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Why has the EU ....

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *issing in actionWoman
over a year ago

Llanelli


" Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote. "

There but for the grace of God go I, and they might want to use that degree of violence on their own people in the future without condemnation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The EU have double standards.If this was happening in Eastern Europe they'd have something to say about it pretty dam quick.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Because it threatens the union. So they quietly look on.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *issing in actionWoman
over a year ago

Llanelli

They all have their own crosses to bare. France have the Bretons, Germany have Bavaria, Italy the Sardinians, etc. They don't want their own separatists getting any fancy ideas of their own

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They all have their own crosses to bare. France have the Bretons, Germany have Bavaria, Italy the Sardinians, etc. They don't want their own separatists getting any fancy ideas of their own"

And we have Scotland...Wales and Nth Ireland

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"They all have their own crosses to bare. France have the Bretons, Germany have Bavaria, Italy the Sardinians, etc. They don't want their own separatists getting any fancy ideas of their own

And we have Scotland...Wales and Nth Ireland "

Yes, but we're leaving the EU..

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago

Spain Portugal France

Each countries contribution to the EU is based on the size of their economy

Without Catalunya, Spain will need to renegotiate the Spanish contribution to a much lower figure

Without the UK's 12 - 14% contribution, the loss of Catalunya is potentially another nail in the EU's coffin

Neither Spain or the EU can afford to lose Catalunya

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"Each countries contribution to the EU is based on the size of their economy

Without Catalunya, Spain will need to renegotiate the Spanish contribution to a much lower figure

Without the UK's 12 - 14% contribution, the loss of Catalunya is potentially another nail in the EU's coffin

Neither Spain or the EU can afford to lose Catalunya "

So you're saying that the EU will ignore such action against unarmed civilians trying to vote as long as it suits the EU agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what part of britain's anti-eu agenda does it suit for the british government to condone spain unleashing state violence against it's own people?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why hasn't May?

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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago

Spain Portugal France


"what part of britain's anti-eu agenda does it suit for the british government to condone spain unleashing state violence against it's own people?"

It's a good question

A question many people in Catalunya, the Basque region, Andorra and Gibraltar and a few free thinking people in Spain often ask?

Why is the EU and even the UK standing silent while Spain bullies all of these regions and has done for decades without question?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


" Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote. "

For the same reason they did not condemn the British government when it ordered police to attack striking miners in 1984 or any other member states legal policing of its country. It is not a matter for the EU it is an internal matter for Spain to deal with.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"Why hasn't May?"

Well she is pro Europe... it'll soon be crystal night again I'm sure.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

The EU is a nasty corrupt organisation with self interest of Germany,France etc,and we will be well rid of it

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Because the EU has no love for democracy, except when it suits it.

Were this in Eastern Europe, all the EU nations would be condeming the violence and calling for Catalunya to be a sovreign state - compare and contrast: Kosovo.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Because the EU has no love for democracy, except when it suits it.

Were this in Eastern Europe, all the EU nations would be condeming the violence and calling for Catalunya to be a sovreign state - compare and contrast: Kosovo. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The EU has never comment on such matters which have happened within a sovereign states borders. It's not allowed to interfere in domestics.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote.

For the same reason they did not condemn the British government when it ordered police to attack striking miners in 1984 or any other member states legal policing of its country. It is not a matter for the EU it is an internal matter for Spain to deal with."

Or indeed shooting Irish Republicans during the 70s 80s and 90s....but thats ok cause there terrorists or some would say

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence"

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Because the EU has no love for democracy, except when it suits it.

Were this in Eastern Europe, all the EU nations would be condeming the violence and calling for Catalunya to be a sovreign state - compare and contrast: Kosovo. "

How many people were killed in ethnic cleansing in Kosovo? Hardly comparable to what happened in Catalonia.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics. "

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!"

Ok kinky answer this.....did you agree that the UK governments should had used not only force but rubber bullets and real ones in Nth Ireland ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i don't think catalunya give a flying fuck what the king has to say about anything pmsl

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Because the EU has no love for democracy, except when it suits it.

Were this in Eastern Europe, all the EU nations would be condeming the violence and calling for Catalunya to be a sovreign state - compare and contrast: Kosovo. "

None of the former Yugoslavia states were part of the EU so neither was Kosovo. Therefore what happened happened there was no a matter of internal policy for a member state but an matter of international policy that the EU had a right to comment on which it did and more. Remember it was an EU multinational force that attempted to quell the violence when no others would act.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!"

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics! "

You are missing the point take independence to the side for one min right

The fact is he stood their on live tv tonight and said fuck all about the Spanish police attack people showing no threat as they held their hands up and were peaceful that is a breach of human rights seems the Spanish King is a spinless dickhead that couldnt care less

Reading between the lines Spain will probably will apply the 155 article using direct rule and be using force probably military one

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence"

I'll take "who doesn't understand what a constitutional monarchy is" for 200, Alex.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

I'll take "who doesn't understand what a constitutional monarchy is" for 200, Alex."

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics!

You are missing the point take independence to the side for one min right

The fact is he stood their on live tv tonight and said fuck all about the Spanish police attack people showing no threat as they held their hands up and were peaceful that is a breach of human rights seems the Spanish King is a spinless dickhead that couldnt care less

Reading between the lines Spain will probably will apply the 155 article using direct rule and be using force probably military one

"

When was the last time you saw a televised speech from Queen Elizabeth II about police brutality?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics!

You are missing the point take independence to the side for one min right

The fact is he stood their on live tv tonight and said fuck all about the Spanish police attack people showing no threat as they held their hands up and were peaceful that is a breach of human rights seems the Spanish King is a spinless dickhead that couldnt care less

Reading between the lines Spain will probably will apply the 155 article using direct rule and be using force probably military one

"

Kinky you keep on avoiding my question....was it ok for the UK armed forces to act like they did in Nth Ireland with our monarchs blessings ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

2 questions for the pro independence people.

1) During the US civil war, should the North have just let the South leave the United States, rather than fighting a war over it?

2) Do you think the US would be such a successful country and be a superpower had the North and the South split, or do you think that being a unified country made it more successful?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics!

You are missing the point take independence to the side for one min right

The fact is he stood their on live tv tonight and said fuck all about the Spanish police attack people showing no threat as they held their hands up and were peaceful that is a breach of human rights seems the Spanish King is a spinless dickhead that couldnt care less

Reading between the lines Spain will probably will apply the 155 article using direct rule and be using force probably military one

When was the last time you saw a televised speech from Queen Elizabeth II about police brutality? "

So you think if police in the UK beat the fuck out of people showing no threat to anyone you wouldnt want the Queen coming out to condem them for using police brutality?

Then what the fuck is the point on having an a kings or queen ? Thats not a head of state that being spinless unelected pricks.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics!

You are missing the point take independence to the side for one min right

The fact is he stood their on live tv tonight and said fuck all about the Spanish police attack people showing no threat as they held their hands up and were peaceful that is a breach of human rights seems the Spanish King is a spinless dickhead that couldnt care less

Reading between the lines Spain will probably will apply the 155 article using direct rule and be using force probably military one

When was the last time you saw a televised speech from Queen Elizabeth II about police brutality?

So you think if police in the UK beat the fuck out of people showing no threat to anyone you wouldnt want the Queen coming out to condem them for using police brutality?

Then what the fuck is the point on having an a kings or queen ? Thats not a head of state that being spinless unelected pricks.

"

You didn't answer the question! Have you ever seen her do it?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am dissapointed in the EU not coming out and saying or taking action

Now am seeing the King of Spain be a fucking asshole and not once condemning the Spanish police violence and without calling for political dialogue

Spain clearly is not a democracy and dont not give a flying fuck about their own citizens no fucking wonder Calalonia want independence

Yeah, those bloody constitutional monarchs not getting involved in politics.

Wow just wow

So you think the head of state for Spain attacks people who only want to vote no matter if you are yes or no to independence and says fuck all about Spanish police beating the fuck out of their own citzens

Spinless unelected prick King Felipe really is that he clearly doesnt give a fuck about Catalan people. Scum the load of them!!

Constitutional monarchs aren't meant to comment on politics!

You are missing the point take independence to the side for one min right

The fact is he stood their on live tv tonight and said fuck all about the Spanish police attack people showing no threat as they held their hands up and were peaceful that is a breach of human rights seems the Spanish King is a spinless dickhead that couldnt care less

Reading between the lines Spain will probably will apply the 155 article using direct rule and be using force probably military one

When was the last time you saw a televised speech from Queen Elizabeth II about police brutality?

So you think if police in the UK beat the fuck out of people showing no threat to anyone you wouldnt want the Queen coming out to condem them for using police brutality?

Then what the fuck is the point on having an a kings or queen ? Thats not a head of state that being spinless unelected pricks.

"

Yes they did it in Nth Ireland

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

Why are people focusing on the EUs response when our own governments havent spoken out against this?

This is just trying to complain about the EU in another baseless manner. The UN hasnt commented, neither the British not Irish governments have condemned it. But no one cares about that, just what the EU has or hasnt said.

Your outrage is as insincere as BoJo loyalty pledge.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why are people focusing on the EUs response when our own governments havent spoken out against this?

This is just trying to complain about the EU in another baseless manner. The UN hasnt commented, neither the British not Irish governments have condemned it. But no one cares about that, just what the EU has or hasnt said.

Your outrage is as insincere as BoJo loyalty pledge."

i did ask the question as it happens ... i didn't expect an answer though

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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago

Spain Portugal France


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?"

Were the Dave Clark Five better when they were the Dave Clark Six or should they have reverted to the Dave Clark Four when the going was good?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"Why are people focusing on the EUs response when our own governments havent spoken out against this?

This is just trying to complain about the EU in another baseless manner. The UN hasnt commented, neither the British not Irish governments have condemned it. But no one cares about that, just what the EU has or hasnt said.

Your outrage is as insincere as BoJo loyalty pledge."
this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?

Were the Dave Clark Five better when they were the Dave Clark Six or should they have reverted to the Dave Clark Four when the going was good? "

i preferred him when he had his DJ residency in belfast arts centre in the mid 90's

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago

Spain Portugal France


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?

Were the Dave Clark Five better when they were the Dave Clark Six or should they have reverted to the Dave Clark Four when the going was good?

i preferred him when he had his DJ residency in belfast arts centre in the mid 90's "

Good answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he was pretty good in the love parade in berlin in 1996 too mind

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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago

Spain Portugal France


"Each countries contribution to the EU is based on the size of their economy

Without Catalunya, Spain will need to renegotiate the Spanish contribution to a much lower figure

Without the UK's 12 - 14% contribution, the loss of Catalunya is potentially another nail in the EU's coffin

Neither Spain or the EU can afford to lose Catalunya

So you're saying that the EU will ignore such action against unarmed civilians trying to vote as long as it suits the EU agenda. "

Yes - Sadly they have already proved that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lets face it .... none of the countries in europe who have regions that belong to the european free alliance will exactly be wanting to encourage catalunya independence

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

With the strike that happened in Catalonia on Tuesday and people taking to the streets peaceful btw to protest against the attack on innocent people

One guy held a sign up saying this ''"I don't want independence but I cannot stay at home while they beat my people"

Now let that sink in!!!

Take independence away for right now the bigger picture right now is 900+ people injured and the Spanish government nor the Spanish king seems to give a damn about those who were injured that showed no threat to anyone and held their hands in the air

I will give that guy credit he might not want independence for Catalonia but at least he knows right from wrong and is willing to stand up and say not in his name while others dont seem to care

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Railing against the Spanish monarch for not doing what you want them to is a spectacular waste of time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from the united kingdom?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?"
.

I've corrected that for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from the united kingdom?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from england

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?.

I've corrected that for you "

you haven't corrected it ... you just altered it ... if you had corrected it , it would be correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from the united kingdom?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from united kingdom

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?.

I've corrected that for you

you haven't corrected it ... you just altered it ... if you had corrected it , it would be correct "
.

Oops your right, missed that bit.

Now it's correcto

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"3) do you think ireland would be such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from the united kingdom?

4) do you think that iceland would've been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from denmark

5) do you think india would have been such a successful place if they hadn't sought independence from united kingdom

6) are all of the previous 5 questions completely pointless?.

I've corrected that for you

you haven't corrected it ... you just altered it ... if you had corrected it , it would be correct .

Oops your right, missed that bit.

Now it's correcto"

ooops ... you altered it again ... you should've left it how it was which was in fact correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see, so it's England bad, united kingdom good?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One MEP has condemned the response by the Madrid government...

Nigel Farage

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One MEP has condemned the response by the Madrid government...

Nigel Farage"

Good old nige .Id prefer a response from someone with authority though .

The Belgium PM did condemn the violence but Belgium doesn't carry much weight.The brexit negotiator guy verstofhen condemned it.But who cares what he thinks.

Merkel should say something as shes the most powerful leader in the western world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Merkel should say something as shes the most powerful leader in the western world. "

she'll say fuck all coz she's worried that it will embolden east frisians, north frisians, sorbs, lusatians, danes and bavarians

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Merkel should say something as shes the most powerful leader in the western world.

she'll say fuck all coz she's worried that it will embolden east frisians, north frisians, sorbs, lusatians, danes and bavarians"

I thought they were dairy cows?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Merkel should say something as shes the most powerful leader in the western world. "

Really? She is scratching around trying to get a coalition together!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Merkel should say something as shes the most powerful leader in the western world.

she'll say fuck all coz she's worried that it will embolden east frisians, north frisians, sorbs, lusatians, danes and bavarians

I thought they were dairy cows? "

now that just sums up your limited knowledge of the world really

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Merkel should say something as shes the most powerful leader in the western world.

she'll say fuck all coz she's worried that it will embolden east frisians, north frisians, sorbs, lusatians, danes and bavarians

I thought they were dairy cows?

now that just sums up your limited knowledge of the world really"

Well someone has had a sense of humour bypass haven't they!

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"I see, so it's England bad, united kingdom good?.

"

Only white England.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I see, so it's England bad, united kingdom good?.

Only white England."

and mostly wiltshire at that

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin


"I see, so it's England bad, united kingdom good?.

Only white England."

You never asked the question about why the EUs response was the only one you cared about and not your own government or the UN or anyone else who stayed silent?

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"I see, so it's England bad, united kingdom good?.

Only white England.

You never asked the question about why the EUs response was the only one you cared about and not your own government or the UN or anyone else who stayed silent?"

No. It wouldn't have been such a slick question.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"2 questions for the pro independence people.

1) During the US civil war, should the North have just let the South leave the United States, rather than fighting a war over it?

2) Do you think the US would be such a successful country and be a superpower had the North and the South split, or do you think that being a unified country made it more successful? "

You're missing the point. It isn't a case of whether independance would be good or not. It is the suppression of the ability to vote.

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"2 questions for the pro independence people.

1) During the US civil war, should the North have just let the South leave the United States, rather than fighting a war over it?

2) Do you think the US would be such a successful country and be a superpower had the North and the South split, or do you think that being a unified country made it more successful?

You're missing the point. It isn't a case of whether independance would be good or not. It is the suppression of the ability to vote.

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable."

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then? "

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have."

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....? "

It was wrong. Why was that wrong but doing it in Catalonia isn't?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

It was wrong. Why was that wrong but doing it in Catalonia isn't?"

I think you just answered your own question

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

It was wrong. Why was that wrong but doing it in Catalonia isn't?

I think you just answered your own question "

both are wrong. That's what I said.

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I think both sides have to bear responsibility for the Madrid/Catalan situation.

Yes, people should have the right to have their say and protest peacefully.

Madrid acted brutally against its own people, an absolute disgrace and totally unforgivable . . . . BUT . . .The

Catalan organisers knew from the very outset of their referendum that they were breaking the law of the land.

They backed the government into a corner,

the referendum organisers knew violence would result from any voting. . . Those organisers of the referendum must take a proportion of responsibility for injuries sustained to the Catalan voters.

They were well warned what action the government would take.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


" Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote. "

The EU has made no secret of the fact that they don't really like democracy. I feel the police brutality inflicted upon the Catalan people who just wanted a democratic vote has been totally counter productive and has actually made independence for Catalonia inevitable now, it's not a matter of if but when. The violence committed by the Spanish state and the police who enforced it will have only made the Catalan resolve to leave and become independent stronger. I saw some Catalonians carrying some anti EU banners in Barcelona on sky news yesterday which read "EU your silence kills us!" The silence from the EU heads like Juncker and Tusk on the police brutality at the weekend in Catalonia is utterly shameful but not surprising. Catalonia will not only leave Spain but when they claim independence as a nation state they will also automatically leave the corrupt club in Brussels and this will be yet another nail in the coffin of the failing EU.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

The EU has made no secret of the fact that they don't really like democracy. "

Can you back that up with any official quotes or statements?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote.

The EU has made no secret of the fact that they don't really like democracy. I feel the police brutality inflicted upon the Catalan people who just wanted a democratic vote has been totally counter productive and has actually made independence for Catalonia inevitable now, it's not a matter of if but when. The violence committed by the Spanish state and the police who enforced it will have only made the Catalan resolve to leave and become independent stronger. I saw some Catalonians carrying some anti EU banners in Barcelona on sky news yesterday which read "EU your silence kills us!" The silence from the EU heads like Juncker and Tusk on the police brutality at the weekend in Catalonia is utterly shameful but not surprising. Catalonia will not only leave Spain but when they claim independence as a nation state they will also automatically leave the corrupt club in Brussels and this will be yet another nail in the coffin of the failing EU. "

Wrong YET AGAIN just something to get your teeth into with YOUR hatred of the EU...

The EU executive urged Spain to talk to Catalan separatists on Monday, condemning violence but also calling for unity, a day after Spanish police beat people trying to vote in an independence referendum in Catalonia.

Edging into a minefield it has tried hard to avoid, despite a danger for stability in Spain and the euro zone, the European Commission issued a cautiously balanced statement. It voiced trust in Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's ability to manage this "internal matter", but also called for dialogue and reminded Madrid of a need to respect citizens' basic rights.

"We call on all relevant players to now move very swiftly from confrontation to dialogue. Violence can never be an instrument in politics," the Commission said in a statement read out by chief spokesman Margaritis Schinas, just before Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont asked for EU mediation

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/eu-spain-catalonia-referendum-1.4316585

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then? "

That is exactly what it was.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

It was wrong. Why was that wrong but doing it in Catalonia isn't?

I think you just answered your own question

both are wrong. That's what I said."

So all the leaders in the UK from the 70s...80s and 90s have been wrong

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have."

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

That is exactly what it was."

Yet most people think that had the right outcome, and was the right thing to do, don't they?

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

That is exactly what it was.

Yet most people think that had the right outcome, and was the right thing to do, don't they? "

Most Americans.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

That is exactly what it was.

Yet most people think that had the right outcome, and was the right thing to do, don't they?

Most Americans. "

300 years later

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

That is exactly what it was.

Yet most people think that had the right outcome, and was the right thing to do, don't they?

Most Americans. "

Your response implies that people from other countries think the opposite, and perhaps even you yourself believe it would have been better for the South to leave the union. Is that what you meant?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Yet most people think that had the right outcome, and was the right thing to do, don't they? "

Actions effects are absolutes.

Actions historical outcomes are subjective.

Personally I am an ideological supporter of integration and an opponent of division. However, I realise that at times one has to reverse ones course and suffer the losses caused by division to eventually fully integrate and progress.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?"

You know full well you are straw manning my post on the other thread. The US civil war is just your usual sidetracking. I dont care about it, not refusing to answer.

I don't think Catalonia should have independence.

I think they should be able to democratically decide themselves.

You don't think they should have independence, and therefore they shouldn't be able to decide themselves.

Therein lies the difference.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin


"

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

It was wrong. Why was that wrong but doing it in Catalonia isn't?

I think you just answered your own question

both are wrong. That's what I said.

So all the leaders in the UK from the 70s...80s and 90s have been wrong "

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....? "

You keep bringing this up. What period or incident(s) are you talking about?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The Spanish Army will be on the streets, supporting the civil guard, by this weekend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Micheal portfolio might be right when he said it may be ironic that the UK left the EU about immigration just before the EU clamped down on immigration

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Spanish Army will be on the streets, supporting the civil guard, by this weekend.

"
Looks like we have an occupying force entering Catalonia and that only leads to a uprising and a resisting force.

Terrible move from spain.

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?"
both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"The Spanish Army will be on the streets, supporting the civil guard, by this weekend.

Looks like we have an occupying force entering Catalonia and that only leads to a uprising and a resisting force.

Terrible move from spain."

true but i don't think they will this time because the optics are going to look awful....

if the catalan parliament does try and declare independence then argeument i would make is that only 42% of the entire population voted on an illegal referedum because you changed to rules to force it thru...

that is an arguement you can win..... because no country are going to ratify or acknowledge it...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The Catalans need to take the moral high ground here, and insist on no confrontation in exchange for meaningful talks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Catalans need to take the moral high ground here, and insist on no confrontation in exchange for meaningful talks."
Spain has refused dialogue and by sending in the army they are inviting violence.They'll create martyrs.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol."

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?

You know full well you are straw manning my post on the other thread. The US civil war is just your usual sidetracking. I dont care about it, not refusing to answer.

I don't think Catalonia should have independence.

I think they should be able to democratically decide themselves.

You don't think they should have independence, and therefore they shouldn't be able to decide themselves.

Therein lies the difference."

So answer the 2 questions posed then, if you are not refusing to answer.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"The Spanish Army will be on the streets, supporting the civil guard, by this weekend.

Looks like we have an occupying force entering Catalonia and that only leads to a uprising and a resisting force.

Terrible move from spain."

agreed..

the lack of acknowledgement of the violence used last week is disgusting and this move will only serve to add fuel to what is a bit of a mess..

being very badly handled by the Spanish government..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

You keep bringing this up. What period or incident(s) are you talking about?"

Well the very first one that i can remember is Sunday bloody Sunday...then Gibraltar....but there have been many more incidents....THE UK government sent in the troops to quell these protests from the republicans

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

You know full well you are straw manning my post on the other thread. The US civil war is just your usual sidetracking. I dont care about it, not refusing to answer.

I don't think Catalonia should have independence.

I think they should be able to democratically decide themselves.

You don't think they should have independence, and therefore they shouldn't be able to decide themselves.

Therein lies the difference.

So answer the 2 questions posed then, if you are not refusing to answer."

Start a thread about the american civil war if you eant to discuss 150 year old events. I don't accept your diversion.

This thread is about Europeans now,being forcible prevented from engaging in a democratic process.

The long and short of it is this. You don't want them to be independent, so youbtry to shift the discussion away from the real issue.

You care more about your views than democracy. That's very dangerous, luckily I doubt you will ever be in a position of political power.

Everybody else here sees the quashing of democracy as a sad thing.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

You keep bringing this up. What period or incident(s) are you talking about?

Well the very first one that i can remember is Sunday bloody Sunday...then Gibraltar....but there have been many more incidents....THE UK government sent in the troops to quell these protests from the republicans "

Thanks for clarifying that.

It is a shame you failed to mention some of the atrocities committed by the IRA at the same time.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

You know full well you are straw manning my post on the other thread. The US civil war is just your usual sidetracking. I dont care about it, not refusing to answer.

I don't think Catalonia should have independence.

I think they should be able to democratically decide themselves.

You don't think they should have independence, and therefore they shouldn't be able to decide themselves.

Therein lies the difference.

So answer the 2 questions posed then, if you are not refusing to answer.

Start a thread about the american civil war if you eant to discuss 150 year old events. I don't accept your diversion.

This thread is about Europeans now,being forcible prevented from engaging in a democratic process.

The long and short of it is this. You don't want them to be independent, so youbtry to shift the discussion away from the real issue.

You care more about your views than democracy. That's very dangerous, luckily I doubt you will ever be in a position of political power.

Everybody else here sees the quashing of democracy as a sad thing."

So you are refusing to answer the question, yet again!

There are quite a few posters on the various threads who have said that the referendum was illegal. You might disagree with that, and think that laws shouldn't apply, courts should be ignored, constitutions ripped up, however there are others who believe in the rule of law, think it applies equally to everyone and shouldn't be abandoned.

A national government was democratically elected. A constitution was written. You think that it's democracy to ignore the laws passed by that government, and to ignore the constitution. It's not, that is not democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

You keep bringing this up. What period or incident(s) are you talking about?

Well the very first one that i can remember is Sunday bloody Sunday...then Gibraltar....but there have been many more incidents....THE UK government sent in the troops to quell these protests from the republicans

Thanks for clarifying that.

It is a shame you failed to mention some of the atrocities committed by the IRA at the same time."

I was on about our interference...and don't you be forgetting Unionists atrocities as well....but essentially the troops were ordered in to quell the demos....whats the difference ? and are you saying its ok for the UK to do it to stop the break up ok the UK but not Spain...and for the record i condemn all violence on all sides

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

You know full well you are straw manning my post on the other thread. The US civil war is just your usual sidetracking. I dont care about it, not refusing to answer.

I don't think Catalonia should have independence.

I think they should be able to democratically decide themselves.

You don't think they should have independence, and therefore they shouldn't be able to decide themselves.

Therein lies the difference.

So answer the 2 questions posed then, if you are not refusing to answer.

Start a thread about the american civil war if you eant to discuss 150 year old events. I don't accept your diversion.

This thread is about Europeans now,being forcible prevented from engaging in a democratic process.

The long and short of it is this. You don't want them to be independent, so youbtry to shift the discussion away from the real issue.

You care more about your views than democracy. That's very dangerous, luckily I doubt you will ever be in a position of political power.

Everybody else here sees the quashing of democracy as a sad thing.

So you are refusing to answer the question, yet again!

There are quite a few posters on the various threads who have said that the referendum was illegal. You might disagree with that, and think that laws shouldn't apply, courts should be ignored, constitutions ripped up, however there are others who believe in the rule of law, think it applies equally to everyone and shouldn't be abandoned.

A national government was democratically elected. A constitution was written. You think that it's democracy to ignore the laws passed by that government, and to ignore the constitution. It's not, that is not democracy. "

Yes it is. You just don't like the potential outcome, therefore you oppose it. I don't mind what they decide, simply that they are allowed to do so.

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? "
it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"What about Irish independence then when the troops were over there beating up protesters and shooting them....?

You keep bringing this up. What period or incident(s) are you talking about?

Well the very first one that i can remember is Sunday bloody Sunday...then Gibraltar....but there have been many more incidents....THE UK government sent in the troops to quell these protests from the republicans

Thanks for clarifying that.

It is a shame you failed to mention some of the atrocities committed by the IRA at the same time."

The IRA were not a state government. The topic being discussed is with regards to the state having a monopoly on the use of force and the legitimacy, or otherwise to bring that force to bear.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?"

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

"
again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To gain freedom you need rebellion.That's standard through out history.It works.

Some in here dont like the Catalans rebellious attitude the same goes for the recent Kurdish referendum.Both are peaceful people exercising the right to freedom in a peacful way.Its those who are against these people who will be recorded in history as violent and aggressive and on the wrong side of decency and humanity.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests."

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? "

Where did you condemn it?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? "

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well. "

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well. "

Bob to be respectful here MLK fought for human rights of the blacks..... and not independence....there's a lot i agree with you on here but this isnt one....his aim was totally different to what the Catalonians are seeking

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

Where did you condemn it?"

On the last thread

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? "
Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote? "

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote. "

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

"

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes).

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). "
Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense."

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. "
Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? "
again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting."

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally?

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about ."

The referendum is against the law.

 (closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately
 

By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. "
of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha ."

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally? "
Ah so you think blacks could vote legally in southern states if so why did they pass a law on 1965 called the voteing rights act...I see which side of history your on...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally? Ah so you think blacks could vote legally in southern states if so why did they pass a law on 1965 called the voteing rights act...I see which side of history your on..."

You have said yourself that black people were registered to vote. If they were registered to vote, then they were legally allowed to vote.

What side of history am I on Bob? I'm just calling you out on what YOU have said. You said that people voted illegally, I'm asking you when, you haven't yet answered.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples. "
my position is the referendum was illigal but in no way does that mean I support the Spanish goverment and the violence they used as it could of been handled far easier so no I don't support them.why do you support them? Is it simply because the referendum was illegal therefore you support the use of violence on peacefull people.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples. my position is the referendum was illigal but in no way does that mean I support the Spanish goverment and the violence they used as it could of been handled far easier so no I don't support them.why do you support them? Is it simply because the referendum was illegal therefore you support the use of violence on peacefull people."

Did you support the miners or the IRA or the Ulster Unionists at the time or are you cherry picking as well...as our government of the time sent in the police and the army to quell them

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples. my position is the referendum was illigal but in no way does that mean I support the Spanish goverment and the violence they used as it could of been handled far easier so no I don't support them.why do you support them? Is it simply because the referendum was illegal therefore you support the use of violence on peacefull people.

Did you support the miners or the IRA or the Ulster Unionists at the time or are you cherry picking as well...as our government of the time sent in the police and the army to quell them "
what the hell does that have to do with peacefull people getting there heads caved in for being completely peacefull and wanting to vote on something that was irrelevent anyway.and to answear you question I don't support any goverment or any violent protests.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples. my position is the referendum was illigal but in no way does that mean I support the Spanish goverment and the violence they used as it could of been handled far easier so no I don't support them.why do you support them? Is it simply because the referendum was illegal therefore you support the use of violence on peacefull people.

Did you support the miners or the IRA or the Ulster Unionists at the time or are you cherry picking as well...as our government of the time sent in the police and the army to quell them what the hell does that have to do with peacefull people getting there heads caved in for being completely peacefull and wanting to vote on something that was irrelevent anyway.and to answear you question I don't support any goverment or any violent protests."

Because they start off peaceful thats why

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The highest Spanish Court has blocked a meeting of the Catalan Parliament.

Should anyone turn up, then they would be in contempt of court and would face arrest.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *imetoexplore69Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeen


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples. my position is the referendum was illigal but in no way does that mean I support the Spanish goverment and the violence they used as it could of been handled far easier so no I don't support them.why do you support them? Is it simply because the referendum was illegal therefore you support the use of violence on peacefull people.

Did you support the miners or the IRA or the Ulster Unionists at the time or are you cherry picking as well...as our government of the time sent in the police and the army to quell them what the hell does that have to do with peacefull people getting there heads caved in for being completely peacefull and wanting to vote on something that was irrelevent anyway.and to answear you question I don't support any goverment or any violent protests.

Because they start off peaceful thats why "
let me get this straight.you think it's fine to use violence because violence may happen?so all the peacefull protests that happen in London etc should be met with violence because just incase lol.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence? Jesus I was simply showing you why your nonsense about the civil war could be applied to anything.If that made you think wtf where did that come from and how is that even relevent then now you know how everybody else feels with your poor attempts at a shitty politicians response that you seem to rely on.il ask you yet again and let's not divert from anything else or any random assumptions.are you or are you not on the side of the Spanish goverment on this matter and why.look how long this msg has gone on for and you can't answear that simple question.

No, because the civil war was about independence, and MLK wasn't.

Now you are changing it from do I support violence (no) to, do I support the Spanish government (yes). Jesus Christ the civil war was olso about slavery and racism like MLK but can't you see why I said that in the first place it was supposed to show how stupid your reply about the civil war was and how irrelevant it is to the thread topic but can we please stop going on about it now haha.finally I got half an answear from you but can you say why you support the Spanish goverment on this issue as to say you don't support violence but you support what happend dosent make sense.

MLK didn't campaign to have one part of a country to become independent. The Civil War was about that, so was the vote in Catalonia. Is that really too complicated for you to understand?

You seem to really be struggling with the concept that people think that the laws imposed by democratically elected leaders should be followed. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? Do you follow laws? again you are talking nonsense and can't answear a simple question.why do u support the Spanish goverment on what happend.that's what this whole thread is about .

The referendum is against the law. of course it was. so all that had to be done was ignore it not beat the shit out of them fs.If that happend ouside the eu like in Russia the western world would be going nuts and demanding sanctions.If you think the referendum was against the law (which it was ) then fine but by saying you support the Spanish goverment on this matter then you are clearly supporting the violence on the people because that is simply what happend fact. Thanks for the answear finally after hours of irrelevance.and please don't msg back "but the civil war " haha .

Right, so if you agree that it's illegal, then you support the Spanish government too then!

My position has been crystal clear all along, you don't even understand your own position so I'm not surprised you struggle with other peoples. my position is the referendum was illigal but in no way does that mean I support the Spanish goverment and the violence they used as it could of been handled far easier so no I don't support them.why do you support them? Is it simply because the referendum was illegal therefore you support the use of violence on peacefull people.

Did you support the miners or the IRA or the Ulster Unionists at the time or are you cherry picking as well...as our government of the time sent in the police and the army to quell them what the hell does that have to do with peacefull people getting there heads caved in for being completely peacefull and wanting to vote on something that was irrelevent anyway.and to answear you question I don't support any goverment or any violent protests.

Because they start off peaceful thats why let me get this straight.you think it's fine to use violence because violence may happen?so all the peacefull protests that happen in London etc should be met with violence because just incase lol."

I dont think any violence is fine....i honestly think you are seriously missing the point on all this...it was an illegal vote....our country would and have acted the very same way as the Spanish government have....and they would do it again.....but getting back to the OP's original post...the EU have condemn it

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally? Ah so you think blacks could vote legally in southern states if so why did they pass a law on 1965 called the voteing rights act...I see which side of history your on...

You have said yourself that black people were registered to vote. If they were registered to vote, then they were legally allowed to vote.

What side of history am I on Bob? I'm just calling you out on what YOU have said. You said that people voted illegally, I'm asking you when, you haven't yet answered. "
I'm grateful people like you arent in power .

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Thread nicely diverted.

Peaceful democratic vote stopped by authoritarian central govt.

Those who don't like the idea of the potential outcome quickly divert the discussion onto american civil war and black civil rights.

CLCC why not just say that you oppose independance and are therefore glad the referendum was crushed?

You can always fall back on calling them old / stupid / racist if it goes the wrong way.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally? Ah so you think blacks could vote legally in southern states if so why did they pass a law on 1965 called the voteing rights act...I see which side of history your on...

You have said yourself that black people were registered to vote. If they were registered to vote, then they were legally allowed to vote.

What side of history am I on Bob? I'm just calling you out on what YOU have said. You said that people voted illegally, I'm asking you when, you haven't yet answered. I'm grateful people like you arent in power . "

Why? Bob, you said it was illegal for black people to vote, that simply isn’t the case. Prove me wrong, tell me which federal or state law said that black people couldn’t vote.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

There is a difference between "an illegal vote" and "voting illegally"

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why has the EU....

The UK & EU have proposed to share/split their WTO agricultural imports. What I mean is at the moment its 100% but they proposed to split it so that the UK takes it's current share and the EU reduces their share by that amount - so no one gains and the WTO quota is the same - fair? NO several WTO members opposed this amicable solution. USA, CANADA, NEW ZEALAND, BRASIL, THAILAND & ARGENTINA - well the last one is expected. Two commonwealth nations and so much for the U.S. and our special relationship?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"There is a difference between "an illegal vote" and "voting illegally"

"

There is a difference between barriers to voter registration and voting illegally.

There is a difference between voter intimidation and voting illegally.

There is a difference between gerrymandering and voting illegally.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

Essentially if you take on the Reich, you're in for a kicking.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally? Ah so you think blacks could vote legally in southern states if so why did they pass a law on 1965 called the voteing rights act...I see which side of history your on...

You have said yourself that black people were registered to vote. If they were registered to vote, then they were legally allowed to vote.

What side of history am I on Bob? I'm just calling you out on what YOU have said. You said that people voted illegally, I'm asking you when, you haven't yet answered. I'm grateful people like you arent in power .

Why? Bob, you said it was illegal for black people to vote, that simply isn’t the case. Prove me wrong, tell me which federal or state law said that black people couldn’t vote.

"

Yes you're correct in 1870 it was legal for African Americans to vote.Almost 95 years later they needed a new bill to make it really really legal to vote because for some strange reason they weren't voting.

So just incase anyone was confused about what happened in 1870 and the definition of the word legal.They passed another bill.Because for some reason their was confusion over this word in the white community.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Essentially if you take on the Reich, you're in for a kicking."
.....Or a hard whack in the face or head with a batton.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Unfortunately in democracy sometimes people vote for things you disagree with. It doesn't mean looking for reasons to stop the vote is acceptable.

Would you describe the US civil war as a suppression of independence then?

I don't care about the US civil war. Nice diversion though.

This is Europe now. You, the EU and Madrid don't like the potential outcome. Therefore a blind eye to the stomping of people hoping for democracy is ok?

Strange set of morals you have.

Where have I turned a blind eye exactly? You were the one saying that I should feel shame for not wanting to see more victims of a civil war, remember?

It's interesting that you think Catalonia should have independence, however refuse to answer the same question about the US civil war. Does it make you feel uncomfortable to support the independence of slave keeping states?both sides were racist and both sides kept slaves and didint give a fuck about them.If you think that the civil was was about people in power being nice and wanting to free slaves then you need to read real history not just the American version lol.don't know what relivence this has to people wanting to vote peacefully and getting there head kicked in for it anyway lol.

Because the south wanted independence from the Union (the North) like Catalonia wants independence from Spain. Can you really not see the relevance? it was in the mid 18 hundreds and was under completely diferent circumstances and has absolutely no relevance to people wanting to vote and getting attacked by there goverment for doing so peacefully in 2017 .instead of diverting to the civil war nonsense why don't you just say what you think on the matter of this thread.why do you support what happend?

I think its relevant, you are happy to say its wrong for the Spanish police to enforce the law, but wont say the Union was wrong to fight a bloody civil war to stop the independence of the southern states. Both are state violence to stop independence.

again it was the mid 1800s and was a war fs lol. so beating the shit out of PEACEFULL people is right? Let's apply your logic to any sort of peacefull protest then because really that's what this was.i suppose you would be fine with what happend to Martin Luther king and his followers during his peacefull protests and apply that to any peacefull protest.all Spain has to do to enforce the law was ignore the result as it wasent legal anyway not beat the shit out what was a peacefull protest in the form of a vote.instead of diverting answers with irrelevent assumptions why can't you just answear a simple question that is relevant to the thread.why do you support violence as a response to peacefull voting or protests.

You complain about irrelevant assumptions, then start talking about MLK and telling me what I think about him!

MLK has nothing to do with independence.

Please can you quote me where I have supported violence?

MLK has everything to do with freedom and rebellion and how many laws did he break.?How many beatings did his people take trying to vote illegally.

You're cherry picking the ground you wish to fight your argument on.We all like to pull the argument off shaky ground.

It wont end well.

When did MLK's people try to illegally vote?

You need to read up.The African American constantly attempted to register to vote and returning WWII veterans were beaten when they lined up to vote.

The selma march was about voting rights.They marched for their right to vote and got beaten.

Like i said MLK was all about the right to vote.

Registering to vote is not illegal. You described it as such. Really why only 1 % black people registered to vote at the time.why when attempting to register they were beaten and if the made it to clerk were rarely approved.The march was even called the right to vote march...Its pretty obvious the greatest right was the right to vote to say otherwise is wilfully ignorant.

Maybe you unaware of the difference between the civil rights act of 64 in the voteing rights act of 65.The bill outlawed poll taxes, literacy tests, and other practices that had effectively prevented southern blacks from voting.

You said they voted illegally, I'm asking you, when did they vote illegally? Ah so you think blacks could vote legally in southern states if so why did they pass a law on 1965 called the voteing rights act...I see which side of history your on...

You have said yourself that black people were registered to vote. If they were registered to vote, then they were legally allowed to vote.

What side of history am I on Bob? I'm just calling you out on what YOU have said. You said that people voted illegally, I'm asking you when, you haven't yet answered. I'm grateful people like you arent in power .

Why? Bob, you said it was illegal for black people to vote, that simply isn’t the case. Prove me wrong, tell me which federal or state law said that black people couldn’t vote.

Yes you're correct in 1870 it was legal for African Americans to vote.Almost 95 years later they needed a new bill to make it really really legal to vote because for some strange reason they weren't voting.

So just incase anyone was confused about what happened in 1870 and the definition of the word legal.They passed another bill.Because for some reason their was confusion over this word in the white community.

"

So you no longer stand by your earlier statement that MLK and his supporters were illegally voting? You've decided that perhaps you were wrong to label them criminals?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Was MLK in Catalonia, or have we been successfully veered off topic?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

CLCC it's interesting to see your take on this topic. From your experience I'd thought you would side with the Catalonians. But your views on Brexit also tells me you believe in a united world. So independence is going backwards on your believe.

What's your thought on identity? Do you think they want to identify themselves as a nation or country?

What about oppressive regimes? Would you side with the oppressed to be independent? Since it is usually the oppressed who fight and end up in excile, tortured etc. Should they accept it?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

So Catalonia is moving towards a UDI. In my lifetime there have been 3 'successful' UDIs to my knowledge, Rhodesia, the fracturing of Yugoslavia and South Sudan, I would not describe any of their outcomes as beneficial for the populations involved. However I would point out that all degenerated into civil war with massive population displacement and loss of life.

Guess the Spanish are gearing up to have their own bloodbath. I really hope the Catalan regional government have a plan that will stop history repeating yet again.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

What's the purpose or "independence" if nobody is being mean to you and you have the same rights as everyone else?

A 90% yes vote from 2 out if 7 million voters is not really definitive.

...and no that doesn't justify beating people up. Far better to just inform people that the vote is unconstitutional and ask them to think about why their regional government is spending money on it rather than medicine or education

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"CLCC it's interesting to see your take on this topic. From your experience I'd thought you would side with the Catalonians. But your views on Brexit also tells me you believe in a united world. So independence is going backwards on your believe.

What's your thought on identity? Do you think they want to identify themselves as a nation or country?

What about oppressive regimes? Would you side with the oppressed to be independent? Since it is usually the oppressed who fight and end up in excile, tortured etc. Should they accept it?"

Look at what has been achieved, violence, and now reports of businesses relocating to other parts of Spain. Tourism is sure to take a hit to. It's not just the people who want independence that are being hurt, but also people on the otherside of the debate who want Catalonia to remain part of Spain. People on both sides will lose jobs, houses, savings etc. Like I have said on either this thread or the other, I know and have worked with and supported people who have lost a lot more than this.

Independence is great for the politicians, they get to feel like great heroes, but it does very little for everyone else. The idea that everyone will be happy in a newly independent state is a myth. Everyone is every country is unhappy with their government, that doesn't change from the smallest country to the biggest country.

What would someone be able to do in an independent Catalonia that they cannot do today? Nothing, it will all be the same, and what will all the pain have been for? Nothing.

Civilisation has gone from tribes, to city states, to nation states and is moving towards working together more and more. Look at what has been achieved through cooperation in Europe, borders virtually invisible, Human Rights enshrined, scientific cooperation reaching out to the stars, peace on a continent ravaged by war for centuries. So yes, I see turning back to city states would be a terrible idea.

Progressive is achieved by working together, not by splitting ourselves into smaller and smaller groups.

However, if one group doesn't want to work with others, and would like to spilt into a smaller and smaller group in the hope that that will make them happy, then they should do so legally. Laws are created by democratically elected leaders, constitutions written, and these have to be respected, in the same way that the new state would expect their laws, and their constitution to be respected.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"CLCC it's interesting to see your take on this topic. From your experience I'd thought you would side with the Catalonians. But your views on Brexit also tells me you believe in a united world. So independence is going backwards on your believe.

What's your thought on identity? Do you think they want to identify themselves as a nation or country?

What about oppressive regimes? Would you side with the oppressed to be independent? Since it is usually the oppressed who fight and end up in excile, tortured etc. Should they accept it?

Look at what has been achieved, violence, and now reports of businesses relocating to other parts of Spain. Tourism is sure to take a hit to. It's not just the people who want independence that are being hurt, but also people on the otherside of the debate who want Catalonia to remain part of Spain. People on both sides will lose jobs, houses, savings etc. Like I have said on either this thread or the other, I know and have worked with and supported people who have lost a lot more than this.

Independence is great for the politicians, they get to feel like great heroes, but it does very little for everyone else. The idea that everyone will be happy in a newly independent state is a myth. Everyone is every country is unhappy with their government, that doesn't change from the smallest country to the biggest country.

What would someone be able to do in an independent Catalonia that they cannot do today? Nothing, it will all be the same, and what will all the pain have been for? Nothing.

Civilisation has gone from tribes, to city states, to nation states and is moving towards working together more and more. Look at what has been achieved through cooperation in Europe, borders virtually invisible, Human Rights enshrined, scientific cooperation reaching out to the stars, peace on a continent ravaged by war for centuries. So yes, I see turning back to city states would be a terrible idea.

Progressive is achieved by working together, not by splitting ourselves into smaller and smaller groups.

However, if one group doesn't want to work with others, and would like to spilt into a smaller and smaller group in the hope that that will make them happy, then they should do so legally. Laws are created by democratically elected leaders, constitutions written, and these have to be respected, in the same way that the new state would expect their laws, and their constitution to be respected. "

Ah those fond memories of 2014 in Scotland where Asda , RBS , Morrsions etc were going to leave an independent Scotland

Remember BBC getting their arses caught out lying about RBS moving HQ ?

RBS had been talking about their “registered office” or the “brass plaque”, with no implications for jobs, which the chief executive had described as “a technical matter with no implications for jobs or investment”.

It was also subsequently found that the overstated leak to the BBC in 2014 came from a Treasury official in London.

Salmond said yesterday: “This morning the BBC broadcast a perfectly reasonable interview with RBS chief executive Ross McEwan, who could not have been clearer that he was talking about the bank’s domicile and its plaque, not its headquarters. Indeed, his comments that this would have no impact on jobs were reported.

Now Sabadell trying to threating to move HQ thats odd because 'there was no vote' on Sunday according to Rajoy's enraged PeePee. Must be some mistake lol

Oh i see a boycott of TSB coming soon never ever try and threaten people and hold them to ransom it wont go well.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Welcome to the 21st century democracy where a A court suspending a debate in Parliament

Dangerous times we are living in where true dictatorship seems alive

Somehow i dont think that is going to worry Catalan people the more Spain push the more Catalan people will say fuck off!

Seems Spain's minority government aint that bright they claim the majority dont want independence then they should prove it then oh wait they just lost 2 million voters and injured 900+ and stole 700,000 ballots they seem very afraid of something they claim never took place on Sunday lol

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Ask the 3 million plus that never took part in it!

Because it was an illegal ballot with a illegitimate result, print to your own ballot paper(as many as you want), vote where you want as often as you want, municipalities reporting more votes than registered within them.

The whole thing is a complete farce, less than 40% (dubious) voted for it, what a way to steal a country.

But blood and soil, flags and stuff, keeps the nats happy.

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By *uxinteriorMan
over a year ago

south west , continental

At a time when the Eu is trying to rebrand, repackage, strengthen and bring all member states together as one, they don't really need an independent Catalunya fiasco as well as the Brexit fiasco.

They literally do not know what to do. What has been the response for overhand police violence in preventing folk voting, ohh 'it's the Spanish governments problem' was the Eu line. They have no answer, impotent as ever. If these regions go Independent it's not a given that they will want to be members of the EU, they may want to remain, dare I say independent.

We all know that an independent Catalunya means, a lot more will follow their lead. There's a lot more stuff bubbling in the pot just waiting to boil over!

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"Ask the 3 million plus that never took part in it!

Because it was an illegal ballot with a illegitimate result, print to your own ballot paper(as many as you want), vote where you want as often as you want, municipalities reporting more votes than registered within them.

The whole thing is a complete farce, less than 40% (dubious) voted for it, what a way to steal a country.

But blood and soil, flags and stuff, keeps the nats happy.

"

If it had been allowed to run without state riot police, the turnout would have been much higher.

It could have been overseen to ensure correct ballot procedures are in place, then a true figure would have been produced.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

If it had been allowed to run without state riot police, the turnout would have been much higher.

It could have been overseen to ensure correct ballot procedures are in place, then a true figure would have been produced."

actually... that bit is not true, because those major supporters of the "no" side asked people to boycott the vote because of the way the referendum was voted on by the largest party....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If it had been allowed to run without state riot police, the turnout would have been much higher.

It could have been overseen to ensure correct ballot procedures are in place, then a true figure would have been produced.

actually... that bit is not true, because those major supporters of the "no" side asked people to boycott the vote because of the way the referendum was voted on by the largest party....

"
Then the no vote abstained. Their choice .If you didnt vote you can't complain.

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By *ir1967Man
over a year ago

in da sticks, london, amsterdam, madrid


" Not condemned the violence in Catalonia? 900 people injured by the police for trying to vote.

For the same reason they did not condemn the British government when it ordered police to attack striking miners in 1984 or any other member states legal policing of its country. It is not a matter for the EU it is an internal matter for Spain to deal with."

You are spot on!

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"

If it had been allowed to run without state riot police, the turnout would have been much higher.

It could have been overseen to ensure correct ballot procedures are in place, then a true figure would have been produced.

actually... that bit is not true, because those major supporters of the "no" side asked people to boycott the vote because of the way the referendum was voted on by the largest party....

"

Their was no "NO" campaign. To have such a campaign, would have given legitimacy to the illegal referendum.

Turnouts in elections in Catalonia have been historically low.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

If this is true then the world is fucked

So am seeing 50% of Spanish people support the police attacks on the Catalan people

I dont care if you are for or against Catalonia being indepenedent there is no way anyone can defend police beating the fuck out of people showing no threat and holding their hands up.

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"If this is true then the world is fucked

So am seeing 50% of Spanish people support the police attacks on the Catalan people

I dont care if you are for or against Catalonia being indepenedent there is no way anyone can defend police beating the fuck out of people showing no threat and holding their hands up.

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you."

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"If this is true then the world is fucked

So am seeing 50% of Spanish people support the police attacks on the Catalan people

I dont care if you are for or against Catalonia being indepenedent there is no way anyone can defend police beating the fuck out of people showing no threat and holding their hands up.

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same."

I think there were quite a few. Maybe even some on this forum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If this is true then the world is fucked

So am seeing 50% of Spanish people support the police attacks on the Catalan people

I dont care if you are for or against Catalonia being indepenedent there is no way anyone can defend police beating the fuck out of people showing no threat and holding their hands up.

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same.

I think there were quite a few. Maybe even some on this forum."

Sure was, fsmily and me got caught up in it and i wasn't even a miner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If this is true then the world is fucked

So am seeing 50% of Spanish people support the police attacks on the Catalan people

I dont care if you are for or against Catalonia being indepenedent there is no way anyone can defend police beating the fuck out of people showing no threat and holding their hands up.

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same.

I think there were quite a few. Maybe even some on this forum."

When to check my grandparents were ok as their house was right in the thick of it, cops came down the street like Romans with shields forming the 'turtle'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If this is true then the world is fucked

So am seeing 50% of Spanish people support the police attacks on the Catalan people

I dont care if you are for or against Catalonia being indepenedent there is no way anyone can defend police beating the fuck out of people showing no threat and holding their hands up.

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same.

I think there were quite a few. Maybe even some on this forum.

When to check my grandparents were ok as their house was right in the thick of it, cops came down the street like Romans with shields forming the 'turtle' "

I remember thousands and thousands of police staying in the holiday resort ...and convoys of police minibuses...conveying them to the pits around Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same.

I think there were quite a few. Maybe even some on this forum."

Mainly yourself CLCC, since the miners strike was judged illegal, so presumably you support the police action in Catalonia and in the uk against the miners?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

I really hope its not true and if it is then what does it say about Spanish people that are willing to beat the shit of people that dont agree with you.

How many of the British population supported the RUC and B Specials when they were beating up the non violent civil rights protesters in NI in 68 and 69? How many British people supported the police when they attacked striking miners all over the country?

There is no difference, and the result will be the same.

I think there were quite a few. Maybe even some on this forum.

Mainly yourself CLCC, since the miners strike was judged illegal, so presumably you support the police action in Catalonia and in the uk against the miners?"

Why do you keep trying to paint me as the violent one? I have told you multiple times about the human rights work that I have done, and how I don't want to see people hurt, maimed, killed, r@ped etc. Yet You are the one who says I should be ashamed of that view. What have you ever done to stop any of that from happening? Or are you just another keyboard warrior?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think that the same thing would happen in the UK if say Scotland decsided to hole a referendum not matter what the Goverment said?

I don't really think so, at least not in the same way as the spanish government did with the police.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

Mainly yourself CLCC, since the miners strike was judged illegal, so presumably you support the police action in Catalonia and in the uk against the miners?

Why do you keep trying to paint me as the violent one? I have told you multiple times about the human rights work that I have done, and how I don't want to see people hurt, maimed, killed, r@ped etc. Yet You are the one who says I should be ashamed of that view. What have you ever done to stop any of that from happening? Or are you just another keyboard warrior? "

Where in this post do I mention condoning violence?

The post you repeatedly keep straw manning, I said you should be ashamed of quashing democracy. Nothing to do with having the morals everyone else here has about war crimes.

I'm asking you why you made a big play of the Catalan referendum being illegal, so using police to stop it was ok. Doesn't that same logic apply to the miners strike?

Both were trying to excercise freedoms expected in a civilised society.

You denounce one, but support the other. Can you explain the contradiction?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Mainly yourself CLCC, since the miners strike was judged illegal, so presumably you support the police action in Catalonia and in the uk against the miners?

Why do you keep trying to paint me as the violent one? I have told you multiple times about the human rights work that I have done, and how I don't want to see people hurt, maimed, killed, r@ped etc. Yet You are the one who says I should be ashamed of that view. What have you ever done to stop any of that from happening? Or are you just another keyboard warrior?

Where in this post do I mention condoning violence?

The post you repeatedly keep straw manning, I said you should be ashamed of quashing democracy. Nothing to do with having the morals everyone else here has about war crimes.

I'm asking you why you made a big play of the Catalan referendum being illegal, so using police to stop it was ok. Doesn't that same logic apply to the miners strike?

Both were trying to excercise freedoms expected in a civilised society.

You denounce one, but support the other. Can you explain the contradiction?"

You are talking crap, yet again, you are making assumptions that I support one and denounce another.

In a normal society we expect the police to stop illegal activity.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

You are talking crap, yet again, you are making assumptions that I support one and denounce another.

In a normal society we expect the police to stop illegal activity. "

In what way am I talking crap? Thats not a very constructibe debate style.

So, you have said the Spanish were right to use police to stop the referendum, because it was illegal.

So, by the same token, do you think the British government was right to use police to control the miners strike?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"

You are talking crap, yet again, you are making assumptions that I support one and denounce another.

In a normal society we expect the police to stop illegal activity.

In what way am I talking crap? Thats not a very constructibe debate style.

So, you have said the Spanish were right to use police to stop the referendum, because it was illegal.

So, by the same token, do you think the British government was right to use police to control the miners strike?"

The miners strike was an illegal strike, the NUM didn't even follow their own rules on taking strike action.

In life, there are right ways of doing things, changing things, and there are wrong ways. Anarchy is never far away when following the latter path.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"

You are talking crap, yet again, you are making assumptions that I support one and denounce another.

In a normal society we expect the police to stop illegal activity.

In what way am I talking crap? Thats not a very constructibe debate style.

So, you have said the Spanish were right to use police to stop the referendum, because it was illegal.

So, by the same token, do you think the British government was right to use police to control the miners strike?

The miners strike was an illegal strike, the NUM didn't even follow their own rules on taking strike action.

In life, there are right ways of doing things, changing things, and there are wrong ways. Anarchy is never far away when following the latter path."

Yes it was judged illegal. That's why I was asking CLCC what he thought of using police to control it. He implied earlier in this thread that others in the forum would support how police were used in that strike. I was personally involved politically at the time supporting the miners.

I don't understand how someone can support police use for suppression of one political activity yet denounce it for another.

i agree, anarchy isn't the way forward in any society. I don't classify referendums as anarchy though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The main problem with the miner strike was in the beginning it was an illegal strike but people always have the option of demonstrating in their own time and standing at the gates asking people not to go in.

But then then you get the hard-core coming in and demanding and menacing people into following the strike.

Many people and families were intimidated and threatened with violence from striking minors to not go into work or suffer the consequences.

A lot of people just could not afford not to work end of story!

Then the Police actions were taken, then the union started bussing flying pickets to the mines to stop Lorries etc. going in.

Yes it was a tragedy that mines had to close but ask yourself would you keep continually pouring money into a business if it’s losing money?

I’m not on the side of the police or the minors but the violence did start at the gates and escalated from there.

There was never going to be any winners on either side no matter what.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"The main problem with the miner strike was in the beginning it was an illegal strike but people always have the option of demonstrating in their own time and standing at the gates asking people not to go in.

But then then you get the hard-core coming in and demanding and menacing people into following the strike.

Many people and families were intimidated and threatened with violence from striking minors to not go into work or suffer the consequences.

A lot of people just could not afford not to work end of story!

Then the Police actions were taken, then the union started bussing flying pickets to the mines to stop Lorries etc. going in.

Yes it was a tragedy that mines had to close but ask yourself would you keep continually pouring money into a business if it’s losing money?

I’m not on the side of the police or the minors but the violence did start at the gates and escalated from there.

There was never going to be any winners on either side no matter what.

"

Correct and lots of nasty things were done by both sides. It was thrown into the discussion by someone trying to say why was it ok for the British government to do that, but the Spanish government to not send their police to catalonia.

My view is that obviously we have to have law and order. But also there is a political side to both those events. Police were being used to maintain law and order. But they were also used under that guise to break the strike / thwart independence.

If people start accepting the use of police to achieve an end political goal, we are on very thin ice.

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By *oubepoMan
over a year ago

Spain Portugal France


"

Mainly yourself CLCC, since the miners strike was judged illegal, so presumably you support the police action in Catalonia and in the uk against the miners?

Why do you keep trying to paint me as the violent one? I have told you multiple times about the human rights work that I have done, and how I don't want to see people hurt, maimed, killed, r@ped etc. Yet You are the one who says I should be ashamed of that view. What have you ever done to stop any of that from happening? Or are you just another keyboard warrior?

Where in this post do I mention condoning violence?

The post you repeatedly keep straw manning, I said you should be ashamed of quashing democracy. Nothing to do with having the morals everyone else here has about war crimes.

I'm asking you why you made a big play of the Catalan referendum being illegal, so using police to stop it was ok. Doesn't that same logic apply to the miners strike?

Both were trying to excercise freedoms expected in a civilised society.

You denounce one, but support the other. Can you explain the contradiction?

You are talking crap, yet again, you are making assumptions that I support one and denounce another.

In a normal society we expect the police to stop illegal activity. "

It is not illegal in Spain to hold a referendum - The people wishing to vote and consequently beaten with sticks were not breaking any law

The result of any referendum might be considered void or deemed non-legally binding but that does not mean the people queueing to vote were engaged in any illegal behaviour or breaking the law in any way

Even if placing a voting slip in a ballot box was an illegal activity - In no way does it warrant rubber bullets and beatings!

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury


"

Mainly yourself CLCC, since the miners strike was judged illegal, so presumably you support the police action in Catalonia and in the uk against the miners?

Why do you keep trying to paint me as the violent one? I have told you multiple times about the human rights work that I have done, and how I don't want to see people hurt, maimed, killed, r@ped etc. Yet You are the one who says I should be ashamed of that view. What have you ever done to stop any of that from happening? Or are you just another keyboard warrior?

Where in this post do I mention condoning violence?

The post you repeatedly keep straw manning, I said you should be ashamed of quashing democracy. Nothing to do with having the morals everyone else here has about war crimes.

I'm asking you why you made a big play of the Catalan referendum being illegal, so using police to stop it was ok. Doesn't that same logic apply to the miners strike?

Both were trying to excercise freedoms expected in a civilised society.

You denounce one, but support the other. Can you explain the contradiction?

You are talking crap, yet again, you are making assumptions that I support one and denounce another.

In a normal society we expect the police to stop illegal activity.

It is not illegal in Spain to hold a referendum - The people wishing to vote and consequently beaten with sticks were not breaking any law

The result of any referendum might be considered void or deemed non-legally binding but that does not mean the people queueing to vote were engaged in any illegal behaviour or breaking the law in any way

Even if placing a voting slip in a ballot box was an illegal activity - In no way does it warrant rubber bullets and beatings!

"

The union must be protected! Its sad that liberals have been tricked into protecting the Reich.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Police are there to stop illegal activity. In a civilised society we expect citizens to follow the laws and if they don't we rely on the police and the courts to enforce the law. This is as true of the UK as it is Spain.

The police didn't attack anyone unprovoked, they used force to deal with people who hadn't obeyed lawful commands to disperse or leave certain locations.

If you think citizens shouldn't obey the law, and the police and courts shouldn't enforce the law, then you will find yourself living in a much more dangerous and violent society, not a society that I would want to live in.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

...... see what i mean

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

..... see what i mean 

"

Well clem if you prefer somewhere without laws and courts, why are you living in the UK, rather than Kurdistan, or western Burma, or Somalia etc?

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP   Man
over a year ago

salisbury

I'm sure you would have been cheering on the police at the poll tax riots to.

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