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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. " The older interchangable like minded self serving slime you mention created the thirst for a referendum. Consider that | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur." i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions " Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted." nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked over | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted." ....  | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked over" I'll file that one away with all your usual negative "not my fault" postings. | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked over I'll file that one away with all your usual negative "not my fault" postings." you can do whatever usually stupid shit you want chap | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked over I'll file that one away with all your usual negative "not my fault" postings. you can do whatever usually stupid shit you want chap" Irony at its best.  | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted." It's nothing to do with 'vision' or 'drive', it's about reality. If I say that British people can't jump to the moon, is that 'talking the country down' or is that simply pointing out the obvious truth? | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. It's nothing to do with 'vision' or 'drive', it's about reality. If I say that British people can't jump to the moon, is that 'talking the country down' or is that simply pointing out the obvious truth? " Many businesses up here have got on with things with positivity. One local owner I know voted Remain, he accepted the result, got on with things and has seen his business rise by 35%. Maybe it's a North /South divide, but businesses here are vibrant and thriving. | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked over" This I am totally vocally and foot stampy about Brexit and the fact I live in a country with so many people who think it's a great idea However I have a little money, I am going to be great thanks, however I'm not selfish like Brexit voters , the world has problems that need joined up thinking , not I'm alright jack , hide head in sand fuck you attitude | |||
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"First thing to do is for the whole Country to accept and respect the fact that we are leaving. Otherwise bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. Some Remainers have good ideas, some just stamp their feet like petulant children." Agree wholeheartedly, but I fear the vote was too close for this to happen. Extremists on Both sides are entrenched, and the middle ground are not loud enough to overcome the bitter rhetoric. The only way it could be resolved is IF brexit proves to be the magic elixir that's been claimed it will be, everyone becomes better off then YES we will be United - we are all selfish! If it fails then god forbid what could happen. As I have said many times - time will tell. | |||
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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. " So let's put in charge of negotiations a war criminal, the original prince of darkness (and oligarchs best friend) who got kicked out of government twice for financial irregularities. Add a petulant ex minister who chucked his toys out of the pram when he resigned from cabinet just because he couldn't get his own way. Bringing up the rear we would have one of the most Europhile politicians outside of the Lib Dems who would say yes to pretty much everything Brussels wanted, and last but not least the war criminals bag carrier and conspirator in chief. I'll stick with May, Davis, Fox and the rest thanks. | |||
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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. So let's put in charge of negotiations a war criminal, the original prince of darkness (and oligarchs best friend) who got kicked out of government twice for financial irregularities. Add a petulant ex minister who chucked his toys out of the pram when he resigned from cabinet just because he couldn't get his own way. Bringing up the rear we would have one of the most Europhile politicians outside of the Lib Dems who would say yes to pretty much everything Brussels wanted, and last but not least the war criminals bag carrier and conspirator in chief. I'll stick with May, Davis, Fox and the rest thanks." I was loathe to bring that up, in the fear that it would be seen as gloating. All the time in the world for Remainers with ideas and some positivity. Those that want to hijack the Brexit result for their own political agendas or just want to vent their spleen, then why should I bother with you? | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked over" haha i like this. I think my money is old enough  The over 40s will do well the 20 somethings and teens will have to "suck it up buttercup" as our leave citzens say.It will be interesting what term this generation will be given.We've had generation x and Y and millenials. | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this?" Go for it. Works for me. -Matt | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. nope .... those with old money will prosper ..... eveyone else will get fucked overhaha i like this. I think my money is old enough The over 40s will do well the 20 somethings and teens will have to "suck it up buttercup" as our leave citzens say.It will be interesting what term this generation will be given.We've had generation x and Y and millenials. "Generation z have come of age | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this?" Nope. Pointless model | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this? Nope. Pointless model" One yes, one no, lets have a bit of in house democracy. | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this? Nope. Pointless model One yes, one no, lets have a bit of in house democracy." Crumbs... democracy? That is far too specific a question to have posed. Don't you know how referendums work? You need to ask something far more vague than that. How about "Primary objective is to go for a model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this?". Then is can be the Norway one, the Swiss one etc... or even to please The Sun readers it can be Gisele Bundchen.
-Matt | |||
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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. " Well done you nearly had me there then I realised you had posted on April fools day
Blair, cambell and Mandelson ?? Did they ever do anything but feather their own nest, and Dear old hesletine said that us leaving will allow the Germans to rule europe,doesnt sound much like he is a fan of being in a club where one member is trying to run it for their own benefit | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this? Nope. Pointless model One yes, one no, lets have a bit of in house democracy. Crumbs... democracy? That is far too specific a question to have posed. Don't you know how referendums work? You need to ask something far more vague than that. How about "Primary objective is to go for a model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this?". Then is can be the Norway one, the Swiss one etc... or even to please The Sun readers it can be Gisele Bundchen.
-Matt "Yes democracy, seems a bit radical for you that. What we have witnessed with the implementation of Article 50 is the political classes going against their own judgement under the duress of being unable to disregard the democratic will/right of the 'common man'. You should be celebrating the result not moaning about it | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this? Nope. Pointless model One yes, one no, lets have a bit of in house democracy. Crumbs... democracy? That is far too specific a question to have posed. Don't you know how referendums work? You need to ask something far more vague than that. How about "Primary objective is to go for a model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this?". Then is can be the Norway one, the Swiss one etc... or even to please The Sun readers it can be Gisele Bundchen.
-Matt
Yes democracy, seems a bit radical for you that.
What we have witnessed with the implementation of Article 50 is the political classes going against their own judgement under the duress of being unable to disregard the democratic will/right of the 'common man'.
You should be celebrating the result not moaning about it"Yes. Democracy. Literally 'rule of the commoners'. A system of government which involves the entire eligible electorate. That is what I believe in and what I am fighting for. As you said, this is something that the Article 60 debate highlighted. That May was slapped down by the courts for trying to undermine. And why should I be celebrating the result? I celebrated the result of the Supreme Court case as I agreed with the result of that. But the side of the argument I voted for in the referendum didn't win. Why should I celebrate that? Next you'll be going to football grounds and telling the fans of the losing side they should be celebrating too? -Matt | |||
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"First thing to do is for the whole Country to accept and respect the fact that we are leaving. Otherwise bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. Some Remainers have good ideas, some just stamp their feet like petulant children." No, a better alternative is to stop brexit. | |||
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"First thing to do is for the whole Country to accept and respect the fact that we are leaving." You dont have to accept it, it will be like ireland with a border, but yes, everyone have to live with the consequence. | |||
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"PM on Wednesday: we want a deep and special relationship with our European friends. PM on Sunday: If necessary we'll go to war with Spain." Please put a link where TM said she will go to war over Gib ? More post truth fake news from the remainers. I am sure that Spain will never invade Gib the whole world would condemn them and they would soon leave again, the UK would certainly fight back if they didnt, are you really suggesting that we should desert british citizens ? | |||
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"PM on Wednesday: we want a deep and special relationship with our European friends. PM on Sunday: If necessary we'll go to war with Spain. Please put a link where TM said she will go to war over Gib ? More post truth fake news from the remainers. I am sure that Spain will never invade Gib the whole world would condemn them and they would soon leave again, the UK would certainly fight back if they didnt, are you really suggesting that we should desert british citizens ? " According to the telegraph and Michael Howard. | |||
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"PM on Wednesday: we want a deep and special relationship with our European friends. PM on Sunday: If necessary we'll go to war with Spain. Please put a link where TM said she will go to war over Gib ? More post truth fake news from the remainers. I am sure that Spain will never invade Gib the whole world would condemn them and they would soon leave again, the UK would certainly fight back if they didnt, are you really suggesting that we should desert british citizens ? " Indeed, May had never said it (at least publically). It was Michael Howard who made the comparison of May and Gibraltar to Thatcher and the Falklands and said that he is absolutely certain she would show the same resolve. I think if I were May I'd be getting out a retraction of this or publicaly slapping him down... unless she does believe it. -Matt | |||
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"PM on Wednesday: we want a deep and special relationship with our European friends. PM on Sunday: If necessary we'll go to war with Spain. Please put a link where TM said she will go to war over Gib ? More post truth fake news from the remainers. I am sure that Spain will never invade Gib the whole world would condemn them and they would soon leave again, the UK would certainly fight back if they didnt, are you really suggesting that we should desert british citizens ? According to the telegraph and Michael Howard. " Ok I accept your apology that she hasnt said it, but how about answering the second part are you suggesting we abandon british citizens living there ? | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts?" I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit " so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war?" Quite happy to but a tad old now | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Quite happy to but a tad old now" so your all mouth and no trousers when it comes to it then .... your talk is cheap | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Quite happy to but a tad old now so your all mouth and no trousers when it comes to it then .... your talk is cheap" If they want me quite happy to do my bit how about you ? | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Quite happy to but a tad old now so your all mouth and no trousers when it comes to it then .... your talk is cheap If they want me quite happy to do my bit how about you ?" no fucking chance.... war is for idiots and fuckwits | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Quite happy to but a tad old now so your all mouth and no trousers when it comes to it then .... your talk is cheap If they want me quite happy to do my bit how about you ? no fucking chance.... war is for idiots and fuckwits" So if you had been alive during the 1st or 2nd WW you would have refused to fight while others died to protect your family ? | |||
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" .... bitterness is going to fester and division will occur. i think you'll find you're a bit "after the fact" with your predicitions Those with vision and drive will prosper, those with continued negativity will just be bitter and twisted. It's nothing to do with 'vision' or 'drive', it's about reality. If I say that British people can't jump to the moon, is that 'talking the country down' or is that simply pointing out the obvious truth? " Clearly a traitor:p | |||
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"Disappointingly the usual leave suspects on this thread have turned this already into a 'accept it and suck it up, stop talking us down' thread. Stop. Open your eyes. Read what the OP actually wrote and stop your bile. The bit I really still don't understand is why leavers are not thoroughly fucked off with the current efforts by the Team GB negotiation team. As a remainer, I'm already pissed off with it all. But leavers? Why are you not fucked off that given the amount of time passed so far, those negotiation on our behalf seem to have do so little preparation? The fact tht when questioned by the select committee Davis has admitted that they haven't even worked out the financial position of 'no deal' yet?! (as just one example) -Matt" Poppycock old bean No deal is better a bad deal.... Obviously  How could it be worse | |||
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"Disappointingly the usual leave suspects on this thread have turned this already into a 'accept it and suck it up, stop talking us down' thread. Stop. Open your eyes. Read what the OP actually wrote and stop your bile. The bit I really still don't understand is why leavers are not thoroughly fucked off with the current efforts by the Team GB negotiation team. As a remainer, I'm already pissed off with it all. But leavers? Why are you not fucked off that given the amount of time passed so far, those negotiation on our behalf seem to have do so little preparation? The fact tht when questioned by the select committee Davis has admitted that they haven't even worked out the financial position of 'no deal' yet?! (as just one example) -Matt Poppycock old bean No deal is better a bad deal.... Obviously How could it be worse "So, just to be clear. Does 'no deal' mean I can spunk over a blue passport or not? -Matt | |||
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"PM on Wednesday: we want a deep and special relationship with our European friends. PM on Sunday: If necessary we'll go to war with Spain." The only people to use the word "war" were the headline writers at the Telegraph. Bad journalism, may well cost them in the future. | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Quite happy to but a tad old now so your all mouth and no trousers when it comes to it then .... your talk is cheap If they want me quite happy to do my bit how about you ? no fucking chance.... war is for idiots and fuckwits So if you had been alive during the 1st or 2nd WW you would have refused to fight while others died to protect your family ?" what a pointless fucking question ... get with the progeam grandama ... that was 80 fucking years ago | |||
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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. The older interchangable like minded self serving slime you mention created the thirst for a referendum. Consider that" Mandelson, didn't he commit a criminal act and fiddle his mortgage many years ago And as for that despicable twat, he dodged every bullet on Iraq, I wouldn't like sharing the same room with him, let alone have him negotiating anything, as the only interest he has at heart is his own and his bank balance. Both are strangely very very wealthy for 2 peeps who can tell you all about what a struggle it is to be working class | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war?" Go and walk the beaches at Omaha Utah Gold and Juno, and as you do shout out loud, these beaches and this land was freed by fuckwits who had their hands soiled by war, then after why not pop up the road and visit the American cemetery and do the same. I'm sure you will find thousands there who gave the most precious thing they had so you can free to spout shit If you want I will lay a cross with your words for you, when I'm visiting the British cemeteries in holland this month, what would you like it to say, here lies a war ,mongering fuckwit | |||
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"Fuck it it i'm just going to throw my hat into this race. I'll go sort the mess out. Primary objective is to go for the Norway style model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this? Nope. Pointless model One yes, one no, lets have a bit of in house democracy. Crumbs... democracy? That is far too specific a question to have posed. Don't you know how referendums work? You need to ask something far more vague than that. How about "Primary objective is to go for a model. We can change this later if need be. Everyone happy with this?". Then is can be the Norway one, the Swiss one etc... or even to please The Sun readers it can be Gisele Bundchen.
-Matt
Yes democracy, seems a bit radical for you that.
What we have witnessed with the implementation of Article 50 is the political classes going against their own judgement under the duress of being unable to disregard the democratic will/right of the 'common man'.
You should be celebrating the result not moaning about it". | |||
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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. So let's put in charge of negotiations a war criminal, the original prince of darkness (and oligarchs best friend) who got kicked out of government twice for financial irregularities. Add a petulant ex minister who chucked his toys out of the pram when he resigned from cabinet just because he couldn't get his own way. Bringing up the rear we would have one of the most Europhile politicians outside of the Lib Dems who would say yes to pretty much everything Brussels wanted, and last but not least the war criminals bag carrier and conspirator in chief. I'll stick with May, Davis, Fox and the rest thanks." Well said | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Go and walk the beaches at Omaha Utah Gold and Juno, and as you do shout out loud, these beaches and this land was freed by fuckwits who had their hands soiled by war, then after why not pop up the road and visit the American cemetery and do the same. I'm sure you will find thousands there who gave the most precious thing they had so you can free to spout shit If you want I will lay a cross with your words for you, when I'm visiting the British cemeteries in holland this month, what would you like it to say, here lies a war ,mongering fuckwit" This.
I will be visiting the Tyne Cot memorial in Belgium in September to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the day my great uncle was killed at Passchendaele.
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"We have taken a terrible decision, have a very weak hand to play and are, frankly, desperate for any scraps the EU can throw us. Our best hope was to act like a decent adult, conduct ourselves in the most decent way possible. Instead we have abandoned that from the get go. Apart from highlighting the complete lack of moral compass the tories, especially the more right wing ones, have, this lot have surely shown even to the most rabid of brexiters, they are just too incompetent to negotiate. I make no excuses for some of the decisions they were a party too in the past, but when you consider the political nous of some of the people speaking out loudest against this brexit folly - Blair, Mandleson, Hesletine, Clarke and Alistair Campbell; then compare them to Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, Teresa May and Greg Clarke, it's a fucking joke who we've got in charge of this. Put the elder statesmen up against the current crop and it would be men against boys. Put them up against the experienced European negotiators and politicians and we'd maybe scrape a draw. They might manage a Rorkes Drift. The current lot? it's isandlwana baby. " Actually the Rourkes drift/isandlwana comparison isn't that bad really. The experienced old guard led by Chelmsford well and truly got their arses kicked. Meanwhile a small group led by two inexperienced junior officers held out. Yes I'll go with that one. | |||
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".... leaving us with older interchangable like minded self serving slime in charge of todays unmitigated fucking up of the country " A large amount of the "fucking up" of the country was carried out by the "elder statesmen" (slimeballs like Mandleson and Bliar) that you are advocating we listen to? | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Go and walk the beaches at Omaha Utah Gold and Juno, and as you do shout out loud, these beaches and this land was freed by fuckwits who had their hands soiled by war, then after why not pop up the road and visit the American cemetery and do the same. I'm sure you will find thousands there who gave the most precious thing they had so you can free to spout shit If you want I will lay a cross with your words for you, when I'm visiting the British cemeteries in holland this month, what would you like it to say, here lies a war ,mongering fuckwit This.
I will be visiting the Tyne Cot memorial in Belgium in September to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the day my great uncle was killed at Passchendaele.
"we've done a tour for the last 5 years, its a reflective time when out there, also totally emotional and moving | |||
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".... leaving us with older interchangable like minded self serving slime in charge of todays unmitigated fucking up of the country A large amount of the "fucking up" of the country was carried out by the "elder statesmen" (slimeballs like Mandleson and Bliar) that you are advocating we listen to?" | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Go and walk the beaches at Omaha Utah Gold and Juno, and as you do shout out loud, these beaches and this land was freed by fuckwits who had their hands soiled by war, then after why not pop up the road and visit the American cemetery and do the same. I'm sure you will find thousands there who gave the most precious thing they had so you can free to spout shit If you want I will lay a cross with your words for you, when I'm visiting the British cemeteries in holland this month, what would you like it to say, here lies a war ,mongering fuckwit This.
I will be visiting the Tyne Cot memorial in Belgium in September to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the day my great uncle was killed at Passchendaele.
we've done a tour for the last 5 years, its a reflective time when out there, also totally emotional and moving"
Next weekend I will be at Vimy Ridge, 100yrs to the day my great uncle died fighting for our freedom alongside many other brave Canadians. | |||
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"are you suggesting you would sit in the trenches facing la linea with the rest of the union jack waving grunts? I believe in supporting british citizens, its just as well that people of the world didnt have your attitude at the start of WW2 or we wouldnt be having this debate or worrying about brexit so was taht a yes or a no to you getting your hands grubby with the filth of war? Go and walk the beaches at Omaha Utah Gold and Juno, and as you do shout out loud, these beaches and this land was freed by fuckwits who had their hands soiled by war, then after why not pop up the road and visit the American cemetery and do the same. I'm sure you will find thousands there who gave the most precious thing they had so you can free to spout shit If you want I will lay a cross with your words for you, when I'm visiting the British cemeteries in holland this month, what would you like it to say, here lies a war ,mongering fuckwit This.
I will be visiting the Tyne Cot memorial in Belgium in September to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the day my great uncle was killed at Passchendaele.
we've done a tour for the last 5 years, its a reflective time when out there, also totally emotional and moving
Next weekend I will be at Vimy Ridge, 100yrs to the day my great uncle died fighting for our freedom alongside many other brave Canadians."Vimy Ridge is an awesome memorial, and when the Canadians also thought of themselves as an independent nation. it was the 1st time that the maple leaf was unofficially used as the canadian flag. Its so nice to see so many young girls and guys proudly representing their nation at the site we could learn a lot from them and the memorial as we move forward with Brexit, and what will ultimately be a complicated and frustrating period for us as we once again proudly become an independent self dependant nation | |||
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".... leaving us with older interchangable like minded self serving slime in charge of todays unmitigated fucking up of the country A large amount of the "fucking up" of the country was carried out by the "elder statesmen" (slimeballs like Mandleson and Bliar) that you are advocating we listen to?" when or where did i advocate that? | |||
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"The problem is at what point do leavers finally work out that for a deal to work there are going to have to be concessions made.... If every concession is going to be met with headlines of "enemies of the people" or accusations of selling out the cause.. the pressure is going to be to accept no deal... I would have preferred leavers in high positions to give balance where at the moment it is full of exiters and that worries me " I dont think people saying that gibraltar stays british until the residents change their mind is an unreasonable position to take, brexiters accept that to have control over who enters this country means we wont be in the single market, that imo is a concession from where I am looking it is the remainers that dont want things to change | |||
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"I'm pretty sure in my OP I made it clear some of the decisions the elder statemen made were controversial. Clarke and Hestletine were part of Margaret fucking Thatchers cabinet, so there are countless decisions they had a hand in that I objected very strongly to. With Tony Blair, Iraq was uppermost in my mind. I have often read on here the outrage over Iraq and how Tony Blair should be in jail for War crimes. I quite agree he should be put on trial. I quite agree the Iraq war was illegal and a terrible mistake for which many British soldiers and innocent Iraqi's paid with their lives and the UK with it's international standing especially in the region. I was protesting about it at the time. It was predominantly the centre left protesting and marching. It was where I first came across Jeremy Corbyn when he was leading the Stop The War movement, which was when I decided he was probably on the whole on of the more decent MP's and worthy of some benefit of the doubt when he was elected Labour leader. I rather think some of the NOW more vociferous right wing anti Blair loudmouths on here were, along with Michael Howard and the entire Tory Party baying to send our young people to war on a flimsy amount of evidence and without UN backing. Based on their genral scribbles on here anyway. However, that wasn't the point of my OP. These people may have, at times (but not always), proceeded with a shitty course of action. However they did tend to do so in a competent, often masterful way. They understood politics, they understood PR, they understood Machiavelli and they understood spin and could give the current lot a masterclass however they also understood that, in the end, there had to be substance and full appreciation of details and wider implications. You might not like Blair, or Mandleson, or Campbell, or Hestletine but if they had been set the task of negotiating our way out of this, a virtually impossible task mind you, at the very least the EU and the rest of the world would still be regarding us as a serious country, instead of an embarrassing joke. TM & co are lucky Trump is around as it means we are just A laughing stock, not THE laughing stock. " So TB took us into a war in a competent way ? Shame he didnt have a clue how to deal with the country afterwards, so he understood spin AKA lies, much like your comment about the entire tory party baying for war, 15 tory mps actually voted against it, of course if blair et al were in charge the people of this country would never had the chance to vote as he knew best . | |||
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"The problem is at what point do leavers finally work out that for a deal to work there are going to have to be concessions made.... If every concession is going to be met with headlines of "enemies of the people" or accusations of selling out the cause.. the pressure is going to be to accept no deal... I would have preferred leavers in high positions to give balance where at the moment it is full of exiters and that worries me " 1st rule of negotiations is knowing that you will need to concede ground, that you won't fully get what you want or desire. Trade off will need to made on all sides, but you must appear strong throughout whilst having empathetic approach to others and there wishes and aspirations | |||
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"I'm pretty sure in my OP I made it clear some of the decisions the elder statemen made were controversial. Clarke and Hestletine were part of Margaret fucking Thatchers cabinet, so there are countless decisions they had a hand in that I objected very strongly to. With Tony Blair, Iraq was uppermost in my mind. I have often read on here the outrage over Iraq and how Tony Blair should be in jail for War crimes. I quite agree he should be put on trial. I quite agree the Iraq war was illegal and a terrible mistake for which many British soldiers and innocent Iraqi's paid with their lives and the UK with it's international standing especially in the region. I was protesting about it at the time. It was predominantly the centre left protesting and marching. It was where I first came across Jeremy Corbyn when he was leading the Stop The War movement, which was when I decided he was probably on the whole on of the more decent MP's and worthy of some benefit of the doubt when he was elected Labour leader. I rather think some of the NOW more vociferous right wing anti Blair loudmouths on here were, along with Michael Howard and the entire Tory Party baying to send our young people to war on a flimsy amount of evidence and without UN backing. Based on their genral scribbles on here anyway. However, that wasn't the point of my OP. These people may have, at times (but not always), proceeded with a shitty course of action. However they did tend to do so in a competent, often masterful way. They understood politics, they understood PR, they understood Machiavelli and they understood spin and could give the current lot a masterclass however they also understood that, in the end, there had to be substance and full appreciation of details and wider implications. You might not like Blair, or Mandleson, or Campbell, or Hestletine but if they had been set the task of negotiating our way out of this, a virtually impossible task mind you, at the very least the EU and the rest of the world would still be regarding us as a serious country, instead of an embarrassing joke. TM & co are lucky Trump is around as it means we are just A laughing stock, not THE laughing stock. " Remind me again, just what is crook mandelson famous for, what if anything of any worth has he delivered for the UK and its populace?.. | |||
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"I'm pretty sure in my OP I made it clear some of the decisions the elder statemen made were controversial. Clarke and Hestletine were part of Margaret fucking Thatchers cabinet, so there are countless decisions they had a hand in that I objected very strongly to. With Tony Blair, Iraq was uppermost in my mind. I have often read on here the outrage over Iraq and how Tony Blair should be in jail for War crimes. I quite agree he should be put on trial. I quite agree the Iraq war was illegal and a terrible mistake for which many British soldiers and innocent Iraqi's paid with their lives and the UK with it's international standing especially in the region. I was protesting about it at the time. It was predominantly the centre left protesting and marching. It was where I first came across Jeremy Corbyn when he was leading the Stop The War movement, which was when I decided he was probably on the whole on of the more decent MP's and worthy of some benefit of the doubt when he was elected Labour leader. I rather think some of the NOW more vociferous right wing anti Blair loudmouths on here were, along with Michael Howard and the entire Tory Party baying to send our young people to war on a flimsy amount of evidence and without UN backing. Based on their genral scribbles on here anyway. However, that wasn't the point of my OP. These people may have, at times (but not always), proceeded with a shitty course of action. However they did tend to do so in a competent, often masterful way. They understood politics, they understood PR, they understood Machiavelli and they understood spin and could give the current lot a masterclass however they also understood that, in the end, there had to be substance and full appreciation of details and wider implications. You might not like Blair, or Mandleson, or Campbell, or Hestletine but if they had been set the task of negotiating our way out of this, a virtually impossible task mind you, at the very least the EU and the rest of the world would still be regarding us as a serious country, instead of an embarrassing joke. TM & co are lucky Trump is around as it means we are just A laughing stock, not THE laughing stock. So TB took us into a war in a competent way ? Shame he didnt have a clue how to deal with the country afterwards, so he understood spin AKA lies, much like your comment about the entire tory party baying for war, 15 tory mps actually voted against it, of course if blair et al were in charge the people of this country would never had the chance to vote as he knew best . " the same tony Blair who lined his pockets as Middle East peace envoy, and left it in even more of mess after his time leading it, than it ever was in before he started in the role. Yeah the guy is total success, well at least he is a financial success for Tony Blair and the b Blair Faimly PLC | |||
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