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"To be built in UK.... Centaur will think it's great?.....new production despite brexit! CLCC will point out it depends on a transition period. I'll sit back and watch the discussion develop." couple of things need to be pointed out.... 1) the Current Auris is already made here... so a transisition between old and new lines won't be as dramatic as it would be starting somewhere else from scratch 2) same thing applies with supply lines as well... those aren't going to change dramaticallly... 3) toyota sell more of those cars in the UK than they do in the rest of the EU anyway, so it makes sense to base it here if it lessens any effect after the transistion period (during the transistion nothing would change anyway..) 4) since they are looking at a 3 year lead time, and the proposal atm moment is AT least a 2 year transistion period (apr 2021/22 at the earliest) nothing would have changed at that point anyway, 5) basically you need to now in effect wait till after the transistion period to feel the full effect of any change | |||
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"Either way, it's good news." no doubt... keeps the status as it is job wise (no gains or losses...) if you are looking at a 3 yr solution and nothing is going to change for the next 4 yrs at least... its sensible | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. no doubt... keeps the status as it is job wise (no gains or losses...) if you are looking at a 3 yr solution and nothing is going to change for the next 4 yrs at least... its sensible" During that period we will probably just be coming out or just come out of a transition. So there should be no tariffs in place, and potentially zero tariffs negotiated. If I were in government, I would also be giving them assurances that if export tariffs were imposed, that the there would be a massive reinvestment of the corresponding import tariffs. | |||
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"Either way, it's good news." No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news." They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. " I missed the bit in the campaigns where it was claimed jobs would be created before we actually left. If you could post a link to those claims, I'd like to complain to whoever made them. I do remember the warnings of armagedon in the weeks following a Leave vote though. | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news." No, it is not. If they had announced they were reducing or ceasing production and laying staff off it would have been bad news. If they had announced they were increasing production and taking staff on it would have been good news. They have said that nothing is changing. that is neither good or bad news. In fact it is not news! A lot more to the point, when things have reached a point where the media is telling you that not getting bad news is good news you really should know you've been totally fucked over! But I guess that basic truth will be totally lost on you. | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news. No, it is not. If they had announced they were reducing or ceasing production and laying staff off it would have been bad news. If they had announced they were increasing production and taking staff on it would have been good news. They have said that nothing is changing. that is neither good or bad news. In fact it is not news! A lot more to the point, when things have reached a point where the media is telling you that not getting bad news is good news you really should know you've been totally fucked over! But I guess that basic truth will be totally lost on you." It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news. No, it is not. If they had announced they were reducing or ceasing production and laying staff off it would have been bad news. If they had announced they were increasing production and taking staff on it would have been good news. They have said that nothing is changing. that is neither good or bad news. In fact it is not news! A lot more to the point, when things have reached a point where the media is telling you that not getting bad news is good news you really should know you've been totally fucked over! But I guess that basic truth will be totally lost on you. It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news." Apart from the ones that have you mean? | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? " Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good." So just so we are clear, so far we have some jobs lost, some jobs kept, and no jobs created. Do you tell your employees that they are lucky not to have been sacked at the end of each week? | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news." No they havnt confirmed it...what they have said....is this It will be built in the UK as long as there is a transitional period negotiated | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news. No they havnt confirmed it...what they have said....is this It will be built in the UK as long as there is a transitional period negotiated " Oh, now that sound a bit different  | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. " Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news. No they havnt confirmed it...what they have said....is this It will be built in the UK as long as there is a transitional period negotiated Oh, now that sound a bit different "You could see darkness on a sunny day so sad | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. No... It is not bad news... But that does not make it good news. They have confirmed continued production at burnaston. That's good news. No they havnt confirmed it...what they have said....is this It will be built in the UK as long as there is a transitional period negotiated Oh, now that sound a bit different "Half truths yet again from these brexiters...and the way May and Davis are going that aint going to happen....so much for hard brextiers and fuck them attitudes...i did post about what was being said by ALL of the car manufacturers a couple of weeks ago at the Frankfurt motor show...they were interviewed on TV about it | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple" NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good." the point being made is there a net gain/loss of zero jobs.... if you can spin that into a positive.... cool... I am guess there is a net gain of zero jobs between yesterday and today.... and there will probably be a net gain of zero jobs between today and tomorrow.... this week and next week.....net gain, zero jobs (probably) nothings going to change till 2021 anyway, new replacing older model based.... if i was being brutal i could say "nothing to see here!" | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. So just so we are clear, so far we have some jobs lost, some jobs kept, and no jobs created. Do you tell your employees that they are lucky not to have been sacked at the end of each week? " You've decided to not bother mentioning my comment earlier about the campaigns. I never saw any claims that there would be job gains immideiately after the vote, prior to exit. Did you? There were lots of warnings about swift and brutal job losses following an exit vote. Some jobs have gone / going (eu drug regulation thing) and also jobs confimed as safe / staying that could have gone eg the car manufacturers. The apocalypse predicted hasn't transpired. Good news? Yes. Unless the desire to be right rules your life. My employees are happy to be working in a sucessful business that is expanding at home and in export markets. I'll pass on your good wishes to them. | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. the point being made is there a net gain/loss of zero jobs.... if you can spin that into a positive.... cool... I am guess there is a net gain of zero jobs between yesterday and today.... and there will probably be a net gain of zero jobs between today and tomorrow.... this week and next week.....net gain, zero jobs (probably) nothings going to change till 2021 anyway, new replacing older model based.... if i was being brutal i could say "nothing to see here!" " Fabio, I think part of the point being made is that there was a big play during the campaign of armagedon that would immediately follow on exit vote. As time goes by, and opportunities for companies to leave pass, those predictions look more like spin. | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. the point being made is there a net gain/loss of zero jobs.... if you can spin that into a positive.... cool... I am guess there is a net gain of zero jobs between yesterday and today.... and there will probably be a net gain of zero jobs between today and tomorrow.... this week and next week.....net gain, zero jobs (probably) nothings going to change till 2021 anyway, new replacing older model based.... if i was being brutal i could say "nothing to see here!" Fabio, I think part of the point being made is that there was a big play during the campaign of armagedon that would immediately follow on exit vote. As time goes by, and opportunities for companies to leave pass, those predictions look more like spin." You obviously missed what Toyota has said....and we are still in the EU lots of companies are threatening to leave the UK ....car manufactures being one group....i think you post what you think looks good....fingers crossed this government have not or wont fuck brexit up enough for them to leave and relocate | |||
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" Fabio, I think part of the point being made is that there was a big play during the campaign of armagedon that would immediately follow on exit vote. As time goes by, and opportunities for companies to leave pass, those predictions look more like spin. You obviously missed what Toyota has said....and we are still in the EU lots of companies are threatening to leave the UK ....car manufactures being one group....i think you post what you think looks good....fingers crossed this government have not or wont fuck brexit up enough for them to leave and relocate " They are more than capable of fucking it up. The election was an opportunity for another party to offer a credible, believable alternative. | |||
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" Fabio, I think part of the point being made is that there was a big play during the campaign of armagedon that would immediately follow on exit vote. As time goes by, and opportunities for companies to leave pass, those predictions look more like spin. You obviously missed what Toyota has said....and we are still in the EU lots of companies are threatening to leave the UK ....car manufactures being one group....i think you post what you think looks good....fingers crossed this government have not or wont fuck brexit up enough for them to leave and relocate They are more than capable of fucking it up. The election was an opportunity for another party to offer a credible, believable alternative." They are doing what some people wished for....and the other party would had too...its a pity they didnt get a few more votes | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. I missed the bit in the campaigns where it was claimed jobs would be created before we actually left. If you could post a link to those claims, I'd like to complain to whoever made them. I do remember the warnings of armagedon in the weeks following a Leave vote though." Here is the quote for you. "In the last few years, the EU has sought to complete five key trade deals, with the USA, Japan, ASEAN, India and Mercosur. Because of protectionism in other European countries, the EU has failed to get a trade deal with any of these countries. When we Vote Leave we will be able to do trade deals with all of these countries much more quickly. According to the EU’s own figures this will create 284,000 new jobs in the UK”. Vote Leave press release, 12 May 2016 | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good." Those are not opposites. | |||
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"The election was an opportunity for another party to offer a credible, believable alternative." Another party did (labour) but everyone believed the tories and the press when they said what labour offered was economic suicide. Funny how barely 4 months on from that election May has announced as new tory policies watered down versions of labours manifesto but with one major difference. That being that instead of money being given to councils to build social housing (seems the tories have found the magic money tree again) it will be given to private developers to build 'affordable' housing that costs about 30% more to construct because private contractors need to make profits and 50% more to rent because private landlords also need to make profits. And of course she also announced that she will introduce a Marxist energy cap bill in the next few weeks! Maybe rather than spouting the tory line of shit you should stop, go to a mirror, look yourself strait in the eyes and ask yourself how come even after they plain lied to you in 2010 and days after gaining power screwed you over then did the same in 2015 you helped vote them back into power 4 months ago? Let me know if get an answer and if the face looking back at you was able to look you in the eye when answering. | |||
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" I missed the bit in the campaigns where it was claimed jobs would be created before we actually left. If you could post a link to those claims, I'd like to complain to whoever made them. I do remember the warnings of armagedon in the weeks following a Leave vote though. Here is the quote for you. "In the last few years, the EU has sought to complete five key trade deals, with the USA, Japan, ASEAN, India and Mercosur. Because of protectionism in other European countries, the EU has failed to get a trade deal with any of these countries. When we Vote Leave we will be able to do trade deals with all of these countries much more quickly. According to the EU’s own figures this will create 284,000 new jobs in the UK”. Vote Leave press release, 12 May 2016" Yes, when we leave, maybe. But we haven't left. | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. So just so we are clear, so far we have some jobs lost, some jobs kept, and no jobs created. Do you tell your employees that they are lucky not to have been sacked at the end of each week? " Don't wish to piss on your chips....but overall employment has risen by well over 100,000 since the referendum.... unemployment now at 40+ year low.... And I'm not saying that is either despite or because of the vote...just raw figures! | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. Those are not opposites." That's right. But the fear instilled by Remain was that there would be job losses. This is just an example of a company staying when they could have used the new model as an opportunity to relocate. | |||
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" Don't wish to piss on your chips....but overall employment has risen by well over 100,000 since the referendum.... unemployment now at 40+ year low.... And I'm not saying that is either despite or because of the vote...just raw figures!" It's 'despite'. Good things are co-incidental. All bad things are brexit related.  | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. Those are not opposites. That's right. But the fear instilled by Remain was that there would be job losses. This is just an example of a company staying when they could have used the new model as an opportunity to relocate. " What don't you get about Toyota's statement....THEY said IT will ONLY be built IF there's a transitional period...of which is NOT guaranteed....stop giving out false information LIKE the leave campaign did....lets hope YOUR tory party pills there fingers out and gets a good deal.....  | |||
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" I missed the bit in the campaigns where it was claimed jobs would be created before we actually left. If you could post a link to those claims, I'd like to complain to whoever made them. I do remember the warnings of armagedon in the weeks following a Leave vote though. Here is the quote for you. "In the last few years, the EU has sought to complete five key trade deals, with the USA, Japan, ASEAN, India and Mercosur. Because of protectionism in other European countries, the EU has failed to get a trade deal with any of these countries. When we Vote Leave we will be able to do trade deals with all of these countries much more quickly. According to the EU’s own figures this will create 284,000 new jobs in the UK”. Vote Leave press release, 12 May 2016 Yes, when we leave, maybe. But we haven't left." And the same analogy may go for losing jobs as well.....jeez talk about being hypocritical just about sums up you brexiters | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. Those are not opposites. That's right. But the fear instilled by Remain was that there would be job losses. This is just an example of a company staying when they could have used the new model as an opportunity to relocate. " so basically what you are saying is that a "net zero jobs impact " is a win....... its not a new model... it is an updated version of a current model and if you are talking about basically the same car then it makes sense to make it in the same place you are now because they already have all the skills needed but for a few tweeks.... and all the supply lines are already there but for a few tweeks.... | |||
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" What don't you get about Toyota's statement....THEY said IT will ONLY be built IF there's a transitional period...of which is NOT guaranteed....stop giving out false information LIKE the leave campaign did....lets hope YOUR tory party pills there fingers out and gets a good deal..... "Why do you turn nasty so easily? I'm not 'giving out' any false information. And I'm not a tory. And I don't need all the shouty capitals. Maybe try to have a normal conversation, people might listen to what you are saying then. | |||
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" That's right. But the fear instilled by Remain was that there would be job losses. This is just an example of a company staying when they could have used the new model as an opportunity to relocate. so basically what you are saying is that a "net zero jobs impact " is a win....... its not a new model... it is an updated version of a current model and if you are talking about basically the same car then it makes sense to make it in the same place you are now because they already have all the skills needed but for a few tweeks.... and all the supply lines are already there but for a few tweeks...." No, I'm saying it's good, positive news, when it could have been very different. I've worked in the automotive supply chain for 15 years, so I actually know what's involved in 'minor tweaks'. Its generally a lot of tooling and often involves re-sourcing to new suppliers. I'm pleased. Others can feel how they choose. | |||
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" What don't you get about Toyota's statement....THEY said IT will ONLY be built IF there's a transitional period...of which is NOT guaranteed....stop giving out false information LIKE the leave campaign did....lets hope YOUR tory party pills there fingers out and gets a good deal.....
Why do you turn nasty so easily?
I'm not 'giving out' any false information.
And I'm not a tory.
And I don't need all the shouty capitals.
Maybe try to have a normal conversation, people might listen to what you are saying then."I posted early about it. You are giving out false information. Ofc your not a tory. You take no notice of anyone unless they agree...the capitals are to highlight what Toyota actually said | |||
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" I missed the bit in the campaigns where it was claimed jobs would be created before we actually left. If you could post a link to those claims, I'd like to complain to whoever made them. I do remember the warnings of armagedon in the weeks following a Leave vote though. Here is the quote for you. "In the last few years, the EU has sought to complete five key trade deals, with the USA, Japan, ASEAN, India and Mercosur. Because of protectionism in other European countries, the EU has failed to get a trade deal with any of these countries. When we Vote Leave we will be able to do trade deals with all of these countries much more quickly. According to the EU’s own figures this will create 284,000 new jobs in the UK”. Vote Leave press release, 12 May 2016 Yes, when we leave, maybe. But we haven't left." It clearly says when we vote. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures " According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. " Dutch Financial and business group TMF is relocating it's headquarters from Amsterdam to London, in order to service the many opportunities created by Brexit. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September." Would that be the report from 2016 ? | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. Would that be the report from 2016 ?" This is from the ONS report of 19th September 2017, and it quotes the latest figures that they have. 1.7 million in May 2016, 1.4 million in May 2017. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September." Number of zero-hours contracts stalls at 'staggering' 1.7m ONS statistics suggest faltering popularity in UK, but campaigners warn of rise of short-hours contracts for workers Growth in zero-hours contracts has stalled in the UK, according to the latest official figures, but campaigners have warned that insecure work is still a problem in Britain. There were 1.7m zero-hours contracts in the UK in November 2016, representing 6% of all employment contracts – unchanged from a year earlier. The Office for National Statistics said the number of firms using zero-hours contracts had fallen Well theres something to be proud of then.....6% of our work force with the very basic of human rights and very little protection Nice on you for trying to slant it though | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. Would that be the report from 2016 ? This is from the ONS report of 19th September 2017, and it quotes the latest figures that they have. 1.7 million in May 2016, 1.4 million in May 2017." Zero-hours contracts rise to 903,000 workers. The number of people saying they are on zero-hours contracts has risen, according to official figures. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said there were about 903,000 people whose main job did not guarantee a minimum number of hours between April and June.8 Sep 2016 | |||
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"You need to get upto speed with the latest figures." Or the ONS does maybe eh ...to sets of figures for the same year...i posted them twice deliberately | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. Would that be the report from 2016 ? This is from the ONS report of 19th September 2017, and it quotes the latest figures that they have. 1.7 million in May 2016, 1.4 million in May 2017. Zero-hours contracts rise to 903,000 workers. The number of people saying they are on zero-hours contracts has risen, according to official figures. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said there were about 903,000 people whose main job did not guarantee a minimum number of hours between April and June.8 Sep 2016" That 903000 is now 883000. A fall on both counts. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. Would that be the report from 2016 ? This is from the ONS report of 19th September 2017, and it quotes the latest figures that they have. 1.7 million in May 2016, 1.4 million in May 2017. Zero-hours contracts rise to 903,000 workers. The number of people saying they are on zero-hours contracts has risen, according to official figures. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said there were about 903,000 people whose main job did not guarantee a minimum number of hours between April and June.8 Sep 2016 That 903000 is now 883000. A fall on both counts." Bullshit you know it | |||
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"Our local East Midlands news ran a report on the Toyota story tonight. Toyota have now clarified that no decisions have been made, current production is assured until 2021, and they do not comment on future production plans." If a transition period is agreed with the EU...otherwise no guarantee....stop slanting the story as per | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. Would that be the report from 2016 ? This is from the ONS report of 19th September 2017, and it quotes the latest figures that they have. 1.7 million in May 2016, 1.4 million in May 2017. Zero-hours contracts rise to 903,000 workers. The number of people saying they are on zero-hours contracts has risen, according to official figures. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said there were about 903,000 people whose main job did not guarantee a minimum number of hours between April and June.8 Sep 2016 That 903000 is now 883000. A fall on both counts. Bullshit you know it " I'll let you direct that remark at the ONS, who are a neutral organisation. | |||
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"It's good news that these people haven't lost their jobs as a result of Brexit, but other people have lost their jobs. I am still waiting for a thread where someone announces jobs created specifically because of Brexit. Not in spite of Brexit, not just keeping a job, but actually new job creation as a direct result of Brexit. Unemployment is falling so there must be more jobs simple NO its not...zero hours contracts are increasing thats what screwing the unemployment figures According to the ONS, Zero hours contracts fell in the last year. Reported by the BBC in September. Would that be the report from 2016 ? This is from the ONS report of 19th September 2017, and it quotes the latest figures that they have. 1.7 million in May 2016, 1.4 million in May 2017. Zero-hours contracts rise to 903,000 workers. The number of people saying they are on zero-hours contracts has risen, according to official figures. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said there were about 903,000 people whose main job did not guarantee a minimum number of hours between April and June.8 Sep 2016 That 903000 is now 883000. A fall on both counts. Bullshit you know it I'll let you direct that remark at the ONS, who are a neutral organisation." Neutral ???? | |||
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"Our local East Midlands news ran a report on the Toyota story tonight. Toyota have now clarified that no decisions have been made, current production is assured until 2021, and they do not comment on future production plans." Oh, so not really a good news story after all then? | |||
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"Our local East Midlands news ran a report on the Toyota story tonight. Toyota have now clarified that no decisions have been made, current production is assured until 2021, and they do not comment on future production plans. If a transition period is agreed with the EU...otherwise no guarantee....stop slanting the story as per "I've seen and read the Toyota statement. Nowhere does it link building of the new model Auris being dependent on a "transitional period". In fact, the statement doesn't even mention "transitional period" | |||
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"Our local East Midlands news ran a report on the Toyota story tonight. Toyota have now clarified that no decisions have been made, current production is assured until 2021, and they do not comment on future production plans. If a transition period is agreed with the EU...otherwise no guarantee....stop slanting the story as per
I've seen and read the Toyota statement. Nowhere does it link building of the new model Auris being dependent on a "transitional period". In fact, the statement doesn't even mention "transitional period""Here you go Toyota set to build new Auris car at Derby plant based on THIS Brexit detail CAR giant Toyota is set to build the next edition of the Auris model in Derbyshire, securing investment and thousands of jobs in Britain - as long as the Government secures a transitional Brexit deal. Brexit boost: Toyota is set to build the next generation of Auris in Derbyshire The Japanese manufacturer puts together the current generation of Auris hatchbacks at its Burnaston plant, and is set to continue with the next run from around 2021. Toyota's decision would guarantee the future of one of Britain's biggest car plants - and the jobs of thousands of workers. A final decision will be made at the end of the year, according to sources. But progress on a so-called transitional exit from the European Union (EU) could seal Toyota's commitment to Burnaston. Earlier this year, the firm said it would invest £240 million to upgrade to a new global car-building platform in Derbyshire(which is a government subside BTW) , but has not confirmed which models it will build going forward. The investment decision was thought to have been helped by a government letter reassuring Toyota over post-Brexit trading arrangements. http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/863077/Brexit-news-deal-Toyota-Auris-car-Derby-burnaston-plant | |||
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"Our local East Midlands news ran a report on the Toyota story tonight. Toyota have now clarified that no decisions have been made, current production is assured until 2021, and they do not comment on future production plans. If a transition period is agreed with the EU...otherwise no guarantee....stop slanting the story as per
I've seen and read the Toyota statement. Nowhere does it link building of the new model Auris being dependent on a "transitional period". In fact, the statement doesn't even mention "transitional period"
Here you go
Toyota set to build new Auris car at Derby plant based on THIS Brexit detail
CAR giant Toyota is set to build the next edition of the Auris model in Derbyshire, securing investment and thousands of jobs in Britain - as long as the Government secures a transitional Brexit deal.
Brexit boost: Toyota is set to build the next generation of Auris in Derbyshire
The Japanese manufacturer puts together the current generation of Auris hatchbacks at its Burnaston plant, and is set to continue with the next run from around 2021.
Toyota's decision would guarantee the future of one of Britain's biggest car plants - and the jobs of thousands of workers.
A final decision will be made at the end of the year, according to sources.
But progress on a so-called transitional exit from the European Union (EU) could seal Toyota's commitment to Burnaston.
Earlier this year, the firm said it would invest £240 million to upgrade to a new global car-building platform in Derbyshire(which is a government subside BTW) , but has not confirmed which models it will build going forward.
The investment decision was thought to have been helped by a government letter reassuring Toyota over post-Brexit trading arrangements.
http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/863077/Brexit-news-deal-Toyota-Auris-car-Derby-burnaston-plant
"That's a press report, not the Toyota statement of October 6th! All the press reports are quoting a Reuters report, that uses "sources". I reiterate.. that the official Toyota statement does NOT even include the words "Auris" or "transitional period" | |||
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"Our local East Midlands news ran a report on the Toyota story tonight. Toyota have now clarified that no decisions have been made, current production is assured until 2021, and they do not comment on future production plans. If a transition period is agreed with the EU...otherwise no guarantee....stop slanting the story as per
I've seen and read the Toyota statement. Nowhere does it link building of the new model Auris being dependent on a "transitional period". In fact, the statement doesn't even mention "transitional period"
Here you go
Toyota set to build new Auris car at Derby plant based on THIS Brexit detail
CAR giant Toyota is set to build the next edition of the Auris model in Derbyshire, securing investment and thousands of jobs in Britain - as long as the Government secures a transitional Brexit deal.
Brexit boost: Toyota is set to build the next generation of Auris in Derbyshire
The Japanese manufacturer puts together the current generation of Auris hatchbacks at its Burnaston plant, and is set to continue with the next run from around 2021.
Toyota's decision would guarantee the future of one of Britain's biggest car plants - and the jobs of thousands of workers.
A final decision will be made at the end of the year, according to sources.
But progress on a so-called transitional exit from the European Union (EU) could seal Toyota's commitment to Burnaston.
Earlier this year, the firm said it would invest £240 million to upgrade to a new global car-building platform in Derbyshire(which is a government subside BTW) , but has not confirmed which models it will build going forward.
The investment decision was thought to have been helped by a government letter reassuring Toyota over post-Brexit trading arrangements.
http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/863077/Brexit-news-deal-Toyota-Auris-car-Derby-burnaston-plant
That's a press report, not the Toyota statement of October 6th!
All the press reports are quoting a Reuters report, that uses "sources". I reiterate.. that the official Toyota statement does NOT even include the words "Auris" or "transitional period""Its also being reported on Sky News as well | |||
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"So many people have such certainty about high technology industries and how and why they make decisions with absolutely no understanding. Nothing will move anywhere in the short to medium term. They have already made a huge investment in infrastructure and training and the marginal cost of reconfiguring a production line for a new car is fine. Raw materials and sub assembly imports are also fine whilst tariff barriers are not a concern. The problem comes with new investment. If production facilities here are on the other side of trade barriers no new capital expenditure will be made, especially if wage levels remain reasonable and import and export duties rise. Cutting edge technology will go to other countries and staff skills will stagnate. This will be as a consequence of nothing but sensible business decisions. No news now is relevant. We suffer from the British condition of being utterly unable to think in the long term." Partially true. Personally, I do understand high tech industry and automotive very well. The British condition also prevalent in some, is a lack of awareness of how good we can be, how well we are perceived abroad and the assumption other nations are better at everything than us. | |||
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"So many people have such certainty about high technology industries and how and why they make decisions with absolutely no understanding. Nothing will move anywhere in the short to medium term. They have already made a huge investment in infrastructure and training and the marginal cost of reconfiguring a production line for a new car is fine. Raw materials and sub assembly imports are also fine whilst tariff barriers are not a concern. The problem comes with new investment. If production facilities here are on the other side of trade barriers no new capital expenditure will be made, especially if wage levels remain reasonable and import and export duties rise. Cutting edge technology will go to other countries and staff skills will stagnate. This will be as a consequence of nothing but sensible business decisions. No news now is relevant. We suffer from the British condition of being utterly unable to think in the long term. Partially true. Personally, I do understand high tech industry and automotive very well. The British condition also prevalent in some, is a lack of awareness of how good we can be, how well we are perceived abroad and the assumption other nations are better at everything than us." Or the same assumption can be made that we think we are better at it than they are...at the end of the day it will come down to cost.....if it increases there costs being here then they will move...its part of the business thinking...dont forget that the EU has invested an awful amount of money in most of these car plants | |||
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"So many people have such certainty about high technology industries and how and why they make decisions with absolutely no understanding. Nothing will move anywhere in the short to medium term. They have already made a huge investment in infrastructure and training and the marginal cost of reconfiguring a production line for a new car is fine. Raw materials and sub assembly imports are also fine whilst tariff barriers are not a concern. The problem comes with new investment. If production facilities here are on the other side of trade barriers no new capital expenditure will be made, especially if wage levels remain reasonable and import and export duties rise. Cutting edge technology will go to other countries and staff skills will stagnate. This will be as a consequence of nothing but sensible business decisions. No news now is relevant. We suffer from the British condition of being utterly unable to think in the long term. Partially true. Personally, I do understand high tech industry and automotive very well. The British condition also prevalent in some, is a lack of awareness of how good we can be, how well we are perceived abroad and the assumption other nations are better at everything than us." Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes. | |||
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" Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes." Well, we'll have to differ, as I know through personal experience in different industries that people have a high regard for British designed and built products. Luckily, I'm also not burdend with your pessimism of the future. | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. no doubt... keeps the status as it is job wise (no gains or losses...) if you are looking at a 3 yr solution and nothing is going to change for the next 4 yrs at least... its sensible During that period we will probably just be coming out or just come out of a transition. So there should be no tariffs in place, and potentially zero tariffs negotiated. If I were in government, I would also be giving them assurances that if export tariffs were imposed, that the there would be a massive reinvestment of the corresponding import tariffs." That would be illegal under both WTO and EU rules on the grounds that it would be considered a subsidy, giving then the right to apply further even higher tariffs. If getting around tariffs was simple there would be no point in having them, would there? | |||
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"Either way, it's good news. no doubt... keeps the status as it is job wise (no gains or losses...) if you are looking at a 3 yr solution and nothing is going to change for the next 4 yrs at least... its sensible During that period we will probably just be coming out or just come out of a transition. So there should be no tariffs in place, and potentially zero tariffs negotiated. If I were in government, I would also be giving them assurances that if export tariffs were imposed, that the there would be a massive reinvestment of the corresponding import tariffs. That would be illegal under both WTO and EU rules on the grounds that it would be considered a subsidy, giving then the right to apply further even higher tariffs. If getting around tariffs was simple there would be no point in having them, would there?" No it's not illegal. We give about 0.3% of gdp in state aid subsidies. Germany gives four times as much about 1.2%. So we have loads of leeway even under current eu rules. Plus it could be invested in training / education / infrastructure around the plants so as to not be direct subsidy anyway. The the other thread about our poor productivity compared to germany. Lack of investment of this type is one of the reasons. | |||
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"So many people have such certainty about high technology industries and how and why they make decisions with absolutely no understanding. Nothing will move anywhere in the short to medium term. They have already made a huge investment in infrastructure and training and the marginal cost of reconfiguring a production line for a new car is fine. Raw materials and sub assembly imports are also fine whilst tariff barriers are not a concern. The problem comes with new investment. If production facilities here are on the other side of trade barriers no new capital expenditure will be made, especially if wage levels remain reasonable and import and export duties rise. Cutting edge technology will go to other countries and staff skills will stagnate. This will be as a consequence of nothing but sensible business decisions. No news now is relevant. We suffer from the British condition of being utterly unable to think in the long term. Partially true. Personally, I do understand high tech industry and automotive very well. The British condition also prevalent in some, is a lack of awareness of how good we can be, how well we are perceived abroad and the assumption other nations are better at everything than us." Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? | |||
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" Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? " I don't know of any vacuum cleaners made in the Philippines. If you see a 'made in the Philippines' would you go for that vacuum cleaner? | |||
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" Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? I don't know of any vacuum cleaners made in the Philippines. If you see a 'made in the Philippines' would you go for that vacuum cleaner?" Would you buy one made in Malaysia? | |||
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" Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? I don't know of any vacuum cleaners made in the Philippines. If you see a 'made in the Philippines' would you go for that vacuum cleaner? Would you buy one made in Malaysia?" I think that's what he meant, but after muddling up his SE Asian countries, couldn't bare to come back | |||
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" Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? I don't know of any vacuum cleaners made in the Philippines. If you see a 'made in the Philippines' would you go for that vacuum cleaner? Would you buy one made in Malaysia? I think that's what he meant, but after muddling up his SE Asian countries, couldn't bare to come back "I see you missed me! I did indeed get muddled up with where Dyson make their vacuums. So who is better at building vacuum cleaners? How about TVs? Smart phones? Laptops? | |||
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" Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes. Well, we'll have to differ, as I know through personal experience in different industries that people have a high regard for British designed and built products. Luckily, I'm also not burdend with your pessimism of the future. "Actually, improvements are generally made by acknowledging and correcting existing and potential problems, not by sunny optimism. I actually wrote, unambiguously, that mass manufacturing, which generates a lot of reasonably well paid jobs, is unremarkable in the UK. I said that design was one aspect of engineering that was highly regarded. However, I am interested to know what we produce at scale that is so much better than anyone else. | |||
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" Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes. Well, we'll have to differ, as I know through personal experience in different industries that people have a high regard for British designed and built products. Luckily, I'm also not burdend with your pessimism of the future.
Actually, improvements are generally made by acknowledging and correcting existing and potential problems, not by sunny optimism.
I actually wrote, unambiguously, that mass manufacturing, which generates a lot of reasonably well paid jobs, is unremarkable in the UK.
I said that design was one aspect of engineering that was highly regarded.
However, I am interested to know what we produce at scale that is so much better than anyone else."Actually, I didn't explicitly say design being internationally highly rated. Oops
Main point is about manufacturing though, which a big chunk of the jobs for "normal" people reside and are far more sensitive to tariffs.
Also do not ignore the very high number of foreign engineers and scientists who very, very clearly no longer feel welcome. This is really how they feel. | |||
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" Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes. Well, we'll have to differ, as I know through personal experience in different industries that people have a high regard for British designed and built products. Luckily, I'm also not burdend with your pessimism of the future.
Actually, improvements are generally made by acknowledging and correcting existing and potential problems, not by sunny optimism.
I actually wrote, unambiguously, that mass manufacturing, which generates a lot of reasonably well paid jobs, is unremarkable in the UK.
I said that design was one aspect of engineering that was highly regarded.
However, I am interested to know what we produce at scale that is so much better than anyone else."I am optimistic yes. I've been involved in worldwide technology and automotive manufacturing all my working life. I understand optimism as well as addressing and finding problems. I have enough 8 D experience than you can shake a stick at. Give it a try and see if you think it's something a blind optimistic can tackle. It might suit your agenda better to paint people as foolish flag wavers. Personally, I'm not in that camp. I didn't say we were better than everybody else. I said our design and manufacturing is world class and well respected. So, I'll remain pragmatic and optimistic. | |||
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" Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? I don't know of any vacuum cleaners made in the Philippines. If you see a 'made in the Philippines' would you go for that vacuum cleaner? Would you buy one made in Malaysia? I think that's what he meant, but after muddling up his SE Asian countries, couldn't bare to come back
I see you missed me! I did indeed get muddled up with where Dyson make their vacuums. So who is better at building vacuum cleaners? How about TVs? Smart phones? Laptops? "'Miss' is the wrong word..... Is that the first time ever in a forum, you've conceded to a making an error? Long may it continue. Dyson are good vacuum cleaners, I had one. Unfortunately manufacturing has been allowed to decline for so long, choices aren't available. Your mate Maggie had a similar dislike of manufacturing and love of the service / financial sector. Germany have been infinitely better than the uk at understanding and valuing engineering. There are lots of lessons to be learnt there too. The places you mention aren't better at making those things, they simply have a massive pool of low cost labour. Is that what you prefer? . Ps well done in playing the 175 game on the other thread. Having the last word doesn't make you right though. | |||
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" Do you think the Philippines are better at building vacuum cleaners than us? I don't know of any vacuum cleaners made in the Philippines. If you see a 'made in the Philippines' would you go for that vacuum cleaner? Would you buy one made in Malaysia? I think that's what he meant, but after muddling up his SE Asian countries, couldn't bare to come back
I see you missed me! I did indeed get muddled up with where Dyson make their vacuums. So who is better at building vacuum cleaners? How about TVs? Smart phones? Laptops?
'Miss' is the wrong word..... Is that the first time ever in a forum, you've conceded to a making an error? Long may it continue.
Dyson are good vacuum cleaners, I had one. Unfortunately manufacturing has been allowed to decline for so long, choices aren't available. Your mate Maggie had a similar dislike of manufacturing and love of the service / financial sector. Germany have been infinitely better than the uk at understanding and valuing engineering. There are lots of lessons to be learnt there too.
The places you mention aren't better at making those things, they simply have a massive pool of low cost labour. Is that what you prefer?
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Ps well done in playing the 175 game on the other thread. Having the last word doesn't make you right though. "So basically you are saying that places like Germany are better at manufacturing because they have invested and we haven't, and other parts of the world are better because they are cheaper. Hardly makes Britain world class for manufacturing then does it? | |||
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" 'Miss' is the wrong word..... Is that the first time ever in a forum, you've conceded to a making an error? Long may it continue. Dyson are good vacuum cleaners, I had one. Unfortunately manufacturing has been allowed to decline for so long, choices aren't available. Your mate Maggie had a similar dislike of manufacturing and love of the service / financial sector. Germany have been infinitely better than the uk at understanding and valuing engineering. There are lots of lessons to be learnt there too. The places you mention aren't better at making those things, they simply have a massive pool of low cost labour. Is that what you prefer? . Ps well done in playing the 175 game on the other thread. Having the last word doesn't make you right though. So basically you are saying that places like Germany are better at manufacturing because they have invested and we haven't, and other parts of the world are better because they are cheaper. Hardly makes Britain world class for manufacturing then does it?" Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you. | |||
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" 'Miss' is the wrong word..... Is that the first time ever in a forum, you've conceded to a making an error? Long may it continue. Dyson are good vacuum cleaners, I had one. Unfortunately manufacturing has been allowed to decline for so long, choices aren't available. Your mate Maggie had a similar dislike of manufacturing and love of the service / financial sector. Germany have been infinitely better than the uk at understanding and valuing engineering. There are lots of lessons to be learnt there too. The places you mention aren't better at making those things, they simply have a massive pool of low cost labour. Is that what you prefer? . Ps well done in playing the 175 game on the other thread. Having the last word doesn't make you right though. So basically you are saying that places like Germany are better at manufacturing because they have invested and we haven't, and other parts of the world are better because they are cheaper. Hardly makes Britain world class for manufacturing then does it? Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you." All I did was summarise and repeat back what you had already said!  | |||
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" Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you. All I did was summarise and repeat back what you had already said! "No, you just like to twist what people say to match your sad little negative outlook of our abilities. This country has and always will be advanced by people with positivity and belief. Pointless explaining any of that to you. | |||
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" Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you. All I did was summarise and repeat back what you had already said!
No, you just like to twist what people say to match your sad little negative outlook of our abilities.
This country has and always will be advanced by people with positivity and belief. Pointless explaining any of that to you."Your view of our abilities is that they hav been "allowed to decline for so long". You are the negative one, not me! | |||
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" Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you. All I did was summarise and repeat back what you had already said!
No, you just like to twist what people say to match your sad little negative outlook of our abilities.
This country has and always will be advanced by people with positivity and belief. Pointless explaining any of that to you."the problem for me is that you tried to spin it into a positive brexit story, when it was jobs neutral, and all potential changes to the plant were going to be made potentially under the rules that were currently in place....... i am happy people are keeping their jobs... they will be doing the same jobs tomorrow as there are today!!! good for them.... but because my job doesn't change tomorrow you can't call it a "positive step for brexit" you tried to spin it and you got called on it.... nothing more! | |||
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" Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you. All I did was summarise and repeat back what you had already said!
No, you just like to twist what people say to match your sad little negative outlook of our abilities.
This country has and always will be advanced by people with positivity and belief. Pointless explaining any of that to you.
the problem for me is that you tried to spin it into a positive brexit story, when it was jobs neutral, and all potential changes to the plant were going to be made potentially under the rules that were currently in place.......
i am happy people are keeping their jobs... they will be doing the same jobs tomorrow as there are today!!! good for them....
but because my job doesn't change tomorrow you can't call it a "positive step for brexit"
you tried to spin it and you got called on it.... nothing more!
"Same as i was told that that the deal did not involve a transitional period when its been reported all over the place...they like to spin | |||
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" Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes. Well, we'll have to differ, as I know through personal experience in different industries that people have a high regard for British designed and built products. Luckily, I'm also not burdend with your pessimism of the future.
Actually, improvements are generally made by acknowledging and correcting existing and potential problems, not by sunny optimism.
I actually wrote, unambiguously, that mass manufacturing, which generates a lot of reasonably well paid jobs, is unremarkable in the UK.
I said that design was one aspect of engineering that was highly regarded.
However, I am interested to know what we produce at scale that is so much better than anyone else.
I am optimistic yes. I've been involved in worldwide technology and automotive manufacturing all my working life. I understand optimism as well as addressing and finding problems. I have enough 8 D experience than you can shake a stick at. Give it a try and see if you think it's something a blind optimistic can tackle.
It might suit your agenda better to paint people as foolish flag wavers. Personally, I'm not in that camp. I didn't say we were better than everybody else. I said our design and manufacturing is world class and well respected.
So, I'll remain pragmatic and optimistic."So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? | |||
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" Actually, no. What is highly regarded is our engineering not our manufacturing. There is a huge difference. It's pragmatic and innovative. Specialist solutions, engineering and and consultancy are off the scale. Building things at scale is meh. 50% of engineering staff in most companies is foreign born and a high proportion of those European. However, the high end services rely on the bedrock of manufacturing companies and the knowledge of transferring theory to reality. Once the manufacturing base withers, and it will if there are no large plants to maintain the supply base and train staff, the top end goes. Well, we'll have to differ, as I know through personal experience in different industries that people have a high regard for British designed and built products. Luckily, I'm also not burdend with your pessimism of the future.
Actually, improvements are generally made by acknowledging and correcting existing and potential problems, not by sunny optimism.
I actually wrote, unambiguously, that mass manufacturing, which generates a lot of reasonably well paid jobs, is unremarkable in the UK.
I said that design was one aspect of engineering that was highly regarded.
However, I am interested to know what we produce at scale that is so much better than anyone else.
I am optimistic yes. I've been involved in worldwide technology and automotive manufacturing all my working life. I understand optimism as well as addressing and finding problems. I have enough 8 D experience than you can shake a stick at. Give it a try and see if you think it's something a blind optimistic can tackle.
It might suit your agenda better to paint people as foolish flag wavers. Personally, I'm not in that camp. I didn't say we were better than everybody else. I said our design and manufacturing is world class and well respected.
So, I'll remain pragmatic and optimistic.
So, taking it point by point:
Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them?
What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it?
Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come?
Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future?"...and actually the key point with respect to the thread was that continuing production would be a non-decision for Toyota at this stage. The question is why should they make new investment in an isolated country rather than in one of the larger or lower wage economies that we want to negotiate free trade deals at some unspecified point in the future. Why would they wish to be hostages to fortune? | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future?" No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. | |||
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" Ffs you are drainingly negative. Have it your way. We are shit, everybody else is either better or have poverty based labour. Let's just jack it all in and accept defeat now. Luckily most people aren't like you. All I did was summarise and repeat back what you had already said!
No, you just like to twist what people say to match your sad little negative outlook of our abilities.
This country has and always will be advanced by people with positivity and belief. Pointless explaining any of that to you.
Your view of our abilities is that they hav been "allowed to decline for so long".
You are the negative one, not me! "Point out any positive statements you have made, or suggeations for improving things. You only criticise. It is draining and mostly done by people without the intelligence to improve things. | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point." You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia! | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point." Where is JLR building the new I-Pace and where is it building a new factory? JCB is doing extremely well. It also manufactures outside the UK. If a market expands where they have a factory, will they invest there or in the UK? The solution is to not leave the EU or at least remain in the free trade zone which makes it worth investing hundreds of millions in a new plant because the market is large enough to justify it without requiring low wages. What have you got by way of solution? | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. Where is JLR building the new I-Pace and where is it building a new factory? JCB is doing extremely well. It also manufactures outside the UK. If a market expands where they have a factory, will they invest there or in the UK? The solution is to not leave the EU or at least remain in the free trade zone which makes it worth investing hundreds of millions in a new plant because the market is large enough to justify it without requiring low wages. What have you got by way of solution?" You really don't understand my last point? I have a factory that was doing fine but now import costs go up and I have to pay a tariff to export to markets that used to be free. If this is one of several factories that I own in the world should I invest more in this place or should I invest somewhere where there are no such barriers? As I already have this UK factory I may as well try to make some money out of it so I'll try to reduce costs, the biggest of which is usually wages. Under normal circumstances workers would go somewhere else, but if the entire sector is making the same decisions then guess what? There's nowhere else to go... | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia! "They also have plants overseas, yes. They have very large, expanding factories here. What actual point are you trying to make? You just come across as a uk success sucking, negative monger. | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
They also have plants overseas, yes. They have very large, expanding factories here. What actual point are you trying to make? You just come across as a uk success sucking, negative monger."30 years ago 96 per cent of a JCB digger was made in Britain. Today it is just 36 per cent. WHY? And btw ....Jaguar is an Indian company | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
They also have plants overseas, yes. They have very large, expanding factories here. What actual point are you trying to make? You just come across as a uk success sucking, negative monger."Your positive, logical business solution then? | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
They also have plants overseas, yes. They have very large, expanding factories here. What actual point are you trying to make? You just come across as a uk success sucking, negative monger.
Your positive, logical business solution then?"Solution to what? They are successful now and growing in the uk. | |||
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" 30 years ago 96 per cent of a JCB digger was made in Britain. Today it is just 36 per cent. WHY? " Nice Daily Mail copy and paste. Is that your usual read? So, do you want the country to evolve so that % increases, or will it make you happy (unlikely anything could) if it reduces further? | |||
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" 30 years ago 96 per cent of a JCB digger was made in Britain. Today it is just 36 per cent. WHY? Nice Daily Mail copy and paste. Is that your usual read? So, do you want the country to evolve so that % increases, or will it make you happy (unlikely anything could) if it reduces further?" I thought you would like it....but its an interesting fact right that JCB have dropped production of it made in the UK by over 60% why would that be.... | |||
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" So, taking it point by point: Is it negative to look at flaws and weaknesses and try to improve or eliminate them? What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? Who will invest in manufacturing in the future? Where will the money come? Why is the most logical way for a business to keep manufacturing here not to reduce wages in the future? No, pointing out flaws AND trying to improve things isn't negative. I rarely see people on here doing both. Certainly not the ones pointed out in this thread. *Only* pointing out flaws is negative. Following it with suggeations for improvement is useful. JCB and Jaguar. Companies currently here will continue to invest. Dont know what you are getting at on last point. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
They also have plants overseas, yes. They have very large, expanding factories here. What actual point are you trying to make? You just come across as a uk success sucking, negative monger.
Your positive, logical business solution then?
Solution to what? They are successful now and growing in the uk."So when you mention a company, they are successful and growing, but when I mention the same companies, suddenly I'm a "sucess sucking negative monger"?!
Hilarious, you don't care what is said, you are about who says it, and if you agree with that person or not. It makes you look daft, like that time I said that toddlers didn't care what Michael Gove said, and you, of course, had to disagree with me, and argue that toddlers do indeed care about what Michael Gove says! | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. So just so we are clear, so far we have some jobs lost, some jobs kept, and no jobs created. Do you tell your employees that they are lucky not to have been sacked at the end of each week? " Well we recently cruised out of southampto and were told that nearly 1000 jobs had been created as a direct result of drexit and that more were coming | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. So just so we are clear, so far we have some jobs lost, some jobs kept, and no jobs created. Do you tell your employees that they are lucky not to have been sacked at the end of each week? Well we recently cruised out of southampto and were told that nearly 1000 jobs had been created as a direct result of drexit and that more were coming" Told by whom? | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. So just so we are clear, so far we have some jobs lost, some jobs kept, and no jobs created. Do you tell your employees that they are lucky not to have been sacked at the end of each week? Well we recently cruised out of southampto and were told that nearly 1000 jobs had been created as a direct result of drexit and that more were coming Told by whom? " The foreign waiter aboard the ship ? | |||
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" What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? JCB and Jaguar. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
So when you mention a company, they are successful and growing, but when I mention the same companies, suddenly I'm a "sucess sucking negative monger"?!
"Because, as you can see, I mentioned JCB and Jaguar as two successful companies, designing and manufacturing in the UK, as world class brands that we should be proud of. Your only comment about them is that they manufacture in Asia (laughing face). . Can you see any difference in attitude? | |||
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" What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? JCB and Jaguar. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
So when you mention a company, they are successful and growing, but when I mention the same companies, suddenly I'm a "sucess sucking negative monger"?!
Because, as you can see, I mentioned JCB and Jaguar as two successful companies, designing and manufacturing in the UK, as world class brands that we should be proud of.
Your only comment about them is that they manufacture in Asia (laughing face).
.
Can you see any difference in attitude?"Well Jaguar is an Indian company, that designs in the UK, and manufactures some of its cars in the UK, and some in Asia. I was laughing at you, and you were trying to suggest that they are proof of Britain's superior manufacturing capability, ignoring, forgetting, or ignorant of the fact that they also manufacture in Asia. I see you have also been selective in which part of my post you have quoted, censoring out the part where I reminded you of making yourself look foolish by caring more about the poster than the post. I thought one example was good enough, but seeing how you censored that out, let's also remember the time you said that the government should decide for people if they should be employed, or self employed, because the government is better placed to make that decision than the individual. I wonder, do you still stand by that position and that of toddlers listening to Gove? Or do you agree with me now? | |||
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" What manufacturing (not design or consultancy) is world class in the UK and what British companies have invested in it? JCB and Jaguar. You just named 2 companies that manufacture in Asia!
So when you mention a company, they are successful and growing, but when I mention the same companies, suddenly I'm a "sucess sucking negative monger"?!
Because, as you can see, I mentioned JCB and Jaguar as two successful companies, designing and manufacturing in the UK, as world class brands that we should be proud of.
Your only comment about them is that they manufacture in Asia (laughing face).
.
Can you see any difference in attitude?"JCB and Jaguar Land Rover design and manufacture in the UK. JCB is the only British owned one of those two and, as appropriate to business need, manufactures in the UK, Germany, Brazil, India and China and the USA. Have a think about that. If things don't work out with Brexit it turns out that they can manufacture from within the Eurozone. What trade deals will make you exports from the UK more sensible than one of their other plants? JLR is owned by Tata. They, not any British organisation, ploughed billions of pounds into the business to get it to where it is today. As you failed to answer my questions, the new all electric I-Pace, using the technology that all future road cars are likely to use, will be built in Austria by a supplier (Magna-Styr). They are building a new manufacturing facility in Slovakia (which will mow most likely be financed in Europe rather than the UK due to the collapse in the pound). They are also insulating themselves from exclusion from the EU. They already manufacture in China and Brazil. Once again, if Britain is out of the EU where will it be logical to export to from here? Mini, owned by BMW, is assembling the new electric Mini in Oxford. Assembling. The new technology is being developed and exported from Germany. Be as optimistic as you like for those companies. They have made sensible business decisions and will thrive. That will not help the UK economy or its workers. I hope that you do understand that this is not negativity for its own sake. This is not spun or fake news. This is real stuff. This is why you cannot unplug from such a big market as the EU. We are talking about global economies of scale. Understand this. The USA, China and now India do not want to buy our high technology goods. Trump has categorically Saud America first. He wants the UK as customers, not suppliers. China and now India don't want to buy our cars and aeroplanes anymore. They want joint venture companies set up and local manufacture and technology transfer. They get this from every car manufacturer and aircraft manufacturer. Those companies may book the profit,but the money stays there. I am pessimistic because I cannot see the logic path to this all working out well. You have still not indicated any strategy that makes me think otherwise. I will be delighted if you can. Please do that rather than criticising me for being negative. As you seem to be involved in the industry you must be able to articulate it as you must have thought about it deeply before your referendum vote. | |||
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"Clcc, _asyuk, as I've said before, I don't know what you are trying to prove. Jaguar Landrover built about half a million cars in Britain last year, and they continue to grow here. They are designed and built here and are a world class brand. Virtually every company in the world has international ownership of some sorts, and they are multinational in their operations and also build vehicles and components overseas nothing wrong with that. Most people consider them to be a success story to be proud of, that employs thousands of people here and also overseas. Your agendas seem to seek out ways of pointing out any negative you can find. Not in a way to improve things, jut a constant snidy dragging down of anything good. People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation." I think that you are missing the point. I did try to be unambiguous. Both of these companies and by extension other high value industries will do well. However, their success is independent of the UK. They do not have to grow as companies here and bring the associated jobs and prosperity. So, anything that we do to make the UK less attractive will have a direct impact. The question to you is what feature of the UK economy in the future will make it a more attractive place to invest than it is now? Could you put even some theoretical benefits behind your optimism? | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation." and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope! | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!" I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things. | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things." You were an expert in eggs a few months ago as well | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things. You were an expert in eggs a few months ago as well "I think it was JandS who were the "eggsperts" | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things." Have you found putting barriers up (both trarrif and non-tarrif) where there were previously none, to be a good business strategy? | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things. Have you found putting barriers up (both trarrif and non-tarrif) where there were previously none, to be a good business strategy? " Nobody knows the future tariff situation. The negotiations need pushing on at a better rate of progress so that can be discussed. | |||
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" You were an expert in eggs a few months ago as well "A completely different person, who I don't know, or know what they think. | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things. Have you found putting barriers up (both trarrif and non-tarrif) where there were previously none, to be a good business strategy? Nobody knows the future tariff situation. The negotiations need pushing on at a better rate of progress so that can be discussed." You ignored my question and asked another one, but anyway, I presume you are talking about the EU, and the tariffs with them, but what about the 3rd countries, like Turkey, that already have free trade deals with the UK (as a member of the single market), which end when we leave the single market? | |||
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" I think that you are missing the point. I did try to be unambiguous. Both of these companies and by extension other high value industries will do well. However, their success is independent of the UK. They do not have to grow as companies here and bring the associated jobs and prosperity. So, anything that we do to make the UK less attractive will have a direct impact. The question to you is what feature of the UK economy in the future will make it a more attractive place to invest than it is now? Could you put even some theoretical benefits behind your optimism?" JLR 'could' have moved when they were ownwd by bmw or Ford, but didn't. They could move now but haven't. They could move in the future but I dont think they will. The uk will remain at least as attractive as it is now, and investment opportunity will remain as good. I dont think tariffs will transpire with the eu. Also much of jlr export success has been to Russia, china, India, not part.of the eu. The negotiations need to push forward, so that we can even discuss trade. Current progress is dismally slow. | |||
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" Have you found putting barriers up (both trarrif and non-tarrif) where there were previously none, to be a good business strategy? Nobody knows the future tariff situation. The negotiations need pushing on at a better rate of progress so that can be discussed. You ignored my question and asked another one, but anyway, I presume you are talking about the EU, and the tariffs with them, but what about the 3rd countries, like Turkey, that already have free trade deals with the UK (as a member of the single market), which end when we leave the single market? " i didnt ask anybquestion, I just made a statement. Uk -turkey will need to decide whether to replicate it in some way, I'm not familiar with uk-turkey trade. The negotiation with the eu needs pushing on, then we can all discuss fta with them or tariffs or fta with other countries. That's topics for a dozen more threads. | |||
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" Have you found putting barriers up (both trarrif and non-tarrif) where there were previously none, to be a good business strategy? Nobody knows the future tariff situation. The negotiations need pushing on at a better rate of progress so that can be discussed. You ignored my question and asked another one, but anyway, I presume you are talking about the EU, and the tariffs with them, but what about the 3rd countries, like Turkey, that already have free trade deals with the UK (as a member of the single market), which end when we leave the single market? i didnt ask anybquestion, I just made a statement. Uk -turkey will need to decide whether to replicate it in some way, I'm not familiar with uk-turkey trade. The negotiation with the eu needs pushing on, then we can all discuss fta with them or tariffs or fta with other countries. That's topics for a dozen more threads." Right, so we are not currently negotiating FTAs, with all the countries that the EU already has FTAs with. So when we leave the EU, those FTAs end. Then there will be tarrif and non-tarrif barriers. So in all of your years of experience, has adding tariff and non-tariff barriers ever been good for your business, or for other businesses? | |||
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" So when we leave the EU, those FTAs end. Then there will be tarrif and non-tarrif barriers. So in all of your years of experience, has adding tariff and non-tariff barriers ever been good for your business, or for other businesses? " I've never experienced tariffs being added. But I don't think there will be tariffs with the eu. At the same time, I don't fear a tariff situation with them and fta with others instead. | |||
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" So when we leave the EU, those FTAs end. Then there will be tarrif and non-tarrif barriers. So in all of your years of experience, has adding tariff and non-tariff barriers ever been good for your business, or for other businesses? I've never experienced tariffs being added. But I don't think there will be tariffs with the eu. At the same time, I don't fear a tariff situation with them and fta with others instead." You keep on refusing to address all the 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with, that we wont when we leave. Do accept that that will cause problems for businesses? | |||
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" So when we leave the EU, those FTAs end. Then there will be tarrif and non-tarrif barriers. So in all of your years of experience, has adding tariff and non-tariff barriers ever been good for your business, or for other businesses? I've never experienced tariffs being added. But I don't think there will be tariffs with the eu. At the same time, I don't fear a tariff situation with them and fta with others instead. You keep on refusing to address all the 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with, that we wont when we leave. Do accept that that will cause problems for businesses? " Ive not ignored it. You gave turkey as an example and I said us and them need to decide to replicate it or not. At the moment it's acedemic, we haven't begun a trade discussion with the eu. It needs to begin asap. | |||
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" So when we leave the EU, those FTAs end. Then there will be tarrif and non-tarrif barriers. So in all of your years of experience, has adding tariff and non-tariff barriers ever been good for your business, or for other businesses? I've never experienced tariffs being added. But I don't think there will be tariffs with the eu. At the same time, I don't fear a tariff situation with them and fta with others instead. You keep on refusing to address all the 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with, that we wont when we leave. Do accept that that will cause problems for businesses? Ive not ignored it. You gave turkey as an example and I said us and them need to decide to replicate it or not. At the moment it's acedemic, we haven't begun a trade discussion with the eu. It needs to begin asap." How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things." I'm going to push you again on this then. I have tried to sketch out as clearly as I can the current decisions being made by successful British engineering firms. I am looking at world markets and the trends that already exist for locating factories and the reasons behind them. I am grounding my pessimism in the information that is actually available so I'd appreciate not being told that I have an agenda. If I had been provided with any other information to work with I wouldn't be so concerned. Here is your opportunity. Again. Please, please give me grounds for optimism. What is the mechanism that means that the UK will see increased engineering investment as a consequence of Brexit? What will make the UK more attractive than any other country to what it is now? If you are an industry expert surely you can come up with something other than wait and see? The problem that I have with being branded a remoaner or pessimist or negative is that none of the "optimists" can explain how anything will improve in any specific case. | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool." No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? " So, they are linked to the trade discussions with the eu. | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? So, they are linked to the trade discussions with the eu." No, UK - EU will be negotiating the UK-EU trade relations. The EU won't be negotiating a trade deal between the UK and Turkey, or the UK and South Korea. | |||
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" People with those attitudes rarely bring any good to any situation. and their lies the problem...... as much of an optimist you want to be, as any economist or realist will tell you, "Hope" is not a strategy! the problem is you are trying to fight the "facts" that the likes of Easy and CCLC are bringing to the conversation not with counter-fact, but with hope!I've already mentioned in another post, my whole working life has been solving engineering and business problems. That has been done through getting to the route cause of issues and solving them. I am not a blind optimist happy clapper. I am talking about being realistic , and having self belief Vs only banging on about the negative side of things. I'm going to push you again on this then. I have tried to sketch out as clearly as I can the current decisions being made by successful British engineering firms. I am looking at world markets and the trends that already exist for locating factories and the reasons behind them. I am grounding my pessimism in the information that is actually available so I'd appreciate not being told that I have an agenda. If I had been provided with any other information to work with I wouldn't be so concerned. Here is your opportunity. Again. Please, please give me grounds for optimism. What is the mechanism that means that the UK will see increased engineering investment as a consequence of Brexit? What will make the UK more attractive than any other country to what it is now? If you are an industry expert surely you can come up with something other than wait and see? The problem that I have with being branded a remoaner or pessimist or negative is that none of the "optimists" can explain how anything will improve in any specific case."  | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? So, they are linked to the trade discussions with the eu. No, UK - EU will be negotiating the UK-EU trade relations. The EU won't be negotiating a trade deal between the UK and Turkey, or the UK and South Korea. " I know we will, and I know they won't and dont want them to. They are linked in so far as we cant sign a new trade deal while inside the eu. So until we have come to a point where we are clearer on an eu deal we wont be signing a non-eu deal. Since we haven't begun an eu trade negotiation, any detail for a Turkey deal is acedemic. This is now the most boring thread ever. | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? So, they are linked to the trade discussions with the eu. No, UK - EU will be negotiating the UK-EU trade relations. The EU won't be negotiating a trade deal between the UK and Turkey, or the UK and South Korea. I know we will, and I know they won't and dont want them to. They are linked in so far as we cant sign a new trade deal while inside the eu. So until we have come to a point where we are clearer on an eu deal we wont be signing a non-eu deal. Since we haven't begun an eu trade negotiation, any detail for a Turkey deal is acedemic. This is now the most boring thread ever." But in the time between us leaving the EU, and us signing new FTAs with 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with through the EU, there will be tariff and non-tariff barriers. Do you agree with that? | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? So, they are linked to the trade discussions with the eu. No, UK - EU will be negotiating the UK-EU trade relations. The EU won't be negotiating a trade deal between the UK and Turkey, or the UK and South Korea. I know we will, and I know they won't and dont want them to. They are linked in so far as we cant sign a new trade deal while inside the eu. So until we have come to a point where we are clearer on an eu deal we wont be signing a non-eu deal. Since we haven't begun an eu trade negotiation, any detail for a Turkey deal is acedemic. This is now the most boring thread ever. But in the time between us leaving the EU, and us signing new FTAs with 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with through the EU, there will be tariff and non-tariff barriers. Do you agree with that? " No. It depends on the deal we srike with the eu. Nothing might change or some things might change or lots of things. Lets see what happens when it actually begins. Im sure there will be a trade deal thread when it does. | |||
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" How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. So we can set up new fta's while still in the eu? Cool. No, we can't, so we will lose them, at least temporarily. That can only be bad for business, do you agree? So, they are linked to the trade discussions with the eu. No, UK - EU will be negotiating the UK-EU trade relations. The EU won't be negotiating a trade deal between the UK and Turkey, or the UK and South Korea. I know we will, and I know they won't and dont want them to. They are linked in so far as we cant sign a new trade deal while inside the eu. So until we have come to a point where we are clearer on an eu deal we wont be signing a non-eu deal. Since we haven't begun an eu trade negotiation, any detail for a Turkey deal is acedemic. This is now the most boring thread ever. But in the time between us leaving the EU, and us signing new FTAs with 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with through the EU, there will be tariff and non-tariff barriers. Do you agree with that? No. It depends on the deal we srike with the eu. Nothing might change or some things might change or lots of things. Lets see what happens when it actually begins. Im sure there will be a trade deal thread when it does."  You really do not have a clue. | |||
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" It's not lost on me, but nice bit of patronising. One of the biggest fears of brexit, and pushed by remain, was international companies leaving the uk. When they are at a juncture where leaving would be more viable and they don't, it is positive news. Apart from the ones that have you mean? Job losses bad. Jobs secured good. the point being made is there a net gain/loss of zero jobs.... if you can spin that into a positive.... cool... I am guess there is a net gain of zero jobs between yesterday and today.... and there will probably be a net gain of zero jobs between today and tomorrow.... this week and next week.....net gain, zero jobs (probably) nothings going to change till 2021 anyway, new replacing older model based.... if i was being brutal i could say "nothing to see here!" Fabio, I think part of the point being made is that there was a big play during the campaign of armagedon that would immediately follow on exit vote. As time goes by, and opportunities for companies to leave pass, those predictions look more like spin." I think any charge of spinning would sit more appropriately on your shoulders, from your posts in this thread. Reasonable predictions, from verifiable sources of expertise, projected longer term decline, rather than a total fail Armageddon in your terms, immediately following the vote. | |||
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" But in the time between us leaving the EU, and us signing new FTAs with 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with through the EU, there will be tariff and non-tariff barriers. Do you agree with that? No. It depends on the deal we srike with the eu. Nothing might change or some things might change or lots of things. Lets see what happens when it actually begins. Im sure there will be a trade deal thread when it does. You really do not have a clue. "Do I know what the detail of a future fta with the eu and ancilliary countries will be? No. Sorry but no-one does. Do I know a deal different to the one we have now is possible? Yes. And it will take years of work to formulate. You can only ever say anything other than what we have now, is impossible. That's clueless, and based only on your wish for us to be in the eu or even better an indefinately expanding eu. | |||
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" But in the time between us leaving the EU, and us signing new FTAs with 3rd countries that we currently have FTAs with through the EU, there will be tariff and non-tariff barriers. Do you agree with that? No. It depends on the deal we srike with the eu. Nothing might change or some things might change or lots of things. Lets see what happens when it actually begins. Im sure there will be a trade deal thread when it does. You really do not have a clue.
Do I know what the detail of a future fta with the eu and ancilliary countries will be? No. Sorry but no-one does.
Do I know a deal different to the one we have now is possible? Yes. And it will take years of work to formulate.
You can only ever say anything other than what we have now, is impossible. That's clueless, and based only on your wish for us to be in the eu or even better an indefinately expanding eu."I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you." So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU?" NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end. | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end." You said it: "How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " They clearly are linked. We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU. The agreements could be in conflict with each others terms. So they are linked. | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end. You said it: "How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " They clearly are linked. We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU. The agreements could be in conflict with each others terms. So they are linked." you left out a bit.... We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU (WHILST YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE EU) and since the UK want this "transistion" period and have said that during this time they would abide by all EU rules...... you couldn't do it during that time as well...... | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end. You said it: "How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " They clearly are linked. We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU. The agreements could be in conflict with each others terms. So they are linked." 1) The current deals are between the 3rd country, and the EU. 2) Once we leave the EU, there will be no FTA between the UK and the 3rd country. 3) Any trade talks between the UK and the EU, will not involve a trade deal with the UK and a 3rd country. Do you agree with those 3 statements? | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end. You said it: "How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " They clearly are linked. We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU. The agreements could be in conflict with each others terms. So they are linked. you left out a bit.... We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU (WHILST YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE EU) and since the UK want this "transistion" period and have said that during this time they would abide by all EU rules...... you couldn't do it during that time as well...... " Correct. | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end. You said it: "How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " They clearly are linked. We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU. The agreements could be in conflict with each others terms. So they are linked. 1) The current deals are between the 3rd country, and the EU. 2) Once we leave the EU, there will be no FTA between the UK and the 3rd country. 3) Any trade talks between the UK and the EU, will not involve a trade deal with the UK and a 3rd country. Do you agree with those 3 statements? " Yes. We can't discuss or finalsise a deal with the EU and a 3rd party simultaneaously, without reference to the terms of the other deal. Our new deal with the eu might impose terms on deals with anyone else. So the talks are linked. Pointless Davies coming back with a deal with the eu, and in walks Boris with a deal with the usa. | |||
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A SELFISH bastard is putting Britain’s excellent Brexit plan at risk by thinking about the consequences.
Despite Theresa May criticising ‘doomsayers’, office worker Tom Logan has been recklessly having reservations about Brexit and discussing them with his girlfriend.
Logan said: “I’m not trying to mess up Brexit, I was just wondering how we’ll overcome some of the incredibly obvious problems like… well, how long have you got?
“It’s weird that a nobody like me can affect negotiations, but I’ll stop questioning things if it’s for the best. I wouldn’t want to be some fuckwit who caused a massive economic disaster.”
Government minister David Davis said: “Brexit is an absolutely brilliant, 100% rock-solid idea, but unfortunately also extremely vulnerable to any form of criticism.
“Thinking or saying negative things about Brexit creates bad psychic energy which harms negotiations at a quantum level. That’s not some smarmy bullshit excuse, that’s science.
“When idiots like Logan start whining about minor issues like damaging 44% of our exports it just helps the EU. There’s a word for people like him – Braitors. That’s definitely a word.” | |||
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" I just find it incredible that you think our arrangements with countries such as South Korea or Turkey has anything to do with our negotiations with the EU, in which those countries are not represented at all. I thought you had a better grasp of the issues at hand, but I had obviously overestimated you. So, are you now saying we can sign new FTAs while still part of the EU? NO! No one us saying that! I'm saying we currently have FTAs with non-EU countries, and when we leave the EU they will come to an abrupt end. You said it: "How is it academic? The deals with the 3rd countries aren't linked to the trade discussions with the EU. " They clearly are linked. We can't conclude a deal with a 3rd party AND the EU. The agreements could be in conflict with each others terms. So they are linked. 1) The current deals are between the 3rd country, and the EU. 2) Once we leave the EU, there will be no FTA between the UK and the 3rd country. 3) Any trade talks between the UK and the EU, will not involve a trade deal with the UK and a 3rd country. Do you agree with those 3 statements? Yes. We can't discuss or finalsise a deal with the EU and a 3rd party simultaneaously, without reference to the terms of the other deal. Our new deal with the eu might impose terms on deals with anyone else. So the talks are linked. Pointless Davies coming back with a deal with the eu, and in walks Boris with a deal with the usa." Right well it took you long enough to get this far, so Brexit will create tariff and non-tariff barriers with countries that there are currently no tariffs. That is bad for business. | |||
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" We can't discuss or finalsise a deal with the EU and a 3rd party simultaneaously, without reference to the terms of the other deal. Our new deal with the eu might impose terms on deals with anyone else. So the talks are linked. Pointless Davies coming back with a deal with the eu, and in walks Boris with a deal with the usa. Right well it took you long enough to get this far, so Brexit will create tariff and non-tariff barriers with countries that there are currently no tariffs. That is bad for business." I didnt say that. The last 10 posts have been trying to get you to understand what 'linked' means. There's no saying there will be tariff or non tariff barriers, with existing countries. The trade discussions haven't begun yet. As I said when you took the huff, nobody knows if the situation will be the same or different. That's why there is a negotiation. | |||
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" We can't discuss or finalsise a deal with the EU and a 3rd party simultaneaously, without reference to the terms of the other deal. Our new deal with the eu might impose terms on deals with anyone else. So the talks are linked. Pointless Davies coming back with a deal with the eu, and in walks Boris with a deal with the usa. Right well it took you long enough to get this far, so Brexit will create tariff and non-tariff barriers with countries that there are currently no tariffs. That is bad for business. I didnt say that. The last 10 posts have been trying to get you to understand what 'linked' means. There's no saying there will be tariff or non tariff barriers, with existing countries. The trade discussions haven't begun yet. As I said when you took the huff, nobody knows if the situation will be the same or different. That's why there is a negotiation." They are not linked. You just agreed that "Once we leave the EU, there will be no FTA between the UK and the 3rd country." If there is no FTA, then there will be tariffs. If there are tariffs, it's bad for business. Its creating a barrier, where previously there was none. | |||
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