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What the Chinese think of us

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London

From the South China Morning Post. Essentially official government opinion. Your opinions?

During a heated BBC panel discussion this week on Brexit, an American commentator caused a stir by postulating that Britain was “weak and divided, and relying on old ideas of British greatness”.

A Belgian journalist on the panel ramped up the rhetoric by declaring that Britain was a “completely useless country”.

While that left some stiff upper lips quivering with anger, anyone who watched the cringeworthy fiasco that was Prime Minister Theresa May's rallying call to her Conservative Party last week could be forgiven for jumping to such conclusions.

Worst. Speech. Ever: British PM Theresa May endures prankster and coughing fits before slogan literally falls apart

Critics had a field day ridiculing May, who came across as a leader long past her sell-by date, struggling to finish a stuttering, insipid speech that was interrupted by heckling, coughing fits and even letters of the slogan behind her falling off in a sad display of decrepitude.

We all know that the sun set on the British Empire a long time ago, but how relevant still, really, is Britain on the global stage?

Former foreign secretary Douglas Heard once famously declared that his country's military strength allowed it to punch above its weight. That was back in 1993 when Britain was far more relevant to the rest of the world than it is today. Now you have Boris Johnson, nuff said.

Just last year, General Richard Barrons, a former top British military commander, painted a sorry picture for his compatriots, warning that Britain would not be able to protect itself from a full-scale attack by the likes of Russia.

The fact is, Britain still tries to punch above its weight and project itself as a world leader when in reality it no longer has the military or economic clout to back up the assertion.

Britain is a legend in its own mind, and, to a great extent, the world lets it carry on dancing to its delusional beat of grandeur. Like allowing the country to keep its permanent seat in the UN Security Council, a privilege that is obviously based more on legacy than merit.

Britain is a legend in its own mind, and, to a great extent, the world lets it carry on dancing to its delusional beat of grandeur

There used to be a time when Britain's opinion mattered as much as that of the United States or Europe. The US, for all the jaw-dropping buffoonery with Donald Trump as president, remains the dominant superpower, and the European Union is a still a combined force to be reckoned with. But Britain?

It's worth keeping this in mind to understand why it was a mistake for Hong Kong – whether on its overzealous own or at Beijing's behest – to deny entry to British activist Benedict Rogers.

Hardly anyone in this city had even heard of him until now. If he had been allowed in without a fuss, Rogers would have met the usual suspects among our colonially hung-up cohorts of self-styled “dissidents”, made the obligatory bleating sounds about not giving up the fight for democracy, and left with barely a ripple in his wake.

Instead, we've made a totally unnecessary mini-martyr of him now, and everyone's asking if it will be former governor Chris Patten's turn to be sent back when he visits Hong Kong next.

Anyone – including last governor Chris Patten – could be barred from Hong Kong, Carrie Lam says

Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor did not rule it out, but let's hope that doesn't happen because it would be a counterproductive overreaction.

Patten likes to come here regularly to scoff egg tarts, bask in the swooning adulation of pan-democrats and nostalgic fans of colonial rule, and harrumph at the “decline” of democracy.

He's a friendly, harmless chap, and certainly in no position to destabilise Hong Kong or bring about the downfall of the Chinese Communist Party.

My fellow columnist Alex Lo nailed it when he painted Patten as “the prom queen who keeps going back to every high school reunion because that time in her past was far more exciting than anything she has done since”.

I'd extend that metaphor to put Britain into perspective.

Yonden Lhatoo is the chief news editor at the Post

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Some points valid, others not so.

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By *ilk_TreMan
over a year ago

Wherever the party is!

Pretty accurate IMHO.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

"

Weird that you'd pick that example as China has been pumping aid and infrastructure investments into Sierra Leone for years now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

succint, rapier sharp and surgically precise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Chinese couldn't give a flying fcuk for anyone. Obsessed with taking over world markets with cheap/counterfeit junk!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

"

People from all over the world visit Italy and Greece to gape in awe at the Flavian Amphitheatre and the temple of Athena but that does not mean that Ancient Rome or the Greek City States still live on. The British Empire is just as dead them just the symbols of our empire are still fully in tact. It is a shame that the largest single minority of us here can't accept this and move on, hence brexit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ooooo ... an outdated imperial nerve has clearly been hit by the truth there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sick man of Europe; some would say, terminally ill

- Mrs. J -

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sick man of Europe; some would say, terminally ill

- Mrs. J -"

rotting carcass would be more accurate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

Weird that you'd pick that example as China has been pumping aid and infrastructure investments into Sierra Leone for years now."
.

What for nothing?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"The Chinese couldn't give a flying fcuk for anyone. Obsessed with taking over world markets with cheap/counterfeit junk!"

Like iPhones?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

Weird that you'd pick that example as China has been pumping aid and infrastructure investments into Sierra Leone for years now."

More like China is wanting the mineral wealth out of that country.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"More like China is wanting the mineral wealth out of that country. "

Agreed...

But what do you think we do? Do you think the billions we give in aid to foreign governments is out of largess? And (I know it will be a strain) can you remember what President Trump said the week before last about US policy in Afghanistan? (Hint it had to do with nation building and mineral wealth.) Maybe you can recall the hushed up scandal that emerged after the GW2 when it was disclosed that US DoD contractor Halliburton had been 'diverting' 20 million barrels of oil a day from the Iraqi oilfields since the end of the war and there was no trace of where it went.

At least where the Chinese go they invest in the country and the people see an improvement in infrastructure unlike us who use aid to bribe politicians and when that fails invade and plain steal.

But hey your right we are good and the Chinese bad...

*sings* Land of Hope and Glory. Followed quickly by Rule Britannia...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

Weird that you'd pick that example as China has been pumping aid and infrastructure investments into Sierra Leone for years now."

In fact, after doing so more detailed research, I'm happy to correct the impression that China has not helped out in humanitarian crises.

They did send medical staff and other aid to Sierra Leone, and have contributed aid in other ways to other African countries.

This is seen as part of their diplomatic push to be recognised as a major player. The more cynical would say that this comes at a price but I'm happy to correct the factual inaccuracy I gave in my earlier post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"succint, rapier sharp and surgically precise"

At first I thought you were referring to Mercury's comments...then I realised it didn't contain any derogatory expletives so can only assume you must've cut and pasted!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"succint, rapier sharp and surgically precise

At first I thought you were referring to Mercury's comments...then I realised it didn't contain any derogatory expletives so can only assume you must've cut and pasted!"

who the fuck are you? what the fuck are you talking about?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

"

Chinese students who come here to our top 20 or below universities are usually the new and old middle class with the money to wave side our fees - or the cream of the Crop who couldnt get into the US or Japanese engineering universities/Oxbridge.

I remember meeting a Chinese masters student who said quite frankly that Britain was attractive to chinese students as you can practically buy yourself in and go on a shopping spree.

On this note its worth saying that areas where the UK can still punch hard is in its research in STEM subjects and then patenting them.

Thats great but not everyone in a society can play a role in that section of the economy.

The real problem is that in Britain and America, snd some other EU nations, we have large and aging populations.

This is problematic, those who belong to the working class in these societies want to keep their traditional jobs. But they are being outsourced, made more labour efficient, or automated.

These leads to an economic slump as governments refuse to give people the short end of the stick as they tell their citizens that they need to upskill, and fail to provide them with the means to.

In short we have too many people who are incapable or reluctant to upskill in industries which actually make a nation truely relevant in the world now.

For the record I think we are still relevant, but our influence is rapidly deminishing, we have spent two years twiddling our thumbs, and lets be honest, if this continues and this quality of government continues, we will fade quicker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yet the Chinese students still flock here to study, Chinese tourists come in their droves and Chinese businesses are keen to invest here.

When certain parts of the world are desperate for help, like Sierra Leone, the British are always there. Yet the Chinese are always conspicuous by their absence.

Weird that you'd pick that example as China has been pumping aid and infrastructure investments into Sierra Leone for years now.

In fact, after doing so more detailed research, I'm happy to correct the impression that China has not helped out in humanitarian crises.

They did send medical staff and other aid to Sierra Leone, and have contributed aid in other ways to other African countries.

This is seen as part of their diplomatic push to be recognised as a major player. The more cynical would say that this comes at a price but I'm happy to correct the factual inaccuracy I gave in my earlier post."

Supplying foreign aid is soft power 101.

But that's not to say it's a bad thing.

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London

Does anyone think that the Chinese are desperate to do a trade deal with us on beneficial terms?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Chinese are building there first military Base out side of China in Djibouti.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"The Chinese are building there first military Base out side of China in Djibouti.

"

Interesting, you don't count the artificial island military bases being built in South and East China seas as outside China.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have just wouldn't count them as foreign bases because the sovereignty of the area is contested.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

The Chinese think that we are foreign devils who invaded their country and forced opium upon their population.

For both those examples of national humiliation, they will never forgive Britain.

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London


"The Chinese think that we are foreign devils who invaded their country and forced opium upon their population.

For both those examples of national humiliation, they will never forgive Britain."

They also really don't think that the UK is all that important any more in the scheme of things.

I'm not sure that we have been doing anything to disabuse them of that opinion over the last few years.

I suspect that the USA is not that far behind...

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London

So nobody is going to say that China will step in to replace the lost trade from the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All currencies were backed by the dollar before 1973 and the dollar was backed by gold.

Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard i and 1973 which made all currencies Fiat.

Before that if a country exported more than it imported the currency would get weekend because gold would go to the country producing the exports and the away from the country importing.

Otherwise there would be a balance of payments problem.

The global monetary system has not worked like that since 1973 which is why everyone owes everyone and no one can afford to pay.

The Chinese have been buying lots of gold and they are the biggest producers.

They are also building the new silk road called one road one belt and there are plans to build a bridge across alaska from Russia and all over africa.

The Chinese have very long term plans but the west believes if central government does long term planning it's communist so most of the western plans are very short term.

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By *asyuk OP   Man
over a year ago

West London


"All currencies were backed by the dollar before 1973 and the dollar was backed by gold.

Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard i and 1973 which made all currencies Fiat.

Before that if a country exported more than it imported the currency would get weekend because gold would go to the country producing the exports and the away from the country importing.

Otherwise there would be a balance of payments problem.

The global monetary system has not worked like that since 1973 which is why everyone owes everyone and no one can afford to pay.

The Chinese have been buying lots of gold and they are the biggest producers.

They are also building the new silk road called one road one belt and there are plans to build a bridge across alaska from Russia and all over africa.

The Chinese have very long term plans but the west believes if central government does long term planning it's communist so most of the western plans are very short term. "

It used to be a 5 year horizon.

Sadly it's now just one Twitter cycle

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