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"Good news, macron said that the doors remains open for the uk to remain in the eu, so if britain changes their mind, it is not too late to rejoin, the offer is open until the brexit negotiations ends. What is your thoughts of it? Especially now that corbyn will hold an election in the autumn, anything could happen "Corbyn can't call an election in the autumn. He is not in government and he is not the Prime Minister. | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. " And the slow steady economic decline is well in motion exactly as one side of the debate predicted. Cut your losses or follow it all the way to the bottom?? Most people act in self interest so if I was a betting man I'd say brexit will be cancelled once people really start to sweat | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. " You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal  )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
"Yes, and Theresa May said there wouldn't be a general election too. Do me a favour and go and Google "naive" for me.  | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. And the slow steady economic decline is well in motion exactly as one side of the debate predicted. Cut your losses or follow it all the way to the bottom?? Most people act in self interest so if I was a betting man I'd say brexit will be cancelled once people really start to sweat " Well yes, some families are already on their knees as it is, others are on the financial tight rope. I wouldn't want to be any politician right now. | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
"If you have a second read of my post you'll notice I didnt once say that I thought the UK would stay. What I did say was that the negotiations are unfolding exactly the way I, and others, said they would months ago. The UK team are unprepared. The EU team is outmanouevering them. The EU is taking a hard stance and their primary aim is to make Brexit such a bad choice that the UK will change its mind or return in the future. Im not making a prediction on whether the EU will succeed in stopping Brexit. But it is clearly their aim with their negotiation tactics so far combined with this announcement that theres a way back for the UK. And that means the Brexit deal is going to suck and if the UK accepts it then things are going to get very very bad. If they have no deal it is worse. And although you might keep repeating that Brexit is inevitable it quite obviously isnt. If some earth shattering information came out tomorrow and 90% of people in the UK were against Brexit it would clearly not happen. 80% it wouldnt happen. 70% still no Brexit. Under 60%? Maybe it happens, maybe not. If you think the non binding referendum has become binding you're wrong. It all hinges on public support, and the labour/tory vote totals dont count. Its support for Brexit that matters and if it hits 65%+ against then it will be off. Guaranteed. Whether that happens or not is a completely different story. | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
If you have a second read of my post you'll notice I didnt once say that I thought the UK would stay. What I did say was that the negotiations are unfolding exactly the way I, and others, said they would months ago. The UK team are unprepared. The EU team is outmanouevering them. The EU is taking a hard stance and their primary aim is to make Brexit such a bad choice that the UK will change its mind or return in the future.
Im not making a prediction on whether the EU will succeed in stopping Brexit. But it is clearly their aim with their negotiation tactics so far combined with this announcement that theres a way back for the UK. And that means the Brexit deal is going to suck and if the UK accepts it then things are going to get very very bad. If they have no deal it is worse.
And although you might keep repeating that Brexit is inevitable it quite obviously isnt. If some earth shattering information came out tomorrow and 90% of people in the UK were against Brexit it would clearly not happen. 80% it wouldnt happen. 70% still no Brexit. Under 60%? Maybe it happens, maybe not. If you think the non binding referendum has become binding you're wrong. It all hinges on public support, and the labour/tory vote totals dont count. Its support for Brexit that matters and if it hits 65%+ against then it will be off. Guaranteed. Whether that happens or not is a completely different story."You said and i quote... " the EU are obviously confident of holding the bloc together". The UK are currently in the bloc so you suggested the UK would stay in the block if the bloc holds together. It won't happen and the UK is leaving the bloc and will leave the EU. That means the bloc won't hold together and the bloc will be splitting when the UK leaves. It's also no good trying to scaremonger me into wanting to remain or even to have a soft brexit, I've always been in favour of hard brexit and I'd be very happy with leaving the EU on no deal. A complete clean break with the EU is what I'd prefer, where we pay no exit fee, not a single penny, and don't pay anymore contribution fees in future. We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome. | |||
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" You said and i quote... " the EU are obviously confident of holding the bloc together". The UK are currently in the bloc so you suggested the UK would stay in the block if the bloc holds together. It won't happen and the UK is leaving the bloc and will leave the EU. That means the bloc won't hold together and the bloc will be splitting when the UK leaves. It's also no good trying to scaremonger me into wanting to remain or even to have a soft brexit, I've always been in favour of hard brexit and I'd be very happy with leaving the EU on no deal. A complete clean break with the EU is what I'd prefer, where we pay no exit fee, not a single penny, and don't pay anymore contribution fees in future. We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome. "The EU being confident about something and what I think are sometimes very different things
Clearly the EU is confident, you can judge that on their actions.
So the UK leaves the EU with no deal, at the pace they're going at and with common sense being used thats at least a year from happening. Theres no way either side would realistically walk away before then (I actually think 16 months would be the earliest but lets say a year).
That would leave the UK 10 months to replace and improve upon all the comprehensive trade deals the EU has in place with countries around the world. Any one deal would take years to do. The UK would need at least a dozen of those to kick in when their EU membership expires or businesses will close and jobs lost.
How do you envision any plausible scenario where this government negotiates 12 comprehensive trade deals simultaneously at a faster pace than anyone has ever done it before AND gets better terms than the EU got AND generates enough trade for the right industries to replace all the lost EU trade AND doesnt drive up costs for the UK.
And Im not scaremongering by asking that question because I can see how my opinion plays out (I saw it months ago too and we've already seen some of it play out that exact way so far) so Im genuinely interested in how this could go and be a success with no deal with the EU. | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
If you have a second read of my post you'll notice I didnt once say that I thought the UK would stay. What I did say was that the negotiations are unfolding exactly the way I, and others, said they would months ago. The UK team are unprepared. The EU team is outmanouevering them. The EU is taking a hard stance and their primary aim is to make Brexit such a bad choice that the UK will change its mind or return in the future.
Im not making a prediction on whether the EU will succeed in stopping Brexit. But it is clearly their aim with their negotiation tactics so far combined with this announcement that theres a way back for the UK. And that means the Brexit deal is going to suck and if the UK accepts it then things are going to get very very bad. If they have no deal it is worse.
And although you might keep repeating that Brexit is inevitable it quite obviously isnt. If some earth shattering information came out tomorrow and 90% of people in the UK were against Brexit it would clearly not happen. 80% it wouldnt happen. 70% still no Brexit. Under 60%? Maybe it happens, maybe not. If you think the non binding referendum has become binding you're wrong. It all hinges on public support, and the labour/tory vote totals dont count. Its support for Brexit that matters and if it hits 65%+ against then it will be off. Guaranteed. Whether that happens or not is a completely different story.
You said and i quote... " the EU are obviously confident of holding the bloc together". The UK are currently in the bloc so you suggested the UK would stay in the block if the bloc holds together. It won't happen and the UK is leaving the bloc and will leave the EU. That means the bloc won't hold together and the bloc will be splitting when the UK leaves. It's also no good trying to scaremonger me into wanting to remain or even to have a soft brexit, I've always been in favour of hard brexit and I'd be very happy with leaving the EU on no deal. A complete clean break with the EU is what I'd prefer, where we pay no exit fee, not a single penny, and don't pay anymore contribution fees in future. We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome. "your in the minority now most of us have seen sence | |||
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" We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome. "OK braveheart. Do you at least acknowledge the possibility that your wildest dreams might not come true and that it might instead result in a deep recession. As it grows more unpopular, do you feel entitled to risk people's well being and livelihood and even futures for a chance at freedom from the tyranny of the EU you have "suffered"? | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
If you have a second read of my post you'll notice I didnt once say that I thought the UK would stay. What I did say was that the negotiations are unfolding exactly the way I, and others, said they would months ago. The UK team are unprepared. The EU team is outmanouevering them. The EU is taking a hard stance and their primary aim is to make Brexit such a bad choice that the UK will change its mind or return in the future.
Im not making a prediction on whether the EU will succeed in stopping Brexit. But it is clearly their aim with their negotiation tactics so far combined with this announcement that theres a way back for the UK. And that means the Brexit deal is going to suck and if the UK accepts it then things are going to get very very bad. If they have no deal it is worse.
And although you might keep repeating that Brexit is inevitable it quite obviously isnt. If some earth shattering information came out tomorrow and 90% of people in the UK were against Brexit it would clearly not happen. 80% it wouldnt happen. 70% still no Brexit. Under 60%? Maybe it happens, maybe not. If you think the non binding referendum has become binding you're wrong. It all hinges on public support, and the labour/tory vote totals dont count. Its support for Brexit that matters and if it hits 65%+ against then it will be off. Guaranteed. Whether that happens or not is a completely different story.
You said and i quote... " the EU are obviously confident of holding the bloc together". The UK are currently in the bloc so you suggested the UK would stay in the block if the bloc holds together. It won't happen and the UK is leaving the bloc and will leave the EU. That means the bloc won't hold together and the bloc will be splitting when the UK leaves. It's also no good trying to scaremonger me into wanting to remain or even to have a soft brexit, I've always been in favour of hard brexit and I'd be very happy with leaving the EU on no deal. A complete clean break with the EU is what I'd prefer, where we pay no exit fee, not a single penny, and don't pay anymore contribution fees in future. We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome. "We don't automatically get a seat on the WTO. In order to get a seat on the WTO we have to submit to it are general terms of trade. These then have to he approved by the rest of the members of the WTO, which includes the EU, before we can become a member and take our seat. It's been obvious from many of your past posts that you know little and understand even less about how EU trade works. It's now becoming pretty obvious that you understand and know even less about how world trade works. | |||
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"This has been occupying my thoughts for a few weeks now. When Macron was elected, one of the first things he said was "the EU must change", and, as a Leaver, that's all I ever wanted. Its become quite clear that Brexit has become toxic, a "cancer" as Lord Heseltine called it. Its affecting a politics, and its affecting our business, which in turn affects our daily lives. Lets be clear, the EU needs us. They need our money, our input into security, our business acumen but should they make encouraging noises, then lets listen. These Brexit negotiations are going to be very costly, both financially and time...every day they go on, then business is held in that word they hate..."uncertainty". Its time for all sides to be responsible. Leavers to say "ok, lets take a pause and listen to what is being said", Remainers to say "ok, its not what you wanted but lets all stick together and get this right for the country", The EU to say "ok, we want you here as our friends, we've heard your concerns and lets work something out" and our Goverment to say "things have changed since 2016 and we owe it to the country and the EU to take another serious look at this". The likes of Nigel Farage and Jacob Rees Mogg need to think of what's best for this country, Tim Farron and Nicola Sturgeon to reign in any sort of triumphalism and for us all to work in the best interests of this country, otherwise the cancer may destroy us all." Well said. | |||
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"I voted remain, but Labour's position of Britain voted leave, get over it, and looking beyond EU membership for how we protect workers rights and human rights is the right one. Brexit is... whatever we make of it. I was actallu surprised by Macron's election (he was standing against a fascist) but I don't think liberal complacency that qe can get back to normal will hold out. I think that liberal/centrist politics are ill-equipped to deal with the onslaught of the far right, with reactionary politics in general. Think of the EU's newest proposedmembers.... Umraine and Turkey.... both of which have becomemore authoritarian in the last couple of years. I seriously can't imagine mainland Europe accepting Turkey's political dissidents and LGBT rwfugees, given the anti-immigrant culture that has developed across Europe. The main reason behond Turkey's membership being that it was good for the German economy,which trickles down to everyone in the EU, yeah right? If Germany, which made such a big concerted effort at Vergangenheitsbewältigung who proper know the horrors of fascism, can't keep a lid on fascism, what hope is there for the rest of us? This is not a rant about free movenent. Far from it. But our system is broken if mogration to the most developed nations is incentivises workers to move to Western Europe, by virtue of pay and condirions beong shit in their home contry. The Poles, for example fought very hard against Soviet occupation, and deserve far more credit for that than the western narrative of "we brought them down via the space race. They did not ask for neoliberalism... what they really wanted was a less authoritarian socialism. The fact is the EU is centred on the economies of France and Germany, and formerly the UK. These national economies do notserve their people, but a pan-European elite, which, the further you move from centre to periphery, the less the people as a whole, are served" . Brilliantly well put observations  | |||
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" We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome.
OK braveheart.
Do you at least acknowledge the possibility that your wildest dreams might not come true and that it might instead result in a deep recession.
As it grows more unpopular, do you feel entitled to risk people's well being and livelihood and even futures for a chance at freedom from the tyranny of the EU you have "suffered"? "The general BREXIT approach to the economy is normally to deny that there is any possibility of an economic down turn due to BREXIT, then to belittle and denigrate any experts who point out there might me and finally, when the weight of evidence and argument proves overwhelming, to admit that 'things will be tough' but it will be worth it. They never really say how it will be worth it. | |||
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"I voted remain, but Labour's position of Britain voted leave, get over it, and looking beyond EU membership for how we protect workers rights and human rights is the right one. Brexit is... whatever we make of it. I was actallu surprised by Macron's election (he was standing against a fascist) but I don't think liberal complacency that qe can get back to normal will hold out. I think that liberal/centrist politics are ill-equipped to deal with the onslaught of the far right, with reactionary politics in general. Think of the EU's newest proposedmembers.... Umraine and Turkey.... both of which have becomemore authoritarian in the last couple of years. I seriously can't imagine mainland Europe accepting Turkey's political dissidents and LGBT rwfugees, given the anti-immigrant culture that has developed across Europe. The main reason behond Turkey's membership being that it was good for the German economy,which trickles down to everyone in the EU, yeah right? If Germany, which made such a big concerted effort at Vergangenheitsbewältigung who proper know the horrors of fascism, can't keep a lid on fascism, what hope is there for the rest of us? This is not a rant about free movenent. Far from it. But our system is broken if mogration to the most developed nations is incentivises workers to move to Western Europe, by virtue of pay and condirions beong shit in their home contry. The Poles, for example fought very hard against Soviet occupation, and deserve far more credit for that than the western narrative of "we brought them down via the space race. They did not ask for neoliberalism... what they really wanted was a less authoritarian socialism. The fact is the EU is centred on the economies of France and Germany, and formerly the UK. These national economies do notserve their people, but a pan-European elite, which, the further you move from centre to periphery, the less the people as a whole, are served. Brilliantly well put observations "and how's does that differ from the UK economy? | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
If you have a second read of my post you'll notice I didnt once say that I thought the UK would stay. What I did say was that the negotiations are unfolding exactly the way I, and others, said they would months ago. The UK team are unprepared. The EU team is outmanouevering them. The EU is taking a hard stance and their primary aim is to make Brexit such a bad choice that the UK will change its mind or return in the future.
Im not making a prediction on whether the EU will succeed in stopping Brexit. But it is clearly their aim with their negotiation tactics so far combined with this announcement that theres a way back for the UK. And that means the Brexit deal is going to suck and if the UK accepts it then things are going to get very very bad. If they have no deal it is worse.
And although you might keep repeating that Brexit is inevitable it quite obviously isnt. If some earth shattering information came out tomorrow and 90% of people in the UK were against Brexit it would clearly not happen. 80% it wouldnt happen. 70% still no Brexit. Under 60%? Maybe it happens, maybe not. If you think the non binding referendum has become binding you're wrong. It all hinges on public support, and the labour/tory vote totals dont count. Its support for Brexit that matters and if it hits 65%+ against then it will be off. Guaranteed. Whether that happens or not is a completely different story.
You said and i quote... " the EU are obviously confident of holding the bloc together". The UK are currently in the bloc so you suggested the UK would stay in the block if the bloc holds together. It won't happen and the UK is leaving the bloc and will leave the EU. That means the bloc won't hold together and the bloc will be splitting when the UK leaves. It's also no good trying to scaremonger me into wanting to remain or even to have a soft brexit, I've always been in favour of hard brexit and I'd be very happy with leaving the EU on no deal. A complete clean break with the EU is what I'd prefer, where we pay no exit fee, not a single penny, and don't pay anymore contribution fees in future. We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome.
We don't automatically get a seat on the WTO. In order to get a seat on the WTO we have to submit to it are general terms of trade. These then have to he approved by the rest of the members of the WTO, which includes the EU, before we can become a member and take our seat.
It's been obvious from many of your past posts that you know little and understand even less about how EU trade works. It's now becoming pretty obvious that you understand and know even less about how world trade works."Afghanistan recently gained WTO membership. In fact it's difficult to think of a non-hostile country not in it Britain is already a member of the WTO but is presently represented by the EU Britain already meets all standards, requirements and criteria and is a major economic power On what grounds would Britain's membership be rejected? | |||
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"I voted remain, but Labour's position of Britain voted leave, get over it, and looking beyond EU membership for how we protect workers rights and human rights is the right one. Brexit is... whatever we make of it. I was actallu surprised by Macron's election (he was standing against a fascist) but I don't think liberal complacency that qe can get back to normal will hold out. I think that liberal/centrist politics are ill-equipped to deal with the onslaught of the far right, with reactionary politics in general. Think of the EU's newest proposedmembers.... Umraine and Turkey.... both of which have becomemore authoritarian in the last couple of years. I seriously can't imagine mainland Europe accepting Turkey's political dissidents and LGBT rwfugees, given the anti-immigrant culture that has developed across Europe. The main reason behond Turkey's membership being that it was good for the German economy,which trickles down to everyone in the EU, yeah right? If Germany, which made such a big concerted effort at Vergangenheitsbewältigung who proper know the horrors of fascism, can't keep a lid on fascism, what hope is there for the rest of us? This is not a rant about free movenent. Far from it. But our system is broken if mogration to the most developed nations is incentivises workers to move to Western Europe, by virtue of pay and condirions beong shit in their home contry. The Poles, for example fought very hard against Soviet occupation, and deserve far more credit for that than the western narrative of "we brought them down via the space race. They did not ask for neoliberalism... what they really wanted was a less authoritarian socialism. The fact is the EU is centred on the economies of France and Germany, and formerly the UK. These national economies do notserve their people, but a pan-European elite, which, the further you move from centre to periphery, the less the people as a whole, are served. Brilliantly well put observations and how's does that differ from the UK economy?". Your not quite making yourself clear, are you asking me or the person I replied to? | |||
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"Macron isnt Trump, he's not gone off half cocked and made a major announcement like this without consultation. The EU is organised which will no doubt look strange and unfamiliar to Brexiters. Macrons the one announcing this because Merkels gonna be bad cop and Macron gets to be good cop. The Brexit negotiations are infolding like a lot of us predicted. The UK negotiating team is being out manouevered and put in its place early with the showdown over the timetable, the EU is going to offer a terrible deal that will be completely unpalatable in order to get the UK to stay or if they accept so that they'll return. The clueless can still go on and on that no deal is better than a bad one, but anyone who knows even a little knows thats not true. No deal will mean economic devastation for the UK. After Mays fiasco of an election the EU are obviously confident they are going to keep the bloc together. You are completely deluded if you think the UK is going to stay in the EU. Article 50 has been triggered and there is no going back. Conservatives and Labour combined just got over 80% of the overall vote in the general election on Brexit manifestos to Leave the EU. Theresa May told Macron Brexit negotiations will start next week (was planned to start on Monday but may be delayed 2 or 3 days now, Wow big deal )
Even hard line Remainers like Tory Ken Clarke and Lib dem Norman Lamb have been saying on the news stations in recent days that Brexit cannot be stopped and is now inevitable.
If you have a second read of my post you'll notice I didnt once say that I thought the UK would stay. What I did say was that the negotiations are unfolding exactly the way I, and others, said they would months ago. The UK team are unprepared. The EU team is outmanouevering them. The EU is taking a hard stance and their primary aim is to make Brexit such a bad choice that the UK will change its mind or return in the future.
Im not making a prediction on whether the EU will succeed in stopping Brexit. But it is clearly their aim with their negotiation tactics so far combined with this announcement that theres a way back for the UK. And that means the Brexit deal is going to suck and if the UK accepts it then things are going to get very very bad. If they have no deal it is worse.
And although you might keep repeating that Brexit is inevitable it quite obviously isnt. If some earth shattering information came out tomorrow and 90% of people in the UK were against Brexit it would clearly not happen. 80% it wouldnt happen. 70% still no Brexit. Under 60%? Maybe it happens, maybe not. If you think the non binding referendum has become binding you're wrong. It all hinges on public support, and the labour/tory vote totals dont count. Its support for Brexit that matters and if it hits 65%+ against then it will be off. Guaranteed. Whether that happens or not is a completely different story.
You said and i quote... " the EU are obviously confident of holding the bloc together". The UK are currently in the bloc so you suggested the UK would stay in the block if the bloc holds together. It won't happen and the UK is leaving the bloc and will leave the EU. That means the bloc won't hold together and the bloc will be splitting when the UK leaves. It's also no good trying to scaremonger me into wanting to remain or even to have a soft brexit, I've always been in favour of hard brexit and I'd be very happy with leaving the EU on no deal. A complete clean break with the EU is what I'd prefer, where we pay no exit fee, not a single penny, and don't pay anymore contribution fees in future. We leave the single market, the ECJ and the customs union and take back full control of our borders and our laws. We will take our seat back at the WTO and trade with the EU on WTO rules, the EU will have to comply and trade with us on WTO rules under international law. We can immediately start negotiating and signing free trade deals all around the rest of the world free from the hindrances of the EU bureaucratic monstrosity and red tape fiasco it has sadly become. So yeah no deal is better than a bad deal, I say bring it on and would be happy with that outcome.
We don't automatically get a seat on the WTO. In order to get a seat on the WTO we have to submit to it are general terms of trade. These then have to he approved by the rest of the members of the WTO, which includes the EU, before we can become a member and take our seat.
It's been obvious from many of your past posts that you know little and understand even less about how EU trade works. It's now becoming pretty obvious that you understand and know even less about how world trade works.
Afghanistan recently gained WTO membership. In fact it's difficult to think of a non-hostile country not in it
Britain is already a member of the WTO but is presently represented by the EU
Britain already meets all standards, requirements and criteria and is a major economic power
On what grounds would Britain's membership be rejected?
"I never said it would be. I just pointed out that, after we leave the EU we'll have to go through a process to become members of the WTO. It's not automatic. It's also worth noting that we can't actually start the process of joining the WTO until after we have actually left the EU. Which means no deal does actually mean we would be leaving the EU with no trade arrangements with anyone, even on WTO terms. | |||
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"Good news, macron said that the doors remains open for the uk to remain in the eu, so if britain changes their mind, it is not too late to rejoin, the offer is open until the brexit negotiations ends. What is your thoughts of it? Especially now that corbyn will hold an election in the autumn, anything could happen "Jeremy Corbyn is not in a position to call a general election, and for a number of reasons. A piece of legislation called 'The Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011' specifies that each parliament will run for a period of 5 years. There are only two ways in which an early general election can be called. We saw one of these methods put into action when the Prime Minister called for a vote in the House of Commons The other is for a vote of no confidence to be brought against the government. This is highly unlikely though as the whole point of Theresa May striking up a deal with the DUP is in order to prevent this. With the DUP, the conservatives have a working majority of 328 seats. As Sinn Fein do not take their seats at Westminster, and as the DUP are siding with the Conservatves, even with the support of ALL the other parties, the most number of votes Corbyn can hope to achieve is 308. The government is committed to enacting the will of the people as expressed in last years referendum. Sorry to burst your bubble Shag, but Remain lost and Labour lost. | |||
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"Good news, macron said that the doors remains open for the uk to remain in the eu, so if britain changes their mind, it is not too late to rejoin, the offer is open until the brexit negotiations ends. What is your thoughts of it? Especially now that corbyn will hold an election in the autumn, anything could happen
Jeremy Corbyn is not in a position to call a general election, and for a number of reasons.
A piece of legislation called 'The Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011' specifies that each parliament will run for a period of 5 years.
There are only two ways in which an early general election can be called.
We saw one of these methods put into action when the Prime Minister called for a vote in the House of Commons
The other is for a vote of no confidence to be brought against the government. This is highly unlikely though as the whole point of Theresa May striking up a deal with the DUP is in order to prevent this.
With the DUP, the conservatives have a working majority of 328 seats.
As Sinn Fein do not take their seats at Westminster, and as the DUP are siding with the Conservatves, even with the support of ALL the other parties, the most number of votes Corbyn can hope to achieve is 308.
The government is committed to enacting the will of the people as expressed in last years referendum.
Sorry to burst your bubble Shag, but Remain lost and Labour lost."I agree with you about an election however I think you're wrong on the government being able to deliver a hard BREXIT. The DUP don't want it and, more importantly, 13 Scottish Conservative MPs don't want it. Added to that the reality that the only people who actually believe that the will of the people is for an economically suicide hard BREXIT are a few hardline BREXITers who no are no longer the only people in charge any more. Hard BREXIT is dead. It may still twitch a bit through the voices of Davies, Gove and Fox. It might even let out a post death gasp through May herself but rest assured hard BREXIT is dead. | |||
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" Jeremy Corbyn is not in a position to call a general election, and for a number of reasons. A piece of legislation called 'The Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011' specifies that each parliament will run for a period of 5 years. There are only two ways in which an early general election can be called. We saw one of these methods put into action when the Prime Minister called for a vote in the House of Commons The other is for a vote of no confidence to be brought against the government. This is highly unlikely though as the whole point of Theresa May striking up a deal with the DUP is in order to prevent this. With the DUP, the conservatives have a working majority of 328 seats. As Sinn Fein do not take their seats at Westminster, and as the DUP are siding with the Conservatves, even with the support of ALL the other parties, the most number of votes Corbyn can hope to achieve is 308. The government is committed to enacting the will of the people as expressed in last years referendum. Sorry to burst your bubble Shag, but Remain lost and Labour lost." Obviously with the support of the DUP they wont pass a motion of no confidence, the problem is if the DUP stop supporting the Tories which is always a possibility with any coalition government. | |||
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"Good news, macron said that the doors remains open for the uk to remain in the eu, so if britain changes their mind, it is not too late to rejoin, the offer is open until the brexit negotiations ends. What is your thoughts of it? Especially now that corbyn will hold an election in the autumn, anything could happen
Jeremy Corbyn is not in a position to call a general election, and for a number of reasons.
A piece of legislation called 'The Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011' specifies that each parliament will run for a period of 5 years.
There are only two ways in which an early general election can be called.
We saw one of these methods put into action when the Prime Minister called for a vote in the House of Commons
The other is for a vote of no confidence to be brought against the government. This is highly unlikely though as the whole point of Theresa May striking up a deal with the DUP is in order to prevent this.
With the DUP, the conservatives have a working majority of 328 seats.
As Sinn Fein do not take their seats at Westminster, and as the DUP are siding with the Conservatves, even with the support of ALL the other parties, the most number of votes Corbyn can hope to achieve is 308.
The government is committed to enacting the will of the people as expressed in last years referendum.
Sorry to burst your bubble Shag, but Remain lost and Labour lost.
I agree with you about an election however I think you're wrong on the government being able to deliver a hard BREXIT. The DUP don't want it and, more importantly, 13 Scottish Conservative MPs don't want it. Added to that the reality that the only people who actually believe that the will of the people is for an economically suicide hard BREXIT are a few hardline BREXITers who no are no longer the only people in charge any more. Hard BREXIT is dead. It may still twitch a bit through the voices of Davies, Gove and Fox. It might even let out a post death gasp through May herself but rest assured hard BREXIT is dead."I didn't say anything about hard brexit so how can you either agree or disagree with something I haven't acutally said .  | |||
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"Good news, macron said that the doors remains open for the uk to remain in the eu, so if britain changes their mind, it is not too late to rejoin, the offer is open until the brexit negotiations ends. What is your thoughts of it? Especially now that corbyn will hold an election in the autumn, anything could happen
Jeremy Corbyn is not in a position to call a general election, and for a number of reasons.
A piece of legislation called 'The Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011' specifies that each parliament will run for a period of 5 years.
There are only two ways in which an early general election can be called.
We saw one of these methods put into action when the Prime Minister called for a vote in the House of Commons
The other is for a vote of no confidence to be brought against the government. This is highly unlikely though as the whole point of Theresa May striking up a deal with the DUP is in order to prevent this.
With the DUP, the conservatives have a working majority of 328 seats.
As Sinn Fein do not take their seats at Westminster, and as the DUP are siding with the Conservatves, even with the support of ALL the other parties, the most number of votes Corbyn can hope to achieve is 308.
The government is committed to enacting the will of the people as expressed in last years referendum.
Sorry to burst your bubble Shag, but Remain lost and Labour lost.
I agree with you about an election however I think you're wrong on the government being able to deliver a hard BREXIT. The DUP don't want it and, more importantly, 13 Scottish Conservative MPs don't want it. Added to that the reality that the only people who actually believe that the will of the people is for an economically suicide hard BREXIT are a few hardline BREXITers who no are no longer the only people in charge any more. Hard BREXIT is dead. It may still twitch a bit through the voices of Davies, Gove and Fox. It might even let out a post death gasp through May herself but rest assured hard BREXIT is dead.
I didn't say anything about hard brexit so how can you either agree or disagree with something I haven't acutally said .
"If you mean 'delivering the will of the people' as delivering the sort of hard, economically suicidal BREXIT that May said she was going to deliver and is the phrase often used by UKIPers and BREXITers to defend their crazy version of leaving the EU, then I do disagree with you that that is likely to happen now. If how ever you meant something else by the phrase 'delivering the will of the people' then I don't know whether i agree with you or not unless you can tell us all what you actually mean by the phrase. | |||
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"I am beginning to wonder about the sanity of remainers,we are leaving the EU for better or worse so stop dreaming and work towards a successful UK or go live in the EU and stop moaning" Living in the EU. But I'm not moaning about leaving. I'm moaning about the clarity. Doesn't that bother anyone? | |||
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"I am beginning to wonder about the sanity of remainers,we are leaving the EU for better or worse so stop dreaming and work towards a successful UK or go live in the EU and stop moaning" You worry about the sanity of people who are trying to steer the UK towards the most successful future possible, but not the people who say hard Brexit at any cost, no matter how many jobs are lost, how much the economy suffers etc. You do realise that if the economy tanks again that suicides go up, domestic abuse increases, child poverty increases, alcohol, drug and mental health issues increase. "It has to be a hard brexit with paid access to the market because anything else requires free movement of people/labour and that's what a of voted for. When it was the EEC it was about trade but has been perverted into migration over time " You wont be able to pay for access to the single market without free movement of people. Thats not a thing thats going to happen. The EU has been through this before with the Swiss. You can have free movement of people, goods and services or not. You might as well be asking for unicorns as ask for paid access to the single market. | |||
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"I am beginning to wonder about the sanity of remainers,we are leaving the EU for better or worse so stop dreaming and work towards a successful UK or go live in the EU and stop moaning Living in the EU. But I'm not moaning about leaving. I'm moaning about the clarity. Doesn't that bother anyone?" It is the bit I just don't understand. If I had voted leave then I would be livid that nearly a year down the line and still nothing whatsoever has been clarified. I mean as a remain-voter, I'm pissed off we are leaving at all. But as a leave-voter I would be pissed off that still no-one knows what is going on. I just don't understand why they are just so happy to accept it. -Matt | |||
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"It has to be a hard brexit with paid access to the market because anything else requires free movement of people/labour and that's what a of voted for. When it was the EEC it was about trade but has been perverted into migration over time " Not it wasn't. The ambition of the Common Market was to have common policies, laws and arrangements for goods, money and human beings. | |||
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"I am beginning to wonder about the sanity of remainers,we are leaving the EU for better or worse so stop dreaming and work towards a successful UK or go live in the EU and stop moaning" I'll tell you what: Why don't you crazy BREXITers go and live in some part of the British Isles that's not part of the EU. And if you can't think of anywhere then you clearly don't know Britain and it's Isles as well as you should. This is just typical of the BREXITer attitude to democracy and discussion. It was OK for them to wing and moan for 40 years when they lost the first referendum but, because they narrowly won one vote over a year ago, they think everyone has to now agree with them, shut-up or leave. Well that's not going to happen. This is my country and I will continue to fight against a policy that can have no possible benefit for it until it actually happens and, if it does happen, it'll fight to have it reversed. The reality is is that a hard BREXIT is already dead, you may not realise it yet but you will soon, and, as the reality of what any form of BREXIT actually means, there is still a good chances that BREXIT itself will be dead to soon. Maybe one day you'll understand that there is a little more to being a patriot than waving a Union Jack, singing Rule Britannia and telling foreigners or those who don't agree with you to shut-up or leave. | |||
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"It has to be a hard brexit with paid access to the market because anything else requires free movement of people/labour and that's what a of voted for. When it was the EEC it was about trade but has been perverted into migration over time " Both those statements are simply not true and are part of the BREXIT lie that the referendum was thought on. The EEC wad never just a trading block. It was always about ever closer political, social and economic integration across the peoples of Europe. This was made clear by both sides in their arguments and literature at the time of the 1975 referendum. It's also not true that we cannot control immigration because of the free movement rules of the EU. We have the right, as does any EU/EEA/EFTA country, to limit people coming into this country who do not have jobs or do not adequate health insurance to cover their medical requirements. We also have the right under free movement rules to tell people from the other member states to leave if, after 90 days, they can not show they can adequately support themselves and their dependants. Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Norway enforce these rules, we could to. All you BREXITers already know that the £350 million a week for the NHS wad a lie. What makes you think that they told you the truth about anything else? | |||
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"It has to be a hard brexit with paid access to the market because anything else requires free movement of people/labour and that's what a of voted for. When it was the EEC it was about trade but has been perverted into migration over time Not it wasn't. The ambition of the Common Market was to have common policies, laws and arrangements for goods, money and human beings." BREXITers seem to think that you can have a Common Market without having a common set of rules or alternatively that when people voted to remain in the EEC in the first referendum they were too stupid to realise it. | |||
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"I am beginning to wonder about the sanity of remainers,we are leaving the EU for better or worse so stop dreaming and work towards a successful UK or go live in the EU and stop moaning" .....Most have. | |||
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"This whole sad episode is a way of saying by by pound and hello Euro to the UK.We have been done over by all of our politicians Good job they are not in North Korea otherwise there would now be a huge vacancy list for their jobs Both May Cornyn a and others say they want the best for the country .Well here's the answer stop bickering like children and put their personal ideologies behind them and show Europe we have some balls and bulldog spirit .To which we will not be bullied by blood sucking Eurcrats " Heres the thing, balls and bulldog spirit will get you absolutely nowhere. They dont matter in the slightest, its just empty words that sound good. Imagine walking up to your neighbour and asking her to trade her house for a chocolate bar. Doesnt matter if you sing Rule Britannia in her face she's still not going to do it because its a terrible deal. The EU isnt bullying you. Its saying we want x, y, z and Britain are saying x, y, and z are already off the table because of Brexit but give us everything we want anyway. Then Brexiters cry because they arent going to get it. | |||
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"There's one nasty moaning old man on here bless him lol" Another excellent post full of insight, logic and well thought out points. And at 47 I wouldnt go calling anyone else "old".  | |||
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"This whole sad episode is a way of saying by by pound and hello Euro to the UK.We have been done over by all of our politicians Good job they are not in North Korea otherwise there would now be a huge vacancy list for their jobs Both May Cornyn a and others say they want the best for the country .Well here's the answer stop bickering like children and put their personal ideologies behind them and show Europe we have some balls and bulldog spirit .To which we will not be bullied by blood sucking Eurcrats Heres the thing, balls and bulldog spirit will get you absolutely nowhere. They dont matter in the slightest, its just empty words that sound good. Imagine walking up to your neighbour and asking her to trade her house for a chocolate bar. Doesnt matter if you sing Rule Britannia in her face she's still not going to do it because its a terrible deal. The EU isnt bullying you. Its saying we want x, y, z and Britain are saying x, y, and z are already off the table because of Brexit but give us everything we want anyway. Then Brexiters cry because they arent going to get it." You seem to do a lot more crying than any Brexiter. Get a grip man | |||
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"I know I'm old buddy but I'm not the one crying on here every day about stupid ppl who voted leave . Your an Irish guy and your more upset than anyone else on here all you do is AV digs at the Brits never read one post on here were someone as ad a dig at the Irish " That is because the Irish weren't stupid enough to vote to leave the EU! 
-Matt | |||
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"I know I'm old buddy but I'm not the one crying on here every day about stupid ppl who voted leave . Your an Irish guy and your more upset than anyone else on here all you do is AV digs at the Brits never read one post on here were someone as ad a dig at the Irish That is because the Irish weren't stupid enough to vote to leave the EU!
-Matt"If they did, then they would keep having votes until they got the result that the EU wanted....they do have history on this | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities "Yet you think you are the voice of the losers,get over it.WE are leaving the EU,it matters not what shit you keep spouting  | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities "I think you are just pissed of that Ireland arent leaving | |||
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"I read all this anger to what I said previously but they forget one thing.The EU is falling apart and may disintigrate within the next few years,best to jump ship before the whole thing crumbles and it will." it may do but then again it may not.. some on here were saying post the referendum that the far right would win in the Netherlands, France and Germany.. the first 2 it has not happened.. | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities
I think you are just pissed of that Ireland arent leaving "The Irish just keep voting again and again until they give the answer the EU wants, as has previously happened there. The UK are not willing to let themselves be walked over so easily, the UK has more backbone. | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities
I think you are just pissed of that Ireland arent leaving
The Irish just keep voting again and again until they give the answer the EU wants, as has previously happened there. The UK are not willing to let themselves be walked over so easily, the UK has more backbone. "That's right, strong and stable all the way. | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities Yet you think you are the voice of the losers,get over it.WE are leaving the EU,it matters not what shit you keep spouting "I just love the way BREXITers get so annoyed when they no their loosing. Do they really think that those who think they are wrong are going suddenly shut-up just because they're better at throwing insults and abuse than actually making any sort of coherent argument. | |||
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"I read all this anger to what I said previously but they forget one thing.The EU is falling apart and may disintigrate within the next few years,best to jump ship before the whole thing crumbles and it will." Yet another BREXIT lie. The EU is not crumbling. In fact since the BREXIT vote it looks far more like the UK is crumbling with possible infyRefs in Scotland and Ireland firmly on the agenda. But, even if the EU did fail, how is that any benefit to us in the UK and how does us leaving the EU in anyway protect us? | |||
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"I think it says a lot that the only thing you hear from Brexiters is: Stop criticising. We're out, accept it. Because theres still no realistic plan beyond "Trust May, she won't fuck it up." Which rings incredibly hollow after she's fucked up her own re election. Over a year after Brexit and no one can point to a realistic way that Brexit can be a success. While it worries some, others just want to stop talking about it because there are no good answers. Sticking your head in the sand isnt a strategy and its part of a healthy democracy to question leaders and the direction of the country. 3 days until negotiating starts and May still hasnt sent over the positioning papers. Her cabinet still hasnt decided what their goals are and theres threats of cabinet quitting either way May decides to go. If any one approached serious negotiations like this it would rightly be labelled incompetent and as putting the UK completely on the backfoot, but Brexiters dont want anyone to talk about it much less criticise it. Does anyone think Brexit is going to be a success and have an actual credible way it can happen?" You don't seriously expect to get a credible answer to that question do you? | |||
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"I think it says a lot that the only thing you hear from Brexiters is: Stop criticising. We're out, accept it. Because theres still no realistic plan beyond "Trust May, she won't fuck it up." Which rings incredibly hollow after she's fucked up her own re election. Over a year after Brexit and no one can point to a realistic way that Brexit can be a success. While it worries some, others just want to stop talking about it because there are no good answers. Sticking your head in the sand isnt a strategy and its part of a healthy democracy to question leaders and the direction of the country. 3 days until negotiating starts and May still hasnt sent over the positioning papers. Her cabinet still hasnt decided what their goals are and theres threats of cabinet quitting either way May decides to go. If any one approached serious negotiations like this it would rightly be labelled incompetent and as putting the UK completely on the backfoot, but Brexiters dont want anyone to talk about it much less criticise it. Does anyone think Brexit is going to be a success and have an actual credible way it can happen? You don't seriously expect to get a credible answer to that question do you?" No.of course not. The closest approximation to an argument for a successful brexit on here has been "But BMWs!!!!" Until it was pointed out that the German car manufacturers lobby group was actually pushing for a tough deal for the UK. If you understand gravity you dont step off a 10 storey building. If you understand Brexit and what it entails then you're not for it. Thats why the only pro brexiters are the ones who cant articulate a decent argument for its success. | |||
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"I still maintain that a bunch hardcore Brexiters would make the basis for a great sitcom... Like David Brent in the office, totally lacking in self awareness # brexit means brexit #suck it up, we're leaving " I dunno, Black Mirror is pretty close, isn't it? -Matt | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities Yet you think you are the voice of the losers,get over it.WE are leaving the EU,it matters not what shit you keep spouting
I just love the way BREXITers get so annoyed when they no their loosing. Do they really think that those who think they are wrong are going suddenly shut-up just because they're better at throwing insults and abuse than actually making any sort of coherent argument."I,m not annoyed,just fed up with the "we could possibly stay in" brigade.A vote was cast and we are leaving,but if it helps you get to sleep at night,carry on.I have no reason to get upset or come out with unreasonable facts,if David Cameron or George Osborne carried on like you they would be out of a job,oh hang on ,they are | |||
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"I think it says a lot that the only thing you hear from Brexiters is: Stop criticising. We're out, accept it. Because theres still no realistic plan beyond "Trust May, she won't fuck it up." Which rings incredibly hollow after she's fucked up her own re election. Over a year after Brexit and no one can point to a realistic way that Brexit can be a success. While it worries some, others just want to stop talking about it because there are no good answers. Sticking your head in the sand isnt a strategy and its part of a healthy democracy to question leaders and the direction of the country. 3 days until negotiating starts and May still hasnt sent over the positioning papers. Her cabinet still hasnt decided what their goals are and theres threats of cabinet quitting either way May decides to go. If any one approached serious negotiations like this it would rightly be labelled incompetent and as putting the UK completely on the backfoot, but Brexiters dont want anyone to talk about it much less criticise it. Does anyone think Brexit is going to be a success and have an actual credible way it can happen?" Brexit will be measured in success in a number of ways that have been set out umpteen times before but remoaners like you just refuse to listen, and take it on board, instead you just put your fingers in your ears and go la la la la la la la la I can't hear you. It was set out very clearly during the EU referendum and again by Theresa May in her Lancaster house Brexit speech. A successful Brexit will..... 1. Take back full control of our borders and end the free movement of people from the EU. 2. Enable the UK to take its seat at the WTO again and make our own trade deals all around the world, increasing trade. Our trade as a percentage has been declining with the EU for the last 20 years and it has been growing with countries outside, the direction of travel is clear and it makes sense for us to focus on where our growth markets are now. 3. Reclaim our fishing rights and our territorial fishing waters from the EU and rejuvenate the British fishing industry which has been decimated by the EU. We get an extremely bad deal from the EU on fishing. 4. Maintain trade with the EU as much as is possible within the scope of Brexit. If the EU refuse to play ball then you leave us no option but to revert to WTO terms which the EU will have to comply with under International law. 5. Ending vast extortionate EU budget contributions each year and taking back control of our own money. The EU is incredibly and notoriously wasteful (travelling circus of the EU parliament anyone) that money will be better spent here in the UK 6. Taking back full Control of our laws where UK law is supreme here over EU law and restoring the full sovereignty of our country and our parliament which the EU has watered Down over the years. This is what the majority of the British people want as expressed in the EU referendum last year and again in the general election which Theresa May and the conservatives just won. Sooner you get used to it the better because this is what will happen. | |||
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"I think it says a lot that the only thing you hear from Brexiters is: Stop criticising. We're out, accept it. Because theres still no realistic plan beyond "Trust May, she won't fuck it up." Which rings incredibly hollow after she's fucked up her own re election. Over a year after Brexit and no one can point to a realistic way that Brexit can be a success. While it worries some, others just want to stop talking about it because there are no good answers. Sticking your head in the sand isnt a strategy and its part of a healthy democracy to question leaders and the direction of the country. 3 days until negotiating starts and May still hasnt sent over the positioning papers. Her cabinet still hasnt decided what their goals are and theres threats of cabinet quitting either way May decides to go. If any one approached serious negotiations like this it would rightly be labelled incompetent and as putting the UK completely on the backfoot, but Brexiters dont want anyone to talk about it much less criticise it. Does anyone think Brexit is going to be a success and have an actual credible way it can happen? You don't seriously expect to get a credible answer to that question do you?" Just gave one, see previous post. | |||
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"Love that Brexiters think any disagreement is crying. Brexit will probably be a net benefit for Ireland. Shockingly enough Im on a politics forum because....I like talking politics. Amazing but true. Dont worry, Ive already submitted this to Ripleys "Believe It Or Not". And given that this happens to be a largely British userbase and the election and Brexit are the issues of the day are you surprised Im discussing those topics? Well, actually, you probably are. Logic, cause and effect and rational thinking arent your best qualities Yet you think you are the voice of the losers,get over it.WE are leaving the EU,it matters not what shit you keep spouting
I just love the way BREXITers get so annoyed when they no their loosing. Do they really think that those who think they are wrong are going suddenly shut-up just because they're better at throwing insults and abuse than actually making any sort of coherent argument."We're not loosing though we're winning. Brexit won the EU referendum last year and Theresa May and the conservatives won the general election last week. It's Remain that has already lost. | |||
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"I read all this anger to what I said previously but they forget one thing.The EU is falling apart and may disintigrate within the next few years,best to jump ship before the whole thing crumbles and it will. Yet another BREXIT lie. The EU is not crumbling. In fact since the BREXIT vote it looks far more like the UK is crumbling with possible infyRefs in Scotland and Ireland firmly on the agenda. But, even if the EU did fail, how is that any benefit to us in the UK and how does us leaving the EU in anyway protect us?" It's a bit rich of you to get on your high horse about lies when you just told a whopper in that post. Indyref in Scotland is no longer on the agenda if one good thing came out of the general election last week that is the issue of indyref2 has been taken firmly off the table. Leaving the EU and increasing trade and trade links with the rest of the world outside will help us in the event of the EU crumbling, this is more than obvious. | |||
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"I read all this anger to what I said previously but they forget one thing.The EU is falling apart and may disintigrate within the next few years,best to jump ship before the whole thing crumbles and it will. Yet another BREXIT lie. The EU is not crumbling. In fact since the BREXIT vote it looks far more like the UK is crumbling with possible infyRefs in Scotland and Ireland firmly on the agenda. But, even if the EU did fail, how is that any benefit to us in the UK and how does us leaving the EU in anyway protect us? It's a bit rich of you to get on your high horse about lies when you just told a whopper in that post. Indyref in Scotland is no longer on the agenda if one good thing came out of the general election last week that is the issue of indyref2 has been taken firmly off the table. Leaving the EU and increasing trade and trade links with the rest of the world outside will help us in the event of the EU crumbling, this is more than obvious. " I'm not in favour of another Scottish IndyRef or Scottish independence but to say it's off the table now is either a complete lack of understanding of the law and constitutional position, simple mathematics or both. The SNP got 35 of the 59 seats; that's 60% of the seats. The constitutional requirement of a vote in Holyrood has already been met. Unless Holyrood changes its mind all Westminster can do is delay it. The general election result in Scotland decreasing SNP's seats from 56 to 35 may have made an indyRef a little less likely but it's definitely not off the table. | |||
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"I think it says a lot that the only thing you hear from Brexiters is: Stop criticising. We're out, accept it. Because theres still no realistic plan beyond "Trust May, she won't fuck it up." Which rings incredibly hollow after she's fucked up her own re election. Over a year after Brexit and no one can point to a realistic way that Brexit can be a success. While it worries some, others just want to stop talking about it because there are no good answers. Sticking your head in the sand isnt a strategy and its part of a healthy democracy to question leaders and the direction of the country. 3 days until negotiating starts and May still hasnt sent over the positioning papers. Her cabinet still hasnt decided what their goals are and theres threats of cabinet quitting either way May decides to go. If any one approached serious negotiations like this it would rightly be labelled incompetent and as putting the UK completely on the backfoot, but Brexiters dont want anyone to talk about it much less criticise it. Does anyone think Brexit is going to be a success and have an actual credible way it can happen? Brexit will be measured in success in a number of ways that have been set out umpteen times before but remoaners like you just refuse to listen, and take it on board, instead you just put your fingers in your ears and go la la la la la la la la I can't hear you. It was set out very clearly during the EU referendum and again by Theresa May in her Lancaster house Brexit speech. A successful Brexit will..... 1. Take back full control of our borders and end the free movement of people from the EU. 2. Enable the UK to take its seat at the WTO again and make our own trade deals all around the world, increasing trade. Our trade as a percentage has been declining with the EU for the last 20 years and it has been growing with countries outside, the direction of travel is clear and it makes sense for us to focus on where our growth markets are now. 3. Reclaim our fishing rights and our territorial fishing waters from the EU and rejuvenate the British fishing industry which has been decimated by the EU. We get an extremely bad deal from the EU on fishing. 4. Maintain trade with the EU as much as is possible within the scope of Brexit. If the EU refuse to play ball then you leave us no option but to revert to WTO terms which the EU will have to comply with under International law. 5. Ending vast extortionate EU budget contributions each year and taking back control of our own money. The EU is incredibly and notoriously wasteful (travelling circus of the EU parliament anyone) that money will be better spent here in the UK 6. Taking back full Control of our laws where UK law is supreme here over EU law and restoring the full sovereignty of our country and our parliament which the EU has watered Down over the years. This is what the majority of the British people want as expressed in the EU referendum last year and again in the general election which Theresa May and the conservatives just won. Sooner you get used to it the better because this is what will happen. " Well you have a clear and coherent set of goals which is more than your prime minister has. But you left out 2 important things. Ones the economy and 2 is how you achieve those goals. 1, 5 and 6 all rule out a Norway or Swiss type model. How is that going to be achieved when many conservatives, the Scottish conservatives and DUP dont favour that hard a Brexit? 2 means you have to negotiate comprehensive trade deals with all of the EU, US, China, India, Pakistan, Canada, UAE, Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Australia,Russia, Singapore and South Africa in the next 19 months. And those are only the countries with £5bn+ of trade with the UK. That leaves over 40bn worth of trade with other countries still to be negotiated. Not to mention that WTO terms will devastate your economy and reduce trade with the EU significantly. Consumers in the EU arent going to pay premiums for British products. How are you reasonably going to negotiate better trade deals, that increase trade while also protecting British business and jobs when you have a much smaller market to offer than the EU did? How is the British economy and welfare system going to cope going forward? The UK stands to lose 100,000+ jobs just when euro clearing leaves the UK. While obviously accepting free movement of people, EU laws and standards and/or having to pay contributions would all mean Brexit was a failure, if the economy enters a recession with unemployment increasing, businesses closing and trade plummeting then that will also make Brexit a failure. | |||
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"I think it says a lot that the only thing you hear from Brexiters is: Stop criticising. We're out, accept it. Because theres still no realistic plan beyond "Trust May, she won't fuck it up." Which rings incredibly hollow after she's fucked up her own re election. Over a year after Brexit and no one can point to a realistic way that Brexit can be a success. While it worries some, others just want to stop talking about it because there are no good answers. Sticking your head in the sand isnt a strategy and its part of a healthy democracy to question leaders and the direction of the country. 3 days until negotiating starts and May still hasnt sent over the positioning papers. Her cabinet still hasnt decided what their goals are and theres threats of cabinet quitting either way May decides to go. If any one approached serious negotiations like this it would rightly be labelled incompetent and as putting the UK completely on the backfoot, but Brexiters dont want anyone to talk about it much less criticise it. Does anyone think Brexit is going to be a success and have an actual credible way it can happen? Brexit will be measured in success in a number of ways that have been set out umpteen times before but remoaners like you just refuse to listen, and take it on board, instead you just put your fingers in your ears and go la la la la la la la la I can't hear you. It was set out very clearly during the EU referendum and again by Theresa May in her Lancaster house Brexit speech. A successful Brexit will..... 1. Take back full control of our borders and end the free movement of people from the EU. 2. Enable the UK to take its seat at the WTO again and make our own trade deals all around the world, increasing trade. Our trade as a percentage has been declining with the EU for the last 20 years and it has been growing with countries outside, the direction of travel is clear and it makes sense for us to focus on where our growth markets are now. 3. Reclaim our fishing rights and our territorial fishing waters from the EU and rejuvenate the British fishing industry which has been decimated by the EU. We get an extremely bad deal from the EU on fishing. 4. Maintain trade with the EU as much as is possible within the scope of Brexit. If the EU refuse to play ball then you leave us no option but to revert to WTO terms which the EU will have to comply with under International law. 5. Ending vast extortionate EU budget contributions each year and taking back control of our own money. The EU is incredibly and notoriously wasteful (travelling circus of the EU parliament anyone) that money will be better spent here in the UK 6. Taking back full Control of our laws where UK law is supreme here over EU law and restoring the full sovereignty of our country and our parliament which the EU has watered Down over the years. This is what the majority of the British people want as expressed in the EU referendum last year and again in the general election which Theresa May and the conservatives just won. Sooner you get used to it the better because this is what will happen. Well you have a clear and coherent set of goals which is more than your prime minister has. But you left out 2 important things. Ones the economy and 2 is how you achieve those goals. 1, 5 and 6 all rule out a Norway or Swiss type model. How is that going to be achieved when many conservatives, the Scottish conservatives and DUP dont favour that hard a Brexit? 2 means you have to negotiate comprehensive trade deals with all of the EU, US, China, India, Pakistan, Canada, UAE, Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Australia,Russia, Singapore and South Africa in the next 19 months. And those are only the countries with £5bn+ of trade with the UK. That leaves over 40bn worth of trade with other countries still to be negotiated. Not to mention that WTO terms will devastate your economy and reduce trade with the EU significantly. Consumers in the EU arent going to pay premiums for British products. How are you reasonably going to negotiate better trade deals, that increase trade while also protecting British business and jobs when you have a much smaller market to offer than the EU did? How is the British economy and welfare system going to cope going forward? The UK stands to lose 100,000+ jobs just when euro clearing leaves the UK. While obviously accepting free movement of people, EU laws and standards and/or having to pay contributions would all mean Brexit was a failure, if the economy enters a recession with unemployment increasing, businesses closing and trade plummeting then that will also make Brexit a failure." First of all the level of your negativity and pessimism is astonishing, I've got an optimistic and positive outlook on life it's clear you are the opposite and have a very pessimistic and negative attitude. Theresa May does have a clear and coherent set of goals, they are the ones i just laid out and she set it out in her brexit speech at Lancaster house earlier this year. On the first point you raise it's looking like the DUP do favour a hard Brexit as it's in the press today a senior Tory has said the DUP fully back Theresa May's Brexit plan to leave the single market AND the customs union. The Scottish conservatives have said they will vote with the party whip In Westminster so this gives Theresa May the majority she needs. WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. In terms of signing new trade deals around the world these can be done much quicker by the UK on a 1 to 1 country basis. Think months rather than years. Australia has done trade deals from start to finish in a matter of months on a 1 to 1 country basis, it's only the EU that takes years to sign trade deals while 27 member countries of the EU squabble amongst themselves and disagree about the terms, frankly we are better off out and getting our own trade deals done much quicker. The 100,000 jobs leaving the UK is yet more scaremongering on your part the answers to that have already been given in detail to you on the scaremongering thread you posted yesterday about it. | |||
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"I read all this anger to what I said previously but they forget one thing.The EU is falling apart and may disintigrate within the next few years,best to jump ship before the whole thing crumbles and it will. Yet another BREXIT lie. The EU is not crumbling. In fact since the BREXIT vote it looks far more like the UK is crumbling with possible infyRefs in Scotland and Ireland firmly on the agenda. But, even if the EU did fail, how is that any benefit to us in the UK and how does us leaving the EU in anyway protect us? It's a bit rich of you to get on your high horse about lies when you just told a whopper in that post. Indyref in Scotland is no longer on the agenda if one good thing came out of the general election last week that is the issue of indyref2 has been taken firmly off the table. Leaving the EU and increasing trade and trade links with the rest of the world outside will help us in the event of the EU crumbling, this is more than obvious. I'm not in favour of another Scottish IndyRef or Scottish independence but to say it's off the table now is either a complete lack of understanding of the law and constitutional position, simple mathematics or both. The SNP got 35 of the 59 seats; that's 60% of the seats. The constitutional requirement of a vote in Holyrood has already been met. Unless Holyrood changes its mind all Westminster can do is delay it. The general election result in Scotland decreasing SNP's seats from 56 to 35 may have made an indyRef a little less likely but it's definitely not off the table." Let Nicola Sturgeon call one then but she won't do it because she knows she'll lose. Unionist parties just got 60% of the vote in the general election. Any indyref has been kicked down the road for several years now. | |||
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"WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. " As explained on here many many many times, to both you and Pat, tariffs going both directions means that both sides get penalised. It doesn't mean they cancel each other out, or anything like that. It is not a positive thing or benefit. But the bit I really don't get of your thinking.... humour me here.... explain it to me like I'm a 10 year old. How exactly will tariffs "work in our favour and increase our exports all over the world?". -Matt | |||
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"WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. As explained on here many many many times, to both you and Pat, tariffs going both directions means that both sides get penalised. It doesn't mean they cancel each other out, or anything like that. It is not a positive thing or benefit. But the bit I really don't get of your thinking.... humour me here.... explain it to me like I'm a 10 year old. How exactly will tariffs "work in our favour and increase our exports all over the world?". -Matt" So you admit both sides pay a price for tariffs and the bigger the trade the bigger the price to pay so why would the eu want them as they will pay more and with the pound nowlower that will counter act our exports and increase the cost of exports making home produced goods better value here too. The sensible way forward of course is no tariffs, now remind me which side wants that and which side has to make a show to try and stop others leaving, ifa club is so good you dont need to threaten members into staying in | |||
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"WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. As explained on here many many many times, to both you and Pat, tariffs going both directions means that both sides get penalised. It doesn't mean they cancel each other out, or anything like that. It is not a positive thing or benefit. But the bit I really don't get of your thinking.... humour me here.... explain it to me like I'm a 10 year old. How exactly will tariffs "work in our favour and increase our exports all over the world?". -Matt So you admit both sides pay a price for tariffs and the bigger the trade the bigger the price to pay so why would the eu want them as they will pay more and with the pound nowlower that will counter act our exports and increase the cost of exports making home produced goods better value here too. The sensible way forward of course is no tariffs, now remind me which side wants that and which side has to make a show to try and stop others leaving, ifa club is so good you dont need to threaten members into staying in" OK, fine answer a question with a question. Hopefully Centaur will answer his thinking. Yes, both sides pay a price for tariffs, that has never been in dispute by anyone with a brain cell. And no, I'm sure in an ideal world the EU would not want tariffs. And indeed they don't, hence why they don't have them between members. That is the whole point of the single market. The EU is not 'threatening' people in order to make them stay in. This is a strange mentality that Leavers have, most likely whipped up by the Daily Mail and the likes. It. Is. Very. Simple. If you want to be in the 'club' you agree to the terms of the club. If you don't then you don't have to stay. You seem to think that, if I decided to quit my gym membership then the gym would be 'threatening' me by saying that I couldn't then use their swimming pool once I leave. -Matt | |||
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" Well you have a clear and coherent set of goals which is more than your prime minister has. But you left out 2 important things. Ones the economy and 2 is how you achieve those goals. 1, 5 and 6 all rule out a Norway or Swiss type model. How is that going to be achieved when many conservatives, the Scottish conservatives and DUP dont favour that hard a Brexit? 2 means you have to negotiate comprehensive trade deals with all of the EU, US, China, India, Pakistan, Canada, UAE, Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Australia,Russia, Singapore and South Africa in the next 19 months. And those are only the countries with £5bn+ of trade with the UK. That leaves over 40bn worth of trade with other countries still to be negotiated. Not to mention that WTO terms will devastate your economy and reduce trade with the EU significantly. Consumers in the EU arent going to pay premiums for British products. How are you reasonably going to negotiate better trade deals, that increase trade while also protecting British business and jobs when you have a much smaller market to offer than the EU did? How is the British economy and welfare system going to cope going forward? The UK stands to lose 100,000+ jobs just when euro clearing leaves the UK. While obviously accepting free movement of people, EU laws and standards and/or having to pay contributions would all mean Brexit was a failure, if the economy enters a recession with unemployment increasing, businesses closing and trade plummeting then that will also make Brexit a failure. First of all the level of your negativity and pessimism is astonishing, I've got an optimistic and positive outlook on life it's clear you are the opposite and have a very pessimistic and negative attitude. Theresa May does have a clear and coherent set of goals, they are the ones i just laid out and she set it out in her brexit speech at Lancaster house earlier this year. On the first point you raise it's looking like the DUP do favour a hard Brexit as it's in the press today a senior Tory has said the DUP fully back Theresa May's Brexit plan to leave the single market AND the customs union. The Scottish conservatives have said they will vote with the party whip In Westminster so this gives Theresa May the majority she needs. WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. In terms of signing new trade deals around the world these can be done much quicker by the UK on a 1 to 1 country basis. Think months rather than years. Australia has done trade deals from start to finish in a matter of months on a 1 to 1 country basis, it's only the EU that takes years to sign trade deals while 27 member countries of the EU squabble amongst themselves and disagree about the terms, frankly we are better off out and getting our own trade deals done much quicker. The 100,000 jobs leaving the UK is yet more scaremongering on your part the answers to that have already been given in detail to you on the scaremongering thread you posted yesterday about it. " Ok, lets say the source that said the DUP is on board is correct. So the UK knows what it wants and its in line with the goals from her speech. The Australia deal you're referring to was a very limited deal on a few specific points. It was not a brand new comprehensive deal. Those have always taken years to do. How can the UK get 14 of these done in 19 months? No ones ever managed to get one deal done with this level of detail before in under 2 years and the UK is going to do 14? And somehow do it in a way that gets better terms than the EU did?? Id like to believe its possible but you might as well be telling me that Britain is going to land a person on all 7 other planets in the solar system in the next ten years because its just as likely. As for the 100,000 jobs that will be lost I went back to doublecheck the thread in case I missed something and no one disagreed with the premise of the thread with any argument let alone any detailed one. While devaluing the pound will make exports more competitive, exports have already risen because of this, the addition of tarrifs will negate these gains. In order to stand still you have to negotiate terms as strong as the EUs, generate enough extra trade to cover losses to the EU and stimulate jobs growth enough to cover the losses of things like Euro clearing which will definitely be going and thats all before considering that a devalued pound increases the cost of imports and the cost of living for ordinary people. | |||
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"WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. As explained on here many many many times, to both you and Pat, tariffs going both directions means that both sides get penalised. It doesn't mean they cancel each other out, or anything like that. It is not a positive thing or benefit. But the bit I really don't get of your thinking.... humour me here.... explain it to me like I'm a 10 year old. How exactly will tariffs "work in our favour and increase our exports all over the world?". -Matt So you admit both sides pay a price for tariffs and the bigger the trade the bigger the price to pay so why would the eu want them as they will pay more and with the pound nowlower that will counter act our exports and increase the cost of exports making home produced goods better value here too. The sensible way forward of course is no tariffs, now remind me which side wants that and which side has to make a show to try and stop others leaving, ifa club is so good you dont need to threaten members into staying in OK, fine answer a question with a question. Hopefully Centaur will answer his thinking. Yes, both sides pay a price for tariffs, that has never been in dispute by anyone with a brain cell. And no, I'm sure in an ideal world the EU would not want tariffs. And indeed they don't, hence why they don't have them between members. That is the whole point of the single market. The EU is not 'threatening' people in order to make them stay in. This is a strange mentality that Leavers have, most likely whipped up by the Daily Mail and the likes. It. Is. Very. Simple. If you want to be in the 'club' you agree to the terms of the club. If you don't then you don't have to stay. You seem to think that, if I decided to quit my gym membership then the gym would be 'threatening' me by saying that I couldn't then use their swimming pool once I leave. -Matt" If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ?" We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt" And that's another question that BRECITers never seem able to answer. Who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes in these new comprehensive free trade deals? | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt" The EU does not do free trade deals, never has they only deal with people in the special paid up memebers club and all countries outside that club have to pay tariffs. We pay tarrifs just up front and even the. Have to abide by rules to suit the EU. In or out it will cost for access. Personally I can see the whole exit thing crumbling because already it's being watered down | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt The EU does not do free trade deals, never has they only deal with people in the special paid up memebers club and all countries outside that club have to pay tariffs. We pay tarrifs just up front and even the. Have to abide by rules to suit the EU. In or out it will cost for access. Personally I can see the whole exit thing crumbling because already it's being watered down "Well that is not quite true. The EU does do free trade deals with those outside: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements#Jurisprudence But it looks like most of those are fairly small partners. Some are larger, eg. with South Africa. But as has been pointed out these take longer than the 18 months we have to negotiation. The South African one appears to have been signed in 1999 (no idea when they started negotiating) but didn't enter into force until 2004, and the 'liberalisation schedules' not until 2014. And whilst I don't know for certain, I'd imagine it is subject to the ECJ for arbitration. As for us paying tariffs 'up front'... We exported £240B to the EU last year. We paid £8.6B in net contributions to the EU. If you assume that that ENTIRE fee was for tariffs then that would be a 'tariff' of 3.5%. So clearly it would be less as we clearly have a lot of other benefits besides the free trade. And that doesn't even bring into it the psychological aspect of 'pay as you go' vs. 'all inclusive'. -Matt | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt The EU does not do free trade deals, never has they only deal with people in the special paid up memebers club and all countries outside that club have to pay tariffs. We pay tarrifs just up front and even the. Have to abide by rules to suit the EU. In or out it will cost for access. Personally I can see the whole exit thing crumbling because already it's being watered down
Well that is not quite true. The EU does do free trade deals with those outside:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements#Jurisprudence
But it looks like most of those are fairly small partners. Some are larger, eg. with South Africa. But as has been pointed out these take longer than the 18 months we have to negotiation. The South African one appears to have been signed in 1999 (no idea when they started negotiating) but didn't enter into force until 2004, and the 'liberalisation schedules' not until 2014. And whilst I don't know for certain, I'd imagine it is subject to the ECJ for arbitration.
As for us paying tariffs 'up front'...
We exported £240B to the EU last year. We paid £8.6B in net contributions to the EU. If you assume that that ENTIRE fee was for tariffs then that would be a 'tariff' of 3.5%. So clearly it would be less as we clearly have a lot of other benefits besides the free trade. And that doesn't even bring into it the psychological aspect of 'pay as you go' vs. 'all inclusive'.
-Matt"How much did they export to us....as your so good with figures I'm sure you can enlighten us....? What tariffs would then be imposed on the EU? | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt The EU does not do free trade deals, never has they only deal with people in the special paid up memebers club and all countries outside that club have to pay tariffs. We pay tarrifs just up front and even the. Have to abide by rules to suit the EU. In or out it will cost for access. Personally I can see the whole exit thing crumbling because already it's being watered down
Well that is not quite true. The EU does do free trade deals with those outside:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements#Jurisprudence
But it looks like most of those are fairly small partners. Some are larger, eg. with South Africa. But as has been pointed out these take longer than the 18 months we have to negotiation. The South African one appears to have been signed in 1999 (no idea when they started negotiating) but didn't enter into force until 2004, and the 'liberalisation schedules' not until 2014. And whilst I don't know for certain, I'd imagine it is subject to the ECJ for arbitration.
As for us paying tariffs 'up front'...
We exported £240B to the EU last year. We paid £8.6B in net contributions to the EU. If you assume that that ENTIRE fee was for tariffs then that would be a 'tariff' of 3.5%. So clearly it would be less as we clearly have a lot of other benefits besides the free trade. And that doesn't even bring into it the psychological aspect of 'pay as you go' vs. 'all inclusive'.
-Matt
How much did they export to us....as your so good with figures I'm sure you can enlighten us....?
What tariffs would then be imposed on the EU?"They exported about £290B to us. Simple enough to look up. Who knows what tariffs our government would put on EU imports. I guess we would be subject to WTO schedules, but then even the Leave Alliance think that that would be a disaster: "One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected." http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 -Matt | |||
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"WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. As explained on here many many many times, to both you and Pat, tariffs going both directions means that both sides get penalised. It doesn't mean they cancel each other out, or anything like that. It is not a positive thing or benefit. But the bit I really don't get of your thinking.... humour me here.... explain it to me like I'm a 10 year old. How exactly will tariffs "work in our favour and increase our exports all over the world?". -Matt So you admit both sides pay a price for tariffs and the bigger the trade the bigger the price to pay so why would the eu want them as they will pay more and with the pound nowlower that will counter act our exports and increase the cost of exports making home produced goods better value here too. The sensible way forward of course is no tariffs, now remind me which side wants that and which side has to make a show to try and stop others leaving, ifa club is so good you dont need to threaten members into staying in OK, fine answer a question with a question. Hopefully Centaur will answer his thinking. Yes, both sides pay a price for tariffs, that has never been in dispute by anyone with a brain cell. And no, I'm sure in an ideal world the EU would not want tariffs. And indeed they don't, hence why they don't have them between members. That is the whole point of the single market. The EU is not 'threatening' people in order to make them stay in. This is a strange mentality that Leavers have, most likely whipped up by the Daily Mail and the likes. It. Is. Very. Simple. If you want to be in the 'club' you agree to the terms of the club. If you don't then you don't have to stay. You seem to think that, if I decided to quit my gym membership then the gym would be 'threatening' me by saying that I couldn't then use their swimming pool once I leave. -Matt" The British people have decided they don't want to be in the EU club anymore. The British people have made it very clear they don't agree to the terms of the club. It. Is. Very. Simple. Remember the result of the referendum 52% voted to leave and now 85% of the voting electorate just voted for Brexit manifestos in the general election (conservative, Labour and ukip combined). On your other point the EU does have tariffs it's called the EU budget contribution free, you pay for membership of the single market and the EU so you pay your tariff up front. The EU call it 'free trade' but it really isn't, it's the biggest con job going because you are paying to trade with the EU contribution fee, you also get a load of shitty strings attached with that fee like free movement of people and losing control of your borders, loss of sovereignty of your country and your parliament, inhibited from striking up your own trade deals outside of the EU club, and having EU law take supremacy over your own domestic law. | |||
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"WTO rules will not devastate the economy as you seem to think, many countries all over the world do great on WTO trading rules and tariffs are a 2 way thing, they work in both directions. With the lower value of the pound tariffs would now work in the uk's favour and will increase our exports all over the world making the UK more competitive in the global market. As explained on here many many many times, to both you and Pat, tariffs going both directions means that both sides get penalised. It doesn't mean they cancel each other out, or anything like that. It is not a positive thing or benefit. But the bit I really don't get of your thinking.... humour me here.... explain it to me like I'm a 10 year old. How exactly will tariffs "work in our favour and increase our exports all over the world?". -Matt So you admit both sides pay a price for tariffs and the bigger the trade the bigger the price to pay so why would the eu want them as they will pay more and with the pound nowlower that will counter act our exports and increase the cost of exports making home produced goods better value here too. The sensible way forward of course is no tariffs, now remind me which side wants that and which side has to make a show to try and stop others leaving, ifa club is so good you dont need to threaten members into staying in OK, fine answer a question with a question. Hopefully Centaur will answer his thinking. Yes, both sides pay a price for tariffs, that has never been in dispute by anyone with a brain cell. And no, I'm sure in an ideal world the EU would not want tariffs. And indeed they don't, hence why they don't have them between members. That is the whole point of the single market. The EU is not 'threatening' people in order to make them stay in. This is a strange mentality that Leavers have, most likely whipped up by the Daily Mail and the likes. It. Is. Very. Simple. If you want to be in the 'club' you agree to the terms of the club. If you don't then you don't have to stay. You seem to think that, if I decided to quit my gym membership then the gym would be 'threatening' me by saying that I couldn't then use their swimming pool once I leave. -Matt The British people have decided they don't want to be in the EU club anymore. The British people have made it very clear they don't agree to the terms of the club. It. Is. Very. Simple. Remember the result of the referendum 52% voted to leave and now 85% of the voting electorate just voted for Brexit manifestos in the general election (conservative, Labour and ukip combined). On your other point the EU does have tariffs it's called the EU budget contribution free, you pay for membership of the single market and the EU so you pay your tariff up front. The EU call it 'free trade' but it really isn't, it's the biggest con job going because you are paying to trade with the EU contribution fee, you also get a load of shitty strings attached with that fee like free movement of people and losing control of your borders, loss of sovereignty of your country and your parliament, inhibited from striking up your own trade deals outside of the EU club, and having EU law take supremacy over your own domestic law. " Oh, take your head out your arse Centaur. Even Theresa May admitted that we never lost our soverignty. And as for 'loss of control of our borders'... you... I... don't... sorry... it is just useless trying to get you to understand that we have control of our borders and always have had. But yes you are right, our contribution to the EU budget gets us a lot more benefits then just free trade. We get a lot of our necessary regulatory frameworks and compliance included as well as access to a lot of very necessary and useful services. -Matt | |||
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"Think you will find our balance of payments with the EU is way further apart than the figures quoted here....." And? -Matt | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt And that's another question that BRECITers never seem able to answer. Who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes in these new comprehensive free trade deals?" Guess who does it in all the other trade deals and transactions round the world now, clue it aint the eu court | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt" Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt And that's another question that BRECITers never seem able to answer. Who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes in these new comprehensive free trade deals? Guess who does it in all the other trade deals and transactions round the world now, clue it aint the eu court" No, indeed most likely not. They most likely all set up or use their own arbitration courts or bodies. We could just do the same. Just need to set one up. And hope the other side see it as independent enough. And fund it. -Matt | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? " I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt" But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? " They dont want free trade particularly. The EU was set up to set up systems that would basically make war between EU nations so impractable as to never happen again. When we're working together so closely and constantly in a democratic way, and when our economies are so close and so many of our people move countries war becomes unthinkable. We are currently enjoying the longest period of peace in western europe in centuries. | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will " Tarrifs are paid by companies and consumers. There is no way to be "in credit". EU companies wont be worried because the UK stands to lose more business overall than the EU companies. EU companies can replace UK customers with customers in 26 different countries. UK companies dont have such an easy replacement. The proof of this is UK based companies moving to the EU already and companies like BMW pushing for a tough deal with Brexit. EU companies are much more worried about the problems of the EU breaking up than they are about losing UK business. | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will Tarrifs are paid by companies and consumers. There is no way to be "in credit". EU companies wont be worried because the UK stands to lose more business overall than the EU companies. EU companies can replace UK customers with customers in 26 different countries. UK companies dont have such an easy replacement. The proof of this is UK based companies moving to the EU already and companies like BMW pushing for a tough deal with Brexit. EU companies are much more worried about the problems of the EU breaking up than they are about losing UK business." You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will " It is no surprise that a Brexiter would only see this one dimensionally. The Common Market is now the European Union and all countries contribute to the Union in the same way that all regions of the UK contribute to the running of this country albeit via broad tax contributions. Poorer parts of the UK contribute less and indeed some parts of the UK are subsidised by others. Same in the EU. The European Union is a fundamentally good idea and one of its great benefits is that countries adopt common standards and protocols to make the free movement of goods and trade easier. If we want to trade in the future with the EU we still have to adhere to the same standards and those pesky rules that everyone seems to think over-ruled UK sovereignty. Starting next week, the U.K. will commence on a journey of complete humiliation as David Davis and co finally start to understand how the EU actually works and he can be questioned again about "getting at least the same deal, if not better out of the EU than in it." I feel thoroughly ashamed on behalf of the kids and children yet to be born that the UK has turned its back on the brotherhood of Europe and the EU. | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will Tarrifs are paid by companies and consumers. There is no way to be "in credit". EU companies wont be worried because the UK stands to lose more business overall than the EU companies. EU companies can replace UK customers with customers in 26 different countries. UK companies dont have such an easy replacement. The proof of this is UK based companies moving to the EU already and companies like BMW pushing for a tough deal with Brexit. EU companies are much more worried about the problems of the EU breaking up than they are about losing UK business." If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they? | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will It is no surprise that a Brexiter would only see this one dimensionally. The Common Market is now the European Union and all countries contribute to the Union in the same way that all regions of the UK contribute to the running of this country albeit via broad tax contributions. Poorer parts of the UK contribute less and indeed some parts of the UK are subsidised by others. Same in the EU. The European Union is a fundamentally good idea and one of its great benefits is that countries adopt common standards and protocols to make the free movement of goods and trade easier. If we want to trade in the future with the EU we still have to adhere to the same standards and those pesky rules that everyone seems to think over-ruled UK sovereignty. Starting next week, the U.K. will commence on a journey of complete humiliation as David Davis and co finally start to understand how the EU actually works and he can be questioned again about "getting at least the same deal, if not better out of the EU than in it." I feel thoroughly ashamed on behalf of the kids and children yet to be born that the UK has turned its back on the brotherhood of Europe and the EU." My kid is ashamed of people like you. And so are his Spanish friends and Italian cousins. They too want out of the EU mess | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? I didn't avoid it. Read again. As I said, they don't have tariffs within the free market. That is the point. -Matt But its not free is it, how ever much the "precise" figure is is costs us around 200/200 million a week that will cover a lot of tariffs for uk to take the hit if they so desire but of course as we import more than we export we will be in credit anyway, If I was a EU based company exporting here I would be a lot more worried than the other way round due to currency,they get a double hit, their goods are dearer to us twice over, whereas the tariffs and currency counteract on most things, have faith if uk plc wants to make it a success we will It is no surprise that a Brexiter would only see this one dimensionally. The Common Market is now the European Union and all countries contribute to the Union in the same way that all regions of the UK contribute to the running of this country albeit via broad tax contributions. Poorer parts of the UK contribute less and indeed some parts of the UK are subsidised by others. Same in the EU. The European Union is a fundamentally good idea and one of its great benefits is that countries adopt common standards and protocols to make the free movement of goods and trade easier. If we want to trade in the future with the EU we still have to adhere to the same standards and those pesky rules that everyone seems to think over-ruled UK sovereignty. Starting next week, the U.K. will commence on a journey of complete humiliation as David Davis and co finally start to understand how the EU actually works and he can be questioned again about "getting at least the same deal, if not better out of the EU than in it." I feel thoroughly ashamed on behalf of the kids and children yet to be born that the UK has turned its back on the brotherhood of Europe and the EU." This has really annoyed me. People have not turned their backs on the brotherhood of Europe. How could we? Do you think that wanting to leave the EU is turning their backs on their families who just happen to be a different nationality? They are turning their backs on an organisation that is no longer working properly and has impoverished millions of people particularly through the introduction of the Euro. I am English and I am a proud European. How can I turn my back on myself?! | |||
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"Or when brexit is negotiated a quota can be stipulated to allow skilled labour to live and work in the UK and vice versa without the present untenable free for all undermining opportunities for local residents finding and securing employment as they start of the proverbial Ladd, so to speak. Unrestricted access to cheap unskilled labour is a race to the bottom.. why Blair didn't stipulate caveats during his time in office is bizarre, Peter Mandelson when questioned on it glibly rebuffed they didn't foresee the level of influx of unskilled labour so never introduce caveats.. Surely it is a legislatures and policy makers job to introduce safe guards whether they foresee the need for them or not. Why the English are vilified for wanting to protect and preserve their way of life and national identity is bizarre.. especially considering the prevalent nationalism that is encouraged and very present in other UK Nations. " Good post. And people in other European countries feel exactly the same | |||
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"Or when brexit is negotiated a quota can be stipulated to allow skilled labour to live and work in the UK and vice versa without the present untenable free for all undermining opportunities for local residents finding and securing employment as they start of the proverbial Ladd, so to speak. Unrestricted access to cheap unskilled labour is a race to the bottom.. why Blair didn't stipulate caveats during his time in office is bizarre, Peter Mandelson when questioned on it glibly rebuffed they didn't foresee the level of influx of unskilled labour so never introduce caveats.. Surely it is a legislatures and policy makers job to introduce safe guards whether they foresee the need for them or not. Why the English are vilified for wanting to protect and preserve their way of life and national identity is bizarre.. especially considering the prevalent nationalism that is encouraged and very present in other UK Nations. Good post. And people in other European countries feel exactly the same "
I felt liberated when the UK voted to Leave the EU in the referendum last year. The EU is an oppressive and authoritarian organisation that refuses to listen to people's concerns and steam rollers over countries who object (just look at Greece as an example). As Boris Johnson said in his closing speech at the BBC EU referendum special last year, Brexit will give hope to millions of people across Europe who don't currently have a voice.
I will be out celebrating on June 23rd/24th it will be the first anniversary of our independence day. | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet" What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit??? 
" If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?" Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters. | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters."Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked"No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking. BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs. But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif. That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand.... | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt And that's another question that BRECITers never seem able to answer. Who or what is going to arbitrate any disputes in these new comprehensive free trade deals? Guess who does it in all the other trade deals and transactions round the world now, clue it aint the eu court" I don't have to guess how free trade disputes are arbitrated around the world currently because I know. They are arbitrated by the international investments court system (ICS) using an international legal instrument known as Investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS). This is a system through which individual companies can sue countries for alleged discriminatory practices. It's rulings are binding in international law and can not be overruled by sovereign national courts. If you think about it, how else could it possibly work? What this means is that if we leave the EU and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice but still want a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU, or anyone else, we will still be subject to the rulings of a court outside of British sovereign control and that will have supremacy over UK courts. I bet no one from the leave campaign has told you that little truth before, have they? | |||
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"If they dont want tariffs why impose them? We already meet rules and regs for inter member trade just as we have to to trade anywhere in the world, the EU claims they want free trade deals round the world then why not with us now? Its happening now why does it need to change just because we are leaving ? We only meet those rules and regs as we are subject to the ECJ as arbiter. But as we have said we don't want to be subject to the ECJ then we wouldn't meet those rules and regs. -Matt Nicely avoided answering the question, again why do they want tariffs if they want free trade ? " The purpose of tariffs is to protect an internal market from unfair competition by use of methods such as lax environmental rules, lax workers rights and state subsidy. It's only possible to be sure that none of these are happening by having a common set of rules. While in the single market we are bound by a common set of rules so can not undercut the other members unfairly. Once outside the single market we would be free to try and unfairly undercut the other members so tariffs would be required. Unless we had a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU but that would end up being pretty much the same as being in the single market anyhow. | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand...."The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient. The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death? The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit. | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit."The common travel area only worked in the past because the Irish Governments of the day chose to align their immigration policies with that of the UK. If Ireland is going to allow free movement of labour between itself and the EU but the UK is not then alignment will no longer be there and the Common Travel area will cease to exist. | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit." as vapid an argument as we're used to based on non-factual information.
The Irish never supported Nazi Germany, over 55,000 Irish served in the British forces against the Axis and the Irish government worked extensively with the Allies intelligence to aid their war effort. A tiny fraction of the armed republican movement, not even the majority, thought a united Ireland could be acheived if the Nazis won. But it doesnt surprise me that you'd completely misrepesent the facts to try and support a false claim against the Irish.
The EU is best served by serving the interests of those members that remain. Thats why theyre taking Euro clearing out of London and the 100,000 jobs with it. Thats why their competing, and winning, for banks and other companies to move from Britain to the EU. A successful Brexit would weaken the EU, thats why it wont happen but you obviously dont have the education necessary to connect the dots. So Ill say this nice and simply for you. If Brexit is seen as better than membership of the EU then other countries will leave. And thats bad for the EU. Other countries seeing that leaving is worse means they'll stay and the EU is stronger for that.
Was that simple enough for you? Or do you want to go back to reading false anti Irish propaganda about us all being Nazis instead? | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
The common travel area only worked in the past because the Irish Governments of the day chose to align their immigration policies with that of the UK. If Ireland is going to allow free movement of labour between itself and the EU but the UK is not then alignment will no longer be there and the Common Travel area will cease to exist."Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ? Please. | |||
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" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
"Why should I accept it. I didn't accept Harrold Wilsons winning in 1974 and worked to change it, which we did in 1979. I didn't accept Tony Blair winning in 1997 and worked to change it, which we did in 2010. The leavers didn't accept Remain winning in the first referendum in 1975 and winged, moaned and worked to try and reverse the result, which they did in 2016. So why should I not point out what I believe is wrong with BREXIT and try to stop and reverse it, just as leavers have done since 1975? And it's definitely not in the EUs interests to enter into any kind of comprehensive free trade deal with anyone, even the UK, if they are not willing to accept independent binding arbitration backed up by either European or international law. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
as vapid an argument as we're used to based on non-factual information.
The Irish never supported Nazi Germany, over 55,000 Irish served in the British forces against the Axis and the Irish government worked extensively with the Allies intelligence to aid their war effort. A tiny fraction of the armed republican movement, not even the majority, thought a united Ireland could be acheived if the Nazis won. But it doesnt surprise me that you'd completely misrepesent the facts to try and support a false claim against the Irish.
The EU is best served by serving the interests of those members that remain. Thats why theyre taking Euro clearing out of London and the 100,000 jobs with it. Thats why their competing, and winning, for banks and other companies to move from Britain to the EU. A successful Brexit would weaken the EU, thats why it wont happen but you obviously dont have the education necessary to connect the dots. So Ill say this nice and simply for you. If Brexit is seen as better than membership of the EU then other countries will leave. And thats bad for the EU. Other countries seeing that leaving is worse means they'll stay and the EU is stronger for that.
Was that simple enough for you? Or do you want to go back to reading false anti Irish propaganda about us all being Nazis instead?"I know , my great grandfather fought in the allied forces, he was shunned and spat at. Please.. retire the script of vapid neoLIEberal globalist cliches. I'd love to see the little condolence book signed by de Valera...for his idol Hitler.. Is that on public display anywhere?... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
The common travel area only worked in the past because the Irish Governments of the day chose to align their immigration policies with that of the UK. If Ireland is going to allow free movement of labour between itself and the EU but the UK is not then alignment will no longer be there and the Common Travel area will cease to exist.
Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ?
Please."Typical xenophobic response we've come to expect from many BREXITers on here. Rather than try and answer the points he raised just find another reason to dismiss someone as irrelevant just because they don't agree with you. Could it be that you can't actually come up with a decent argument to counter his? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
The common travel area only worked in the past because the Irish Governments of the day chose to align their immigration policies with that of the UK. If Ireland is going to allow free movement of labour between itself and the EU but the UK is not then alignment will no longer be there and the Common Travel area will cease to exist.
Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ?
Please.
Typical xenophobic response we've come to expect from many BREXITers on here. Rather than try and answer the points he raised rather that just find another reason to dismiss someone as irrelevant just because they don't agree with you. Could it be that you can't actually come up with a decent argument to counter his?"Typical globalist bourgeois rebuttal. A few well trodden epithets of "xenophobia" or some other equally trite allegation. Reality , the UK voted to leave.. You seem to struggle with this reality. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
as vapid an argument as we're used to based on non-factual information.
The Irish never supported Nazi Germany, over 55,000 Irish served in the British forces against the Axis and the Irish government worked extensively with the Allies intelligence to aid their war effort. A tiny fraction of the armed republican movement, not even the majority, thought a united Ireland could be acheived if the Nazis won. But it doesnt surprise me that you'd completely misrepesent the facts to try and support a false claim against the Irish.
The EU is best served by serving the interests of those members that remain. Thats why theyre taking Euro clearing out of London and the 100,000 jobs with it. Thats why their competing, and winning, for banks and other companies to move from Britain to the EU. A successful Brexit would weaken the EU, thats why it wont happen but you obviously dont have the education necessary to connect the dots. So Ill say this nice and simply for you. If Brexit is seen as better than membership of the EU then other countries will leave. And thats bad for the EU. Other countries seeing that leaving is worse means they'll stay and the EU is stronger for that.
Was that simple enough for you? Or do you want to go back to reading false anti Irish propaganda about us all being Nazis instead?
I know , my great grandfather fought in the allied forces, he was shunned and spat at. Please.. retire the script of vapid neoLIEberal globalist cliches. I'd love to see the little condolence book signed by de Valera...for his idol Hitler.. Is that on public display anywhere?... "I totally don't see how, whether a condolence book to Hitler exists somewhere in Ireland or whether De Valera actually signed it or not, has anything to do with the UK staying or leaving the EU. Maybe you can tell me what the relevance actually is? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
The common travel area only worked in the past because the Irish Governments of the day chose to align their immigration policies with that of the UK. If Ireland is going to allow free movement of labour between itself and the EU but the UK is not then alignment will no longer be there and the Common Travel area will cease to exist.
Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ?
Please.
Typical xenophobic response we've come to expect from many BREXITers on here. Rather than try and answer the points he raised rather that just find another reason to dismiss someone as irrelevant just because they don't agree with you. Could it be that you can't actually come up with a decent argument to counter his?
Typical globalist bourgeois rebuttal. A few well trodden epithets of "xenophobia" or some other equally trite allegation.
Reality , the UK voted to leave..
You seem to struggle with this reality. "Not as much as you seem to be struggling with people disagreeing with you. Democracy didn't stop on June 23rd last year. Those of us who believe that BREXIT is an economically suicidal policy aren't going anywhere and won't stop pointing out why we believe that. A hard 'no deal is better than a bad deal' BREXIT is already dead. You may not realise or accept that yet but you will realise eventually. Carry on with your arguments that we're just remoaners and we'll have to just suck it up and accept it if you want but if you don't start making better arguments for BREXIT than that I reckon any sort of BREXIT will be dead within the year. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" You are living in dreamland. Didn't the Greeks buy a lot of BMW's? How did that one end? Oh it hasn't even ended yet What has the choice of cars of the Greeks got to do with EU companies thoughts on Brexit???
If the EU countries can replace UK customers with the other 26 then why aren't they just charging us 2,3,4 times what they charge now for goods because according to you they don't need us and any sales here are just a bonus aren't they?
Because thats not how business works. Are you just putting random words into sentences and hoping they make sense? It would be easier discussing things with monkeys at typewriters.
Jeez you are thick. The Greeks were allowed to join the eurozone even though they shouldn't have qualified and people were given easy credit so that they could buy the BMW's or whatever and keep the German economy ticking along nicely, who were the winners and losers? Do you want this to happen again to other countries? Do you really think that the other 26 are suddenly going to start buying more BMW's or whatever to compensate for the loss of UK sales? Where will the money come from? You are delusional and frankly shitting yourself about the UK not getting a good deal with the EU because without one Ireland are fucked
No we'll be fine,but thanks for asking.
BMW arent just part of the luxury vehicle market. They sell a wide range of vehicles. So they can sell to EU customers that the UK will lose due to tarrifs.
But thats only if you keep your car manufacturers. Lets look at Nissan for example in Sunderland who have said that they will be reviewing the cost effectiveness of keeping production in Sunderland. 71% of Nissans built in the UK go to the EU. The increase in cost to build in the UK due to importation tarrifs on raw materials and currency devaluation could be €2,500. Then importing them into the EU would be a further 10% tarrif.
That means a €30k vehicle becomes a €36k vehicle and you dont get any extra for spending the 6 grand....
The British people voted to leave, accept it. The remoaners and their non domestic cheer leaders aren't adding anything useful to the situation and task at hand. The points others have made regarding it being as much in the EU's interest as the UK's for a mutually beneficial agreement are valid and salient.
The Irish endured many hardships for their sovereignty and national identity.. even being defacto Nazi sympathisers during "the emergency"/ ww2... Hoping for a "united Ireland" through the Nazis prevailing.. where is the condolence book stored that de Valera signed bemoaning his idol, Hitler's death?
The English are entitled to shape their own destiny and preserve their identity.. I'm sure the common area travel agreement many southern Irish have used to study, live and work in the UK will still stand after brexit.
as vapid an argument as we're used to based on non-factual information.
The Irish never supported Nazi Germany, over 55,000 Irish served in the British forces against the Axis and the Irish government worked extensively with the Allies intelligence to aid their war effort. A tiny fraction of the armed republican movement, not even the majority, thought a united Ireland could be acheived if the Nazis won. But it doesnt surprise me that you'd completely misrepesent the facts to try and support a false claim against the Irish.
The EU is best served by serving the interests of those members that remain. Thats why theyre taking Euro clearing out of London and the 100,000 jobs with it. Thats why their competing, and winning, for banks and other companies to move from Britain to the EU. A successful Brexit would weaken the EU, thats why it wont happen but you obviously dont have the education necessary to connect the dots. So Ill say this nice and simply for you. If Brexit is seen as better than membership of the EU then other countries will leave. And thats bad for the EU. Other countries seeing that leaving is worse means they'll stay and the EU is stronger for that.
Was that simple enough for you? Or do you want to go back to reading false anti Irish propaganda about us all being Nazis instead?
I know , my great grandfather fought in the allied forces, he was shunned and spat at. Please.. retire the script of vapid neoLIEberal globalist cliches. I'd love to see the little condolence book signed by de Valera...for his idol Hitler.. Is that on public display anywhere?...
I totally don't see how, whether a condolence book to Hitler exists somewhere in Ireland or whether De Valera actually signed it or not, has anything to do with the UK staying or leaving the EU. Maybe you can tell me what the relevance actually is?"He's bemoaning the result of a peaceful democratic referendum .. and the self determination of British people.. atleast it wasn't a scheme done in collusion with one of history's? biggest killers. .. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ? Please." You know we dont have a tunnel between Ireland and Britain right? So why would we need a new one? No one said Britain couldnt democratically plot their own trajectory. We're discussing how Brexit is proceeding and what the outcomes look like. But because its not going well youre lashing out like a child who doesnt understand why it cant get everything it wants. Toxically nationalist? Please. We go abroad and are beloved. The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? And theres few people more small minded than the likes of you still trying to fight a war in the North that you lost. Sorry to say but Catholics have equal rights now and the 6 counties are closer than ever to the Republic. And thanks to Brexit it will be easier to travel South than it will be to travel to the rest of Britain. The worlds changing and its moving on, leaving bitter little people like you behind. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
". Not as much as you seem to be struggling with people disagreeing with you. Democracy didn't stop on June 23rd last year. Those of us who believe that BREXIT is an economically suicidal policy aren't going anywhere and won't stop pointing out why we believe that. A hard 'no deal is better than a bad deal' BREXIT is already dead. You may not realise or accept that yet but you will realise eventually. Carry on with your arguments that we're just remoaners and we'll have to just suck it up and accept it if you want but if you don't start making better arguments for BREXIT than that I reckon any sort of BREXIT will be dead within the year." Democracy is fine as long as you agree with his point of view. We'll see how happy he is to abide by democracy when the nationalists are the majority in Northern Ireland and theres a vote on a United Ireland. My guess is that he'll be the remoaner wishing to stay with Britain. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ? Please. You know we dont have a tunnel between Ireland and Britain right? So why would we need a new one? No one said Britain couldnt democratically plot their own trajectory. We're discussing how Brexit is proceeding and what the outcomes look like. But because its not going well youre lashing out like a child who doesnt understand why it cant get everything it wants. Toxically nationalist? Please. We go abroad and are beloved. The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? And theres few people more small minded than the likes of you still trying to fight a war in the North that you lost. Sorry to say but Catholics have equal rights now and the 6 counties are closer than ever to the Republic. And thanks to Brexit it will be easier to travel South than it will be to travel to the rest of Britain. The worlds changing and its moving on, leaving bitter little people like you behind." No, I'm Catholic.. sweetie. It was never about religion.. my parents grew up in a ghetto not ruined by protests but by nationalist IRA terrorists that sold drugs and domineered and ran the community into the ground, using residents? as sand bags while they traded bullets with law enforcement. You know extremely little to comment. Sorry, I'll take the dysfunctional mess that is ni over the banana republic known as roi.. you're not "beloved" you're d*unken tricolour waving curios. Yes, toxically nationalist. Germany is your new teat to suckle dry, perhaps it will serve the Irish victimhood narrative.. More songs for dishevelled old men to write and sing on street corners about the indifference and ill treatment your little republic will receive at the hands of Germany?. Please . The Germans aren't historically known for gentility or tact... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Maybe they can build a new channel tunnel from rosslare to rosscoff and bypass the UK completely.. Germany? and France are the new teats they'll be suckling to keep the banana republic afloat realistically. The most toxically nationalist little islanders on earth telling others they can't express a sense of nationalism or democratically plot their own trajectory ? Please. You know we dont have a tunnel between Ireland and Britain right? So why would we need a new one? No one said Britain couldnt democratically plot their own trajectory. We're discussing how Brexit is proceeding and what the outcomes look like. But because its not going well youre lashing out like a child who doesnt understand why it cant get everything it wants. Toxically nationalist? Please. We go abroad and are beloved. The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? And theres few people more small minded than the likes of you still trying to fight a war in the North that you lost. Sorry to say but Catholics have equal rights now and the 6 counties are closer than ever to the Republic. And thanks to Brexit it will be easier to travel South than it will be to travel to the rest of Britain. The worlds changing and its moving on, leaving bitter little people like you behind. No, I'm Catholic.. sweetie. It was never about religion.. my parents grew up in a ghetto not ruined by protests but by nationalist IRA terrorists that sold drugs and domineered and ran the community into the ground, using residents? as sand bags while they traded bullets with law enforcement. You know extremely little to comment. Sorry, I'll take the dysfunctional mess that is ni over the banana republic known as roi.. you're not "beloved" you're d*unken tricolour waving curios. Yes, toxically nationalist. Germany is your new teat to suckle dry, perhaps it will serve the Irish victimhood narrative.. More songs for dishevelled old men to write and sing on street corners about the indifference and ill treatment your little republic will receive at the hands of Germany?. Please . The Germans aren't historically known for gentility or tact... " I'm still struggling to see what any of this has to with whether the UK should or could reverse BREXIT. Your previous explanation doesn't really explain it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went?" ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016 "But the violent trouble makers were from Russia and Britain though, right? Brits were the only fans who caused so much trouble that tear gas was required 3 seperate times. While obviously they are a minority and most British people just want to see their teams do well or holiday in peace as the case may be the fact remains that British people abroad have a certain reputation and a minority do keep that alive. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016
But the violent trouble makers were from Russia and Britain though, right? Brits were the only fans who caused so much trouble that tear gas was required 3 seperate times.
While obviously they are a minority and most British people just want to see their teams do well or holiday in peace as the case may be the fact remains that British people abroad have a certain reputation and a minority do keep that alive."the british do have a reputation for going out and causing trouble. the irish are best known for their comradary and am proud of all the irish who travel out there and go for the crac. puts the hooligans to shame. saying that hooliganism is very much underground and people arrange to meet to fight. dont know why we cant put them all in the stadium and fight each other. but the spotlight is in england alot although there were hooligan camps from all over europe. | |||
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"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016 "Yes. I'm recently back from benidorm and I can assure you there was no shortage of dickheads from the republic of Ireland behaving like d*unken wankers along the strip waving tricolour flags and walking around in those retarded st Patrick wig hats .. on their stags and hens. | |||
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"Rather it was closed, think a out it. EU, UN, IMF all about globalisation. UN are the world police/military. IMF finance! Politically not there yet. We are being turned in to Europeans, losing our British identity, political correctness prevents our opinions being heard, family values being corroded, our children being brought up in a compulsory school system that turns our children in to authority obeying robots! I know I sound like a looney, but do your research and you may agree. " Take the Ancestry.com DNA test and come back to this post after you get the results. We are all European - like it or not | |||
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"Rather it was closed, think a out it. EU, UN, IMF all about globalisation. UN are the world police/military. IMF finance! Politically not there yet. We are being turned in to Europeans, losing our British identity, political correctness prevents our opinions being heard, family values being corroded, our children being brought up in a compulsory school system that turns our children in to authority obeying robots! I know I sound like a looney, but do your research and you may agree. Take the Ancestry.com DNA test and come back to this post after you get the results. We are all European - like it or not" He isn't talking about biology, he's talking about cultural identity. Don't be so glib? | |||
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"There was no British team at the euros lol it was English northern Irish Welsh . If you ad seen the news the English fans were attacked with bats Nivea chairs while drinking in the bars by organized Russian fans " So there were 3 british teams... Just like at the world cup there'll be 13 european teams. And in Marseille on June 10th it was Brits vs the police, no Russians were even there. And despite sub suckers attempts to vilify the Irish despite the fact that our tourists are always well liked its mostly a product of his hatred. Just looking at his posts over the last 2 weeks he's attacked blacks, muslims, Irish to name a few. Its almost as if he's xenophobic and has a hatred for anyone not like him....shocking | |||
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"They play under there own flags not the Union Jack and stop slaging of the Brits all the time that's all you do it was organized gangs and the police attacking Inocent English fans sum fought back as you wud but don't try make out they were as bad as the Russians ffs " I'm not even English and I am tiring of reading the same petulant immature drivel from self Loathing English neoLIEberal weasels running their country and its native inhabitants into the ground at every opportunity. Brexit is going to happen, it's not a question of if anymore, it's when and how! It's better all political persuasions accept this and work together collectively for the greater interests of the country and it's inhabitants rather than undermine and sabotage each other.. Brexit happened because natively English and British people were marginalised, ignored and told to shut up.. it is the result of an neglectful, ineffectual political establishment. it didn't happen because of a sinister undercurrent of "xenophobia" or some other equally trite clichéd orwellian newspeak epithet designed to stigmatise and silence dissenters of the German vanity Project aka the EU.. Of course it is preferable to have good relationships with the EU (for BOTH the UK and the "CON"federalist EU). Cameron pleaded for reforms and concessions but was rebuffed and told to push off at each turn!! Is that really democracy? Sounds more like a dictatorship. The UK has borne a disproportionate immigration burden (England especially!!). An Irish person commenting on England , criticising and even villifying? English people reacting to a set of untenable circumstances and voting leave is in extremely poor taste, considering! I want England to be a prosperous place as a healthy British economy is good for Ireland!! The EU benefits only wealthy parasites and their appetite for cheap labour to exploit and throw away. It is not a workers utopia.. Vocal bourgeoisie remoaner Luvvies worry there trips to their second and third homes on the continent will be in jeopardy.. boo hoo. | |||
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"They play under there own flags not the Union Jack and stop slaging of the Brits all the time that's all you do it was organized gangs and the police attacking Inocent English fans sum fought back as you wud but don't try make out they were as bad as the Russians ffs I'm not even English and I am tiring of reading the same petulant immature drivel from self Loathing English neoLIEberal weasels running their country and its native inhabitants into the ground at every opportunity. Brexit is going to happen, it's not a question of if anymore, it's when and how! It's better all political persuasions accept this and work together collectively for the greater interests of the country and it's inhabitants rather than undermine and sabotage each other.. Brexit happened because natively English and British people were marginalised, ignored and told to shut up.. it is the result of an neglectful, ineffectual political establishment. it didn't happen because of a sinister undercurrent of "xenophobia" or some other equally trite clichéd orwellian newspeak epithet designed to stigmatise and silence dissenters of the German vanity Project aka the EU.. Of course it is preferable to have good relationships with the EU (for BOTH the UK and the "CON"federalist EU). Cameron pleaded for reforms and concessions but was rebuffed and told to push off at each turn!! Is that really democracy? Sounds more like a dictatorship. The UK has borne a disproportionate immigration burden (England especially!!). An Irish person commenting on England , criticising and even villifying? English people reacting to a set of untenable circumstances and voting leave is in extremely poor taste, considering! I want England to be a prosperous place as a healthy British economy is good for Ireland!! The EU benefits only wealthy parasites and their appetite for cheap labour to exploit and throw away. It is not a workers utopia.. Vocal bourgeoisie remoaner Luvvies worry there trips to their second and third homes on the continent will be in jeopardy.. boo hoo. " which brings us back to the original question if one leader couldn't get anything from a membership club whilst paying 350 million a week into said club why do you people think a different leader could negotiate a better deal whilst not being be a member and not paying anything into the club? | |||
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"Rather it was closed, think a out it. EU, UN, IMF all about globalisation. UN are the world police/military. IMF finance! Politically not there yet. We are being turned in to Europeans, losing our British identity, political correctness prevents our opinions being heard, family values being corroded, our children being brought up in a compulsory school system that turns our children in to authority obeying robots! I know I sound like a looney, but do your research and you may agree. Take the Ancestry.com DNA test and come back to this post after you get the results. We are all European - like it or not" If you go back far enough in history you will find we all came out of Africa, but that is besides the point, we are living in the here and now not in the past. I see myself as English first, British 2nd and European last. I'll be happy to get rid of my current European passport and get a new British one as we leave the EU, the old European passports will be phased out for British ones here. | |||
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"They play under there own flags not the Union Jack and stop slaging of the Brits all the time that's all you do it was organized gangs and the police attacking Inocent English fans sum fought back as you wud but don't try make out they were as bad as the Russians ffs I'm not even English and I am tiring of reading the same petulant immature drivel from self Loathing English neoLIEberal weasels running their country and its native inhabitants into the ground at every opportunity. Brexit is going to happen, it's not a question of if anymore, it's when and how! It's better all political persuasions accept this and work together collectively for the greater interests of the country and it's inhabitants rather than undermine and sabotage each other.. Brexit happened because natively English and British people were marginalised, ignored and told to shut up.. it is the result of an neglectful, ineffectual political establishment. it didn't happen because of a sinister undercurrent of "xenophobia" or some other equally trite clichéd orwellian newspeak epithet designed to stigmatise and silence dissenters of the German vanity Project aka the EU.. Of course it is preferable to have good relationships with the EU (for BOTH the UK and the "CON"federalist EU). Cameron pleaded for reforms and concessions but was rebuffed and told to push off at each turn!! Is that really democracy? Sounds more like a dictatorship. The UK has borne a disproportionate immigration burden (England especially!!). An Irish person commenting on England , criticising and even villifying? English people reacting to a set of untenable circumstances and voting leave is in extremely poor taste, considering! I want England to be a prosperous place as a healthy British economy is good for Ireland!! The EU benefits only wealthy parasites and their appetite for cheap labour to exploit and throw away. It is not a workers utopia.. Vocal bourgeoisie remoaner Luvvies worry there trips to their second and third homes on the continent will be in jeopardy.. boo hoo. which brings us back to the original question if one leader couldn't get anything from a membership club whilst paying 350 million a week into said club why do you people think a different leader could negotiate a better deal whilst not being be a member and not paying anything into the club? " The EU is a glorified Ponzi scheme with pseudo disingenuous socialist blather tacked on to give it a veneer of acceptability. What was the sign over Auschwitz "work will set you free"? I don't fancy living in a Germans idea of dystopian workers paradise, thnx. If the EU want to cut their noses off to spite their face.. they will. Regardless there must be unity from all party's and a concerted effort to negotiate something workable . All the back biting shit is a distraction from the task at hand. | |||
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"Brexit: The good news stories just wont stop!! 89% of British people want a second citizenship and 60% believe having one would be better for their freedoms and human rights. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-dual-citizenship-european-union-countries-ireland-a7792971.html%3Famp EU stands firm and UK concedes that the talks will proceed as the EU wanted giving the EU a big early win. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-talks-to-start-on-eus-terms/amp/ More than half of skilled EU workers with a degree in the UK are planning on moving back to the EU before Brexit which would lead to a massive skills shortage in areas like healthcare. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-half-of-skilled-eu-workers-in-uk-to-leave-healthcare-brain-drain-a7790341.html%3famp Banks are planning on moving 9,000 jobs to the EU if Britain leaves the single market and customs union. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-hard-brexit-latest-news-soft-london-jobs-flight-eu-reduced-workers-a7793396.html%3famp 9 billion was wiped off the FTSE 250 after consumer spending plunges. The pounds devaluation has sent costs of imported goods higher leading to higher prices. Real value of wages is falling at the fastest rate in years. Quarter on quarter growth for the next 3 quarters is predicted to be 0.2%. The UK will be in recession if those 3 quarters performances fall below the very low expectations. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/15/uk-retail-sales-brexit-inflation-prices-pay-consumer-spending 100,000 jobs will be lost in Euro Clearing now the EU is making moves to take it away from London http://clicklancashire.com/2017/06/13/eu-outlines-plans-to-grab-uks-euro-securities-clearing.html The UK is now the slowest growth economy in all of the EU http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-economy-revenge-of-the-remoaners/ And finally the most important story of the day: Support for the EU has increased in 10 countries including the UK where 10% more Britons feel positively about the EU than a year ago...so how would that change the numbers in a referndum?? In fact in none of the 9 other countries surveyed did the anti EU crowd get more than 35%. The EU looks, to borrow a phrase, strong and stable. And if the Brexit referendum was re run today it looks like remain would win. http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN1962WI" 89% of British people want a second citizenship? Really? No one that I know has even considered or even mentioned such a thing. | |||
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"Brexit: The good news stories just wont stop!! 89% of British people want a second citizenship and 60% believe having one would be better for their freedoms and human rights. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-dual-citizenship-european-union-countries-ireland-a7792971.html%3Famp EU stands firm and UK concedes that the talks will proceed as the EU wanted giving the EU a big early win. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-talks-to-start-on-eus-terms/amp/ More than half of skilled EU workers with a degree in the UK are planning on moving back to the EU before Brexit which would lead to a massive skills shortage in areas like healthcare. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-half-of-skilled-eu-workers-in-uk-to-leave-healthcare-brain-drain-a7790341.html%3famp Banks are planning on moving 9,000 jobs to the EU if Britain leaves the single market and customs union. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-hard-brexit-latest-news-soft-london-jobs-flight-eu-reduced-workers-a7793396.html%3famp 9 billion was wiped off the FTSE 250 after consumer spending plunges. The pounds devaluation has sent costs of imported goods higher leading to higher prices. Real value of wages is falling at the fastest rate in years. Quarter on quarter growth for the next 3 quarters is predicted to be 0.2%. The UK will be in recession if those 3 quarters performances fall below the very low expectations. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/15/uk-retail-sales-brexit-inflation-prices-pay-consumer-spending 100,000 jobs will be lost in Euro Clearing now the EU is making moves to take it away from London http://clicklancashire.com/2017/06/13/eu-outlines-plans-to-grab-uks-euro-securities-clearing.html The UK is now the slowest growth economy in all of the EU http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-economy-revenge-of-the-remoaners/ And finally the most important story of the day: Support for the EU has increased in 10 countries including the UK where 10% more Britons feel positively about the EU than a year ago...so how would that change the numbers in a referndum?? In fact in none of the 9 other countries surveyed did the anti EU crowd get more than 35%. The EU looks, to borrow a phrase, strong and stable. And if the Brexit referendum was re run today it looks like remain would win. http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN1962WI" Selectively cherry picking to underpin a fantasy not mirrored by reality = more distraction and useless Segways into a realm of make-believe. Anyone anything constructive to add that isn't sycophantic propaganda consisting of cynically cherry picked articles ? Blah. | |||
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"Why does this guy gloat over any bad news for the uk yr Irish for gods sake you probably AV relatives in the uk so why do you hate the uk so much ?" I dont, you just think that anyone who thinks different to you must hate you. The UK still has a chance to avoid financial disaster and they should grab it with both hands. Instead of blindly labelling anything that shows Brexit isnt working and isnt going to work as hateful maybe lets try something else. Lets try a thought excercise. It will require some imagination on your part but if Spongebob Squarepants can muster it Im sure you can too. Imagine for a second you could look into a real live working crystal ball. Imagine that you saw Britains future and you saw recession, spiralling unemployment, social payments getting out of hand, funding for the NHS dropping as costs continue to increase, the value of the pound dropping further and cost of living increasing for everyone. Child poverty is rising, homelessness is on the increase, businesses are closing daily. Its a worse economic situation than the 2008 recession. You dont agree its going to happen but for right now we're imagining. So your crystal ball tells you all this. What would you do in this imaginary scenario? Would you keep telling everyone that Brexit is going to work out fine? Would stand by and say nothing at all? Or would you say to people that theres an incoming financial disaster and it should be avoided? I dont have a crystal ball but what I do have are facts that say jobs will be leaving the UK because theyve already been abnounced, the cost of living is rising, the UKs growth is slowing almost to a standstill and consumer spending is down. These are all things that happen before a recession, not before a spurt of economic growth. Do you understand now why Im pointing out the facts as they are? Or did your imagination fail you and you still dont get it? | |||
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"Brexit: The good news stories just wont stop!! 89% of British people want a second citizenship and 60% believe having one would be better for their freedoms and human rights. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-dual-citizenship-european-union-countries-ireland-a7792971.html%3Famp EU stands firm and UK concedes that the talks will proceed as the EU wanted giving the EU a big early win. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-talks-to-start-on-eus-terms/amp/ More than half of skilled EU workers with a degree in the UK are planning on moving back to the EU before Brexit which would lead to a massive skills shortage in areas like healthcare. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-half-of-skilled-eu-workers-in-uk-to-leave-healthcare-brain-drain-a7790341.html%3famp Banks are planning on moving 9,000 jobs to the EU if Britain leaves the single market and customs union. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-hard-brexit-latest-news-soft-london-jobs-flight-eu-reduced-workers-a7793396.html%3famp 9 billion was wiped off the FTSE 250 after consumer spending plunges. The pounds devaluation has sent costs of imported goods higher leading to higher prices. Real value of wages is falling at the fastest rate in years. Quarter on quarter growth for the next 3 quarters is predicted to be 0.2%. The UK will be in recession if those 3 quarters performances fall below the very low expectations. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/15/uk-retail-sales-brexit-inflation-prices-pay-consumer-spending 100,000 jobs will be lost in Euro Clearing now the EU is making moves to take it away from London http://clicklancashire.com/2017/06/13/eu-outlines-plans-to-grab-uks-euro-securities-clearing.html The UK is now the slowest growth economy in all of the EU http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-economy-revenge-of-the-remoaners/ And finally the most important story of the day: Support for the EU has increased in 10 countries including the UK where 10% more Britons feel positively about the EU than a year ago...so how would that change the numbers in a referndum?? In fact in none of the 9 other countries surveyed did the anti EU crowd get more than 35%. The EU looks, to borrow a phrase, strong and stable. And if the Brexit referendum was re run today it looks like remain would win. http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN1962WI Selectively cherry picking to underpin a fantasy not mirrored by reality = more distraction and useless Segways into a realm of make-believe. Anyone anything constructive to add that isn't sycophantic propaganda consisting of cynically cherry picked articles ? Blah." Its segue, Segway is a brand of personal transport that looks as ridiculous as someone trying to sound smart and failing. You my xenophobic friend are the one in a fantasy land dismissing facts like slowing economic growth, billions wiped off the FTSE 250, plummeting value of real wages and higher inflation as "cherry picked". These are the hard numbers that underpin the UK economy. They cant be cherry picked or spun or made suit any agenda. They are what they are. You just dont want to accept them because it bursts your little bubble. Numbers dont lie. Brexit is damaging the economy. As Brexiters are fond of saying: Accept it. | |||
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"Why does this guy gloat over any bad news for the uk yr Irish for gods sake you probably AV relatives in the uk so why do you hate the uk so much ? I dont, you just think that anyone who thinks different to you must hate you. The UK still has a chance to avoid financial disaster and they should grab it with both hands. Instead of blindly labelling anything that shows Brexit isnt working and isnt going to work as hateful maybe lets try something else. Lets try a thought excercise. It will require some imagination on your part but if Spongebob Squarepants can muster it Im sure you can too. Imagine for a second you could look into a real live working crystal ball. Imagine that you saw Britains future and you saw recession, spiralling unemployment, social payments getting out of hand, funding for the NHS dropping as costs continue to increase, the value of the pound dropping further and cost of living increasing for everyone. Child poverty is rising, homelessness is on the increase, businesses are closing daily. Its a worse economic situation than the 2008 recession. You dont agree its going to happen but for right now we're imagining. So your crystal ball tells you all this. What would you do in this imaginary scenario? Would you keep telling everyone that Brexit is going to work out fine? Would stand by and say nothing at all? Or would you say to people that theres an incoming financial disaster and it should be avoided? I dont have a crystal ball but what I do have are facts that say jobs will be leaving the UK because theyve already been abnounced, the cost of living is rising, the UKs growth is slowing almost to a standstill and consumer spending is down. These are all things that happen before a recession, not before a spurt of economic growth. Do you understand now why Im pointing out the facts as they are? Or did your imagination fail you and you still dont get it?" Your are gloating and OVER stepping your bounds. You're not from the UK.. your behaviour illustrates perfectly the ill founded entitlement and meddling that resulted in brexit. Can you imagine the backlash if an English or British person DARED to pass comment on an issue in the republic of Ireland?!! step off. Your country has many problems of its own, perhaps concern yourself with those instead of trying to make use of what appears to be a third rate politics degree ... Disgraceful. | |||
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"Why does this guy gloat over any bad news for the uk yr Irish for gods sake you probably AV relatives in the uk so why do you hate the uk so much ? I dont, you just think that anyone who thinks different to you must hate you. The UK still has a chance to avoid financial disaster and they should grab it with both hands. Instead of blindly labelling anything that shows Brexit isnt working and isnt going to work as hateful maybe lets try something else. Lets try a thought excercise. It will require some imagination on your part but if Spongebob Squarepants can muster it Im sure you can too. Imagine for a second you could look into a real live working crystal ball. Imagine that you saw Britains future and you saw recession, spiralling unemployment, social payments getting out of hand, funding for the NHS dropping as costs continue to increase, the value of the pound dropping further and cost of living increasing for everyone. Child poverty is rising, homelessness is on the increase, businesses are closing daily. Its a worse economic situation than the 2008 recession. You dont agree its going to happen but for right now we're imagining. So your crystal ball tells you all this. What would you do in this imaginary scenario? Would you keep telling everyone that Brexit is going to work out fine? Would stand by and say nothing at all? Or would you say to people that theres an incoming financial disaster and it should be avoided? I dont have a crystal ball but what I do have are facts that say jobs will be leaving the UK because theyve already been abnounced, the cost of living is rising, the UKs growth is slowing almost to a standstill and consumer spending is down. These are all things that happen before a recession, not before a spurt of economic growth. Do you understand now why Im pointing out the facts as they are? Or did your imagination fail you and you still dont get it? Your are gloating and OVER stepping your bounds. You're not from the UK.. your behaviour illustrates perfectly the ill founded entitlement and meddling that resulted in brexit. Can you imagine the backlash if an English or British person DARED to pass comment on an issue in the republic of Ireland?!! step off. Your country has many problems of its own, perhaps concern yourself with those instead of trying to make use of what appears to be a third rate politics degree ... Disgraceful. " Im not over stepping any bounds sweetie because I set my bounds, not you. In Ireland we're perfectly happy to hear differing opinions, we're not quite as thin skinned as you seem to be. Its fascinating to see the Brexiters throw their toys out of the pram and try all they can to silence and dismiss facts and figures that prove their Brexit utopia is as likely as my fantasy to bang Natalie Portman. If you disagree lets see if you can put your big boy pants on and discuss like a rational adult. Or you could keep trying to pretend that the inflation figures, consumer spending, FTSE250 and economic growth figures arent really real for some reason, attack a few minorities and storm out of the thread like a bad tempered teenager. | |||
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"Rather it was closed, think a out it. EU, UN, IMF all about globalisation. UN are the world police/military. IMF finance! Politically not there yet. We are being turned in to Europeans, losing our British identity, political correctness prevents our opinions being heard, family values being corroded, our children being brought up in a compulsory school system that turns our children in to authority obeying robots! I know I sound like a looney, but do your research and you may agree. Take the Ancestry.com DNA test and come back to this post after you get the results. We are all European - like it or not He isn't talking about biology, he's talking about cultural identity. Don't be so glib? " What makes cultural identity if not the culture of the people who themselves are a cocktail of cultures. | |||
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"Rather it was closed, think a out it. EU, UN, IMF all about globalisation. UN are the world police/military. IMF finance! Politically not there yet. We are being turned in to Europeans, losing our British identity, political correctness prevents our opinions being heard, family values being corroded, our children being brought up in a compulsory school system that turns our children in to authority obeying robots! I know I sound like a looney, but do your research and you may agree. Take the Ancestry.com DNA test and come back to this post after you get the results. We are all European - like it or not He isn't talking about biology, he's talking about cultural identity. Don't be so glib? What makes cultural identity if not the culture of the people who themselves are a cocktail of cultures." a molotov cocktail in the making.. maybe. | |||
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"Brexit: The good news stories just wont stop!! 89% of British people want a second citizenship and 60% believe having one would be better for their freedoms and human rights. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-dual-citizenship-european-union-countries-ireland-a7792971.html%3Famp EU stands firm and UK concedes that the talks will proceed as the EU wanted giving the EU a big early win. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-talks-to-start-on-eus-terms/amp/ More than half of skilled EU workers with a degree in the UK are planning on moving back to the EU before Brexit which would lead to a massive skills shortage in areas like healthcare. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-half-of-skilled-eu-workers-in-uk-to-leave-healthcare-brain-drain-a7790341.html%3famp Banks are planning on moving 9,000 jobs to the EU if Britain leaves the single market and customs union. https://www.google.ie/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-hard-brexit-latest-news-soft-london-jobs-flight-eu-reduced-workers-a7793396.html%3famp 9 billion was wiped off the FTSE 250 after consumer spending plunges. The pounds devaluation has sent costs of imported goods higher leading to higher prices. Real value of wages is falling at the fastest rate in years. Quarter on quarter growth for the next 3 quarters is predicted to be 0.2%. The UK will be in recession if those 3 quarters performances fall below the very low expectations. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/15/uk-retail-sales-brexit-inflation-prices-pay-consumer-spending 100,000 jobs will be lost in Euro Clearing now the EU is making moves to take it away from London http://clicklancashire.com/2017/06/13/eu-outlines-plans-to-grab-uks-euro-securities-clearing.html The UK is now the slowest growth economy in all of the EU http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-economy-revenge-of-the-remoaners/ And finally the most important story of the day: Support for the EU has increased in 10 countries including the UK where 10% more Britons feel positively about the EU than a year ago...so how would that change the numbers in a referndum?? In fact in none of the 9 other countries surveyed did the anti EU crowd get more than 35%. The EU looks, to borrow a phrase, strong and stable. And if the Brexit referendum was re run today it looks like remain would win. http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN1962WI" Blimey, George Osborne has a profile on fab and he's pretending to be an Irishman.
Does your cracked crystal ball still project forwards to the year 2030? | |||
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" Blimey, George Osborne has a profile on fab and he's pretending to be an Irishman.
Does your cracked crystal ball still project forwards to the year 2030? "George could only be so lucky as to be Irish
The wheels are coming off the Brexit train Centaur! Did you notice Davis' embarrassing come down after claiming he'd fight all summer to get the timetable he wanted and he releases on friday afternoon that instead he's capitulated and is now doing what he's told.
Ive been telling you for months that the EUs negotiating position is so strong that they'll be dictating how talks proceed and thats whats happened. Like it or not anyone with any experience in negotiating knows that completely giving way on the first major point without any concessions is a major blow and sets the tone for the rest of the negotiations. | |||
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" Blimey, George Osborne has a profile on fab and he's pretending to be an Irishman.
Does your cracked crystal ball still project forwards to the year 2030?
George could only be so lucky as to be Irish
The wheels are coming off the Brexit train Centaur! Did you notice Davis' embarrassing come down after claiming he'd fight all summer to get the timetable he wanted and he releases on friday afternoon that instead he's capitulated and is now doing what he's told.
Ive been telling you for months that the EUs negotiating position is so strong that they'll be dictating how talks proceed and thats whats happened. Like it or not anyone with any experience in negotiating knows that completely giving way on the first major point without any concessions is a major blow and sets the tone for the rest of the negotiations."The timetable for negotiations was set months ago and was always due to start on Monday. Just earlier this week you were saying the UK are not ready and will delay until after Monday, looks like you were wrong and Theresa May and David Davis have both said talks will start on Monday as originally planned, looks like your crystal ball has gone off the rails already
The end result will still be the same anyway and that will be the UK out of the wretched EU. Bring it on the sooner this is done the better. Roll on March 2019, I'll happily do a Goodbye EU thread just for you, ok. | |||
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Back to the theme of the thread, the electorate have chosen to leave the EU. It's time for unity and cooperation amongst all parties concerned to pull together , outline exit criteria terms and get on with the task of negotiation.
Commiseration and generally behaving like a spoilt infant is not a useful investment of energy.
Again.. the British electorate have choose to leave.
What the republic of Ireland decide to do (as they are a sovereign nation ) regarding the EU is their affair. | |||
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" Blimey, George Osborne has a profile on fab and he's pretending to be an Irishman.
Does your cracked crystal ball still project forwards to the year 2030?
George could only be so lucky as to be Irish
The wheels are coming off the Brexit train Centaur! Did you notice Davis' embarrassing come down after claiming he'd fight all summer to get the timetable he wanted and he releases on friday afternoon that instead he's capitulated and is now doing what he's told.
Ive been telling you for months that the EUs negotiating position is so strong that they'll be dictating how talks proceed and thats whats happened. Like it or not anyone with any experience in negotiating knows that completely giving way on the first major point without any concessions is a major blow and sets the tone for the rest of the negotiations.
The timetable for negotiations was set months ago and was always due to start on Monday. Just earlier this week you were saying the UK are not ready and will delay until after Monday, looks like you were wrong and Theresa May and David Davis have both said talks will start on Monday as originally planned, looks like your crystal ball has gone off the rails already
The end result will still be the same anyway and that will be the UK out of the wretched EU. Bring it on the sooner this is done the better. Roll on March 2019, I'll happily do a Goodbye EU thread just for you, ok. "Just for me? Im touched. Well the timetable I was referring to was the schedule of talks. Trade is last and the UKs divorce bill is first. Bad result for the UK negotiating team. And the confusion of when talks would start were because Davis said they were delayed and then he did a u-turn and said they would start on time. The tories must be getting dizzy!! | |||
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"Again, I would suggest you invest the same level of scrutiny regarding the UK into your place of origin. The republic of Ireland is hardly a glimmering beacon or example of anything worth emulating. Good luck with that .
Back to the theme of the thread, the electorate have chosen to leave the EU. It's time for unity and cooperation amongst all parties concerned to pull together , outline exit criteria terms and get on with the task of negotiation.
Commiseration and generally behaving like a spoilt infant is not a useful investment of energy.
Again.. the British electorate have choose to leave.
What the republic of Ireland decide to do (as they are a sovereign nation ) regarding the EU is their affair. "We're quite happy here in Ireland. Suns shining and our economic future looks strong and we've got the whole EU focused on issues we care about. So dont worry your little head about us. 
The theme of the thread is that the EU will allow Britain to perform one of those u-turns the May government has become known for and to remain in the EU. As the numbers shown in this thread prove its clearly the right choice.
Currently youre deiving the wrong way down the road telling your passengers to pull together and back the decision to drive away from your goals and into oncoming traffic and failing to see why people are trying to convince you to turn around. | |||
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" Blimey, George Osborne has a profile on fab and he's pretending to be an Irishman.
Does your cracked crystal ball still project forwards to the year 2030?
George could only be so lucky as to be Irish
The wheels are coming off the Brexit train Centaur! Did you notice Davis' embarrassing come down after claiming he'd fight all summer to get the timetable he wanted and he releases on friday afternoon that instead he's capitulated and is now doing what he's told.
Ive been telling you for months that the EUs negotiating position is so strong that they'll be dictating how talks proceed and thats whats happened. Like it or not anyone with any experience in negotiating knows that completely giving way on the first major point without any concessions is a major blow and sets the tone for the rest of the negotiations.
The timetable for negotiations was set months ago and was always due to start on Monday. Just earlier this week you were saying the UK are not ready and will delay until after Monday, looks like you were wrong and Theresa May and David Davis have both said talks will start on Monday as originally planned, looks like your crystal ball has gone off the rails already
The end result will still be the same anyway and that will be the UK out of the wretched EU. Bring it on the sooner this is done the better. Roll on March 2019, I'll happily do a Goodbye EU thread just for you, ok.
Just for me? Im touched.
Well the timetable I was referring to was the schedule of talks. Trade is last and the UKs divorce bill is first. Bad result for the UK negotiating team. And the confusion of when talks would start were because Davis said they were delayed and then he did a u-turn and said they would start on time. The tories must be getting dizzy!!"It really doesn't matter if they discuss trade or the divorce bill first, you are attempting to make mountains out of mole hills here, it really is quite laughable stuff but please continue if it makes you feel better it is very entertaining
If the EU demand silly money like £100 billion then the talks won't go any further, the UK will simply refuse to pay it.
Besides even if a divorce bill is agreed first (say £10 billion for arguments sake) then the talks will move onto trade and if a trade agreement is not acceptable to the UK later all the UK has to do is say "that divorce bill we agreed earlier, you won't be getting a penny of it!".
Sorry but you would be a terrible negotiator, it's clear you couldn't negotiate your way out of a paper bag. | |||
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"Besides even if a divorce bill is agreed first (say £10 billion for arguments sake) then the talks will move onto trade and if a trade agreement is not acceptable to the UK later all the UK has to do is say "that divorce bill we agreed earlier, you won't be getting a penny of it!..." "... now we're taking our ball and going home so ner" | |||
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"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016
But the violent trouble makers were from Russia and Britain though, right? Brits were the only fans who caused so much trouble that tear gas was required 3 seperate times.
While obviously they are a minority and most British people just want to see their teams do well or holiday in peace as the case may be the fact remains that British people abroad have a certain reputation and a minority do keep that alive."you are confusing english with british .... not an easy mistake to make either to be fair .... your confusion would lead the casual reader of your posts to believe one of two choices ... your sense of geography is crap or you are deliberately trolling | |||
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" It really doesn't matter if they discuss trade or the divorce bill first, you are attempting to make mountains out of mole hills here, it really is quite laughable stuff but please continue if it makes you feel better it is very entertaining
If the EU demand silly money like £100 billion then the talks won't go any further, the UK will simply refuse to pay it.
Besides even if a divorce bill is agreed first (say £10 billion for arguments sake) then the talks will move onto trade and if a trade agreement is not acceptable to the UK later all the UK has to do is say "that divorce bill we agreed earlier, you won't be getting a penny of it!".
Sorry but you would be a terrible negotiator, it's clear you couldn't negotiate your way out of a paper bag. "We both know very well that it matters. Thats why Davis said he'd fight all summer long and the EU said that if the UK didnt agree that they'd postpone negotiations for 12 months. You think that happens over a moot point? The reason it matters is that doing the divorce bill first takes away all leverage the UK has. What can they counter a demand for 100bn with? Cant offer trade, concessions on Northern Ireland or rights for EU citizens. That all comes later. Agreeing the bill first puts the UK at a huge disadvantage. Even the disastrous negotiating team know this and thats why they fought before capitulating. Not to mention that complete surrender on the first point of negotiation is a devastating blow. And actually Ive been negotiating deals for over 10 years and Im quite good at it. I know when and what to concede and when to force my side. Ive actually held record high margins on deals that havent been beaten (if Im allowed to blow my own trumpet a bit )
The UK will be paying 50bn+ on their divorce bill, Id nearly guarantee it. I wouldnt even be surprised in the slightest if it was 80bn+.
And if you still have faith that the UK negotiating team is gonna better the EU team then that faith should have been wiped out after Davis' embarrassing surrender on the time table which weakens his teams position even further.
Youre going to end up so disappointed in this deal Centaur. | |||
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"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016
But the violent trouble makers were from Russia and Britain though, right? Brits were the only fans who caused so much trouble that tear gas was required 3 seperate times.
While obviously they are a minority and most British people just want to see their teams do well or holiday in peace as the case may be the fact remains that British people abroad have a certain reputation and a minority do keep that alive.
you are confusing english with british .... not an easy mistake to make either to be fair .... your confusion would lead the casual reader of your posts to believe one of two choices ... your sense of geography is crap or you are deliberately trolling"Before you attempt to distance yourself from the English as a Welshman, then it was the Welsh and the English who fought against Russian Hooligans during Euro 2016. | |||
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"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016
But the violent trouble makers were from Russia and Britain though, right? Brits were the only fans who caused so much trouble that tear gas was required 3 seperate times.
While obviously they are a minority and most British people just want to see their teams do well or holiday in peace as the case may be the fact remains that British people abroad have a certain reputation and a minority do keep that alive.
you are confusing english with british .... not an easy mistake to make either to be fair .... your confusion would lead the casual reader of your posts to believe one of two choices ... your sense of geography is crap or you are deliberately trolling"If you read the context of the original post it was a British poster accusing the Irish of toxic nationalism as compared to British people. English people are British and England is part of Britain. Its ridiculous for someone to say Irish nationalism is toxic compared to British nationalism when the English, who are a part of Britain, are regularly violently nationalistic. If a group of Cork people go on a violent nationalistic crime spree the rest of the country wouldnt shrug its shoulders and say "Oh well, theyre from Cork, that doesnt count as Irish". But to play into your semantic argument on the words used. The people who cause this trouble are ones who would very strongly identify as British. You'll see them regularly with Union Jacks and chanting about being British. | |||
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"The British go abroad and cause trouble. Or do you not remember how Euro 2016 went? ... the way it went was, the Welsh and Northern Irish fans were given a special award for their 'outstanding contribution' to euro 2016
But the violent trouble makers were from Russia and Britain though, right? Brits were the only fans who caused so much trouble that tear gas was required 3 seperate times.
While obviously they are a minority and most British people just want to see their teams do well or holiday in peace as the case may be the fact remains that British people abroad have a certain reputation and a minority do keep that alive.
you are confusing english with british .... not an easy mistake to make either to be fair .... your confusion would lead the casual reader of your posts to believe one of two choices ... your sense of geography is crap or you are deliberately trolling
Before you attempt to distance yourself from the English as a Welshman, then it was the Welsh and the English who fought against Russian Hooligans during Euro 2016. "and that's why the welsh recieved an award from euefa .... yeah right | |||
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" It really doesn't matter if they discuss trade or the divorce bill first, you are attempting to make mountains out of mole hills here, it really is quite laughable stuff but please continue if it makes you feel better it is very entertaining
If the EU demand silly money like £100 billion then the talks won't go any further, the UK will simply refuse to pay it.
Besides even if a divorce bill is agreed first (say £10 billion for arguments sake) then the talks will move onto trade and if a trade agreement is not acceptable to the UK later all the UK has to do is say "that divorce bill we agreed earlier, you won't be getting a penny of it!".
Sorry but you would be a terrible negotiator, it's clear you couldn't negotiate your way out of a paper bag.
We both know very well that it matters. Thats why Davis said he'd fight all summer long and the EU said that if the UK didnt agree that they'd postpone negotiations for 12 months. You think that happens over a moot point?
The reason it matters is that doing the divorce bill first takes away all leverage the UK has. What can they counter a demand for 100bn with? Cant offer trade, concessions on Northern Ireland or rights for EU citizens. That all comes later. Agreeing the bill first puts the UK at a huge disadvantage. Even the disastrous negotiating team know this and thats why they fought before capitulating. Not to mention that complete surrender on the first point of negotiation is a devastating blow.
And actually Ive been negotiating deals for over 10 years and Im quite good at it. I know when and what to concede and when to force my side. Ive actually held record high margins on deals that havent been beaten (if Im allowed to blow my own trumpet a bit )
The UK will be paying 50bn+ on their divorce bill, Id nearly guarantee it. I wouldnt even be surprised in the slightest if it was 80bn+.
And if you still have faith that the UK negotiating team is gonna better the EU team then that faith should have been wiped out after Davis' embarrassing surrender on the time table which weakens his teams position even further.
Youre going to end up so disappointed in this deal Centaur."You are completely wrong in your assumptions then, because we are leaving and we will leave the EU, i'll be very happy about that what ever the deal looks like. Anything is better than being in it as far as i'm concerned, and many others in the uk feel the same way such is the level of revulsion and contempt that the EU is held in here. As i've said multiple times before on here, i'd be happy for the uk to walk away without a deal and the uk will walk away before it pays anything like the £50 billion you just plucked out of thin air. . As for negotiating your own deals, then deals on pokemon cards with your mates really doesn't count, who exactly are you trying to impress here, i could'nt care less what you do for a living. There also seems to be a number of contradictions in your post. Angela Merkel says first thing on the agenda in the negotiation is the rights of EU citizens in the UK (and vice versa Uk citizens in the EU), but you say it will be the divorce bill? Can't be both can it? Too Hot (who is a remainer) just pointed out that there is no such thing as a 'divorce bill' but i see you conveniently skipped over that anyway. You also have pretty much everyone in the EU saying how eager they are to get the negotiations started, Juncker, Tusk, Michel Barnier, etc, saying they are getting frustrated and want to start as soon as possible, they can't negotiate with themselves, blah, blah, blah, then on the other hand you say they will postpone the talks for the next 12 months? I'd say rather than the tories heads being in a spin, it is the EU's negotiating team who are in a spin, sounds like they don't know if they are coming or going. That is the problem with the EU, it is too big of an organisation to take effective control over matters at hand, and this is why you have Merkel saying one thing and Barnier saying another about how negotiations will start, it sounds like the tail is wagging the dog in many areas of the EU, its just a matter of time before the classic EU conflicts of interest arise and you will have the 27 member countries squabbling amongst themselves about what they want from the deal. | |||
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