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"It is the right of every US citizen to be shot. There are lots of people with lots of guns all itching to 'get some!' and the NRA get to play politics and wield lots of power ensuring that this will not change any time soon. On a slightly different note... The hostage taker must have been white, if he were black and unarmed he would have been shot multiple times and died of his injuries. "BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !  | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood ! "I agree with what you say up to a point... However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white. Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country? | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?"Black men are more likely to be shot , because they represent a disproportional percentage of offenders ! Just consider gang culture as an example! In some of those cases the officers shooting were black themselves ! There is a race card being played here , but lets not fall for that ! Besides .... police over reach has nothing to do with being armed or not !  | |||
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"Black men are more likely to be shot , because they represent a disproportional percentage of offenders !" True, more reported crime is committed by Black Americans than White Americans in relationship to % of population. However to every authoritative study black Americans are over twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime as white Americans, black Americans are over twice as likely to be prosecuted for the same crime as white Americans, and more than twice as likely to be imprisoned for the same crime as white Americans. If you can be bothered reading this Harvard Study https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3226952/Sampson_RacialEthnicDisparities.pdf?sequence=2 you will note that the figures used come from US police and DoJ. "Just consider gang culture as an example!" I would not deny that there are real problems in the black ghettos (sorry projects). But the truth is black Americans suffer systemic racism in every part of US life. "In some of those cases the officers shooting were black themselves !" Yep, nothing surprising in black police police being even bigger bastards than their white colleagues. Remember that if you want to spot the queer in the closet look at the biggest loudest gay haters first. Same rule applies to all forms of prejudice and bigotry. "There is a race card being played here , but lets not fall for that !" Yep, fully agree, and your playing it. The idea that its black Americans faults that an institutionally racist police are institutionally racist has to be right up there with the 'if it happened it had to be the Jews fault that the Nazi's murdered 6000000 of them' bullshit! "Besides .... police over reach has nothing to do with being armed or not ! "Really? Have you never heard of mission creep? Just look at Tasers... First they were called non-lethal, now less lethal. When first issued in 2007 they were issued to specially trained firearms officers, and since then the number of times they are used climbs every year (as does the death toll) and it is admitted that in the majority of cases they are used on the mentally ill. Now there are calls for all officers to be issued tasers, how do you think that will work out if given approval? Fact is you give a person a weapon and unless they are in constant training when they need to use the weapon they will panic and either freeze or loose control and start using it indiscriminately. Also as soon as you arm the police with firearms you have started to militarise them. There is a hint about just this in the military being called armed services the world over. | |||
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"find I need to go through this point by point Tony... Black men are more likely to be shot , because they represent a disproportional percentage of offenders ! True, more reported crime is committed by Black Americans than White Americans in relationship to % of population. However to every authoritative study black Americans are over twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime as white Americans, black Americans are over twice as likely to be prosecuted for the same crime as white Americans, and more than twice as likely to be imprisoned for the same crime as white Americans. If you can be bothered reading this Harvard Study https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3226952/Sampson_RacialEthnicDisparities.pdf?sequence=2 you will note that the figures used come from US police and DoJ. Just consider gang culture as an example! I would not deny that there are real problems in the black ghettos (sorry projects). But the truth is black Americans suffer systemic racism in every part of US life. In some of those cases the officers shooting were black themselves ! Yep, nothing surprising in black police police being even bigger bastards than their white colleagues. Remember that if you want to spot the queer in the closet look at the biggest loudest gay haters first. Same rule applies to all forms of prejudice and bigotry. There is a race card being played here , but lets not fall for that ! Yep, fully agree, and your playing it. The idea that its black Americans faults that an institutionally racist police are institutionally racist has to be right up there with the 'if it happened it had to be the Jews fault that the Nazi's murdered 6000000 of them' bullshit! Besides .... police over reach has nothing to do with being armed or not !
Really? Have you never heard of mission creep? Just look at Tasers...
First they were called non-lethal, now less lethal. When first issued in 2007 they were issued to specially trained firearms officers, and since then the number of times they are used climbs every year (as does the death toll) and it is admitted that in the majority of cases they are used on the mentally ill. Now there are calls for all officers to be issued tasers, how do you think that will work out if given approval?
Fact is you give a person a weapon and unless they are in constant training when they need to use the weapon they will panic and either freeze or loose control and start using it indiscriminately. Also as soon as you arm the police with firearms you have started to militarise them. There is a hint about just this in the military being called armed services the world over."If that was true , then it would be a problem with the rest of the world`s civilian police forces the are equipped with firearms ! Fact is... it isn't! And remember , British police are amongst the few civilised countries in the world where the majority of the police does not carry firearms ! So are you implying that somehow, due to this tradition, (bad), British police are less responsible and capable of like the rest of their European counterparts carry firearms? Are there any incidents you know of in Europe where police have a record of misuse of firearms in the last decades? 
Unfortunately the misuse or excessive use of Tasers is a sign of a badly trained police force , specially in regards to their mental attitude !
The problem lies in the fact they misuse them because its a "non lethal" weapon so they are lazy, and mentally conditioned to think its ok, because its not lethal..... 
I very much doubt they would act in the same way with a firearm !
While a firearm can be lethal it doesn't have to be, and is a much stronger deterrent and force multiplier.
So , unless you think British police are, as I mentioned before inferior to their European colleagues, your argument doesn't hold water! | |||
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"If a suspect kicks off and will not sit down on the ground and do what he is told he is more likely to get shot. How many times do you see the person getting stopped not complying and then back chatting the police? they are usually the ones who later complain that they got man handled. And that goes for black and white!" This is true, however it is not so much the backchat that causes problems it is the language used. We all have a perfect right to tell any official that we think they are being unreasonable and overstepping both their duty and powers. Unfortunately most use foul language and swear at police which is a public order offence in itself, and that is why they find themselves being manhandled into a van, cell and eventually into a court. | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?
Black men are more likely to be shot , because they represent a disproportional percentage of offenders !
Just consider gang culture as an example!
In some of those cases the officers shooting were black themselves !
There is a race card being played here , but lets not fall for
that !
Besides .... police over reach has nothing to do with being armed or not ! "if you free 5 men from slavery give theme nothing no money no house no benefit and then turn around and make being a vagrant a crime don't you think those 5 men are far more like to end up in prison that 5 normal men who grow up in loving homes and the support of their families? If youre quote facts then make sure you read the full history Jim crow laws was around in the 1960s we are talking almost 20 years after ww2 | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?". I agree with you but i dont think its racism perse, if i was a cop sent out to a black neighbourhood in the USA where theres already 6 gun murders a week.. Well i think its human nature to have a overly itchy trigger finger. Same as this white community building, when you expect the worse you tend to react as your brains imagining it and so you get overacting to the actual situation. The best way would be for America to have far less guns and far more gun laws and then to de militarize the US police | |||
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"But most times if you just comply from the start and just answer a couple of questions , show ID if you have it your on you're way in minuets. Start mouthing off and it just makes things more difficult. Yes there will always be the one time when it does not go as planned but most times it does. Telling the police that you have done nothing wrong so you don't need to stop just means more of a holdup " Right, but that is a very slippery slope to go down. The whole 'if you've done nothing wrong, what's the problem?' is problematic as there then ends up creeping scope and powers. Do you think it was right how that guy in Bristol was hassled by the police a few weeks back? They randomly stopped him as he looked like the suspect and demanded to see his ID. Due to issues with Police abuse in the past he refused. He got a taser in the face. Ironically, he was a police community race relations liaison or whatever they call it. -Matt | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?"I was about to ask the same. Considering after the Westminster attack Tony was all for all police being armed (despite them not wanting to be). Sweden have routinely armed Police, did that stop the latest truck attack? No. US citizens are very often armed and call for more guns thinking that offers more protection. Did that stop the latest school shooting yesterday in San Bernadino? No. Guns are not the answer. -Matt | |||
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"But most times if you just comply from the start and just answer a couple of questions , show ID if you have it your on you're way in minuets. Start mouthing off and it just makes things more difficult. Yes there will always be the one time when it does not go as planned but most times it does. Telling the police that you have done nothing wrong so you don't need to stop just means more of a holdup Right, but that is a very slippery slope to go down. The whole 'if you've done nothing wrong, what's the problem?' is problematic as there then ends up creeping scope and powers. Do you think it was right how that guy in Bristol was hassled by the police a few weeks back? They randomly stopped him as he looked like the suspect and demanded to see his ID. Due to issues with Police abuse in the past he refused. He got a taser in the face. Ironically, he was a police community race relations liaison or whatever they call it. -Matt" It he had his ID on him  So all he had to do was show it, by instead decsided to challenge them the police expecting them to just let him walk on.
Now if he had been the man they were looking for them everyone would have blamed them for not checking him out proporely. Catch 22 | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?
I was about to ask the same. Considering after the Westminster attack Tony was all for all police being armed (despite them not wanting to be).
Sweden have routinely armed Police, did that stop the latest truck attack? No. US citizens are very often armed and call for more guns thinking that offers more protection. Did that stop the latest school shooting yesterday in San Bernadino? No.
Guns are not the answer.
-Matt"They accused him of being someone else. They antagonised him, got in his face and attempted to force their way into his property. Then tasered him. So you think that is justifiable force? Sadly too many people do It was passed on to the IPCC to look into.
-Matt | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?
I was about to ask the same. Considering after the Westminster attack Tony was all for all police being armed (despite them not wanting to be).
Sweden have routinely armed Police, did that stop the latest truck attack? No. US citizens are very often armed and call for more guns thinking that offers more protection. Did that stop the latest school shooting yesterday in San Bernadino? No.
Guns are not the answer.
-Matt
They accused him of being someone else. They antagonised him, got in his face and attempted to force their way into his property. Then tasered him. So you think that is justifiable force? Sadly too many people do It was passed on to the IPCC to look into.
-Matt"No they started out by asking him to prove he was who he said he was and he did have ID on him at the time. He refused and then after being asked again got arsey with them and it escelated into something more. They thought he resembled someone who they were looking for so that's why they stopped him. He would not stop and was walking away from them to get into his place and would not stop. If he had just produced his ID it would have been a simple matter but n. If they had been looking for someone who was 6' and white they would never have stopped him would they ? | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?
I was about to ask the same. Considering after the Westminster attack Tony was all for all police being armed (despite them not wanting to be).
Sweden have routinely armed Police, did that stop the latest truck attack? No. US citizens are very often armed and call for more guns thinking that offers more protection. Did that stop the latest school shooting yesterday in San Bernadino? No.
Guns are not the answer.
-Matt"Where did I ever say guns were the answer? Guns , in some cases are not the answer, or the solution for that matter! But in some situations they can be part part of the answer and solution , a point proven by what ended the Westminster attack ! 
Also to be clear ; all Swedish police are all armed ! Its the second time your refer to Swedish police being"routinely armed" ! don't see the point of the word "routinely" !
Any police person that refuses to carry a firearm , should have no place on street duty ! If..... anything , they should perform office duty , but anybody can do that , so i am not sure they deserve to be classed as a policeman/woman! | |||
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"By way of an update to the story that happened yesterday... The guys ex had left the building and he was on his own locked into a property. Eight city police cars, four cars from the Sheriffs office and the six vehicles that carried the SWAT team all descended on the community. All neighbors were removed and the Police decided to assault the building with concussion grenades and tear gas. As a result of the assault the property caught fire and quickly spread to adjacent units. By the time fire fighters had it under control, 16 properties were completely destroyed and another 4 made uninhabitable by smoke damage. The unarmed guy (yes he was black) was led away in handcuffs within moments of the assault starting and witnesses say that the Police were tossing geenades through the back windows as he walked out the front door. The Police allege that the man they have in custody started the fire deliberately, but he is not being charged with arson. His Attorney expects him to be released without charge tomorrow (today). What a way to Police in the community. " Again ! this is what happens when you see too many Hollywood BS , and militarise police ! Its likely that it was some of the grenades used that started the fire , hence they not charging him with arson !  | |||
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"BS! Will you know better then that ! This is what happens when you militarise a civilian police force ! And..... reality starts copying Hollywood !
I agree with what you say up to a point...
However there is a growing body of evidence that includes admissions by senior US police officers that if a suspect is black they are much more likely to be shot by police than if they are white.
Also seeing as this is your view why are you a supporter of arming all police in this country?
Black men are more likely to be shot , because they represent a disproportional percentage of offenders !
Just consider gang culture as an example!
In some of those cases the officers shooting were black themselves !
There is a race card being played here , but lets not fall for
that !
Besides .... police over reach has nothing to do with being armed or not ! if you free 5 men from slavery give theme nothing no money no house no benefit and then turn around and make being a vagrant a crime don't you think those 5 men are far more like to end up in prison that 5 normal men who grow up in loving homes and the support of their families? If youre quote facts then make sure you read the full history Jim crow laws was around in the 1960s we are talking almost 20 years after ww2 "I am well aware of that , but we are referring to the present , not the past ! But since you are referring to Jim crow laws, I expect you are aware that gun control movement was started largely to prevent black Americans from having guns ! | |||
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