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The British Tax system explained

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I saw this last week and thought it explained our wonderful taxation system brilliantly, and so I thought I would share with you all

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay £1.

The sixth would pay £3.

The seventh would pay £7.

The eighth would pay £12.

The ninth would pay £18.

And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).

The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).

The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).

The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).

The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).

And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).

Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats very good

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I've just read through it again and i've found a slight problem and I'm begining to wonder if Dianne Abbot was involved in divying up the savings.

If you look at how the £20 saving is distributed, it actually comes out to £21.

Chap 5 saves £1

Chap 6 also saves £1

Chap 7 saves £2

Chap 8 saves £3

Chap 9 saves £4

and Chap 9 saves £10

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seems very quiet

Lots of people must be doing their sums now

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

You missed the 1% that who pay 1% and the top .0000002% that just don't need to pay tax because they are way too wealthy to have to do that sort of thing...

Only little people pay tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've just read through it again and i've found a slight problem and I'm begining to wonder if Dianne Abbot was involved in divying up the savings.

If you look at how the £20 saving is distributed, it actually comes out to £21.

Chap 5 saves £1

Chap 6 also saves £1

Chap 7 saves £2

Chap 8 saves £3

Chap 9 saves £4

and Chap 9 saves £10

"

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).

The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).

The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).

The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).

The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).

And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).

Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You're counting 6 men still paying something, but it's only 5 in the end making thr £20 savings

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Then they all club together, engage a smart arse tax lawyer and then they all pay next to nothing!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if you're using USA tax codes from 5 decades ago when this was first used on that TV talk show all well and good .... but complete bullshit for present in the UK so if you pretend that you understand it then you're a bullshitter to be fair

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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago

Chester

I'd love to see a modern version of this. Because people are still going to yell about tax breaks for the rich. It must be true, they saw it on Facebook.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its the whole point of why we set down the road of Vat taxation in the first place... It favours the wealthier

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"You're counting 6 men still paying something, but it's only 5 in the end making thr £20 savings"

No. Look again. The 5th man now pays nothing, but was paying £1 - therefore he has made a saving of £1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You're counting 6 men still paying something, but it's only 5 in the end making thr £20 savings

No. Look again. The 5th man now pays nothing, but was paying £1 - therefore he has made a saving of £1

"

no. look again. this was from the USA in 1971-2

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ten men usually go down the pub on a Wed.

Two don't turn up because they have just lost their jobs because their employer is unsure about brexit.

Another two don't turn up because the only job they can get is down to zero hour contracts so they can't affoard a few drinks.

Another two don't turn up because they are looking after the kids while their partners go to work to try and combine their wage for a decent standard of living.

Another two don't turn up because they have not had a pay rise in years despite their bosses pocketed double didgit pay awards.

The two that did turn up only could affoard half pints because the chancellor keeps puting tax on beer despite having a subsidised bar in the house of commons.

The tax rises are for " health of the nation " reasons not to fill the coffers though.

Next week they all stay home and watched coronation street as the pub went out of business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go back 40 years and take a person on say £100 a week paying the bottom level of income tax at %35

£65 left which you near enough spend every week just living and putting a fiver away, vat at 5%, very little fuel duty, no insurance tax, no vat on energy, much smaller national insurance contribution.. so on your £60 spend ,£3 of tax.

Total tax paid £38 with lets say an effective tax rate of 38%

.

Scale this up to say £500 a week paying 25% income tax your paying £125 in tax leaving you with £375, less your 10% ni £325

Roughly putting the same % away for savings call it £35 your left with £290 which you spend just like 40 years ago but now that 290 pretty much has 20% of Vat on or at least some 5-7.5% of insurance tax and then there's fuel duty and energy duty.. The little guy who you think was somehow getting a great deal is in reality it paying double taxation than he did 40 years ago in % terms. I would imagine it's at least somewhere effectively around 50-70% tax depending on whether they drive a bit or drink a bit or smoke a bit or live in a crappy uninsulated flat.

Where as the wealthier person who was paying 70% income tax is now paying 45% income tax and is more than likely claiming alot of his or her vat/fuel duty back through their business... Their effective tax rate has reduced greatly.

And thats before we even get into CT tax which has fallen from 50% to 18% in those 40 years...

If anybody ever wants an actual parody of crazyness, the beetles wrote a song about the tax man putting them into poverty while buying rolls Royces and driving them into swimming pools.. We were so broke under those old tax rules we could barely afford drugs and hookers and smashing up hotel rooms

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"Ten men usually go down the pub on a Wed.

Two don't turn up because they have just lost their jobs because their employer is unsure about brexit.

Another two don't turn up because the only job they can get is down to zero hour contracts so they can't affoard a few drinks.

Another two don't turn up because they are looking after the kids while their partners go to work to try and combine their wage for a decent standard of living.

Another two don't turn up because they have not had a pay rise in years despite their bosses pocketed double didgit pay awards.

The two that did turn up only could affoard half pints because the chancellor keeps puting tax on beer despite having a subsidised bar in the house of commons.

The tax rises are for " health of the nation " reasons not to fill the coffers though.

Next week they all stay home and watched coronation street as the pub went out of business."

I like this.

I do love the passive agressive final two sentences of the OP though.

I'm sure everyone "understands" the point, however much of a masive load of bollocks it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ten men usually go down the pub on a Wed.

Two don't turn up because they have just lost their jobs because their employer is unsure about brexit.

Another two don't turn up because the only job they can get is down to zero hour contracts so they can't affoard a few drinks.

Another two don't turn up because they are looking after the kids while their partners go to work to try and combine their wage for a decent standard of living.

Another two don't turn up because they have not had a pay rise in years despite their bosses pocketed double didgit pay awards.

The two that did turn up only could affoard half pints because the chancellor keeps puting tax on beer despite having a subsidised bar in the house of commons.

The tax rises are for " health of the nation " reasons not to fill the coffers though.

Next week they all stay home and watched coronation street as the pub went out of business.

I like this.

I do love the passive agressive final two sentences of the OP though.

I'm sure everyone "understands" the point, however much of a masive load of bollocks it is. "

Same as the shite the OP came out with.

Tax can't be simplified into a stupid story

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I saw this last week and thought it explained our wonderful taxation system brilliantly, and so I thought I would share with you all

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay £1.

The sixth would pay £3.

The seventh would pay £7.

The eighth would pay £12.

The ninth would pay £18.

And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).

The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).

The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).

The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).

The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).

And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).

Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible."

What if they were all paid the same? Does the same simple story favour communism or our tax system?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You're counting 6 men still paying something, but it's only 5 in the end making thr £20 savings

No. Look again. The 5th man now pays nothing, but was paying £1 - therefore he has made a saving of £1

no. look again. this was from the USA in 1971-2"

Ha i thought it was something new and relevant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go back 40 years and take a person on say £100 a week paying the bottom level of income tax at %35

£65 left which you near enough spend every week just living and putting a fiver away, vat at 5%, very little fuel duty, no insurance tax, no vat on energy, much smaller national insurance contribution.. so on your £60 spend ,£3 of tax.

Total tax paid £38 with lets say an effective tax rate of 38%

.

Scale this up to say £500 a week paying 25% income tax your paying £125 in tax leaving you with £375, less your 10% ni £325

Roughly putting the same % away for savings call it £35 your left with £290 which you spend just like 40 years ago but now that 290 pretty much has 20% of Vat on or at least some 5-7.5% of insurance tax and then there's fuel duty and energy duty.. The little guy who you think was somehow getting a great deal is in reality it paying double taxation than he did 40 years ago in % terms. I would imagine it's at least somewhere effectively around 50-70% tax depending on whether they drive a bit or drink a bit or smoke a bit or live in a crappy uninsulated flat.

Where as the wealthier person who was paying 70% income tax is now paying 45% income tax and is more than likely claiming alot of his or her vat/fuel duty back through their business... Their effective tax rate has reduced greatly.

And thats before we even get into CT tax which has fallen from 50% to 18% in those 40 years...

If anybody ever wants an actual parody of crazyness, the beetles wrote a song about the tax man putting them into poverty while buying rolls Royces and driving them into swimming pools.. We were so broke under those old tax rules we could barely afford drugs and hookers and smashing up hotel rooms "

That assumes the wealthy business owner puts all his living expenses as business expenses. Time to recheck the maths

The lesson being... Be the house, not the gambler

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The wealthy business person... Scraped away with no consistent income or social welfare working 12 to 16 hr says and weekends for years until he or she finally got the business to grow, all while everyone else was enjoying themselves down the pub

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you are in the main falling on deaf ears OP. They seem to have missed the point completely. They try to explain it as a maths error.

The fact is the rich man has buggered off and is no longer drinking with them.

Not very nice getting beaten up is it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yeah but the fact remains that No.10 has buggered off and left 1-9 to buy the next round. Don't you see that is the real moral of the story. It's not about maths, injustice or even the price of beer.

It's just No.10 got a bit miffed about being called a toff scrounger, having his face filled with a bunch of 5s so decided to get on his Bike and take his custom elsewhere and stick 2 fingers up at his mates.

So all you people banging on about all these other things completely miss the point. Ha Ha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

"

In Ireland we have a very proportional system where everyone gets screwed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yeah but the fact remains that No.10 has buggered off and left 1-9 to buy the next round. Don't you see that is the real moral of the story. It's not about maths, injustice or even the price of beer.

It's just No.10 got a bit miffed about being called a toff scrounger, having his face filled with a bunch of 5s so decided to get on his Bike and take his custom elsewhere and stick 2 fingers up at his mates.

So all you people banging on about all these other things completely miss the point. Ha Ha"
.

They only do this because we fucking let them do it, we let them become non domiciled but still have access to the UK, we let them move their UK generated wealth abroad without paying they're taxs, we let them still have influence at high political levels in the UK despite fucking off abroad!!!.

When you let people get away with it... Being human they tend to do it!.

What we could do about Facebook and Starbucks is exactly what China does, if you don't wanna play the game then fucking do one and take your business elsewhere and you know what!! Capitalism being capitalism, somebody else is willing to do it in China and play the fucking game of paying your fucking taxs like everybody else does... Except Philip fucking green who's a cunt and fucks off and still gets access to the UK market

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This argument that when you tax the rich it puts people of trying to be rich is just bullshit, its absolute fucking nonsense of the highest order.. When the beetles were being taxed at 75% and writing songs about the taxman... Guess what, millions of people were still trying to be the beetles...I mean why didn't led Zeppelin just wrap it up and say fuck me.. Its pointless lads, there just going to make us pay 75% tax on our incredibly big earnings, fuck it, back to being a poorly paid wanker at the post office for us

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"yeah but the fact remains that No.10 has buggered off and left 1-9 to buy the next round. Don't you see that is the real moral of the story. It's not about maths, injustice or even the price of beer.

It's just No.10 got a bit miffed about being called a toff scrounger, having his face filled with a bunch of 5s so decided to get on his Bike and take his custom elsewhere and stick 2 fingers up at his mates.

So all you people banging on about all these other things completely miss the point. Ha Ha.

They only do this because we fucking let them do it, we let them become non domiciled but still have access to the UK, we let them move their UK generated wealth abroad without paying they're taxs, we let them still have influence at high political levels in the UK despite fucking off abroad!!!.

When you let people get away with it... Being human they tend to do it!.

What we could do about Facebook and Starbucks is exactly what China does, if you don't wanna play the game then fucking do one and take your business elsewhere and you know what!! Capitalism being capitalism, somebody else is willing to do it in China and play the fucking game of paying your fucking taxs like everybody else does... Except Philip fucking green who's a cunt and fucks off and still gets access to the UK market"

Quite.

These things often make two errors of assumption - the first is that the wealthy will leave if taxed, in reality this seems not to happen for the most part, it's just a scare tactic.

The second is, that if there is a profit to be made by playing within the rules, someone will fill that gap in the market pretty bloody quickly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yeah but the fact remains that No.10 has buggered off and left 1-9 to buy the next round. Don't you see that is the real moral of the story. It's not about maths, injustice or even the price of beer.

It's just No.10 got a bit miffed about being called a toff scrounger, having his face filled with a bunch of 5s so decided to get on his Bike and take his custom elsewhere and stick 2 fingers up at his mates.

So all you people banging on about all these other things completely miss the point. Ha Ha.

They only do this because we fucking let them do it, we let them become non domiciled but still have access to the UK, we let them move their UK generated wealth abroad without paying they're taxs, we let them still have influence at high political levels in the UK despite fucking off abroad!!!.

When you let people get away with it... Being human they tend to do it!.

What we could do about Facebook and Starbucks is exactly what China does, if you don't wanna play the game then fucking do one and take your business elsewhere and you know what!! Capitalism being capitalism, somebody else is willing to do it in China and play the fucking game of paying your fucking taxs like everybody else does... Except Philip fucking green who's a cunt and fucks off and still gets access to the UK market"

Yeah but Phillip Green is a headline cunt mate and I agree he is not a very nice man. But there is fuck all we can do about him, He has had a dust up in the pub yard and has thankfully buggered off now.

So No.1 to 5 are having their heads whipped up into a fury of injustice and bristling ingratitude. Hopefully Nos 5 to 9 will see some sense and decide to ask No.10 to come back nicely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it quite annoying that the very people that trump capitalism seem to dis it the minute that paying taxes and the wealthy are concerned!..

The very nature of capitalism means if there's money to be earned somebody will earn it and if there's a gap in the market somebody will fill it.. Where as the very nature of being human means people will avoid paying taxes if they can.. Case and point Jimmy Carr who avoided paying tax at 18% not 50 or 70 or even less than what I pay 25...

18 fucking percent tax was too much to pay for him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yeah but the fact remains that No.10 has buggered off and left 1-9 to buy the next round. Don't you see that is the real moral of the story. It's not about maths, injustice or even the price of beer.

It's just No.10 got a bit miffed about being called a toff scrounger, having his face filled with a bunch of 5s so decided to get on his Bike and take his custom elsewhere and stick 2 fingers up at his mates.

So all you people banging on about all these other things completely miss the point. Ha Ha.

They only do this because we fucking let them do it, we let them become non domiciled but still have access to the UK, we let them move their UK generated wealth abroad without paying they're taxs, we let them still have influence at high political levels in the UK despite fucking off abroad!!!.

When you let people get away with it... Being human they tend to do it!.

What we could do about Facebook and Starbucks is exactly what China does, if you don't wanna play the game then fucking do one and take your business elsewhere and you know what!! Capitalism being capitalism, somebody else is willing to do it in China and play the fucking game of paying your fucking taxs like everybody else does... Except Philip fucking green who's a cunt and fucks off and still gets access to the UK market

Quite.

These things often make two errors of assumption - the first is that the wealthy will leave if taxed, in reality this seems not to happen for the most part, it's just a scare tactic.

The second is, that if there is a profit to be made by playing within the rules, someone will fill that gap in the market pretty bloody quickly. "

But the bloke was beaten up for goodness sake. Why would he stay, they called him a posh git. Is he some sort of guy that likes fight club or something.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"yeah but the fact remains that No.10 has buggered off and left 1-9 to buy the next round. Don't you see that is the real moral of the story. It's not about maths, injustice or even the price of beer.

It's just No.10 got a bit miffed about being called a toff scrounger, having his face filled with a bunch of 5s so decided to get on his Bike and take his custom elsewhere and stick 2 fingers up at his mates.

So all you people banging on about all these other things completely miss the point. Ha Ha.

They only do this because we fucking let them do it, we let them become non domiciled but still have access to the UK, we let them move their UK generated wealth abroad without paying they're taxs, we let them still have influence at high political levels in the UK despite fucking off abroad!!!.

When you let people get away with it... Being human they tend to do it!.

What we could do about Facebook and Starbucks is exactly what China does, if you don't wanna play the game then fucking do one and take your business elsewhere and you know what!! Capitalism being capitalism, somebody else is willing to do it in China and play the fucking game of paying your fucking taxs like everybody else does... Except Philip fucking green who's a cunt and fucks off and still gets access to the UK market

Quite.

These things often make two errors of assumption - the first is that the wealthy will leave if taxed, in reality this seems not to happen for the most part, it's just a scare tactic.

The second is, that if there is a profit to be made by playing within the rules, someone will fill that gap in the market pretty bloody quickly.

But the bloke was beaten up for goodness sake. Why would he stay, they called him a posh git. Is he some sort of guy that likes fight club or something. "

Easy, profit. People will endure all sorts to make money. See:China.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

"

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up"
.

Working class people being working class tend to spend all there wages living, now remind me about the 20% vat the 10% NI, the 90% fuel duty, the 92% alcohol duty, the 7.5% duty on energy, insurance... There's more than one way to pay tax than direct and point being if your wealthier you tend to have spare money that you don't spend and that money doesn't pay those indirect taxes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up.

Working class people being working class tend to spend all there wages living, now remind me about the 20% vat the 10% NI, the 90% fuel duty, the 92% alcohol duty, the 7.5% duty on energy, insurance... There's more than one way to pay tax than direct and point being if your wealthier you tend to have spare money that you don't spend and that money doesn't pay those indirect taxes."

You really are missing the point and thrashing on about real taxes and stuff. Fundamentally the middle income Britain is being squeezed and this post has made me realize why it is happening and fundamentally why it can probably only get worse because no one seems to know of a way out of the spiral except for those that say tax till the pips squeak.

Fundamentally that doesn't work either because it's probably why a lot of pensioners disappear off to Spain for a few years and then come back when they start feeling a bit poorly.

Nope I don't know what the answer is either. Probably something in the middle might do it. Try and keep everybody happy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One more thing. Let's consider Philip Green's case. I agree he must be some hardnosed bastard to do what he did. He's probably a worst case No.10 LOL. Maybe someone in his drinking circle a few years ago upset him and cornered him in the pub car park. He decided it was time to bugger off to Monte Carlo and take all his money with him. He siphoned it off to his mrs first, as much as he legally thought he could. Sly bastard coz no one spotted it. Pension funds seem to be a great way to be a swindler if you are unscrupulous. Just like that Robert Maxwell SOB. At least he had the decency to top himself.

It meant his money was no longer available in the pension pot so suddenly everyone in the country got a bit poorer coz we've got to bail out the people in his drinking circle.

I am sure he very rarely spends any time or money in the UK. Why would he Nos 1 to 9 are baying for his blood.

It's an extreme case but does highlight perhaps how this all works. Thankyou OP for that story. Amazing what you learn off a bunch of swingers LOL.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up.

Working class people being working class tend to spend all there wages living, now remind me about the 20% vat the 10% NI, the 90% fuel duty, the 92% alcohol duty, the 7.5% duty on energy, insurance... There's more than one way to pay tax than direct and point being if your wealthier you tend to have spare money that you don't spend and that money doesn't pay those indirect taxes."

So working "class" people are the only ones who work ? Many self employed work twice the hours than the 40 hrs a week employee does and risk their own capital in their business, should they not earn more, plenty of workers do overtime to earn more so are better off,while I totally agree that many top ceo's earn ridiculous amounts they are fairly few in number, and while the better off may have spare cash after living costs they probably spend more doing that so they pay just as much tax on those costs if not more, then there is tax on their savings and then tax on death. As always its the middle band that gets hit the worse and they are in the majority

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To expand on my post that perhaps a middle way (Tory light) as someone seems to call it is the way forward, however that's been tried too and ultimately failed. As Abraham Lincoln once said.

"You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time". We seem to be heading for the latter moment in history at the moment.

Nope there is no answer that suits everybody. That's why we are all arguing like fuck in this country. Don't like it. Bad times

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up.

Working class people being working class tend to spend all there wages living, now remind me about the 20% vat the 10% NI, the 90% fuel duty, the 92% alcohol duty, the 7.5% duty on energy, insurance... There's more than one way to pay tax than direct and point being if your wealthier you tend to have spare money that you don't spend and that money doesn't pay those indirect taxes.

You really are missing the point and thrashing on about real taxes and stuff. Fundamentally the middle income Britain is being squeezed and this post has made me realize why it is happening and fundamentally why it can probably only get worse because no one seems to know of a way out of the spiral except for those that say tax till the pips squeak.

Fundamentally that doesn't work either because it's probably why a lot of pensioners disappear off to Spain for a few years and then come back when they start feeling a bit poorly.

Nope I don't know what the answer is either. Probably something in the middle might do it. Try and keep everybody happy."
.

No your missing the point I keep making, I'm bothered about anybody going abroad, there welcome to leave,its a free world, contrary to you I believe in capitalism!

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By *VBethTV/TS
over a year ago

Chester

Let's just say that some people are bitten badly by the envy bug. There are those who rabidly believe that everyone should be earning around the same money no matter what they do. Others believe the government can stick a bleed valve in every rich persons bank account and just drain it dry without any complaints. These people are morons.

Our tax levels aren't too bad and should encourage people to work hard. Evasion and avoidance are the issue. We all know big companies avoid tax, it's known how they do it. It's known to be a lie. I would love someone to tell companies to pay up or fuck off, no excuses. If they do, find one of our entrepreneurs (if we haven't beaten them all up for daring to be successful) and help them replace the business with a tax paying one. Once a few large ones have been sorted out it'll work fine. Losing money in one country? No you can't offset that with our money, if you consistently lose money in a country, close down operations there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up.

Working class people being working class tend to spend all there wages living, now remind me about the 20% vat the 10% NI, the 90% fuel duty, the 92% alcohol duty, the 7.5% duty on energy, insurance... There's more than one way to pay tax than direct and point being if your wealthier you tend to have spare money that you don't spend and that money doesn't pay those indirect taxes.

You really are missing the point and thrashing on about real taxes and stuff. Fundamentally the middle income Britain is being squeezed and this post has made me realize why it is happening and fundamentally why it can probably only get worse because no one seems to know of a way out of the spiral except for those that say tax till the pips squeak.

Fundamentally that doesn't work either because it's probably why a lot of pensioners disappear off to Spain for a few years and then come back when they start feeling a bit poorly.

Nope I don't know what the answer is either. Probably something in the middle might do it. Try and keep everybody happy..

No your missing the point I keep making, I'm bothered about anybody going abroad, there welcome to leave,its a free world, contrary to you I believe in capitalism!"

That's cool. We all just have different ways of achieving things.

I just get nasty feeling that The younger wolves are circling round the carcass of what is left of the wealth of the middle classes. It's dressed in sheeps clothing and ready to sink it's teeth into us at any moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

Remind what the tax free allowance and tax rates are now compared to the 70/80's and even labour had to admit that the 50% tax rate actually dropped the total tax raised and when reduced again it went up.

Working class people being working class tend to spend all there wages living, now remind me about the 20% vat the 10% NI, the 90% fuel duty, the 92% alcohol duty, the 7.5% duty on energy, insurance... There's more than one way to pay tax than direct and point being if your wealthier you tend to have spare money that you don't spend and that money doesn't pay those indirect taxes.

You really are missing the point and thrashing on about real taxes and stuff. Fundamentally the middle income Britain is being squeezed and this post has made me realize why it is happening and fundamentally why it can probably only get worse because no one seems to know of a way out of the spiral except for those that say tax till the pips squeak.

Fundamentally that doesn't work either because it's probably why a lot of pensioners disappear off to Spain for a few years and then come back when they start feeling a bit poorly.

Nope I don't know what the answer is either. Probably something in the middle might do it. Try and keep everybody happy..

No your missing the point I keep making, I'm bothered about anybody going abroad, there welcome to leave,its a free world, contrary to you I believe in capitalism!

That's cool. We all just have different ways of achieving things.

I just get nasty feeling that The younger wolves are circling round the carcass of what is left of the wealth of the middle classes. It's dressed in sheeps clothing and ready to sink it's teeth into us at any moment.

"
.

Adam Smith chapter 1 .. We've known this for a couple of hundred years,its the reason Smith said that the wealthy must pay for the state, to protect their wealth and possessions... Its the Faustian bargain, you pay you get to keep it, you don't, somebody will take it from you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Doesn't make it right though coz Adam smith said it does it ? Faustian Bargains are nearly always a bit grim and painful at the end of it.

I hate to say it, but this is why No.10 is leaving the drinking club while he still can. To be honest we are locked in the vicious circle of arguments every government since the year dot has got into. I going to stop now coz we'll keep going round and round in circles here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Doesn't make it right though coz Adam smith said it does it ? Faustian Bargains are nearly always a bit grim and painful at the end of it.

I hate to say it, but this is why No.10 is leaving the drinking club while he still can. To be honest we are locked in the vicious circle of arguments every government since the year dot has got into. I going to stop now coz we'll keep going round and round in circles here."
.

Nobody said it was right, its how the system works though and that's important to grasp if you don't want to continually go round making mistakes!.

If your looking to get out, try south Africa, dirt cheap housing, very little taxation and Diddley state handouts or healthcare.. You can live it up while you can!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Socialist utopia is no different than this make believe land that right wingers believe in?.

You know why the wealthy used to live in castles don't you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf are you talking about... The fact remains that during the last 40 years taxs have gone down for everybody except the working classes!.

"

Try telling that to me in Scotland.

I pay the 40 % on a modest income in Scotland due to the snp.

In England the rate kicks in about two and a half grand higher and will be seven and a half grand higher in the next few years.

In Scotland teachers policemen etc have the pleasure of paying more for some fucking idiotic nationalist policy

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