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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British." What amendment is needed to protect the rights of British? | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British." maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one?" Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.." Why would he ask the hospital staff such a question ? It is only natural to put your own country first . It would be odd not to. I am sure that the citizens of most other counties put their own country first . It would be odd not to. | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.. Why would he ask the hospital staff such a question ? It is only natural to put your own country first . It would be odd not to. I am sure that the citizens of most other counties put their own country first . It would be odd not to. " the rights of those people working here who have emigrated to the UK is a no brainer given one would expect our citizens who are and have been working abroad in the EU to want to be able to carry on with their lives.. some of the 'foreigners' will be the descendants of people who stood shoulder to shoulder with us in conflict.. | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.." The hideous old twat hasnt improved with age.....no one gives a shit what you think Norman so stfu | |||
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"You seem to think individual countries within the EU can negotiate individual deals. David Davis did too during the referendum debate. Such a fundamental lack of appreciation of the situation is unforgivable for people making or advocating for such a major decision for the country in any context. But when one of your own main arguments to leave is BECAUSE YOU CANT NEGOTIATE INDIVIDUAL DEALS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES WHILE IN THE EU, that makes you an incompetent stupid dickhead. I'm not sure I can phrase it more gently and still retain the clear stark staring truth. Then again I'm not sure anymore how many people realise the truth is still important. Certainly it is at least 52% don't. It will become apparent in time it was important. " there are deals and there are deals. Each country has always been able to say yes to people, they just can't say no to other EU people. Do you know how many South Americans live in Spain for example? I don't know how else to put this but clearly you are a ..... | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.. Why would he ask the hospital staff such a question ? It is only natural to put your own country first . It would be odd not to. I am sure that the citizens of most other counties put their own country first . It would be odd not to. " There is a difference between putting your own country first and treating people from other countries differently irrespective of which country you happen to be living in. If you live in a particular country, you are, 'de facto', a citizen of that country. Your country of origin is immaterial unless, of course, you happen to be in that country illegally. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? " Exactly 
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"May has said she wants a situation where current EU residents here can stay.....this is sensible. But in return she wants the same rights for UK citizens living in EU countries....this is sensible. It is called negotiations and can be done totally independently of any "trade deals". What isn't sensible is to give away your side of the negotiations and leave the other side able to stab you in the back. The same amendment was put forward in the commons...and defeated massively. The bill will return to the commons and the same will happen again....the Lords are just trying to show they have a purpose. In this case they are just making themselves look silly!" It may not have sounded PC to the brigade and the pretenders to the brigade, but it was grammatical correct what tebbit said,, we call them ex pats, the governments of the countries they live in call them foreign residents, or immigrants,, I totally agree that we need to consider the legal immigrants status, and allow them rights,,,but why the hell would we give out this information before the EU has made a devotion on OUR people living there!! I would love to play poker with you lot,, would you hold your cards facing me please???? X | |||
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"May has said she wants a situation where current EU residents here can stay.....this is sensible. But in return she wants the same rights for UK citizens living in EU countries....this is sensible. It is called negotiations and can be done totally independently of any "trade deals". What isn't sensible is to give away your side of the negotiations and leave the other side able to stab you in the back. The same amendment was put forward in the commons...and defeated massively. The bill will return to the commons and the same will happen again....the Lords are just trying to show they have a purpose. In this case they are just making themselves look silly!" People need to get over themselves. The Lords are part of the sovereignty that we all apparently wanted to repatriate. theyre doing what theyre there to do....not exactly complicated is it? | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.. The hideous old twat hasnt improved with age.....no one gives a shit what you think Norman so stfu" I am glad that my parents brought me up not to make derogatory remarks towards other people . Norman Tebitt made considerable sacrifices in looking after his wife who received life changing injuries in the Brighton bomb attach. From his personal experiences I am certain he already has extensive experience of the needs of hospital staff . | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
"and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co.. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
"Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do | |||
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"May has said she wants a situation where current EU residents here can stay.....this is sensible. But in return she wants the same rights for UK citizens living in EU countries....this is sensible. It is called negotiations and can be done totally independently of any "trade deals". What isn't sensible is to give away your side of the negotiations and leave the other side able to stab you in the back. The same amendment was put forward in the commons...and defeated massively. The bill will return to the commons and the same will happen again....the Lords are just trying to show they have a purpose. In this case they are just making themselves look silly! It may not have sounded PC to the brigade and the pretenders to the brigade, but it was grammatical correct what tebbit said,, we call them ex pats, the governments of the countries they live in call them foreign residents, or immigrants,, I totally agree that we need to consider the legal immigrants status, and allow them rights,,,but why the hell would we give out this information before the EU has made a devotion on OUR people living there!! I would love to play poker with you lot,, would you hold your cards facing me please???? X" It's not just showing your cards early, its playing 5 card poker with 4 cards. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do"no.. when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate.. Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc.. they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area.. and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses.. anything else is literally fraud.. you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls.. i do my own, both..  | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both.. "they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done"Referendum to get rid of the lords. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords."No but ideally the Lords would all be politically independant and have no affiliation to any party | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords.
No but ideally the Lords would all be politically independant and have no affiliation to any party"As in they are not part of a party? No-one can be neutrally politically | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords.
No but ideally the Lords would all be politically independant and have no affiliation to any party
As in they are not part of a party? No-one can be neutrally politically "true but I mean never having been an MP or member of a political party. Oh, and the number should be halved | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords."Not get rid of but to make The Lord's a democratically elected chamber is something I'd vote for. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done"As a Ukip supporter/voter it certainly is the reason why I voted Ukip in the MEP elections in 2014. Very happy with the job Ukip have done there. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
"Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all. "So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well."Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well.
Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed. "Glad you agree but it's SNP policy not to have representation in the Lords. Personally, I think they should as it's an important part of the present political set up. I do agree that there needs to be a second house to hold government to account but how it is set up or elected is a difficult question. I'm of the opinion that anyone who puts themselves up for election irrespective of their political leanings is probably not worth voting for. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well.
Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed.
Glad you agree but it's SNP policy not to have representation in the Lords.
Personally, I think they should as it's an important part of the present political set up.
I do agree that there needs to be a second house to hold government to account but how it is set up or elected is a difficult question. I'm of the opinion that anyone who puts themselves up for election irrespective of their political leanings is probably not worth voting for. "This is my solution.. The existing first past the post for constituency MPs... I.e. in the house of commons. As for the Lords, make that PR based on the total number of votes in the general election. That way there's no extra costs in elections, people get who they want in their area, and the country gets proportional representation. Then the way that the lords works as a reforming house with checks and balances could maybe be refined a bit. No more hereditary Lords, and no lordships for mates. Job done. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all. "bit like some people thinking there should be a chocolate fountain in each town centre.. based on fantasy.. not a huge fan of the way the people in the house of Lords are appointed apart from some, but under the current system with only 1 MP (though how long he will remain with Farage and Banks publicly slagging him off is another question) there is little chance of them having anyone in there.. It does not work on how many votes one got, you know that full well so keep hoping.. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well.
Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed.
Glad you agree but it's SNP policy not to have representation in the Lords.
Personally, I think they should as it's an important part of the present political set up.
I do agree that there needs to be a second house to hold government to account but how it is set up or elected is a difficult question. I'm of the opinion that anyone who puts themselves up for election irrespective of their political leanings is probably not worth voting for.
This is my solution..
The existing first past the post for constituency MPs... I.e. in the house of commons.
As for the Lords, make that PR based on the total number of votes in the general election.
That way there's no extra costs in elections, people get who they want in their area, and the country gets proportional representation.
Then the way that the lords works as a reforming house with checks and balances could maybe be refined a bit.
No more hereditary Lords, and no lordships for mates.
Job done.
"would agree on the whole but with less of them, maybe 1 for every 10 MP's.. not sure there is any place for any religious appointments.. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well.
Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed.
Glad you agree but it's SNP policy not to have representation in the Lords.
Personally, I think they should as it's an important part of the present political set up.
I do agree that there needs to be a second house to hold government to account but how it is set up or elected is a difficult question. I'm of the opinion that anyone who puts themselves up for election irrespective of their political leanings is probably not worth voting for.
This is my solution..
The existing first past the post for constituency MPs... I.e. in the house of commons.
As for the Lords, make that PR based on the total number of votes in the general election.
That way there's no extra costs in elections, people get who they want in their area, and the country gets proportional representation.
Then the way that the lords works as a reforming house with checks and balances could maybe be refined a bit.
No more hereditary Lords, and no lordships for mates.
Job done.
would agree on the whole but with less of them, maybe 1 for every 10 MP's..
not sure there is any place for any religious appointments.." | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well.
Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed.
Glad you agree but it's SNP policy not to have representation in the Lords.
Personally, I think they should as it's an important part of the present political set up.
I do agree that there needs to be a second house to hold government to account but how it is set up or elected is a difficult question. I'm of the opinion that anyone who puts themselves up for election irrespective of their political leanings is probably not worth voting for.
This is my solution..
The existing first past the post for constituency MPs... I.e. in the house of commons.
As for the Lords, make that PR based on the total number of votes in the general election.
That way there's no extra costs in elections, people get who they want in their area, and the country gets proportional representation.
Then the way that the lords works as a reforming house with checks and balances could maybe be refined a bit.
No more hereditary Lords, and no lordships for mates.
Job done.
would agree on the whole but with less of them, maybe 1 for every 10 MP's..
not sure there is any place for any religious appointments.."There wouldn't be any religious appointments. Maybe not 1 'lord' for every 10 MPs... That would mean only 60 odd. Say, 1 for every 3 or 4? That would mean 150 to 200. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
So how about some SNP Lords? They got 1.5 million votes. Bet that idea will go down well.
Yes the SNP should have its fair share of Lords too in my view. If it's going to be an unelected chamber then it needs to be more representative of the country in the way Lords are appointed.
Glad you agree but it's SNP policy not to have representation in the Lords.
Personally, I think they should as it's an important part of the present political set up.
I do agree that there needs to be a second house to hold government to account but how it is set up or elected is a difficult question. I'm of the opinion that anyone who puts themselves up for election irrespective of their political leanings is probably not worth voting for.
This is my solution..
The existing first past the post for constituency MPs... I.e. in the house of commons.
As for the Lords, make that PR based on the total number of votes in the general election.
That way there's no extra costs in elections, people get who they want in their area, and the country gets proportional representation.
Then the way that the lords works as a reforming house with checks and balances could maybe be refined a bit.
No more hereditary Lords, and no lordships for mates.
Job done.
would agree on the whole but with less of them, maybe 1 for every 10 MP's..
not sure there is any place for any religious appointments..
There wouldn't be any religious appointments.
Maybe not 1 'lord' for every 10 MPs... That would mean only 60 odd.
Say, 1 for every 3 or 4? That would mean 150 to 200.
"good point on the figures, maybe an equivalent number of none political appointees to balance the place and the debate although whom and how would need working out.. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords.". Yes without doubt, unelected, rich, out of touch clowns!. Only in this country could we possibly think a bunch of unelected 80 year olds are some form of democracy to the people | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
bit like some people thinking there should be a chocolate fountain in each town centre..
based on fantasy..
not a huge fan of the way the people in the house of Lords are appointed apart from some, but under the current system with only 1 MP (though how long he will remain with Farage and Banks publicly slagging him off is another question) there is little chance of them having anyone in there..
It does not work on how many votes one got, you know that full well so keep hoping.. "What about the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, Northern Ireland assembly and the London Assembly? Should they be represented in the House of Lords? | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords..
"There is currently a petition running on the government website to get rid of the Lords as it is and replace it with a directly elected alternative. Around 80,000 signatures at the moment. If people feel strongly about it they can sign it but as with the 'ban Trump' petition don't expect the government to take it seriously. | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. maybe when the stupid old sod is in hospital next he should ask the staff treating him what they think of his attitude.. The hideous old twat hasnt improved with age.....no one gives a shit what you think Norman so stfu I am glad that my parents brought me up not to make derogatory remarks towards other people . Norman Tebitt made considerable sacrifices in looking after his wife who received life changing injuries in the Brighton bomb attach. From his personal experiences I am certain he already has extensive experience of the needs of hospital staff . " Tebbit was a shit long before the Brighton bombing..... | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
bit like some people thinking there should be a chocolate fountain in each town centre..
based on fantasy..
not a huge fan of the way the people in the house of Lords are appointed apart from some, but under the current system with only 1 MP (though how long he will remain with Farage and Banks publicly slagging him off is another question) there is little chance of them having anyone in there..
It does not work on how many votes one got, you know that full well so keep hoping..
What about the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, Northern Ireland assembly and the London Assembly? Should they be represented in the House of Lords? "Thought they were in that members of the main parties with people and MP's from those areas will sit in the upper house, understand your point about has and does it reflect the changes brought about by devolution etc.. Think it's commonly accepted it needs reform or replacement .. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Farage and co did exactly what the electorate elected them to do
no..
when you elected as an MP, MEP etc you are representing the whole of the area from which you have your mandate..
Tory MP's do not only represent the ones in their constituencies who voted Tory, neither do Labour, Lib Dem etc..
they may have stood on a UK out ticket but as a representative they have a duty to also represent their constituencies on all the business which may effect their area..
and UKIP by and large chose not to and still raked in their salary and expenses..
anything else is literally fraud..
you wouldn't hire a decorator who only did ceilings and not walls..
i do my own, both..
they were elected on a mandate to be a thorn in the side of the people runming the EU and to get us out of there. Job done
Referendum to get rid of the lords..
Yes without doubt, unelected, rich, out of touch clowns!.
Only in this country could we possibly think a bunch of unelected 80 year olds are some form of democracy to the people"In fact, the average age in the House of Lords is only 69. By comparison, the average age in the Houses of Parliament is 50 so there's not a significant difference. I'm not arguing in favour of the House of Lords and, in fact, believe it should be radically revised to an elected second house but there is really no point in suggesting they are all geriatric 80 year olds. There are almost 200 crossbench or non-affiliated life peers, many of whom have extensive life experience in either industry or other important aspects of our society. These, I feel, are the kind of people that should be in a second house. People who have achieved some success for the country and have no particular political axe to grind. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
bit like some people thinking there should be a chocolate fountain in each town centre..
based on fantasy..
not a huge fan of the way the people in the house of Lords are appointed apart from some, but under the current system with only 1 MP (though how long he will remain with Farage and Banks publicly slagging him off is another question) there is little chance of them having anyone in there..
It does not work on how many votes one got, you know that full well so keep hoping..
What about the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, Northern Ireland assembly and the London Assembly? Should they be represented in the House of Lords?
Thought they were in that members of the main parties with people and MP's from those areas will sit in the upper house, understand your point about has and does it reflect the changes brought about by devolution etc..
Think it's commonly accepted it needs reform or replacement .."Ukip have 7 elected members in the Welsh assembly and 2 elected members in the London assembly. Only 2 members in the House of Lords. | |||
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"he takes money to ask questions in the lords, so i wonder which shitty little right winger was bank rolling this one? Like the EU bank rolling Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and others with generous EU pensions, which faceless Euro loon in Brussels pre scripted their Lords questions for them? Exactly
and every single UKIP mep, at least some of the above mentioned actually participated in representing their electorate unlike Farage and co..
Ukip should have more representatives in the Lords, considering they got 4 million votes at the general election and won the MEP elections in 2014. I think they only have 2 Lords. This is why the Lords is completely out of touch with the country and not representative of the country at all.
bit like some people thinking there should be a chocolate fountain in each town centre..
based on fantasy..
not a huge fan of the way the people in the house of Lords are appointed apart from some, but under the current system with only 1 MP (though how long he will remain with Farage and Banks publicly slagging him off is another question) there is little chance of them having anyone in there..
It does not work on how many votes one got, you know that full well so keep hoping..
What about the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Parliament, Northern Ireland assembly and the London Assembly? Should they be represented in the House of Lords?
Thought they were in that members of the main parties with people and MP's from those areas will sit in the upper house, understand your point about has and does it reflect the changes brought about by devolution etc..
Think it's commonly accepted it needs reform or replacement ..
Ukip have 7 elected members in the Welsh assembly and 2 elected members in the London assembly. Only 2 members in the House of Lords. "Maybe those who do the appointing do not deem some of them 'worthy' or meet the criteria, Neil Hamilton is one of those your talking about.. | |||
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"There is always this call to get rid of the Lords when it refuses to rubber stamp contentious and divisive legislation, and usually time proves the Lords right to seriously question whatever is being proposed." ditto the judiciary it appears.. | |||
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" I, for one, do not want to see the House of Lords abolished or reformed. For all the complaints about it being unelected jobs for life that is its true strength. Piers are a law unto themselves, parties can't deselect them, the media cant run smear campaigns to make them unelectable. As a result they are truly independent and can vote their conscience rather than party lines." Which this A50 ammendment by the Lords shows that it's working very well considering the Conservatives have the largest share of Lords they can still hold the Conservative government to account by requiring ammendments and not just push through their parties wishes. | |||
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"Poker is a you win, they lose situation. Is that the approach we should adopt? " No, Poker is a someone wins, someone loses situation. | |||
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" I, for one, do not want to see the House of Lords abolished or reformed. For all the complaints about it being unelected jobs for life that is its true strength. Piers are a law unto themselves, parties can't deselect them, the media cant run smear campaigns to make them unelectable. As a result they are truly independent and can vote their conscience rather than party lines. Which this A50 ammendment by the Lords shows that it's working very well considering the Conservatives have the largest share of Lords they can still hold the Conservative government to account by requiring ammendments and not just push through their parties wishes." There are 804 Lords, 252 of which are conservative. The tories have the largest individual share, but do not hold a majority. In fact, they do not have the power to 'push' anything through without substantial support from others. | |||
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"There is always this call to get rid of the Lords when it refuses to rubber stamp contentious and divisive legislation, and usually time proves the Lords right to seriously question whatever is being proposed. I, for one, do not want to see the House of Lords abolished or reformed. For all the complaints about it being unelected jobs for life that is its true strength. Piers are a law unto themselves, parties can't deselect them, the media cant run smear campaigns to make them unelectable. As a result they are truly independent and can vote their conscience rather than party lines."
My only caveat would be to allow fewer political appointees. Preferably none.
This is actually the country's council of elders.
Which of those who want the Lords abolished or radically reformed can succinctly write down what its purpose is?
Which of those who want an elected upper house can tell me how it will be different from the lower house? | |||
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"Tebbit was a union shop steward to all intents and purposes once upon a time. That's just amusing. I was brought up thinking that kindness was an end in itself. I quite like that there is some part of our government being kind and giving people who've lived worked in this country for years together with there families some sense that their status is important. It's not even definitive. Just a proposals. I don't care who said what about when negotiations happen. Don't bargain with people. It's up to us to do the right bloody thing!" Its upto the government to do the right thing by UK nationals living in the EU, (who you seem to continually dismiss in your posts) and that means not leaving their fate upto the whim of the likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Angela Merkel. This must be a 2 way reciprocal deal for both EU nationals here and UK nationals in the EU which the EU have made clear can only be agreed once article 50 is triggered. | |||
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"Tebbit was a union shop steward to all intents and purposes once upon a time. That's just amusing. I was brought up thinking that kindness was an end in itself. I quite like that there is some part of our government being kind and giving people who've lived worked in this country for years together with there families some sense that their status is important. It's not even definitive. Just a proposals. I don't care who said what about when negotiations happen. Don't bargain with people. It's up to us to do the right bloody thing! Its upto the government to do the right thing by UK nationals living in the EU, (who you seem to continually dismiss in your posts) and that means not leaving their fate upto the whim of the likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Angela Merkel. This must be a 2 way reciprocal deal for both EU nationals here and UK nationals in the EU which the EU have made clear can only be agreed once article 50 is triggered. " Do tell me where I've dismissed UK nationals? It would be so much easier if you didn't assume that if some one doesn't agree with you they want exactly the opposite. Of course, that would make it more complicated for you to make a pronouncement uncluttered by the complexity of reality 
I do wish that when you changed your story on the EU position you wouldn't just use the one I posted 
I'm sure the EU doesn't really trust Jonson, Fox, Davis and May, but I've said that before too. I may as well repeat the same thing again and again just like you do 
Is the phrase "BRING FORWARD PROPOSALS" a complex thing to get a grip of?
What do you think it means? | |||
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"Tebbit was a union shop steward to all intents and purposes once upon a time. That's just amusing. I was brought up thinking that kindness was an end in itself. I quite like that there is some part of our government being kind and giving people who've lived worked in this country for years together with there families some sense that their status is important. It's not even definitive. Just a proposals. I don't care who said what about when negotiations happen. Don't bargain with people. It's up to us to do the right bloody thing! Its upto the government to do the right thing by UK nationals living in the EU, (who you seem to continually dismiss in your posts) and that means not leaving their fate upto the whim of the likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Angela Merkel. This must be a 2 way reciprocal deal for both EU nationals here and UK nationals in the EU which the EU have made clear can only be agreed once article 50 is triggered. Do tell me where I've dismissed UK nationals? " There was no mention of Uk nationals rights in the EU in your post which i quoted. All you are concerned with is the rights of EU nationals here in the uk. | |||
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"Tebbit was a union shop steward to all intents and purposes once upon a time. That's just amusing. I was brought up thinking that kindness was an end in itself. I quite like that there is some part of our government being kind and giving people who've lived worked in this country for years together with there families some sense that their status is important. It's not even definitive. Just a proposals. I don't care who said what about when negotiations happen. Don't bargain with people. It's up to us to do the right bloody thing! Its upto the government to do the right thing by UK nationals living in the EU, (who you seem to continually dismiss in your posts) and that means not leaving their fate upto the whim of the likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Angela Merkel. This must be a 2 way reciprocal deal for both EU nationals here and UK nationals in the EU which the EU have made clear can only be agreed once article 50 is triggered. Do tell me where I've dismissed UK nationals? There was no mention of Uk nationals rights in the EU in your post which i quoted. All you are concerned with is the rights of EU nationals here in the uk. " Don't try and insinuate disloyalty to the UK and imply that I have no regard for their status. Cheap and nasty. Be explicit if that's what you mean and see how foolish it looks written down. You could just read my full response to your post, try and understand the meaning of the words and phrases in it. Then, perhaps, address what the actual wording of the amendment means and explain what's so outrageous about behaving decently and making it clear that's what you intend to do. | |||
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"Tebbit was a union shop steward to all intents and purposes once upon a time. That's just amusing. I was brought up thinking that kindness was an end in itself. I quite like that there is some part of our government being kind and giving people who've lived worked in this country for years together with there families some sense that their status is important. It's not even definitive. Just a proposals. I don't care who said what about when negotiations happen. Don't bargain with people. It's up to us to do the right bloody thing! Its upto the government to do the right thing by UK nationals living in the EU, (who you seem to continually dismiss in your posts) and that means not leaving their fate upto the whim of the likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Angela Merkel. This must be a 2 way reciprocal deal for both EU nationals here and UK nationals in the EU which the EU have made clear can only be agreed once article 50 is triggered. Do tell me where I've dismissed UK nationals? There was no mention of Uk nationals rights in the EU in your post which i quoted. All you are concerned with is the rights of EU nationals here in the uk. " Even rabid brexiteers like Gove and Raab are now in favour of ceasing to use EU nationals as a bargaining ploy. When they realise it's wrong and shameful you know that there is no case for playing silly buggers | |||
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"Tebbit was a union shop steward to all intents and purposes once upon a time. That's just amusing. I was brought up thinking that kindness was an end in itself. I quite like that there is some part of our government being kind and giving people who've lived worked in this country for years together with there families some sense that their status is important. It's not even definitive. Just a proposals. I don't care who said what about when negotiations happen. Don't bargain with people. It's up to us to do the right bloody thing! Its upto the government to do the right thing by UK nationals living in the EU, (who you seem to continually dismiss in your posts) and that means not leaving their fate upto the whim of the likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Angela Merkel. This must be a 2 way reciprocal deal for both EU nationals here and UK nationals in the EU which the EU have made clear can only be agreed once article 50 is triggered. Do tell me where I've dismissed UK nationals? There was no mention of Uk nationals rights in the EU in your post which i quoted. All you are concerned with is the rights of EU nationals here in the uk. Even rabid brexiteers like Gove and Raab are now in favour of ceasing to use EU nationals as a bargaining ploy. When they realise it's wrong and shameful you know that there is no case for playing silly buggers" You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst" Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse." Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks? | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric?" On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks?" There's no evidence anecdotal or statistical to indicate that. Perhaps I might stretch to an impression that black Africans do, but that is unsubstantiated. Happy? | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks? There's no evidence anecdotal or statistical to indicate that. Perhaps I might stretch to an impression that black Africans do, but that is unsubstantiated. Happy?" I think you missed the point | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they?" Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? What has our rhetoric been to date? | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? What has our rhetoric been to date?" Are you kidding?  | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks?" They work the same | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks?They work the same" Of course they do. And so do the British | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks?They work the same Of course they do. And so do the British" Yes but not compared to the others and slavic ones. | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks?They work the same Of course they do. And so do the BritishYes but not compared to the others and slavic ones." Is that true or racist? If it is true then why don't they work a bit harder to make a success of the countries they come from? If it was not for the hard work of the British in the first place then maybe there wouldn't be so many people wanting to come to the UK and jump on the bandwagon would there? | |||
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"Because they work harder than the brits, without them the nhs would collapse. Would you dare say whites work harder than blacks?They work the same Of course they do. And so do the BritishYes but not compared to the others and slavic ones. Is that true or racist? If it is true then why don't they work a bit harder to make a success of the countries they come from? If it was not for the hard work of the British in the first place then maybe there wouldn't be so many people wanting to come to the UK and jump on the bandwagon would there?" It is true as many emplouyers have tried to employ brits, but non of them wanted it, whilst they was inundated from the others, of course it depends if someone is a brexiter or not dont want to beleive it. | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? What has our rhetoric been to date? Are you kidding? "No, I'm not. Quote to me. Who's actually said what? You often make transitions in reported opinions made by others being "common knowledge". Time to back it up. | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? What has our rhetoric been to date? Are you kidding?
No, I'm not.
Quote to me. Who's actually said what?
You often make transitions in reported opinions made by others being "common knowledge".
Time to back it up."Well apart from threats about access to the single market, the ridiculous exit fee being being bandied about and Juncker wanting the Commission involved in negotiations instead of the Council in case any of the members wanted to treat the UK favourably, he said in a speech the other week at the anniversary of the Maastricht Treaty, that 'any country that left the EU, including the UK, would not survive.' So what does that mean? Why wouldn't it? Is that a threat? An opinion? Or would he want to punish them? Or maybe words like that are justified in your eyes because its all the fault of the big bad UK | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they?" Paranoid | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? What has our rhetoric been to date? Are you kidding?
No, I'm not.
Quote to me. Who's actually said what?
You often make transitions in reported opinions made by others being "common knowledge".
Time to back it up.
Well apart from threats about access to the single market, the ridiculous exit fee being being bandied about and Juncker wanting the Commission involved in negotiations instead of the Council in case any of the members wanted to treat the UK favourably, he said in a speech the other week at the anniversary of the Maastricht Treaty, that 'any country that left the EU, including the UK, would not survive.'
So what does that mean?
Why wouldn't it? Is that a threat? An opinion? Or would he want to punish them?
Or maybe words like that are justified in your eyes because its all the fault of the big bad UK"Well done. Excellent research. I've been able to find all of the information that you provided to substantiate your assertions 
Do explain what the threats are. Only members of the EU or EFTA have.full tariff free access to the EU. They all have free movement of citizens as part of that agreement.
We've said that we don't want to be part of the EU or EFTA nor do we want free movement.
What's your point there?
The Commission negotiates all trade deals. How is this different?
So having read the speech on the EU site
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-16-4343_en.htm
This is the relevant section which certain sections of our press have creatively reinterpreted. Difficult to read this as a threat unless you're particularly thin skinned:
"Europe is the smallest continent. We do not know it. The European Union, that is 5.5 million square kilometres. Russia: 17.5. Questions? We are a relevant part of the global economy: 25% of the global GPD. In 10 years from now, it will be 15%. In 20 years from now, not one single Member State of the European Union will be a member of the G7. Questions? And from a demographic point of view, we are not really disappearing, but we are losing demographic weight. At the beginning of the 20th century, the Europeans represented 20% of the human kind. Now, at the beginning of this century: 7%. At the end of this century: 4% out of 10 billion people. So those who do think that time has come to deconstruct, to put Europe in pieces, to subdivide us in national divisions, are totally wrong. We will not exist as single nations without the European Union."
Don't cast me as unpatriotic either. I don't appreciate that at all. It's lazy.
If your going into a negotiation you look at the other side's goals and objectives and understand how your position works with or against it.
Have we said anything nice? Is it all them? | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? What has our rhetoric been to date? Are you kidding?
No, I'm not.
Quote to me. Who's actually said what?
You often make transitions in reported opinions made by others being "common knowledge".
Time to back it up.
Well apart from threats about access to the single market, the ridiculous exit fee being being bandied about and Juncker wanting the Commission involved in negotiations instead of the Council in case any of the members wanted to treat the UK favourably, he said in a speech the other week at the anniversary of the Maastricht Treaty, that 'any country that left the EU, including the UK, would not survive.'
So what does that mean?
Why wouldn't it? Is that a threat? An opinion? Or would he want to punish them?
Or maybe words like that are justified in your eyes because its all the fault of the big bad UK
Well done. Excellent research. I've been able to find all of the information that you provided to substantiate your assertions
Do explain what the threats are. Only members of the EU or EFTA have.full tariff free access to the EU. They all have free movement of citizens as part of that agreement.
We've said that we don't want to be part of the EU or EFTA nor do we want free movement.
What's your point there?
The Commission negotiates all trade deals. How is this different?
So having read the speech on the EU site
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-16-4343_en.htm
This is the relevant section which certain sections of our press have creatively reinterpreted. Difficult to read this as a threat unless you're particularly thin skinned:
"Europe is the smallest continent. We do not know it. The European Union, that is 5.5 million square kilometres. Russia: 17.5. Questions? We are a relevant part of the global economy: 25% of the global GPD. In 10 years from now, it will be 15%. In 20 years from now, not one single Member State of the European Union will be a member of the G7. Questions? And from a demographic point of view, we are not really disappearing, but we are losing demographic weight. At the beginning of the 20th century, the Europeans represented 20% of the human kind. Now, at the beginning of this century: 7%. At the end of this century: 4% out of 10 billion people. So those who do think that time has come to deconstruct, to put Europe in pieces, to subdivide us in national divisions, are totally wrong. We will not exist as single nations without the European Union."
Don't cast me as unpatriotic either. I don't appreciate that at all. It's lazy.
If your going into a negotiation you look at the other side's goals and objectives and understand how your position works with or against it.
Have we said anything nice? Is it all them?"Missed the exit fee. We have agreed to pay into the on-going budget and have liabilities for pensions. To be negotiated. Usually the people who are paying go low and those being paid go high, or do you do things a different way? | |||
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"So if the EU says something its a negotiating position. If the UK says something its bad rhetoric. Unbelievable" Nope. | |||
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"So if the EU says something its a negotiating position. If the UK says something its bad rhetoric. Unbelievable" the voice of falangism | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? " October 6th 2016 Britain will be made to 'pay' for leaving the EU, Francois Hollande has warned. The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. Launching a furious attack on Britain decision to leave the EU, the leader echoed the sentiments of German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Yesterday she said Britain may not be given access to the European Union's internal market if it limits immigration, as it would lead to a free-for-all in Europe. We'll punish the UK for Brexit: Hollande has launched a furious attack on Britain's decision French President Francois Hollande has said Britain would have to 'pay' for the Brexit 'crisis' The head of state's words - were made during a dinner in Paris on Thursday night. French finance minister Michel Sapin made a more direct threat: 'There will be consequences (to Brexit),' he said. 'If not, we would jeopardise the fundamental principles of the EU' he added, warning that other EU countries might be tempted to leave too. The dinner was attended by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, and the EU's main Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier. Mr Hollande's warning comes after the Prime minister Theresa May announced that the UK would trigger the process of leaving the EU by the end of March 2017. Mr Hollande said: 'Europe is our values, a culture, which deserve to be defended fiercely and everywhere. As Delors put it, this is our Europe. German Chancellor Angela Merkel issued the same message on Thursday, warning that the EU could unravel if it compromised. | |||
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"You really think EU countries will play by the rules, you haven't seen dirty play at its worst Based on what? Your attitude? The UK government's rhetoric? On the attitude of the EU. They want to punish us don't they? Says who? Who actually said that and therefore how can you know that is true? October 6th 2016 Britain will be made to 'pay' for leaving the EU, Francois Hollande has warned. The French president said Britain should be punished for Brexit as a warning to other nations. Launching a furious attack on Britain decision to leave the EU, the leader echoed the sentiments of German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Yesterday she said Britain may not be given access to the European Union's internal market if it limits immigration, as it would lead to a free-for-all in Europe. We'll punish the UK for Brexit: Hollande has launched a furious attack on Britain's decision French President Francois Hollande has said Britain would have to 'pay' for the Brexit 'crisis' The head of state's words - were made during a dinner in Paris on Thursday night. French finance minister Michel Sapin made a more direct threat: 'There will be consequences (to Brexit),' he said. 'If not, we would jeopardise the fundamental principles of the EU' he added, warning that other EU countries might be tempted to leave too. The dinner was attended by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, and the EU's main Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier. Mr Hollande's warning comes after the Prime minister Theresa May announced that the UK would trigger the process of leaving the EU by the end of March 2017. Mr Hollande said: 'Europe is our values, a culture, which deserve to be defended fiercely and everywhere. As Delors put it, this is our Europe. German Chancellor Angela Merkel issued the same message on Thursday, warning that the EU could unravel if it compromised. " Nobody actually said "punish" other than our newspapers and the Remain campaign. Spin becomes reality. Demononising the "enemy" is pretty commonplace but the UK is striking pretty much the same tone aren't we? This all came after May's far from diplomatic Tory conference speech and Amber Rudd proposing that firms publish lists of all foreign workers. Hollande was certainly aggressive but not more so than we have been. “The UK has decided to do a Brexit, I believe even a hard Brexit. Well, then we must go all the way through the UK’s willingness to leave the EU. We have to have this firmness,” “If not, we would jeopardise the fundamental principles of the EU. Other countries would want to leave the EU to get the supposed advantages without the obligations.” “There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price. Otherwise we will be in a negotiation that cannot end well.” “Then Ms Thatcher wanted to stay in Europe, but she wanted a cheque in return,” “Now, the UK wants to leave and pay nothing. It’s not possible.” Merkel was pretty consistent but I'm not sure you could interpret it as threatening: There cannot be any cherry picking by Britain in Brexit negotiations,” "If we don't say full access to the internal market is linked to full freedom of movement, then a movement will spread in Europe where everyone just does whatever they want," All seems a bit blah, blah to me. Score draw compared to the UK government position no? | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British." its been this way for years, MP's have the desire to be seen to be treating others outwith the UK well, putting foreigners rights before Brits, being so "PC", they would rather ensure multi billions were spent on overseas aid before even considering the wellbeing of our own home aging British population. but this is all changing, brexit is just the beginning where the Brit working class speak out MP's who do not recognise this will soon be voted out | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British." He also made a lovely speech this morning, he speaks his mind; . "The world is a cleaner and sweeter place": Norman Tebbit brands Martin McGuinness a 'coward and a murderer' | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. He also made a lovely speech this morning, he speaks his mind; . "The world is a cleaner and sweeter place": Norman Tebbit brands Martin McGuinness a 'coward and a murderer' " Hardly surprising given what happened to his wife. However, there have been those who suffered similarly or worse who have been much more forgiving. Living with hatred in your heart does nothing for you and demeans you as a human being. And before you criticise me, I too live with a very painful loss brought about others actions and whilst I don't 'forgive' those responsible, not do I harbour the bitterness that seems to affect Tebbit. | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. He also made a lovely speech this morning, he speaks his mind; . "The world is a cleaner and sweeter place": Norman Tebbit brands Martin McGuinness a 'coward and a murderer' Hardly surprising given what happened to his wife. However, there have been those who suffered similarly or worse who have been much more forgiving. Living with hatred in your heart does nothing for you and demeans you as a human being. And before you criticise me, I too live with a very painful loss brought about others actions and whilst I don't 'forgive' those responsible, not do I harbour the bitterness that seems to affect Tebbit. " If you listened to his full interview he did not sound bitter at all, he just spoke what he felt, absolutely nothing wrong with that I kind of like how he stands up and speaks his mind, good on him, not enough do that, his immigrant speech in the lords was excellent too, none of the pc shit that everyone seems to follow | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British." He was commenting on the proposed amendment to give security of residency to EU citizens here, without getting a reciprocal arrangement for Brits currently resident in EU. How can any sane person argue against that....? [and yes....it galls me to agree with him in anything...but on this he is right] | |||
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" Just seen Norman in the Lords asking why so many are so interested in the rights of foreigners rather than the rights of the British. He also made a lovely speech this morning, he speaks his mind; . "The world is a cleaner and sweeter place": Norman Tebbit brands Martin McGuinness a 'coward and a murderer' Hardly surprising given what happened to his wife. However, there have been those who suffered similarly or worse who have been much more forgiving. Living with hatred in your heart does nothing for you and demeans you as a human being. And before you criticise me, I too live with a very painful loss brought about others actions and whilst I don't 'forgive' those responsible, not do I harbour the bitterness that seems to affect Tebbit. " Well said.. | |||
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"Well I would be bitter as fuck and would have no forgiveness for him! The man authorised murders mameings intimidation bombings ect and the sidestepped prosecution. " YOU my Sir, are absolutely spot on | |||
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