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Labour manifesto

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Leaked? Or deliberately released early?

I say leak, schmeak..... shouts of being an obvious ploy tho.

The contents are interesting too! Straight out of Derek Hatton's 1980's little red Militant Tendancy Book!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

1983 all over again.

It will appeal to hard line socialists but the rest of the country will just ROFL.

It could be the longest suicide note in history it's just that I can't remember how many pages were in the 1983 one.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"1983 all over again.

It will appeal to hard line socialists but the rest of the country will just ROFL.

It could be the longest suicide note in history it's just that I can't remember how many pages were in the 1983 one. "

The country already ROFL at Diane Abbott's car crash interview on LBC radio the other week. Then there was Jeremy Corbyn's car crash interview on the BBC the other day, then another car crash interview from Labour's shadow education secretary on LBC radio yesterday. What a shambles they are. The Labour manifesto is just keeping the laughs coming.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"1983 all over again.

It will appeal to hard line socialists but the rest of the country will just ROFL.

It could be the longest suicide note in history it's just that I can't remember how many pages were in the 1983 one.

The country already ROFL at Diane Abbott's car crash interview on LBC radio the other week. Then there was Jeremy Corbyn's car crash interview on the BBC the other day, then another car crash interview from Labour's shadow education secretary on LBC radio yesterday. What a shambles they are. The Labour manifesto is just keeping the laughs coming. "

Yes, it does seem to be becoming a bit Pythonesque. To say the least.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it could be worse for them than 1983, but it is what it is, an agenda which may appeal to some people, not me I hasten to add, I think it's a "Good luck with that lot Jezza".

The bottom line is no one can commit to any spending plans until the "Brexit bill is sorted". There is a price to be paid to leave the EU, make no mistake about that. I reckon they'll settle at about £ 50 Billion on the divorce bill so that we'll continue to pay our contributions till around 2020 and then we can look forward to a £ 50 billion drop in GDP along with all the pleasure of higher unemployment and civil strife that that bring while we adjust to the new trading arrangements and bust a gut to make ourselves competitive again.

It'll be back to the 80s whether we like it or not I reckon.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

You say it's straight out of 1983 but there is some stuff in there that sounds backwards but are actually reasonable

For example.. the railways.. the government use to run the east coast main line till a yr ago.. and it was making money and the service had actually improved than when private companies ran it

The energy stuff.. he actually is not saying nationalise it!, he suggested there should be a state owned competitor in each region, which is a smart way to drive down prices

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach


"1983 all over again.

It will appeal to hard line socialists but the rest of the country will just ROFL.

It could be the longest suicide note in history it's just that I can't remember how many pages were in the 1983 one.

The country already ROFL at Diane Abbott's car crash interview on LBC radio the other week. Then there was Jeremy Corbyn's car crash interview on the BBC the other day, then another car crash interview from Labour's shadow education secretary on LBC radio yesterday. What a shambles they are. The Labour manifesto is just keeping the laughs coming.

Yes, it does seem to be becoming a bit Pythonesque. To say the least.

"

Hmmm, Theresa really came across well on The One Show I thought. Not at all out of touch with reality...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unless you have a time machine and have been to the future and seen this then it's all just speculation

Let's wait and see after the talks have broken down a couple of times because I'm pretty sure that's going to happen

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach


"You say it's straight out of 1983 but there is some stuff in there that sounds backwards but are actually reasonable

For example.. the railways.. the government use to run the east coast main line till a yr ago.. and it was making money and the service had actually improved than when private companies ran it

The energy stuff.. he actually is not saying nationalise it!, he suggested there should be a state owned competitor in each region, which is a smart way to drive down prices

"

Exactly, you could even argue that with the "energy cap" that the Tories have admitted "the market" does not work in this area, and that the State has to get involved.

You can then take that and point at a number of areas "the market" does not seem to work...

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"1983 all over again.

It will appeal to hard line socialists but the rest of the country will just ROFL.

It could be the longest suicide note in history it's just that I can't remember how many pages were in the 1983 one.

The country already ROFL at Diane Abbott's car crash interview on LBC radio the other week. Then there was Jeremy Corbyn's car crash interview on the BBC the other day, then another car crash interview from Labour's shadow education secretary on LBC radio yesterday. What a shambles they are. The Labour manifesto is just keeping the laughs coming.

Yes, it does seem to be becoming a bit Pythonesque. To say the least.

"

Not Pythonesque enough it seems.

Now the car Corbyn arrived in to speak at a venue ran over a cameramans foot, the cameraman had to be stretchered away. Car crash interviews were not enough, Labour had to throw a literal car crash in there to top it off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Corbyn wrote it, Blair/Mandelson/Campbell leaked it. A snake in its death throes.

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By *on and TammyCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

Now i've only seen excerpts (has the whole 51 page document been released?) and I'm no socialist but being a regular working man with a young family I think it makes a refreshing change to have a party that actually puts forward policies that will benefit society as a whole and give power back to ordinary people instead of policies designed to strip out this country's soul and hand it to the rich owner class on a silver platter.

It gets my vote.

It's been interesting discussing it with other family members. They had been leaning slightly toward labour this time round (they voted Ukip last time) and it's won their vote too. They were concerned about the 'hardline socialism' that they've been told Corbyn espouses but they're pleasantly surprised at what they see as a very fair and reasonable manifesto.

Not saying Labour will win but i'm not sure this is the hard left socialist suicide note that some see it as. No doubt it will be portrayed as that in the right wing media but I'm sure anything Corbyn said would have been given similar treatment.

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"1983 all over again.

It will appeal to hard line socialists but the rest of the country will just ROFL.

It could be the longest suicide note in history it's just that I can't remember how many pages were in the 1983 one.

The country already ROFL at Diane Abbott's car crash interview on LBC radio the other week. Then there was Jeremy Corbyn's car crash interview on the BBC the other day, then another car crash interview from Labour's shadow education secretary on LBC radio yesterday. What a shambles they are. The Labour manifesto is just keeping the laughs coming.

Yes, it does seem to be becoming a bit Pythonesque. To say the least.

Not Pythonesque enough it seems.

Now the car Corbyn arrived in to speak at a venue ran over a cameramans foot, the cameraman had to be stretchered away. Car crash interviews were not enough, Labour had to throw a literal car crash in there to top it off. "

Excellent debating of the issues as always.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Now i've only seen excerpts (has the whole 51 page document been released?) and I'm no socialist but being a regular working man with a young family I think it makes a refreshing change to have a party that actually puts forward policies that will benefit society as a whole and give power back to ordinary people instead of policies designed to strip out this country's soul and hand it to the rich owner class on a silver platter.

It gets my vote.

It's been interesting discussing it with other family members. They had been leaning slightly toward labour this time round (they voted Ukip last time) and it's won their vote too. They were concerned about the 'hardline socialism' that they've been told Corbyn espouses but they're pleasantly surprised at what they see as a very fair and reasonable manifesto.

Not saying Labour will win but i'm not sure this is the hard left socialist suicide note that some see it as. No doubt it will be portrayed as that in the right wing media but I'm sure anything Corbyn said would have been given similar treatment.

"

agreed..

i see nothing wrong with taking back into the public domain our railways and infrastructure/utilities..

we may well pay a lot in the short to medium term but not as much as our kids offspring will do in the future..

bit like taking a hit for the Brexit is acceptable and a consequence happy to be borne by those on the leave side..

surely in a post Brexit UK we want to have control of not only our own sovereignty but the fundamentals of our society..

Its oft said by some that we have the ability, the skills and the will to make the countries that make up the union great again so why is anyone of any political ilk happy that the profits being generated are not kept in the country..?

and yes globalisation and British companies do well abroad but how many other countries are happy with having foreign state owned companies owning their own railways and utilities..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now i've only seen excerpts (has the whole 51 page document been released?) and I'm no socialist but being a regular working man with a young family I think it makes a refreshing change to have a party that actually puts forward policies that will benefit society as a whole and give power back to ordinary people instead of policies designed to strip out this country's soul and hand it to the rich owner class on a silver platter.

It gets my vote.

It's been interesting discussing it with other family members. They had been leaning slightly toward labour this time round (they voted Ukip last time) and it's won their vote too. They were concerned about the 'hardline socialism' that they've been told Corbyn espouses but they're pleasantly surprised at what they see as a very fair and reasonable manifesto.

Not saying Labour will win but i'm not sure this is the hard left socialist suicide note that some see it as. No doubt it will be portrayed as that in the right wing media but I'm sure anything Corbyn said would have been given similar treatment.

"
I agree i think much in the manifesto is vote winning pledges .You can guarantee they've invigorated the youth to get out and vote.I doubt labour will win but a coalition is on the cards.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Actually as a document goes I have to say that even as a centre left leaning person it is nowhere near as extreme as you would think it would be.. it is actually very clever, especially when it talks about how the are going to deal with the deficit.... if a Tory had come up with it they would be lauded

If fact I am guessing Teresa's manifesto is going to be the more radical

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

As a leftie but a Corbyn critic I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the manifesto. I'm fully expecting it to not have been properly costed, though. But maybe I'll be surprised again.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Now i've only seen excerpts (has the whole 51 page document been released?) and I'm no socialist but being a regular working man with a young family I think it makes a refreshing change to have a party that actually puts forward policies that will benefit society as a whole and give power back to ordinary people instead of policies designed to strip out this country's soul and hand it to the rich owner class on a silver platter.

It gets my vote.

It's been interesting discussing it with other family members. They had been leaning slightly toward labour this time round (they voted Ukip last time) and it's won their vote too. They were concerned about the 'hardline socialism' that they've been told Corbyn espouses but they're pleasantly surprised at what they see as a very fair and reasonable manifesto.

Not saying Labour will win but i'm not sure this is the hard left socialist suicide note that some see it as. No doubt it will be portrayed as that in the right wing media but I'm sure anything Corbyn said would have been given similar treatment.

I agree i think much in the manifesto is vote winning pledges .You can guarantee they've invigorated the youth to get out and vote.I doubt labour will win but a coalition is on the cards."

The force of the wishful thinkers is strong in this thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And where is that kind of money coming from?

If they increased the corp tax companies will leave the uk in droves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And where is that kind of money coming from?

If they increased the corp tax companies will leave the uk in droves.

"
All the info you need will be on the side of a battle bus.All the money will come from savings we made from leaving the EU and taxing the corporations.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I'm glad Corbyn is going to be extremely cautious about the use of Trident. Kind of goes without saying thought.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"And where is that kind of money coming from?

If they increased the corp tax companies will leave the uk in droves.

"

Interesting facts on BBC this morning.

In 2010 corporate tax was 28% and raised 43.2bn

In 2016 it was 20% and raised 49.6bn. Because companies invested more and grew.

Would raising the rate back up lead to a reduction in tax take?

Labour are assuming it will bring in an extra 50bn over 5 yrs (according to John McDonald on Marr on Sunday). Can we see that?

Abolishing tuition fees is said to have a cost of 10bn alone....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks. "

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is."

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't nationalise the railway. The Dutch make money from it and keep our fares really low.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?"

In what way is he authoritarian?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

In what way is he authoritarian? "

Are you having a laugh? You never heard his right hand man speak?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

In what way is he authoritarian?

Are you having a laugh? You never heard his right hand man speak?"

Tom Watson?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

In what way is he authoritarian?

Are you having a laugh? You never heard his right hand man speak?

Tom Watson?"

John McDonnel. He refers to members of his own party as bastards for a start but apart from that, what is state direction of the economy/industry if not authoritarian?

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By *wingtolifeCouple
over a year ago

who knows

exciting stuff, seems to be a pretty good manifesto, have to laugh at people moaning about re nationalise railways seeing that most of our railways are ran by foreign governments.

however the eu want our style privatised railways all over europe. and all nationlised railways privatised.

Free education wow thats a game changer too instead of massive debts piled on to parents or students themselves and then only getting a minimum wage job!!

i wouldnt mind going back to the 70s again with free education decent wage from one wage earner and being able to buy the house too.

it seems alot of grown ups dont realise what they had when they were young, and want the children to pay for everything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now i've only seen excerpts (has the whole 51 page document been released?) and I'm no socialist but being a regular working man with a young family I think it makes a refreshing change to have a party that actually puts forward policies that will benefit society as a whole and give power back to ordinary people instead of policies designed to strip out this country's soul and hand it to the rich owner class on a silver platter.

It gets my vote.

It's been interesting discussing it with other family members. They had been leaning slightly toward labour this time round (they voted Ukip last time) and it's won their vote too. They were concerned about the 'hardline socialism' that they've been told Corbyn espouses but they're pleasantly surprised at what they see as a very fair and reasonable manifesto.

Not saying Labour will win but i'm not sure this is the hard left socialist suicide note that some see it as. No doubt it will be portrayed as that in the right wing media but I'm sure anything Corbyn said would have been given similar treatment.

I agree i think much in the manifesto is vote winning pledges .You can guarantee they've invigorated the youth to get out and vote.I doubt labour will win but a coalition is on the cards."
Do you really think so ?

I'm intrigued ?

I disagree with a lot of your views but you know your stuff

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"exciting stuff, seems to be a pretty good manifesto, have to laugh at people moaning about re nationalise railways seeing that most of our railways are ran by foreign governments.

however the eu want our style privatised railways all over europe. and all nationlised railways privatised.

Free education wow thats a game changer too instead of massive debts piled on to parents or students themselves and then only getting a minimum wage job!!

i wouldnt mind going back to the 70s again with free education decent wage from one wage earner and being able to buy the house too.

it seems alot of grown ups dont realise what they had when they were young, and want the children to pay for everything."

How does free university education work in Scotland? Who gets the limited places do you think?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?

If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in.

On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

In what way is he authoritarian?

Are you having a laugh? You never heard his right hand man speak?

Tom Watson?

John McDonnel. He refers to members of his own party as bastards for a start but apart from that, what is state direction of the economy/industry if not authoritarian?"
Standard practice sunshine in the Tory party also.Lets quote john major when he said this about three members of his cabinet.

“Calling three of my colleagues, or a number of my colleagues, ‘bastards’ was absolutely unforgivable. My only excuse is that it was true.”

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By *wingtolifeCouple
over a year ago

who knows


"Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?

If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in.

On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise."
i wouldnt worry about the cost of the trains where bransons concerned, its more of the ill throw my toys out of the pram because cant get own way and sue!!

just like he does with everything else including the NHS

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

In what way is he authoritarian?

Are you having a laugh? You never heard his right hand man speak?

Tom Watson?

John McDonnel. He refers to members of his own party as bastards for a start but apart from that, what is state direction of the economy/industry if not authoritarian? Standard practice sunshine in the Tory party also.Lets quote john major when he said this about three members of his cabinet.

“Calling three of my colleagues, or a number of my colleagues, ‘bastards’ was absolutely unforgivable. My only excuse is that it was true.” "

But Major wasn't authoritarian, he was just a dick. Sunshine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

In what way is he authoritarian?

Are you having a laugh? You never heard his right hand man speak?

Tom Watson?

John McDonnel. He refers to members of his own party as bastards for a start but apart from that, what is state direction of the economy/industry if not authoritarian? Standard practice sunshine in the Tory party also.Lets quote john major when he said this about three members of his cabinet.

“Calling three of my colleagues, or a number of my colleagues, ‘bastards’ was absolutely unforgivable. My only excuse is that it was true.”

But Major wasn't authoritarian, he was just a dick. Sunshine"
A Tory dick.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Now i've only seen excerpts (has the whole 51 page document been released?) and I'm no socialist but being a regular working man with a young family I think it makes a refreshing change to have a party that actually puts forward policies that will benefit society as a whole and give power back to ordinary people instead of policies designed to strip out this country's soul and hand it to the rich owner class on a silver platter.

It gets my vote.

It's been interesting discussing it with other family members. They had been leaning slightly toward labour this time round (they voted Ukip last time) and it's won their vote too. They were concerned about the 'hardline socialism' that they've been told Corbyn espouses but they're pleasantly surprised at what they see as a very fair and reasonable manifesto.

Not saying Labour will win but i'm not sure this is the hard left socialist suicide note that some see it as. No doubt it will be portrayed as that in the right wing media but I'm sure anything Corbyn said would have been given similar treatment.

I agree i think much in the manifesto is vote winning pledges .You can guarantee they've invigorated the youth to get out and vote.I doubt labour will win but a coalition is on the cards. Do you really think so ?

I'm intrigued ?

I disagree with a lot of your views but you know your stuff "
There's much ground to make up and the tories looked a cert.I think they think its in the bag and if the voters think that way who knows.I like the fact you disagree with me Mr suit

but i cant figure out why you dislike the green party and my green politics.We might get a lefty righty coalition

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Day 1- nationalise the railways.

Day 2- give unions more powers.

Day 3- train drivers go on strike over pay.

Day 4- Corbyn- 'what the fu.k do I do now?'

Day 5- 'what the fu.k was I thinking voting Labour? Bring back the Tories'

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?"

actually not as much as you'd think.....

reason being that actually with the East coast main line.... when national express gave back the franchise, they were losing money.... the govt controlled operator turned it around to the point that when this govt basically gave away the franchise it was making a billion pounds a year...


"If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in."

actually... can i tell you a secret.... a lot of operators don't actually make money....cross-country runs at a loss for example, but is propped up using taxpayers money.....


"On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise."

the franchises dont buy the trains, they are actually leased to them by a holding company.... basically it then means that newer trains are brought onto the network.. and the older trains are then cascaded down to replace even older stock... and so on

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?"

Nice try, but you're getting Nationalism confused with Socialism.

Let's forget for a second that many definitions of facism often explicitly define it as right-wing, and use the Mirriam Webster definition which leaves it open.

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".

Now let's some of the above wording specifically and how these might relate to current circumstances.

Nation - Red, White and Blue Brexit anyone?

Race - Bloody Immigrants.

Dictatorial Leader - Strong and stable leadership

Severe economic and social regimentation - austerity

Suppression of opposition - "Enemy of the people" judges.

You seeing a pattern yet?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

the problem actually isn't the policy... but who proposes them....

if you blind tested the policies themselves, people like them....... until they find out who proposes it

i don't see a problem with renationalising the railways (you might finally get some joined up thinking again!)... or royal mail (which was always making money so it was madness for them to sell it off!)

or a national run energy company to compete with the private companies... as long as they are not doing it as a loss leader! for example if they say the govt have to sell at a 2% profit level, then it stops anyone else making gross profits....

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By *wingtolifeCouple
over a year ago

who knows


"Day 1- nationalise the railways.

Day 2- give unions more powers.

Day 3- train drivers go on strike over pay.

Day 4- Corbyn- 'what the fu.k do I do now?'

Day 5- 'what the fu.k was I thinking voting Labour? Bring back the Tories'"

day 1 . privatise the railways.

day 2.milk it for all its worth. over charge customers and offer crappy service. have one of the most expensive train fares in europe.

day3.cut staff down to increase profits even if its a safety concern.staff go on strike.

day 4.May. fuck the workers, they have enough money to feed the kids. and profits come over safety

day 5. why the fuck do i vote tory?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?

If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in.

On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise."

They were talking about nationalising the railways on BBC radio 2 Jeremy Vine show today. Its not going to be as easy as clueless Corbyn and Mad McDonnell think. Shareholders in these private companies will kick up an awful fuss and will try every legal loophole to stop it happening. Corbyn would have a real fight on his hands trying to nationalise the railways, he just hasn't bothered to tell the public how difficult it would be.

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By *wingtolifeCouple
over a year ago

who knows

[Removed by poster at 11/05/17 19:43:38]

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By *wingtolifeCouple
over a year ago

who knows


"Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?

If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in.

On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise.

They were talking about nationalising the railways on BBC radio 2 Jeremy Vine show today. Its not going to be as easy as clueless Corbyn and Mad McDonnell think. Shareholders in these private companies will kick up an awful fuss and will try every legal loophole to stop it happening. Corbyn would have a real fight on his hands trying to nationalise the railways, he just hasn't bothered to tell the public how difficult it would be. "
well you have TTIP on hold, not sure if that was put through where any corporation can sue countries if they have loss of earninga etc

Branson the smarmy git is trying to sue the NHS out of millions. Just becauae cant get his own way.

just another step towards Corporatocracy

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?

actually not as much as you'd think.....

reason being that actually with the East coast main line.... when national express gave back the franchise, they were losing money.... the govt controlled operator turned it around to the point that when this govt basically gave away the franchise it was making a billion pounds a year...

If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in.

actually... can i tell you a secret.... a lot of operators don't actually make money....cross-country runs at a loss for example, but is propped up using taxpayers money.....

On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise.

the franchises dont buy the trains, they are actually leased to them by a holding company.... basically it then means that newer trains are brought onto the network.. and the older trains are then cascaded down to replace even older stock... and so on

"

National Express was losing money on the East Coast Main Line franchise. They bid way over the odds and promised far too much in order to gain one of the flagship franchises. They got their fingers well and truly burnt but this was predicted by many railway insiders. Coupled with a decline in lucrative business travel during the financial crash, losses became unsustainable.

When the Goverment ran it, it was merely a re-branding exercise and had no real investment.

As I understand it, Virgin and the other shareholder, Stagecoach, are buying the new trains. Many private freight operators are also investing heavily in new front end hardware, but yes, leasing companies such as Porterbrook, do own the majority of the railway rolling stock. However, they do belong to somebody and not the Goverment.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"Has the cost of re-nationalising the railways been costed yet?

If Labour win power on June 8th, then I can't see any of the private railway franchises putting any more investment in.

On my line, Virgin has 65 new train sets on order, with delivery due to start next year. They also own lots of other trainsets on the West Coast and Cross-Country. How much is it going to cost the taxpayer to buy these, and thats just one franchise.

They were talking about nationalising the railways on BBC radio 2 Jeremy Vine show today. Its not going to be as easy as clueless Corbyn and Mad McDonnell think. Shareholders in these private companies will kick up an awful fuss and will try every legal loophole to stop it happening. Corbyn would have a real fight on his hands trying to nationalise the railways, he just hasn't bothered to tell the public how difficult it would be. well you have TTIP on hold, not sure if that was put through where any corporation can sue countries if they have loss of earninga etc

Branson the smarmy git is trying to sue the NHS out of millions. Just becauae cant get his own way.

just another step towards Corporatocracy "

Well the bit of the nhs K works for is run by virgin and they are making a far better job of it than before, trying to shift out the incompetant managers and working more efficiently than before so allowing more front line staff,but of course its the old style union and crap managers that are protecting their cosy life style and political dogma that are trying to stop it, and I believe its true to say he runs it as not for profit too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

Nice try, but you're getting Nationalism confused with Socialism.

Let's forget for a second that many definitions of facism often explicitly define it as right-wing, and use the Mirriam Webster definition which leaves it open.

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".

Now let's some of the above wording specifically and how these might relate to current circumstances.

Nation - Red, White and Blue Brexit anyone?

Race - Bloody Immigrants.

Dictatorial Leader - Strong and stable leadership

Severe economic and social regimentation - austerity

Suppression of opposition - "Enemy of the people" judges.

You seeing a pattern yet?

"

Doh . As I've said before, you're really not very bright. A lot of those things could be associated with Corbyn which is why I said I don't know whether he's a fascist or a communist. Marxist for sure. A fascists aim is to use a country's assets to increase the country's strength, this leads to nationalisation of assets which resembles marxism. And no I am not confusing nationalism with socialism, they are nothing alike

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

Nice try, but you're getting Nationalism confused with Socialism.

Let's forget for a second that many definitions of facism often explicitly define it as right-wing, and use the Mirriam Webster definition which leaves it open.

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".

Now let's some of the above wording specifically and how these might relate to current circumstances.

Nation - Red, White and Blue Brexit anyone?

Race - Bloody Immigrants.

Dictatorial Leader - Strong and stable leadership

Severe economic and social regimentation - austerity

Suppression of opposition - "Enemy of the people" judges.

You seeing a pattern yet?

Doh . As I've said before, you're really not very bright. A lot of those things could be associated with Corbyn which is why I said I don't know whether he's a fascist or a communist. Marxist for sure. A fascists aim is to use a country's assets to increase the country's strength, this leads to nationalisation of assets which resembles marxism. And no I am not confusing nationalism with socialism, they are nothing alike"

Are you sure?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

Nice try, but you're getting Nationalism confused with Socialism.

Let's forget for a second that many definitions of facism often explicitly define it as right-wing, and use the Mirriam Webster definition which leaves it open.

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".

Now let's some of the above wording specifically and how these might relate to current circumstances.

Nation - Red, White and Blue Brexit anyone?

Race - Bloody Immigrants.

Dictatorial Leader - Strong and stable leadership

Severe economic and social regimentation - austerity

Suppression of opposition - "Enemy of the people" judges.

You seeing a pattern yet?

Doh . As I've said before, you're really not very bright. A lot of those things could be associated with Corbyn which is why I said I don't know whether he's a fascist or a communist. Marxist for sure. A fascists aim is to use a country's assets to increase the country's strength, this leads to nationalisation of assets which resembles marxism. And no I am not confusing nationalism with socialism, they are nothing alike

Are you sure?"

About what?

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"I'm not sure whether Corbyn is a communist of a fascist. Either way the manifesto is bollocks.

I'm not sure you understand what facism is.

National socialism. Why, what do you think it is?

Nice try, but you're getting Nationalism confused with Socialism.

Let's forget for a second that many definitions of facism often explicitly define it as right-wing, and use the Mirriam Webster definition which leaves it open.

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".

Now let's some of the above wording specifically and how these might relate to current circumstances.

Nation - Red, White and Blue Brexit anyone?

Race - Bloody Immigrants.

Dictatorial Leader - Strong and stable leadership

Severe economic and social regimentation - austerity

Suppression of opposition - "Enemy of the people" judges.

You seeing a pattern yet?

Doh . As I've said before, you're really not very bright. A lot of those things could be associated with Corbyn which is why I said I don't know whether he's a fascist or a communist. Marxist for sure. A fascists aim is to use a country's assets to increase the country's strength, this leads to nationalisation of assets which resembles marxism. And no I am not confusing nationalism with socialism, they are nothing alike

Are you sure?

About what?"

Anything. Ever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You say it's straight out of 1983 but there is some stuff in there that sounds backwards but are actually reasonable

For example.. the railways.. the government use to run the east coast main line till a yr ago.. and it was making money and the service had actually improved than when private companies ran it

The energy stuff.. he actually is not saying nationalise it!, he suggested there should be a state owned competitor in each region, which is a smart way to drive down prices

"

Didn't theodore roosevelt suggest ideas like that?

And didnt he take his big stick to break up the rockefeller monopoly? That sounds more left wing than corbyn.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Leaked? Or deliberately released early?

I say leak, schmeak..... shouts of being an obvious ploy tho.

The contents are interesting too! Straight out of Derek Hatton's 1980's little red Militant Tendancy Book!"
.

I was reading the other day that highly respected Noam Chomsky said he would vote for labour

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Leaked? Or deliberately released early?

I say leak, schmeak..... shouts of being an obvious ploy tho.

The contents are interesting too! Straight out of Derek Hatton's 1980's little red Militant Tendancy Book!.

I was reading the other day that highly respected Noam Chomsky said he would vote for labour"
Well hes a fan of Bernie in the states and there are similarities.Most on this forum would never of heard of him though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You say it's straight out of 1983 but there is some stuff in there that sounds backwards but are actually reasonable

For example.. the railways.. the government use to run the east coast main line till a yr ago.. and it was making money and the service had actually improved than when private companies ran it

The energy stuff.. he actually is not saying nationalise it!, he suggested there should be a state owned competitor in each region, which is a smart way to drive down prices

Didn't theodore roosevelt suggest ideas like that?

And didnt he take his big stick to break up the rockefeller monopoly? That sounds more left wing than corbyn."
.

He was in power but he was actually against breaking up standard oil! Surprise surprise hey

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Leaked? Or deliberately released early?

I say leak, schmeak..... shouts of being an obvious ploy tho.

The contents are interesting too! Straight out of Derek Hatton's 1980's little red Militant Tendancy Book!.

I was reading the other day that highly respected Noam Chomsky said he would vote for labour Well hes a fan of Bernie in the states and there are similarities.Most on this forum would never of heard of him though. "
.

He's one of the most respected linguistic professors in the world, his depth of knowledge on foreign policy is pretty much unrivalled and even today in his 80s hes very much on the ball

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Leaked? Or deliberately released early?

I say leak, schmeak..... shouts of being an obvious ploy tho.

The contents are interesting too! Straight out of Derek Hatton's 1980's little red Militant Tendancy Book!.

I was reading the other day that highly respected Noam Chomsky said he would vote for labour Well hes a fan of Bernie in the states and there are similarities.Most on this forum would never of heard of him though. .

He's one of the most respected linguistic professors in the world, his depth of knowledge on foreign policy is pretty much unrivalled and even today in his 80s hes very much on the ball"
He's an intellectual and thats a dirty word these days amongst the masses.Critical thinking if frowned upon.Those in in power manufacture consent of the masses as the great chomsky points out..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You say it's straight out of 1983 but there is some stuff in there that sounds backwards but are actually reasonable

For example.. the railways.. the government use to run the east coast main line till a yr ago.. and it was making money and the service had actually improved than when private companies ran it

The energy stuff.. he actually is not saying nationalise it!, he suggested there should be a state owned competitor in each region, which is a smart way to drive down prices

Didn't theodore roosevelt suggest ideas like that?

And didnt he take his big stick to break up the rockefeller monopoly? That sounds more left wing than corbyn..

He was in power but he was actually against breaking up standard oil! Surprise surprise hey"

Is that correct? I didn't know that. I thought he felt he needed to break it up as it stiffled competition in the petroleum industry and all the associated supply chains?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You say it's straight out of 1983 but there is some stuff in there that sounds backwards but are actually reasonable

For example.. the railways.. the government use to run the east coast main line till a yr ago.. and it was making money and the service had actually improved than when private companies ran it

The energy stuff.. he actually is not saying nationalise it!, he suggested there should be a state owned competitor in each region, which is a smart way to drive down prices

Didn't theodore roosevelt suggest ideas like that?

And didnt he take his big stick to break up the rockefeller monopoly? That sounds more left wing than corbyn..

He was in power but he was actually against breaking up standard oil! Surprise surprise hey

Is that correct? I didn't know that. I thought he felt he needed to break it up as it stiffled competition in the petroleum industry and all the associated supply chains?"
.

Err yes if I remember correctly he was more pressured into it by some of the first what you'd call investigative journalist!.

Teddy was a strange but fascinating president, a kind of eccentric but he didnt believe in breaking up large multinationals like standard oil, he was more for galavanting off to Panama and building canals

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