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"No surprise there, he's already associated with a bus that takes everyone to the edge of a precipice." Many actors proclaimed their pro-remain stance, normally from their luxury homes in Los Angeles and Beverly Hills! At least "Gonville Bromhead" lives in.the UK  | |||
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"He says he'd rather be a poor master than a rich servant. So even he (with his vast actual wealth) admits we are going to be poorer." No, he's just saying what he'd rather be. How about you? | |||
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"He says he'd rather be a poor master than a rich servant. So even he (with his vast actual wealth) admits we are going to be poorer." Well he wont .... his bank balance will never be in the red. | |||
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"Rich partner, which is what we were." Well now we can be richer. What kind of an organisgation keeps a 'partner' in poverty? | |||
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"Rich partner, which is what we were. Well now we can be richer. What kind of an organisgation keeps a 'partner' in poverty?" The vast majority of economists estimate the EU has made a huge positive difference to our prosperity, even the pro brexit economists generally admit that. | |||
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"Rich partner, which is what we were. Well now we can be richer. What kind of an organisgation keeps a 'partner' in poverty? The vast majority of economists estimate the EU has made a huge positive difference to our prosperity, even the pro brexit economists generally admit that. " Economists and estimates...mmmm 
But I meant other 'partners' that are now poor | |||
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"He says he'd rather be a poor master than a rich servant. So even he (with his vast actual wealth) admits we are going to be poorer. No, he's just saying what he'd rather be. How about you?" It's a silly metaphor as we have in no meaningful way been a 'servant' of the EU | |||
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Economists are not good at forecasting the future, but then it is a complex business, with many interacting factors, a bit like forecasting the weather, which is why long term weather forecasts and economic forecasts are very difficult.
However Economists are very good at analyzing the past. It's a question of, I know you hate these things, but fact. Analysing the past is what we are talking about. It's not really up for dispute. Even Ruth Lea won't go further than describing the bloc’s economic impact as “fairly negligible”. They really don't think it has been a bad thing up to now.
That is is different to going forward, where there is much more controversy, because of the problems in the eurozone and lack of growth. There is still a large majority who think coming out of the EU will be worse economically for us, rather than better, but this is the future and there is a legitimate argument on both sides.
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"Yes, I know you like to pretend that you voted for brexit because you were thinking of others.
Economists are not good at forecasting the future, but then it is a complex business, with many interacting factors, a bit like forecasting the weather, which is why long term weather forecasts and economic forecasts are very difficult.
However Economists are very good at analyzing the past. It's a question of, I know you hate these things, but fact. Analysing the past is what we are talking about. It's not really up for dispute. Even Ruth Lea won't go further than describing the bloc’s economic impact as “fairly negligible”. They really don't think it has been a bad thing up to now.
That is is different to going forward, where there is much more controversy, because of the problems in the eurozone and lack of growth. There is still a large majority who think coming out of the EU will be worse economically for us, rather than better, but this is the future and there is a legitimate argument on both sides.
"I did vote Brexit because I was thinking of others, my young son in the UK, my friends in Spain and my family in Italy. I'm a bit too old to give a fuck about it for myself, I don't imagine it will affect me either way. For the people abroad I just hope that at least the UK referendum has made the EU realise it is time to change and be more accountable to the people or die. And as for economists analyzing the past, well, they can still only guess what would have happened had we chosen another path | |||
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"Yes, I know you like to pretend that you voted for brexit because you were thinking of others.
Economists are not good at forecasting the future, but then it is a complex business, with many interacting factors, a bit like forecasting the weather, which is why long term weather forecasts and economic forecasts are very difficult.
However Economists are very good at analyzing the past. It's a question of, I know you hate these things, but fact. Analysing the past is what we are talking about. It's not really up for dispute. Even Ruth Lea won't go further than describing the bloc’s economic impact as “fairly negligible”. They really don't think it has been a bad thing up to now.
That is is different to going forward, where there is much more controversy, because of the problems in the eurozone and lack of growth. There is still a large majority who think coming out of the EU will be worse economically for us, rather than better, but this is the future and there is a legitimate argument on both sides.
I did vote Brexit because I was thinking of others, my young son in the UK, my friends in Spain and my family in Italy. I'm a bit too old to give a fuck about it for myself, I don't imagine it will affect me either way. For the people abroad I just hope that at least the UK referendum has made the EU realise it is time to change and be more accountable to the people or die.
And as for economists analyzing the past, well, they can still only guess what would have happened had we chosen another path"They can, but when they do that, looking at other at the time similarly performing economies outside the EU and not tied to any other trading bloc they tend to come out believing that our economy would have performed somewhere between New Zealand and Argentina's. We've done pretty well. So it has been a good decision to join the EU when we did and to stay in as long as we did, with some ups and downs admittedly. Only time will tell if it will be a good idea to leave. What I can say is the fucking reasoning has been offensively flawed, either way. As for your young son, he is potentially now being denied all sorts of opportunities in europe for study and if he is scientifically minded. If the EU do go through with their floated idea for a scheme to allow UK citizens to voluntarily contribute to in order to retain some sort of membership and the rights we had, as Guy Verhofstadt wants, then you shouldn't because that will make you a cheeky cunt. However for your son, I very much think and hope you would. | |||
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"Yes, I know you like to pretend that you voted for brexit because you were thinking of others.
Economists are not good at forecasting the future, but then it is a complex business, with many interacting factors, a bit like forecasting the weather, which is why long term weather forecasts and economic forecasts are very difficult.
However Economists are very good at analyzing the past. It's a question of, I know you hate these things, but fact. Analysing the past is what we are talking about. It's not really up for dispute. Even Ruth Lea won't go further than describing the bloc’s economic impact as “fairly negligible”. They really don't think it has been a bad thing up to now.
That is is different to going forward, where there is much more controversy, because of the problems in the eurozone and lack of growth. There is still a large majority who think coming out of the EU will be worse economically for us, rather than better, but this is the future and there is a legitimate argument on both sides.
"Hmmm. Now what did that "expert" from the Bank of England say? Oh yes, that's the one. Our prediction of the impact of Brexit on the economy was "our Michael Fish moment"  | |||
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"There are many reasons why Greece is in the mess it is; they nearly all are the fault of the Greeks themselves not the EU. " Sorry, I forgot.... EU member countries that are failing has nothing to do with the EU, but if a member country is doing well it is entirely because they are in the EU. Silly me.... Tell us though, if "nearly all" of their problems are of their own making, which of Greece's problems are down to the EU? | |||
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"There are many reasons why Greece is in the mess it is; they nearly all are the fault of the Greeks themselves not the EU. Sorry, I forgot.... EU member countries that are failing has nothing to do with the EU, but if a member country is doing well it is entirely because they are in the EU. Silly me.... Tell us though, if "nearly all" of their problems are of their own making, which of Greece's problems are down to the EU?" Anybody? | |||
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"1. The austerity measures being imposed are unrealistic. The EU and the IMF are jointly at fault for this, though it is the Greeks themselves who are responsible for being in the shit, not the EU. 2. They should not be part of the eurozone. " Who should? | |||
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"Possibly no-one. Possibly everyone bar Germany. However it seems to be working for many of those in the euro." Who is it not working for? | |||
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"Possibly no-one. Possibly everyone bar Germany. However it seems to be working for many of those in the euro." No it doesn't. The answer should be no-one. Probably the biggest policy the EU have introduced has been a disaster and the only way they can control Eurozone fiscal policy is by creating human misery. The sooner it is scrapped the better | |||
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"I have no problem with scrapping the euro, splitting the euro into a northern and southern euro or going the other way and trying for even tighter convergence with eurobonds and tasking the ECB with taking unemployment into account, inflation, interest rates etc. Or even imposing some sort of taxation on some goods to make them more expensive in one country but cheaper in others. The thing is, throughout all of your arguments against the EU, you've really been arguing against the Euro. If the question in the referendum had been should we join the Euro, I'd have been on your side to say no. If we'd been in the Euro I'd have been voting to leave the Euro but not the EU. If a condition of leaving the Euro had been we must also leave the EU then that would have been a much more difficult decision, but I'd probably have been a brexiter. But it wasn't. We aren't in the Euro. We get a rebate to counter the ludicrous CAP. So brexit is fucking stupid and hard brexit even more so. " Personally I think you are stupid full stop | |||
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"Possibly no-one. Possibly everyone bar Germany. However it seems to be working for many of those in the euro. Who is it not working for?" Still waiting for your answer. | |||
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"Why? " Just a gut feeling from reading your posts and your a remoaner  | |||
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"Are you kidding? You want me to go through all of the countries in the euro, analyse their economies in all aspects, evaluate how they are doing and then attribute how much the euro among no doubt many factors is the key? Why don't you tell me who it is working for and who it isn't. I'll give you Greece though. " It was you that said it was "working for many", thereby implying that you believe it's not working for some..... As such, you must surely have an opinion on who it is and isn't working for, maybe even have done the analysis and evaluation yourself .... I thought it was a perfectly reasonable question to ask. | |||
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"Fair enough. To a greater or lesser degree Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland. " What about some of the Eastern bloc countries? A lot of the people there feel that they have been let down by the EU, exploited as cheap labour and were financially better off under communism | |||
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"Fair enough. To a greater or lesser degree Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland. " The Euro is, arguably, the flagship project of the EU. A project that is designed to deliver one of the key aims of the EU- 'Economic Union'. A third of EU members either have economies not robust enough to use it, or do not want it. Of the 19 countries in the Euro, it is failing 5 of them. That's over a quarter. However, looking at population, there are 340 Million in the Eurozone, about 160 Million of which are in the 5 countries that you say the Euro is failing in. So the Euro is failing nearly half of the people that use it. So out of the 510 Million population of the EU, 330 Million either don't want it, don't qualify for it, or have it and it is failing them. That's two thirds of the EU population. So, 50% of the countries of the EU do not have the Euro, or the Euro has failed them. And those countries have nearly two thirds of the EU population. I'll leave it to you to analyse the GDP of that 50% of countries in relation to the other 14 countries in the Eurozone. But that sounds like one hell of an unsuccessful project to me. | |||
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"I'm happy to accept the euro is a problem and either needs scrapping or needs major reform, but the euro is not the EU and there are so many good things about the EU that we are nuts to leave. Much better to stay and take a much bigger role in shaping it. The euro and the CAP need major reform. But you know what, it's crises that shape things, the EU isn't going anywhere despite what you lot have been promising for about 8 years now. It will sort itself out slowly. But even with its problems it is still the benchmark that other nations want to join or emulate. In any case, we won't be leaving. You can see the way the government is now talking that the direction is even if we come out we will have insignificantly more control over immigration and legislation, the trade deals will be shitter and we will still have to pay. We told you all this. " ....When are you going to get it into your head that the EU will never reform...this is why we are leaving and this is why other nations will leave and why the EU Will eventually collapse....can you not see that support for the EU is dwindling not growing As for you thinking we are not going to be leaving.  | |||
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