FabSwingers.com forum: The (not so) Great Reform Bill

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So on leaving the EU the minister for overseeing the departure has admitted the process of enacting EU legislation will take five years as "90%" of the various regulations and directives will be kept. So why leave? Looks life a lot of constitutional lawyers will be making out like bandits!

Also the reform or repeal bill will almost give ministers the same powers as Henry VIII!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Distraction of course buddy.

Inflation in all sectors has risen while wages have not, now everything is expensive because of Brexit, things have to be cut because of Brexit etc etc

Western leaders are excellent thieves they have the distraction thing down. In Africa they just steal the ps then act surprised when everybody kicks off.

Crypto fascism is far more palatable to us Humans than any other form of governance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So on leaving the EU the minister for overseeing the departure has admitted the process of enacting EU legislation will take five years as "90%" of the various regulations and directives will be kept. So why leave? Looks life a lot of constitutional lawyers will be making out like bandits!

Also the reform or repeal bill will almost give ministers the same powers as Henry VIII! "

He will drag it out as long as he is allowed because after that he is out of a job

Also I can see talks breaking down real early because they have outlined that if we want access to the single market the we will still have to respect the basic 4 rules about free movement of imigration ect exactly what people voted against

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So its all a bit of a cluster fuck really?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also the reform or repeal bill will almost give ministers the same powers as Henry VIII! "

It's the 10% you have to worry about, they'll be the fuckers that might actually affect your rights on a day to day basis. I'm fairly sure they're not looking to replace the HRA (1998) out of any sense of altruism!

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"So its all a bit of a cluster fuck really?"

Yes. As we knew it would be.

I'm not sure if Buzzfeed count as a reputable news source, but I did see the published quite a good list of a whole bunch of things May has to try and achieve now:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/now-comes-the-hard-part

It's going to be tough work.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So its all a bit of a cluster fuck really?

Yes. As we knew it would be.

I'm not sure if Buzzfeed count as a reputable news source, but I did see the published quite a good list of a whole bunch of things May has to try and achieve now:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/now-comes-the-hard-part

It's going to be tough work.

-Matt

We're the UK, don't you know? The frogs, wops, degos and krauts will do as they're told and make sure the rest of their mates know to do likewise!

That's how we'll extricate ourselves from those 34 problems (and the bitch ain't one).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So its all a bit of a cluster fuck really?

Yes. As we knew it would be.

I'm not sure if Buzzfeed count as a reputable news source, but I did see the published quite a good list of a whole bunch of things May has to try and achieve now:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/now-comes-the-hard-part

It's going to be tough work.

-Matt

We're the UK, don't you know? The frogs, wops, degos and krauts will do as they're told and make sure the rest of their mates know to do likewise!

That's how we'll extricate ourselves from those 34 problems (and the bitch ain't one)."

My family of wops voted for this bill and to extricate themselves from the one problem. The EU

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws."

Or indeed "improve" those laws

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Yes we r the UK and I'm

Proud of it why diss yr own country u clown

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes we r the UK and I'm

Proud of it why diss yr own country u clown "

Methinks you miss the point somewhat...

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

Or indeed "improve" those laws"

Or most likely just ignore you and do whatever the fuck they want. Especially if it is the Tories. Which unless anything drastic happens it is likely to be by default

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

Or indeed "improve" those laws

Or most likely just ignore you and do whatever the fuck they want. Especially if it is the Tories. Which unless anything drastic happens it is likely to be by default

-Matt"

That's right. People will have to get off their arses and vote for the party that offers the policies they want.

Of course that relies on there being credible alternatives to vote for.........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from"

The majority of which, were the laws we already had anyway!

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from"

The idea is you vote to change them in British elections. That's how it works.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from"

How long would it take to start from scratch?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from"

You need to realise that contracts, agreements etc are still being signed under EU law.

On the day that we leave both parties need to have clarity under whose law they are working under.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from"

Well to be honest that is the most practical approach to this. There is so much to get through I don't see any other way. Although I wouldn't put it past this govt to sneak in 'minor' changes without oversight.

-Matt

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from

-Matt"

That's what Parliament is there for....to scrutinise.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from

The majority of which, were the laws we already had anyway!"

And the MEPs that we elected voted on the 'winning' side of about 98% of the laws from the EU anyway. So it's not like we didn't like (hardly) any of them.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

Or indeed "improve" those laws

Or most likely just ignore you and do whatever the fuck they want. Especially if it is the Tories. Which unless anything drastic happens it is likely to be by default

-Matt

That's right. People will have to get off their arses and vote for the party that offers the policies they want.

Of course that relies on there being credible alternatives to vote for........."

Which there currently aren't, which as a lifelong 'liberal' (small L, not the daft cunts who, for the most part, bent over and took it up the arse from Cameron) is a fairly depressing scenario.

And before anyone starts, a lack of viable opposition is ALWAYS a bad thing, regardless of who's in power. It virtually removes any checks and balances as was proved by New Labour when the Conservatives were in the doldrums.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from

-Matt

That's what Parliament is there for....to scrutinise."

Indeed. But as has already been show recently the current government don't particularly want parliament to scrutinise anything.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from

-Matt

That's what Parliament is there for....to scrutinise.

Indeed. But as has already been show recently the current government don't particularly want parliament to scrutinise anything.

-Matt"

'We want our sovereignty back...'

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Don't forget that we had a lot of input and initiated some of the EU laws.

Laws just don't happen overnight. They have to go through Committees, The Commons, The Lords....and laws are always divisive, they suit some, and not others.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"So one of the leavers main argument...so the British can make its own laws ..turns out we don't we prefer to just take the same eu laws that the people voted to get away from

-Matt

That's what Parliament is there for....to scrutinise.

Indeed. But as has already been show recently the current government don't particularly want parliament to scrutinise anything.

-Matt"

When voting for the Reform Bill they need to ensure it offers a true copy and paste of existing rules.

Then any changes to laws can only be changed in the normal way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have to match a lot of the EU stuff so you can d so with them at a later date, trading standards and the like or producers will drop quality and then problems exporting to the EU block.

Security had to stay the same so as to be able to share info with Europol and the laws co e into effect for that extridition treaties ect

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

Or indeed "improve" those laws"

But we can already do that via parliament.. eu law just happens to be the minimum standard that can be set....

And if we are trading with Europe anyway you are not going to be allowed to trade below those standards

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

I can't see why its going to take so long.....apparently less than 6% of our laws had anything to do with the EU before the referendum....

We had always had complete sovereignty. ....

And EU law was not supreme over UK law....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And EU law was not supreme over UK law....

Who told you that?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

Or indeed "improve" those laws

But we can already do that via parliament.. eu law just happens to be the minimum standard that can be set....

And if we are trading with Europe anyway you are not going to be allowed to trade below those standards "

That's Standards e.g Product safety etc etc.

The reform bill is for laws, which are just exact, you can't define better or worse. They will become UK law. They can then be changed in the normal political way. The change could be an improvemnet or a deterioration, depending on your viewpoint of the particular law in question.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"The reform bill purposely just leaves things as they are today.

Then in future General Elections you can vote for whichever party best suits your personal beliefs on how to change / leave those laws.

Or indeed "improve" those laws

But we can already do that via parliament.. eu law just happens to be the minimum standard that can be set....

And if we are trading with Europe anyway you are not going to be allowed to trade below those standards

That's Standards e.g Product safety etc etc.

Right, but at the moment there will be an EU directive for some kind of electrical safety or toy safety item. Eg something like 'All electrical items must come with a fuse' or something like that (don't bother correcting me if that is wrong, it's an illustration). Now we *might* have a British standard that covers this. We might not. So come cut off day suddenly this EU directive is no longer in force. So unless we craft something similar in our legal system then suddenly manufactures could sell electrical items without a fuse. They would still need a fuse and to comply with EU directive XYZ in order to sell it in the EU. But I guess they could still sell it here in the U.K.

Of course remember on it the reason's some leavers gave for wanting to leave the EU was so they didn't have to bother complying with some of these directives (or ones related to their staff or working practices). Their wording was to 'cut EU red tape and hassle'.

Are there directives that are overreaching? Yes. The EU directive on cookie consent on web pages is an example from my industry. Very badly written, very ambitious, near impossible to implement. No doubt there are others in other industries too. But there are of course ones that *are* beneficial. And there will be a lot of work separating the wheat from the chaff.

-Matt

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Distraction of course buddy.

Inflation in all sectors has risen while wages have not, now everything is expensive because of Brexit, things have to be cut because of Brexit etc etc

Western leaders are excellent thieves they have the distraction thing down. In Africa they just steal the ps then act surprised when everybody kicks off.

Crypto fascism is far more palatable to us Humans than any other form of governance

"
What has this got to do with the OP's statement?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

As I understand it the purpose of the Great Reform Act is to give ministers once only secondary legislation powers on all EU directives and regulations.

This in effect gives powers to ministers so they can alter any piece of primary legislation that incorporates any EU law without parliamentary scrutiny but once altered will require primary legislation to amend or undo.

It is without doubt the greatest power grab we have seen in the UK since the Cromwell made himself Lord Protector!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Taking the point about the electrical plug above (which is not far from fact) for the most part the EU council issued directives which were then enacted by the member state like the CDM regulations which cover health and safety on construction projects. Those regs will not be repealed as they are good practice. Perhaps the argument about taking back sovereignty was as spurious as the additional £350m a week additional funding being given to the NHS?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

-Matt"

That's right. The EU and soon to be british law says everyone must comply with the Toy Safety directive. That calls up EN xyz (EN being European Norm, the old Britsh BS standards and German DIN standards are redundant)

After the Repeal Bill, we'll still have to comply with European Toy Directive EN xyz.

In the future, after lobbying by a toy manufacturer, some political party might say we don't want to comply with it any more and change that law in parliament. If we were foolish enough to do that, the toy would be legal in the UK, but wouldn't be able to be sold in the EU.

At the moment, most manufacturers label goods with a 'CE' logo, to show it conforms to relevant EN standards. They might additionally label it UL to show it complies with US electrical safety standards.

In my mind, there is nothing wrong with the EN product standards and can't see us deviating from complying with them as we do now.

Your Cookie example may be different and that might be the type of thing that can be changed here, with little external effect.

Compliance with European product standards was never a big issue for me personally, and I don't think it featured for many people. The Leave campaign did sometimes harp on about european red tape and rules on bananas etc.

The biggies are surely actual legislation. Human rights, employment law etc. They will need to feature in manifestos and in voters minds, in future.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

-Matt

After the Repeal Bill, we'll still have to comply with European Toy Directive EN xyz.

In my mind, there is nothing wrong with the EN product standards and can't see us deviating from complying with them as we do now.

Your Cookie example may be different and that might be the type of thing that can be changed here, with little external effect.

The biggies are surely actual legislation. Human rights, employment law etc. They will need to feature in manifestos and in voters minds, in future."

OK, glad to see I mostly understood it correctly with the example I gave. As for the 'biggies' you mention, human rights, employment law etc... I am guessing that the main issue with them is that they are designed to work in conjunction with the ECJ as an arbitrator for disputes. If we don't have the ECJ then I guess the process will need to change a bit.

-Matt

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

-Matt"

The content of thise laws will be C+P into British law initially, and the final arbiter would be the high court.

I imagine human rights will be something on the agenda soon after leaving the eu as that was a contentious one, whether British courts or ecj were arbiters.

The British parties might even start being more unique in their proposals in future.

What happens to those laws might even be the subject of a forum discussion in the future....

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