FabSwingers.com forum: Second Scottish independence referendum

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So, could be here we go again. Thought it was a 'once in a generation' vote last time. Or does that only apply if the result was 'wrong'? Was odd watching Salmond discuss looking forward to the comfort of post independence E.U membership when an independent Scotland, with an horrendous budget deficit, when such membership is far from a forgone conclusion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scotland for independence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah!!

Independance for Scotland!!

England, Wales and Northern Ireland will all be better off. We are going to build a wall and make the Scots pay for it!!

Brought to you by #harmonyintheUK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah!!

Independance for Scotland!!

England, Wales and Northern Ireland will all be better off. We are going to build a wall and make the Scots pay for it!!

Brought to you by #harmonyintheUK.

There already is a wall, them _omans built paid for it years ago then cleared off back home.

#cowboybuilders

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will flights to Edinburgh go up when they build the wall.

I'm going to be travelling North of the Wall later in the year.

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By *elnkazCouple
over a year ago

cheshire

So much for the last "once in a generation" referendum last time.

If Sturgeon gets her wish to hold a second would she and the rest of her SNP cronies finally accept a NO means NO vote

....

Del

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So much for the last "once in a generation" referendum last time.

If Sturgeon gets her wish to hold a second would she and the rest of her SNP cronies finally accept a NO means NO vote

....

Del"

Of course not, what else is the SNP about?

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman
over a year ago

stourbridge area

If they hold a second one .....

Will that mean we will have to have a second vote on leaving the EU .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will they let me in if I tell them my grandad was Scottish?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will they let me in if I tell them my grandad was Scottish?"

Everyone is welcome in Scotland

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

"Will they let me in if I tell them my grandad was Scottish?"

Everyone is welcome ..we are a friendly bunch ..honest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will they let me in if I tell them my grandad was Scottish?"

Yes. But they won't let you out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can I Vote for them to Leave Please ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can I Vote for them to Leave Please ?

Well. I never thought I'd see the day!

I agree with Mr Suit

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

I dont know why people are complaining about them holding a second vote. Clearly the situation has changed massively since the last vote thanks to Brexit. If the circumstances change that much then the Scottish people have a right to have their say on the issue again.

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont know why people are complaining about them holding a second vote. Clearly the situation has changed massively since the last vote thanks to Brexit. If the circumstances change that much then the Scottish people have a right to have their say on the issue again.

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here."
.

Yes it seems obvious that because of brexit you should now shun the biggest trading partner you have ,withdraw the rights of your citizens to travel freely around the UK, drive your country into further political and financial instability and all this so you can greater accountability from your larger neighbour

Nationalisim at its best

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By *iona66TV/TS
over a year ago

Swords

Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!"
.

And welsh

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best"

I...but.....what???

Cant you see...

Ok, you need this spelled out. Ok. I can see that. Let me quote part of your post but with a change to 2 letters.

"shun the biggest trading partner you have ,withdraw the rights of your citizens to travel freely around the EU, drive your country into further political and financial instability and all this so you can greater accountability from your larger neighbour"

You've just summarised all the problems with Brexit.

At least with Scotland they'll (theoretically) stay part of the trading bloc that is the EU so they wont be losing their largest trading partner with nothing in place to replace it.

With the quota system that the WTO operates under Scotland could take over the share the UK has abandoned and would actually be in a very strong position regarding international trade.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!.

And welsh"

Ah, but the Welsh have always been happy to kiss English ass.

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By *elnkazCouple
over a year ago

cheshire

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best"

Totally agree.

Sturgeon says that she has a mandate to hold a second referendum, as Scotland as a whole voted Remain. What happened to the vote No in the first referendum when Scotland voted to stay in the UK, and as the UK we voted for Brexit. Does that mandate not count????

Cake and eat it.....

Del

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best

I...but.....what???

Cant you see...

Ok, you need this spelled out. Ok. I can see that. Let me quote part of your post but with a change to 2 letters.

shun the biggest trading partner you have ,withdraw the rights of your citizens to travel freely around the EU, drive your country into further political and financial instability and all this so you can greater accountability from your larger neighbour

You've just summarised all the problems with Brexit.

At least with Scotland they'll (theoretically) stay part of the trading bloc that is the EU so they wont be losing their largest trading partner with nothing in place to replace it.

With the quota system that the WTO operates under Scotland could take over the share the UK has abandoned and would actually be in a very strong position regarding international trade."
.

The irony of my post seemed lost on you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!.

And welsh

Ah, but the Welsh have always been happy to kiss English ass."
. Interesting observation, as a welsh person i am happy with the union, as a country we would have struggled much more without English Scottish and Irish help.

Now i didnt vote for brexit i was for remaining so Im now in the minority in democracy, how will i get treated by the majority? Going off previous form ill get screwed as thats normally what the majority does to the minority.

So the question is do i cut off my nose to spite my neighbours face?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best

Totally agree.

Cake and eat it.....

Del"

As people have said, the circumstances have changed seeing as how Scotland was pretty much pro-remain, and if it remains as part of the UK, it will be subject to a hard brexit in the vision of what Mrs May has interpreted the narrow leave victory to be.

Come on, see your hypocrisy. We can as a Union leave the EU, but heaven forbid the Scots have a different view to us, and a lack of compromise from the PM finally makes the Scots threaten the stability of the Union.

Do you not see what this means, it means the Union will be weaker, which makes the UK look weaker. If the PM had listened and tried to compromise we might not have such visible fracture lines.

Anyway, why are a bunch of English and Welsh leave voters concerned with a huge chunk of remain voters possibly leaving the union? Are you scared of what happens if Scotland leaves the union?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!.

And welsh

Ah, but the Welsh have always been happy to kiss English ass.. Interesting observation, as a welsh person i am happy with the union, as a country we would have struggled much more without English Scottish and Irish help.

So the question is do i cut off my nose to spite my neighbours face?"

Sometimes if people are so pissed off with a situation, they will, even if the odds of prospering seem slim or fairly low.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best

Totally agree.

Cake and eat it.....

Del

Do you not see what this means, it means the Union will be weaker, which makes the UK look weaker. If the PM had listened and tried to compromise we might not have such visible fracture lines.

Anyway, why are a bunch of English and Welsh leave voters concerned with a huge chunk of remain voters possibly leaving the union? Are you scared of what happens if Scotland leaves the union?"

Nope

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best

Totally agree.

Cake and eat it.....

Del

Do you not see what this means, it means the Union will be weaker, which makes the UK look weaker. If the PM had listened and tried to compromise we might not have such visible fracture lines.

Anyway, why are a bunch of English and Welsh leave voters concerned with a huge chunk of remain voters possibly leaving the union? Are you scared of what happens if Scotland leaves the union?

Nope"

So why are you concerned with them leaving? Or are you one of thee brexiters who is simply going to shrug their shoulders and say, democracy is democracy, let them make their decisions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best

Totally agree.

Cake and eat it.....

Del

Do you not see what this means, it means the Union will be weaker, which makes the UK look weaker. If the PM had listened and tried to compromise we might not have such visible fracture lines.

Anyway, why are a bunch of English and Welsh leave voters concerned with a huge chunk of remain voters possibly leaving the union? Are you scared of what happens if Scotland leaves the union?

Nope

So why are you concerned with them leaving? Or are you one of thee brexiters who is simply going to shrug their shoulders and say, democracy is democracy, let them make their decisions."

I'm not concerned about them leaving. I just dislike the pretence that another Independance referendum has anything to do with staying in the EU. Sturgeon is lying to the Scottish people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?"

That would improve Scotlands positiin but it would leave England in the same position as if theyd all moved to any other country in the EU.

But it is an interesting point. If Scotland does leave they'd be in a great position to improve their economy by campaigning to get the EU bound businesses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can I Vote for them to Leave Please ?

Well. I never thought I'd see the day!

I agree with Mr Suit

Lol

well their is a first for everything

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!"
yes but plenty of Welsh as well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!.

And welsh

So the question is do i cut off my nose to spite my neighbours face?

Sometimes if people are so pissed off with a situation, they will, even if the odds of prospering seem slim or fairly low."
.

It seems to me that this whole thing from brexit to everything is all about people cutting their nose off to spite the other side.

Its like a giant baby toy throwing pram exercise.

If we actually listed to what people said and then made inclusion into the circle we'd have less problems but as always what they do is go were the majority its our way or the highway and anything you say is wrong.

Im pretty sure if wed done the same to brexiteers years ago it would probably never have even come to a referendum but that it seems is the butting heads of politics

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?"

That was one of my first thoughts after the brexit vote - what a wonderful opportunity for Scotland's economy.

Cargo ships laden with MacNissans and MacHondas leaving Leith and Rosyth bound for EC customers.

No shortage of factory sites up here and the re-location grants would be generous, I'm sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the situation was the same as before then it would be out of order to have another referendum so quickly but thats not the case here..

Nationalisim at its best

I...but.....what???

Cant you see...

Ok, you need this spelled out. Ok. I can see that. Let me quote part of your post but with a change to 2 letters.

You've just summarised all the problems with Brexit.

At least with Scotland they'll (theoretically) stay part of the trading bloc that is the EU so they wont be losing their largest trading partner with nothing in place to replace it.

With the quota system that the WTO operates under Scotland could take over the share the UK has abandoned and would actually be in a very strong position regarding international trade."
.

Actually its worse than you thought.

They trade 4 times more to the UK than they do with the EU.

Also your theoretical saying they wont leave the EU when this is an unknown, its just as possible that they will have to leave the EU as well as the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?

That was one of my first thoughts after the brexit vote - what a wonderful opportunity for Scotland's economy.

Cargo ships laden with MacNissans and MacHondas leaving Leith and Rosyth bound for EC customers.

No shortage of factory sites up here and the re-location grants would be generous, I'm sure."
on the news it just said nobody knows if Scotland would be able to remain in the EU or the single market? what would plan b be if you didnt keep EU status after leaving?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?

That was one of my first thoughts after the brexit vote - what a wonderful opportunity for Scotland's economy.

Cargo ships laden with MacNissans and MacHondas leaving Leith and Rosyth bound for EC customers.

No shortage of factory sites up here and the re-location grants would be generous, I'm sure. on the news it just said nobody knows if Scotland would be able to remain in the EU or the single market? what would plan b be if you didnt keep EU status after leaving?.

alternative facts don't count

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just make sure you vote to leave this time

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I think it would be very sad for Scotland to leave the UK. If there is a second referendum I hope they chose to stick with us again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?

That was one of my first thoughts after the brexit vote - what a wonderful opportunity for Scotland's economy.

Cargo ships laden with MacNissans and MacHondas leaving Leith and Rosyth bound for EC customers.

Don't be too surprised about that. Last indyref the BBC reporting was so biased it was unbelievable.

However, on the main subject as someone who would love to see an independent Scotland I'm not prepared to vote for it at any cost. I'd much rather keep my nose on my face. The economic argument has to be compelling and some clarity on EU membership provided before I'd vote yes to independence again. However given the levels of broken promises dragged out by the better together campaign last time, I'd be very reluctant to take their word on anything next time around.

This is all that idiot Cameron's fault and badly compounded by May.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

In the event of the Indy-Ref2 it is wise to think long and hard. To hear Sturgeon and Salmond you'd think that membership of the E.U for an independent Scotland would be a 'done deal'. Not a chance, Scotland runs the highest budget deficit of any Western country and things as they stand are subsidised by the U.K taxpayer via the Barnett Formula.

Then there's the cost implications of setting up a stand alone currency. It would not be the pound, The Bank of ENGLAND issues that currency. The Euro? Well, Scotland would have to satisfy the fiscal responsibility conditions for a start which means it would have to stop living well beyond its means.

Oil revenues? After the last Indy-Ref the global price collapsed and would have caused major problems for an independent Scotland.

Much to think about.

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!"

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

The Scots had a vote, and they voted to stay as part of the UK.

The UK then had a vote, and voted to leave the EU.

So, what's all this bollix about " Scotland voted to stay in the EU"? I t was a UK vote, and at that time, the Scots had decided they were part of the UK, so bringing this up is just nonsense.

Wee Jimmy Sturgeon will not be happy until she gets what SHE wants, she is after all, leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party, a bit like UKIP, a one-issue party that, after the Indy vote, was redundant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?

That was one of my first thoughts after the brexit vote - what a wonderful opportunity for Scotland's economy.

Cargo ships laden with MacNissans and MacHondas leaving Leith and Rosyth bound for EC customers.

Don't be too surprised about that. Last indyref the BBC reporting was so biased it was unbelievable.

This is all that idiot Cameron's fault and badly compounded by May."

Biased!! BBC - All Fake News! Sad!

Trump has shown us you can spout blatant lies if want and you will still have people believe you IF you can discredit the purveyors of truth.

Fake News is now simply what you don't want to hear as it does not support your own position.

Scaremongering on the other hand is anyone having the temerity to question any of the wildly optomistic statements made by the side you support.

If you look at the administrative record of the SNP (For example on the NHS and Education), and view them like employees, you could take the view it would be better that they finish the work they already have before agreeing to their suggestion they should be made Cheif Executive.

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote "

Well Scotland shouldnt *have* to do anything they dont want to do.

If in the next few weeks it became clear that a majority of Scotland wanted to leave would you rather keep them against their will?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It could be a good thing? If they vote for independence and win, then are allowed to stay in EU - all we'd have to do is ship everything via Scotland? Banking, Insurance, manufacturing a win win?

That was one of my first thoughts after the brexit vote - what a wonderful opportunity for Scotland's economy.

Cargo ships laden with MacNissans and MacHondas leaving Leith and Rosyth bound for EC customers.

Don't be too surprised about that. Last indyref the BBC reporting was so biased it was unbelievable.

This is all that idiot Cameron's fault and badly compounded by May.

Biased!! BBC - All Fake News! Sad!

Trump has shown us you can spout blatant lies if want and you will still have people believe you IF you can discredit the purveyors of truth.

Fake News is now simply what you don't want to hear as it does not support your own position.

Scaremongering on the other hand is anyone having the temerity to question any of the wildly optomistic statements made by the side you support.

Being as you live pretty far down in England, I doubt very much that you manage to pick up the Scottish regional news. I suggest you look on youtube for a video called London Calling BBC Bias during the independence referendum. It's presented by Craig Murray, a former British ambassador and Rector of Dundee University. I'm not accusing the BBC of 'fake news' so please don't jump on that one, what I'm talking about is a pro-Unionist slant and scare mongering. Of course, you don't have to believe me, you're welcome to your blinkered view. However, consider the main news headlines over the last few weeks. These have included almost a weeks worth of headlines on the NHS crisis in England and Wales and the recent bed shortages, the standards and class sizes in English schools and the recent head teachers conference, and, best of all, the ongoing rail dispute in the South East. None of these headlines have ANY relevance to Scotland. Were you aware, for example, that there was a similar rail dispute in Scotland last year on exactly the same grounds and it caused similar levels of disruption? Probably not as it never got any coverage on the 'national' news. Did you know said dispute was also settled last year by agreement between the rail operator and the unions? Again, probably not.

The bias displayed by the BBC during the last Indyref was similar to the bias it was accused of during the Brexit debate where it appeared to push the so-called 'Project Fear' agenda over the leave campaign.

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By *elnkazCouple
over a year ago

cheshire

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote

Well Scotland shouldnt *have* to do anything they dont want to do.

If in the next few weeks it became clear that a majority of Scotland wanted to leave would you rather keep them against their will?

What about the majority of Scots who already voted to stay in the UK in the "once in a generation" referendum????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So, could be here we go again. Thought it was a 'once in a generation' vote last time. Or does that only apply if the result was 'wrong'? Was odd watching Salmond discuss looking forward to the comfort of post independence E.U membership when an independent Scotland, with an horrendous budget deficit, when such membership is far from a forgone conclusion."

"once in a generation" same as vote to remain part of UK to remain in EU

ehhh

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK then voted to leave the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is up to the Scottish to decide their own fate - whether good or bad? The Project Fear campaign which won last time highlighted the fact Scotland would be out of the EU. Now we are leaving it is a major factor. Doom & gloom predictions about brexit have not happened. So who knows Scotland may thrive being an independent country again. We can split the assets & liabilities and let them have a go?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK then voted to leave the EU."

Then Scotland calls for a new independence Referendum

sign of the times

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

All the economic unknowns remain and are probably worse than before. Also, the E.U may yet fall apart. If Le Pen takes France out and the Dutch go then it's game over for that.

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote

Well Scotland shouldnt *have* to do anything they dont want to do.

If in the next few weeks it became clear that a majority of Scotland wanted to leave would you rather keep them against their will?

What about the majority of Scots who already voted to stay in the UK in the "once in a generation" referendum????"

Well the fact that independence was linked to a risk of losing their EU membership was a very prominent part of the discussions. So we dont know how many people would have changed their mind if they knew theyd be out of the EU anyway.

Since the circumstances have changed dramatically (and whether your pro or anti Brexit you have to agree its a big change) its only fair that people get their say on the new state of things. If the majority of Scots still want to say then theres no change. If the majority of Scots want to leave then they should have that right.

I dont see why people are arguing against people expressing their democratic voice. Particularly when alot of the people arguing against it are pro Brexit and have leaned heavily on the argument that the people have spoken regarding the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote

Well Scotland shouldnt *have* to do anything they dont want to do.

If in the next few weeks it became clear that a majority of Scotland wanted to leave would you rather keep them against their will?

What about the majority of Scots who already voted to stay in the UK in the "once in a generation" referendum????

I don't think anybody is arguing against it, people are just pointing out that using the EU as an excuse for another referendum is dishonest and they wouldn't be allowed back in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote

Well Scotland shouldnt *have* to do anything they dont want to do.

If in the next few weeks it became clear that a majority of Scotland wanted to leave would you rather keep them against their will?"
.

Thats an interesting question that i put to you yesterday and got alot of abuse for?.

So when does it become unreasonable to hold people to your dogma because you think its the right thing to do?.

Its a tricky one, i believe in freedom of choice and therefore Im in favour of the Scots doing what ever they want to do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is it not true that the SNP want independence no matter what happens with Britain and the EU ?

So they might as well have it now not wait until 18 months

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it not English nationalisim that is taking the UK out of Europe !!!!!!!

No , it was the WHOLE nation, UK , that decided to leave. . regardless of which part of the UK you belong to, you have to go with the majority vote

Well Scotland shouldnt *have* to do anything they dont want to do.

If in the next few weeks it became clear that a majority of Scotland wanted to leave would you rather keep them against their will?

What about the majority of Scots who already voted to stay in the UK in the "once in a generation" referendum????

I don't think anybody is arguing against it, people are just pointing out that using the EU as an excuse for another referendum is dishonest and they wouldn't be allowed back in"

that is your opinion, although you cannot prove this and in all truth no one knows at this moment in time what Scotlands position will be with the EU once they have been made to leave due to the UK referendum

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

Theresa May passionately believes the will of the people must be respected*

(*Terms and conditions apply, not valid in Scotland)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It is it not true that the SNP want independence no matter what happens with Britain and the EU ?

So they might as well have it now not wait until 18 months

it was written into the SNP manifesto and then the SNP were voted into power by huge support by the people o Scotland

Scotland’s future

•We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

what did "May" have in her manifesto? oh wait, she wasn't even voted into power by the people of the UK, never mind manifesto

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

If the Scots that voted to leave the EU and the Scots that did,nt vote at all had all vote to Remain in the EU Brexit would never have happened. So its clear not ALL scots want to stay in the EU.

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

" It is it not true that the SNP want independence no matter what happens with Britain and the EU ?

So they might as well have it now not wait until 18 months

it was written into the SNP manifesto and then the SNP were voted into power by huge support by the people o Scotland

Scotland’s future

what did "May" have in her manifesto? oh wait, she wasn't even voted into power by the people of the UK, never mind manifesto

We don't vote a person into power we vote a party into power sadly Torys won.

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

May held one of the four most senior posts in the Government. The Tory Manifesto, on which they were elected, had a pledge to stay part of the Single Market.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the Scots that voted to leave the EU and the Scots that did,nt vote at all had all vote to Remain in the EU Brexit would never have happened. So its clear not ALL scots want to stay in the EU. "

Well, obviously not. If all English that didn't vote voted to remain Brexit would never have happened.

What's your point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It is it not true that the SNP want independence no matter what happens with Britain and the EU ?

So they might as well have it now not wait until 18 months

it was written into the SNP manifesto and then the SNP were voted into power by huge support by the people o Scotland

Scotland’s future

what did "May" have in her manifesto? oh wait, she wasn't even voted into power by the people of the UK, never mind manifesto

So have the referendum as soon as possible then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the fact that scots vote for the SNP in huge numbers whos agenda has always been independence says the scottish voters have an appetite for another referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the fact that scots vote for the SNP in huge numbers whos agenda has always been independence says the scottish voters have an appetite for another referendum."
.

Not according to the polls, most people dont want one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mind you, when has that ever stopped government

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

" It is it not true that the SNP want independence no matter what happens with Britain and the EU ?

So they might as well have it now not wait until 18 months

it was written into the SNP manifesto and then the SNP were voted into power by huge support by the people o Scotland

Scotland’s future

what did "May" have in her manifesto? oh wait, she wasn't even voted into power by the people of the UK, never mind manifesto

So have the referendum as soon as possible then

Its taken the tories 9 months just to trigger A50, the SNP are entitled to take their time to prepare (as are the opposition) and to possibly try and see if an answer to the EU question can be obtained. An answer one way or the other on EU will give Scottish voters a clearer idea of what they'll be voting for and I dont think theres any argument against giving voters clearer and more complete information.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It is it not true that the SNP want independence no matter what happens with Britain and the EU ?

So they might as well have it now not wait until 18 months

it was written into the SNP manifesto and then the SNP were voted into power by huge support by the people o Scotland

Scotland’s future

what did "May" have in her manifesto? oh wait, she wasn't even voted into power by the people of the UK, never mind manifesto

So have the referendum as soon as possible then

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

As far as I can see Sturgeon wants to be out of Britain and if Brexit did not exist she would find a reason to try to get another referendum.

She says she wants independence yet she wants to be part of Europe,a very silly statement.She does not want laws from the UK,yet wants them from Europe.

What she wants is some mug to give her money to waste on her crackpot policies.

She thinks as a small EU nation she could get lots of handouts to use as she wants.

She is a nasty bit of work and should be dealt with in the same way as Elisebeth dealt with her sister Mary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if Scotland left will the NHS hospitals and doctor surgeries still be running in Scotland? If they be allowed to stay with the EU would it be boarders in place to stop the free movement of people coming into the uk

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

She says she wants independence yet she wants to be part of Europe,a very silly statement.She does not want laws from the UK,yet wants them from Europe.

It's not silly.

You seem to be continuing to believe the UK Parliament did not have sovereignty throughout its time in Europe. Did you not see the bit in the otherwise pathetic 'White Paper' the Government produced where it actually stated Parliament had always been Sovereign it just hadn't always felt that way.

Which is pathetic and confirmation of another lie they hoodwinked the simple minded.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if Scotland left will the NHS hospitals and doctor surgeries still be running in Scotland? If they be allowed to stay with the EU would it be boarders in place to stop the free movement of people coming into the uk"

Why on earth wouldn't they be? Scots pay into the NHS too you know. In the event of any separation, Scotland would take it's share of current UK wide resources such as the NHS and armed forces.

With regard to a border, I guess there probably would be one but I think it would be more important to the English as they're the ones that seem to be obsessed with migrants getting into their country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why on earth wouldn't they be? Scots pay into the NHS too you know. In the event of any separation, Scotland would take it's share of current UK wide resources such as the NHS and armed forces.

How many Scots would have to move south do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why on earth wouldn't they be? Scots pay into the NHS too you know. In the event of any separation, Scotland would take it's share of current UK wide resources such as the NHS and armed forces.

How many Scots would have to move south do you think?

I don't know. How many English would want to move to Scotland do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why on earth wouldn't they be? Scots pay into the NHS too you know. In the event of any separation, Scotland would take it's share of current UK wide resources such as the NHS and armed forces.

How many Scots would have to move south do you think?

I don't know. How many English would want to move to Scotland do you think?"

Just the hermits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How many English would want Scotland to leave ? Loads

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many English would want Scotland to leave ? Loads

You are aware; "you" and your English friends have no vote

plenty mouth but no vote

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

An awful lot of people in the North of England would rather be governed by the Scottish Parliament than Westminster.

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

I see Sinn Fein are calling for a Norther Ireland Referendum.

Well done all you Tory kippers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why on earth wouldn't they be? Scots pay into the NHS too you know. In the event of any separation, Scotland would take it's share of current UK wide resources such as the NHS and armed forces.

How many Scots would have to move south do you think?

I don't know. How many English would want to move to Scotland do you think?

Just the hermits"

You just wait until all those city banks and their highly paid (and taxed) employees decide Edinburgh is a better bet than London if Scotland stays in the EU. Better than Paris too. At least we speak the same language.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many English would want Scotland to leave ? Loads

You are aware; "you" and your English friends have no vote

plenty mouth but no vote

"
Exactly ! Is that Fair ? Why not give us a vote and you would get your Indepence ! England doesn't Want You !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see Sinn Fein are calling for a Norther Ireland Referendum.

Well done all you Tory kippers. "

Why not just have an independent Northern Ireland an let them get in with it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see Sinn Fein are calling for a Norther Ireland Referendum.

Well done all you Tory kippers.

Why not just have an independent Northern Ireland an let them get in with it

Theres no norther ireland its the north of ireland

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many English would want Scotland to leave ? Loads

You are aware; "you" and your English friends have no vote

plenty mouth but no vote

Exactly ! Is that Fair ? Why not give us a vote and you would get your Indepence ! England doesn't Want You !!!"

The feeling is mutual

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There is every chance Spain would Veto the application of an independent Scotland to join the European Union. It would want to send a message to the separatist movements in its own country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the fact that scots vote for the SNP in huge numbers whos agenda has always been independence says the scottish voters have an appetite for another referendum..

Not according to the polls, most people dont want one"

What polls are you looking at? Every person i know wants one and all the recent polls show a rise in support for independence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is every chance Spain would Veto the application of an independent Scotland to join the European Union. It would want to send a message to the separatist movements in its own country."

And theres every chance they wont

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Er, no. A very good chance they would VETO due to stated national interest. And in any case application as a new member, which Scotland would be, takes years and ALL other states have to agree to the new member joining. There won't be an 'inherited' status for Scotland.

Also you'd have to get your massive budget deficit under control before you could join.

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"If the Scots that voted to leave the EU and the Scots that did,nt vote at all had all vote to Remain in the EU Brexit would never have happened. So its clear not ALL scots want to stay in the EU.

Well, obviously not. If all English that didn't vote voted to remain Brexit would never have happened.

What's your point?"

The point is obviously not all Scots wanted to stay in the EU other wise they would voted to make sure they did.

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By *argaidMan
over a year ago

glasgow

"The point is obviously not all Scots wanted to stay in the EU other wise they would voted to make sure they did."

The majority of Scots DID vote and DID vote to remain.

Since continued membership of the EU was a carrot of Better Together's campaign and forced exit was one of their sticks, many who voted no last time did so in order to protect our EU membership. Especially many immigrant voters who were threatened with deportation if Scotland left the Union and were forced to leave the EU. The exact position in which they now find themselves. If nothing else defines the material change mandate under which the SNP were re-elected,that does.

May I also say that (with one notable exception and a couple of unpleasant remarks) I'm gratified that this room is managing to maintain a more reasonable debate on the topic than the Scottish room is. The thread there is full of the worst kind of Unionist patronising, misogynist bitching. Well done to the majority.

Remember; despite what the Tories and the Daily Mail would have you believe independence supporters are not anti-English. We want neighbours we can work with not masters to rule us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The point is obviously not all Scots wanted to stay in the EU other wise they would voted to make sure they did.

The majority of Scots DID vote and DID vote to remain.

Remember; despite what the Tories and the Daily Mail would have you believe independence supporters are not anti-English. We want neighbours we can work with not masters to rule us. "
I think you will find most English would be glad to see you go !

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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago

West Wales and Cardiff

Why on earth wouldn't they be? Scots pay into the NHS too you know. In the event of any separation, Scotland would take it's share of current UK wide resources such as the NHS and armed forces.

How many Scots would have to move south do you think?

I don't know. How many English would want to move to Scotland do you think?

Just the hermits

All very exciting for Scotland.

Plus the fact that it will be in England's (and Wales's) interest to ensure Scotland gets an excellent deal when it leaves.

Or something

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many English would want Scotland to leave ? Loads

You are aware; "you" and your English friends have no vote

plenty mouth but no vote

Exactly ! Is that Fair ? Why not give us a vote and you would get your Indepence ! England doesn't Want You !!!"

eh no, "you" will never have a vote,

you see, "we" in Scotland fought hard for the right to vote, we in Scotland put the SNP into power and the people of Scotland will continue to have the right to vote on Independence whilst you sit back and do nothing.

You, and your friends (if you have any) could start a National party and fight for the rights of England, but we all know, you wont

you will just sit in your chair and whinge on how upsetting it is that you have no vote

so, to answer your comment "why don't you give us a vote"

its simple; you don't deserve one

now stop whinging and get back to work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Membership IS a forgone conclusion. The conclusion is "non!".

UK has membership. Scotland does not and EU have made it clear that they cannot inherit UK membership.

A main argument in first Indy vote was if they left UK then they also left EU. Same is still true. As an independent country they would have to apply to join EU (about a seven year process apparently?). Would also have to meet budget requirements (they would be miles off). Join the Euro (they don't want to and would be doubly mad if they did). Would be blocked by Spain (this has already been made clear) as any new countries joining can only do so by unanimous decision of the other members.

So wee Kranky is blowing bagpipes up her own backside. Re-joining the EU is NOT an option. So using the UK brexit as an excuse for another referendum is just that....an excuse.

And if the SNP lose again.....will they call for another, and another....until their "silly" voters finally make the "right" decision?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lets just keep repeating elections/votes until the minority get what they want lol !!

as for sturgeon she was better in the krankies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems that sturgeon wants to time the next Indy ref to cause the maximum amount of trouble as near the end of the 2 years as possible

If she is so sure that the scots want it then have the vote now! After all she wants out of the UK anyways

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

Remember; despite what the Tories and the Daily Mail would have you believe independence supporters are not anti-English. We want neighbours we can work with not masters to rule us. I think you will find most English would be glad to see you go ! "

Not in my experience. In the north east at least I think most English would be sad to see them go because we like them, angry to see them go because they generally return excellent MP's to Parliament and help fight the Tories and jealous to see them go because they would like them to take us with them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So many fortune tellers in here lol, in actual fact no one knows what will happen if scotland becomes independent you are all just guessing and listening to msm who have already started project fear

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and as for the krankie jibes against our first minister its pretty low ,i wonder if we started calling your pm a tory lurch or your royals germanic nazi lovers im sure most would take offence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So many fortune tellers in here lol, in actual fact no one knows what will happen if scotland becomes independent you are all just guessing and listening to msm who have already started project fear "

Exactly, NO ONE KNOWS

and so many possibilities but everyone picks the worst outcomes and how they love Spain so much

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

I agree...all anyone can do is predict and maybe put their own spin on it....we have also heard many people's opinions of experts in the past so who knows what will actually happen. The latest economic "expert" on the tv yesterday said the oil revenues are now at zero and last year the industry had to be propped up by the government to the tune of £24 million or billion...can't remember exactly...assuming this is factual and that Scotland on it's own would struggle to be a full EU member then am i dependent Scotland doesn't make much sense....however...that is today...who knows what next week brings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So many fortune tellers in here lol, in actual fact no one knows what will happen if scotland becomes independent you are all just guessing and listening to msm who have already started project fear

Exactly, NO ONE KNOWS

and so many possibilities but everyone picks the worst outcomes and how they love Spain so much"

Yip

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Membership IS a forgone conclusion. The conclusion is "non!".

UK has membership. Scotland does not and EU have made it clear that they cannot inherit UK membership.

So wee Kranky is blowing bagpipes up her own backside. Re-joining the EU is NOT an option. So using the UK brexit as an excuse for another referendum is just that....an excuse.

And if the SNP lose again.....will they call for another, and another....until their "silly" voters finally make the "right" decision?"

Is it cynical of me to think that Salmond and Sturgeon will quite happily sacrifice EU membership to get SI?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So many fortune tellers in here lol, in actual fact no one knows what will happen if scotland becomes independent you are all just guessing and listening to msm who have already started project fear

I wont kid on i know all the facts or that im an expert on the econymy this to me is about the kind of country we want to be one that looks after the most vurnerable in society not sanction them to death ,a country who will welcome immigrants and the refugees whos countries we have destroyed a country not just for the rich to get richer but to spread wealth ,im very confident scotland can be a successful independent country it may take a few yrs of hard choices but we have the resources a good manufacturing base to make it work thats why im backing independence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Membership IS a forgone conclusion. The conclusion is "non!".

UK has membership. Scotland does not and EU have made it clear that they cannot inherit UK membership.

So wee Kranky is blowing bagpipes up her own backside. Re-joining the EU is NOT an option. So using the UK brexit as an excuse for another referendum is just that....an excuse.

And if the SNP lose again.....will they call for another, and another....until their "silly" voters finally make the "right" decision?

Is it cynical of me to think that Salmond and Sturgeon will quite happily sacrifice EU membership to get SI?

They will sacrifice anything for their own personal agenda. That much is obvious.

As for other posters talking of "speculation" and "spin". The EU has rules on membership as stated above. Their is no chance of an independent Scotland "retaining" EU membership as they don't have it to start with. The UK does....but the UK are exiting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Membership IS a forgone conclusion. The conclusion is "non!".

UK has membership. Scotland does not and EU have made it clear that they cannot inherit UK membership.

So wee Kranky is blowing bagpipes up her own backside. Re-joining the EU is NOT an option. So using the UK brexit as an excuse for another referendum is just that....an excuse.

And if the SNP lose again.....will they call for another, and another....until their "silly" voters finally make the "right" decision?

Is it cynical of me to think that Salmond and Sturgeon will quite happily sacrifice EU membership to get SI?

They will sacrifice anything for their own personal agenda. That much is obvious.

How much do you charge for a reading lol ,you really should stop this crap and admit you are guessing lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many English would want Scotland to leave ? Loads

You are aware; "you" and your English friends have no vote

plenty mouth but no vote

Exactly ! Is that Fair ? Why not give us a vote and you would get your Indepence ! England doesn't Want You !!!

eh no, "you" will never have a vote,

You, and your friends (if you have any) could start a National party and fight for the rights of England, but we all know, you wont

you will just sit in your chair and whinge on how upsetting it is that you have no vote

so, to answer your comment "why don't you give us a vote"

its simple; you don't deserve one

now stop whinging and get back to work."
you may be wrong Thier !!!

An E N P will happen !

Snag is as you know dam well , as soon as it does it will be instantly be accused of been Racist !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we both know your E N P will never happen, although in saying that, keep your fingers crossed, it will be interesting to see what Arron Banks comes up with and the new party he "invents"

Arron Banks may be worth a new thread of his own, with regards to what he funds and brain childs next

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting to see the Brexiters in this thread stating that Scotland cannot join the EU and that Spain will veto them ....when they were the same people saying that the EU is one big undemocratic block and that individual countries don't have a say ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"we both know your E N P will never happen, although in saying that, keep your fingers crossed, it will be interesting to see what Arron Banks comes up with and the new party he "invents"

Arron Banks may be worth a new thread of his own, with regards to what he funds and brain childs next"
I think that could be it !

I'm not advocating another BNP tho !

Ideally an E N P could actually work with the S N P

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number"

Yes, in the same way that the majority of that age range supported remaining in Europe. It's the elderly in our population that is voting to hold the UK and Scotland back.

It is worth remembering that had the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU, the question of a second Indyref would probably not have arisen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number"

But you need to prize them away from thier iPads and console long enough to actually get off thier asses and vote.

I seem to recall that they said that a large majority of younger voting age were in favour of remain but did not bother even voting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

But you need to prize them away from thier iPads and console long enough to actually get off thier asses and vote.

I seem to recall that they said that a large majority of younger voting age were in favour of remain but did not bother even voting

(Postal Vote)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

But you need to prize them away from thier iPads and console long enough to actually get off thier asses and vote.

I seem to recall that they said that a large majority of younger voting age were in favour of remain but did not bother even voting

(Postal Vote)

They still have to post it though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

But you need to prize them away from thier iPads and console long enough to actually get off thier asses and vote.

I seem to recall that they said that a large majority of younger voting age were in favour of remain but did not bother even voting

If my daughter and her friends are anything to go by they will be voting in large numbers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

Yes, in the same way that the majority of that age range supported remaining in Europe. It's the elderly in our population that is voting to hold the UK and Scotland back.

It is worth remembering that had the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU, the question of a second Indyref would probably not have arisen. "

I think a lot of older people have got wise to the lies they were told ,i will be involved in a group who will be going along to pensioners clubs bingo halls ect to put our points accross

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

Yes, in the same way that the majority of that age range supported remaining in Europe. It's the elderly in our population that is voting to hold the UK and Scotland back.

It is worth remembering that had the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU, the question of a second Indyref would probably not have arisen. "

The SNP would still have been pushing for another one though!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

Yes, in the same way that the majority of that age range supported remaining in Europe. It's the elderly in our population that is voting to hold the UK and Scotland back.

It is worth remembering that had the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU, the question of a second Indyref would probably not have arisen.

The SNP would still have been pushing for another one though! "

Wrong the only ones talking about independence before the brexit vote were the tories labour and libdems they were the ones who kept it going

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

can i ask a question......

if everyone applauded the conservatives for going thru with a pledge in their manefesto saying if they won they would carry out a referendum......

why are people pilling on the SNP for not carrying out one of the pledges in their manifesto???

you may hate it... by the SNP did put in their 2016 general election manifesto if there were to be a major change in circumstances.... and god bless them the actual example they used was if the UK voted to leave the EU in any proposed refenudum, but people in scotland voted in a massive majority to stay (i think 62-38 is big enough) then they would use it in consideration to call an indyref 2.....

the conservatives stuck to their pledge....

the SNP stuck to theirs.....

brexiteers double standards?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"can i ask a question......

if everyone applauded the conservatives for going thru with a pledge in their manefesto saying if they won they would carry out a referendum......

why are people pilling on the SNP for not carrying out one of the pledges in their manifesto???

the conservatives stuck to their pledge....

the SNP stuck to theirs.....

brexiteers double standards?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but she did use to be a krankie lol just a crank now tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but she did use to be a krankie lol just a crank now tho"

Was going to say something nasty but think il be bigger and better than that ,your comment and that of others on here just shows you up as having a small mind

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but she did use to be a krankie lol just a crank now tho"

Petty and childish

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"but she did use to be a krankie lol just a crank now tho

Petty and childish

don't worry... have you noticed this comment always comes from those for the leafy suburbs down south who rather than debate the actual polices have to lower themselves to comments about the person...

playing the person rather than the ball......

I don't agree with here on everything... in fact last time i was absolutely opposed to it,

I hope they do stay, but if they go i won't begrudge them with the venom some will here.... because the circumstances have changed and one of the big arguements the "stay together" side did put up where people like it or now is that staying would assure membership in the EU.....

like i said, i hope they do stay because i think they are stronger together, but i am not going to have a go at the SNP for honouring their manifesto pledge, especially since the conservatives seem to be bending over backwards to honour all of theres..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

useless on geography too lol abergele is north wales not down south in the leafy suburbs !!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled "

When it actually comes down to it, might be way different. The polling industry has something of an image and credibility issue at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just make sure you vote to leave this time

And this is why some Scottish voters will vote leave

Not all Scots support the snp.

I have family on both sides of the border and will be having my holiday in England.I think

I will avoid Yorkshire though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

Yes, in the same way that the majority of that age range supported remaining in Europe. It's the elderly in our population that is voting to hold the UK and Scotland back.

It is worth remembering that had the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU, the question of a second Indyref would probably not have arisen. "

And the snp would never ever ever being up independence again

NOT

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A poll by scottish social attitudes has just shown that 72% of 16-24yr olds will vote for independence thats a very encouraging number

Yes, in the same way that the majority of that age range supported remaining in Europe. It's the elderly in our population that is voting to hold the UK and Scotland back.

It is worth remembering that had the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU, the question of a second Indyref would probably not have arisen.

And the snp would never ever ever being up independence again

NOT "

What I meant was would not have arisen NOW.

Naturally, the SNP will continue to campaign for independence. That, after all is their raison d'etre. However, it would have been MUCH more difficult if not impossible for them to call indyref 2 if there had been no 'material change in circumstances'. Brexit has provided the catalyst the SNP needed to make such a call.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled "

Was it 3000 English people they asked?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled

Was it 3000 English people they asked?

"
can't have been , it would have 100% for Scotland to leave if they had asked 3000 English

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"useless on geography too lol abergele is north wales not down south in the leafy suburbs !! "

wasn't wrong about you mocking the person as opposed to the actual ppolicy though was i...

so if you think calling someone "krankie" really adds to the substantive debate.... keep going!!! all ears!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled

Was it 3000 English people they asked?

can't have been , it would have 100% for Scotland to leave if they had asked 3000 English

Do you actually bombard your MP with as much bullsh1t as you post on here? If you did, you might have a slight chance of achieving something.

Oh no! Sorry! Yorkshire doesn't have a UKIP MP and there isn't an ELP. How sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but she did use to be a krankie lol just a crank now tho

Petty and childish

playing the person rather than the ball......

I don't agree with here on everything... in fact last time i was absolutely opposed to it,

Your comments are fairly accurate on this thread and factual with their manifesto, a manifesto which was written and presented before they were voted back into power.

And truth be told, they have Scotland's interest at heart, no other Scottish party has Scotland's interests fully at heart and god help Scotland if Kezia Dugsdale or Ruth Davidson got into power

Whether Scotland gets independence and goes it alone, or remains part of UK it will still do very well either way

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"There is every chance Spain would Veto the application of an independent Scotland to join the European Union. It would want to send a message to the separatist movements in its own country.

Yes, Spain has said it WILL USE ITS VETO should Scotland apply to join the EU . To give credence to a breakaway state gives its own separatists a Chink of light in their fight for Independence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled

Was it 3000 English people they asked?

"
can't have been , it would have 100% for Scotland to leave if they had asked 3000 English

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

"There is every chance Spain would Veto the application of an independent Scotland to join the European Union. It would want to send a message to the separatist movements in its own country.

Yes, Spain has said it WILL USE ITS VETO should Scotland apply to join the EU . To give credence to a breakaway state gives its own separatists a Chink of light in their fight for Independence. "

It looks like Spain will veto, but if the Scots can make the argument that its a different case than Spains seperatists then it might be enough to get past Spains issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is every chance Spain would Veto the application of an independent Scotland to join the European Union. It would want to send a message to the separatist movements in its own country.

Yes, Spain has said it WILL USE ITS VETO should Scotland apply to join the EU . To give credence to a breakaway state gives its own separatists a Chink of light in their fight for Independence.

It looks like Spain will veto, but if the Scots can make the argument that its a different case than Spains seperatists then it might be enough to get past Spains issues."

initially Mariano Rajoy said Scotland would have to fully become independent first then apply to join the EU

he has now said he would be open to consideration if separation from EU is 2 years, and Scotland / England separation is also 2 years, then there is a possibility that during that period of break-up Scotland could also apply

he is slowly coming round

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is every chance Spain would Veto the application of an independent Scotland to join the European Union. It would want to send a message to the separatist movements in its own country.

Yes, Spain has said it WILL USE ITS VETO should Scotland apply to join the EU . To give credence to a breakaway state gives its own separatists a Chink of light in their fight for Independence. "

Who from the spanish goverment has said this ,name and link pls

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled

Was it 3000 English people they asked?

can't have been , it would have 100% for Scotland to leave if they had asked 3000 English

Get voting then

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By *egionaireMan
over a year ago

ramsey

Hey Mrs May grow a set by giving your English citizens a vote as to whether we want a country on our border that moans and wines every time it does not get what it want.Scots remember your history we were once ruled by a Scots king.look where that got us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hey Mrs May grow a set by giving your English citizens a vote as to whether we want a country on our border that moans and wines every time it does not get what it want.Scots remember your history we were once ruled by a Scots king.look where that got us "

exactly what; are you trying to say

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

The Conservatives have not honoured their pledge to stay in the Single Market.

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By *egionaireMan
over a year ago

ramsey

Let's close the border and watch Scotland sink in to bankruptcy with the EU bleeding them dry with all its idiotic laws and policies .if I had a vote I would give you independence but don't come back crying oh flower of Scotland when will we see you again because you won't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's close the border and watch Scotland sink in to bankruptcy with the EU bleeding them dry with all its idiotic laws and policies .if I had a vote I would give you independence but don't come back crying oh flower of Scotland when will we see you again because you won't"

you do understand Scotland is still part of UK don't you?

and if they did win Independence, trade would continue between Scotland and England

what kind of border do you suggest? similar to N&S Ireland? soft border or total isolation

how many remainers would move up to Scotland before this takes place

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I would not have put it like that but an independent Scotland will start having to live within its means, quickly. E.U membership, if it happens would be years off and very strict fiscal responsibility measures would have to undertaken.

Nobody knows what will really happen but there are massive risks. A Scotland in the UK but out of the E.U has the potential to do very well.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Why would you want a very close neighbour to suffer an economic catastrophe? Aside from being nasty and vindictive, you haven't really thought through the consequences have you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Membership IS a forgone conclusion. The conclusion is "non!".

UK has membership. Scotland does not and EU have made it clear that they cannot inherit UK membership.

So wee Kranky is blowing bagpipes up her own backside. Re-joining the EU is NOT an option. So using the UK brexit as an excuse for another referendum is just that....an excuse.

And if the SNP lose again.....will they call for another, and another....until their "silly" voters finally make the "right" decision?

Is it cynical of me to think that Salmond and Sturgeon will quite happily sacrifice EU membership to get SI?

They will sacrifice anything for their own personal agenda. That much is obvious.

How much do you charge for a reading lol ,you really should stop this crap and admit you are guessing lol

I don't charge for reading...maybe you should start reading the EU rules etc. Or maybe listening to what has been said by the EU commission and by several EU spokespersons. I'm simply quoting facts that anyone can check....maybe even you could...or in asking for a reading are you implying that you can't?

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By *egionaireMan
over a year ago

ramsey

You won't be saying that when they want England to bail them out when it all goes wrong. They will look to charge to enter Scotland Remember Wales charges you to go in to Wales across the Seven bridge but England charges nothing to return

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You won't be saying that when they want England to bail them out when it all goes wrong. They will look to charge to enter Scotland Remember Wales charges you to go in to Wales across the Seven bridge but England charges nothing to return"

if we did charge to enter wales then it would be double

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

I'm just confused.

Can someone explain how Scotland (or at least Wee Jimmy Sturgeon) want independence... yet they want to stay in the EU, thus tying themselves to (and being governed by) someone else?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fwcyn joscyns aye

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm just confused.

Can someone explain how Scotland (or at least Wee Jimmy Sturgeon) want independence... yet they want to stay in the EU, thus tying themselves to (and being governed by) someone else?

yes, you are definitely confused, try writing again

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

I doubt very much that an independent Scotland complies with the conditions needed for EU membership. Continuing membership is a red herring, its impossible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I doubt very much that an independent Scotland complies with the conditions needed for EU membership. Continuing membership is a red herring, its impossible."

Have more faith, do you really think any of what you have stated has not been considered, planned and worked on, Give politicians more credit, they don't all follow in the footsteps if david davis

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

I,ve just read the EU,s terms and conditions of membership. Its called the European Neighbourhood Policy And Enlargement policy and it includes the 35 chapters of the acquis which we must comply. I do give politicians credit, I also view them with a healthy degree of cynicism. Thats why I try to go to the source rather than let them filter the information required to make an informed decision.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I'm just confused.

Can someone explain how Scotland (or at least Wee Jimmy Sturgeon) want independence... yet they want to stay in the EU, thus tying themselves to (and being governed by) someone else?

It is because you dont understand the difference between being a minority, subservient voice that jumps to the jackboot of Westminster and being an equal partner and respected partner of the European Union.

It is not your fault that you don't know the meaning of the European Union and how it works and that you conflate it with the United Kingdom.

To illustrate the point, if Scotland were already outside of the UK and inside the EU - it would be debating and voting on the final terms of the Brexit deal. As it stands now they are being told to shove it by Westminster, because they are subservient members of the United Kingdom.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I doubt very much that an independent Scotland complies with the conditions needed for EU membership. Continuing membership is a red herring, its impossible."

Bearing in mind the detail within the last SNP independance manifesto, I would feel fairly confident that they will be far more prepared than PM Mays Brexshit Buffoons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Itv news online poll sitting at 94% for independence 3000 ppl have polled

Was it 3000 English people they asked?

can't have been , it would have 100% for Scotland to leave if they had asked 3000 English

Get voting then

"
We are not allowed to !

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Why do you think that Ireland and Norway (for example) can manage as independent nations, but Scotland can't?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I doubt very much that an independent Scotland complies with the conditions needed for EU membership. Continuing membership is a red herring, its impossible.

Have more faith, do you really think any of what you have stated has not been considered, planned and worked on, Give politicians more credit, they don't all follow in the footsteps if david davis "
if England left the U K ? Surely Scotland , Wales and the North of Ireland would still be the U K so in theory stay in the E U maybe ?

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

"Yeah!!

Independance for Scotland!!

England, Wales and Northern Ireland will all be better off. We are going to build a wall and make the Scots pay for it!!

Brought to you by #harmonyintheUK.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Interesting, but the remaining UK itself would still not comply with the acquis. I suggest you read the policy I mentioned in my previous post and see for yourself. Our membership relies on the institutions of the whole of the UK, not of its constituent parts.

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK then voted to leave the EU.

Then Scotland calls for a new independence Referendum

sign of the times

You obviously haven't heard about the petition, now approaching 200000 names, stating that they don't want another referendum.

And the added FACT, that the strongest opposition is from 6 of the SNP's strongholds!!!

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

"I'm just confused.

Can someone explain how Scotland want independence... yet they want to stay in the EU, thus tying themselves to (and being governed by) someone else?

Exactly!! People would do well to listen to Jim Sillars, an ex deputy leader of the SNP, who asks that very point.

Why go for independence from Westminster, and yet wish to be ruled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats???

You couldn't make it up!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scotland voted to remain part of the UK. The UK then voted to leave the EU.

Then Scotland calls for a new independence Referendum

sign of the times

You obviously haven't heard about the petition, now approaching 200000 names, stating that they don't want another referendum.

And the added FACT, that the strongest opposition is from 6 of the SNP's strongholds!!!"

Its not all scots signing the petition,pls show a link where it says the strongest opposition are from 6 snp strongholds

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"I doubt very much that an independent Scotland complies with the conditions needed for EU membership. Continuing membership is a red herring, its impossible.

Bearing in mind the detail within the last SNP independance manifesto, I would feel fairly confident that they will be far more prepared than PM Mays Brexshit Buffoons."
You clearly havent read it.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Hopefully this link will work. http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=180642

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah!!

Independance for Scotland!!

England, Wales and Northern Ireland will all be better off. We are going to build a wall and make the Scots pay for it!!

Brought to you by #harmonyintheUK.

"
love your posts

I do feel on my own here sometimes lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hopefully this link will work. http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=180642"

Haha really lol just shows some ppl beleive anything they read

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

You asked for a link, you got it. Suck it up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You asked for a link, you got it. Suck it up."

You call that a link go have a look again lol ,some ppl really are gullible

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm just confused.

Can someone explain how Scotland want independence... yet they want to stay in the EU, thus tying themselves to (and being governed by) someone else?

Exactly!! People would do well to listen to Jim Sillars, an ex deputy leader of the SNP, who asks that very point.

Why go for independence from Westminster, and yet wish to be ruled by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats???

You couldn't make it up!"

S.S.

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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

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