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UK Ivory Trade

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By *ercury OP   Man
over a year ago

Grantham

Without revisiting the last Ivory Trade thread, which bizarrely finished on fishing, the UK is planning to end the legal trade in Ivory in the UK.

Michael Gove will introduce a consultation paper in the coming weeks.

A move to be welcomed I hope.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

You would like to think that despite our differences, there is at least some spot of political ground that we can all share, however I have been disappointed by this forum on many occassions.

Hopefully not many on here will put themselves in the pro ivory camp.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It should have been ended years ago, too many loopholes with claims that it comes from existing stock.

Ivory looks so much better on the animal

The same goes for the rihno horn ect but unless you get the orient to stop killing animals for so called traditional medicines and potions there will always be some git who wants it.

Just like the rich wankers who pay 100’s $’s for sharks fin and stuff like that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We focus on the large iconic animals at the cost of biodiversity.We should let them go.The panda is great example of humans focusing on a species that choose an evolutionary cul de sac.To specialized to save with no safe environment left for them.Its to late in the day to worry about elephants and rhinos and pandas.There are much greater environmental issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One thing that really.. And i mean really annoyed me was a documentary where this ignorant Chinese kid pulled out a badly carved ivory comb he bought in africa while working tbere. He's lucky i wasnt standing next to him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We focus on the large iconic animals at the cost of biodiversity.We should let them go.The panda is great example of humans focusing on a species that choose an evolutionary cul de sac.To specialized to save with no safe environment left for them.Its to late in the day to worry about elephants and rhinos and pandas.There are much greater environmental issues."

Rhino and elephant are victims of human greed, destruction of the environment to exploit resources.

Chetas have met sn evolutionary dead end, but not these animals

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We focus on the large iconic animals at the cost of biodiversity.We should let them go.The panda is great example of humans focusing on a species that choose an evolutionary cul de sac.To specialized to save with no safe environment left for them.Its to late in the day to worry about elephants and rhinos and pandas.There are much greater environmental issues."

How the f can they be too specialised? They're vegetarians eating grass and leaves ffs!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Your anger really should not be directed at the Chinese and SE Asians. The problem with them is one that can be solved with education.

Your anger should be directed against the 'great white hunter' trade in things like mounted Lions heads, Elephant leg stick stands, Zebra rugs and the like. Remember it's the Americans that deliberately shot dead the last flock of Passenger Pigeons in an afternoon for 'sport' while knowing exactly what they were doing.

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll


"We focus on the large iconic animals at the cost of biodiversity.We should let them go.The panda is great example of humans focusing on a species that choose an evolutionary cul de sac.To specialized to save with no safe environment left for them.Its to late in the day to worry about elephants and rhinos and pandas.There are much greater environmental issues."

I partly agree but it has been shown that large herbivores such as elephant have a structuring effect on the ecosystem through grazing, if you remove all these larger animals you do end up with a very different ecosystem. Too many elephants in an area is also a problem though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imagine the tree of life with its multiple branches which represent ecosytems.The fruit and the leaves at the tips represent the animals and plants. We can afford to lose some of the fruits and the leaves. We lose a branch it will never grow back and everything on that branch goes extinct.

Its a harsh choice but its pragmatic and prudent.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"We focus on the large iconic animals at the cost of biodiversity.We should let them go.The panda is great example of humans focusing on a species that choose an evolutionary cul de sac.To specialized to save with no safe environment left for them.Its to late in the day to worry about elephants and rhinos and pandas.There are much greater environmental issues."

I agree that we focus too much on the animals that 'sell' the cause better but I don't think it's an either/or choice.

Wealthier countries would do well to end all trade in ivory imo.

We're at a calamitous point where the unsexy microorganisms and thousands of species of animals and plants could become extinct - but some price the value of many things the wrong way and also care little for the future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Imagine the tree of life with its multiple branches which represent ecosytems.The fruit and the leaves at the tips represent the animals and plants. We can afford to lose some of the fruits and the leaves. We lose a branch it will never grow back and everything on that branch goes extinct.

Its a harsh choice but its pragmatic and prudent."

Unless your one of the leabes, bet you'd have a different frame of mind then!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your anger really should not be directed at the Chinese and SE Asians. The problem with them is one that can be solved with education.

*snip*

I disagree as the average Chinese rich and middle class who are the ones who buy ivory and rihno horn or the rich kids who go to restaurants to eat shark fin soup at stupid prices are not ignorant, they just do not care about where it comes from

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Imagine the tree of life with its multiple branches which represent ecosytems.The fruit and the leaves at the tips represent the animals and plants. We can afford to lose some of the fruits and the leaves. We lose a branch it will never grow back and everything on that branch goes extinct.

Its a harsh choice but its pragmatic and prudent.

Unless your one of the leabes, bet you'd have a different frame of mind then! "

They have no say.Only you have a say in what stays.

Your picking the iconic animals over the ecosytem.

We all know what a panda looks like.So we care.The Yangtze river dolphin just went extinct its ecosystem was polluted. Its prey died when the river died.It wasnt cute it isnt on the logo of WWF.

So i say fuck saving the elephant or the rhino or the blue whale. Save the ecosystems of the world and preserve biodiversity because without that diversity the big cute animals die anyway.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

We easily see apex predators and their prey. The food chain that supports them is a lot harder to see see and therefore it goes mainly unnoticed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Imagine the tree of life with its multiple branches which represent ecosytems.The fruit and the leaves at the tips represent the animals and plants. We can afford to lose some of the fruits and the leaves. We lose a branch it will never grow back and everything on that branch goes extinct.

Its a harsh choice but its pragmatic and prudent.

Unless your one of the leabes, bet you'd have a different frame of mind then!

They have no say.Only you have a say in what stays.

Your picking the iconic animals over the ecosytem.

We all know what a panda looks like.So we care.The Yangtze river dolphin just went extinct its ecosystem was polluted. Its prey died when the river died.It wasnt cute it isnt on the logo of WWF.

So i say fuck saving the elephant or the rhino or the blue whale. Save the ecosystems of the world and preserve biodiversity because without that diversity the big cute ianimals die anyway."

You assume quite a lot here, the river dolphins died out because of a direct result of human activity, not because of evolutionary reasons. so your tree of life analogy I'm sorry to say is cobblers!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Imagine the tree of life with its multiple branches which represent ecosytems.The fruit and the leaves at the tips represent the animals and plants. We can afford to lose some of the fruits and the leaves. We lose a branch it will never grow back and everything on that branch goes extinct.

Its a harsh choice but its pragmatic and prudent.

Unless your one of the leabes, bet you'd have a different frame of mind then!

They have no say.Only you have a say in what stays.

Your picking the iconic animals over the ecosytem.

We all know what a panda looks like.So we care.The Yangtze river dolphin just went extinct its ecosystem was polluted. Its prey died when the river died.It wasnt cute it isnt on the logo of WWF.

So i say fuck saving the elephant or the rhino or the blue whale. Save the ecosystems of the world and preserve biodiversity because without that diversity the big cute animals die anyway."

The reason elephant and rhinos are dying out is because some arseholes think digesting rhino horn, or tiger bones are good for them out of bullshit ideas, or ivory to show off. Shear ignorance.

You say look after the ecodystem, i agree but abandoning species cos it means mending our ways is rubbish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your also forgettong That big animals are part of the ecological system snd tbe part they play in contributing to it. Something that the humsn race stopped doing a long time ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Imagine the tree of life with its multiple branches which represent ecosytems.The fruit and the leaves at the tips represent the animals and plants. We can afford to lose some of the fruits and the leaves. We lose a branch it will never grow back and everything on that branch goes extinct.

Its a harsh choice but its pragmatic and prudent.

Unless your one of the leabes, bet you'd have a different frame of mind then!

They have no say.Only you have a say in what stays.

Your picking the iconic animals over the ecosytem.

We all know what a panda looks like.So we care.The Yangtze river dolphin just went extinct its ecosystem was polluted. Its prey died when the river died.It wasnt cute it isnt on the logo of WWF.

So i say fuck saving the elephant or the rhino or the blue whale. Save the ecosystems of the world and preserve biodiversity because without that diversity the big cute ianimals die anyway.

You assume quite a lot here, the river dolphins died out because of a direct result of human activity, not because of evolutionary reasons. so your tree of life analogy I'm sorry to say is cobblers!

"
Dear lord of course the bloody dolphins died because of human activity the river is a fucking ecosystem that got polluted .The food chain collapsed. Protecting the dolpin but not protecting its environment is ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your also forgettong That big animals are part of the ecological system snd tbe part they play in contributing to it. Something that the humsn race stopped doing a long time ago

"
We lost all the big animals roaming europe 10,000 years ago.You know the wolly mammoths wolly rhino that altered the environment.Do you miss their influence on your landscape.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your also forgettong That big animals are part of the ecological system snd tbe part they play in contributing to it. Something that the humsn race stopped doing a long time ago

We lost all the big animals roaming europe 10,000 years ago.You know the wolly mammoths wolly rhino that altered the environment.Do you miss their influence on your landscape."

10,000 years ago there wasn't the mass population of humans we have now.

There wasn't a problem. The human population remained steady until the industrial revolution.

I would suggest your tree of life analogy is a typical human response to cushion ourselves sgainst realising and accepting the damage and responsibility of what were culpable of.

If that massages your guilt complex then you won't find the true cause and therefore the right solution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also, coupled with the human population explosion is the unparalleled destructive capacity humans posess.

Someone mentioned the carrirr pigeon being eiped out for fun by humsns. How does that fit with your tree of life. Every animal including humans are under threat from... HUMANS!

btw i dug this out for you

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24044545

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also, coupled with the human population explosion is the unparalleled destructive capacity humans posess.

Someone mentioned the carrirr pigeon being eiped out for fun by humsns. How does that fit with your tree of life. Every animal including humans are under threat from... HUMANS!

btw i dug this out for you

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24044545"

The blue whale eats 40 million krill a day.I say fuck the whale save the krill because without the kril there is no whale.How do you save the kril you protect the food chain.Its the tiny microorganisms that dont make good stuffed toys that matter.Its called an holistic approach.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also, coupled with the human population explosion is the unparalleled destructive capacity humans posess.

Someone mentioned the carrirr pigeon being eiped out for fun by humsns. How does that fit with your tree of life. Every animal including humans are under threat from... HUMANS!

btw i dug this out for you

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24044545

The blue whale eats 40 million krill a day.I say fuck the whale save the krill because without the kril there is no whale.How do you save the kril you protect the food chain.Its the tiny microorganisms that dont make good stuffed toys that matter.Its called an holistic approach. "

I want to save the whole ecosystem though.

Elephant and rhino supply insects that use their dung, the insects are eaten by others creatures and so on...

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