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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers What do you think of their draft? "Not leave the EU without a deal? That just tells the EU straight away to offer the worst deal possible so we won't leave then. The EU would make mince meat out of Corbyn and Labour in any Brexit negotiations. Corbyn also refused to say we would leave the EU several times the other day in a television interview with BBC's Laura Kunessburg. This general election is all about Brexit but Labours position on Brexit is a shambles. When you add Corbyn's car crash bbc interview on the EU to Diane Abbott's car crash interview on LBC radio about police and now another car crash interview on LBC radio again with Labours shadow education secretary Angela Rayner on school class sizes just the other day it's become clear Labour are a shambles and are not fit to govern. | |||
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"Sounds better than the Tories. All they're concerned about right now is bringing back fox hunting"  | |||
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"Many on the news also agreed it was good "That's a pleasant surprise. Even BBC and Sky? Mr | |||
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"Many on the news also agreed it was good
That's a pleasant surprise. Even BBC and Sky?
Mr"Yes, it was on the bbc news and one said it was a good future plan for the country. | |||
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"Sounds better than the Tories. All they're concerned about right now is bringing back fox hunting" So fucking true they seem to think people in the country side will vote for them if the allow their posh toffs friends to hunt a little defenceless animal.I think the country folk want a decent broadband conection better bus services and a hospital thats not 80 miles away...no its all about foxes.  | |||
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"Sounds better than the Tories. All they're concerned about right now is bringing back fox huntingSo fucking true they seem to think people in the country side will vote for them if the allow their posh toffs friends to hunt a little defenceless animal.I think the country folk want a decent broadband conection better bus services and a hospital thats not 80 miles away...no its all about foxes. "You want to build hospitals in the middle of the countryside then? | |||
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"Sounds better than the Tories. All they're concerned about right now is bringing back fox huntingSo fucking true they seem to think people in the country side will vote for them if the allow their posh toffs friends to hunt a little defenceless animal.I think the country folk want a decent broadband conection better bus services and a hospital thats not 80 miles away...no its all about foxes.
You want to build hospitals in the middle of the countryside then? "Do you want to kill foxes. . | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament " Funded how? " Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration " That's not a policy " Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes " Neither is that. " Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act " The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites " Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining " Funded how? " Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts " Fine " Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS " Good luck collecting it " Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers " They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? " What do you think of their draft? "I'd give it a 10% chance of success | |||
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"Sounds better than the Tories. All they're concerned about right now is bringing back fox huntingSo fucking true they seem to think people in the country side will vote for them if the allow their posh toffs friends to hunt a little defenceless animal.I think the country folk want a decent broadband conection better bus services and a hospital thats not 80 miles away...no its all about foxes.
You want to build hospitals in the middle of the countryside then? "Yes, to many huddersfield is in the countryside, they deserve a good quality hospital dont they? | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. " The soviet union owned all the means of production, but it didn't work out so well. | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. The soviet union owned all the means of production, but it didn't work out so well. " whats russia got to do with it. but edf is is french gov owned and hugely successful and the french get dividends from its profits. why cant the uk operate a hugely succesful energy co? | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. The soviet union owned all the means of production, but it didn't work out so well. whats russia got to do with it. but edf is is french gov owned and hugely successful and the french get dividends from its profits. why cant the uk operate a hugely succesful energy co? " Because of the agent-principle problem | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. " Same with the railways. The tories want it private owned by foreign companies yet we heavily subsidise it! | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him." Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him. Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up " The Tories do not mention it either | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him. Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up The Tories do not mention it either" They do it though | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him. Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up The Tories do not mention it either They do it though" Stephen hawkins is pretty disabled but still contributes a lot to society, I think thats all that is expected of people, I personally know someone who is in a wheel chair being paralysed from the chest down but still does a more than full time and physical job. I fully support giving people help but they need to help themselves also | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him. Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up The Tories do not mention it either They do it though Stephen hawkins is pretty disabled but still contributes a lot to society, I think thats all that is expected of people, I personally know someone who is in a wheel chair being paralysed from the chest down but still does a more than full time and physical job. I fully support giving people help but they need to help themselves also " I've copied and pasted this from another thread I posted in. I work as a carer for a severely disabled person who's condition won't get any better. He is not a lazy, feckless scrounger. As much as he would like to, and as many academic qualifications as he has, he simply cannot work. The way he has been treated over the last 5 years though is one of the most despicable things I've seen in my life. He's had social workers in his home interrogating him and asking him to justify every single thing he's given. The tone of voice of these people when talking to him is shocking, complete suspicion. They wanted to put motion sensor cameras in his house to monitor how much his staff 'moved', as if such information tells them everything about how much we work and, by asking for such a measure, failing to understand how much emotional support his staff provide to him. At the time of undergoing this ordeal he was going through some serious mental health issues as a result of a family bereavement (all of which social services knew about) and was undergoing counselling. He had to take legal action against them to stop them implementing the measures they wanted, this was difficult as he's only allowed a very small amount of savings. He won but he's much worse off financially as a result and is now existing hand to mouth each month, and is extremely stressed as a result of his precarious financial situation. Oh, and he has to pay bedroom tax for a 'spare' room he has in his home which actually has a lift in it so he can get up and down the stairs. As a result none of his staff have had a pay rise in 5 years, so he's worse off and so are all his staff, he's also worried we're going to do one if he can't give us a raise soon. He's got the authorities off his back for now but he's terrified at the prospect of further Tory rule. There are many other horror stories from his friends and acquaintances I could share but but I'd be here all day. Basically though, all of us involved are worse off. There's just no way the above should be happening in a country as rich as ours, that can still afford massive tax breaks for the rich and subsidies to wealthy private companies by the way, and it should shame everyone that votes Tory that our most vulnerable in society are treated this way. Are you actually defending the Tories treatment of the disabled? I'm talking primarily about Ian Duncan Smiths stint as head of DWP. Between 2011 and 2014 approximately 2300 disabled people died after being declared fit for work by the government. Now, maybe a small number of those genuinely were fit to work and just met an unfortunate accident but that's still an extremely high figure that the Tories have never saw fit to explain. | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. Same with the railways. The tories want it private owned by foreign companies yet we heavily subsidise it! " The railways are competed by a competitive tendering process. That means that if anyone, including the government itself, felt they could run them without needing subsidies then they would win the tender. The fact that nobody thinks they can tells you all you need to know. Some of that is down to the rather odd structure of the industry where the track is seperate from the operator, but flipping between private and public ownership won't change a thing since public bodies can bid today if they want to. | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. Same with the railways. The tories want it private owned by foreign companies yet we heavily subsidise it! The railways are competed by a competitive tendering process. That means that if anyone, including the government itself, felt they could run them without needing subsidies then they would win the tender. The fact that nobody thinks they can tells you all you need to know. Some of that is down to the rather odd structure of the industry where the track is seperate from the operator, but flipping between private and public ownership won't change a thing since public bodies can bid today if they want to. " As tje rolling stock is separately owned from the track, no real attemot is made to maintain it, thus causing track damage and more costs. (on a documentry) I'd like to know how they (private companies) are doing and if they are making money why can't we? | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. Same with the railways. The tories want it private owned by foreign companies yet we heavily subsidise it! The railways are competed by a competitive tendering process. That means that if anyone, including the government itself, felt they could run them without needing subsidies then they would win the tender. The fact that nobody thinks they can tells you all you need to know. Some of that is down to the rather odd structure of the industry where the track is seperate from the operator, but flipping between private and public ownership won't change a thing since public bodies can bid today if they want to. As tje rolling stock is separately owned from the track, no real attemot is made to maintain it, thus causing track damage and more costs. (on a documentry) I'd like to know how they (private companies) are doing and if they are making money why can't we? " Obviously we can't let the rail system go bust so if we arw subsidising it at least wr get our money back | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. Same with the railways. The tories want it private owned by foreign companies yet we heavily subsidise it! The railways are competed by a competitive tendering process. That means that if anyone, including the government itself, felt they could run them without needing subsidies then they would win the tender. The fact that nobody thinks they can tells you all you need to know. Some of that is down to the rather odd structure of the industry where the track is seperate from the operator, but flipping between private and public ownership won't change a thing since public bodies can bid today if they want to. As tje rolling stock is separately owned from the track, no real attemot is made to maintain it, thus causing track damage and more costs. (on a documentry) I'd like to know how they (private companies) are doing and if they are making money why can't we? Obviously we can't let the rail system go bust so if we arw subsidising it at least wr get our money back" It doesn't follow that way. If what you said was true then the soviet union would have had a better economy than the american one. It's counter intuative but the profit motivate generally produces lower costs than a market without it. Not in every single case but certainly on average. | |||
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"thats what all nay says say is how how how? why do they only believe in the status quo? lets take for example edf energy. which is French by the way. owned by the french state. owned by the french people. .edf make millions of profit. guess where that money goes? to the french people. Same with the railways. The tories want it private owned by foreign companies yet we heavily subsidise it! The railways are competed by a competitive tendering process. That means that if anyone, including the government itself, felt they could run them without needing subsidies then they would win the tender. The fact that nobody thinks they can tells you all you need to know. Some of that is down to the rather odd structure of the industry where the track is seperate from the operator, but flipping between private and public ownership won't change a thing since public bodies can bid today if they want to. As tje rolling stock is separately owned from the track, no real attemot is made to maintain it, thus causing track damage and more costs. (on a documentry) I'd like to know how they (private companies) are doing and if they are making money why can't we? " Network Rail has had several overspends on some projects, and this has led to some "enhancement" projects being put on hold during Contract Period 5, which runs out in 2019. Safety critical work is always carried out and the UK has the safest railway system in Europe. | |||
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"Having read it and listened to the labour candidates on tv. I feel their local issues approach has made it clear this is a JC/union led piece of work not backed by the mp's. Surprised they they have not followed the fibdems and want 16 yrs olds to vote in the free the campaign. "When you say fibdems, you imply some sort to exclusivity on lying to the lib dems - as opposed to Blair's WMDs or Mrs May who won't be calling a snap election or Mr Cameron who will elimiate the deficit this term | |||
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"Having read it and listened to the labour candidates on tv. I feel their local issues approach has made it clear this is a JC/union led piece of work not backed by the mp's. Surprised they they have not followed the fibdems and want 16 yrs olds to vote in the free the campaign.
When you say fibdems, you imply some sort to exclusivity on lying to the lib dems - as opposed to Blair's WMDs or Mrs May who won't be calling a snap election or Mr Cameron who will elimiate the deficit this term"vyeah theyre all lying psychopaths, but people seem to have some kind of stockholm syndrome. | |||
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"I live in the Ashfield area. we have independants formerly the libdems. one is up for 20 + child sex offences the one standing for mp just happened to find 20k worth of paintings from a skip and still wasnt charged cos she found them ! they appear to fib a lot round here "Anecdotal examples cannot be used to prove a trend | |||
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"Having read it and listened to the labour candidates on tv. I feel their local issues approach has made it clear this is a JC/union led piece of work not backed by the mp's. Surprised they they have not followed the fibdems and want 16 yrs olds to vote in the free the campaign.
When you say fibdems, you imply some sort to exclusivity on lying to the lib dems - as opposed to Blair's WMDs or Mrs May who won't be calling a snap election or Mr Cameron who will elimiate the deficit this termvyeah theyre all lying psychopaths, but people seem to have some kind of stockholm syndrome."They are demagogues. This is exactly what socrates said would happen if every moron was allowed to vote as their birthright. As did John Stuart Mill. | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him." Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know. | |||
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"Having read it and listened to the labour candidates on tv. I feel their local issues approach has made it clear this is a JC/union led piece of work not backed by the mp's. Surprised they they have not followed the fibdems and want 16 yrs olds to vote in the free the campaign.
When you say fibdems, you imply some sort to exclusivity on lying to the lib dems - as opposed to Blair's WMDs or Mrs May who won't be calling a snap election or Mr Cameron who will elimiate the deficit this termvyeah theyre all lying psychopaths, but people seem to have some kind of stockholm syndrome.
They are demagogues. This is exactly what socrates said would happen if every moron was allowed to vote as their birthright. As did John Stuart Mill."A Facebook addled 16 year old is not equipped to vote... Neither are most 46 year olds | |||
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"It's all very well talking about the Soviet Union whenever there's a faint whiff of socialist policies. I could do the same and with free market capitalism and say "well, in Chile under Pinochet...". There are a lot of complex reasons why the Soviet Union failed, although ther military spending was probably a big factor. Labour's spending plans will be fully costed. Scarcity of housing, and the fact that so much of it is owned by private landlords are the reasons why it's so unaffordable. The tory solution is "we'll ALLOW housing to be built and the magical invisible hand of the market will build them for us". Who's living in a fantasy world here? " It's not just the Soviet union though, the only country not to have abandoned communism is north korea. Every single time it's been tried it wrecks the economy of the country. You are living in a fantasy world if you think any government wants to make housing more affordable. It's very simple, look at the number of voters who own houses conpared to those who don't. Depreciating their biggest asset is probably the quickest way possible to lose office. Houses are the nation's ponzi scheme. | |||
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"Anecdotal examples cannot be used to prove a trend" *Argues state ownership of industry can't work because USSR China has done pretty well though. | |||
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"Anecdotal examples cannot be used to prove a trend *Argues state ownership of industry can't work because USSR China has done pretty well though. " China!!! The country whose greatest economic successes came after abandoning communism and gradually privatising industry. I'm not sure that's the example you wanted. | |||
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"Have you ever thought that most people just want somewhere to live, as opposed to "assets"? " Changing the semantics doesn't address the logic i set out. | |||
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"Please explain to me how you consider neoliberalism to be "working"? " I don't actually have a problem with keysian economics, the problem is that labour does. See keynes is about government being a counterweight to economic cycles. When growth is good then governments should cut back and hold a surplus, then when an economic shock happens they can invest to stimulate the economy. That's perfectly fine except labour didn't do that. They increased real public spending 11/13 years in power. They spend money when the going is good and when the going is bad and never actually have a plan for paying it back. | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
"Filled in the blanks. | |||
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"Its a manifesto that all of us should vote for.. who are displeased with the way things have been for so long.. no matter which side of the left and right you sit on. But have no illusions.. Labour are as guilty of upholding the status quo as conservatives are. What we'd be doing is voicing our displeasure. I'm sure Labour would back peddle as quickly as they always have. Whoever wins.. needs to be held accountable. We need more political justice and reform. If politicians can back peddle with no cost to the party or person.. If we can openly mock the ridiculousness of it all and still nothing changed.. Then something is seriously wrong." Can you try and define the point your displeasure starts? You can round it to a decade but when did it all start going wrong in your opinion? | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks."Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. "all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt."The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? "yeah what did the unions and socialists ever do for us. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? yeah what did the unions and socialists ever do for us."Neither of those are economic systems | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? yeah what did the unions and socialists ever do for us.
Neither of those are economic systems "eating a better diet is generally an educational choice though, i wouldnt say the capitalist way of eating a better diet is any good though. likes of coca cola, kfc, mcd, gm tainted foods, pesticides etc. yeah theres a lot more choice now being global and the education is state capitalist also healthcare is going to towards a corporatocracy. i have nothing against capitalism but you guys want the guys with the money to make the rules, id rather have communism than corporatocracy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? yeah what did the unions and socialists ever do for us.
Neither of those are economic systems eating a better diet is generally an educational choice though, i wouldnt say the capitalist way of eating a better diet is any good though. likes of coca cola, kfc, mcd, gm tainted foods, pesticides etc. yeah theres a lot more choice now being global and the education is state capitalist also healthcare is going to towards a corporatocracy.
i have nothing against capitalism but you guys want the guys with the money to make the rules, id rather have communism than corporatocracy."Move to cuba or north korea then, they'd welcome the support. Capitalism constantly reduces the price of things so the reason average joe eats a better diet is because food is cheaper now. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Its a manifesto that all of us should vote for.. who are displeased with the way things have been for so long.. no matter which side of the left and right you sit on. But have no illusions.. Labour are as guilty of upholding the status quo as conservatives are. What we'd be doing is voicing our displeasure. I'm sure Labour would back peddle as quickly as they always have. Whoever wins.. needs to be held accountable. We need more political justice and reform. If politicians can back peddle with no cost to the party or person.. If we can openly mock the ridiculousness of it all and still nothing changed.. Then something is seriously wrong. Can you try and define the point your displeasure starts? You can round it to a decade but when did it all start going wrong in your opinion? " No I can't give you time scale.. It's a process.. one that's been going for so long that it's hard to imagine a time without it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. "I'm not a Marxist.. I am anti capitalist.. It's not a fair democracy.. all our information is biased.. science, logic, reasoning is all funded by money.. the whole system is rigged deliberately or accidentally in capitalism favour. All things come to an end.. as I mentioned in a previous thread.. AI (Non sentient AI) will kill capitalism very soon.. because it will make workers useless. The two can't coexist for long together unless you tax the industries that use AI and automation so heavily that it become unaffordable automate.. and give it to the jobless.. which seems utterly ridiculous. Or we embrace it and change our society entirely. I'm a realist.. not a capitalist, not a Marxist, socialist or any other label you want to apply. I see what's infront of us based on what came before.. and fro. Listening to people cleverer than I am on all sides of the spectrum.. Who know their sociology, history, economics and science. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? "Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Its a manifesto that all of us should vote for.. who are displeased with the way things have been for so long.. no matter which side of the left and right you sit on. But have no illusions.. Labour are as guilty of upholding the status quo as conservatives are. What we'd be doing is voicing our displeasure. I'm sure Labour would back peddle as quickly as they always have. Whoever wins.. needs to be held accountable. We need more political justice and reform. If politicians can back peddle with no cost to the party or person.. If we can openly mock the ridiculousness of it all and still nothing changed.. Then something is seriously wrong. Can you try and define the point your displeasure starts? You can round it to a decade but when did it all start going wrong in your opinion? No I can't give you time scale.. It's a process.. one that's been going for so long that it's hard to imagine a time without it. " And yet it's indisputable that living standards have been increasing for a very long time... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? yeah what did the unions and socialists ever do for us.
Neither of those are economic systems eating a better diet is generally an educational choice though, i wouldnt say the capitalist way of eating a better diet is any good though. likes of coca cola, kfc, mcd, gm tainted foods, pesticides etc. yeah theres a lot more choice now being global and the education is state capitalist also healthcare is going to towards a corporatocracy.
i have nothing against capitalism but you guys want the guys with the money to make the rules, id rather have communism than corporatocracy.
Move to cuba or north korea then, they'd welcome the support. Capitalism constantly reduces the price of things so the reason average joe eats a better diet is because food is cheaper now. "But as was pointed out.. the average Joe drinks and eats maccas. Because corporate capitalism wants them too.. they lobby against anything that hurts their profits. It doesn't necessarily make things cheaper at all.. mediocre improvements in drive and drabs to keep prices high.. your phone or cars for instance.. My tangible differences between the galaxy s6, 7 and 8, or Ford Mondeo.. under the hood.. really? No.. they sell us style and bling to keep prices high.. open those eyes. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false?
Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them?"If AI is so intelligent it will create jobs for us | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Its a manifesto that all of us should vote for.. who are displeased with the way things have been for so long.. no matter which side of the left and right you sit on. But have no illusions.. Labour are as guilty of upholding the status quo as conservatives are. What we'd be doing is voicing our displeasure. I'm sure Labour would back peddle as quickly as they always have. Whoever wins.. needs to be held accountable. We need more political justice and reform. If politicians can back peddle with no cost to the party or person.. If we can openly mock the ridiculousness of it all and still nothing changed.. Then something is seriously wrong. Can you try and define the point your displeasure starts? You can round it to a decade but when did it all start going wrong in your opinion? No I can't give you time scale.. It's a process.. one that's been going for so long that it's hard to imagine a time without it. And yet it's indisputable that living standards have been increasing for a very long time... " But how long till the crash? And what happens when it does.. It's inevitable.. look at science.. I'm going to lose my job as an HGV driver soon.. how long till Google out performs you at selling crap.. bet it already is.. how long till it can prescribe your medication, collect your bins, adjust your tax returns.. clean your car, build your home.. then what happens? Look to the future please.. not now.. our present is awful for the majority of the planet.. our future will be worse if we continue down this path.. and it's going to slap you in the face very soon. You'll remember some big headed know it all tree hugger flapping his beak about something like this happening. In fact you'll have probably muttered scum to yourself as you walked past him as he had is arm stretched out begging for some humanity to be handed back to him after he became defunct.. but I'll move over and make space for you and introduce you to the rest of the filth.. when you lose your job. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false?
Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them?
If AI is so intelligent it will create jobs for us"But they'd be pointless.. a bone chucked to the dog to keep it amused. Embrace the automation I say.. I'm happy to lose my job to a driverless truck if it makes our roads safer for us all. If there's very little work left to do.. why do we need fabricate it.. can't we just get on with play? Life and love? | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false? yeah what did the unions and socialists ever do for us.
Neither of those are economic systems eating a better diet is generally an educational choice though, i wouldnt say the capitalist way of eating a better diet is any good though. likes of coca cola, kfc, mcd, gm tainted foods, pesticides etc. yeah theres a lot more choice now being global and the education is state capitalist also healthcare is going to towards a corporatocracy.
i have nothing against capitalism but you guys want the guys with the money to make the rules, id rather have communism than corporatocracy.
Move to cuba or north korea then, they'd welcome the support. Capitalism constantly reduces the price of things so the reason average joe eats a better diet is because food is cheaper now.
But as was pointed out.. the average Joe drinks and eats maccas. Because corporate capitalism wants them too.. they lobby against anything that hurts their profits.
It doesn't necessarily make things cheaper at all.. mediocre improvements in drive and drabs to keep prices high.. your phone or cars for instance.. My tangible differences between the galaxy s6, 7 and 8, or Ford Mondeo.. under the hood.. really? No.. they sell us style and bling to keep prices high.. open those eyes."Well there's two major logical flaws there. Like most lefties you seem to associate a design cause to everything. The argue always goes with some variation of "x happens because y brainwashed them / lobbied them / bribed them etc". Maybe people just eat McDonalds because their brains evolved in an environment where calories were scarce and fat having 9 calories per gram to 4 of carbohydrate or protein kept people alive so modern brains still release a lot of dopamine when eating high fat food. Second theres always this presumption the masses are stupid, i think you'd benefit for reading "the wisdom of crowds". Plenty of brands go bankrupt when new models fail to deliver enough value so it seems odd to assume the surviving brands are doing that. | |||
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"Its a manifesto that all of us should vote for.. who are displeased with the way things have been for so long.. no matter which side of the left and right you sit on. But have no illusions.. Labour are as guilty of upholding the status quo as conservatives are. What we'd be doing is voicing our displeasure. I'm sure Labour would back peddle as quickly as they always have. Whoever wins.. needs to be held accountable. We need more political justice and reform. If politicians can back peddle with no cost to the party or person.. If we can openly mock the ridiculousness of it all and still nothing changed.. Then something is seriously wrong. Can you try and define the point your displeasure starts? You can round it to a decade but when did it all start going wrong in your opinion? No I can't give you time scale.. It's a process.. one that's been going for so long that it's hard to imagine a time without it. And yet it's indisputable that living standards have been increasing for a very long time... But how long till the crash? And what happens when it does.. It's inevitable.. look at science.. I'm going to lose my job as an HGV driver soon.. how long till Google out performs you at selling crap.. bet it already is.. how long till it can prescribe your medication, collect your bins, adjust your tax returns.. clean your car, build your home.. then what happens? Look to the future please.. not now.. our present is awful for the majority of the planet.. our future will be worse if we continue down this path.. and it's going to slap you in the face very soon. You'll remember some big headed know it all tree hugger flapping his beak about something like this happening. In fact you'll have probably muttered scum to yourself as you walked past him as he had is arm stretched out begging for some humanity to be handed back to him after he became defunct.. but I'll move over and make space for you and introduce you to the rest of the filth.. when you lose your job." Remind me again why we won't just reduce the average hours worked which will maintain the number of jobs even as AI takes over most the production? | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false?
Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them?
If AI is so intelligent it will create jobs for us
But they'd be pointless.. a bone chucked to the dog to keep it amused.
Embrace the automation I say.. I'm happy to lose my job to a driverless truck if it makes our roads safer for us all.
If there's very little work left to do.. why do we need fabricate it.. can't we just get on with play? Life and love? "No. To be honest like most tree huggers you just come across as wanting something for nothing  | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false?
Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them?
If AI is so intelligent it will create jobs for us
But they'd be pointless.. a bone chucked to the dog to keep it amused.
Embrace the automation I say.. I'm happy to lose my job to a driverless truck if it makes our roads safer for us all.
If there's very little work left to do.. why do we need fabricate it.. can't we just get on with play? Life and love?
No. To be honest like most tree huggers you just come across as wanting something for nothing "Lol.. closed minds. Come back when you've explored a little further or reality slaps you in the face. I forgive you for resorting to name calling, the argument gets above your level of critical thinking and people lash out at things they don't understand. | |||
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"It's at this point the rational and logical.. go berserk and name call again.. but they can't deny the logic and reason of automation. We can become the CULTURE.. from Iain M Banks.. a society devoted to creativity.. sociability, play.. tell me that doesn't boost creative and critical thinking. What's stopping progress and productivity.. the very thing you all claim is what drives it." Ive given you a logical arguement but you keep ignoring it. Today the average working week is 40 hours. We could create 5x the number of jobs overnight with one law, the maximum hours a human can work a week is 8. Why don't you want more leisure time? | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false?
Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them?
If AI is so intelligent it will create jobs for us
But they'd be pointless.. a bone chucked to the dog to keep it amused.
Embrace the automation I say.. I'm happy to lose my job to a driverless truck if it makes our roads safer for us all.
If there's very little work left to do.. why do we need fabricate it.. can't we just get on with play? Life and love?
No. To be honest like most tree huggers you just come across as wanting something for nothing
Lol.. closed minds. Come back when you've explored a little further or reality slaps you in the face. I forgive you for resorting to name calling, the argument gets above your level of critical thinking and people lash out at things they don't understand."And I'd wager I've worked pretty hard for my share of the booty.. risked my life a few times for this closed off fortress of a Nation.. and currently do 15hr days five days a week.. so it's hardly something for nothing. What is it you do again? | |||
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"our capitalism is another persons detriment,food is cheap because its forced onto the farmers demaning cheapest grains, milk, meats, then its artificially low, then they get state handouts, companies in asia forcing to make jeans at £2 selling at £49 in the uk. so i dont think living conditions play a lot on capitalist society." Nonsense, unlike the societ union or what karl marx ever dreamed of, capitalism increases productivity which enables prices to reduce and wages to rise which is why the average person today is massively better off than 250 years ago and things are cheaper. | |||
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"It's at this point the rational and logical.. go berserk and name call again.. but they can't deny the logic and reason of automation. We can become the CULTURE.. from Iain M Banks.. a society devoted to creativity.. sociability, play.. tell me that doesn't boost creative and critical thinking. What's stopping progress and productivity.. the very thing you all claim is what drives it. Ive given you a logical arguement but you keep ignoring it. Today the average working week is 40 hours. We could create 5x the number of jobs overnight with one law, the maximum hours a human can work a week is 8. Why don't you want more leisure time? " Sorry.. is that an argument against what I'm saying? OFCOURSE I want more leisure time! I do 15hr days! What you're suggesting is what will happen.. we'll all get less work to do.. spread amongst us as automation introduces itself faster.. but it won't stop.. it'll speed up.. unless we make new laws to ban it from taking all the work.. At that point.. we'd just be working for the sake of working.. when we don't have to. That's just nonsence. I don't want something for nothing.. science and Capitalisms demand for ever more profit is taking it out of our hands. To the point it all caves on itself. I'm only pointing out what's happening.. It's not a viewpoint. It's inevitable unless we legislate against it.. but why should we? Why not change our attitudes to the way society should be.. embrace the change, adapt and overcome.. like good little Darwinian monkeys. | |||
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"our capitalism is another persons detriment,food is cheap because its forced onto the farmers demaning cheapest grains, milk, meats, then its artificially low, then they get state handouts, companies in asia forcing to make jeans at £2 selling at £49 in the uk. so i dont think living conditions play a lot on capitalist society. Nonsense, unlike the societ union or what karl marx ever dreamed of, capitalism increases productivity which enables prices to reduce and wages to rise which is why the average person today is massively better off than 250 years ago and things are cheaper. " But times are changing and the system isn't able to cope with the rate of change. It's not nonsense at all. That's burying your head in the sand as the lions are about to pounce. | |||
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"It have been leaked and one of the good points is that they will not leave the eu without a deal, here is some other points: Spend an extra £8bn on social care over the next Parliament Funded how? By robbing the rich to pay the poor. Which I'm in favour of. Refuse to make "false promises" on immigration That's not a policy Yes it is. Promising not to lie. Makes you accountable. Something lacking in modern politics. It's a change. Stress that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using Trident nuclear weapons, which leader Jeremy Corbyn opposes Neither is that. Yes it is, again it's a change from the normal way. Strengthen trade union rights - including increased unionisation across the workforce and repealing last year's Trade Union Act The country needs better productivity, not the strengthen luddites Only if you hold Conservative Capitlist values that cause so much suffering. Scrap the public sector pay cap and reintroduce national pay bargaining Funded how? Robbing the rich to pay the poor. Ban so-called "zero hours" contracts Fine Wow.. really? Very gracious of you. Increase income tax for the highest earning 5% to raise an extra £6bn for the NHS Good luck collecting it The poor are forced to pay, so the rich will be getting their letters from HMRC. Build at least 100,000 council and housing association houses a year Reserve 4,000 homes for rough sleepers They'd do far better to deal with the underlying causes that make the existing housing unaffordable. The last time this happened was in the 1970's, where are they going to go? Underlying causes being a false democracy led by capitalism. What do you think of their draft?
I'd give it a 10% chance of success
I'd give it a better chance than what we currently have.
Filled in the blanks.
Well sure if you are anti-capitalist then vote for a marxist, that makes sense and it is a democracy. But it's just a straight forward historical fact that capitalism is the only economic system that has ever increased living standards over the long term. All attempts at communism have failed - miserably. There is state capitalism but it's record is unproven and patchy. all depends how you define living standards!!! thing with capitalism is the more money, the more debt.
The average British person today has more private living space, eats a better diet, more leisure time, lives longer, has more years of education and better access to healthcare than the average British person 250 years ago. True or false?
Again.. so long as you're alright mate.. what about the rest of the world then? Not your problem is it? And what happens to us when there are no jobs left for us.. because AI took them?
If AI is so intelligent it will create jobs for us
But they'd be pointless.. a bone chucked to the dog to keep it amused.
Embrace the automation I say.. I'm happy to lose my job to a driverless truck if it makes our roads safer for us all.
If there's very little work left to do.. why do we need fabricate it.. can't we just get on with play? Life and love?
No. To be honest like most tree huggers you just come across as wanting something for nothing
Lol.. closed minds. Come back when you've explored a little further or reality slaps you in the face. I forgive you for resorting to name calling, the argument gets above your level of critical thinking and people lash out at things they don't understand.
And I'd wager I've worked pretty hard for my share of the booty.. risked my life a few times for this closed off fortress of a Nation.. and currently do 15hr days five days a week.. so it's hardly something for nothing. What is it you do again? "Oh so you're not a tree hugger then? Which I am sure is what you called yourself somewhere, so I wasn't name calling. You are a capitalist | |||
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"It's at this point the rational and logical.. go berserk and name call again.. but they can't deny the logic and reason of automation. We can become the CULTURE.. from Iain M Banks.. a society devoted to creativity.. sociability, play.. tell me that doesn't boost creative and critical thinking. What's stopping progress and productivity.. the very thing you all claim is what drives it. Ive given you a logical arguement but you keep ignoring it. Today the average working week is 40 hours. We could create 5x the number of jobs overnight with one law, the maximum hours a human can work a week is 8. Why don't you want more leisure time? Sorry.. is that an argument against what I'm saying? OFCOURSE I want more leisure time! I do 15hr days! What you're suggesting is what will happen.. we'll all get less work to do.. spread amongst us as automation introduces itself faster.. but it won't stop.. it'll speed up.. unless we make new laws to ban it from taking all the work.. At that point.. we'd just be working for the sake of working.. when we don't have to. That's just nonsence. I don't want something for nothing.. science and Capitalisms demand for ever more profit is taking it out of our hands. To the point it all caves on itself. I'm only pointing out what's happening.. It's not a viewpoint. It's inevitable unless we legislate against it.. but why should we? Why not change our attitudes to the way society should be.. embrace the change, adapt and overcome.. like good little Darwinian monkeys. " Capitalism doesn't require ever more profit and people have been forecasting its collapse for a while now but it was communism that bit the dust first. I'm still failing to see the problem, we work less hours, have the same ammount of stuff because robots make it... problem? | |||
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"our capitalism is another persons detriment,food is cheap because its forced onto the farmers demaning cheapest grains, milk, meats, then its artificially low, then they get state handouts, companies in asia forcing to make jeans at £2 selling at £49 in the uk. so i dont think living conditions play a lot on capitalist society. Nonsense, unlike the societ union or what karl marx ever dreamed of, capitalism increases productivity which enables prices to reduce and wages to rise which is why the average person today is massively better off than 250 years ago and things are cheaper. But times are changing and the system isn't able to cope with the rate of change. It's not nonsense at all. That's burying your head in the sand as the lions are about to pounce." Generic waffle I'm afriad, that sounds like something a fortune teller would say | |||
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 | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet. "Or less people on it? | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? "So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch."Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy "It appears few have read animal farm 
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy "No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going."Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then? Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well "Then you dont understand entropy and anyone who thinks our currrent system is sustainable,is being willfully ignorant. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well Then you dont understand entropy and anyone who thinks our currrent system is sustainable,is being willfully ignorant. "Alright malthus, the problem is you keep layering assumptions. The system is just fine, the way in which the system operates needs changing. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well "You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing. Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations. But as my friend points out... Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them. Next comes automation. If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources. What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category? Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP! | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well Then you dont understand entropy and anyone who thinks our currrent system is sustainable,is being willfully ignorant.
Alright malthus, the problem is you keep layering assumptions. The system is just fine, the way in which the system operates needs changing. "That's the problem. You think it's fine. Something that's so blindingly obviously impossibly wrong.. if absolutely fine? Carry on jogging people.. nothing to see here. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!"We are going to need really big spaceships or live in a sustainable way there's no third option | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!We are going to need really big spaceships or live in a sustainable way there's no third option"I think Iain M Banks has it right.. if we make the correct choices.. science and philosophy will turn us into The Culture. And they had really big, clever spaceships. Planets become defunct. Or mines. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!"Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!"save your breath dude .... they don't have answers ... they don't think their own thoughts ... they just regurgitate economic papers they've read at some russell group place .... their entire raison d'etre is to argue a point .... soon you'll see them type such sound bites as "it's a zero sum fallacy", "you've clearly never heard of the principal-agent problem", "deng xaiopeng is a genius but he's not a communist dictator" and "adam smith nailed it" etc. .... but you won't get any truth or reality .... just the world according to their ideological polit-o-nomic dogma | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels."It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite. And that's just the base argument as far as resources go. It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will. And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed. You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better. Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way. | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him. Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up The Tories do not mention it either They do it though Stephen hawkins is pretty disabled but still contributes a lot to society, I think thats all that is expected of people, I personally know someone who is in a wheel chair being paralysed from the chest down but still does a more than full time and physical job. I fully support giving people help but they need to help themselves also " Very true | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
save your breath dude .... they don't have answers ... they don't think their own thoughts ... they just regurgitate economic papers they've read at some russell group place .... their entire raison d'etre is to argue a point .... soon you'll see them type such sound bites as "it's a zero sum fallacy", "you've clearly never heard of the principal-agent problem", "deng xaiopeng is a genius but he's not a communist dictator" and "adam smith nailed it" etc. .... but you won't get any truth or reality .... just the world according to their ideological polit-o-nomic dogma "I agree.. but we're talking simple stuff now.. the basics lol.. I've not got that far yet myself.. still learning... I'll probably be back on here next week singing capitalist praises | |||
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"Who wrote this rubbish,Lous Carrol it is a big as fantasy as Alice in Wonderland. We live on planet earth not in a dream world,Corbyn is more likely to start a nuclear war than Trump. The problem we won't be able to hold him to account as we will all be dead,we will e wiped out while he wants to chat at the UN,he is an arshole to be polite about him. Well it does have one thing going for it. There's no mention of persecuting the heavily disabled in it. Not like the rotten shit cameron ids an osbourne cooked up The Tories do not mention it either They do it though Stephen hawkins is pretty disabled but still contributes a lot to society, I think thats all that is expected of people, I personally know someone who is in a wheel chair being paralysed from the chest down but still does a more than full time and physical job. I fully support giving people help but they need to help themselves also Very true" Wow... that's a lot of fear wrapped up in one post.. I missed all of that. And you didn't mention islamic terror once. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way."Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
save your breath dude .... they don't have answers ... they don't think their own thoughts ... they just regurgitate economic papers they've read at some russell group place .... their entire raison d'etre is to argue a point .... soon you'll see them type such sound bites as "it's a zero sum fallacy", "you've clearly never heard of the principal-agent problem", "deng xaiopeng is a genius but he's not a communist dictator" and "adam smith nailed it" etc. .... but you won't get any truth or reality .... just the world according to their ideological polit-o-nomic dogma "Sorry the university of life didn't teach you what all those things mean but its not my fault you're too dumb to follow the conversation. Try a kiss, fuck, avoid thread - it would be more your kind of thing | |||
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| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
save your breath dude .... they don't have answers ... they don't think their own thoughts ... they just regurgitate economic papers they've read at some russell group place .... their entire raison d'etre is to argue a point .... soon you'll see them type such sound bites as "it's a zero sum fallacy", "you've clearly never heard of the principal-agent problem", "deng xaiopeng is a genius but he's not a communist dictator" and "adam smith nailed it" etc. .... but you won't get any truth or reality .... just the world according to their ideological polit-o-nomic dogma
Sorry the university of life didn't teach you what all those things mean but its not my fault you're too dumb to follow the conversation. Try a kiss, fuck, avoid thread - it would be more your kind of thing"so you do still love me ... your arguments are still idealistic and thoeretical donkey wank with no basis in real life though .... give us a kiss  | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way.
Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic. "Just throwing the question back at me doesn't work. Your system is flawed.. but youre so determined and stubborn you can't admit it. You say theyre real issues.. ok, so I'm partially right. So I'll agree to stop saying capitalism is dead.. for the time being. So you can stop getting angry and finally defend Capitalisms flaws and how it'll fix those flaws.. Will you? Please. Water is getting used up though isn't it? The machines we invent drink as much of it as we do. If we're so much more productive than socialism.. then we're sucking up much more of it at a quicker rate.. by your own argument. We've grown quicker.. we use more of it. Water sources are being diverted from people outside the system.. to people inside the system. That's fact. We're not using the resources we have in the most efficient way are we.. you're throwing untruths at me now. If we were there'd be laws on how much innovation you're allowed before you're allowed to release the next iPhone. Laws that require you to give your old one back. Stricter recycling. The system only deals with a problem when the majority of the more important people in the system who have a voice in the system are pissed off enough that they demand change. At the moment, thats middle class white voters. Black lives matter, doesn't matter in America. That's one example. Oh sorry I'm confounding again.. sorry.. Too many problems for you to defend in one go.. But what happens when you're not in that bubble anymore because it's shrunk? It's too late then.. you'll have paid the price for ignoring the issue. Will you become the tree hugger then? I embrace the term because it's a badge of honour.. and I put it on first so people can't use it as an insult.. for the record. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way.
Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic.
Just throwing the question back at me doesn't work. Your system is flawed.. but youre so determined and stubborn you can't admit it. You say theyre real issues.. ok, so I'm partially right.
So I'll agree to stop saying capitalism is dead.. for the time being. So you can stop getting angry and finally defend Capitalisms flaws and how it'll fix those flaws.. Will you? Please.
Water is getting used up though isn't it? The machines we invent drink as much of it as we do. If we're so much more productive than socialism.. then we're sucking up much more of it at a quicker rate.. by your own argument. We've grown quicker.. we use more of it. Water sources are being diverted from people outside the system.. to people inside the system. That's fact.
We're not using the resources we have in the most efficient way are we.. you're throwing untruths at me now. If we were there'd be laws on how much innovation you're allowed before you're allowed to release the next iPhone. Laws that require you to give your old one back. Stricter recycling.
The system only deals with a problem when the majority of the more important people in the system who have a voice in the system are pissed off enough that they demand change. At the moment, thats middle class white voters. Black lives matter, doesn't matter in America. That's one example. Oh sorry I'm confounding again.. sorry.. Too many problems for you to defend in one go..
But what happens when you're not in that bubble anymore because it's shrunk? It's too late then.. you'll have paid the price for ignoring the issue.
Will you become the tree hugger then? I embrace the term because it's a badge of honour.. and I put it on first so people can't use it as an insult.. for the record."I'm bored.. I'm out. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way.
Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic.
Just throwing the question back at me doesn't work. Your system is flawed.. but youre so determined and stubborn you can't admit it. You say theyre real issues.. ok, so I'm partially right.
So I'll agree to stop saying capitalism is dead.. for the time being. So you can stop getting angry and finally defend Capitalisms flaws and how it'll fix those flaws.. Will you? Please.
Water is getting used up though isn't it? The machines we invent drink as much of it as we do. If we're so much more productive than socialism.. then we're sucking up much more of it at a quicker rate.. by your own argument. We've grown quicker.. we use more of it. Water sources are being diverted from people outside the system.. to people inside the system. That's fact.
We're not using the resources we have in the most efficient way are we.. you're throwing untruths at me now. If we were there'd be laws on how much innovation you're allowed before you're allowed to release the next iPhone. Laws that require you to give your old one back. Stricter recycling.
The system only deals with a problem when the majority of the more important people in the system who have a voice in the system are pissed off enough that they demand change. At the moment, thats middle class white voters. Black lives matter, doesn't matter in America. That's one example. Oh sorry I'm confounding again.. sorry.. Too many problems for you to defend in one go..
But what happens when you're not in that bubble anymore because it's shrunk? It's too late then.. you'll have paid the price for ignoring the issue.
Will you become the tree hugger then? I embrace the term because it's a badge of honour.. and I put it on first so people can't use it as an insult.. for the record.
I'm bored.. I'm out."you shoul've folded when i warned you .... you could've got a couple of pints in up the wyche before closing | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way.
Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic.
Just throwing the question back at me doesn't work. Your system is flawed.. but youre so determined and stubborn you can't admit it. You say theyre real issues.. ok, so I'm partially right.
So I'll agree to stop saying capitalism is dead.. for the time being. So you can stop getting angry and finally defend Capitalisms flaws and how it'll fix those flaws.. Will you? Please.
Water is getting used up though isn't it? The machines we invent drink as much of it as we do. If we're so much more productive than socialism.. then we're sucking up much more of it at a quicker rate.. by your own argument. We've grown quicker.. we use more of it. Water sources are being diverted from people outside the system.. to people inside the system. That's fact.
We're not using the resources we have in the most efficient way are we.. you're throwing untruths at me now. If we were there'd be laws on how much innovation you're allowed before you're allowed to release the next iPhone. Laws that require you to give your old one back. Stricter recycling.
The system only deals with a problem when the majority of the more important people in the system who have a voice in the system are pissed off enough that they demand change. At the moment, thats middle class white voters. Black lives matter, doesn't matter in America. That's one example. Oh sorry I'm confounding again.. sorry.. Too many problems for you to defend in one go..
But what happens when you're not in that bubble anymore because it's shrunk? It's too late then.. you'll have paid the price for ignoring the issue.
Will you become the tree hugger then? I embrace the term because it's a badge of honour.. and I put it on first so people can't use it as an insult.. for the record.
I'm bored.. I'm out.
you shoul've folded when i warned you .... you could've got a couple of pints in up the wyche before closing "I'm not quitting, I'm just bored.. it's like banging my head against a brick wall. You use logic and reason to point out problems.. fatal problems. Global fatal problems. Avoid using words like love and spirituality.. to speak on your opposition's level using their own discourse. Propose alternatives whilst admitting they may not be the end answer.. but it's a road to some truth at least. But the other side just doggedly plod on blindly repeating the same old mantras to reinforce their own delusions. At the end of the day.. the system does work.. till you're outside the system. Then you're fucked. None of the systems supporters seem to realise that bubble gets smaller, the bigger the system gets. The bigger it gets, the faster and more brutal the fall will be. I've had enough for one night. But I'll never fold. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way.
Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic.
Just throwing the question back at me doesn't work. Your system is flawed.. but youre so determined and stubborn you can't admit it. You say theyre real issues.. ok, so I'm partially right.
So I'll agree to stop saying capitalism is dead.. for the time being. So you can stop getting angry and finally defend Capitalisms flaws and how it'll fix those flaws.. Will you? Please.
Water is getting used up though isn't it? The machines we invent drink as much of it as we do. If we're so much more productive than socialism.. then we're sucking up much more of it at a quicker rate.. by your own argument. We've grown quicker.. we use more of it. Water sources are being diverted from people outside the system.. to people inside the system. That's fact.
We're not using the resources we have in the most efficient way are we.. you're throwing untruths at me now. If we were there'd be laws on how much innovation you're allowed before you're allowed to release the next iPhone. Laws that require you to give your old one back. Stricter recycling.
The system only deals with a problem when the majority of the more important people in the system who have a voice in the system are pissed off enough that they demand change. At the moment, thats middle class white voters. Black lives matter, doesn't matter in America. That's one example. Oh sorry I'm confounding again.. sorry.. Too many problems for you to defend in one go..
But what happens when you're not in that bubble anymore because it's shrunk? It's too late then.. you'll have paid the price for ignoring the issue.
Will you become the tree hugger then? I embrace the term because it's a badge of honour.. and I put it on first so people can't use it as an insult.. for the record.
I'm bored.. I'm out.
you shoul've folded when i warned you .... you could've got a couple of pints in up the wyche before closing
I'm not quitting, I'm just bored.. it's like banging my head against a brick wall.
You use logic and reason to point out problems.. fatal problems. Global fatal problems. Avoid using words like love and spirituality.. to speak on your opposition's level using their own discourse.
Propose alternatives whilst admitting they may not be the end answer.. but it's a road to some truth at least. But the other side just doggedly plod on blindly repeating the same old mantras to reinforce their own delusions.
At the end of the day.. the system does work.. till you're outside the system. Then you're fucked. None of the systems supporters seem to realise that bubble gets smaller, the bigger the system gets. The bigger it gets, the faster and more brutal the fall will be.
I've had enough for one night. But I'll never fold.
"good man | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
save your breath dude .... they don't have answers ... they don't think their own thoughts ... they just regurgitate economic papers they've read at some russell group place .... their entire raison d'etre is to argue a point .... soon you'll see them type such sound bites as "it's a zero sum fallacy", "you've clearly never heard of the principal-agent problem", "deng xaiopeng is a genius but he's not a communist dictator" and "adam smith nailed it" etc. .... but you won't get any truth or reality .... just the world according to their ideological polit-o-nomic dogma
Sorry the university of life didn't teach you what all those things mean but its not my fault you're too dumb to follow the conversation. Try a kiss, fuck, avoid thread - it would be more your kind of thing
so you do still love me ... your arguments are still idealistic and thoeretical donkey wank with no basis in real life though .... give us a kiss "That's because you haven't understood them. There are only ~175 posts per thread so i can't explain the agent-principle problem every single thread otherwise it'll take 1/3 of the thread each time. Real idealism and theoretical nonsense is thinking the answers to complex problems are as simple as switching ownership between the private and public sector. The agent principle problem is that the management of any organisation are able to manipulate resources for their own objectives rather than achieving what the principle (i.e. shareholders or taxpayers) objectives are. Watch a few panaorama documentaries to see the agent-principle problem alive and kicking in the public sector. There was a great one in schools where the headmaster was desperate to pass on OFSTED inspection to hit their targets (rather than actually just deliver a good education which is what taxpayers want). So he arranged a bullshit school trip on the day of inspection for the 30 worse behaved students, then had the worst teachers supervise the trip. He then hired in the best supply teachers he knew for the day and managed the inspection like a north korean parade. The easiest example in the private sector is banking, what year do you think RBS made it's best profits ever? Yup 2007, again they manipulated a rotton corpse of a company to make it look profitable to get one more year of bonuses before it went pop. So refering the agent-principle problem is a quick way of saying that problems as complex as these can't simply be solved by flipping ownership between public and private ownership since both suffer from the agent-principle problem, just in different ways. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? So you you see how capitalism is parasitic within closed system with an expanding population and since when has greed created sustainability.Entropy its a bitch.
Because capitalism humans are the only humans who are greedy No all ideological positions today are greedy.The capitalist one is more effective .It'll devour itself quickest. The capitalists only option is depopulation as you stated yourself .You see the flaw in the direction we are going.
Good job the birthrate in all developed countries is below 2 then?
Of course communism already devoured itself and fudalism isn't the fashion anymore so I'd say capitalism is doing pretty well
You're happy to attack but when we point out the flaws in the current system you just shrug and take the piss.. or say communism died first.. feudalism was crap.. So it's better than nothing.
Yes you're right.. Soviet false communism died out.. well done. You're right.. So did everything else before it.. well done. No one is arguing that point.. congratulations.
But as my friend points out...
Endless consumption and growth.. on a finite planet, with finite resources is impossible. So there is a massive flaw and it's rearing its ugly head in the form of climate change right now.. one small manifestation. It's already shown it doesn't solve many smaller problems we currently suffer with it acts as a force that creates them.
Next comes automation.
If we manage both those major things well.. we still have the issue of finite space and resources.
What do we do then? Get rid of some of the people? Even as a throw away joke comment.. It's pretty sick. Who'd you choose. Who is the lowest class of human we can get rid of? How do you judge? What if you're on that category?
Instead of attacking us for simply pointing out the obvious to you.. and trying to help us all by suggesting alternatives. Why don't you stop to think for a second.. go do some research of your own.. look up entropy.. listen to some people better educated than us. Who have authority on the subject and start to work with us.. looking for alternative ideas.. We're not saying what we suggest is perfect.. but the bike is breaking.. let's work together to get a new bike, build a new bike.. or make a fucking SPACESHIIIIP!
Because you keep conflating issues. Capitalism is simply the everlasting quest for better producitivity which comes from knowledge. It doesn't fundamentally need fossil fuels, money or to oppress the poor. Fossil fuels are just part of how the current system operates, you don't need to change the system to get rid of fossil fuels.
It's not about fossil fuels. It's about taking a limited amount of stuff.. be that fossil fuels, metals, minerals, water, food, space, THE PLANET! And treating it as though it were infinite.
And that's just the base argument as far as resources go.
It's not even touching on what it's doing to us worker bees, or the slaves on the periphery of the system. Or the ecosystems of other species. At it's core.. capitalism is a monster.. that's destroying everything it touches.. bar the ever diminishing few at the top. The ultimate pyramid scam if you will.
And don't confuse that with conspiracy theory. Forget the word ever existed.
You can't say everything is fine when its not, not when the evidence is screaming at you to stop for a second and think about what you're doing. Yes we have progressed at an alarming rate under capitalism. If you define progression "is having lots of stuff" and being "comfy". Our comfort and stuff comes at a horrific price though. You cant deny that. So think what we can do better.
Stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the problems aren't real. Hold it up high.. and keep an eye on what's coming.. So you can jump out the way.
Get a grip, capitalism doesn't use any more water than communism or any other system. Capitalism is still the best system because it's about using the limited resources we have in the most efficient way. The problem of finitie resources is proportional to the population not a problem specific to capitalism. You seem to take a real issue then conflate it into "and that's why we need to get rid of capitalism" and then shout at anyone who spots the gaping gap in the logic.
Just throwing the question back at me doesn't work. Your system is flawed.. but youre so determined and stubborn you can't admit it. You say theyre real issues.. ok, so I'm partially right.
So I'll agree to stop saying capitalism is dead.. for the time being. So you can stop getting angry and finally defend Capitalisms flaws and how it'll fix those flaws.. Will you? Please.
Water is getting used up though isn't it? The machines we invent drink as much of it as we do. If we're so much more productive than socialism.. then we're sucking up much more of it at a quicker rate.. by your own argument. We've grown quicker.. we use more of it. Water sources are being diverted from people outside the system.. to people inside the system. That's fact.
We're not using the resources we have in the most efficient way are we.. you're throwing untruths at me now. If we were there'd be laws on how much innovation you're allowed before you're allowed to release the next iPhone. Laws that require you to give your old one back. Stricter recycling.
The system only deals with a problem when the majority of the more important people in the system who have a voice in the system are pissed off enough that they demand change. At the moment, thats middle class white voters. Black lives matter, doesn't matter in America. That's one example. Oh sorry I'm confounding again.. sorry.. Too many problems for you to defend in one go..
But what happens when you're not in that bubble anymore because it's shrunk? It's too late then.. you'll have paid the price for ignoring the issue.
Will you become the tree hugger then? I embrace the term because it's a badge of honour.. and I put it on first so people can't use it as an insult.. for the record."No we don't need laws on innovation! The market does that for us and it does it better than the gosplan. You're basically falling victim to a massive agent princple problem described above. Capitalism is just worst system other than all the others that have been tried. The problems the world faces; global warming, over-population, scarce resources are not theorerically difficult to solve at all, everyone knows the solution is just isn't palatable and it's extemely difficult to exexute multilateral coordination in a world where the number of sovereign states keeps expanding. | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole "No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill. | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole
No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill. "It's false havecsern theese quotes before | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole
No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill. "you're shit at maths then | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole
No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill.
It's false havecsern theese quotes before "Its all bullshit and a shit pub by the looks of it. | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole
No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill.
It's false havecsern theese quotes before Its all bullshit and a shit pub by the looks of it. "spoons | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole
No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill.
It's false havecsern theese quotes before Its all bullshit and a shit pub by the looks of it. "That pile of ridiculousness doesn't address why the first four men can't afford a drink in any of the situations. Or why the 5, 6 and 7 are getting less than 8 and 9 and why 10 has more than everyone. 10 owns the company given to him by his ancestors.. 9 takes responsibility but passes the buck onto 8 who manages 7s sales teams.. whilst 5 and 6 do all the hard work.. and poor old 4 3 2 and 1 have been let down by the system. Twist that load of crap any way you like.. | |||
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"if man 10, 9 and 8 fucked off to the wine bar where they belonged, the other 7 guys would get enjoy their ale without anyone whinging in their ear'ole
No they wouldn't because they wouldn't be able to pay the bill.
It's false havecsern theese quotes before Its all bullshit and a shit pub by the looks of it.
That pile of ridiculousness doesn't address why the first four men can't afford a drink in any of the situations.
Or why the 5, 6 and 7 are getting less than 8 and 9 and why 10 has more than everyone.
10 owns the company given to him by his ancestors.. 9 takes responsibility but passes the buck onto 8 who manages 7s sales teams.. whilst 5 and 6 do all the hard work.. and poor old 4 3 2 and 1 have been let down by the system.
Twist that load of crap any way you like..
"dude ... it's simpler to acknowledge that if it's intended to represent uk tax as it is, then it is mathematically incorrect | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol." Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding away | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding away" That is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol." It's stage managed nonsense, all those people are fully paid up far left Labour/momentum Corbyn cult supporters. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too." Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. It's stage managed nonsense, all those people are fully paid up far left Labour/momentum Corbyn cult supporters. " If your message is "let's keep spending and don't worry where it comes from" it's never going to be hard to find poor people who are keen to spend other peoples money. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too." ... | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?" No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook." She's taking the fight to Labour...best get used to it | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too." It does seem that labour has been harnessing the power of the meme on social media .The Tories are invisible.Maybe their target audience aren't online yet.. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook." Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ???? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?" Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????" It is the main one that counts more. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more." And what's your prediction for that shag? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too.It does seem that labour has been harnessing the power of the meme on social media .The Tories are invisible.Maybe their target audience aren't online yet.. "That is right and labour got a bigger following on social media, it is the big debate now on itv | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? " I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u?" Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. " Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. " I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling | |||
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"The worst odds you can get on a Conservative win is 1/25. Best odds for Labour is 20/1" If corbyn puts a £2.5bn bet on himself to win then he'll actually be able to pay for all his election pledges - problem solved? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling " Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know." So how much are you throwing down on Corbyn / Tony Benn v2? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know." Leicester city to win the title... | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know.Leicester city to win the title... "Actually 1 in 20 years an underdog does 'come out of nowhere' and win the premiership. Blackburn did it before leicester. Whereas Corbyns policies were already tried in 1983 and what's the definition of insanity? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know. So how much are you throwing down on Corbyn / Tony Benn v2? " Not sure yet, maibe 50 or so, will you? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know. So how much are you throwing down on Corbyn / Tony Benn v2? Not sure yet, maibe 50 or so, will you?" I'll pass on the opportunity but you can rub my nose in it if you are right. I was wrong about brexit so who knows... | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook. Just remind me again what happened during the local elections, how many seats did the labour party gain ????It is the main one that counts more. And what's your prediction for that shag? I reckon it will be a twist and either labour or lib dem might get it, u? Don't forget to put a £500 on it then, 14-1 odds of labour win. I won't be voting conservative but i think they will get a bigger majority. Yes and those are good odds too, it will be a interesting election. I think the odds accurately represent the probability, but that's the beauty of markets, if you disagree and you are right then you get the ching ching bling bling Yes catchinggggg, the markets changes all the time as the time gets closer to the date, so you never know. So how much are you throwing down on Corbyn / Tony Benn v2? Not sure yet, maibe 50 or so, will you? I'll pass on the opportunity but you can rub my nose in it if you are right. I was wrong about brexit so who knows... " Yes and we can never be sure what will happen, we will know in a few weeks time. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad" Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared?No I dont, but she wasnt voted in by the people, she is not as popular, not sure corbyn would add her on facebook." Theresa May is miles more popular than Jeremy Corbyn, just look at all the opinion polls, Theresa May's personal rating is streets ahead of Corbyn. Even allowing for a large margin of error within those polls Theresa May still easily wins. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. " How many dimension do you have? If it's about insults and avoiding the question she wins. But Corbyn has been going on about social care for a long time and she's but an half arsed policy to battle it. Name a Tory pledge that you support and Why? | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. How many dimension do you have? If it's about insults and avoiding the question she wins. But Corbyn has been going on about social care for a long time and she's but an half arsed policy to battle it. Name a Tory pledge that you support and Why?" I agree with Theresa May's plan for Brexit, when I voted Leave in the EU referendum I voted to Leave the EU, Leave the single market and leave the customs union, leaving the European Court of Justice and ending the EU free movement of people into Britain. Leave means leave and that means fully leaving everything. The Conservatives plan for Brexit is a proper Brexit not the half baked, half arsed, half in/half out Brexit policy Corbyn and the labour party seem to want. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. How many dimension do you have? If it's about insults and avoiding the question she wins. But Corbyn has been going on about social care for a long time and she's but an half arsed policy to battle it. Name a Tory pledge that you support and Why? I agree with Theresa May's plan for Brexit, when I voted Leave in the EU referendum I voted to Leave the EU, Leave the single market and leave the customs union, leaving the European Court of Justice and ending the EU free movement of people into Britain. Leave means leave and that means fully leaving everything. The Conservatives plan for Brexit is a proper Brexit not the half baked, half arsed, half in/half out Brexit policy Corbyn and the labour party seem to want. " What is a good brexit deal? To me it May be different to you. Since we are all unique. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. " Are you for real? All May can do is get on her high horse and dish out insults as answers and avoid the issue at hand. Pmqs wasn't made to be a debate in the first place, hence the word 'questions' in the title so I have no idea what you're rambling on about anyway? chum | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. Are you for real? All May can do is get on her high horse and dish out insults as answers and avoid the issue at hand. Pmqs wasn't made to be a debate in the first place, hence the word 'questions' in the title so I have no idea what you're rambling on about anyway? chum" I'd agree with the above.. to someone who thinks belittling your opponent at any given chance is a good tactic.. May look like she's tearing him a new arseholes. But Corbyn isn't like most politicians and hasn't been lowered himself to her level. To someone who may not appreciate the significance of this shift - it may appear weak.. but I see it as the opposite. I forgive people who do.. because we're so used to the other way.. it seems the right way to do things. | |||
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"Wherever corbyn goes, he draws in the crowd like the premier league and may gets a bus full lol. Damn right. He's making a fool out of may. He even called her out for a debate on a Facebook live video and she still hiding awayThat is right, he is way above her and on facebook too. Labour launch their manifesto in Bradford, staunch Labour country. Conservatives launch their manifesto in Halifax...Labour territory. Do you honestly think that Mrs May is running scared? Damn right. If she debates with corbyn she's going to get her arse handed to her and she knows it. It's not Cameron we're on about here, she's got the personality of a flip flop and her politics is just as bad Theresa May has been debating Corbyn every Wednesday lunch time at Prime ministers questions in the house of commons for the past 12 months. She routinely hands Corbyn's arse to him on a plate and 9 times of of 10 she is the clear winner at PMQ's. Are you for real? All May can do is get on her high horse and dish out insults as answers and avoid the issue at hand. Pmqs wasn't made to be a debate in the first place, hence the word 'questions' in the title so I have no idea what you're rambling on about anyway? chum I'd agree with the above.. to someone who thinks belittling your opponent at any given chance is a good tactic.. May look like she's tearing him a new arseholes. But Corbyn isn't like most politicians and hasn't been lowered himself to her level. To someone who may not appreciate the significance of this shift - it may appear weak.. but I see it as the opposite. I forgive people who do.. because we're so used to the other way.. it seems the right way to do things." Wow.. turned up to work this morning and all the drivers who voted UKIP before - who've been a dead very on Conservatives since. Are now blasting Conservative and praising Labour. Apparently he came across very well on Jeremy Vine - which I missed. They also hate Conservatives manifesto. | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. " Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. " You forgot Diane Abbott. | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. You forgot Diane Abbott. "or Gove | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. You forgot Diane Abbott. or Gove "At least gove sent his child to a state school unlike dianne or jeremey. | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. You forgot Diane Abbott. or Gove
At least gove sent his child to a state school unlike dianne or jeremey. "i noted Gove because he was incompetent as the next person who cant answer with facts and numbers in an interview. he was totally clueless and got all his numbers wrong | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. You forgot Diane Abbott. or Gove
At least gove sent his child to a state school unlike dianne or jeremey. "And Gove was on the winning side of the EU referendum taking a leading role in the vote Leave campaign. | |||
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"Labour still look like a really divided party. They were already divided over Brexit and now you have people like Emily Thonberry saying Trident could be scrapped if Labour win and we all know Corbyn also wants to get rid of trident. Then on the other hand you have it in the Labour manifesto that Trident will be kept. The Shadow Labour defence secretary has had to come out and publically challenge Emily Thornberry's comments by saying it's her job to talk about defence policy and Trident would stay. The most important thing is the security of the nation and on this it just seems like Labour are all over the place and at odds with each other. Divided parties don't win elections. Emily Thornberry is greatest counter arguement to women only shortlists you could ask for. Incompetent in so many different ways. You forgot Diane Abbott. or Gove
At least gove sent his child to a state school unlike dianne or jeremey. i noted Gove because he was incompetent as the next person who cant answer with facts and numbers in an interview.
he was totally clueless and got all his numbers wrong"Yup but an incompetent hypocrite still trumps an incompetent politician | |||
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"I must have been listening to a different Jeremy Vine show "There was nothing not to like about him on JV. He was asked questions and actually answered them. JV did press him a bit and he remained calm and explained clearly what he meant, instead of swerving the questions. People seemed to like him on the phone-in, apart from one weirdo who was banging on about JCs rose bushes or something mildly incomprihensible. | |||
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" Endless economic growth and production on a finite planet with finite resources is a fantasy.Capitalism suffers from entropy and entropy rules the universe guys.You're gonna need a bigger planet.
Or less people on it? "Less consumers? That wouldn't suit capital at all. | |||
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