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"for the police to look for one and have them under surveillance, would take 8 police officers" Not really correct... It take 8 fully trained operatives to form a surveillance double envelopment surveillance (box) around a walking surveillance target (plus backup vehicles in case they use motorised transport). To keep a target under 24 hour surveillance cover requires at least 2 teams on duty at all times to ensure that a target will be unable to first spot the surveillance operatives and a total of 8 teams in a 24 hour period to ensure that fatigue does not result in loss of a target, and that is a lot of bodies!... Once upon a time (70's and 80's) when we had over 1,000,000 service personnel in the military we had the bodies with the relevant (NV) clearances who would normally be square bashing or playing war to send on surveillance courses and use to follow people around, but those days are long gone. | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it." The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. " Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it. | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it." Not equivalent. Stop dredging that one up. | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it. Not equivalent. Stop dredging that one up. " You're wrong. Can ISIS thrive without new recruits? No. Can ISIS survive without funding? No. Work to stop radicalisation and you damage ISIS. Work to stop the people funding them and you damage ISIS. | |||
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"the one glaring thing you miss is numbers, the whole population of ireland is neglible compared to the millions of muslims, if the same tiny % of the occupants of ireland that took up violence was mirrored by the same % of muslims there would be many many thousands. The IRA wanted peace for several reasons IMVHO, the old guard were weary of it all, they knew they werent getting anywhere and the economic damage was hurting their own. I agree that stopping radicalisation is key but the net wasnt about like now during the troubles" With 2 billion muslims in the world and less than 600,000 nationalists/catholics and 800,000 loyalists/protestants the percentage of Northern Irish actively involved in terrorism during the troubles was a lot higher than it is for Muslims today. Its difficult to stop radicalisation but its something we just have to significantly reduce to do crippling damage to ISIS. Not everyone involved in Northern Ireland wanted to stop fughting, but enough did that it couldnt carry on. And it isnt about blaming anyone for creating terrorists, its something that will happen in small amounts anyway. Timothy McVeigh for example was someone who went off the deepend. But if we can kill the propaganda and at home if we can take mental health more seriously that would do lasting, permanent damage to ISIS instead of talking about how we'll handle it when someone commits an attack and whether they should be arrested, deported or executed. | |||
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"Northern Ireland as nothing to do with it its totaly diffrent these r loonie from all over the Middle East and North Africa with enormous populations not a few million all AV diffrent ideas on there own religion aswell plus there's lots of diffrent terror groups Muslims been killing eachother since dawn of time aswell " Youve made some excellent points. The Muslims have different ideas about their own religion. This is most definitely not the case with Carholics and Protestants. There are also different groups within Islamic terrorism. The IRA, INLA, UDF, UDA,UFF, LVF, Red Hand Defenders were all one group even though they werent. And the fighting between Islamic groups have been going on for generations whereas the fighting with British occupation had been going on for mere 800 years. U AV 2 remember dat u dont know wot u're talkin bout the fighting in NI was going on 4 ages and ages N at the same time the fighting in middle east wuz also happening and in europe there was fighting all the time betwen many many countries and groups you may AV herd of world war 1 and 2 dey R just da latest in thousands of years of warfare dating back 2 b4 roman times which were thousands of years ago were only 70 yrs removed from murdering torturing and slaughtering each other in europe less if you include the balkan wars and northern ireland and eta in spain. | |||
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"Northern Ireland as nothing to do with it its totaly diffrent these r loonie from all over the Middle East and North Africa with enormous populations not a few million all AV diffrent ideas on there own religion aswell plus there's lots of diffrent terror groups Muslims been killing eachother since dawn of time aswell Youve made some excellent points. The Muslims have different ideas about their own religion. This is most definitely not the case with Carholics and Protestants. There are also different groups within Islamic terrorism. The IRA, INLA, UDF, UDA,UFF, LVF, Red Hand Defenders were all one group even though they werent. And the fighting between Islamic groups have been going on for generations whereas the fighting with British occupation had been going on for mere 800 years. U AV 2 remember dat u dont know wot u're talkin bout the fighting in NI was going on 4 ages and ages N at the same time the fighting in middle east wuz also happening and in europe there was fighting all the time betwen many many countries and groups you may AV herd of world war 1 and 2 dey R just da latest in thousands of years of warfare dating back 2 b4 roman times which were thousands of years ago were only 70 yrs removed from murdering torturing and slaughtering each other in europe less if you include the balkan wars and northern ireland and eta in spain." YOU don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea what these bombings are about do you? | |||
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"for the police to look for one and have them under surveillance, would take 8 police officers Not really correct... It take 8 fully trained operatives to form a surveillance double envelopment surveillance (box) around a walking surveillance target (plus backup vehicles in case they use motorised transport). To keep a target under 24 hour surveillance cover requires at least 2 teams on duty at all times to ensure that a target will be unable to first spot the surveillance operatives and a total of 8 teams in a 24 hour period to ensure that fatigue does not result in loss of a target, and that is a lot of bodies!... Once upon a time (70's and 80's) when we had over 1,000,000 service personnel in the military we had the bodies with the relevant (NV) clearances who would normally be square bashing or playing war to send on surveillance courses and use to follow people around, but those days are long gone." The cuts are crippling. We don't help ourselves though. Questionable foreign policy and letting combatants back into the country. Our own forces personnel are truamatised enough when coming home, never mind about people with very bad intentions. | |||
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"Of course terrorism can be stopped. We've seen it in Northern Ireland. It once looked impossible and yet now its relatively peaceful, still contentious, but peaceful. The roots of terrorism are what we need to focus on. But theres a large section of the population that doesnt want to hear that much less do anything about it. Ch0ke off their funding even if it means paying an economic price at home. Deal with the issues that lead to people becoming radicalised in the first place and continue targetting their leaders. But too many on the right think thats the wrong approach and its better to continue doing deals with the people who fund terrorism and to ignore the causes of radicalism and just deal with it when its too late." You may want to have a look why it stopped in NI. It was more to do with the financies drying up and dwindling US support. Yes, US based support. The talks were just the icing on the cake. | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it. Not equivalent. Stop dredging that one up. You're wrong. Can ISIS thrive without new recruits? No. Can ISIS survive without funding? No. Work to stop radicalisation and you damage ISIS. Work to stop the people funding them and you damage ISIS." "People funding them" interesting. ISIS are self sufficient as they generate their revenue through the sale of oil and other resources. Who buys that oil is the question you need to ask. A lot, if not all ISIS hardware is US made. How did they get hold of this kit? Who supported the "Rebels" when all this kicked off? Who put Saddam,Assad and Gaddaffi (leaders of a minority tribes) in charge of their countries? Why do we sell billions of pounds worth of arms to Saudi Arabia? When they are starving the people of Yemen into submission.The 9/11 attackers were from SA. I think people need to ask questions and not point fingers. There are many sects of Muslims some have more extreme views than others. A christian society has the same Catholics,Opus day,Coptics, Greek Orthadox etc The Jewish community has many sub groups and ethnic splits. So the Muslim terrorist thing doesn't wash with me. Money and resources is what it is all about nothing more nothing less. | |||
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"Of course terrorism can be stopped. We've seen it in Northern Ireland. It once looked impossible and yet now its relatively peaceful, still contentious, but peaceful. The roots of terrorism are what we need to focus on. But theres a large section of the population that doesnt want to hear that much less do anything about it. Ch0ke off their funding even if it means paying an economic price at home. Deal with the issues that lead to people becoming radicalised in the first place and continue targetting their leaders. But too many on the right think thats the wrong approach and its better to continue doing deals with the people who fund terrorism and to ignore the causes of radicalism and just deal with it when its too late. You may want to have a look why it stopped in NI. It was more to do with the financies drying up and dwindling US support. Yes, US based support. The talks were just the icing on the cake." Youre looking at the end of it in isolation and thats the wrong approach. The IRA started and grew in response to: 1. The lack of civil rights for nationalists 2. Violence including murder by British police and army 3. Vioence including murder from the loyalist side By the mid 90s there were massive gains in civil rights, the atrocities committed by British forces were not near the scale of the 70s or 80s. Without the problems which caused the conflict in the first place the funding dried up, recruitment went down and the appetite in the community for an armed response faded. But if the Catholics were still being discriminated against, assaulted and murdered by police the struggle would have continued. To think that they would have just stopped and accepted that treatment is ridiculous. | |||
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" Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it." Oh my god! Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Firstly regardless of what tory politicians claim we did not defeat the provos, we realised we could not retain the status quo and win in NI so negotiated a peace where the provos got most of what they wanted. We did not change their mentality at all. Now you compare the attacks of the troubles with jihadist attacks, lets just examine that. I'll forget the fact that the troubles were not acts of international terrorism but an insurgency and counter insurgency, and therefore totally different. However I will accept that if you ignore the fact that the provos were for the most part targeting property and usually gave warnings prior to detonating bombs where jihadists always target human life then they are similar. They both use improvised bombs and the tactics of asymmetric warfare. However, at the height of the troubles in NI there were approximately 200 known 'active service' members of the provos and a similar number of loyalists engaged in the planning, fermenting disaffection and carrying out acts of violence in NI. It required 27,000 regular troops plus the formation of the UDR with a strength of 6000 men (the largest TA unit in the UK) of which about 1 in 4 was full time, bringing the total to nearly 30,000 troops to control the machinations of some 400 to 500 known individuals. How many do you think it would take to screen and control every individual or even every Muslim individual who has visited North or sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East? | |||
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" Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it. Oh my god! Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Firstly regardless of what tory politicians claim we did not defeat the provos, we realised we could not retain the status quo and win in NI so negotiated a peace where the provos got most of what they wanted. We did not change their mentality at all. Now you compare the attacks of the troubles with jihadist attacks, lets just examine that. I'll forget the fact that the troubles were not acts of international terrorism but an insurgency and counter insurgency, and therefore totally different. However I will accept that if you ignore the fact that the provos were for the most part targeting property and usually gave warnings prior to detonating bombs where jihadists always target human life then they are similar. They both use improvised bombs and the tactics of asymmetric warfare. However, at the height of the troubles in NI there were approximately 200 known 'active service' members of the provos and a similar number of loyalists engaged in the planning, fermenting disaffection and carrying out acts of violence in NI. It required 27,000 regular troops plus the formation of the UDR with a strength of 6000 men (the largest TA unit in the UK) of which about 1 in 4 was full time, bringing the total to nearly 30,000 troops to control the machinations of some 400 to 500 known individuals. How many do you think it would take to screen and control every individual or even every Muslim individual who has visited North or sub Saharan Africa and the Middle East? " Theres nothing Id disagree with there. If the British government hadnt resolved a lot of the issues that started the violence it would have continued. Policing thousands upon thousands isnt the best option. Stopping radicalisation happening in the first place should be the goal. | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them." The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out. | |||
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"It will be a hard job for them to stop it." trident .... piece of piss ... mrs maygabe said so | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them. The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out." There are parts of the Old Testament which are very brutal. But the core of Christian teaching is based around the Ten Commandments and the New Testament, basically understanding, forgiveness and acceptance of others. Hate the sin but love the sinner etc. Plus there is a passage in the old testament which basically states that as we are all created in God's image to carry out violence against another is to attack the image of God and thus is a grave offence. | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them. The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out." This. Make the UK a religion free zone. Zero tolerance for the hate filled Bible and Koran. | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them. The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out. There are parts of the Old Testament which are very brutal. But the core of Christian teaching is based around the Ten Commandments and the New Testament, basically understanding, forgiveness and acceptance of others. Hate the sin but love the sinner etc. Plus there is a passage in the old testament which basically states that as we are all created in God's image to carry out violence against another is to attack the image of God and thus is a grave offence." Who cares what any of them SAY? Judge them on what hey DO. Christians have murdered, tortured and brutalised millions in the name of god. Fuck them. Muslims have brutalised, tortured and murdered millions in te name of Allah. Fuck them. | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them. The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out. There are parts of the Old Testament which are very brutal. But the core of Christian teaching is based around the Ten Commandments and the New Testament, basically understanding, forgiveness and acceptance of others. Hate the sin but love the sinner etc. Plus there is a passage in the old testament which basically states that as we are all created in God's image to carry out violence against another is to attack the image of God and thus is a grave offence. Who cares what any of them SAY? Judge them on what hey DO. Christians have murdered, tortured and brutalised millions in the name of god. Fuck them. Muslims have brutalised, tortured and murdered millions in te name of Allah. Fuck them. " And people with no religious affiliation whatsoever have brutalised and murdered millions in the name of money, territory and hate. Fuck all people???? | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them. The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out. There are parts of the Old Testament which are very brutal. But the core of Christian teaching is based around the Ten Commandments and the New Testament, basically understanding, forgiveness and acceptance of others. Hate the sin but love the sinner etc. Plus there is a passage in the old testament which basically states that as we are all created in God's image to carry out violence against another is to attack the image of God and thus is a grave offence. Who cares what any of them SAY? Judge them on what hey DO. Christians have murdered, tortured and brutalised millions in the name of god. Fuck them. Muslims have brutalised, tortured and murdered millions in te name of Allah. Fuck them. And people with no religious affiliation whatsoever have brutalised and murdered millions in the name of money, territory and hate. Fuck all people????" Fuck the ideology that made them do that. It just so happens that the abrahamic religions are particulalry bloodthirsty, and add to that the notion of a god is utterly illogical. The sooner we get rid of these murderous ideologies the better. | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them. The Bible doesn't cover itself in glory either. Advocation of violence and homophobic verses are everywhere. Worth checking out. There are parts of the Old Testament which are very brutal. But the core of Christian teaching is based around the Ten Commandments and the New Testament, basically understanding, forgiveness and acceptance of others. Hate the sin but love the sinner etc. Plus there is a passage in the old testament which basically states that as we are all created in God's image to carry out violence against another is to attack the image of God and thus is a grave offence. Who cares what any of them SAY? Judge them on what hey DO. Christians have murdered, tortured and brutalised millions in the name of god. Fuck them. Muslims have brutalised, tortured and murdered millions in te name of Allah. Fuck them. And people with no religious affiliation whatsoever have brutalised and murdered millions in the name of money, territory and hate. Fuck all people???? Fuck the ideology that made them do that. It just so happens that the abrahamic religions are particulalry bloodthirsty, and add to that the notion of a god is utterly illogical. The sooner we get rid of these murderous ideologies the better. " The belief in an omnipotent being is only a part of religious faith. The core teachings have evolved beyond old testament bloodshed and revolve around self improvement thru treating others well, not being greedy and helping those less fortunate. I don't see how that is a bad thing? | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem." interesting that in Northern Ireland the younger generation want more integration and they are being opposed by the establishments of the church and politicians.. | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem." Me and the wife were talking about this today. Integration must be the way forward. | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem." mmm... don't think so Bob .... education starts at home ! 
Is that good ? Bad ? Hard to know but a fact ! | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem. Me and the wife were talking about this today. Integration must be the way forward. " Good thought... but a bit unrealistic ! Integration into what ? That is the first question ! Multiculturalism is a failed concept ! so.... Second question : Do some want to be integrated ?  | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? For example, for the police to look for one and have them under surveillance, would take 8 police officers, so lots of resources and many would slip through the system. I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it." Depends. All terrorism possibly and eventually sure. However if you mean a particular form of terrorism then depending on which you mean I don't see why not. | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem. Me and the wife were talking about this today. Integration must be the way forward. Good thought... but a bit unrealistic ! Integration into what ? That is the first question ! Multiculturalism is a failed concept ! so.... Second question : Do some want to be integrated ? "If you think that multiculturalism is dead, you ought to do one of those Ancestry.com DNA tests. Multiculturism is the very essence of mankind and it will continue to be so. Christianity has evolved in this country from being the very reason that humans get out of bed every day to becoming a minority hobby. Other religions will follow suit. I know a third generation Indian Muslim who herself is now a Grandmother and whilst she hangs on to tethers of her sub culture neither of her children do and the grandchildren are being brought up via SkyTV, iPads and all the other trappings of conventional U.K. life. In a few hundred years, religions of all types will have been replaced by other beliefs and/or they will be the reserve of a tiny minority of hardened "weirdo's" Multiculturism happens - it is just a matter of being patient and allowing people to die off and new people to be born. | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? For example, for the police to look for one and have them under surveillance, would take 8 police officers, so lots of resources and many would slip through the system. I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it." Terrorism arises out of conflict and conflict develops from differences of opinion where opinions become hardened through intransigence. Taking things down to the simplest level and the answer is yes, terrorism can be defeated by addressing the root causes of it and managing the flow of information that is causing the division. There is a natural reaction for us all to want to react to these latest atrocities. I am sure that like mine, all your Facebook feeds have been full of anger and bloodletting this weekend. Close mosques, internment, ban Islam, deport Muslims etc etc. This of course only goes to fuel the conflict, not appease it. Defeating terrorism is all about diminishing the reasons for conflict and disarming the narrative. A good start for us in the West would be to understand that these people are Daesh terrorists and not Muslims. Removing their public association with Islam is a removal of their justification to exist in the world. This will be a proganda battle that should be fought on line to the point that the radical becomes a laughing stock and the butt of jokes. It will take the engagement of moderates in all sides to do this and this means that we all have to accept that the terrorists are not Muslims - they are terrorists, pure and simple. | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem. Me and the wife were talking about this today. Integration must be the way forward. Good thought... but a bit unrealistic ! Integration into what ? That is the first question ! Multiculturalism is a failed concept ! so.... Second question : Do some want to be integrated ?
If you think that multiculturalism is dead, you ought to do one of those Ancestry.com DNA tests.
Multiculturism is the very essence of mankind and it will continue to be so.
Christianity has evolved in this country from being the very reason that humans get out of bed every day to becoming a minority hobby. Other religions will follow suit. I know a third generation Indian Muslim who herself is now a Grandmother and whilst she hangs on to tethers of her sub culture neither of her children do and the grandchildren are being brought up via SkyTV, iPads and all the other trappings of conventional U.K. life.
In a few hundred years, religions of all types will have been replaced by other beliefs and/or they will be the reserve of a tiny minority of hardened "weirdo's"
Multiculturism happens - it is just a matter of being patient and allowing people to die off and new people to be born."I did a DNA test and while I'm mostly British/Irish/European, amazingly I am 1% Mongolian. There appears to have been a Mongolian in my bloodline about 7 generations ago. Is now like to get my parents to both do a test and at least work out which side it is on and try and trace it back. -Matt | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it." Great post The proceeding one sounds sensible apart from the small detail that not all Muslims are violent | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it. Great post The proceeding one sounds sensible apart from the small detail that not all Muslims are violent " No ! Not all muslims are violent , but Islam as a religion IS !  | |||
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"Make all schools secular.Ban all muslim and Christian and jewish schools.Because thats were indoctrination happens and more importantly its segregation. If the muslim Catholic and jewish kids and non believers go to the same school they might become friends and more cross cultural links will exist as they grow up Hopefully the next generation might be better placed to solve this problem. Me and the wife were talking about this today. Integration must be the way forward. Good thought... but a bit unrealistic ! Integration into what ? That is the first question ! Multiculturalism is a failed concept ! so.... Second question : Do some want to be integrated ?
If you think that multiculturalism is dead, you ought to do one of those Ancestry.com DNA tests.
Multiculturism is the very essence of mankind and it will continue to be so.
Christianity has evolved in this country from being the very reason that humans get out of bed every day to becoming a minority hobby. Other religions will follow suit. I know a third generation Indian Muslim who herself is now a Grandmother and whilst she hangs on to tethers of her sub culture neither of her children do and the grandchildren are being brought up via SkyTV, iPads and all the other trappings of conventional U.K. life.
In a few hundred years, religions of all types will have been replaced by other beliefs and/or they will be the reserve of a tiny minority of hardened "weirdo's"
Multiculturism happens - it is just a matter of being patient and allowing people to die off and new people to be born."Problem is .... in the mean time this "patience" you refer to is killing , and seriously conditioning peoples lives ! I meant multiculturalism in apolitical and social sense! That doesn't work ! Some cultures dont mix , as well as some don't want to mix ! In terms of integration or "multiculturalism" All countries that had empires deal with it in one way or another better or worse ! Britain is not a good example in that way ! The best example of balanced successful "multiculturalism" or integration is Portugal ! No other ex imperial countries come close! Being Portuguese is not an ethnic identity , but rather a cultural one ! When Portuguese started roaming the oceans in the 14th century , they did something that was unique ! They mixed with local natives ! This was something that other sea faring European countries did not do , and as a British subject, if you did , you would be social outcast ! So its normal that Portugese come in all colours ! Its normal to hear one say " I am Portuguese ... then comes ... from.. Angola , Mozambique, Goa, Timor , Macau , Madeira, Azores! So you can be black , Chinese, Indian , coloured , or any other mixed race.... but you are Portuguese ! Summing it up .... Portugal has no integration problems ! Portuguese will be happy to integrate you as long as you want to ! But on the flip side of the coin , if you try and impose certain cultural or religious oddities .... then there is 0 tolerance for that if it clashes with the way of life ! FYI there is no such thing as discrimination laws in this country....because they are not needed ! Its unthinkable even to hear of BS like Sharia or any other islamic BS ! The problem with Britain is that its have given up on its own culture trying desperately to make amends for past colonial "sins" , thus trying to mix and integrate all ! Problem is certain elements dont mix , and some cultures and religions clash with the base European values and culture ! 
Once people accept it doesn't work ...then you can find solutions!
Also time to look around and see what others have done !  | |||
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"A great thread on Twitter yesterday from David Allen Green, a legal and political commentator for the FT. Copied verbatim below. He's got a very good point. Also someone else pointed out that terrorist don't seem to be too bothered with the law anyway. 1. There has been a suggestion that what is needed are new laws against terrorism. 2. Since 2000, there have been many laws about terrorism. 3. Terrorism Act 2000 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 Terrorism Act 2006 4. Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011 Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 5. Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 Investigatory Powers Act 2016 Among others. 6. There have also been about 100 statutory instruments since 2000 with "Terrorism" in title alone 7. Contained in this legislation are some of the widest, most general provisions in the history of criminal and also surveillance law. 8. Without exaggeration: it is difficult to imagine what more laws about terrorism there could be. 9. Since 2000, the UK has averaged a new terrorism statue every two years. 10. So many terrorism statutes since 2000 government has run out of names for them: Terrorism Act, Anti-Terrorism Act, Counter-Terrorism Act 11. It is easy for a politician do demand "tough" new laws, "crack-downs", "enough is enough", "something must be done"... 12. But government, and parliament, is running out of ways of legislating against terrorism. Every possible way seems to have been done. 13. Whatever the best response to terrorism, making yet more laws will not be the solution. /ends. -Matt" 
Now ... for practical steps ;
1- Monitor mosques
2- Limit and monitor islamic schools.
3- No more new islamic schools .
4- Imprison and deport anyone that demonstrates or defends any form or radical islamic speech , or defends sharia in Britain! This includes any British born or converted muslims !
If they are not happy in Britain , then they should move to a country that has as a cultural and legal system that fits their views or religion ! Simple !
5- Any mosques that fail to report any form of radicalisation should be closed .
6- Government should target web sites that promote radical islam ! Shut them them down , and hunt the people behind them ! Not come up with BS notions of regulating the web as a whole , as that affects the freedoms of the rest of us !
7- Rethink the quaint notion of "unarmed" police !
8- Limit and electronically "tag" (passports , drivers licences or any other id documents), and target anyone that frequents certain mosques or web sites , that promote islam ! This might seem discriminatory to all muslims , but its time that muslims as a whole reject the bad apples in their midsts !
To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target !
Its time we did it to them !
No new laws needed ! Just the balls and political will to apply the existing ones to their full extent ! | |||
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"A great thread on Twitter yesterday from David Allen Green, a legal and political commentator for the FT. Copied verbatim below. He's got a very good point. Also someone else pointed out that terrorist don't seem to be too bothered with the law anyway. 1. There has been a suggestion that what is needed are new laws against terrorism. 2. Since 2000, there have been many laws about terrorism. 3. Terrorism Act 2000 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 Terrorism Act 2006 4. Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011 Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 5. Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 Investigatory Powers Act 2016 Among others. 6. There have also been about 100 statutory instruments since 2000 with "Terrorism" in title alone 7. Contained in this legislation are some of the widest, most general provisions in the history of criminal and also surveillance law. 8. Without exaggeration: it is difficult to imagine what more laws about terrorism there could be. 9. Since 2000, the UK has averaged a new terrorism statue every two years. 10. So many terrorism statutes since 2000 government has run out of names for them: Terrorism Act, Anti-Terrorism Act, Counter-Terrorism Act 11. It is easy for a politician do demand "tough" new laws, "crack-downs", "enough is enough", "something must be done"... 12. But government, and parliament, is running out of ways of legislating against terrorism. Every possible way seems to have been done. 13. Whatever the best response to terrorism, making yet more laws will not be the solution. /ends. -Matt
Now ... for practical steps ;
1- Monitor mosques
2- Limit and monitor islamic schools.
3- No more new islamic schools .
4- Imprison and deport anyone that demonstrates or defends any form or radical islamic speech , or defends sharia in Britain! This includes any British born or converted muslims !
If they are not happy in Britain , then they should move to a country that has as a cultural and legal system that fits their views or religion ! Simple !
5- Any mosques that fail to report any form of radicalisation should be closed .
6- Government should target web sites that promote radical islam ! Shut them them down , and hunt the people behind them ! Not come up with BS notions of regulating the web as a whole , as that affects the freedoms of the rest of us !
7- Rethink the quaint notion of "unarmed" police !
8- Limit and electronically "tag" (passports , drivers licences or any other id documents), and target anyone that frequents certain mosques or web sites , that promote islam ! This might seem discriminatory to all muslims , but its time that muslims as a whole reject the bad apples in their midsts !
To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target !
Its time we did it to them !
No new laws needed ! Just the balls and political will to apply the existing ones to their full extent ! "Right. So your plan is to imprison people whether they are committed a crime or not, and deport people to.... uhhh... Birmingham? And muslims as a whole *do* reject the bad apples in their midsts. In both this and the Manchester bombing the perpetrator has been reported by their community. Multiple times. "Its time we did it to them" I don't think you actually know who "them" is, Tony. You seem to want to stigmatise an entire religion. Guess what, that is what ISIS are trying to do. Congratulations, you are doing their work for them! -Matt | |||
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"Now ... for practical steps ; 1- Monitor mosques 2- Limit and monitor islamic schools. 3- No more new islamic schools . 4- Imprison and deport anyone that demonstrates or defends any form or radical islamic speech , or defends sharia in Britain! This includes any British born or converted muslims ! If they are not happy in Britain , then they should move to a country that has as a cultural and legal system that fits their views or religion ! Simple !
5- Any mosques that fail to report any form of radicalisation should be closed .
6- Government should target web sites that promote radical islam ! Shut them them down , and hunt the people behind them ! Not come up with BS notions of regulating the web as a whole , as that affects the freedoms of the rest of us !
7- Rethink the quaint notion of "unarmed" police !
8- Limit and electronically "tag" (passports , drivers licences or any other id documents), and target anyone that frequents certain mosques or web sites , that promote islam ! This might seem discriminatory to all muslims , but its time that muslims as a whole reject the bad apples in their midsts !
To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target !
Its time we did it to them !
No new laws needed ! Just the balls and political will to apply the existing ones to their full extent ! "Sorry to say this Tony, but you like most people are talking rubbish. Here is the simple and very unpalatable truth. There really is no such thing as terrorism be it domestic or international. There is asymmetric war. What is called domestic terrorism is asymmetric civil war or insurrection (as we experienced in NI). International terrorism is just plain simple asymmetric war. There is nothing new in people rejecting their own society and developing loyalties for the enemy and choosing to fight for the enemy rather than for their own side, they are usually called traitors. The way to deal with traitors is to kill them. The way to end a war is to destroy the enemies ability and will to fight or surrender. Until our leaders stop denying we are at war and stop arming and training our enemy because our leaders and industrialists like their money we have no chance of stopping the attacks our enemy launches against us. Of course for that to happen we all need to face the fact we are at war with a much weaker enemy who relies on the fact that we lack the will to fight because ironically we are too strong militarily. | |||
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"A great thread on Twitter yesterday from David Allen Green, a legal and political commentator for the FT. Copied verbatim below. He's got a very good point. Also someone else pointed out that terrorist don't seem to be too bothered with the law anyway. 1. There has been a suggestion that what is needed are new laws against terrorism. 2. Since 2000, there have been many laws about terrorism. 3. Terrorism Act 2000 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 Terrorism Act 2006 4. Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011 Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 5. Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 Investigatory Powers Act 2016 Among others. 6. There have also been about 100 statutory instruments since 2000 with "Terrorism" in title alone 7. Contained in this legislation are some of the widest, most general provisions in the history of criminal and also surveillance law. 8. Without exaggeration: it is difficult to imagine what more laws about terrorism there could be. 9. Since 2000, the UK has averaged a new terrorism statue every two years. 10. So many terrorism statutes since 2000 government has run out of names for them: Terrorism Act, Anti-Terrorism Act, Counter-Terrorism Act 11. It is easy for a politician do demand "tough" new laws, "crack-downs", "enough is enough", "something must be done"... 12. But government, and parliament, is running out of ways of legislating against terrorism. Every possible way seems to have been done. 13. Whatever the best response to terrorism, making yet more laws will not be the solution. /ends. -Matt
Now ... for practical steps ;
1- Monitor mosques
2- Limit and monitor islamic schools.
3- No more new islamic schools .
4- Imprison and deport anyone that demonstrates or defends any form or radical islamic speech , or defends sharia in Britain! This includes any British born or converted muslims !
If they are not happy in Britain , then they should move to a country that has as a cultural and legal system that fits their views or religion ! Simple !
5- Any mosques that fail to report any form of radicalisation should be closed .
6- Government should target web sites that promote radical islam ! Shut them them down , and hunt the people behind them ! Not come up with BS notions of regulating the web as a whole , as that affects the freedoms of the rest of us !
7- Rethink the quaint notion of "unarmed" police !
8- Limit and electronically "tag" (passports , drivers licences or any other id documents), and target anyone that frequents certain mosques or web sites , that promote islam ! This might seem discriminatory to all muslims , but its time that muslims as a whole reject the bad apples in their midsts !
To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target !
Its time we did it to them !
No new laws needed ! Just the balls and political will to apply the existing ones to their full extent !
Right. So your plan is to imprison people whether they are committed a crime or not, and deport people to.... uhhh... Birmingham?
And muslims as a whole *do* reject the bad apples in their midsts. In both this and the Manchester bombing the perpetrator has been reported by their community. Multiple times.
"Its time we did it to them" I don't think you actually know who "them" is, Tony. You seem to want to stigmatise an entire religion. Guess what, that is what ISIS are trying to do. Congratulations, you are doing their work for them!
-Matt"No you are ! And no they don't do their share ! Where to deport them ? Any islamic country that would take them ! Or the country they originate from ! "Right. So your plan is to imprison people whether they are committed a crime or not" Did I say that ? Dont put words in my mouth !
"the Manchester bombing the perpetrator has been reported by their community. Multiple times. "
So the police failed ? That means again I am right ! they did NOT apply the laws already in place .... so its not a question of more police ... but better methods !
"Its time we did it to them" I don't think you actually know who "them" is, Tony."
NO its you that dont know or refuse to accept you they are or what the root cause is !
Due to my life experience and past , I am acutely aware of how to detect and face threats!
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"Now ... for practical steps ; 1- Monitor mosques 2- Limit and monitor islamic schools. 3- No more new islamic schools . 4- Imprison and deport anyone that demonstrates or defends any form or radical islamic speech , or defends sharia in Britain! This includes any British born or converted muslims ! If they are not happy in Britain , then they should move to a country that has as a cultural and legal system that fits their views or religion ! Simple !
5- Any mosques that fail to report any form of radicalisation should be closed .
6- Government should target web sites that promote radical islam ! Shut them them down , and hunt the people behind them ! Not come up with BS notions of regulating the web as a whole , as that affects the freedoms of the rest of us !
7- Rethink the quaint notion of "unarmed" police !
8- Limit and electronically "tag" (passports , drivers licences or any other id documents), and target anyone that frequents certain mosques or web sites , that promote islam ! This might seem discriminatory to all muslims , but its time that muslims as a whole reject the bad apples in their midsts !
To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target !
Its time we did it to them !
No new laws needed ! Just the balls and political will to apply the existing ones to their full extent !
Sorry to say this Tony, but you like most people are talking rubbish.
Here is the simple and very unpalatable truth.
There really is no such thing as terrorism be it domestic or international.
There is asymmetric war. What is called domestic terrorism is asymmetric civil war or insurrection (as we experienced in NI). International terrorism is just plain simple asymmetric war. There is nothing new in people rejecting their own society and developing loyalties for the enemy and choosing to fight for the enemy rather than for their own side, they are usually called traitors. The way to deal with traitors is to kill them. The way to end a war is to destroy the enemies ability and will to fight or surrender.
Until our leaders stop denying we are at war and stop arming and training our enemy because our leaders and industrialists like their money we have no chance of stopping the attacks our enemy launches against us. Of course for that to happen we all need to face the fact we are at war with a much weaker enemy who relies on the fact that we lack the will to fight because ironically we are too strong militarily. "
No will I am not talking rubbish and you know it !
Its probably the form you might not agree with and not the content per se !
You have added another valid perspective
On a subject that we mostly agree with in technical terms !
Sometimes its you using more plain language , sometimes its me !
And I totally agree with you on your asymmetrical war statement !
I was just not as blunt as you , but if you read my list ... its implicit , and those in the know will read between the lines !
What do you think I mean when I say
" To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target !
Its time we did it to them ! " | |||
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"No will I am not talking rubbish and you know it ! Its probably the form you might not agree with and not the content per se ! You have added another valid perspective On a subject that we mostly agree with in technical terms ! Sometimes its you using more plain language , sometimes its me ! And I totally agree with you on your asymmetrical war statement ! I was just not as blunt as you , but if you read my list ... its implicit , and those in the know will read between the lines ! What do you think I mean when I say " To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target ! Its time we did it to them ! " "Tony, I did not misunderstand you at all. I said you were wrong because you are. I fully understand your emotional response and why you want to hit back at the Muslim population in the UK. But regardless of good it may make you feel it would not reduce the attacks on this country or even help end the war, just like interment or targeting those of the same ethnic origin of enemy in time of war does not help win or bring a war to an end. Personally I think that to bring this war to an end requires the total destruction of the state of Saudi Arabia and its economic base. That will not happen too many very wealthy (powerful) people are too heavily invested in the Saudi economy so as far as those with power are concerned a few thousands or even millions being killed or maimed each year is a price they are quite happy for others to pay. Maybe that will change when the Saudi oil runs out... | |||
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"No will I am not talking rubbish and you know it ! Its probably the form you might not agree with and not the content per se ! You have added another valid perspective On a subject that we mostly agree with in technical terms ! Sometimes its you using more plain language , sometimes its me ! And I totally agree with you on your asymmetrical war statement ! I was just not as blunt as you , but if you read my list ... its implicit , and those in the know will read between the lines ! What do you think I mean when I say " To sum it up ... terror is a sentiment, and an imposed one to disrupt and condition the reality of the target ! Its time we did it to them ! "
Tony, I did not misunderstand you at all. I said you were wrong because you are. I fully understand your emotional response and why you want to hit back at the Muslim population in the UK. But regardless of good it may make you feel it would not reduce the attacks on this country or even help end the war, just like interment or targeting those of the same ethnic origin of enemy in time of war does not help win or bring a war to an end.
Personally I think that to bring this war to an end requires the total destruction of the state of Saudi Arabia and its economic base. That will not happen too many very wealthy (powerful) people are too heavily invested in the Saudi economy so as far as those with power are concerned a few thousands or even millions being killed or maimed each year is a price they are quite happy for others to pay. Maybe that will change when the Saudi oil runs out..."No will ! its not an emotional response ... dont kid yourself ! The muslim population of the UK has a massive responsibility ! we are talking about 4 million people ! If you know your mosque will be shut down or you liberty reduced , you will get more proactive on ing out the bad ones ! And if they scream discrimination .... well ... too bad ! And lets not forget that its true that those populations know that they will suffer reprisals from the extremists if they talk ! But when that happens .... and unfortunately it hasn't, then those muslims will have to decide on which side they want to be ! The war as a whole is another matter ... but one has to start somewhere... and as the saying goes "charity starts at home" And so do robust measures ! | |||
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"A great thread on Twitter yesterday from David Allen Green, a legal and political commentator for the FT. Copied verbatim below. He's got a very good point. Also someone else pointed out that terrorist don't seem to be too bothered with the law anyway. 1. There has been a suggestion that what is needed are new laws against terrorism. 2. Since 2000, there have been many laws about terrorism. 3. Terrorism Act 2000 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 Terrorism Act 2006 4. Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011 Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015 5. Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 Investigatory Powers Act 2016 Among others. 6. There have also been about 100 statutory instruments since 2000 with "Terrorism" in title alone 7. Contained in this legislation are some of the widest, most general provisions in the history of criminal and also surveillance law. 8. Without exaggeration: it is difficult to imagine what more laws about terrorism there could be. 9. Since 2000, the UK has averaged a new terrorism statue every two years. 10. So many terrorism statutes since 2000 government has run out of names for them: Terrorism Act, Anti-Terrorism Act, Counter-Terrorism Act 11. It is easy for a politician do demand "tough" new laws, "crack-downs", "enough is enough", "something must be done"... 12. But government, and parliament, is running out of ways of legislating against terrorism. Every possible way seems to have been done. 13. Whatever the best response to terrorism, making yet more laws will not be the solution. /ends. -Matt" My favourite suggestion on the politics forum was one poster who suggested the death penalty for suicide bombers. That'll deter them I'm sure! | |||
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"Where did the thread on the attack last night disappear to?" As the suspect is still alive, they will be in court at some point soon. There is a potential that any discussion online of the suspect could be deemed contempt of court. Fab may have decided to pull it for that reason. -Matt | |||
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"Where did the thread on the attack last night disappear to? As the suspect is still alive, they will be in court at some point soon. There is a potential that any discussion online of the suspect could be deemed contempt of court. Fab may have decided to pull it for that reason. -Matt" Makes sense. Thanks. | |||
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"Where did the thread on the attack last night disappear to? As the suspect is still alive, they will be in court at some point soon. There is a potential that any discussion online of the suspect could be deemed contempt of court. Fab may have decided to pull it for that reason. -Matt Makes sense. Thanks." yes thanks , I've just got home and as I started it , I was wondering the same ? Hope the perpetrator goes to same hell as the London Bridge And Manchester attacker then they can all play together !!! Race , religion , couler ? Doesn't Matter !!! People who do this are Scum !!! | |||
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"Where did the thread on the attack last night disappear to? As the suspect is still alive, they will be in court at some point soon. There is a potential that any discussion online of the suspect could be deemed contempt of court. Fab may have decided to pull it for that reason. -Matt Makes sense. Thanks. yes thanks , I've just got home and as I started it , I was wondering the same ? Hope the perpetrator goes to same hell as the London Bridge And Manchester attacker then they can all play together !!! Race , religion , couler ? Doesn't Matter !!! People who do this are Scum !!!" So are we going to see similar calls from the usual suspects. Are we going to hear calls about the failure of this man's community to report him? How many people from South Wales or Christians have you seen denouncing him? Why is the bible so full of hate for non-believers? (I'm just guessing his religion here) Or look at where he grew up, Weston-Super-Mare, is it their fault? Was he taught hatred there? Where is the travel ban from South Wales? Lets shut the border, let's close the M4. Do we have enough welsh speaking intelligence operatives? Of course all of this is nonsense. But I hope it will highlight to people who make such comments about so called islamic terrorists that that too is nonsense. | |||
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"Where did the thread on the attack last night disappear to? As the suspect is still alive, they will be in court at some point soon. There is a potential that any discussion online of the suspect could be deemed contempt of court. Fab may have decided to pull it for that reason. -Matt Makes sense. Thanks. yes thanks , I've just got home and as I started it , I was wondering the same ? Hope the perpetrator goes to same hell as the London Bridge And Manchester attacker then they can all play together !!! Race , religion , couler ? Doesn't Matter !!! People who do this are Scum !!! So are we going to see similar calls from the usual suspects. Are we going to hear calls about the failure of this man's community to report him? How many people from South Wales or Christians have you seen denouncing him? Why is the bible so full of hate for non-believers? (I'm just guessing his religion here) Or look at where he grew up, Weston-Super-Mare, is it their fault? Was he taught hatred there? Where is the travel ban from South Wales? Lets shut the border, let's close the M4. Do we have enough welsh speaking intelligence operatives? Of course all of this is nonsense. But I hope it will highlight to people who make such comments about so called islamic terrorists that that too is nonsense. " . Can see what you are getting at ! I suspect this is a lone wolf ! Also it appears his neighbours were Muslim and they got on great ! However I would like to see Christian groups condem him and I would also support a non Muslim not in our name March ! Or an all race unity march ! I'm no hypocrite , as I realise I have said Muslims should condemn terror more ! Perhaps the rest of us should now take the lead ! | |||
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"At least 20 dead and 30 injured in texas church shooting R.I.P." Lets see if Trump calls this a terrorist attack or makes excuses | |||
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"At least 20 dead and 30 injured in texas church shooting R.I.P. Lets see if Trump calls this a terrorist attack or makes excuses " too early...... trump not mentioning terrorism in his tweets... but this is rural texas and gun country... so i doubt it will be anything that is not domestic | |||
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"At least 20 dead and 30 injured in texas church shooting R.I.P. Lets see if Trump calls this a terrorist attack or makes excuses too early...... trump not mentioning terrorism in his tweets... but this is rural texas and gun country... so i doubt it will be anything that is not domestic" Well it will be interesting to see how hypocritical he is on this  | |||
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"At least 20 dead and 30 injured in texas church shooting R.I.P. Lets see if Trump calls this a terrorist attack or makes excuses too early...... trump not mentioning terrorism in his tweets... but this is rural texas and gun country... so i doubt it will be anything that is not domestic Well it will be interesting to see how hypocritical he is on this "do you mean "but it guns so its waaay too early to be talking about this"... or "well he had mental issues".... you mean? | |||
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"Might help if Islam starts altering the evil satanic verses in the Koran or even removing them." That's why that guy shot 55 plus people in Las Vegas....damn muslim | |||
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"Time to break out the handy "Mass shooting in US checklist": 1. Send thoughts & prayers but not actually do anything useful..... tick! 2. Argue over semantics of the term "assault rifle"..... tick! 3. Argue over semantics of the term "terrorist" - if Muslim use it, if Christian/white use term "lone wolf" "mentally ill" "troubled past"..... tick! 4. Congress does nothing but NRA increases donations just in case ..... tick! 5. Wait for next one, rinse,repeat..... tick!" Trump has tweeted.....im monitoring the situation from Japan....yeah right | |||
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"I was watching question time and it was interesting, can you stop it? I dont think you can stop it, but you could minimize it. The Canadian journalist Mark Steyn poses the same question after every terror attack - what is the happy ending in all this for Britain and Europe? Right now it seems that the politicians only plan is to keep spending increasing billions continually fighting off Islamic terror attacks with the goal of keeping deaths to an acceptable level. (Which begs another question - what is an acceptable number of mutilated 8 year old girls?) Already we are hearing same old clichés that we heard after 7/7, Paris (twice), Berlin, and every other terror attack in Europe - "we stand united", "they won't win", "love will triumph" etc etc. What they really mean is that when you are bombed / stabbed / mown down, we will be sad for you too. We're also hearing the same self-loathing bullshit that this was our fault, and that we've brought this on ourselves. Only this time, incredibly, it's from the man who hopes to lead our country. This isn't going away. Please understand this. Every year the number of Muslims throughout Europe increases, and the number of non-Muslims decreases. Demographics is destiny. Your children will be fighting this battle, and your grandchildren. Only difference is there will far fewer of them, and far more of the enemy. Truth is, if we continue on the same political and social trajectory, there is no happy ending. In twenty years time, we'll be looking back to 2017 and the Manchester bombing as the good old days, when deaths really were at an acceptable level. Go back 30 years and trade jihadists for loyalist and nationalist terrorism and youve got many peoples opinions on northern ireland. When you treat an entire section of people as guilty then you create the conditions of hatred and violence. When you ignore what causes terrorism you get stuck in a vicious circle. It baffles me that the UK, of all countries, cant see how to stop this in its tracks. Youve been there, youve seen the braindead tactics of us vs them fail. If you fix a problem with a screwdriver you dont go back to using a hammer the next time you see it. Not equivalent. Stop dredging that one up. You're wrong. Can ISIS thrive without new recruits? No. Can ISIS survive without funding? No. Work to stop radicalisation and you damage ISIS. Work to stop the people funding them and you damage ISIS." Unfortunately one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter when USSR invaded Afghanistan our government and America gave money and equipment to help them fight and one of our allies then was bin laden skip forward 20 yrs USSR left we moved in our ally became our enemy when do we learn from history | |||
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"Time to break out the handy "Mass shooting in US checklist": 1. Send thoughts & prayers but not actually do anything useful..... tick! 2. Argue over semantics of the term "assault rifle"..... tick! 3. Argue over semantics of the term "terrorist" - if Muslim use it, if Christian/white use term "lone wolf" "mentally ill" "troubled past"..... tick! 4. Congress does nothing but NRA increases donations just in case ..... tick! 5. Wait for next one, rinse,repeat..... tick!" They said mentally ill....  | |||
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