Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not when it relates to religious customs unless it would be what they do normally or when visiting a holy place then it is a matter of etiquette and good manners (as in bowing or curtsying to a monarch). " did you see trump courtsey to the saudis. is a lot of talk his mrs not wanting to hold hands, not sure on SA but other countries disprove of public shows of affection | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"did you see trump courtsey to the saudis. is a lot of talk his mrs not wanting to hold hands, not sure on SA but other countries disprove of public shows of affection" Yep... And quite right too. Remember that regardless of what you think of them They are Royal Princes and the Monarch of The House of Saud. They are the hereditary rulers of their country and regardless of how powerful the USA is they all outrank President Trump or the president of any country for that matter. So due respects should be paid to that rank by all of lower rank. In the same way as all military and lower rank diplomats and civilians pay due respect to the Office of President and therefore to Trump. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"to be fair, the whole concept behind the USA's existance is that the notion of regal majesty is a crock of shit " But that is not quite true... The USA was set up in such a way that the privileged few would replace the Crown and use an illusion of a republic in order to keep the masses in line. That was the whole point of having an Electoral College rather than direct elections for the office of president. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day. "So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"to be fair, the whole concept behind the USA's existance is that the notion of regal majesty is a crock of shit "   | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not when it relates to religious customs unless it would be what they do normally or when visiting a holy place then it is a matter of etiquette and good manners (as in bowing or curtsying to a monarch). " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then? "Honestly, I don't really care what he does. I wouldn't have cared if his wife wanted to wear a head scarf. I don't really care that she didn't. It might seem insolent, but I think part of being an American is choosing which cultural practices we want to follow. I know the rest of the world gets angry at us for doing what we want, but I don't really care. There are things that matter in diplomacy. If it's something that is unnecessarily dickish to another culture, then avoid it. But otherwise, I don't think an American audience cares much, and I don't think they should care much. *shrug* | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"it's totally true ... what you said came later " I beg to differ, it came right at the start. The 'Founding Fathers' for all their mighty words only sought to replace the crown with a homegrown US elite. "Monarchs and princes squat to shit, just like everyone else. Since a monarch is nothing better than a successful bandit (or successor thereto, thanks to nothing more virtuous or ethically valid than blood line. Bow or curtsy? A ludicrous convention which should be consigned to the trash can, where it belongs." I agree with you as to where monarchs receive their rank from, and I sympathise with your antipathy to the conventions that surround rank. But I have to disagree with your suggestion that they should be dispensed with. Regardless of how you personally feel about the rules of etiquette they have developed over centuries to reduce the outbreak of conflict by ritualizing the meetings between the powerful and in so doing protecting the powerful from themselves over matters of ego. I am sure you have heard the saying don't shoot the messenger... Do you know it's origin? it comes from a time before we had rules of etiquette and when they were still in their infancy. At that time when the powerful received messages they did not like they usually killed the messenger. This lead to many wars and much bloodshed. The egos of the powerful are just as fragile today as then, would you return to a time when wars were started over an imagined slight by a wounded pride? For me, I'll keep the hierarchy of rank where arguably the most powerful man in the world is required to bow to a bloodthirsty savage without insult being taken because the US president is outranked, but that the women who are part of the presidents group can totally ignore the dress codes of the land they are visiting in a way that would probably get any ordinary woman in Saudi beaten to death or worse. I hope that when you read this you alter your view of the value of etiquette and its roll in the world of the powerful. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"revise it all you want if it floats your boat" It is not about what floats boats, it's about it works, it stops bloodthirsty megalomaniacs from taking umbrage at imagined slights. If it aint broke dont fix it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"now you've gone wildly off topic ... and i can't be arsed with you being contrary and revisionist for the sake of it " Not really, I may be using hyperbole to make a point but I have not gone off topic. However I accept that you have no intention to acknowledge I have a point so we can polity agree to disagree without fighting (which ironically is exactly what etiquette has been designed to do for mere humans wielding more power than is good for any one person to hold).  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then? "If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
"As far as I kmow Trump is protestant | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant "I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant
I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho)"So you think it's wrong that the women in trumps family didn't wear headscarves then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant
I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho)
So you think it's wrong that the women in trumps family didn't wear headscarves then? "No....its their free choice, particularly as they were not in a mosque. I commented (started) a similar thread...they DID wear dark veils when meeting the Pope, however. Maybe sending a signal out there? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant
I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho)
So you think it's wrong that the women in trumps family didn't wear headscarves then?
No....its their free choice, particularly as they were not in a mosque. I commented (started) a similar thread...they DID wear dark veils when meeting the Pope, however. Maybe sending a signal out there?"Is the signal that they respect some religions and not others ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant
I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho)
So you think it's wrong that the women in trumps family didn't wear headscarves then?
No....its their free choice, particularly as they were not in a mosque. I commented (started) a similar thread...they DID wear dark veils when meeting the Pope, however. Maybe sending a signal out there?
Is the signal that they respect some religions and not others ?"mmm.... yes...and no !
With the pope , its protocol, so a mix of tradition and diplomatic good manners !
In Saudi Arabia the same principle would apply if he was visiting a mosque or .... allah forbid a holy place !
But he was not !
It was state visit, and as such , the same principles are not applicable !
There , wearing a head scarf or veil would be a form of submission and mixing of church and sate !
This would be indirectly supporting a religion and state that demeans women !
Personally , I think he did well!
It was powerful statement, making a point to show a religion/state that defends western values merits respect , as opposed to one that doesn't, Saudi Arabia!
A sort of affirmative action.....  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant
I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho)
So you think it's wrong that the women in trumps family didn't wear headscarves then?
No....its their free choice, particularly as they were not in a mosque. I commented (started) a similar thread...they DID wear dark veils when meeting the Pope, however. Maybe sending a signal out there?
Is the signal that they respect some religions and not others ?
mmm.... yes...and no !
With the pope , its protocol, so a mix of tradition and diplomatic good manners !
In Saudi Arabia the same principle would apply if he was visiting a mosque or .... allah forbid a holy place !
But he was not !
It was state visit, and as such , the same principles are not applicable !
There , wearing a head scarf or veil would be a form of submission and mixing of church and sate !
This would be indirectly supporting a religion and state that demeans women !
Personally , I think he did well!
It was powerful statement, making a point to show a religion/state that defends western values merits respect , as opposed to one that doesn't, Saudi Arabia!
A sort of affirmative action..... "So why did he attack Michelle Obama for doing the same thing? We have the mixture or church and state here, is there something wrong with that? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is nothing wrong with showing respect when it is culturally appropriate (like bowing in greeting). Just like there is nothing wrong with acting in accordance with your own cultural norms when appropriate (like not wearing a head scarf). Trump just spoke out of his ass about Michelle Obama because he didn't like her and he doesn't have the foresight necessary for him to have deduced that he might be facing a similar situation one day.
So do you think he shouldn't have worn a skullcap at the western wall then?
If he is of that religion the. It was right of him to, if not then it would be hypocritical to wear it.
As far as I kmow Trump is protestant
I attended a friends son's Bah-Mitzvah. Along with other non Jews. We were given and asked to wear scull caps while in Sinagogue..... no problem there that I saw. (Was allowed to keep my foreskin tho)
So you think it's wrong that the women in trumps family didn't wear headscarves then?
No....its their free choice, particularly as they were not in a mosque. I commented (started) a similar thread...they DID wear dark veils when meeting the Pope, however. Maybe sending a signal out there?
Is the signal that they respect some religions and not others ?
mmm.... yes...and no !
With the pope , its protocol, so a mix of tradition and diplomatic good manners !
In Saudi Arabia the same principle would apply if he was visiting a mosque or .... allah forbid a holy place !
But he was not !
It was state visit, and as such , the same principles are not applicable !
There , wearing a head scarf or veil would be a form of submission and mixing of church and sate !
This would be indirectly supporting a religion and state that demeans women !
Personally , I think he did well!
It was powerful statement, making a point to show a religion/state that defends western values merits respect , as opposed to one that doesn't, Saudi Arabia!
A sort of affirmative action.....
So why did he attack Michelle Obama for doing the same thing?
We have the mixture or church and state here, is there something wrong with that?"Within reason no ! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
