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Scottish independence

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Today it is the d day for the second referendum voting, how do you reckon it will go? I think it will go through

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By *immyXXMan
over a year ago

Pontypridd

Completely bored of it,, the snap will keep trying to find excuses to bang on about it, let's face it they have absolutely nothing else to say, a totally power hungry woman that probably wants to be called president!! If they do have the referendum and it's a no AGAIN!!!! Will she go gracefully like mr salmon, or will she keep looking for excuses to have another!!! Even Scottish people are bored of it, it's just remainers trying to get their own back on democratic leave voters,, what a basis to build a new country!!

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

In 2014, the Scots had a referendum to make Scotland independent and thus take Scotland out of the EU.

Now they want a referendum to make Scotland independent and to stop in the EU!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im sure Mercury wont mind me putting up my comments and his reply from a previous thread on this;

I feel it gives a fair comment on why Scotland is seeking another referendum;

.

"Independence; why its being asked today.

Nicola Sturgeon’s speech at Bute House last Monday in effect challenged Theresa May to give Scotland, which voted in favour of remaining in the EU by 62% to 38%, special access to the single market and substantial new powers or face a second Scottish independence referendum.

Why is the first minister doing this?

Sturgeon argued that last year’s Scottish National party election manifesto gives her a mandate to press for a new independence vote if “a significant or material change” in Scotland’s constitutional position occurred, such as the rest of the UK voting to leave the EU while Scotland voted to stay.

Nicola Sturgeon expected to set out plan for Scottish independence vote

She spoke at the first minister’s official residence in Edinburgh rather than at last weekend’s SNP spring conference in Aberdeen because she needs to appeal to pro-EU Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative voters, who could prefer independence in Europe to Brexit, to ensure she can win a referendum.

Sturgeon believes the imminent decision by May’s government in London to invoke article 50 gives her a strong opportunity to set the political agenda in Scotland.

What do the polls show?

The latest opinion polls have mixed messages for Sturgeon. They show a recent rise in support for independence from 45% up to 49%, excluding don’t knows. In statistical terms, no and yes are effectively neck and neck

The polls also show about a third of SNP voters backed leave in the EU referendum. Sturgeon needs to persuade a large majority of them to back independence in Europe but also attract non-nationalist voters to back it to be sure of winning.

The polls also show a majority of Scottish voters object to a referendum before the UK leaves the EU, because they need to know what they are voting for and against. Sturgeon therefore has to justify any decision to stage one before Brexit

What is the constitutional position?

Sturgeon acknowledged the Scottish parliament does not have the legal authority to stage a poll under the UK’s referendum legislation. She plans to ask for Holyrood’s backing TODAY to seek that approval under a section 30 order of the Scotland Act. She expects to command a narrow majority if all six Scottish Green MSPs vote alongside the 63 SNP members.

The UK and Scottish governments will then need to sign a second “Edinburgh agreement” which in 2012 set up the 2014 independence referendum, before asking the Electoral Commission to adjudicate on the question to be set. Sturgeon said on Monday she favoured retaining the single “yes” or “no” question from September 2014: “Should Scotland be an independent country?” But there will be strong pressure to adopt the method used in the 2016 EU referendum, to present two “leave” or “remain” options such as should Scotland leave the UK or remain in the UK?

These talks will trigger a major battle over the vote’s timing, on whether the referendum should happen before or after Brexit, or indeed whether a third option, such as Labour and Lib Dem demands for a federal UK, could be added.

What will the EU say and do?

The bigger question of when and how an independent Scotland could join the EU or retain its membership is extremely uncertain: there is no precedent for part of a member state retaining membership when the member state leaves.

The EU may insist it cannot start considering a Scottish bid until after Brexit, so it knows what terms Scotland is joining under because questions about cross-border trade, tariffs and access to UK waters will be key issues for other EU member states.

There will be disagreements in the EU. Many MEPs, including the European parliament’s Brexit chief Guy Verhofstadt and senior figures in key EU member states, have been openly sympathetic to Scotland’s pro-European stance.

Despite Sturgeon’s belief that winning a pre-Brexit referendum will smooth an independent Scotland’s transition to rejoining the single market in some form, the European commission is sticking to its stance in 2014 that an application can only be made once Scotland has fully left the UK – a process that could take several years.

What about the economics?

Scotland’s financial position is worse than it was in 2014. The collapse in oil prices increased the public spending deficit last year to £15bn, or more than 20% of annual government spending; Scotland’s economy is growing more slowly than the UK’s and its exports to the rest of the EU are not growing as fast as to the rest of the UK.

Sturgeon has to answer critical questions on which currency Scotland would use and whether it will need to accept the euro in future; on setting up a new central bank; on tackling its massive deficit; on repaying Scotland’s share of the UK’s £1.7tn debt; and on how it can have free trade on equal terms simultaneously with the UK and the EU.

Much will rest on the shape of the UK’s Brexit deal with the EU. Sturgeon pointed out last Monday at the favourable open border deal on the cards for the Republic of Ireland, which has been underpinned by a common travel area deal for decades.

“There’s absolutely no reason that would or should change if Scotland became an independent country,”. Sturgeon added that if May is confident the UK will have free trade deals with all its trading partners post-Brexit, Scotland would also expect one too.

So Today, Wednesday is the Day that the Scottish Government votes. Theminority SNP government is asking the Scottish Parliament to back its plans to ask Westminster for a section 30 order, which is needed to make a referendum legally binding.

The government is expected todays vote with the support of the Scottish Greens - despite opposition from the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats.

I hope this is a non-biased description and would be interested in your views of what the future may or may not hold

"

A good summary. If everything was milk and honey in Scotland, then I can see a case for Independence but if NS gets this section 30, then every other party in Scotland is going to expose every weakness, every bad decision made by NS.

Do you think that the time is right, or is NS just riding the uncertain Brexit wave here?

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

What the EU will do is clearly laid out here, https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership_en These rules on accession have been in use for some time now. An independent Scotland would need to apply and go through the same process as any other country. Do say otherwise would be pure speculation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What the EU will do is clearly laid out here, https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership_en These rules on accession have been in use for some time now. An independent Scotland would need to apply and go through the same process as any other country. Do say otherwise would be pure speculation."

The bigger question of when and how an independent Scotland could join the EU or retain its membership is extremely uncertain: there is no precedent for part of a member state retaining membership when the member state leaves.

There is nothing in writing on this and a clause of uncertainty; nothing is as black as white as it appears in your link;

I do believe we will all realise this over the next year or two

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I would hazard a guess at least 5 years, maybe even a decade.

That's why NS is desperate for a referendum whilst we are still in the EU, in the hope that she could carry some "Grandfather" rights over.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Yes there is, here is a link to a letter from Viviane Reding the Vice president of the European Commission Justice, Fundamental rights and Citizenship to Christina McKelvie, Convener of the European and External Affairs Committee on that very subject. https://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

your link does not open

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

This forum does not allow direct links, copy and paste it in your browser. Note the middle paragraph.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/03/17 16:09:04]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This forum does not allow direct links, copy and paste it in your browser. Note the middle paragraph.

"

its written by a unionist

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

A European Unionist? Any thoughts on the content of the letter?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A European Unionist? Any thoughts on the content of the letter?"

eh no; here is what he says - an extract:

.

I should first make my own position clear, since I am a Scot living in Scotland, and I

will be one of those entitled to vote in the Referendum. I am a moderate unionist in

the sense that I still believe in the United Kingdom and believe that Scotland should

remain part of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today it is the d day for the second referendum voting, how do you reckon it will go? I think it will go through "

It has been suspended until tomorrow due to the incident at Westminster

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Speaking as an English person stay if you want or just go and stop pissing about we have more things to worry about. We see it as you want your cake and eat it. Time to put this to bed and get on with more important things

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Exactly what are you referring to, is it the letter from V Reding?

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

We thought it was put to bed in the "once in a generation/lifetime" referendum in 2014 when over 2 million voted to remain a part of the United Kingdom. The snp are not Scotland, they are hijacking Unionist voters who voted to remain in the EU to then assert that this is support for independence. I assure you, it is not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today it is the d day for the second referendum voting, how do you reckon it will go? I think it will go through

It has been suspended until tomorrow due to the incident at Westminster"
That is right it have, it gives them more time and maibe an advantage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We thought it was put to bed in the "once in a generation/lifetime" referendum in 2014 when over 2 million voted to remain a part of the United Kingdom. The snp are not Scotland, they are hijacking Unionist voters who voted to remain in the EU to then assert that this is support for independence. I assure you, it is not."

Who is the "WE" you are referring to?

Is is you and the Muppet kezia dugdale?

You and Ruth Davidson, or willie rennie

none have good standing in Scotland.

And you will realise it is not only the SNP shouting for independence so why single them out

The people of Scotland will decide

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The reason I am singling out the snp on this issue is that the current debate is due to the snp minority governments proposal to seek a section 30 order of the Scotland act 1998, so they can legislate to hold one. Its is their responsibility, no one elses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The reason I am singling out the snp on this issue is that the current debate is due to the snp minority governments proposal to seek a section 30 order of the Scotland act 1998, so they can legislate to hold one. Its is their responsibility, no one elses.

"

you just love that word "minority" ehhh

and its not much of a minority, there is no other party close to them or indeed a threat

and whys that?

because the people of Scotland voted them in after reading their manifesto

cant deny that fact ehhh

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The fact that they are a minority government, the fact that the greens, who will vote with the snp minority government despite having a manifesto that stated that before they would do such a thing, they would seek a petition from one million voters on the electoral role. Making Patrick Harvie look like a stooge for the snp. The man and his party are complete hypocrites, his statement that “If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculation of party political advantage" rings quite hollow now. This is not the will of the people, it is the will of a minority government elected by 25% of the electorate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

SNP and Ukip Same thing just different colours riding on the wave of populism wake up and think of the the big picture

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Did you read the letter from V Reding? Any thoughts?

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire


"SNP and Ukip Same thing just different colours riding on the wave of populism wake up and think of the the big picture "
Two cheeks of the same arse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"SNP and Ukip Same thing just different colours riding on the wave of populism wake up and think of the the big picture "

that wave of populism has been flowing high from 1975 onwards

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The fact that they are a minority government, the fact that the greens, who will vote with the snp minority government despite having a manifesto that stated that before they would do such a thing, they would seek a petition from one million voters on the electoral role. Making Patrick Harvie look like a stooge for the snp. The man and his party are complete hypocrites, his statement that “If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculation of party political advantage" rings quite hollow now. This is not the will of the people, it is the will of a minority government elected by 25% of the electorate."

Get a grip!

I wouldn't want to think of you as one of those Union Jack waving, Nazi salute giving neo Fascists that celebrated the result of the last Independence result in George Square but you're increasingly sounding like it.

You know perfectly well that the voting setup for the Scottish Parliament was constructed in such a way as to give no one party an overall majority. The fact that the SNP achieved this in the last parliament shows their level of support. Have you also forgotten that every single Scottish seat at Westminster bar 3 went to the SNP at the last General Election. If Holyrood was elected in the same way as Westminster I don't doubt the SNP would have an unassailable majority. There is absolutely no point in saying 'only 25% of the electorate' because you're never going to get a 100% turn out. They were elected by the people that bothered to turn up and vote as were the Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and, yes, even the Green MSP's who all got less votes. That's how it works.

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By *anky-pankyMan
over a year ago

Cumbernauld

Watched a eejit from Scottish numpty party yesterday. A good remainer whose north east constituency had been decimated by the common fisheries policy where HIS people's boats were scrapped to allow Spain to build super-hovers to clean up EU fishing grounds.

This clown cited Gibraltar (big fishing fleet???) As being outwith the common fisherry policy inferring that Scotland would be able to do the same.

Aye I can imagine that.

Hans Franco Manuel et all falling over themselves to accommodate the wants of this great partner in the superstate.

Get a grip of yourself man..

Disgusted lifelong ex SNP Supporter

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"The fact that they are a minority government, the fact that the greens, who will vote with the snp minority government despite having a manifesto that stated that before they would do such a thing, they would seek a petition from one million voters on the electoral role. Making Patrick Harvie look like a stooge for the snp. The man and his party are complete hypocrites, his statement that “If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculation of party political advantage" rings quite hollow now. This is not the will of the people, it is the will of a minority government elected by 25% of the electorate.

Get a grip!

I wouldn't want to think of you as one of those Union Jack waving, Nazi salute giving neo Fascists that celebrated the result of the last Independence result in George Square but you're increasingly sounding like it.

You know perfectly well that the voting setup for the Scottish Parliament was constructed in such a way as to give no one party an overall majority. The fact that the SNP achieved this in the last parliament shows their level of support. Have you also forgotten that every single Scottish seat at Westminster bar 3 went to the SNP at the last General Election. If Holyrood was elected in the same way as Westminster I don't doubt the SNP would have an unassailable majority. There is absolutely no point in saying 'only 25% of the electorate' because you're never going to get a 100% turn out. They were elected by the people that bothered to turn up and vote as were the Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and, yes, even the Green MSP's who all got less votes. That's how it works. "

If the 2015 GE had been run under a PR system, then the SNP would have got 31 seats in parliament. UKIP would have had 82 seats!

Just a fact, not an opinion!

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Tina, instead of smearing me as a nazi, could you try and refute what I post using facts rather than resort to Ad hominem. No amount of unfounded insults will silence me on this issue.

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

Independence vote got suspended because of the attack in Westminster this evening.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Gotta love the unionists and their interpretation of democracy.

And no, the UK is not a great example of a functioning democracy - is it?

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"The fact that they are a minority government, the fact that the greens, who will vote with the snp minority government despite having a manifesto that stated that before they would do such a thing, they would seek a petition from one million voters on the electoral role. Making Patrick Harvie look like a stooge for the snp. The man and his party are complete hypocrites, his statement that “If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculation of party political advantage" rings quite hollow now. This is not the will of the people, it is the will of a minority government elected by 25% of the electorate."

Ha ha, very good, but not worth the effort of a serious response.

Is your name perhaps David Mundell or fellow tory Murdo Fraser?

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

In other words, you have no response.

But the fact that you play the man not the ball says much for your argument, if only you had one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There will be a debate this morning to decide on whether the vote will be postponed until next week, or if it will go ahead today in our Great Scottish Parliament

.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The fact that they are a minority government, the fact that the greens, who will vote with the snp minority government despite having a manifesto that stated that before they would do such a thing, they would seek a petition from one million voters on the electoral role. Making Patrick Harvie look like a stooge for the snp. The man and his party are complete hypocrites, his statement that “If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculation of party political advantage" rings quite hollow now. This is not the will of the people, it is the will of a minority government elected by 25% of the electorate.

Get a grip!

I wouldn't want to think of you as one of those Union Jack waving, Nazi salute giving neo Fascists that celebrated the result of the last Independence result in George Square but you're increasingly sounding like it.

You know perfectly well that the voting setup for the Scottish Parliament was constructed in such a way as to give no one party an overall majority. The fact that the SNP achieved this in the last parliament shows their level of support. Have you also forgotten that every single Scottish seat at Westminster bar 3 went to the SNP at the last General Election. If Holyrood was elected in the same way as Westminster I don't doubt the SNP would have an unassailable majority. There is absolutely no point in saying 'only 25% of the electorate' because you're never going to get a 100% turn out. They were elected by the people that bothered to turn up and vote as were the Labour, Tory, Lib Dem and, yes, even the Green MSP's who all got less votes. That's how it works.

If the 2015 GE had been run under a PR system, then the SNP would have got 31 seats in parliament. UKIP would have had 82 seats!

Just a fact, not an opinion! "

I'm not disputing that. What I'm trying to point out is that were the Scottish Parliament elected on a first past the post system like Westminster, the SNP would have a majority.

Despite the fact I loath UKIP and all it stands for I also believe that PR is a better, more representative means of electing MPs.

My argument was intended to counter the claim that 'only 25% of the Scottish electorate' voted SNP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Tina, instead of smearing me as a nazi, could you try and refute what I post using facts rather than resort to Ad hominem. No amount of unfounded insults will silence me on this issue."

Firstly, I didn't smear you as a Nazi, I said 'I wouldn't want to compare you' to a rabid group of Unionists that gave Nazi salutes. Not exactly the same thing, is it?

As for countering you rather poor argument, I did try to point out that there is not point in claiming 'only 25%' of the electorate voted SNP and the reasons why it is irrelevant.

You're the one taking the usual Unionist 'King Canute'view of the rising tide.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

TUESDAY 28th MARCH

is the new date of when the vote will take place.

The greens have cancelled their "Time Spot" for questions to enable this vote to take place.

So Tuesday next week will allow section 30 to be requested

Wednesday will be article 50

another exciting week ahead

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Yet that is exactly what you did in associating me with thugs in George Square and the nazis. I considered it a deliberate smear and I find it offensive not just to me personally but to the millions of victims across Europe who suffered at the most heinous criminal state in history. It was unnecessary, unfounded and uncalled for, we may disagree but lets not be disagreeable. My "poor argument" as you put it, was highlighting the fact that the snp claim they speak for Scotland, when in fact they only speak for 25% of it. People in the rest of the UK should realise this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I cannot understand the argument here. The solution is very simple - have a vote and let the SCOTTISH PEOPLE decide what they want. Whoever wins takes the country forward in the best way they can. Until you have a vote nobody knows - opinion poll's cannot be relied on anymore.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have a vote again but they well not stop till they get the result they want. It's all crap SNP are a one trick pony your UKIP good luck keep voting for them

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"The fact that they are a minority government, the fact that the greens, who will vote with the snp minority government despite having a manifesto that stated that before they would do such a thing, they would seek a petition from one million voters on the electoral role. Making Patrick Harvie look like a stooge for the snp. The man and his party are complete hypocrites, his statement that “If a new referendum is to happen, it should come about by the will of the people, and not be driven by calculation of party political advantage" rings quite hollow now. This is not the will of the people, it is the will of a minority government elected by 25% of the electorate."

You do know even if all 6 Green MSP#s abstain the vote will still pass with SNP 63 MSP's As all pro union parites in Scotland will only get 60 in total

And even that to try and go down the Green manifesto crap is unreal as the Tories clearly said in their 2015 manifesto to keep the single market so why the hell does no one care about that wee broken promise from the Tories

So am interested in knowing this who does speak for Scotland ? As people seem to think Nicola doesnt and the SNP doesnt so who does speak for Scotland ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

SNP are the only political party that puts the interests of Scotland first.

that's it, full stop.

No other party in the UK does this, many may disagree with SNP, I certainly object to many things they do, especially gun control, but again they are the only party that puts the interests of Scotland first.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/03/17 09:41:11]

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

My mentioning of the green manifesto is "crap" yet you mention tory manifesto in return. Is that double standards? The greens are just the same as the tories then? Are they both liars.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"My mentioning of the green manifesto is "crap" yet you mention tory manifesto in return. Is that double standards? The greens are just the same as the tories then? Are they both liars. "

So a pro indy party is not allowed to vote to allow an independence referendum to happen when that party is also pro EU.

The thing is the Tories who as of this moment are the UK government promised to keep the single market now they dont care and no one seems to care about that its leave the EU at any cost.

The Scottish people have the right to decide on if they thing the brexit deal is good for them of if they prefer a independent Scotland.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The people decided, take it up with them. Unless you think they should disregard the vote and carry on.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"The people decided, take it up with them. Unless you think they should disregard the vote and carry on. "

No i think you will see i said the Scottish people should have the right to decide on if we agree on the brexit deal or if Scotland should be an independent country.

i see the unionist parties are claiming the SNP have no mandate for a 2nd independence referendum how low will they go before they get wiped out in Scotland. They must love taking the pish out of themselves by claiming the SNP have no mandate are they then saying they have a mandate in Scotland as i could have swore in the Scottish elections in 2016 none of the unionist parties got voted in as the government therefore they have no mandate and on Tuesday with or without the Greens a 2nd independence referendum will in Holyrood and there is the clear mandate the Scottish government will have and for an unelected PM to block it offtt that would be unwise as she does not stand on a manifesto of her own and NO mandate it plays into the SNP and YES movements hands.

You can see how shite feart the Tories are cling on to any old piss to stop independence the EU were clear 18 monthst which would be OCT 2018 and that is well within the time the SNP plan to hold another referedendum so people in Scotland will know the final deal on brexit.

The Tories have gone and fucked up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the Scottish government has not been consulted over whether Scotland's interests will be represented during brexit, what role the Scottish government will play in negotiations (None), nor which powers the Tories intend to take for Westminster (all) and which powers will be determined by Holyrood (none)

Teresa May is coming up to Scotland today, I think I will head to Edinburgh, and give her a protest welcome outside Parliament and hold a ScotRef banner, seems a nice sunny day for it.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

We voted as individuals not as a country. The vote was on the UK,s EU status not Scotlands.

Trouble with having a vote on it is we might reject the Brexit deal and then choose to stay with UK.

Then where will we be?

The snp cannot offer EU membership as we don't comply with the rules of accession, so what do they have to offer except independence?

Independence outside both the UK and the EU is the worst possible outcome and would be an absolute disaster for Scotland.

But as we know the snp do say that inependence transcends all, we know EU exit is just an excuse.

And the PM is elected, as she is an MP. Just like St Nicola when she inherited ecks job after his humiliation when Scotland rejected his doomed referendum.

I, d be interested to know, who did you vote for to be PM?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We voted as individuals not as a country. The vote was on the UK,s EU status not Scotlands.

Trouble with having a vote on it is we might reject the Brexit deal and then choose to stay with UK.

Then where will we be?

The snp cannot offer EU membership as we don't comply with the rules of accession, so what do they have to offer except independence?

Independence outside both the UK and the EU is the worst possible outcome and would be an absolute disaster for Scotland.

But as we know the snp do say that inependence transcends all, we know EU exit is just an excuse.

And the PM is elected, as she is an MP. Just like St Nicola when she inherited ecks job after his humiliation when Scotland rejected his doomed referendum.

I, d be interested to know, who did you vote for to be PM? "

I live in Scotland, I voted for the SNP, you know as I know, the snp are the only party who have Scotlands interests at heart and put Scotland first.

I may not agree with all their policies, especially their views on firearm Law, but I do know they are the only party who put Scotland's interests first, unlike Scottish Labour & Conservative Ruth.

Does anyone actually believe Ruth Davidson or Kezia Dugdale could do a better job as first minister of Scotland, they are simply puppets for their Westminster masters

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tell me why do some scots want independence? Specifically I mean!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Tell me why do some scots want independence? Specifically I mean!"

A wish to see the countries of Scotland and England stand together as equals.

“There is a difference between partnership and subordination – the first encourages mutual respect, the second breeds resentment.”

What is wrong with an Independent Scotland working along with England as two equals, as partners a truly "United" UK

as equals.

no if's

no buts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Equals i get, however there has to be some sense of realism here, Wales can never be equal to England in the terms you look for.

Were a small country with a very small percentage of the population//GDP of England, we get for that a smaller representative in Westminster, thats just part of how things work, in Wales were a country of many parties plaid cymru , labour and even Tories and ukip.

The biggest problem appears to be Scotland politically is completely different to England and this has caused a great divide between Westminster governance in Scotland, it seems to have to choices if Scotland truly desires to be governed by a socialist government then it must unfortunately vote for independence or get used to not having a left wing government.

The big countrys always carry more weight, its like that in the EU and its like that globally

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"We voted as individuals not as a country. The vote was on the UK,s EU status not Scotlands.

Trouble with having a vote on it is we might reject the Brexit deal and then choose to stay with UK.

Then where will we be?

The snp cannot offer EU membership as we don't comply with the rules of accession, so what do they have to offer except independence?

Independence outside both the UK and the EU is the worst possible outcome and would be an absolute disaster for Scotland.

But as we know the snp do say that inependence transcends all, we know EU exit is just an excuse.

And the PM is elected, as she is an MP. Just like St Nicola when she inherited ecks job after his humiliation when Scotland rejected his doomed referendum.

I, d be interested to know, who did you vote for to be PM? "

Right so is Scotland majority of 62% of remain voters being listened too by the PM ? I thought she said before she triggered article 50 she will look for a UK wide agreement Scotland doesnt NOT agree with her plans to leave the single market how is that listening and respecting our votes ?

No She is NOT elected tell me what manifesto she stands on ? She does not have a mandate that is very clear. The problem is Nicola was elected in 2016 when the SNP won the Scottish election

Its getting boring listening to this it was a UK vote yes thats true it was a UK vote but lets take a walk down memory lane back in 2014 the NO camp said vote NO and EU will be safe in the UK now fast forward to the present day and the EU is no longer safe in the UK so the Scottish people have every right to decide on what they want as the NO camp have broken their promise that the EU would be safe in the UK No voters have every right to change their minds.

I dont get the big deal anyone that is pro union will still get to vote no in another independence referendum if thats what you want but you cant tell people they cant change their minds on independence if that think its the better opinion nothing wrong will finding out what the Tories have planned for brexit and then let the Scottish people decide on whats better in the UK out of the EU of an independent Scotland in the EU.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Scotland did not vote as a country, it was individuals that voted. And they voted on the UK,s status in the EU not Scotlands.

YOU are convieniently forgetting the 2 million that voted to stay in the UK. And we knew full well at the time that the EU ref was likely, even the snp white paper warned of it.

And you, presumably, a yes voter voted yes knowing that our EU membership status would have ceased on the day of independence, that would have been in March last year.

Leaving the EU never bothered you then so why the faux concern now?

And what exactly is the point of the next vote?

I see it, it's a choice between a so called hard brexit (worst case scenario) versus an equally hard Scottish exit from both the EU and the UK.

That's based on known facts.

It offers isolation and no prospect of rejoining the EU in the near future. A decade at least maybe.

Who in their right mind would vote for that?

And we haven't even started on the general economy, which has weakened significantly since the last on.

No one votes to be worse off. Scotland certainly wouldn't. It's not that daft or blinded to facts by the nationalist cultists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

LOL "the FEAR Factor"

yeh, us Scots are shitting bricks

lol

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Just being realistic and not buying in to the everything will be alright on the night nonsense.

Did you read the V Reding letter?

I await your thoughts on it.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Scotland did not vote as a country, it was individuals that voted. And they voted on the UK,s status in the EU not Scotlands.

YOU are convieniently forgetting the 2 million that voted to stay in the UK. And we knew full well at the time that the EU ref was likely, even the snp white paper warned of it.

And you, presumably, a yes voter voted yes knowing that our EU membership status would have ceased on the day of independence, that would have been in March last year.

Leaving the EU never bothered you then so why the faux concern now?

And what exactly is the point of the next vote?

I see it, it's a choice between a so called hard brexit (worst case scenario) versus an equally hard Scottish exit from both the EU and the UK.

That's based on known facts.

It offers isolation and no prospect of rejoining the EU in the near future. A decade at least maybe.

Who in their right mind would vote for that?

And we haven't even started on the general economy, which has weakened significantly since the last on.

No one votes to be worse off. Scotland certainly wouldn't. It's not that daft or blinded to facts by the nationalist cultists.

"

That 2 million you are on about were told a no vote would mean the EU would be safe in the UK now its not safe in the UK and those no voters are allowed to change their minds if they want.

In 2014 none from the unionists were going about telling people there will be a EU referendum they were they going about telling people to vote no to make sure the EU would be safe in the UK.

Again scare stories in 2014 a yes vote would not mean being out of the EU again if there was a yes vote in 2014 there would have been 2 years of talks with the UK and the EU so to say anyone would know 100% what those talks would have been at the very end must have some amount of powers that they can see into the future.

Never bothered me ? No i have always been pro EU yes it needs reformed no doubt on that but the EU do alot of good things hell the EU didnt privatise alot of things in the UK that would be Westminster governments doing that.

Have you seen the EU chiefs saying they would welcome a independent Scotland and fast track Scotland in the EU ? The union as in the UK is running out of scare stories and i find it sad that all the UK pro unionist parties have got to offer is to put Scotland down and tell us we need the broad shoulders of the UK to help us out that would be the UK that is in trillions of debt and that UK government is only adding to the debt by borrowing more and more and not meeting targets.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Scotland did not vote as a country, it was individuals that voted. And they voted on the UK,s status in the EU not Scotlands.

YOU are convieniently forgetting the 2 million that voted to stay in the UK. And we knew full well at the time that the EU ref was likely, even the snp white paper warned of it.

And you, presumably, a yes voter voted yes knowing that our EU membership status would have ceased on the day of independence, that would have been in March last year.

Leaving the EU never bothered you then so why the faux concern now?

And what exactly is the point of the next vote?

I see it, it's a choice between a so called hard brexit (worst case scenario) versus an equally hard Scottish exit from both the EU and the UK.

That's based on known facts.

It offers isolation and no prospect of rejoining the EU in the near future. A decade at least maybe.

Who in their right mind would vote for that?

And we haven't even started on the general economy, which has weakened significantly since the last on.

No one votes to be worse off. Scotland certainly wouldn't. It's not that daft or blinded to facts by the nationalist cultists.

That 2 million you are on about were told a no vote would mean the EU would be safe in the UK now its not safe in the UK and those no voters are allowed to change their minds if they want.

In 2014 none from the unionists were going about telling people there will be a EU referendum they were they going about telling people to vote no to make sure the EU would be safe in the UK.

Again scare stories in 2014 a yes vote would not mean being out of the EU again if there was a yes vote in 2014 there would have been 2 years of talks with the UK and the EU so to say anyone would know 100% what those talks would have been at the very end must have some amount of powers that they can see into the future.

Never bothered me ? No i have always been pro EU yes it needs reformed no doubt on that but the EU do alot of good things hell the EU didnt privatise alot of things in the UK that would be Westminster governments doing that.

Have you seen the EU chiefs saying they would welcome a independent Scotland and fast track Scotland in the EU ? The union as in the UK is running out of scare stories and i find it sad that all the UK pro unionist parties have got to offer is to put Scotland down and tell us we need the broad shoulders of the UK to help us out that would be the UK that is in trillions of debt and that UK government is only adding to the debt by borrowing more and more and not meeting targets. "

Remember

There is no oil in Scotland

Reported new finds today are lies

Fake News

Fake News

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Also as this is a debate and i love hearing people's opinions

So anyone that is pro union why is it you dont want a 2nd independence referendum and want it blocked you will get the chance to vote no again if you believe that the UK is what you would rather but by saying there shouldnt be one and it should be blocked your denying other people a vote that may have changed their minds as they are allowed to change their minds there could be no voters out their that would now back independence and yeah there could be yes voters that now back the UK but no one should ever deny someone a right to change their minds.

Once the vote comes in in favor in Holyrood for a section 30 order to be gained to allow another referendum then it shouldnt be blocked and should be allowed to go ahead when the Scottish government have planned and that would be round about when everyone will know the final deal on brexit to deny Scottish people a vote on if we agree on brexit or that we prefer an independent Scotland is so wrong is pretty much is a dictatorship.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was wondering today if anyone had ever proposed an economic union of the celtic nations in the past.One of Ireland scotland and wales and maybe Cornwall. .

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

I think it damages Scotland for investment as who knows what the future economic landscape would look like. Granted Brexit doesn't help, nor would another indy ref.

It would just be pouring petrol on an already burning fire.

And I don't think the people actually want one, the snp had a national survey recently and haven't even shared the results of it. Now I find that strange, if it was positive they would produce it and would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that it is forgotten and swept under the carpet speaks volumes.

Their silence on it is deafening.

We had one, a once in a generation/lifetime referendum that asked if we wished to be independent. We responded with the greatest turnout in history to return a no vote.

We wanted to stay in the UK.

A decisive result to be respected. We hoped.

Why are those over 2 million voters being ignored?

Conflating two different referenda to form the opinion that the 2 million have changed their minds is ludicrous and there is no evidence to support it.

A no vote was a no vote, a remain vote was to remain.

A remain vote was not a vote for Scottish independence. And should not be taken as such.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesnt really matter what pro indy or pro unionists think we were lied to in last referendum and now no matter what anyone says we will have another one ,maybe the tories should have kept there word and this wouldnt be coming back so soon to bite their arses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it damages Scotland for investment as who knows what the future economic landscape would look like. Granted Brexit doesn't help, nor would another indy ref.

It would just be pouring petrol on an already burning fire.

And I don't think the people actually want one, the snp had a national survey recently and haven't even shared the results of it. Now I find that strange, if it was positive they would produce it and would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that it is forgotten and swept under the carpet speaks volumes.

Their silence on it is deafening.

We had one, a once in a generation/lifetime referendum that asked if we wished to be independent. We responded with the greatest turnout in history to return a no vote.

We wanted to stay in the UK.

A decisive result to be respected. We hoped.

Why are those over 2 million voters being ignored?

Conflating two different referenda to form the opinion that the 2 million have changed their minds is ludicrous and there is no evidence to support it.

A no vote was a no vote, a remain vote was to remain.

A remain vote was not a vote for Scottish independence. And should not be taken as such. "

Well, lets just not bother voting for anything ever again!

What an idiotic suggestion.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The national survey the SNP do not have to release it. They paid for it.

Also the polls do tell a different story i love the one when pro union supporters claim polls dont show support for independence and another referendum yet strange those same supporters seem to want to ignore the ones that say 50% / 50%.

Remember Ruth Davidson roamed the streets with her wee petition to stop a 2nd referendum why has she not released how many signed that ? You see it swings both ways.

Ah right so we had a referendum thats means never have one again ? Lets just stop future elections while we are at it.

The no vote is not being ignored it was a no vote in 2014 but things have changed and as i said people are allowed to change their minds you cant deny someone's right to change their minds just like people change their minds on which party to vote for in an election they have every right to do that so why deny people a right to change their minds on independence ?

A remain vote in Scotland should be repected if the UK government are not going to respect that then the Scottish people have every right to decide on if they like the brexit deal or an independent Scotland in the EU

the big picture is people are allowed to change their minds and should not be denied that right or it only goes to prove its a dictatorship in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When scotland becomes independent are we entitled to the same percentage of uk assets ? Surley we should be if we have to pay our part of the uk debt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When scotland becomes independent are we entitled to the same percentage of uk assets ? Surley we should be if we have to pay our part of the uk debt "

yes indeed

that has already been agreed, we also keep the oil, which should not worry anyone, because Westminster says there is none, so they cant whinge when we keep it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When scotland becomes independent are we entitled to the same percentage of uk assets ? Surley we should be if we have to pay our part of the uk debt

yes indeed

that has already been agreed, we also keep the oil, which should not worry anyone, because Westminster says there is none, so they cant whinge when we keep it"
.

Were only waiting for you to piss off with your free everything and then we'll frack that trillion barrels that are under London according to another oil company??

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

There is an international agreement that covers the oil reserves, and Scotland would be entitled to 91% of it.

How it extracts it is another matter of course. Keeping with the status quo, it would allow multi-nationals to extract it and just collect the tax revenue.

But, oil will only be extracted if it's financially viable to do so. The world is awash with oil at the moment, I believe that the USA stockpiled 533 million barrels last month, and that drives prices down. Therefore, less tax revenue.

Environmental concerns also will come to bear. Has NS told the good people that live on the Clyde estuary, that as soon as the Royal Navy gets kicked out of Faslane, that their idyllic views of the Clyde are going to be blighted with oil drilling platforms?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum? "

No.....

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum? "

And of course if you don't like it here you can always bugger off back to Sweden......

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

No....."
I guess it depends of how they view democracy.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum? "

No one has denied it. Any referendum is legally a "reserved" issue which means it's the UK Parliament's right to grant one at the "time of their choosing".

As I've said all along, Scotland will not get a legally binding referendum until 2021.

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

No.....I guess it depends of how they view democracy."

As I said, if you really believe we are turning into a dictatorship then why stay here?.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

No one has denied it. Any referendum is legally a "reserved" issue which means it's the UK Parliament's right to grant one at the "time of their choosing".

As I've said all along, Scotland will not get a legally binding referendum until 2021."
That is good, so few more more years.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum? "

Yes is the answer. When one country votes to elect a party on a manifesto policy that if a change happens then it should have the right call a referendum that is a mandate

I will ask again if people think the SNP do not speak for Scotland then who do you think then does speak for Scotland ?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Wanting a referendum has nothing to do with the EU,if she lost she would find another excuse a few years down the line,sturgeon just want independence at any price.

She is very similar to Robert Mugabi in that way and look what he did to Zimbabwe!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

Yes is the answer. When one country votes to elect a party on a manifesto policy that if a change happens then it should have the right call a referendum that is a mandate

I will ask again if people think the SNP do not speak for Scotland then who do you think then does speak for Scotland ? "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you spelled theresa maygabe wrongly

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire


"I think it damages Scotland for investment as who knows what the future economic landscape would look like. Granted Brexit doesn't help, nor would another indy ref.

It would just be pouring petrol on an already burning fire.

And I don't think the people actually want one, the snp had a national survey recently and haven't even shared the results of it. Now I find that strange, if it was positive they would produce it and would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that it is forgotten and swept under the carpet speaks volumes.

Their silence on it is deafening.

We had one, a once in a generation/lifetime referendum that asked if we wished to be independent. We responded with the greatest turnout in history to return a no vote.

We wanted to stay in the UK.

A decisive result to be respected. We hoped.

Why are those over 2 million voters being ignored?

Conflating two different referenda to form the opinion that the 2 million have changed their minds is ludicrous and there is no evidence to support it.

A no vote was a no vote, a remain vote was to remain.

A remain vote was not a vote for Scottish independence. And should not be taken as such.

Well, lets just not bother voting for anything ever again!

What an idiotic suggestion."

It was once in a generation/LIFETIME opportunity!

Europe ref in 1975, and another in 2016. Thats a fair bit of time between them. #indyref2 in 40 year?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

Yes is the answer. When one country votes to elect a party on a manifesto policy that if a change happens then it should have the right call a referendum that is a mandate

I will ask again if people think the SNP do not speak for Scotland then who do you think then does speak for Scotland ? "

They are the only party full stop, to put Scotland first and fight for the rights of Scotland

all other parties are run by puppets controlled by Westminster (ruth Davidson, kezia dugdale)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Today; Tuesday 28th March, the topic of conversation will evolve around the number of 69

why is 69 so good today

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today; Tuesday 28th March, the topic of conversation will evolve around the number of 69

why is 69 so good today "

I'm guessing its the number of MSPs voting to hold another independence referendum?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

Yes is the answer. When one country votes to elect a party on a manifesto policy that if a change happens then it should have the right call a referendum that is a mandate

I will ask again if people think the SNP do not speak for Scotland then who do you think then does speak for Scotland ?

They are the only party full stop, to put Scotland first and fight for the rights of Scotland

all other parties are run by puppets controlled by Westminster (ruth Davidson, kezia dugdale)"
.

This is the bit i cant get my head round, Scottish MPs sit in Westminster as a representative of Scottish people, Scotland is part of Westminster, its your government as well as mine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it damages Scotland for investment as who knows what the future economic landscape would look like. Granted Brexit doesn't help, nor would another indy ref.

It would just be pouring petrol on an already burning fire.

And I don't think the people actually want one, the snp had a national survey recently and haven't even shared the results of it. Now I find that strange, if it was positive they would produce it and would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that it is forgotten and swept under the carpet speaks volumes.

Their silence on it is deafening.

We had one, a once in a generation/lifetime referendum that asked if we wished to be independent. We responded with the greatest turnout in history to return a no vote.

We wanted to stay in the UK.

A decisive result to be respected. We hoped.

Why are those over 2 million voters being ignored?

Conflating two different referenda to form the opinion that the 2 million have changed their minds is ludicrous and there is no evidence to support it.

A no vote was a no vote, a remain vote was to remain.

A remain vote was not a vote for Scottish independence. And should not be taken as such.

Well, lets just not bother voting for anything ever again!

What an idiotic suggestion.

It was once in a generation/LIFETIME opportunity!

Europe ref in 1975, and another in 2016. Thats a fair bit of time between them. #indyref2 in 40 year?

"

What part of being lied to dont you get? That is why we are having another one wether unionists like it or not the unionist parties have no one to blame but themselves for bringing it to this ,we will be having a referendum in 2019

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Today; Tuesday 28th March, the topic of conversation will evolve around the number of 69

why is 69 so good today

I'm guessing its the number of MSPs voting to hold another independence referendum?"

indeed

63 snp

6 greens

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

Yes is the answer. When one country votes to elect a party on a manifesto policy that if a change happens then it should have the right call a referendum that is a mandate

I will ask again if people think the SNP do not speak for Scotland then who do you think then does speak for Scotland ?

They are the only party full stop, to put Scotland first and fight for the rights of Scotland

all other parties are run by puppets controlled by Westminster (ruth Davidson, kezia dugdale).

This is the bit i cant get my head round, Scottish MPs sit in Westminster as a representative of Scottish people, Scotland is part of Westminster, its your government as well as mine"

What I can't get my head around is the fact that the SNP won all but 3 of the Scottish seats at the last general election and hold the most seats in the Scottish parliament yet some people still seem to insist that they don't speak for the people of Scotland.

The SNP will never win a majority in the Houses of Parliament as they'll only ever stand in Scottish seats. So how do they then make the voice of the Scottish people whom they represent heard and, more importantly, listened to. At the moment, that's plainly not happening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it damages Scotland for investment as who knows what the future economic landscape would look like. Granted Brexit doesn't help, nor would another indy ref.

It would just be pouring petrol on an already burning fire.

And I don't think the people actually want one, the snp had a national survey recently and haven't even shared the results of it. Now I find that strange, if it was positive they would produce it and would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that it is forgotten and swept under the carpet speaks volumes.

Their silence on it is deafening.

We had one, a once in a generation/lifetime referendum that asked if we wished to be independent. We responded with the greatest turnout in history to return a no vote.

We wanted to stay in the UK.

A decisive result to be respected. We hoped.

Why are those over 2 million voters being ignored?

Conflating two different referenda to form the opinion that the 2 million have changed their minds is ludicrous and there is no evidence to support it.

A no vote was a no vote, a remain vote was to remain.

A remain vote was not a vote for Scottish independence. And should not be taken as such.

Well, lets just not bother voting for anything ever again!

What an idiotic suggestion.

It was once in a generation/LIFETIME opportunity!

Europe ref in 1975, and another in 2016. Thats a fair bit of time between them. #indyref2 in 40 year?

What part of being lied to dont you get? That is why we are having another one wether unionists like it or not the unionist parties have no one to blame but themselves for bringing it to this ,we will be having a referendum in 2019 "
.

All this talk of unionist and nationalist parties, For a minute i thought i was back on that Northern Ireland thread!

Certainly feels like it with some of the rhetoric spouted on here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isnt it the start of dictatorship by denying their right for a referendum?

Yes is the answer. When one country votes to elect a party on a manifesto policy that if a change happens then it should have the right call a referendum that is a mandate

I will ask again if people think the SNP do not speak for Scotland then who do you think then does speak for Scotland ?

They are the only party full stop, to put Scotland first and fight for the rights of Scotland

all other parties are run by puppets controlled by Westminster (ruth Davidson, kezia dugdale).

This is the bit i cant get my head round, Scottish MPs sit in Westminster as a representative of Scottish people, Scotland is part of Westminster, its your government as well as mine

What I can't get my head around is the fact that the SNP won all but 3 of the Scottish seats at the last general election and hold the most seats in the Scottish parliament yet some people still seem to insist that they don't speak for the people of Scotland.

The SNP will never win a majority in the Houses of Parliament as they'll only ever stand in Scottish seats. So how do they then make the voice of the Scottish people whom they represent heard and, more importantly, listened to. At the moment, that's plainly not happening. "
.

Its called representation by numbers, your like what 4 million population? , See you are represented, your just outvoted, thats called democracy, no malice just a simple numbers game, if you had another 47 million people living in Scotland you would be on par voting wise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it damages Scotland for investment as who knows what the future economic landscape would look like. Granted Brexit doesn't help, nor would another indy ref.

It would just be pouring petrol on an already burning fire.

And I don't think the people actually want one, the snp had a national survey recently and haven't even shared the results of it. Now I find that strange, if it was positive they would produce it and would be shouting it from the rooftops. The fact that it is forgotten and swept under the carpet speaks volumes.

Their silence on it is deafening.

We had one, a once in a generation/lifetime referendum that asked if we wished to be independent. We responded with the greatest turnout in history to return a no vote.

We wanted to stay in the UK.

A decisive result to be respected. We hoped.

Why are those over 2 million voters being ignored?

Conflating two different referenda to form the opinion that the 2 million have changed their minds is ludicrous and there is no evidence to support it.

A no vote was a no vote, a remain vote was to remain.

A remain vote was not a vote for Scottish independence. And should not be taken as such.

Well, lets just not bother voting for anything ever again!

What an idiotic suggestion.

It was once in a generation/LIFETIME opportunity!

Europe ref in 1975, and another in 2016. Thats a fair bit of time between them. #indyref2 in 40 year?

What part of being lied to dont you get? That is why we are having another one wether unionists like it or not the unionist parties have no one to blame but themselves for bringing it to this ,we will be having a referendum in 2019 .

All this talk of unionist and nationalist parties, For a minute i thought i was back on that Northern Ireland thread!

Certainly feels like it with some of the rhetoric spouted on here"

Thats just the way it is unionists voting to stay part of uk nationalists wanting independence dont see the big deal about it

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