties..
there are issue's without doubt with outsourcing to keep wages low which only leads to a race to the bottom..
falling productivity is not only down to workers wanting to work to live, its to do with several other things as people have stated in this thread.. | |||
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"Apols if covered earlier on (I’ve skipped most the thread) but how are we defining productivity ?" I was thinking the same - surely it's not a viable comparison? Other than misery, starvation, child labour, disease, war and prostitution, its difficult to think of anything else which was produced more efficiently in the year 1800 than it is today? | |||
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"I don't think so , I think it's the exact opposite , Problem is unions running the country , worker's taking time off working shorter hours and expecting to get wage increases year on year , can't be done to pay someone more for doing less , That's productivity falling , The western world has priced its self out of manufacturing gobs over the years , those jobs are now in China , so western society went towards banking and services better paying jobs , grand for now But cost of manufacturing is increasing in China now , Next step the manufacturing jobs move to Africa our service jobs move to China , what to fuck then ??? So you think it is all the fault of unions, lets examine this objectively. From 1945 to 1979 the power of the unions combined was equal to that of the government and the power of any single union was equal or greater than any single company or industry. During this time the national debt was reduced from 250% of GDP to around 50% of GDP. While the unions forced the government to keep open vital national industries and businesses were forced to pay their workers fairly and share profits. Between 1979 and 1990 the government systematically stripped power from the unions and the national debt was further reduced to 40% of GDP. In the same period the government sold off and closed down industries vital to the national interest. By 1990 the power of the unions had been broken and there was no way for organised labour to resist the excesses of industry bosses and we begin to see the systematic transfer of production out of the UK and the national debt stabilised but wealth started to be transferred from the workforce to the bosses and the shareholders who started to transfer that wealth out of the UK too. Then the bankers defrauded the world and we got another lurch to the right and effectively unregulated crony capitalism for the last 7 years and the national debt has risen from 40% to 80% of GDP wile average wages are £2400 lower than they were 10 years ago but the wealth of the top 1% has doubled. And still there are working class Tories who believe all our woes are the fault of the unions! Wake up and taste the shit you have been fed and are now regurgitating!" Ok if you want to reduce national debt it's simple spend less Look at what money is spent on National pensions , push up retirement age 2 years people are living longer , National health care , it's a total mess totally inefficient , Think of privatisation , bring efficiency and productivity , Defence stay out of foreign wars and ya don't need spending millions on aircraft carriers , How much do you want to save ??? | |||
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"Something else that would be shown the door is cronie capitalism in China, the Japanese also have a cultural sense of honour about doing the "right" things for the Japanese and Japan.... The bloody nationalists All countries should what is best for them,it is common sense"should what? do? and if so just whom is 'them'..? the establishment, the Government and their own personal vested being lobbied interests? the media? a society should be similar in looking after its elderly, vulnerable and infirm as a good family might.. not the strong head of the family off down the pub lashing away the weeks wage and leaving the kids hungry and not clothed.. | |||
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"Ok if you want to reduce national debt it's simple spend less Look at what money is spent on National pensions , push up retirement age 2 years people are living longer , National health care , it's a total mess totally inefficient , Think of privatisation , bring efficiency and productivity , Defence stay out of foreign wars and ya don't need spending millions on aircraft carriers , How much do you want to save ??? " Always the same answer. Cut. Now lets work out what to cut? Oh it has not worked so lets cut more... Funny thing is every time when the cuts get so bad that the poor are starving and revolution is a real possibility and fear of being strung up forces the establishment (rich) to reverse course and invest we find that economies grow the population gets wealthier and healthier and debt reduces until a point arrives where the establishments (the rich) greed takes over and they start cutting again. And always there is a rump of the working class who tug their forelock and say 'eye sir' as the get screwed over. | |||
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"Ok if you want to reduce national debt it's simple spend less Look at what money is spent on National pensions , push up retirement age 2 years people are living longer , National health care , it's a total mess totally inefficient , Think of privatisation , bring efficiency and productivity , Defence stay out of foreign wars and ya don't need spending millions on aircraft carriers , How much do you want to save ??? Always the same answer. Cut. Now lets work out what to cut? Oh it has not worked so lets cut more... Funny thing is every time when the cuts get so bad that the poor are starving and revolution is a real possibility and fear of being strung up forces the establishment (rich) to reverse course and invest we find that economies grow the population gets wealthier and healthier and debt reduces until a point arrives where the establishments (the rich) greed takes over and they start cutting again. And always there is a rump of the working class who tug their forelock and say 'eye sir' as the get screwed over. " By the time brexit is over cuts will have new meaning , and definitely in the next 5 year | |||
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"I would also say contracts given to foreign suppliers over uk based ones (employing britidh workers at any rate) doesn't help. Sunderland council are building a new bridge over the wear river. The steel for it coming from the Netherlands. Thr government too are on the bandwagon with steel from norway or somewhere like that to build the Elizabeth and her sister ship. Correct me if I'm wrong What's wrong with that ? Can it be sourced in the UK for the same price ? As far as the workers go will a local do the job for the same price ? I don't know the answers to those questions but, what's wrong with supporting home industries? Especially if the cost difference is negligible It's not economic , But I see what you mean it's morally right , But look the other side who is going to be the ones that complains about overspending by public services , the foreign workers won't , nor will the Norwegian company sending the steel , " Complaints about overspending would be easier if it were to maintain british employment and jobs rather than foreign aid on daft projects like going to mugabe's corrupt regime. Granted he's gone but you know what i mean | |||
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"You mean the money we spent on promoting democracy which may be in the process of paying dividends? " No i mean the money paid out, ending up paying for mrs mugabe's shopping sprees buying expensive handbags n dresses, cars, booze ups while wrecking the economy. There's no accounting or deals made where we want to see where and what tje money is spent on | |||
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"Apols if covered earlier on (I’ve skipped most the thread) but how are we defining productivity ? I was thinking the same - surely it's not a viable comparison? Other than misery, starvation, child labour, disease, war and prostitution, its difficult to think of anything else which was produced more efficiently in the year 1800 than it is today? " Productivity is vlaue of output vs value of inputs. E.g money and labour cost to produce something vs the value of the end product. Can be applied to goods or services and can be calculated somehow for the nation as a whole. So if you are making Jimmy Choo shoes for £10 labour and £20 other costs and selling them for £200, you have very high productivity. If you are fixing a shoe for £10 labour and £5 cother costs and charging £20 you have lower productivity. That is the economic definition. No judgement on either activity. | |||
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