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"I blame the people who did it." . I blame the EU this would never have happened under Wilson  | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own..." you blame the public it was the public that were injured and you blame them nice one wtf | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... you blame the public it was the public that were injured and you blame them nice one wtf " What do you have to say about the person that blames Abraham? | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... you blame the public it was the public that were injured and you blame them nice one wtf " I somehow don't think this bucket was just sat there merrily burning away while every fucker just sat there watching it  | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own..." I think you have no idea what you are commenting and apportioning blame about. I think even the most observant (knowing what they were looking for) would have had difficulty spotting that bomb being planted. I am pretty certain you could have been stood next to the bomber as they planted it and would have noticed nothing. I say this because I have seen the photo of the device in place, understand and appreciate the mindset behind its placement. All I can say is I don't understand how someone who understood how to best place a device to cause maximum damage with minimal chance of it being spotted before detonation did not have either the technical knowledge to build a better bomb or the knowledge to know how to get that knowledge. Maybe I am beginning to become paranoid in my old age but I smell a very convenient near miss for those in power, and that makes me think RAT! | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... I think you have no idea what you are commenting and apportioning blame about. I think even the most observant (knowing what they were looking for) would have had difficulty spotting that bomb being planted. I am pretty certain you could have been stood next to the bomber as they planted it and would have noticed nothing. I say this because I have seen the photo of the device in place, understand and appreciate the mindset behind its placement. All I can say is I don't understand how someone who understood how to best place a device to cause maximum damage with minimal chance of it being spotted before detonation did not have either the technical knowledge to build a better bomb or the knowledge to know how to get that knowledge. Maybe I am beginning to become paranoid in my old age but I smell a very convenient near miss for those in power, and that makes me think RAT!" Did you think the same about the Richard Reed case? They had the knowledge to build a device but not the common sense to tell the guy they gave it to how to detonate it. | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own..." You sound like someone who has never used the tube. Nobody notices anything on the tube. | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own..." You blame the public.... dud you seriously say that is your brains in your boxers. .. Someone twisted twat puts bomb on a train full of innocent adults and children and you blame the public... No wonder the world is in a mess ... stay in Wales please | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... You blame the public.... dud you seriously say that is your brains in your boxers. .. Someone twisted twat puts bomb on a train full of innocent adults and children and you blame the public... No wonder the world is in a mess ... stay in Wales please " Problem is if there's a lot of passengers, who knows which person's property is who's | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... You blame the public.... dud you seriously say that is your brains in your boxers. .. Someone twisted twat puts bomb on a train full of innocent adults and children and you blame the public... No wonder the world is in a mess ... stay in Wales please Problem is if there's a lot of passengers, who knows which person's property is who's" The cctv knows. And they have made an arrest in Dover. | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own..." Am I the only one who saw this post as a joke?  | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... Am I the only one who saw this post as a joke? "Well the first 3 responses were jokes. Only he can tell us if the 4th was one also...  | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... Am I the only one who saw this post as a joke? Well the first 3 responses were jokes. Only he can tell us if the 4th was one also... "Right. I thought it followed on nicely from the first three. Now that our pm has recommended that the public "trust their instincts", does this give the mostly untrained Joe Public carte blanche to say something along the lines of "you look dodgy mate. You must be a terrorist". | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... Am I the only one who saw this post as a joke? Well the first 3 responses were jokes. Only he can tell us if the 4th was one also...
Right. I thought it followed on nicely from the first three.
Now that our pm has recommended that the public "trust their instincts", does this give the mostly untrained Joe Public carte blanche to say something along the lines of "you look dodgy mate. You must be a terrorist". "I think people already look upon arabic peoples with suspicion.We aren't yet a the lynch mob stage.The UK is so diverse today joe public will be looking for a needle in the haystack. | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own... I think you have no idea what you are commenting and apportioning blame about. I think even the most observant (knowing what they were looking for) would have had difficulty spotting that bomb being planted. I am pretty certain you could have been stood next to the bomber as they planted it and would have noticed nothing. I say this because I have seen the photo of the device in place, understand and appreciate the mindset behind its placement. All I can say is I don't understand how someone who understood how to best place a device to cause maximum damage with minimal chance of it being spotted before detonation did not have either the technical knowledge to build a better bomb or the knowledge to know how to get that knowledge. Maybe I am beginning to become paranoid in my old age but I smell a very convenient near miss for those in power, and that makes me think RAT!" Nah, you are just paranoid. It was simply the shittest bomb in the history of shit bombs. The placement is common sense, people leave bulky items in those areas all the time while they take a seat. | |||
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"I blame the public. We are always told to report suspicious packages or items left unattended on trains and platforms..yet this big bulky item was left to sit and burn in its own..." that is like blaming a pedestrian for walking on the pavement when a d*unk driver loses control and mounts the pavement and kills them.. we sadly have lived in times when various terrorists have pretty much for the last 40+ years been going about their business and yes we should be vigilant but the fact that the device was there was not the fault of the innocent people on that tube.. this one, this near miss should serve as a reminder that we do need to up our game and report suspect packages but the blame is firmly with those who made it and placed it.. | |||
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"The placement is common sense, people leave bulky items in those areas all the time while they take a seat." Really? People leave bulky items in the corner (slightly away from the walls to amplify and direct the blast) opposite the doors that will open. Whenever I see bulky items left they are placed hard against the bulkhead walls, but I guess you living in London with all your hinted at military rank and experience are so much better placed to make such judgments. So I bow to your obvious superior knowledge and accept that it was 'the shittest bomb in the history of shit bombs' and its near perfect placement in the spot where it would have done most damage and was least likely to be spotted was pure happenstance. | |||
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"The placement is common sense, people leave bulky items in those areas all the time while they take a seat. Really? People leave bulky items in the corner (slightly away from the walls to amplify and direct the blast) opposite the doors that will open. Whenever I see bulky items left they are placed hard against the bulkhead walls, but I guess you living in London with all your hinted at military rank and experience are so much better placed to make such judgments. So I bow to your obvious superior knowledge and accept that it was 'the shittest bomb in the history of shit bombs' and its near perfect placement in the spot where it would have done most damage and was least likely to be spotted was pure happenstance." I understand that the train was in an Overground section of the tube network. Would it have increased the power of the explosion (had it occurred) if the train had been in an underground section of the network? | |||
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" I understand that the train was in an Overground section of the tube network. Would it have increased the power of the explosion (had it occurred) if the train had been in an underground section of the network? " Yes, imagine a firework in your open hand... when it goes bang you get a burnt hand, close your hand around the same firework and when it goes bang you loose a hand. | |||
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" I understand that the train was in an Overground section of the tube network. Would it have increased the power of the explosion (had it occurred) if the train had been in an underground section of the network? Yes, imagine a firework in your open hand... when it goes bang you get a burnt hand, close your hand around the same firework and when it goes bang you loose a hand." So that would seem undermine will's point that the IED was placed with such precision, yet the obvious and most effective way to increase the effect of the detonation would have been to do it in a tunnel, rather than an open section of the network. | |||
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" I understand that the train was in an Overground section of the tube network. Would it have increased the power of the explosion (had it occurred) if the train had been in an underground section of the network? Yes, imagine a firework in your open hand... when it goes bang you get a burnt hand, close your hand around the same firework and when it goes bang you loose a hand. So that would seem undermine will's point that the IED was placed with such precision, yet the obvious and most effective way to increase the effect of the detonation would have been to do it in a tunnel, rather than an open section of the network." By my reading, will was referring to the placement of the IED on the carriage. While the timing of the attempted detonation would have been potentially more destructive within a tunnel, there is the possibility that the terrorist had attempted to detonate in the tunnel but clearly it did not explode, but again they may have tried to target more people by detonating it in a packed station? All we can do is speculate. | |||
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"I understand that the train was in an Overground section of the tube network. Would it have increased the power of the explosion (had it occurred) if the train had been in an underground section of the network? " My knowledge of the characteristics is limited so please do not quote me as an expert on this, but my understanding of the physics involved is that the relative force of an explosion is determined by the difference in pressure between that generated by the explosion and the surrounding area. I am not sure how much of little difference detonation in a train above or below ground would make to that although I can see that had the detonation been in a tunnel it may have been further amplified by tunnel walls and the darkness and confined space would have added to the panic and injuries caused in the aftermath. AS to why the device was triggered where it was could be down to the method of ignition which according to what I have been reading may well have been a mobile phone trigger. | |||
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"I understand that the train was in an Overground section of the tube network. Would it have increased the power of the explosion (had it occurred) if the train had been in an underground section of the network? My knowledge of the characteristics is limited so please do not quote me as an expert on this, but my understanding of the physics involved is that the relative force of an explosion is determined by the difference in pressure between that generated by the explosion and the surrounding area. I am not sure how much of little difference detonation in a train above or below ground would make to that although I can see that had the detonation been in a tunnel it may have been further amplified by tunnel walls and the darkness and confined space would have added to the panic and injuries caused in the aftermath. AS to why the device was triggered where it was could be down to the method of ignition which according to what I have been reading may well have been a mobile phone trigger." Difficult to get a mobile signal in a tunnel! 
Wouldn't it be more efficient to detonate by direct contact for increased certainty. I would guess that suicide bombing might be the preferred method of delivery to ensure success. | |||
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"Difficult to get a mobile signal in a tunnel!
Wouldn't it be more efficient to detonate by direct contact for increased certainty. I would guess that suicide bombing might be the preferred method of delivery to ensure success. "I am only repeating what I have heard and read. And according to what I have read the trigger was quite sophisticated and is seen as a disturbing development because such triggers have not been used in many years because they require a level of bomb-making expertise that has up till now not been available to jihadist bomb-makers. Personally I have noticed that the flow of information about the bomb has dried up and I expect we will not be hearing anything more. In fact I would not be surprised if those who were describing what was being shown and those in the media doing the showing have not had the realities of the anti terrorism act explained to them in great detail by special branch officers. | |||
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"Difficult to get a mobile signal in a tunnel!
Wouldn't it be more efficient to detonate by direct contact for increased certainty. I would guess that suicide bombing might be the preferred method of delivery to ensure success.
I am only repeating what I have heard and read. And according to what I have read the trigger was quite sophisticated and is seen as a disturbing development because such triggers have not been used in many years because they require a level of bomb-making expertise that has up till now not been available to jihadist bomb-makers.
Personally I have noticed that the flow of information about the bomb has dried up and I expect we will not be hearing anything more. In fact I would not be surprised if those who were describing what was being shown and those in the media doing the showing have not had the realities of the anti terrorism act explained to them in great detail by special branch officers."Maybe a poor mobile phone signal contributed to a failed explosion? Maybe the suicide bomber lost his bottle and did a runner resulting in a failed explosion?! Obviously those investigating are going to limit the details they share with the media, there is a blurred line between protecting the public by letting them know how to identify IEDs, and teaching how to build IEDs. | |||
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"Difficult to get a mobile signal in a tunnel!
Wouldn't it be more efficient to detonate by direct contact for increased certainty. I would guess that suicide bombing might be the preferred method of delivery to ensure success.
I am only repeating what I have heard and read. And according to what I have read the trigger was quite sophisticated and is seen as a disturbing development because such triggers have not been used in many years because they require a level of bomb-making expertise that has up till now not been available to jihadist bomb-makers.
Personally I have noticed that the flow of information about the bomb has dried up and I expect we will not be hearing anything more. In fact I would not be surprised if those who were describing what was being shown and those in the media doing the showing have not had the realities of the anti terrorism act explained to them in great detail by special branch officers.
Maybe a poor mobile phone signal contributed to a failed explosion?
Maybe the suicide bomber lost his bottle and did a runner resulting in a failed explosion?!
Obviously those investigating are going to limit the details they share with the media, there is a blurred line between protecting the public by letting them know how to identify IEDs, and teaching how to build IEDs."RIGHT! Anyone with real technical knowledge about this wouldn't make it known anyway. | |||
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"One thing I don't understand- there is so damage to the bag the bomb was in or the surrounding walls of the train. ..yet a fireball was supposed to have gone down the carriage and lots of people were burned? How does that work?" The bulkhead and door behind the device act like a mirror and lens combined. by placing the device about 4 to 6 inches away from those surfaces they reflected and amplified the flash and pressure wave. Think of ripples in a bath. If you start a wave from the side it spreads out and is reflected by surfaces it hits, but if you start the wave a little away from the side the first wave is followed by a second wave that catches up to the first wave when it is reflected off any surface thus amplifying it. Like most physics really very simple and can be seen in everyday life. Now you turn the bath into a tube (the train) and the water into a fireball carried on a pressure wave being reflected off every surface back into the carriages and the fireball travels much further than if it had been in the open. | |||
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"....but didn't burn a bag sitting right beside it or affect it in any way, didn't melt the bag the stuff was in at all, didn't leave any sign at all of charring or singeing? A fireball travelling down a carriage would have caused facial burns yet the lady I saw on television had no sign whatsoever anywhere on her except for a bandage vertically round her head with no dressings, no mark elsewhere even on her light suit- she was immaculate." No, it is called flash-over. It burns hair because of the high ratio of surface area to mass and it does not damage the area around the 'blast' because their is not enough oxygen in the air surrounding the seat of the blast to oxidise the contents. If the explosive had fully detonated it would have supplied the O2 to oxidise all combustibles around the seat of the blast. As it was the blast moved out using up O2 until the fuel ignited was oxidised... It is the difference between an oxidising agent igniting and an organic-peroxide igniting. The first is fuel only that expands until the O2 from the surrounding atmosphere balances the oxidation of the fuel ignited (a burn), the other contains both fuel and an O2 supply and expands until all fuel and O2 is oxidised (an explosion). If the expansion is slower than the speed of sound it is a 'low explosion' if faster than the speed of sound it becomes a 'high explosion'. high explosions require a catalyst to be added to the explosive. The theory is really very simple. Practical application is more problematic... LoL
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