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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth" 100 % | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth" Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt | |||
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"Why focus on either? We could have good quality Further and Higher Education, Plus good quality Apprenticeship based training for those that favour that route or where it is more applicable to the profession?" 
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt" Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time." You don't qualify as a 'manual labourer' at the end of an apprenticeship. You come out at the end with a trade, a skill, something that has been learned, and practiced over a number of years.... To have served an apprenticeship at one time was likened to have undertaken a 'practical' degree....in fact a full apprenticeship often takes longer than many degrees to complete. The term, and undertaking of, an apprenticeship, has been gradually eroded by successive governments over the last 30 or 40 years. And frankly its not helped by people that think someone who has served an apprenticeship is little more than a manual labourer. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. You don't qualify as a 'manual labourer' at the end of an apprenticeship. You come out at the end with a trade, a skill, something that has been learned, and practiced over a number of years.... To have served an apprenticeship at one time was likened to have undertaken a 'practical' degree....in fact a full apprenticeship often takes longer than many degrees to complete. The term, and undertaking of, an apprenticeship, has been gradually eroded by successive governments over the last 30 or 40 years. And frankly its not helped by people that think someone who has served an apprenticeship is little more than a manual labourer. " . Ive got a mate whos a mechanical engineer,Hes had visas to work and live in. The USA, Australia, Canada, Japan, China, Brazil and new Zealand. He could literally pick and choose which country he wants to live and work in  | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society." Indeed. I am a part of the 'STEM Ambassador' programme and as such I volunteer to go into schools and try and inspire kids to get into Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.... well at least Technology, which is my area of expertise. What always strikes me is I am usually the only small business there. I'm normally surrounded by Rolls Royce, National Rail, The Army, BAE, etc. i have run my own business for about 15 years and am currently a freelance software developer and through with have travelled the world and spoken at conferences in a dozen countries. The world I work in is global. I am currently employed by a client in California, and hire/manage a team of staff spread across Baltimore, Bristol, Edinburgh, Florence, Vienna, Tallinn, Berlin and Novi Sad. They too are all contractors. This is why I see nationalism as a sad thing. All these people I work with value different cultures, and people. They work in cross-country, cross-cultural, cross-language teams. The woman in Edinburgh, an immigrant from Greece. The guy in Berlin an immigrant from Italy. The guy in Vienna, an immigrant from Germany. The Canadian, who lives in Barcelona, and employed by an Italian company for my US client... Yes, I have a degree, but beyond that everything is self taught and working in a global community which is very much like apprenticeships (indeed, the last company I ran won an award from the National Skills Council for the work we did taking on apprentices). The field I work in moves so fast you are *always* learning. There is always someone who knows more than you, there is always someone who knows less. You always have the opportunity to learn, and you always have the opportunity to teach someone something. So get out there. Learn something. Travel beyond your borders. Have fun! -Matt | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society. Indeed. I am a part of the 'STEM Ambassador' programme and as such I volunteer to go into schools and try and inspire kids to get into Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.... well at least Technology, which is my area of expertise. What always strikes me is I am usually the only small business there. I'm normally surrounded by Rolls Royce, National Rail, The Army, BAE, etc. i have run my own business for about 15 years and am currently a freelance software developer and through with have travelled the world and spoken at conferences in a dozen countries. The world I work in is global. I am currently employed by a client in California, and hire/manage a team of staff spread across Baltimore, Bristol, Edinburgh, Florence, Vienna, Tallinn, Berlin and Novi Sad. They too are all contractors. This is why I see nationalism as a sad thing. All these people I work with value different cultures, and people. They work in cross-country, cross-cultural, cross-language teams. The woman in Edinburgh, an immigrant from Greece. The guy in Berlin an immigrant from Italy. The guy in Vienna, an immigrant from Germany. The Canadian, who lives in Barcelona, and employed by an Italian company for my US client... Yes, I have a degree, but beyond that everything is self taught and working in a global community which is very much like apprenticeships (indeed, the last company I ran won an award from the National Skills Council for the work we did taking on apprentices). The field I work in moves so fast you are *always* learning. There is always someone who knows more than you, there is always someone who knows less. You always have the opportunity to learn, and you always have the opportunity to teach someone something. So get out there. Learn something. Travel beyond your borders. Have fun! -Matt" Great post. I've suggested to my kids that (STEM)is the area to focus their education on for a career that will definitely exist in 20 years.. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt" Internships are just a free filtering process for high end employers And yeah your right modern apprenticeships cover the whole range of subjects and matters. Jaguar and JCB have run their own academies and apprenticeships for some time, so are to be commended for this But it is the present government which has brought in the apprentice levy on larger businesses Truthfully I think that we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics, and labour are to blame for the huge skills shortage in all sectors of the UK economy | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time." I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society. Indeed. I am a part of the 'STEM Ambassador' programme and as such I volunteer to go into schools and try and inspire kids to get into Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.... well at least Technology, which is my area of expertise. What always strikes me is I am usually the only small business there. I'm normally surrounded by Rolls Royce, National Rail, The Army, BAE, etc. i have run my own business for about 15 years and am currently a freelance software developer and through with have travelled the world and spoken at conferences in a dozen countries. The world I work in is global. I am currently employed by a client in California, and hire/manage a team of staff spread across Baltimore, Bristol, Edinburgh, Florence, Vienna, Tallinn, Berlin and Novi Sad. They too are all contractors. This is why I see nationalism as a sad thing. All these people I work with value different cultures, and people. They work in cross-country, cross-cultural, cross-language teams. The woman in Edinburgh, an immigrant from Greece. The guy in Berlin an immigrant from Italy. The guy in Vienna, an immigrant from Germany. The Canadian, who lives in Barcelona, and employed by an Italian company for my US client... Yes, I have a degree, but beyond that everything is self taught and working in a global community which is very much like apprenticeships (indeed, the last company I ran won an award from the National Skills Council for the work we did taking on apprentices). The field I work in moves so fast you are *always* learning. There is always someone who knows more than you, there is always someone who knows less. You always have the opportunity to learn, and you always have the opportunity to teach someone something. So get out there. Learn something. Travel beyond your borders. Have fun! -MattGreat post. I've suggested to my kids that (STEM)is the area to focus their education on for a career that will definitely exist in 20 years.. "STEM is key in this modern world, I have voluntered on a few occasions promoting and delivering STEM subjects to school aged kids | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society. Indeed. I am a part of the 'STEM Ambassador' programme and as such I volunteer to go into schools and try and inspire kids to get into Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.... well at least Technology, which is my area of expertise. What always strikes me is I am usually the only small business there. I'm normally surrounded by Rolls Royce, National Rail, The Army, BAE, etc. i have run my own business for about 15 years and am currently a freelance software developer and through with have travelled the world and spoken at conferences in a dozen countries. The world I work in is global. I am currently employed by a client in California, and hire/manage a team of staff spread across Baltimore, Bristol, Edinburgh, Florence, Vienna, Tallinn, Berlin and Novi Sad. They too are all contractors. This is why I see nationalism as a sad thing. All these people I work with value different cultures, and people. They work in cross-country, cross-cultural, cross-language teams. The woman in Edinburgh, an immigrant from Greece. The guy in Berlin an immigrant from Italy. The guy in Vienna, an immigrant from Germany. The Canadian, who lives in Barcelona, and employed by an Italian company for my US client... Yes, I have a degree, but beyond that everything is self taught and working in a global community which is very much like apprenticeships (indeed, the last company I ran won an award from the National Skills Council for the work we did taking on apprentices). The field I work in moves so fast you are *always* learning. There is always someone who knows more than you, there is always someone who knows less. You always have the opportunity to learn, and you always have the opportunity to teach someone something. So get out there. Learn something. Travel beyond your borders. Have fun! -Matt" Wow Matt I must have had a knock to my head as I am fully in agreement with you ... | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. You don't qualify as a 'manual labourer' at the end of an apprenticeship. You come out at the end with a trade, a skill, something that has been learned, and practiced over a number of years.... To have served an apprenticeship at one time was likened to have undertaken a 'practical' degree....in fact a full apprenticeship often takes longer than many degrees to complete. The term, and undertaking of, an apprenticeship, has been gradually eroded by successive governments over the last 30 or 40 years. And frankly its not helped by people that think someone who has served an apprenticeship is little more than a manual labourer. " I totally agree with you, as a young Gas engineer I was looked down on by many, who viewed it as a poor mans qualification. It took me 3 hard years to qualify, you either passed got a credit or distinction or failed I then spent at least another 3 years improving. But to be honest it has given me a fabulous life | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society." | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society. Indeed. I am a part of the 'STEM Ambassador' programme and as such I volunteer to go into schools and try and inspire kids to get into Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.... well at least Technology, which is my area of expertise. What always strikes me is I am usually the only small business there. I'm normally surrounded by Rolls Royce, National Rail, The Army, BAE, etc. i have run my own business for about 15 years and am currently a freelance software developer and through with have travelled the world and spoken at conferences in a dozen countries. The world I work in is global. I am currently employed by a client in California, and hire/manage a team of staff spread across Baltimore, Bristol, Edinburgh, Florence, Vienna, Tallinn, Berlin and Novi Sad. They too are all contractors. This is why I see nationalism as a sad thing. All these people I work with value different cultures, and people. They work in cross-country, cross-cultural, cross-language teams. The woman in Edinburgh, an immigrant from Greece. The guy in Berlin an immigrant from Italy. The guy in Vienna, an immigrant from Germany. The Canadian, who lives in Barcelona, and employed by an Italian company for my US client... Yes, I have a degree, but beyond that everything is self taught and working in a global community which is very much like apprenticeships (indeed, the last company I ran won an award from the National Skills Council for the work we did taking on apprentices). The field I work in moves so fast you are *always* learning. There is always someone who knows more than you, there is always someone who knows less. You always have the opportunity to learn, and you always have the opportunity to teach someone something. So get out there. Learn something. Travel beyond your borders. Have fun! -Matt Wow Matt I must have had a knock to my head as I am fully in agreement with you ..." Bloody hell. You sure you're ok? Here, let me buy you a pint to help settle you. -Matt | |||
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"OP, I would suggest that it unhealthy to concentrate on any single type of training at the cost of others, or to reduce training in any field as a cost cutting exercise. It inevitably leads to labour and skills shortages in future years. Unfortunately, given the nature of politics and politicians long-term strategic planning will always be sacrificed for an immediate or short term gain (PPI being the perfect example). " Well we certainly ignored the skills shortage in the engineering and construction sector for far too long Unfortunately the perfect solution or plan does not actually exist or is unlikely to actually be feasible | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society. Indeed. I am a part of the 'STEM Ambassador' programme and as such I volunteer to go into schools and try and inspire kids to get into Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths.... well at least Technology, which is my area of expertise. What always strikes me is I am usually the only small business there. I'm normally surrounded by Rolls Royce, National Rail, The Army, BAE, etc. i have run my own business for about 15 years and am currently a freelance software developer and through with have travelled the world and spoken at conferences in a dozen countries. The world I work in is global. I am currently employed by a client in California, and hire/manage a team of staff spread across Baltimore, Bristol, Edinburgh, Florence, Vienna, Tallinn, Berlin and Novi Sad. They too are all contractors. This is why I see nationalism as a sad thing. All these people I work with value different cultures, and people. They work in cross-country, cross-cultural, cross-language teams. The woman in Edinburgh, an immigrant from Greece. The guy in Berlin an immigrant from Italy. The guy in Vienna, an immigrant from Germany. The Canadian, who lives in Barcelona, and employed by an Italian company for my US client... Yes, I have a degree, but beyond that everything is self taught and working in a global community which is very much like apprenticeships (indeed, the last company I ran won an award from the National Skills Council for the work we did taking on apprentices). The field I work in moves so fast you are *always* learning. There is always someone who knows more than you, there is always someone who knows less. You always have the opportunity to learn, and you always have the opportunity to teach someone something. So get out there. Learn something. Travel beyond your borders. Have fun! -Matt Wow Matt I must have had a knock to my head as I am fully in agreement with you ... Bloody hell. You sure you're ok? Here, let me buy you a pint to help settle you. -Matt" I would much sooner have a bombardino, or an aperol spritz | |||
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"OP, I would suggest that it unhealthy to concentrate on any single type of training at the cost of others, or to reduce training in any field as a cost cutting exercise. It inevitably leads to labour and skills shortages in future years. Unfortunately, given the nature of politics and politicians long-term strategic planning will always be sacrificed for an immediate or short term gain (PPI being the perfect example). Well we certainly ignored the skills shortage in the engineering and construction sector for far too long Unfortunately the perfect solution or plan does not actually exist or is unlikely to actually be feasible " The trouble is that kids get educated at school (obviously) by people who seem to these days believe that acamdemic qualifications and desk based jobs are superior and skill based jobs are viewed as second class and the kids seem to believe that working with your hands is too much like hard work and beneath them | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again" Not the social housing sector?  | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector? "What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want, | |||
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"OP, I would suggest that it unhealthy to concentrate on any single type of training at the cost of others, or to reduce training in any field as a cost cutting exercise. It inevitably leads to labour and skills shortages in future years. Unfortunately, given the nature of politics and politicians long-term strategic planning will always be sacrificed for an immediate or short term gain (PPI being the perfect example). Well we certainly ignored the skills shortage in the engineering and construction sector for far too long Unfortunately the perfect solution or plan does not actually exist or is unlikely to actually be feasible The trouble is that kids get educated at school (obviously) by people who seem to these days believe that acamdemic qualifications and desk based jobs are superior and skill based jobs are viewed as second class and the kids seem to believe that working with your hands is too much like hard work and beneath them" Got to be honest I am fully impressed with my latest batch of apprentices, quite diverse as a group, but they are all trying really hard and want to succeed, funnily enough non of them are employed but a RSL | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want, "It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy  | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy "You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up"What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA? | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?"I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert" well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert"Just to pull you up on this. Pride has got fuck all to do with it. Or you can dispute that with my 24 year old son who lost his sight at 18 and is unable to work now even if he wanted to. He is now facing cuts to his benefits as a result of the latest Tory cutbacks. The lastest one he is fight with? Due to his boyfriend working over 20 hours a week he is now trying even more cut. -Matt | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
Just to pull you up on this. Pride has got fuck all to do with it. Or you can dispute that with my 24 year old son who lost his sight at 18 and is unable to work now even if he wanted to. He is now facing cuts to his benefits as a result of the latest Tory cutbacks. The lastest one he is fight with? Due to his boyfriend working over 20 hours a week he is now trying even more cut.
-Matt"Fair play to you on that one, but fortunately I'm not disabled and haven't had the unfortunate need to claim due to a disability, but I'm sure we can agree that there are plenty of unworthy claimants. And if person is capable of working, they should be working. Of course some peeps live in high unemployment areas, might be lacking skills etc, but again if a person is capable of taking a job, and one is available that matches their personal skill sets they should take it or have their benefits removed | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe."But you only think you do,I,m going to try a different tack with you.Do you both have a job,have youboth paid into the system.Is your partner of foreign descent,are you married ? That will do for starters,if you refuse to answer any question,which you have a right to,I will no longer debate any topic with you except to pull you up every time you post bullshit | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe.But you only think you do,I,m going to try a different tack with you.Do you both have a job,have youboth paid into the system.Is your partner of foreign descent,are you married ? That will do for starters,if you refuse to answer any question,which you have a right to,I will no longer debate any topic with you except to pull you up every time you post bullshit "There are quite a few people who think that I know more than your average Joe about benefits 
yes yes yes yes | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe.But you only think you do,I,m going to try a different tack with you.Do you both have a job,have youboth paid into the system.Is your partner of foreign descent,are you married ? That will do for starters,if you refuse to answer any question,which you have a right to,I will no longer debate any topic with you except to pull you up every time you post bullshit "Remember CLCC only demands answers from others, his life is too private to ever divulge to others in the forum. I mean you have to be very very careful, when operate in the shadows of the secret service How dare you ask him to answer any questions posed at him, that's just not fair now is it!... lol | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
Just to pull you up on this. Pride has got fuck all to do with it. Or you can dispute that with my 24 year old son who lost his sight at 18 and is unable to work now even if he wanted to. He is now facing cuts to his benefits as a result of the latest Tory cutbacks. The lastest one he is fight with? Due to his boyfriend working over 20 hours a week he is now trying even more cut.
-Matt
Fair play to you on that one, but fortunately I'm not disabled and haven't had the unfortunate need to claim due to a disability, but I'm sure we can agree that there are plenty of unworthy claimants. And if person is capable of working, they should be working. Of course some peeps live in high unemployment areas, might be lacking skills etc, but again if a person is capable of taking a job, and one is available that matches their personal skill sets they should take it or have their benefits removed"We all know some choose benefits as a lifestyle choice over a minimum wage job.However i am wary of those whos desire to punish them is strong. | |||
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"Is this thread about apprentices or stalking another poster and dragging up topics from other threads?" Definitely first and foremost for me it's about apprentices, as I believe our young have been neglected by the skills sector and job market for too long a time | |||
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"Is this thread about apprentices or stalking another poster and dragging up topics from other threads?" Its about firemen, hence the title. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
Just to pull you up on this. Pride has got fuck all to do with it. Or you can dispute that with my 24 year old son who lost his sight at 18 and is unable to work now even if he wanted to. He is now facing cuts to his benefits as a result of the latest Tory cutbacks. The lastest one he is fight with? Due to his boyfriend working over 20 hours a week he is now trying even more cut.
-Matt
Fair play to you on that one, but fortunately I'm not disabled and haven't had the unfortunate need to claim due to a disability, but I'm sure we can agree that there are plenty of unworthy claimants. And if person is capable of working, they should be working. Of course some peeps live in high unemployment areas, might be lacking skills etc, but again if a person is capable of taking a job, and one is available that matches their personal skill sets they should take it or have their benefits removedWe all know some choose benefits as a lifestyle choice over a minimum wage job.However i am wary of those whos desire to punish them is strong."I would be happy to have system in place that retrains and reskills some of these peeps so they can have fulfilling career. If they choose to not get involved and fail to turn up for training. Then there benefits should be stopped until such time that they do get involved and train or accept a job at level suitable to their skill set | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
Just to pull you up on this. Pride has got fuck all to do with it. Or you can dispute that with my 24 year old son who lost his sight at 18 and is unable to work now even if he wanted to. He is now facing cuts to his benefits as a result of the latest Tory cutbacks. The lastest one he is fight with? Due to his boyfriend working over 20 hours a week he is now trying even more cut.
-Matt
Fair play to you on that one, but fortunately I'm not disabled and haven't had the unfortunate need to claim due to a disability, but I'm sure we can agree that there are plenty of unworthy claimants. And if person is capable of working, they should be working. Of course some peeps live in high unemployment areas, might be lacking skills etc, but again if a person is capable of taking a job, and one is available that matches their personal skill sets they should take it or have their benefits removedWe all know some choose benefits as a lifestyle choice over a minimum wage job.However i am wary of those whos desire to punish them is strong."It should not be possible to exist on benefits as a lifestyle choice, it's wrong and we should be strong enough to ensure it's not a possibility | |||
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Hand bags at dawn. . | |||
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"I think we should leave them to it they're trolling each other in many ways not al subtle.Get on with it gentleman .Get it out of your system. Hand bags at dawn. ."pity, because there had been some useful discussion prior to that. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe.But you only think you do,I,m going to try a different tack with you.Do you both have a job,have youboth paid into the system.Is your partner of foreign descent,are you married ? That will do for starters,if you refuse to answer any question,which you have a right to,I will no longer debate any topic with you except to pull you up every time you post bullshit
There are quite a few people who think that I know more than your average Joe about benefits
yes yes yes yes"Who are these people,are they ones you have helped ? | |||
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"I think we should leave them to it they're trolling each other in many ways not al subtle.Get on with it gentleman .Get it out of your system. Hand bags at dawn. ."You are next bobitup | |||
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.
I am a big fan of ensuring the new generation have the right skills. I know many friends who went to higher education but got nothing out of it. I seen very smart people with dyslexia who dropped out of school at 13 and is still fighting the dream to get a degree. When they could have become very skilled in their natural talents instead of trying to get something because of pride or pressure.
The system is flawed. Higher education is not the answer for everyone. I mentioned it before, I wonder if the education system can be adapted depending on the demands of the national economy or work force. Varied in a way to ensure work happiness. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Internships are just a free filtering process for high end employers And yeah your right modern apprenticeships cover the whole range of subjects and matters. Jaguar and JCB have run their own academies and apprenticeships for some time, so are to be commended for this But it is the present government which has brought in the apprentice levy on larger businesses Truthfully I think that we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics, and labour are to blame for the huge skills shortage in all sectors of the UK economy" With respect, how do you square the huge reduction in finding for skills over the last 7 years with blaming labour for the demise of skills? | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Internships are just a free filtering process for high end employers And yeah your right modern apprenticeships cover the whole range of subjects and matters. Jaguar and JCB have run their own academies and apprenticeships for some time, so are to be commended for this But it is the present government which has brought in the apprentice levy on larger businesses Truthfully I think that we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics, and labour are to blame for the huge skills shortage in all sectors of the UK economy With respect, how do you square the huge reduction in finding for skills over the last 7 years with blaming labour for the demise of skills? " Funding not finding | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Internships are just a free filtering process for high end employers And yeah your right modern apprenticeships cover the whole range of subjects and matters. Jaguar and JCB have run their own academies and apprenticeships for some time, so are to be commended for this But it is the present government which has brought in the apprentice levy on larger businesses Truthfully I think that we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics, and labour are to blame for the huge skills shortage in all sectors of the UK economy With respect, how do you square the huge reduction in finding for skills over the last 7 years with blaming labour for the demise of skills? Funding not finding" During the Blair years the focus was nearly always on the right that every working class kid should have the opertunity to attend university. Apprenticeships were looked on as being old school, something that kept you down as individual. This was perpetuated by the education system it self, I.E. school teachers and universities that needed ever more bums on seats. We imported building skills from Europe instead of having the foresight to train our own, and give U.K. Based youngsters the chance of a brighter future I'm all for the conservatives initiative of an apprenticeship levy scheme | |||
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"Oh a topic I know a lot about! Whoop! I can post on the politics forum at long last! I work with young people (up to 29 years) who for many many complex reasons including postcode discrimination, poor educational attainment, low aspirations, mental health issues etc (and a lack of pride apparently) are unemployed (or NEET). Upskilling is possible. I'm doing it and supporting young people into those jobs and careers where there is a shortage of skills. ... except my job comes to an end in 15 months because I'm funded by European money (ESF) and unfortunately this administration (despite assurances they will replace European money) have said they won't! So, I won't bother posting. I'll be down the dole office minus my pride (allegedly). " Oh no  sorry to hear it. Maybe you could re-train as a medic, I saw something in the side of a bus about funding for the NHS. Sorry to joke, but alas I think the situation is absurd, and not sure whether to laugh or cry at the sorry state of Brexit right now.
I know someone on here working in a similar field (education) whose department is being replaced. Whilst she does still have a job she is trying to plan projects and funding for a supposed replacement department which doesn't exist yet. Wtf is it with this government and killing/replacing departments and orgnanisations with almost identical ones.
-Matt | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. " I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me" Same here. The first job I got the government (Tory) paid the wages, I think it was for the first 12 months on the proviso that the company sent me to college one day a week. That was in electrical wholesaling but after 3 years I was qualified as an electrician. Not that I've ever used that but the point is the government did something | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me Same here. The first job I got the government (Tory) paid the wages, I think it was for the first 12 months on the proviso that the company sent me to college one day a week. That was in electrical wholesaling but after 3 years I was qualified as an electrician. Not that I've ever used that but the point is the government did something" So you guys got tax payers to fund you, yet have a go at uni students who have to pay their own way?  | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me Same here. The first job I got the government (Tory) paid the wages, I think it was for the first 12 months on the proviso that the company sent me to college one day a week. That was in electrical wholesaling but after 3 years I was qualified as an electrician. Not that I've ever used that but the point is the government did something So you guys got tax payers to fund you, yet have a go at uni students who have to pay their own way? "What? Who's had a go at anybody? The thing is taxpayers were already funding me through the dole. For an investment of another fiver a week or whatever it was they got me off the dole, got me a job and an education and the company benefited too through a period when they were able to train me then kept me in that job. This post was just in reply to yours when you said you had never seen anyone say they had done something because the government did x or y. Ok?  | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me Same here. The first job I got the government (Tory) paid the wages, I think it was for the first 12 months on the proviso that the company sent me to college one day a week. That was in electrical wholesaling but after 3 years I was qualified as an electrician. Not that I've ever used that but the point is the government did something So you guys got tax payers to fund you, yet have a go at uni students who have to pay their own way?
What? Who's had a go at anybody? The thing is taxpayers were already funding me through the dole. For an investment of another fiver a week or whatever it was they got me off the dole, got me a job and an education and the company benefited too through a period when they were able to train me then kept me in that job. This post was just in reply to yours when you said you had never seen anyone say they had done something because the government did x or y. Ok? "CLCC,you really are unbelievable | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me Same here. The first job I got the government (Tory) paid the wages, I think it was for the first 12 months on the proviso that the company sent me to college one day a week. That was in electrical wholesaling but after 3 years I was qualified as an electrician. Not that I've ever used that but the point is the government did something So you guys got tax payers to fund you, yet have a go at uni students who have to pay their own way?
What? Who's had a go at anybody? The thing is taxpayers were already funding me through the dole. For an investment of another fiver a week or whatever it was they got me off the dole, got me a job and an education and the company benefited too through a period when they were able to train me then kept me in that job. This post was just in reply to yours when you said you had never seen anyone say they had done something because the government did x or y. Ok? "Oh dear, it gets worse, you were on the dole?! Have you no pride? How many times have you complained about people on benefits being a drain on society, and yet you yourself were one. You have consistently attacked people who have been to university, including saying that they lack social skills. I have not see you once mention anything positive about a university education, or god forbid, anyone raising to become an expert in their field. | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities...." Enough said | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities...." Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities?" You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Internships are just a free filtering process for high end employers And yeah your right modern apprenticeships cover the whole range of subjects and matters. Jaguar and JCB have run their own academies and apprenticeships for some time, so are to be commended for this But it is the present government which has brought in the apprentice levy on larger businesses Truthfully I think that we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics, and labour are to blame for the huge skills shortage in all sectors of the UK economy With respect, how do you square the huge reduction in finding for skills over the last 7 years with blaming labour for the demise of skills? Funding not finding During the Blair years the focus was nearly always on the right that every working class kid should have the opertunity to attend university. Apprenticeships were looked on as being old school, something that kept you down as individual. This was perpetuated by the education system it self, I.E. school teachers and universities that needed ever more bums on seats. We imported building skills from Europe instead of having the foresight to train our own, and give U.K. Based youngsters the chance of a brighter future I'm all for the conservatives initiative of an apprenticeship levy scheme" I notice you still happily blame Blair whilst ignoring the post 16 funding cuts which have been going on since 2010. This government chose to cut skills funding and chose to rely in imported skills. I know you think you're an expert on this but you really aren't. | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not." Some posts merely parade alternative facts and are penned by self proclaimed experts who frankly know the square root of damn all about the skills and training world. | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not." Well I'm glad we have forum police such as yourself to judge each and every post. Thank you for your service | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Internships are just a free filtering process for high end employers And yeah your right modern apprenticeships cover the whole range of subjects and matters. Jaguar and JCB have run their own academies and apprenticeships for some time, so are to be commended for this But it is the present government which has brought in the apprentice levy on larger businesses Truthfully I think that we should never have got rid of the old polytechnics, and labour are to blame for the huge skills shortage in all sectors of the UK economy With respect, how do you square the huge reduction in finding for skills over the last 7 years with blaming labour for the demise of skills? Funding not finding During the Blair years the focus was nearly always on the right that every working class kid should have the opertunity to attend university. Apprenticeships were looked on as being old school, something that kept you down as individual. This was perpetuated by the education system it self, I.E. school teachers and universities that needed ever more bums on seats. We imported building skills from Europe instead of having the foresight to train our own, and give U.K. Based youngsters the chance of a brighter future I'm all for the conservatives initiative of an apprenticeship levy scheme I notice you still happily blame Blair whilst ignoring the post 16 funding cuts which have been going on since 2010. This government chose to cut skills funding and chose to rely in imported skills. I know you think you're an expert on this but you really aren't." I don't profess to be an expert, but I do have experience | |||
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"I was on the YTS scheme in the 80s.I think i was on £28.50 a week part of which the goverment paid.I went to college 1 day a week and one evening.It worked well for me but some friends at other firms got used as cheap labour and were dropped once the 2 years were up and were replaced by a new group of 16 year olds ." I must admit, I think May of the people on the YTS scheme were exploit d as cheap labour, but as with any scheme there will be winners and losers, unfortunately hind sight is a wonderful too, | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not. Some posts merely parade alternative facts and are penned by self proclaimed experts who frankly know the square root of damn all about the skills and training world." Well if I know dam all about the training world I had better wind up my company which has successfully traded for a number of years, which supports me and my family and for my wife to remain at home, playing miss property developer. I don't know how any of my candidates manage to pass their assessments, and why I have a 99% pass rate. I must be doing something wrong | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not." | |||
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"I have yet to see one person on here say "I did an apprenticeship because the government did X" or "I went to uni because the government did Y". Its up to individuals to decide what's best for them depending on the career that they want to go into. I don't know why it has to be an 'either or' debate though, if we take the Army as an example, plenty of practical, hands on training, but it's also expected that you will have your first degree by the time you reach the rank of Captain, and a second degree by the time you reach the rank of Lt Col. I did a plumbing apprentice ship because it was the first job I was interviewed for,I got the job.The government paid £23.50 and my then boss made it up to £30.00.He then got an extension of another 6 months,I told him I would not work for the same money as I was already helping him earn a lot more than he was paying me,my wages went up pretty quick after that.At 21 I set up my own business,I never had a day off apart from holidays,so it certainly worked out for me" I remember waiting for my wages to be delivered in cash direct to my home on Thursday morning before I went off to college, they were the days £23.50, I thought I was rich lol. Topped up with £14 in pound notes from working 3 nights a week after college in the local chippy. | |||
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"Oh a topic I know a lot about! Whoop! I can post on the politics forum at long last! I work with young people (up to 29 years) who for many many complex reasons including postcode discrimination, poor educational attainment, low aspirations, mental health issues etc (and a lack of pride apparently) are unemployed (or NEET). Upskilling is possible. I'm doing it and supporting young people into those jobs and careers where there is a shortage of skills. ... except my job comes to an end in 15 months because I'm funded by European money (ESF) and unfortunately this administration (despite assurances they will replace European money) have said they won't! So, I won't bother posting. I'll be down the dole office minus my pride (allegedly). " I'm sure your skills Drive and determination will help you find alternative employment. You should go freelance work as an associate register with likes of protocol | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not. Some posts merely parade alternative facts and are penned by self proclaimed experts who frankly know the square root of damn all about the skills and training world. Well if I know dam all about the training world I had better wind up my company which has successfully traded for a number of years, which supports me and my family and for my wife to remain at home, playing miss property developer. I don't know how any of my candidates manage to pass their assessments, and why I have a 99% pass rate. I must be doing something wrong" There's a massive difference between a training company and a company that trains some of its own people. | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not. Some posts merely parade alternative facts and are penned by self proclaimed experts who frankly know the square root of damn all about the skills and training world. Well if I know dam all about the training world I had better wind up my company which has successfully traded for a number of years, which supports me and my family and for my wife to remain at home, playing miss property developer. I don't know how any of my candidates manage to pass their assessments, and why I have a 99% pass rate. I must be doing something wrong There's a massive difference between a training company and a company that trains some of its own people." So you're obviously driving at something, which am I ? | |||
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"Some great, constructive, informative posts by lots of people on here. Including some who normally disagree with each other, who have the strength of character to say they agree with someone who they often disagree with. Unfortunately, not all posters have these qualities.... Which posters do you think are lacking these qualities? You can decide that, by reading the posts. Some are constructive and informative others are not. Some posts merely parade alternative facts and are penned by self proclaimed experts who frankly know the square root of damn all about the skills and training world. Well if I know dam all about the training world I had better wind up my company which has successfully traded for a number of years, which supports me and my family and for my wife to remain at home, playing miss property developer. I don't know how any of my candidates manage to pass their assessments, and why I have a 99% pass rate. I must be doing something wrong There's a massive difference between a training company and a company that trains some of its own people. So you're obviously driving at something, which am I ?" I've no idea what you are but I know what I did for over 30 years, so I feel very qualified to talk about training | |||
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-Matt | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society. "You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles. | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt"Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people"Lol. I love some of the reasoning leavers can invent. That's a bit like saying "you have a blister in your foot from wearing badly fitting shoes for the past 4 years. Rather than invest in some better fitting shoes we are going to amputate your foot. Just think how bad your blisters would have been in the next 4 years if we hadn't amputated your foot!" -Matt | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people
Lol. I love some of the reasoning leavers can invent.
That's a bit like saying "you have a blister in your foot from wearing badly fitting shoes for the past 4 years. Rather than invest in some better fitting shoes we are going to amputate your foot. Just think how bad your blisters would have been in the next 4 years if we hadn't amputated your foot!"
-Matt"The construction industry will need to invest in training up local staff. Getting a Polish guy is a quick fix, but training up lower skilled / unemployed uk workers is surely a good longer term goal? | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people
Lol. I love some of the reasoning leavers can invent.
That's a bit like saying "you have a blister in your foot from wearing badly fitting shoes for the past 4 years. Rather than invest in some better fitting shoes we are going to amputate your foot. Just think how bad your blisters would have been in the next 4 years if we hadn't amputated your foot!"
-Matt"I'll leave others to judge, leavers and remainers, as to who's reasoning is best and who is losing the plot | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt"This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016. IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people
Lol. I love some of the reasoning leavers can invent.
That's a bit like saying "you have a blister in your foot from wearing badly fitting shoes for the past 4 years. Rather than invest in some better fitting shoes we are going to amputate your foot. Just think how bad your blisters would have been in the next 4 years if we hadn't amputated your foot!"
-Matt
The construction industry will need to invest in training up local staff. Getting a Polish guy is a quick fix, but training up lower skilled / unemployed uk workers is surely a good longer term goal?"Yes, that is a much better long term goal. But it has nothing to do with Brexit. This was an issue way before Brexit (as the article says) yet the government clearly has not been addressing it in a way that is working in this example. but as shown above leavers think that Brexit will fix it. Whilst yes it may fix it, it would have been preferable just to fix the blister, not amputate the foot. -Matt | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016.
IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up"Exactly. Regarding this being an issue pre-brexit is what the article says. And "Bringing in foreign labour" is the market responding to the demand of the country. We are not "Bringing" anything in. They are coming here to fill a demand created by the market. The current argument is that we want some kind of control over who we should allow in, which requires the government to understand the market and get it right. If they were capable of doing that, then surely they would be capable of responding to the demand locally in the first place? -Matt | |||
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" The construction industry will need to invest in training up local staff. Getting a Polish guy is a quick fix, but training up lower skilled / unemployed uk workers is surely a good longer term goal? Yes, that is a much better long term goal. But it has nothing to do with Brexit. This was an issue way before Brexit (as the article says) yet the government clearly has not been addressing it in a way that is working in this example. but as shown above leavers think that Brexit will fix it. Whilst yes it may fix it, it would have been preferable just to fix the blister, not amputate the foot. -Matt" Very true. We have failed to invest in education and training for long periods of time. As a nation we have been able to call on external labour as a sticking plaster. Bringing in great people, pre-trained for us, whilst plundering our own training and education budgets. The situation in construction is mirrored in the NHS and elsewhere. In the short term we will probably see difficulties because of short term thinking from successive governments. Now we will be forced to fix root cause problems that have previously been papered over. | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016.
IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up"So how will brexit change "young brits" in your mind? | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016.
IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up
So how will brexit change "young brits" in your mind? "A bit pissed off with the older generations? | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016.
IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up
So how will brexit change "young brits" in your mind? "By seeing that skilled jobs are valued and worthwhile, will give them a good standard of living for them and their families, see you havent answered my question on which of the public leave supporters wanted to stop all immigration, are you still looking or is it another thing you cant back up | |||
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" The construction industry will need to invest in training up local staff. Getting a Polish guy is a quick fix, but training up lower skilled / unemployed uk workers is surely a good longer term goal? Yes, that is a much better long term goal. But it has nothing to do with Brexit. This was an issue way before Brexit (as the article says) yet the government clearly has not been addressing it in a way that is working in this example. but as shown above leavers think that Brexit will fix it. Whilst yes it may fix it, it would have been preferable just to fix the blister, not amputate the foot. -Matt Very true. We have failed to invest in education and training for long periods of time. As a nation we have been able to call on external labour as a sticking plaster. Bringing in great people, pre-trained for us, whilst plundering our own training and education budgets. The situation in construction is mirrored in the NHS and elsewhere. In the short term we will probably see difficulties because of short term thinking from successive governments. Now we will be forced to fix root cause problems that have previously been papered over." Yes, I totally agree. As one person said somewhere, the one good thing about Brexit is that once we leave the EU we will no longer have the excuse of "because of the EU" to trot out as a response for every government failing. We are going to have to actually fix shit now, rather than blaming others for our incompetence. -Matt | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt"This is shocking | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016.
IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up
So how will brexit change "young brits" in your mind?
By seeing that skilled jobs are valued and worthwhile, will give them a good standard of living for them and their families, see you havent answered my question on which of the public leave supporters wanted to stop all immigration, are you still looking or is it another thing you cant back up"But if they can't see that skilled jobs are valued and worthwhile today, what will change after Brexit? Why will they suddenly see it now. If you can tell me who has claimed that the Leave campaign said they would stop all immigration, then I will tell you if they said it or not. This is quite different to what I was talking about, lots of people on this thread are suggesting that freedom of movement should carry on for years after Brexit, that its obvious and sensible. So if it is obvious and sensible, were the Leave campaign also stating this before the referendum? | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles. "Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is shocking"But I thought the government were now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships? | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people
Lol. I love some of the reasoning leavers can invent.
That's a bit like saying "you have a blister in your foot from wearing badly fitting shoes for the past 4 years. Rather than invest in some better fitting shoes we are going to amputate your foot. Just think how bad your blisters would have been in the next 4 years if we hadn't amputated your foot!"
-Matt"No its nowt like having a blister and amputating a foot | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
Another good reason for Brexit then . What would the decline have been over the next 4 years had we remained.
Now there is more incentive to train people
Lol. I love some of the reasoning leavers can invent.
That's a bit like saying "you have a blister in your foot from wearing badly fitting shoes for the past 4 years. Rather than invest in some better fitting shoes we are going to amputate your foot. Just think how bad your blisters would have been in the next 4 years if we hadn't amputated your foot!"
-Matt
The construction industry will need to invest in training up local staff. Getting a Polish guy is a quick fix, but training up lower skilled / unemployed uk workers is surely a good longer term goal?"
My mate employs 60+ gas engineers and has consciously invested in young apprentices for over 6 years, its moods them to his business principles and gives youngsters the same chance of future that both him and me had, as British Gas apprentices | |||
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"Just saw this: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/london-housing-crisis-to-worsen-after-brexit-a3506691.html "The number of construction apprentices has declined by 25 per cent in four years and almost half of all builders in London come from outside the UK."
-Matt
This is nothing to do with brexit is it the drop was from 2011 to 2015, strangely I thought the vote was in 2016.
IMVHO its more to do with young brits not wanting to do hard work having been told that they should all go to uni get an ology and work in a nice warm office on three times the pay, this is what needs addressing, bringing in foreign labour is just covering this fact up"Unfortunately many of them who went and got an ology, no realise that Gas Safe Engineers plumbers plasterers and sparks earn far more than them, and have skills which are easily transferable to other locations | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same"Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own. -Matt | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same
Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer
So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own.
-Matt"Best go tell Dyson he has just wasted 250 million building his research centre in the U.K. Whilst your at tell the owner of JCB, who has built his own academy and has invested huge amounts in U.K. Factories and research centres. Seems like we are doomed, what a foolish thing to think we can ever go it alone and choose where when and with who we wish to collaborate with | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe.But you only think you do,I,m going to try a different tack with you.Do you both have a job,have youboth paid into the system.Is your partner of foreign descent,are you married ? That will do for starters,if you refuse to answer any question,which you have a right to,I will no longer debate any topic with you except to pull you up every time you post bullshit "CLCC is incapable of answering any questions posed at him or her, he she is like Corbyn, they protest well about others whilst blaming others for their own failings. | |||
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"is it right that the government is now focusing on skills training and apprenticeships, rather than university graduates. Unlike the labour government which had an unhealthy approach to manual skills training for our youth Unhealthy approach? In which way? Wasn't it labour that introduced the modern apprenticeship scheme we currently have? I think overall we need a good mix.. but I think the equate 'apprenticeship' with 'manual skills training' might be a mistake. We are increasingly a knowledge and service based economy, and so a lot of the jobs we have to offer are increasingly in those fields. So apprenticeships must not be thought of as just 'plumbers mate' and the likes. Not to belittle those roles as we need the too... but I often hear of apprenticeships just being looked at in the context of construction and manufacturing. That said, industry needs to change too. The number of times you see internships in the publishing, advertising, media industries which are unpaid is too high for my liking. -Matt Agreed, I've been saying this for years, the country could have and need to now more than ever, ensure that apprenticeships move with the times, certain degrees need to be made more readily available, and either we need a german middle ground style approach to bridge degrees and technical skills training, or we need more degree style apprenticeships. P.s, I don't think the government did anything to discourage manual apprenticeships - I think that as education got better more people became interested in science and other subjects, and also that a lot of kids who grew up in a family with a labourer as a parent or close relative, realised that its a job which is very prone to boom and bust cycles. Kids these days don't like that. Plus too many manual labourers can be a bad thing, when growth slumps that's a lot of people who are going to be out of work for extended periods of time. I really can't see that a manual labour as opposed to a manual skilled person are 2 of the same thing. Truthfully I've been very lucky throughout my career, and I have benefited from a superb apprenticeship with British Gas in the early 80's. But I am extremely pleased to see so many young people entering the utility sector once again Not the social housing sector?
What ever... call it what you want say what you want quote what you want have what ever views you want,
It's just confusing to keep up with which sector you work in, that's all, one week its social house, another it's education, another time its STEM, another time its the utility sector. You must be very very busy
You should try it, it might be more fulfilling than the benefits you suck up
What benefits would they be? JSA? ESA? LHA? AFCS? PC? CA? PIP? DLA? AA?
I wouldn't know, as I've never been in the position where I wish to claim or would want to claim, as my pride wouldn't allow me to do it, but go ahead by all men a guide me as I'm sure you are an expert
well we know what some forumites think about experts, so I couldn't possibly put myself into that category, but I know a little bit more than your average Joe.But you only think you do,I,m going to try a different tack with you.Do you both have a job,have youboth paid into the system.Is your partner of foreign descent,are you married ? That will do for starters,if you refuse to answer any question,which you have a right to,I will no longer debate any topic with you except to pull you up every time you post bullshit
CLCC is incapable of answering any questions posed at him or her, he she is like Corbyn, they protest well about others whilst blaming others for their own failings."I've answered his questions! What failings do I have exactly? | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same
Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer
So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own.
-Matt
Best go tell Dyson he has just wasted 250 million building his research centre in the U.K.
Whilst your at tell the owner of JCB, who has built his own academy and has invested huge amounts in U.K. Factories and research centres.
Seems like we are doomed, what a foolish thing to think we can ever go it alone and choose where when and with who we wish to collaborate with"Lol. You seem to misunderstand the fundemental concept of collaboration, don't you? You can stand there until you are blue in the face demanding people collaborate with you, but if they don't want to, they won't. As for Dyson and JCB, no we are talking about scientific research and development here. Not industrial design dressed up as R&D in order to get tax breaks and sell more vacuum cleaners and diggers. -Matt | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same
Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer
So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own.
-Matt
Best go tell Dyson he has just wasted 250 million building his research centre in the U.K.
Whilst your at tell the owner of JCB, who has built his own academy and has invested huge amounts in U.K. Factories and research centres.
Seems like we are doomed, what a foolish thing to think we can ever go it alone and choose where when and with who we wish to collaborate with
Lol. You seem to misunderstand the fundemental concept of collaboration, don't you? You can stand there until you are blue in the face demanding people collaborate with you, but if they don't want to, they won't.
As for Dyson and JCB, no we are talking about scientific research and development here. Not industrial design dressed up as R&D in order to get tax breaks and sell more vacuum cleaners and diggers.
What is your job Matt,leader of the remoaners
-Matt" | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same
Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer
So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own.
-Matt
Best go tell Dyson he has just wasted 250 million building his research centre in the U.K.
Whilst your at tell the owner of JCB, who has built his own academy and has invested huge amounts in U.K. Factories and research centres.
Seems like we are doomed, what a foolish thing to think we can ever go it alone and choose where when and with who we wish to collaborate with
Lol. You seem to misunderstand the fundemental concept of collaboration, don't you? You can stand there until you are blue in the face demanding people collaborate with you, but if they don't want to, they won't.
As for Dyson and JCB, no we are talking about scientific research and development here. Not industrial design dressed up as R&D in order to get tax breaks and sell more vacuum cleaners and diggers.
-Matt"So developing more efficient motors smarter batteries which are smaller have no scientific value. Dam all of the battery powered cars which are becoming the norm because of this very research, what a waste Hand dryers which actually dry your hands faster and efficiently, just which motorway service station would want any of them And why would we want a digger and rollers etc can work remotely, create smaller trenches, remove the risk of VWF for operatives. That can lift loads to over 30 metres and ensure building operatives have the opertunity to work in a safer environment, free from danger. I'm sure there is a pill out there that can do just such things And yeah collaboration needs agreement between the party's who want to collaborate, but that's comes from finding similar like minded parties to collaborate with. Not through some mysterious EU directive. | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same
Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer
So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own.
-Matt
Best go tell Dyson he has just wasted 250 million building his research centre in the U.K.
Whilst your at tell the owner of JCB, who has built his own academy and has invested huge amounts in U.K. Factories and research centres.
Seems like we are doomed, what a foolish thing to think we can ever go it alone and choose where when and with who we wish to collaborate with
Lol. You seem to misunderstand the fundemental concept of collaboration, don't you? You can stand there until you are blue in the face demanding people collaborate with you, but if they don't want to, they won't.
As for Dyson and JCB, no we are talking about scientific research and development here. Not industrial design dressed up as R&D in order to get tax breaks and sell more vacuum cleaners and diggers.
What is your job Matt,leader of the remoaners
-Matt"He is just like the TU reps I use to negotiate with, if I had given them a 50" TV with a sky Dish for life they would have moanec. that I hadn't given them the movie channel and sky sports... Bloody hell they could argue the colour of the sky, on a clear day, and to be honest al, of the TU reps were the most bone idle of all of my 30+ plus engineers | |||
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"We need a british Elon musk to push things forward .Is Mr Dyson the best we have." Never heard of Elon Musk | |||
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"Buisness and industry should be connected to the education system. Dictating what skill sets they require.We should also invest in R&D in the sciences.Because science is the driving force in civilisation today.We need a highly educated society.
You gave that quote two thumbs up (quite rightly) yet think Brexit is a good idea. The mind boggles.
Because they are 2 totally separate issues, we do not need to be a part of the EU to have good quality scientific research, or to have state of the art R&D. Lots of countries flourish outside of the EU, there is no reason for us not doing the same
Just today though there was an article saying the non-EU countries participating in Horizon 2020 projects need to respect the ECJ. At the moment it looks like the plan is to shun the ECJ which could cast doubts on U.K. participation in some of these projects. Even though Hammond pledged to match the funding.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/hostility-to-ecj-raises-doubts-over-uks-future-in-eu-research#survey-answer
So yes, whilst there are othe countries that do good R&D we are sat next to a bunch of them that are able to work together whilst we are sat on the outside on our own.
-Matt
Best go tell Dyson he has just wasted 250 million building his research centre in the U.K.
Whilst your at tell the owner of JCB, who has built his own academy and has invested huge amounts in U.K. Factories and research centres.
Seems like we are doomed, what a foolish thing to think we can ever go it alone and choose where when and with who we wish to collaborate with
Lol. You seem to misunderstand the fundemental concept of collaboration, don't you? You can stand there until you are blue in the face demanding people collaborate with you, but if they don't want to, they won't.
As for Dyson and JCB, no we are talking about scientific research and development here. Not industrial design dressed up as R&D in order to get tax breaks and sell more vacuum cleaners and diggers.
-Matt
So developing more efficient motors smarter batteries which are smaller have no scientific value.
Dam all of the battery powered cars which are becoming the norm because of this very research, what a waste
Hand dryers which actually dry your hands faster and efficiently, just which motorway service station would want any of them
And why would we want a digger and rollers etc can work remotely, create smaller trenches, remove the risk of VWF for operatives.
That can lift loads to over 30 metres and ensure building operatives have the opertunity to work in a safer environment, free from danger.
I'm sure there is a pill out there that can do just such things
And yeah collaboration needs agreement between the party's who want to collaborate, but that's comes from finding similar like minded parties to collaborate with. Not through some mysterious EU directive."No, it has immense value. Why would you think it didn't? -Matt | |||
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"We need a british Elon musk to push things forward .Is Mr Dyson the best we have. Never heard of Elon Musk" Really? Was CEO of PayPal. The founded Tesla (who incendally probably advanced battery tech significantly further than Dyson), CEO of SpaceX who have successfully landed and relaunched a space vehicle. And who hopes to have humans on mars in 20 years time. -Matt | |||
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"We need a british Elon musk to push things forward .Is Mr Dyson the best we have. Never heard of Elon Musk Really? Was CEO of PayPal. The founded Tesla (who incendally probably advanced battery tech significantly further than Dyson), CEO of SpaceX who have successfully landed and relaunched a space vehicle. And who hopes to have humans on mars in 20 years time. -Matt" Can't stand PayPal, I do love me the dash board inside them there Teslas, as for mars I really can't see the point in people thinking that we can set a new earth up there. But I would love to see our current planet from space. But thanks for the update | |||
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"We need a british Elon musk to push things forward .Is Mr Dyson the best we have. Never heard of Elon Musk Really? Was CEO of PayPal. The founded Tesla (who incendally probably advanced battery tech significantly further than Dyson), CEO of SpaceX who have successfully landed and relaunched a space vehicle. And who hopes to have humans on mars in 20 years time. -Matt Can't stand PayPal, I do love me the dash board inside them there Teslas, as for mars I really can't see the point in people thinking that we can set a new earth up there. But I would love to see our current planet from space. But thanks for the update " You're welcome. -Matt | |||
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