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Brexit, Bombardier, Airbus and the USA

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London

Bombardier, from the Canadian and Commonwealth nation that has just signed a trade deal with the EU which we are soon to leave, was levied a 300% duty for sales to the US, which is going to give us a great trade deal.

This put well paid, high technology jobs in their plant in Northern Ireland at risk.

Luckily Airbus, European owned and headquartered, is buying a 50% stake in the company but will also set up a plant in the USA so that they can sell planes there.

So who's turned out to be our friends and who not so much?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

They already have a plant in Mobile, Alabama, and the idea is to assemble the C series planes destined for the US there.

Boeing will fight this. Although they don't compete in this sector, their philosophy is to try and crush all competitors.

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London


"They already have a plant in Mobile, Alabama, and the idea is to assemble the C series planes destined for the US there.

Boeing will fight this. Although they don't compete in this sector, their philosophy is to try and crush all competitors. "

Actually, I believe I made a mistake. Airbus doesn't isn't building a new plant in the USA. They are the ones with a plant in Alabama.

You haven't addressed the overall situation though with respect to who is aiding the UK and who isn't, although that said, outcomes for us seem to be peripheral to everyone else involved...

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London

Is this too difficult a problem for Brexiteers to spin then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is this too difficult a problem for Brexiteers to spin then? "

No need to spin anything.

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

Poor Brexiters have slowly had their world view collapse around them over the last 8 months.

Countries are just waiting for the UK to be split off on its own so it will be isolated and in need of a deal.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Poor Brexiters have slowly had their world view collapse around them over the last 8 months.

Countries are just waiting for the UK to be split off on its own so it will be isolated and in need of a deal."

Yeah, they are trying to keep up the charade until we have left, but Trump's administration can't help but let the mask slip. Once we have left, they will really be going for the jugular.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I'm still struggling to see what this story has to do with Brexit?

Fishing at its worst!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"I'm still struggling to see what this story has to do with Brexit?

Fishing at its worst! "

The economic model put forward for Brexit is that we will replace the trade we inevitably lose from the EU, with trade from other countries. I believe that this has been described as a becoming a beacon of free trade. One of the most important proposed FTAs is with the US. With the US imposing 300% tariffs, it shows they are not interested in free trade. That therefore undermines the cornerstone of the Brexit economic model.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I'm afraid that this is just a business deal between an European planemaker and a Canadian planemaker.

The Bombardier C aircraft is a very good plane, and commands a good position in that market. The similar Airbus 319, has suffered from disappointing sales, so it makes sense for both companies to pool resources and move forward together in this market. Both have strengths that the other can draw on

This market is growing and Boeing, not having a product to offer, is going to tie up with Embraer, the Brazilian planemaker, to try and break into this market.

Any deal between Airbus and Bombardier needs to be signed off by both Governments, and the current legal case over tariffs is still ongoing, each side believing that they have a valid case.

Ironically, the major winner of this deal, if it goes ahead, will be the creation of hundreds of jobs at Airbus Alabama.

There was good news for Bombardier in the UK this week, with a £500 million deal with West Midlands trains, for the supply of train carriages. This is the fifth deal that Bombardier in Derby have secured, and will lead to the creation of 300 extra direct jobs, as well as others in the supply chain.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

No, this is a government that we want a free trade deal with, slapping HUGE tariffs on products that compete with domestic products.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"No, this is a government that we want a free trade deal with, slapping HUGE tariffs on products that compete with domestic products. "

I'm not believing that you were that naive, to think that wouldn't start to happen under President Trump!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"No, this is a government that we want a free trade deal with, slapping HUGE tariffs on products that compete with domestic products.

I'm not believing that you were that naive, to think that wouldn't start to happen under President Trump!"

I don't have a problem with Trump's "America First" position on trade, I have said that before. I think Trump has some what of a point on the downsides of free trade.

What I am saying is that Trump's "America First" position doesn't marry up with the Brexiters economic model based on tariff free trade with America.

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London


"I'm afraid that this is just a business deal between an European planemaker and a Canadian planemaker.

The Bombardier C aircraft is a very good plane, and commands a good position in that market. The similar Airbus 319, has suffered from disappointing sales, so it makes sense for both companies to pool resources and move forward together in this market. Both have strengths that the other can draw on

This market is growing and Boeing, not having a product to offer, is going to tie up with Embraer, the Brazilian planemaker, to try and break into this market.

Any deal between Airbus and Bombardier needs to be signed off by both Governments, and the current legal case over tariffs is still ongoing, each side believing that they have a valid case.

Ironically, the major winner of this deal, if it goes ahead, will be the creation of hundreds of jobs at Airbus Alabama.

There was good news for Bombardier in the UK this week, with a £500 million deal with West Midlands trains, for the supply of train carriages. This is the fifth deal that Bombardier in Derby have secured, and will lead to the creation of 300 extra direct jobs, as well as others in the supply chain."

So you don't see an irony in the Brexit position on this?

A transnational European company has secured jobs in the UK, at least in the medium term.

This is at a time when we are choosing to distance ourselves from Europe whilst trying to get "other", "better" trade deals.

Primary amongst these is the USA who were the primary threat in this case to UK jobs and industry.

The USA is also one of several countries objecting to our very first WTO request which has been agreed with the EU to simply maintain our quota of tariff free agricultural produce as a percentage of the existing EU one...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"I'm afraid that this is just a business deal between an European planemaker and a Canadian planemaker.

The Bombardier C aircraft is a very good plane, and commands a good position in that market. The similar Airbus 319, has suffered from disappointing sales, so it makes sense for both companies to pool resources and move forward together in this market. Both have strengths that the other can draw on

This market is growing and Boeing, not having a product to offer, is going to tie up with Embraer, the Brazilian planemaker, to try and break into this market.

Any deal between Airbus and Bombardier needs to be signed off by both Governments, and the current legal case over tariffs is still ongoing, each side believing that they have a valid case.

Ironically, the major winner of this deal, if it goes ahead, will be the creation of hundreds of jobs at Airbus Alabama.

There was good news for Bombardier in the UK this week, with a £500 million deal with West Midlands trains, for the supply of train carriages. This is the fifth deal that Bombardier in Derby have secured, and will lead to the creation of 300 extra direct jobs, as well as others in the supply chain.

So you don't see an irony in the Brexit position on this?

A transnational European company has secured jobs in the UK, at least in the medium term.

This is at a time when we are choosing to distance ourselves from Europe whilst trying to get "other", "better" trade deals.

Primary amongst these is the USA who were the primary threat in this case to UK jobs and industry.

The USA is also one of several countries objecting to our very first WTO request which has been agreed with the EU to simply maintain our quota of tariff free agricultural produce as a percentage of the existing EU one..."

Boeing will fight this deal tooth and nail. And with huge political lobby in Washington, they have lots of powerful clout on their side.

They will maintain that Bombardier flouted trade rules with Delta, and they do have a case. Delta got these planes at 66% discount, and the courts have seen that level of discount as "dumping".

They will argue in court, that despite assembly at Airbus at Mobile, Alabama, that all imported parts should be subject to punitive tariffs. This, of course, involves the wings from Bombardier in Belfast.

Delta wants these planes but not at an extra £9 billion. The corporate lawyers in all camps are about to have a very big payday indeed.

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London


"I'm afraid that this is just a business deal between an European planemaker and a Canadian planemaker.

The Bombardier C aircraft is a very good plane, and commands a good position in that market. The similar Airbus 319, has suffered from disappointing sales, so it makes sense for both companies to pool resources and move forward together in this market. Both have strengths that the other can draw on

This market is growing and Boeing, not having a product to offer, is going to tie up with Embraer, the Brazilian planemaker, to try and break into this market.

Any deal between Airbus and Bombardier needs to be signed off by both Governments, and the current legal case over tariffs is still ongoing, each side believing that they have a valid case.

Ironically, the major winner of this deal, if it goes ahead, will be the creation of hundreds of jobs at Airbus Alabama.

There was good news for Bombardier in the UK this week, with a £500 million deal with West Midlands trains, for the supply of train carriages. This is the fifth deal that Bombardier in Derby have secured, and will lead to the creation of 300 extra direct jobs, as well as others in the supply chain.

So you don't see an irony in the Brexit position on this?

A transnational European company has secured jobs in the UK, at least in the medium term.

This is at a time when we are choosing to distance ourselves from Europe whilst trying to get "other", "better" trade deals.

Primary amongst these is the USA who were the primary threat in this case to UK jobs and industry.

The USA is also one of several countries objecting to our very first WTO request which has been agreed with the EU to simply maintain our quota of tariff free agricultural produce as a percentage of the existing EU one...

Boeing will fight this deal tooth and nail. And with huge political lobby in Washington, they have lots of powerful clout on their side.

They will maintain that Bombardier flouted trade rules with Delta, and they do have a case. Delta got these planes at 66% discount, and the courts have seen that level of discount as "dumping".

They will argue in court, that despite assembly at Airbus at Mobile, Alabama, that all imported parts should be subject to punitive tariffs. This, of course, involves the wings from Bombardier in Belfast.

Delta wants these planes but not at an extra £9 billion. The corporate lawyers in all camps are about to have a very big payday indeed."

The mechanics and logic of this are clear.

That isn't the question though is it?

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Shame Brexit is pushing Bombardier out of NI, silly me it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this idiocy, could it!?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Shame Brexit is pushing Bombardier out of NI, silly me it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this idiocy, could it!? "

Didn't take long for someone to get Brexit in!

How does Brexit sit with Bombardier also getting rid of its North Africa operation at the same time?

This is a move for Bombardier to consolidate and reposition itself in the global market, concentrating all of its aviation manufacturing in Canada, North America and Mexico. A sensible move given the ever increasing turbulent nature of that business.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Shame Brexit is pushing Bombardier out of NI, silly me it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this idiocy, could it!?

Didn't take long for someone to get Brexit in!

How does Brexit sit with Bombardier also getting rid of its North Africa operation at the same time?

This is a move for Bombardier to consolidate and reposition itself in the global market, concentrating all of its aviation manufacturing in Canada, North America and Mexico. A sensible move given the ever increasing turbulent nature of that business. "

So nothing to do with Brexit in the slightest? The additional costs they would incur weren’t going to cause any adverse decision?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Shame Brexit is pushing Bombardier out of NI, silly me it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this idiocy, could it!?

Didn't take long for someone to get Brexit in!

How does Brexit sit with Bombardier also getting rid of its North Africa operation at the same time?

This is a move for Bombardier to consolidate and reposition itself in the global market, concentrating all of its aviation manufacturing in Canada, North America and Mexico. A sensible move given the ever increasing turbulent nature of that business.

So nothing to do with Brexit in the slightest? The additional costs they would incur weren’t going to cause any adverse decision? "

I'm sure that you're happy to think that.

Why are they also closing their Morocco sites as well?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Bonbardier where struggling long before Brexit ever happened

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Bonbardier where struggling long before Brexit ever happened"

actually not so much in the plane sector....

the "C series" actually filled a gap in the market that main competitor Boeing doesn't have a plane for.... which is why the plane has been renamed the Airbus A220, and it is selling very well....

and because Boeing doesn't have a competitor for it, the proposed 300% tariff won't happened....

however.......

because the way bombardier was sold.... they have to keep the Canadian plants going till 2041.... they have opened up a 2nd assembly line in alabama.... so it makes sense switching the wing manufacturing from northern ireland and morocco to mexico because of the NAFTA/USMTA free trade area.....

so not a victim of Brexit Directly as such, but as perfect example of why FTA's are really important, and why the UK leaving the EU FTA isn't the wisest thing to do

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Bonbardier where struggling long before Brexit ever happened"

So why is negative news never the fault of Brexit?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Bonbardier where struggling long before Brexit ever happened

So why is negative news never the fault of Brexit? "
Who said it was?Why do you think that all negative news is connected to Brexit?

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Bonbardier where struggling long before Brexit ever happened

So why is negative news never the fault of Brexit? Who said it was?Why do you think that all negative news is connected to Brexit?"

Have a read of Fabio’s response

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Its all fake news...

Nothing to do with leaving the EU and we will get a great deal from the USA, the Donald says so...

Funny how all the good jobs and the billionaires who support brexit seem to be heading out the door. Its as if they all know what is about to happen to the UK economy and they don't want to be part of it as we leave the EU and strike out bravely on our own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The USA will always put the USA first no matter what

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By *laytimenowMan
over a year ago

Essex

Be interesting to see if The Short brothers name goes back to Belfast.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Bonbardier where struggling long before Brexit ever happened

So why is negative news never the fault of Brexit? Who said it was?Why do you think that all negative news is connected to Brexit?

Have a read of Fabio’s response"

they won't come back... they are all soundbites and no substance...

but it doesn't give a great example of how Free Trade Agreements can be beneficial, and why stepping away from them can be a massive hinderance.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Shame Brexit is pushing Bombardier out of NI, silly me it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this idiocy, could it!? "

might be something to do with asset stripping a company....using brexit as a $moke $creen

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