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"Has he got a book coming out?  "Maybe, co-written with his lover John Major  | |||
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"Has he got a book coming out?
Maybe, co-written with his lover John Major "The guy is a cunt who should be shot for treason, he is a dictator and his wife is money grabbing witch | |||
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"Has he got a book coming out?
Maybe, co-written with his lover John Major
The guy is a cunt who should be shot for treason, he is a dictator and his wife is money grabbing witch"stop beating about the bush and tell us what you really think | |||
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"So hated by the left, despised by the right. Dim Tim Faron isn't going to be happy with someone trying to steal his middle ground position. Thing is, is there a middle position with Brexit? " The EU have told us time and time again there is no middle ground. We were told this by EU before the referendum. We were told this by the government leaflet . By the BOE. By the World Bank. By the IMF.....in fact by EVERYONE! Yet Blair insists that we didn't know what we were voting for or against so should have another vote! I have actually got beyond wondering why the media give this irrelevant, has been war criminal any air time..... Thankfully 99% of the population now just totally ignore him. | |||
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"A guy just trying to re run the referendum, unable to accept that he is ever wrong. I really think that he has lost the plot completely (or if not, just taking the money to come out with this shite)" 
I really wish he would take the witch and emigrate to somewhere nasty. This country is too good for him. | |||
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"Been thinking - was Blair and his government one of the first to invent Fake News and 'Alternative Facts'? Iraq's WMDs that can be launched at us 'in 45 minutes'.... convincing us to go to war? " Im pretty sure politicians have been lying since long before Roman Caesars promised to give up power but had to be forced out by the army. | |||
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"On a day when Harvard scientists are starting to bring back the Mammoth, Blair is to make a speech on Brexit. Leaked lines include "people to rise up against Brexit". Why this man isn't in a prison Cell is still beyond me. Blair; relevant or a plain irrelevance?" Tony B.liar is an irrelevance, the man is a war criminal and should be put on trial at the Hague. It's astonishing that he still hasn't got the message how much the British public despise him, he should have crawled back under his rock after the Chilcot inquiry. As for Brexit rather than change people's minds to back Remain he is more likely to do the complete opposite and convince more people to support Brexit. | |||
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"The sooner this cunt crawls back under wich ever rock he has crawled out from the better" took the words out of my mouth. | |||
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"Indeed, I think Blair is horrific and should be in the dock. But for the papers and everyone to claim that him advocating people stand up and be vocal about what they believe in is 'un-democratic' just further plays into the twisted version of democracy we are in now in which the electorate are deliberately mislead and kept in the dark to reduce their power. -Matt" The words he used were RISE UP that is encouraging riots and violence against the democratic vote, well thats what you would say if NF had used the words RISE UP and one of the leaders of the remain camp just that saying the people werent bright enough to know was patronising and insulting | |||
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"Indeed, I think Blair is horrific and should be in the dock. But for the papers and everyone to claim that him advocating people stand up and be vocal about what they believe in is 'un-democratic' just further plays into the twisted version of democracy we are in now in which the electorate are deliberately mislead and kept in the dark to reduce their power. -Matt The words he used were RISE UP that is encouraging riots and violence against the democratic vote, well thats what you would say if NF had used the words RISE UP and one of the leaders of the remain camp just that saying the people werent bright enough to know was patronising and insulting " And I don't remember him calling the papers a right wing cartel when they were backing him to be PM | |||
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Blair is bang on about this though, as he was about a lot of things. | |||
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"Indeed, I think Blair is horrific and should be in the dock. But for the papers and everyone to claim that him advocating people stand up and be vocal about what they believe in is 'un-democratic' just further plays into the twisted version of democracy we are in now in which the electorate are deliberately mislead and kept in the dark to reduce their power. -Matt The words he used were RISE UP that is encouraging riots and violence against the democratic vote, well thats what you would say if NF had used the words RISE UP and one of the leaders of the remain camp just that saying the people werent bright enough to know was patronising and insulting " What about Nigel "I think it's legitimate to say that if people feel they have lost control completely, and we have lost control of our borders completely as members of the EU, and if people feel that voting doesn't change anything then violence is the next step. You must of forgotten joe cox. | |||
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"Indeed, I think Blair is horrific and should be in the dock. But for the papers and everyone to claim that him advocating people stand up and be vocal about what they believe in is 'un-democratic' just further plays into the twisted version of democracy we are in now in which the electorate are deliberately mislead and kept in the dark to reduce their power. -Matt The words he used were RISE UP that is encouraging riots and violence against the democratic vote, well thats what you would say if NF had used the words RISE UP and one of the leaders of the remain camp just that saying the people werent bright enough to know was patronising and insulting What about Nigel "I think it's legitimate to say that if people feel they have lost control completely, and we have lost control of our borders completely as members of the EU, and if people feel that voting doesn't change anything then violence is the next step. You must of forgotten joe cox. "We had a vote and the people spoke and what has JO cox got to do with anything, are you saying that NF encouraged her murder | |||
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"Indeed, I think Blair is horrific and should be in the dock. But for the papers and everyone to claim that him advocating people stand up and be vocal about what they believe in is 'un-democratic' just further plays into the twisted version of democracy we are in now in which the electorate are deliberately mislead and kept in the dark to reduce their power. -Matt The words he used were RISE UP that is encouraging riots and violence against the democratic vote, well thats what you would say if NF had used the words RISE UP and one of the leaders of the remain camp just that saying the people werent bright enough to know was patronising and insulting What about Nigel "I think it's legitimate to say that if people feel they have lost control completely, and we have lost control of our borders completely as members of the EU, and if people feel that voting doesn't change anything then violence is the next step. You must of forgotten joe cox.
We had a vote and the people spoke and what has JO cox got to do with anything, are you saying that NF encouraged her murder "I pointing out NF said violence is an option and yes he does have blood on his hands.But apparently he won without a shot being fired.I am all for violence to create change.One thing me nigel agree upon. | |||
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" Blair is bang on about this though, as he was about a lot of things." | |||
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"Has he got a book coming out?
Maybe, co-written with his lover John Major
The guy is a cunt who should be shot for treason, he is a dictator and his wife is money grabbing witch"Have to agree | |||
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"Out he pops just before 2 by elections and as the article 50 bill goes to the Lords... If I were suspicious or paranoid I would say he is working for the tories and their wealthy backers and deliberately inflaming opinion against Labour." I agree but on reading this thread they are wasting thee money | |||
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"Such a weasil of a man. Should be behind bars." | |||
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"He was included in Jeffrey Epsteins little black book and has had two D notices taken out....This man has skeletons in his cupboard. " Blair is starting to look like a skeleton now. | |||
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"Out he pops just before 2 by elections and as the article 50 bill goes to the Lords... If I were suspicious or paranoid I would say he is working for the tories and their wealthy backers and deliberately inflaming opinion against Labour." Are you mad! Labour don't want any help in inflaming opinion against them, JC is doing a great job by himself.
Heard it said that the Tory Front Bench have asked their back benchers to take it easy on Jc, as the last thing they want is him being removed and someone credible getting to be in charge! | |||
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"Out he pops just before 2 by elections and as the article 50 bill goes to the Lords... If I were suspicious or paranoid I would say he is working for the tories and their wealthy backers and deliberately inflaming opinion against Labour." To be honest, that's what I think the whole "New Labour" movement was, a right-wing agreement to infiltrate the labour movement and neutralise it. | |||
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"Out he pops just before 2 by elections and as the article 50 bill goes to the Lords... If I were suspicious or paranoid I would say he is working for the tories and their wealthy backers and deliberately inflaming opinion against Labour. Are you mad! Labour don't want any help in inflaming opinion against them, JC is doing a great job by himself.
Heard it said that the Tory Front Bench have asked their back benchers to take it easy on Jc, as the last thing they want is him being removed and someone credible getting to be in charge! "I'd agree with that ! It's like I read somewhere , don't know if it's true tho , that I R A actually kept an eye on Ian Paisley to protect him as he helped thier recruitment ? Also Scargill was a gift to Thatcher  | |||
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"the fact that he opened up the NHS to privatisation en-masse and led us into an illegal war, pretty much condemns him in most public eyes." No he did not! I despise the man but he did not open the NHS to privatisation, PFI was a Tory initiative with between a 5 and 10 year lead time. The contracts were written in such a way that any incoming government would be unable to break them. What Tone did was say 'I'll have a slice of that too!' As for Afghanistan and Iraq, they may have been bad choices and the way they were pitched was deceitful and immoral, but they were not illegal, but then tone was just taking a lead from Maggie who also used war as a domestic popularity tool (only she did it better than Tone). | |||
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"He should be facing criminal charges over Iraq. (I'm glad you've all come round to Corbyns position at the time on this ).
"Or rather everyone has come round to George Galloway's position at the time on this. Plus at least Galloway stuck to his principles on Brexit unlike the sell out Corbyn. | |||
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"Judging from the responses on here and the way even bojo was wheeled out, it looks like Blair has got a few worried. He is a fantastic orator. " You're right, Boris is a fantastic orator. Blair is just a money grabbing war criminal. How dare the man reappear and patronise me. Hope he gets laughed out of the country. And take his "do you know who I am", charity robbing wife with him! | |||
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"the fact that he opened up the NHS to privatisation en-masse and led us into an illegal war, pretty much condemns him in most public eyes. No he did not! I despise the man but he did not open the NHS to privatisation, PFI was a Tory initiative with between a 5 and 10 year lead time. The contracts were written in such a way that any incoming government would be unable to break them. What Tone did was say 'I'll have a slice of that too!' As for Afghanistan and Iraq, they may have been bad choices and the way they were pitched was deceitful and immoral, but they were not illegal, but then tone was just taking a lead from Maggie who also used war as a domestic popularity tool (only she did it better than Tone)." Fair enough I didnt know about the incoming scheme which couldnt be broken...thanks for informing me. Seems like Nutall should stop admiring him for opening the door. | |||
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"the fact that he opened up the NHS to privatisation en-masse and led us into an illegal war, pretty much condemns him in most public eyes. No he did not! I despise the man but he did not open the NHS to privatisation, PFI was a Tory initiative with between a 5 and 10 year lead time. The contracts were written in such a way that any incoming government would be unable to break them. What Tone did was say 'I'll have a slice of that too!' As for Afghanistan and Iraq, they may have been bad choices and the way they were pitched was deceitful and immoral, but they were not illegal, but then tone was just taking a lead from Maggie who also used war as a domestic popularity tool (only she did it better than Tone)." PFI was introduced by John Major in 1990 to fund capital projects such as the Skye Roadbridge. It was embraced by the incoming Labour Goverment in 1997, and they moved it into the NHS. Alan Milburn, the then Health Secretary saw it as a way of delivering brand new shiny hospitals to the masses, without increasing the burdening debt mountain. 90% of PFI hospital schemes were signed between 1997-2008, during the reign of Blair/Brown, an unmitigated disaster, costing billions of pounds in interest and service payments a year. Sometimes the truth is an convenient thing for our friends on the left to remember. | |||
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"read the whole 50 posts here and out of the 50, there is only one person shouting his love for that snake in the grass Tony B still, every village has its idiot "Who do you mean? | |||
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"read the whole 50 posts here and out of the 50, there is only one person shouting his love for that snake in the grass Tony B still, every village has its idiot
Who do you mean?"But there isn't even one who's actually putting forward any arguments against what he actually said. But then this is just what we've come to expect from BRECITers; no real arguments for how or why BREXIT is actually going to work or why it's such a good one idea. Just a constant attempt to try to shut down any further discussion on the issues and denigrate anyone who has the nerve to question the myopic BREXIT view of our future. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. " He can say what he likes. Just no mechanism to give any credence to what he said. And yes, we do have a right to change our mind. However, on this occasion, I'm going to stick with my original thought that Blair is just a grubby, money grabbing, war criminal chancer! | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. " so why don't you | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you" In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt" fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it" The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. In which case I would hope they might re-evaluate their position, rather than hold on to the dogmatic view of 'brexit is brexit' regardless. Or as an analogy, which I've used before, if I say "Want to come with me an my mates on holiday, next year?' and you say 'yeah, sure! Where we going?' 'Somewhere warm'. 'Great, let's do it' Then 9 months later, I say "Oh, yeah holiday to Brasil is booked, it'd going to be amazing, we have a 5 star hotel on Copa Cobana beach arranged, and flying first class out there. Just need you to pay your share of the bill, it's £50,000". "fuck, me, that's a bit steep... that's more than I earn a year! I can't afford that" you reply "Yeah, but a holiday is a holiday, and you voted to go on a holiday. It's going to be amazing, best holiday ever... oh and the drinks are reaaaally cheap there, and the women are stunning!". Now, do you stick to it? Now you know that their idea of a 'holiday in the sun' isn't the Easyjet to Costa del Whatever that you envisaged? No, you'd probably change your mind. Did they lie to you? Maybe, maybe not... depends on your viewpoint. They did say they were going somewhere warm... that is true. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. In which case I would hope they might re-evaluate their position, rather than hold on to the dogmatic view of 'brexit is brexit' regardless. Or as an analogy, which I've used before, if I say "Want to come with me an my mates on holiday, next year?' and you say 'yeah, sure! Where we going?' 'Somewhere warm'. 'Great, let's do it' Then 9 months later, I say "Oh, yeah holiday to Brasil is booked, it'd going to be amazing, we have a 5 star hotel on Copa Cobana beach arranged, and flying first class out there. Just need you to pay your share of the bill, it's £50,000". "fuck, me, that's a bit steep... that's more than I earn a year! I can't afford that" you reply "Yeah, but a holiday is a holiday, and you voted to go on a holiday. It's going to be amazing, best holiday ever... oh and the drinks are reaaaally cheap there, and the women are stunning!". Now, do you stick to it? Now you know that their idea of a 'holiday in the sun' isn't the Easyjet to Costa del Whatever that you envisaged? No, you'd probably change your mind. Did they lie to you? Maybe, maybe not... depends on your viewpoint. They did say they were going somewhere warm... that is true. -Matt" you could reverse that analogy to remain | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. In which case I would hope they might re-evaluate their position, rather than hold on to the dogmatic view of 'brexit is brexit' regardless. Or as an analogy, which I've used before, if I say "Want to come with me an my mates on holiday, next year?' and you say 'yeah, sure! Where we going?' 'Somewhere warm'. 'Great, let's do it' Then 9 months later, I say "Oh, yeah holiday to Brasil is booked, it'd going to be amazing, we have a 5 star hotel on Copa Cobana beach arranged, and flying first class out there. Just need you to pay your share of the bill, it's £50,000". "fuck, me, that's a bit steep... that's more than I earn a year! I can't afford that" you reply "Yeah, but a holiday is a holiday, and you voted to go on a holiday. It's going to be amazing, best holiday ever... oh and the drinks are reaaaally cheap there, and the women are stunning!". Now, do you stick to it? Now you know that their idea of a 'holiday in the sun' isn't the Easyjet to Costa del Whatever that you envisaged? No, you'd probably change your mind. Did they lie to you? Maybe, maybe not... depends on your viewpoint. They did say they were going somewhere warm... that is true. -Matt you could reverse that analogy to remain" No you couldn't. The vote to remain was a vote for the status quo. You could argue that some were voting for reform, that is fine.. but if *nothing* happens then we have the status quo. The vote for 'leave' by definition is a vote for change. Hell, that is why some voted for it no doubt. But there was no definition on exactly what was being voted for. ie. it was a vote for change of direction, but not a vote for which direction to then go in. -Matt | |||
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"Do we have to keep voting until the vote to remain campaign get enough votes? Move on we have voted to leave.....and oh BLAIR IS A CUNT" Oh, I agree Blair is a cunt. No doubt about that. Alas, many people are unable to separate issues like 'He is a cunt' from an actual informed and considered thought about their future direction. And no, I think there should be another referendum with an informed public on a specific direction. But I very much doubt that will happen. As, for some reason, people think that would be un-democratic. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. In which case I would hope they might re-evaluate their position, rather than hold on to the dogmatic view of 'brexit is brexit' regardless. Or as an analogy, which I've used before, if I say "Want to come with me an my mates on holiday, next year?' and you say 'yeah, sure! Where we going?' 'Somewhere warm'. 'Great, let's do it' Then 9 months later, I say "Oh, yeah holiday to Brasil is booked, it'd going to be amazing, we have a 5 star hotel on Copa Cobana beach arranged, and flying first class out there. Just need you to pay your share of the bill, it's £50,000". "fuck, me, that's a bit steep... that's more than I earn a year! I can't afford that" you reply "Yeah, but a holiday is a holiday, and you voted to go on a holiday. It's going to be amazing, best holiday ever... oh and the drinks are reaaaally cheap there, and the women are stunning!". Now, do you stick to it? Now you know that their idea of a 'holiday in the sun' isn't the Easyjet to Costa del Whatever that you envisaged? No, you'd probably change your mind. Did they lie to you? Maybe, maybe not... depends on your viewpoint. They did say they were going somewhere warm... that is true. -Matt you could reverse that analogy to remain No you couldn't. The vote to remain was a vote for the status quo. You could argue that some were voting for reform, that is fine.. but if *nothing* happens then we have the status quo. The vote for 'leave' by definition is a vote for change. Hell, that is why some voted for it no doubt. But there was no definition on exactly what was being voted for. ie. it was a vote for change of direction, but not a vote for which direction to then go in. -Matt" but now we have the choice of which direction to go in. Being tied to the EU that wasn't possible. You might be happy with the status quo but the majority who voted aren't. And anyway, how long do you think that the status quo would have lasted? Do you not comprehend what is happening to the EU and in the Eurozone? Before our exit negotiations are even complete it will be a completely different place to the one in which you voted to remain | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. " Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. In which case I would hope they might re-evaluate their position, rather than hold on to the dogmatic view of 'brexit is brexit' regardless. Or as an analogy, which I've used before, if I say "Want to come with me an my mates on holiday, next year?' and you say 'yeah, sure! Where we going?' 'Somewhere warm'. 'Great, let's do it' Then 9 months later, I say "Oh, yeah holiday to Brasil is booked, it'd going to be amazing, we have a 5 star hotel on Copa Cobana beach arranged, and flying first class out there. Just need you to pay your share of the bill, it's £50,000". "fuck, me, that's a bit steep... that's more than I earn a year! I can't afford that" you reply "Yeah, but a holiday is a holiday, and you voted to go on a holiday. It's going to be amazing, best holiday ever... oh and the drinks are reaaaally cheap there, and the women are stunning!". Now, do you stick to it? Now you know that their idea of a 'holiday in the sun' isn't the Easyjet to Costa del Whatever that you envisaged? No, you'd probably change your mind. Did they lie to you? Maybe, maybe not... depends on your viewpoint. They did say they were going somewhere warm... that is true. -Matt you could reverse that analogy to remain No you couldn't. The vote to remain was a vote for the status quo. You could argue that some were voting for reform, that is fine.. but if *nothing* happens then we have the status quo. The vote for 'leave' by definition is a vote for change. Hell, that is why some voted for it no doubt. But there was no definition on exactly what was being voted for. ie. it was a vote for change of direction, but not a vote for which direction to then go in. -Matt but now we have the choice of which direction to go in. Being tied to the EU that wasn't possible. You might be happy with the status quo but the majority who voted aren't. And anyway, how long do you think that the status quo would have lasted? Do you not comprehend what is happening to the EU and in the Eurozone? Before our exit negotiations are even complete it will be a completely different place to the one in which you voted to remain" Right, yes we now have a choice of direction to go in. So which direction shall we go in? Shall we have a referendum to decide? No? Why not? I thought this was a democracy, right? So we should be able to have a referendum on which way to go? What if I think we should go a different way to your way? All we've been told is we will be going the 'best' way. What if I think £50,000 and a 5-star holiday in Brasil is the 'best way'? But you think £300 Easyjet package to Costa del Whatever is the 'best way'? No, no, no... we have a representative democracy, not a republic. We elect officials to carry out our wishes in our best interests and so they get to vote on the best approach of their own free will.... oh wait... bollocks. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. " I don't assume that. You do. And yes, it is possible they voted for all three. Everyone that voted to leave voted for all 3. With exactly the same priority. Of course. No, the reality is that you don't know. Why can't you just accept that? There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". There is something wrong with then trying to pretend you do and make an informed decision based on that. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. " And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s" That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it? | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. I don't assume that. You do. And yes, it is possible they voted for all three. Everyone that voted to leave voted for all 3. With exactly the same priority. Of course. No, the reality is that you don't know. Why can't you just accept that? There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". There is something wrong with then trying to pretend you do and make an informed decision based on that. -Matt" You were assuming, you said "for some it was about immigration, for some it was about the economy, and for some it was about Sovereignty". You are compartmentalising those 3 issues into separate issues and assuming people voted must have voted for one issue or the other. I do know people voted for all 3 issues combined because many of my friends voted Leave and that's what they've told me, i also voted Leave for all 3 issues combined. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. In which case I would hope they might re-evaluate their position, rather than hold on to the dogmatic view of 'brexit is brexit' regardless. Or as an analogy, which I've used before, if I say "Want to come with me an my mates on holiday, next year?' and you say 'yeah, sure! Where we going?' 'Somewhere warm'. 'Great, let's do it' Then 9 months later, I say "Oh, yeah holiday to Brasil is booked, it'd going to be amazing, we have a 5 star hotel on Copa Cobana beach arranged, and flying first class out there. Just need you to pay your share of the bill, it's £50,000". "fuck, me, that's a bit steep... that's more than I earn a year! I can't afford that" you reply "Yeah, but a holiday is a holiday, and you voted to go on a holiday. It's going to be amazing, best holiday ever... oh and the drinks are reaaaally cheap there, and the women are stunning!". Now, do you stick to it? Now you know that their idea of a 'holiday in the sun' isn't the Easyjet to Costa del Whatever that you envisaged? No, you'd probably change your mind. Did they lie to you? Maybe, maybe not... depends on your viewpoint. They did say they were going somewhere warm... that is true. -Matt you could reverse that analogy to remain No you couldn't. The vote to remain was a vote for the status quo. You could argue that some were voting for reform, that is fine.. but if *nothing* happens then we have the status quo. The vote for 'leave' by definition is a vote for change. Hell, that is why some voted for it no doubt. But there was no definition on exactly what was being voted for. ie. it was a vote for change of direction, but not a vote for which direction to then go in. -Matt but now we have the choice of which direction to go in. Being tied to the EU that wasn't possible. You might be happy with the status quo but the majority who voted aren't. And anyway, how long do you think that the status quo would have lasted? Do you not comprehend what is happening to the EU and in the Eurozone? Before our exit negotiations are even complete it will be a completely different place to the one in which you voted to remain Right, yes we now have a choice of direction to go in. So which direction shall we go in? Shall we have a referendum to decide? No? Why not? I thought this was a democracy, right? So we should be able to have a referendum on which way to go? What if I think we should go a different way to your way? All we've been told is we will be going the 'best' way. What if I think £50,000 and a 5-star holiday in Brasil is the 'best way'? But you think £300 Easyjet package to Costa del Whatever is the 'best way'? No, no, no... we have a representative democracy, not a republic. We elect officials to carry out our wishes in our best interests and so they get to vote on the best approach of their own free will.... oh wait... bollocks. -Matt" we had a referendum on which way to go and democracy, ie the vote in parliament, said that the government will put that direction into practice, whether you or I like it is now irrelevant | |||
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"Fine. If the final deal is no deal, remainers should be content. If the final deal is the same as Norway's leavers should be content. Agreed, or would the emphasis of this discussion be different if the latter option was more likely? "You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal. | |||
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"Fine. If the final deal is no deal, remainers should be content. If the final deal is the same as Norway's leavers should be content. Agreed, or would the emphasis of this discussion be different if the latter option was more likely?
You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal. "thats because a Norway type deal would be worse than the one we've already got. We are a far bigger country with a far more diverse economy, some people just don't get it | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. I don't assume that. You do. And yes, it is possible they voted for all three. Everyone that voted to leave voted for all 3. With exactly the same priority. Of course. No, the reality is that you don't know. Why can't you just accept that? There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". There is something wrong with then trying to pretend you do and make an informed decision based on that. -Matt" If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it?" The guy putting forward the case for Remain in the interview Ian Dunt even had to agree there in the interview that polling shows around 62%-64% of people both Leavers and Remainers now just want to get on with Brexit. The Brexit strategy has already been laid out by the Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the Government white paper. The poll which showed the 64% want to get on with Brexit was released after Teresa May's speech and after the white paper was released, so people know what the strategy is and 64% just want to get on with it. | |||
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" You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal. thats because a Norway type deal would be worse than the one we've already got. We are a far bigger country with a far more diverse economy, some people just don't get it" I do understand your position. There is only one option for Brexit. Your option. Nothing else is possible. No one should challenge it. Is that correct? | |||
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"Fine. If the final deal is no deal, remainers should be content. If the final deal is the same as Norway's leavers should be content. Agreed, or would the emphasis of this discussion be different if the latter option was more likely?
You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal.
thats because a Norway type deal would be worse than the one we've already got. We are a far bigger country with a far more diverse economy, some people just don't get it"Neither of you did actually address my question did you? You both picked your own ones to answer, although I am used to that now
The same way that Farage's position that a 52/48% decision to remain would mean unfinished business is never responded to  | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it? The guy putting forward the case for Remain in the interview Ian Dunt even had to agree there in the interview that polling shows around 62%-64% of people both Leavers and Remainers now just want to get on with Brexit. The Brexit strategy has already been laid out by the Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the Government white paper. The poll which showed the 64% want to get on with Brexit was released after Teresa May's speech and after the white paper was released, so people know what the strategy is and 64% just want to get on with it. " | |||
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" You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal. thats because a Norway type deal would be worse than the one we've already got. We are a far bigger country with a far more diverse economy, some people just don't get it I do understand your position. There is only one option for Brexit. Your option. Nothing else is possible. No one should challenge it. Is that correct?" Are you not the same? One option Remain we had a referendum we voted leave right or wrong I don't think another referendum will solve anything. What would it say on the ballot sheet how many options would there be? We were asked a straight question on 23rd June 2016 Remain in the EU or Leave the EU its up to the government what happens now that is what they are there for. | |||
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"Just 35% of the public back hard brexit. Most (54%) want the negotiations extended until there was a deal and a second referendum. So they may not like Blair but they agree with him. " How do you know what all those people want have you been and asked them all or do you believe what the polls say? As for Blair he should keep a low profile and be thankfull he,s not in jail. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with." Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt | |||
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"Just 35% of the public back hard brexit. Most (54%) want the negotiations extended until there was a deal and a second referendum. So they may not like Blair but they agree with him. How do you know what all those people want have you been and asked them all or do you believe what the polls say? " Arrrgggggg... the irony... it buuuuuurnsss.... -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it? The guy putting forward the case for Remain in the interview Ian Dunt even had to agree there in the interview that polling shows around 62%-64% of people both Leavers and Remainers now just want to get on with Brexit. The Brexit strategy has already been laid out by the Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the Government white paper. The poll which showed the 64% want to get on with Brexit was released after Teresa May's speech and after the white paper was released, so people know what the strategy is and 64% just want to get on with it. " So polls that confirm or support your opinion are acceptable but those that don't are not? | |||
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"You were assuming, you said "for some it was about immigration, for some it was about the economy, and for some it was about Sovereignty". You are compartmentalising those 3 issues into separate issues and assuming people voted must have voted for one issue or the other. I do know people voted for all 3 issues combined because many of my friends voted Leave and that's what they've told me, i also voted Leave for all 3 issues combined. " Yes, I said "for some it was about..." sloppy wording on my behalf. I apologise. I should have said "for some the priority was...". I'll save you your next post and type it for you: "But I put all 3 on equal highest priority, so do all my friends.". OK great, so if there has to be a compromise on an issue. If one has to concede a bit for another to happen. What is your priority? And are you REALLY sure that that represents EVERYONE the same? That is what you appear to be saying. Your next post will then be something like: "But we can have all 3, we are having hard brexit, we are leaving. The world will be a better place. la la la la" And I'll probably reply something about it being hard to argue a coherent point with a fantasist. You'll probably call be a remoaner. And we'll go home and have our tea and start again in the morning. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it? The guy putting forward the case for Remain in the interview Ian Dunt even had to agree there in the interview that polling shows around 62%-64% of people both Leavers and Remainers now just want to get on with Brexit. The Brexit strategy has already been laid out by the Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the Government white paper. The poll which showed the 64% want to get on with Brexit was released after Teresa May's speech and after the white paper was released, so people know what the strategy is and 64% just want to get on with it. So polls that confirm or support your opinion are acceptable but those that don't are not?" How about we have a really good poll and try to ask everyone in the country their view on it? 
-Matt | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt" You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time." Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. " You didn't vote Leave though did you, you voted Remain. I voted Leave and i'm very, very happy with the vision of Brexit Teresa May and the government have put forward in their Brexit plan/strategy. The thinking has gone further than "we're just leaving", the government have clearly taken pointers from the Vote Leave campaign and the issues that were raised and the arguments that were put forward by the Leave campaigns. Those issues and arguments have now been put together into a Brexit plan/strategy as laid out by Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house, and in the government white paper. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it? The guy putting forward the case for Remain in the interview Ian Dunt even had to agree there in the interview that polling shows around 62%-64% of people both Leavers and Remainers now just want to get on with Brexit. The Brexit strategy has already been laid out by the Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the Government white paper. The poll which showed the 64% want to get on with Brexit was released after Teresa May's speech and after the white paper was released, so people know what the strategy is and 64% just want to get on with it. So polls that confirm or support your opinion are acceptable but those that don't are not? How about we have a really good poll and try to ask everyone in the country their view on it?
-Matt"We did on June 23rd last year and 52% decided they want to Leave the EU. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt" There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can." I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. You didn't vote Leave though did you, you voted Remain. I voted Leave and i'm very, very happy with the vision of Brexit Teresa May and the government have put forward in their Brexit plan/strategy. The thinking has gone further than "we're just leaving", the government have clearly taken pointers from the Vote Leave campaign and the issues that were raised and the arguments that were put forward by the Leave campaigns. Those issues and arguments have now been put together into a Brexit plan/strategy as laid out by Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house, and in the government white paper. " The Brexit white paper that contained virtually no substance at all? That one? The one that was produced *after* the house of parliament got to vote on it. The one that was hurriedly put together and contained basic factual mistakes. And people wonder why I don't believe that this government has the skills and competence to get us 'the best deal' for us leaving the EU. -Matt | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt" So who do you think has the skills to get us a good deal? | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt So who do you think has the skills to get us a good deal?" No-one at the moment. Hence why I don't think we should have started to leave. I think the government should have drawn up plans first as to all of the agreements and contracts etc that we will need to re-negotiate. Put an estimate on how much it would cost and then asked the public if that was a plan they would back. But of course, they didn't. Because they didn't think they would win. Because the referendum was never about actually leaving the EU. It was only offered up as a way to stop in-fighting between the Tory right. -Matt | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt So who do you think has the skills to get us a good deal? No-one at the moment. Hence why I don't think we should have started to leave. I think the government should have drawn up plans first as to all of the agreements and contracts etc that we will need to re-negotiate. Put an estimate on how much it would cost and then asked the public if that was a plan they would back. But of course, they didn't. Because they didn't think they would win. Because the referendum was never about actually leaving the EU. It was only offered up as a way to stop in-fighting between the Tory right. -Matt" So why do you keep having a go at Brexiters when it is the government you should angry with or should I say DAVID CAMERON. The EU are also to blame they know they need to reform so why don't they get on with it and maybe Brexit would never haver happened. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt So who do you think has the skills to get us a good deal? No-one at the moment. Hence why I don't think we should have started to leave. I think the government should have drawn up plans first as to all of the agreements and contracts etc that we will need to re-negotiate. Put an estimate on how much it would cost and then asked the public if that was a plan they would back. But of course, they didn't. Because they didn't think they would win. Because the referendum was never about actually leaving the EU. It was only offered up as a way to stop in-fighting between the Tory right. -Matt So why do you keep having a go at Brexiters when it is the government you should angry with or should I say DAVID CAMERON. The EU are also to blame they know they need to reform so why don't they get on with it and maybe Brexit would never haver happened." I'm not having a got a Brexiteers. I'm having a go at people who portray blind optimism and wishful thinking as fact. I am having a go at people who claim to somehow know what the public want out of Brexit or that everyone voted for the same reason or has the same priorities. They just happen to in the main, be brexiteers. And for the record I am angry with the government. I just don't understand why those that voted for brexit seem so happy with the shambles they are making of this. -Matt | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt So who do you think has the skills to get us a good deal? No-one at the moment. Hence why I don't think we should have started to leave. I think the government should have drawn up plans first as to all of the agreements and contracts etc that we will need to re-negotiate. Put an estimate on how much it would cost and then asked the public if that was a plan they would back. But of course, they didn't. Because they didn't think they would win. Because the referendum was never about actually leaving the EU. It was only offered up as a way to stop in-fighting between the Tory right. -Matt So why do you keep having a go at Brexiters when it is the government you should angry with or should I say DAVID CAMERON. The EU are also to blame they know they need to reform so why don't they get on with it and maybe Brexit would never haver happened. I'm not having a got a Brexiteers. I'm having a go at people who portray blind optimism and wishful thinking as fact. I am having a go at people who claim to somehow know what the public want out of Brexit or that everyone voted for the same reason or has the same priorities. They just happen to in the main, be brexiteers. And for the record I am angry with the government. I just don't understand why those that voted for brexit seem so happy with the shambles they are making of this. -Matt" None of us will know what a shambles it is for 2 years a lot can happen in 2 years. 3 EU countries have Elections this alone Greece will have to do something about their debt Italy are also having problems. It could be a whole different EU in 2 years time, an EU you may well be glad to leave. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 19/02/17 14:11:20]" I was meant to post this on my brexit effect. | |||
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" You didn't vote Leave though did you, you voted Remain. I voted Leave and i'm very, very happy with the vision of Brexit Teresa May and the government have put forward in their Brexit plan/strategy. The thinking has gone further than "we're just leaving", the government have clearly taken pointers from the Vote Leave campaign and the issues that were raised and the arguments that were put forward by the Leave campaigns. Those issues and arguments have now been put together into a Brexit plan/strategy as laid out by Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house, and in the government white paper. " Just for the record, there has been a Yougov poll running since the referendum asking 1700 people a week "In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?" The margin between Right and Wrong remains pretty consistently at 4%, occasionally dipping to 1%. So we leave. NOBODY THIS THREAD HAS SAID OTHERWISE so please feel free not to bother implying otherwise. However the number of people who Don't Know, runs at 12%. So is it possible that there is no overwhelming mandate. The population is actually pretty "meh" about the issue until it actually starts to affect them or they at least know what they are getting. Of course, because many leavers like the current proposal and they believe no deal would be equally great they don't want anyone to have a say on the outcome of the negotiations. The "We want the cake and eat it" white paper which nobody could disagree with is a starting point for negotiations isn't it? What if the final agreement includes limited free movement and a financial contribution to retain market and research access? Would that be acceptable without further reference to the population? 52% to 48%. Unfinished business according to Farage so remainers can "moan" all they like and try to change the outcome should they wish to surely? | |||
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" None of us will know what a shambles it is for 2 years a lot can happen in 2 years. 3 EU countries have Elections this alone Greece will have to do something about their debt Italy are also having problems. It could be a whole different EU in 2 years time, an EU you may well be glad to leave." We are leaving though. The question is about what the terms are and the consequences of the current all or nothing approach. Fighting Brexit doesn't necessarily mean preventing it. Is it not acceptable to oppose the current all or nothing strategy and still want the best for the UK? | |||
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" You didn't vote Leave though did you, you voted Remain. I voted Leave and i'm very, very happy with the vision of Brexit Teresa May and the government have put forward in their Brexit plan/strategy. The thinking has gone further than "we're just leaving", the government have clearly taken pointers from the Vote Leave campaign and the issues that were raised and the arguments that were put forward by the Leave campaigns. Those issues and arguments have now been put together into a Brexit plan/strategy as laid out by Prime Minister Teresa May in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house, and in the government white paper. Just for the record, there has been a Yougov poll running since the referendum asking 1700 people a week "In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?" The margin between Right and Wrong remains pretty consistently at 4%, occasionally dipping to 1%. So we leave. NOBODY THIS THREAD HAS SAID OTHERWISE so please feel free not to bother implying otherwise. However the number of people who Don't Know, runs at 12%. So is it possible that there is no overwhelming mandate. The population is actually pretty "meh" about the issue until it actually starts to affect them or they at least know what they are getting. Of course, because many leavers like the current proposal and they believe no deal would be equally great they don't want anyone to have a say on the outcome of the negotiations. The "We want the cake and eat it" white paper which nobody could disagree with is a starting point for negotiations isn't it? What if the final agreement includes limited free movement and a financial contribution to retain market and research access? Would that be acceptable without further reference to the population? 52% to 48%. Unfinished business according to Farage so remainers can "moan" all they like and try to change the outcome should they wish to surely? "what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it | |||
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" None of us will know what a shambles it is for 2 years a lot can happen in 2 years. 3 EU countries have Elections this alone Greece will have to do something about their debt Italy are also having problems. It could be a whole different EU in 2 years time, an EU you may well be glad to leave. We are leaving though. The question is about what the terms are and the consequences of the current all or nothing approach. Fighting Brexit doesn't necessarily mean preventing it. Is it not acceptable to oppose the current all or nothing strategy and still want the best for the UK?" Yes but we all want something different what is right for you may not be right for me so do we just keep arguing or let the government got on with it. There will be no best deal if we put our cards on the table to start with ask for everything at the start and barter your way to a deal at the end. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it" Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. | |||
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" Yes but we all want something different what is right for you may not be right for me so do we just keep arguing or let the government got on with it. There will be no best deal if we put our cards on the table to start with ask for everything at the start and barter your way to a deal at the end." I do see your point. It is being couched in very hostile terms which do not make for a good negotiating environment. This pushes us to the very hard end of the continuum. It is also being presented as an all or nothing deal so that neither Parliament or the population has any say on the outcome because the alternative is genuine cliff-edge chaos. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super." Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional | |||
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" Yes but we all want something different what is right for you may not be right for me so do we just keep arguing or let the government got on with it. There will be no best deal if we put our cards on the table to start with ask for everything at the start and barter your way to a deal at the end. I do see your point. It is being couched in very hostile terms which do not make for a good negotiating environment. This pushes us to the very hard end of the continuum. It is also being presented as an all or nothing deal so that neither Parliament or the population has any say on the outcome because the alternative is genuine cliff-edge chaos." How do you know that when negotiations have not even started, do you know what kind of deal the EU want? | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional" Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt" We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt" nobody is forced to vote in any way. The public wanted to leave. And I'm sure their priorities differ to such an extent that not everybody can possibly be pleased | |||
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"Do we have to keep voting until the vote to remain campaign get enough votes? Move on we have voted to leave.....and oh BLAIR IS A CUNT" Actually we originally voted to remain in the first referendum but the leavers never accepted the democratic voice of the people then and winched, lied and moaned for 40 years till they got the result they wanted. Now they've got the result they wanted they seem to think that all discussion on the subject must stop. Well wake up BREXUTers it's not going to stop and instead of trying to stop the discussion why don't we start telling use all exactly how making it harder to trade with are richest, closest and biggest trading partners is going to make us all richer. You can't fool all of the people all of the time and if a week is a long time in politics, two years is over 100 times longer. People change their minds and, when the reality of what BREXIT actually is and its real consequences start to take effect we'll see what the clear view of the British people is then. | |||
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"Do we have to keep voting until the vote to remain campaign get enough votes? Move on we have voted to leave.....and oh BLAIR IS A CUNT Actually we originally voted to remain in the first referendum but the leavers never accepted the democratic voice of the people then and winched, lied and moaned for 40 years till they got the result they wanted. Now they've got the result they wanted they seem to think that all discussion on the subject must stop. Well wake up BREXUTers it's not going to stop and instead of trying to stop the discussion why don't we start telling use all exactly how making it harder to trade with are richest, closest and biggest trading partners is going to make us all richer. You can't fool all of the people all of the time and if a week is a long time in politics, two years is over 100 times longer. People change their minds and, when the reality of what BREXIT actually is and its real consequences start to take effect we'll see what the clear view of the British people is then." you might consider the 'Common Market' to be the EU but I would suggest that the majority of the country doesn't | |||
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"Do we have to keep voting until the vote to remain campaign get enough votes? Move on we have voted to leave.....and oh BLAIR IS A CUNT Actually we originally voted to remain in the first referendum but the leavers never accepted the democratic voice of the people then and winched, lied and moaned for 40 years till they got the result they wanted. Now they've got the result they wanted they seem to think that all discussion on the subject must stop. Well wake up BREXUTers it's not going to stop and instead of trying to stop the discussion why don't we start telling use all exactly how making it harder to trade with are richest, closest and biggest trading partners is going to make us all richer. You can't fool all of the people all of the time and if a week is a long time in politics, two years is over 100 times longer. People change their minds and, when the reality of what BREXIT actually is and its real consequences start to take effect we'll see what the clear view of the British people is then." OK, i'll concede you can have another referendum on this issue in another 40 years time then. | |||
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" How do you know that when negotiations have not even started, do you know what kind of deal the EU want? " It's our government's stated position. It will present a result to Parliament that they either accept in its entirety or reject completely. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know." Yes, we were told that was a possible route. It wasn't what was on the ballot paper, but it was one of the options various politicians stated. It goes against what the official manifesto that the current government was elected on... but hey... let's pretend you are right... in that case, where is the government's plan for us not being a part of the customs union? I mean they have had how many months now? 9? Surely they have drawn up some plans for the enlargement of our customs processing facilities at our ports? What sort of costs and delays could I expect on importing items? Oh, they will be checked at source? Right, so have we enlarged our customs processing abilities in the EU then? We've only got 2 years to get this done. -Matt | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. And as Michael Heaver points out in this interview people also have every right to think Tony Blair now represents a fringe opinion in British politics and that Blair is now an irrelevance. A recent poll showed 64% of people now both Leavers and Remainers want to get on with Brexit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3oWLUIJG8&t=6s That is completely misunderstanding the statistic isn't it? Getting on with Brexit is not the same as getting on with leaving the single market or ending joint research is it? It is not backing any particular Brexit strategy is it?" I've been saying since June that the government should just get on with BREXIT and stop pissing around with pointless law cases and trying to find ways of achieving BREXIT by bypassing the correct legal and constitutional framework. I'm one of the 64% that wants the government to get on with it. Does that mean I'm in favour of BREXIT now? Absolutely and definitely not. What I want is to know what BREXIT actually is and then I'll decided how strongly I am actually opposed to the type of BREXIT that's proposed. It's even possible that, with the right sort of BREXIT I might not really even be opposed to it too much at all. However, so far that doesn't seem likely. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know. Yes, we were told that was a possible route. It wasn't what was on the ballot paper, but it was one of the options various politicians stated. It goes against what the official manifesto that the current government was elected on... but hey... let's pretend you are right... in that case, where is the government's plan for us not being a part of the customs union? I mean they have had how many months now? 9? Surely they have drawn up some plans for the enlargement of our customs processing facilities at our ports? What sort of costs and delays could I expect on importing items? Oh, they will be checked at source? Right, so have we enlarged our customs processing abilities in the EU then? We've only got 2 years to get this done. -Matt" Lets not pretend at all lets just face facts that you and others just cant accept the result of the referendum. How many options did you want on the referendum ballot paper? Don't you think its bad enough as it is without splitting the country into 4 or 8 or 20 depending on how many options you put on the ballot paper.  | |||
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"Best of 3, best of 5 anyone? " Well so far we've had two. The first remain won by 64%, the second leave won by 52%. So to me, that puts remain ahead But I'm not actually in favour of a third referendum and wasn't in favour of the first or second either. If BREXIT goes as badly as I think it will the view of the British people will be made clear with or without a referendum; if it goes well there will be no need for one. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. I don't assume that. You do. And yes, it is possible they voted for all three. Everyone that voted to leave voted for all 3. With exactly the same priority. Of course. No, the reality is that you don't know. Why can't you just accept that? There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". There is something wrong with then trying to pretend you do and make an informed decision based on that. -Matt You were assuming, you said "for some it was about immigration, for some it was about the economy, and for some it was about Sovereignty". You are compartmentalising those 3 issues into separate issues and assuming people voted must have voted for one issue or the other. I do know people voted for all 3 issues combined because many of my friends voted Leave and that's what they've told me, i also voted Leave for all 3 issues combined. " But many is not all. I know many who voted leave for non of those reasons. In fact most of the people I know who voted leave voted leave because they wanted to Cameron and Osborne a good kicking and either didn't really care if we left the EU or not, or didn't actually think leave would win. With only a 52% majority it only takes 2 out of every 100 who voted leave to not have voted for the reasons you claim they did for your argument to be invalid. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. I don't assume that. You do. And yes, it is possible they voted for all three. Everyone that voted to leave voted for all 3. With exactly the same priority. Of course. No, the reality is that you don't know. Why can't you just accept that? There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". There is something wrong with then trying to pretend you do and make an informed decision based on that. -Matt If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with." And that's why referendum are such a bad idea. They seldom settle an issue and normally result in far more questions and division post referendum than there was before. | |||
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"And Blair is absolutely right to say we have every right to change our mind. so why don't you In my personal case, I've yet to see any actual credible information to base any belief that leaving would be good for us. Until I do, there is nothing to make me change my mind. -Matt fair enough. But why do people think that leavers would change their minds? People now just want to get on with it The reasoning is that there was no definitive plan that the leavers were voting on. For some it was about 'immigration', for some it was about 'economy', for some it was about 'sovereignty'. The reality is that the plan that is evolving from this and the priorities being laid out (if you call it that, still very vague) may not meet up to an individual's priorities. Why do you assume people had to vote for one particular issue out of those 3 you highlighted? It's possible that people voted Leave for all 3 reasons combined. I don't assume that. You do. And yes, it is possible they voted for all three. Everyone that voted to leave voted for all 3. With exactly the same priority. Of course. No, the reality is that you don't know. Why can't you just accept that? There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know". There is something wrong with then trying to pretend you do and make an informed decision based on that. -Matt You were assuming, you said "for some it was about immigration, for some it was about the economy, and for some it was about Sovereignty". You are compartmentalising those 3 issues into separate issues and assuming people voted must have voted for one issue or the other. I do know people voted for all 3 issues combined because many of my friends voted Leave and that's what they've told me, i also voted Leave for all 3 issues combined. But many is not all. I know many who voted leave for non of those reasons. In fact most of the people I know who voted leave voted leave because they wanted to Cameron and Osborne a good kicking and either didn't really care if we left the EU or not, or didn't actually think leave would win. With only a 52% majority it only takes 2 out of every 100 who voted leave to not have voted for the reasons you claim they did for your argument to be invalid. " But they did vote leave does,nt matter to me why anyone voted the way they did we had a vote and go a result the rest is up to the government. | |||
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" You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal. thats because a Norway type deal would be worse than the one we've already got. We are a far bigger country with a far more diverse economy, some people just don't get it I do understand your position. There is only one option for Brexit. Your option. Nothing else is possible. No one should challenge it. Is that correct? Are you not the same? One option Remain we had a referendum we voted leave right or wrong I don't think another referendum will solve anything. What would it say on the ballot sheet how many options would there be? We were asked a straight question on 23rd June 2016 Remain in the EU or Leave the EU its up to the government what happens now that is what they are there for." Well actually it's still up to parliament to decide what happens next. That is what it's there for. | |||
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" You are living in a delusional fantasy land. The Prime Minister Teresa May has already categorically ruled out a Norway type deal. thats because a Norway type deal would be worse than the one we've already got. We are a far bigger country with a far more diverse economy, some people just don't get it I do understand your position. There is only one option for Brexit. Your option. Nothing else is possible. No one should challenge it. Is that correct? Are you not the same? One option Remain we had a referendum we voted leave right or wrong I don't think another referendum will solve anything. What would it say on the ballot sheet how many options would there be? We were asked a straight question on 23rd June 2016 Remain in the EU or Leave the EU its up to the government what happens now that is what they are there for. Well actually it's still up to parliament to decide what happens next. That is what it's there for." Actually no I don't think it is I think its up to the EU once A 50 is invoked they can drag things out for 2 years make us leave with no deal, I could be wrong but I,m fairly sure I read that somewhere. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt" I disagree. I think the government does have the skill and ability to get us the best deal possible. Unfortunately I don't believe either it or the official opposition currently have the will or the courage to make the case for the best deal possible and probably won't. | |||
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"If we had another referendum what would it say on the ballot sheet? How many different options would we have? We could go on having referendums for ever and still not get a result that EVERYONE would agree with. Right. This highlights the exact problem. Your view is "It doesn't matter what people think, or whether everyone agrees, we just go for some undefined option and hope for the best". If I voted to leave, I'd be fucking furious with that as a strategy. I'd want more. I'd want my government to be competent at this. I'd want my government to consider the "will of the people" in slightly more nuanced terms. It's like those that just yell "We're leaving, get over it!" on every thread. Yes, we are leaving. We know that. But I'd quite like the thinking to have gone a bit further than that now. Back to my analogy: "We are going on holiday!" "Where?" "Doesn't matter, we have decided to go on holiday, shut up and accept it" "But what if I don't like where we are going?" "Shut up and accept it, it's the will of the people" "But I want to go to Spain, not Brasil" "We are going somewhere good, just accept it" "But I know Spanish, that would be better for me, I don't understand Portugese" "Shut up, and accept it... are you being un-democratic?" "No, but going to Spain would be a better holiday for me" "The people have spoken. They said they wanted to go on holiday. We are going to Brasil. End of." -Matt You have no idea what my view is you and others just will not accept the result of the referendum. I did not say anywhere on any forum that I agree with the way the government are doing things, but I do know they cant please everyone and no one knows yet what the out come will be in two years time. Exactly! No-one knows. The reason no-one knows is that there is no clear mandate on exactly what should happen. What the priorities are etc. Does that not piss you off? You sound like you are happy to just say "Oh well, no-one knows... I'm sure it will be fine in 2 years time". -Matt There are over 60 million people living in the UK I have no doubt they would all like the government to have a mandate that suits them but as that is not possible we as a country must put our trust in the government to get the best deal it can. I think that is where our opinions differ then. I really don't trust the government to get us the best deal. Or to be more precise, I don't trust that the government have the skills and ability to get us the best deal it can. -Matt I disagree. I think the government does have the skill and ability to get us the best deal possible. Unfortunately I don't believe either it or the official opposition currently have the will or the courage to make the case for the best deal possible and probably won't." Oh ye of little faith. | |||
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" None of us will know what a shambles it is for 2 years a lot can happen in 2 years. 3 EU countries have Elections this alone Greece will have to do something about their debt Italy are also having problems. It could be a whole different EU in 2 years time, an EU you may well be glad to leave. We are leaving though. The question is about what the terms are and the consequences of the current all or nothing approach. Fighting Brexit doesn't necessarily mean preventing it. Is it not acceptable to oppose the current all or nothing strategy and still want the best for the UK?" Or a better question:- Is it possible to support the current all or nothing strategy and seriously believe you want the best for the UK? And if any can truthfully answer yes then please explain how. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know." And we were told by Nigel Farage and Bojo that it was perfectly possible to leave the EU and remain in the single Market. | |||
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"Judging from the responses on here and the way even bojo was wheeled out, it looks like Blair has got a few worried. He is a fantastic orator. " So was a certain Mr Hitler..... And as for an earlier poster commenting on Iraq...NOT being an illegal war. I assume this was on the basis that parliament approved....but that approval was based on Tony's dodgy ("sexed up") dossier. This is then compared to a Thatcher taking us to war......it could be me...but wasn't that because a sovereign territory of the UK was actually invaded...... Lots of people on here calling Bliar a "cunt".....but now I hear Darth Mandleson (the power behind Tony's throne) is now urging the Lords....to stand strong against the article 50 bill. Now that really is a man  who should crawl back int his slime. | |||
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"Judging from the responses on here and the way even bojo was wheeled out, it looks like Blair has got a few worried. He is a fantastic orator. So was a certain Mr Hitler..... And as for an earlier poster commenting on Iraq...NOT being an illegal war. I assume this was on the basis that parliament approved....but that approval was based on Tony's dodgy ("sexed up") dossier. This is then compared to a Thatcher taking us to war......it could be me...but wasn't that because a sovereign territory of the UK was actually invaded...... Lots of people on here calling Bliar a "cunt".....but now I hear Darth Mandleson (the power behind Tony's throne) is now urging the Lords....to stand strong against the article 50 bill. Now that really is a man who should crawl back int his slime." | |||
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"Do we have to keep voting until the vote to remain campaign get enough votes? Move on we have voted to leave.....and oh BLAIR IS A CUNT Actually we originally voted to remain in the first referendum but the leavers never accepted the democratic voice of the people then and winched, lied and moaned for 40 years till they got the result they wanted. Now they've got the result they wanted they seem to think that all discussion on the subject must stop. Well wake up BREXUTers it's not going to stop and instead of trying to stop the discussion why don't we start telling use all exactly how making it harder to trade with are richest, closest and biggest trading partners is going to make us all richer. You can't fool all of the people all of the time and if a week is a long time in politics, two years is over 100 times longer. People change their minds and, when the reality of what BREXIT actually is and its real consequences start to take effect we'll see what the clear view of the British people is then. you might consider the 'Common Market' to be the EU but I would suggest that the majority of the country doesn't" The Common Market is now the customs union and EFTA. We never had a referendum on whether we should be in or out of the Common Market, the referendum in 1975 was on whether we should leave or remain in the European Economic Community (EEC) which is now known as the European Union (EU). | |||
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"bet the labour party are really glad about his speech just before the stoke by election, just how far out of touch can someone be ?" UKIP will seize stoke central and rightly so Labour have killed this city | |||
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"On a day when Harvard scientists are starting to bring back the Mammoth, Blair is to make a speech on Brexit. Leaked lines include "people to rise up against Brexit". Why this man isn't in a prison Cell is still beyond me. Blair; relevant or a plain irrelevance?" I'm hoping he's a moving target... | |||
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"Judging from the responses on here and the way even bojo was wheeled out, it looks like Blair has got a few worried. He is a fantastic orator. So was a certain Mr Hitler..... And as for an earlier poster commenting on Iraq...NOT being an illegal war. I assume this was on the basis that parliament approved....but that approval was based on Tony's dodgy ("sexed up") dossier. This is then compared to a Thatcher taking us to war......it could be me...but wasn't that because a sovereign territory of the UK was actually invaded...... Lots of people on here calling Bliar a "cunt".....but now I hear Darth Mandleson (the power behind Tony's throne) is now urging the Lords....to stand strong against the article 50 bill. Now that really is a man who should crawl back int his slime."The trouble is with Mandelson is that it probably isn't even his own slime...he probably had a 'private arrangement' to borrow it... Vile, vile man...only marginally less vomit-inducing than Blair the Fuckwit. | |||
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" No you couldn't. The vote to remain was a vote for the status quo. You could argue that some were voting for reform, that is fine.. but if *nothing* happens then we have the status quo. The vote for 'leave' by definition is a vote for change. Hell, that is why some voted for it no doubt. But there was no definition on exactly what was being voted. -Matt but now we have the choice of which direction to go in. Being tied to the EU that wasn't possible. You might be happy with the status quo but the majority who voted aren't. And anyway, how long do you think that the status quo would have lasted? Do you not comprehend what is happening to the EU and in the Eurozone? Before our exit negotiations are even complete it will be a completely different place to the one in which you voted to remain" Same as the EU being a completely different place to the one you voted to leave | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know. And we were told by Nigel Farage and Bojo that it was perfectly possible to leave the EU and remain in the single Market." It is "possible". If they let us, which they won't. | |||
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"And as for an earlier poster commenting on Iraq...NOT being an illegal war. I assume this was on the basis that parliament approved....but that approval was based on Tony's dodgy ("sexed up") dossier. This is then compared to a Thatcher taking us to war......it could be me...but wasn't that because a sovereign territory of the UK was actually invaded...." No that comment was based on the war having UN approval Saddam having filed to comply with UN Security Council resolution 1441, and although parliament got a vote the prerogative to take this country to war lays with the Crown not parliament, therefore the misleading of parliament has no legal standing as regards the war. However the political fallout has been huge and rightly so. As for the Falklands war, there was no UN approval so if there are arguments over legality in international law then it is the Falklands campaign that is on the much shakier ground. Just to be clear, I am not saying that the Falklands war was wrong, it was not. I was there and I would do it again tomorrow. Nor am I saying Gulf 2 was right, I think it was tactically and strategically wrong and destabilised the Middle East (in fact I think it like the majority of our foreign policy in the Arab world is wrong and that for the most part we make the wrong choices because of the oil and Jewish lobbies). | |||
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"bet the labour party are really glad about his speech just before the stoke by election, just how far out of touch can someone be ? UKIP will seize stoke central and rightly so Labour have killed this city "
Really hope you are right.
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know. And we were told by Nigel Farage and Bojo that it was perfectly possible to leave the EU and remain in the single Market." Boris actually said we should Leave the single market during the referendum campaign but never mind, the Prime Minister Teresa May has already said we are leaving the single market now. | |||
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"Boris actually said we should Leave the single market during the referendum campaign but never mind, the Prime Minister Teresa May has already said we are leaving the single market now. "Bullshit! Here is the clip of the man saying he was in favour of staying in the single market... https://youtu.be/ut74Tkz4Eho | |||
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"Boris actually said we should Leave the single market during the referendum campaign but never mind, the Prime Minister Teresa May has already said we are leaving the single market now.
Bullshit!
Here is the clip of the man saying he was in favour of staying in the single market...
https://youtu.be/ut74Tkz4Eho"Cenataur in "as reliable as his copy/paste bollocks from the Express" shocker. | |||
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" what is limited free movement and how much financial contribution? It is now all up to the government. If you or I don't like the deal we are free to vote against them at the next election. Until then they just need to get on with it Wow. That is exactly the point. You are content to allow the government to negotiate anything on an all or nothing basis. Once it is signed and implemented and we are stuck with it we can then decide if we liked it. Super. Yes. That is what parliament decided 6-1 in favour of because it is the only way to do it. To think there is another way is just delusional Right, and you think it fine that MPs are encouraged/forced to vote along party lines and not in the interests of their constituents? You don't see that as un-democratic at all? You think that is the only way? You don't think trying to actually find out what the public want would be a good idea? As in what their actual priorities are, not just 'stay' or 'leave'. -Matt We were told by several times a vote leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union so we did know. And we were told by Nigel Farage and Bojo that it was perfectly possible to leave the EU and remain in the single Market. Boris actually said we should Leave the single market during the referendum campaign but never mind, the Prime Minister Teresa May has already said we are leaving the single market now. "Yes, Bojo said that to. | |||
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp | |||
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"Boris actually said we should Leave the single market during the referendum campaign but never mind, the Prime Minister Teresa May has already said we are leaving the single market now.
Bullshit!
Here is the clip of the man saying he was in favour of staying in the single market...
https://youtu.be/ut74Tkz4Eho"What you failed to inform everyone is that clip of Boris was from 2013, so only just the 3 years out of date before the referendum in 2016 then. When Micheal Gove appeared on the Andrew Marr show on the BBC in the summer of 2016 during the height of the referendum campaign, Andrew Marr asked him, "Should we Leave the single market?" Michael Gove replied, "Yes we should Leave the single market". Then later live on the news a reporter asked Boris, "Michael Gove said we should Leave the single market, is he right?" Boris replied, "Yes Michael is right". | |||
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" What you failed to inform everyone is that clip of Boris was from 2013, so only just the 3 years out of date before the referendum in 2016 then. When Micheal Gove appeared on the Andrew Marr show on the BBC in the summer of 2016 during the height of the referendum campaign, Andrew Marr asked him, "Should we Leave the single market?" Michael Gove replied, "Yes we should Leave the single market". Then later live on the news a reporter asked Boris, "Michael Gove said we should Leave the single market, is he right?" Boris replied, "Yes Michael is right". " Nigel said we should keep fighting though. Do we must
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp | |||
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"Boris actually said we should Leave the single market during the referendum campaign but never mind, the Prime Minister Teresa May has already said we are leaving the single market now.
Bullshit!
Here is the clip of the man saying he was in favour of staying in the single market...
https://youtu.be/ut74Tkz4Eho
What you failed to inform everyone is that clip of Boris was from 2013, so only just the 3 years out of date before the referendum in 2016 then. When Micheal Gove appeared on the Andrew Marr show on the BBC in the summer of 2016 during the height of the referendum campaign, Andrew Marr asked him, "Should we Leave the single market?"
Michael Gove replied, "Yes we should Leave the single market".
Then later live on the news a reporter asked Boris, "Michael Gove said we should Leave the single market, is he right?"
Boris replied, "Yes Michael is right". "So Boris said Gove was right but did NOT actually say we should leave the single market until that became Ms May's position. I understand that the nuances of language are lost on you when convenient, but they are never lost on me. Presenting a united front to attain a goal by refusing to contradict an ally is not the same as reversing your publicly stated position on a subject. It is a ploy used by politicians all the time, they even have a name for it! They call it 'collective responsibility', and Boris is very good at playing that game. | |||
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" What you failed to inform everyone is that clip of Boris was from 2013, so only just the 3 years out of date before the referendum in 2016 then. When Micheal Gove appeared on the Andrew Marr show on the BBC in the summer of 2016 during the height of the referendum campaign, Andrew Marr asked him, "Should we Leave the single market?" Michael Gove replied, "Yes we should Leave the single market". Then later live on the news a reporter asked Boris, "Michael Gove said we should Leave the single market, is he right?" Boris replied, "Yes Michael is right". Nigel said we should keep fighting though. Do we must
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp"Nigel Farage is not the Prime Minister, he is not even in the government. The Prime Minister Teresa May and the government have said we are leaving the single market, its been laid out in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the government white paper, so there it is, we are leaving the single market. By all means continue to whinge and moan about it on here all you like, but it is the now part of the governments Brexit strategy whether you like it or not. | |||
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"Hard brexit won't happen. Brexit won't happen. Long way to go. Plenty of time for brexit lies to unravel and Remain truths to hit and the economy to tank. Then just wait for the anger, you stupid fuckers. " Name calling helps no one, but you could be right about Brexit not happening if the up coming elections in France, Holland and Germany go badly for the EU and Greece get rid of the euro. | |||
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" Nigel Farage is not the Prime Minister, he is not even in the government. The Prime Minister Teresa May and the government have said we are leaving the single market, its been laid out in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the government white paper, so there it is, we are leaving the single market. By all means continue to whinge and moan about it on here all you like, but it is the now part of the governments Brexit strategy whether you like it or not. " Ah. Bless. Complete faith in a politician
It's a White paper. You do know what that is don't you?
I'll ask the question again though. If the final deal was for free movement and a financial contribution for access to the single market and research because the the best the government could get would it be OK? | |||
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" What you failed to inform everyone is that clip of Boris was from 2013, so only just the 3 years out of date before the referendum in 2016 then. When Micheal Gove appeared on the Andrew Marr show on the BBC in the summer of 2016 during the height of the referendum campaign, Andrew Marr asked him, "Should we Leave the single market?" Michael Gove replied, "Yes we should Leave the single market". Then later live on the news a reporter asked Boris, "Michael Gove said we should Leave the single market, is he right?" Boris replied, "Yes Michael is right". Nigel said we should keep fighting though. Do we must
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp
Nigel Farage is not the Prime Minister, he is not even in the government. The Prime Minister Teresa May and the government have said we are leaving the single market, its been laid out in her Brexit speech at Lancaster house and in the government white paper, so there it is, we are leaving the single market. By all means continue to whinge and moan about it on here all you like, but it is the now part of the governments Brexit strategy whether you like it or not. "Two years is a long time in politics and I really don't think that the BREXIT argument of "it's happening, just accept it" is going to survive that long, especially when the realities of what BREXIT actually means starts to become more and more apparent. I'll be honest with you, while I don't agree with a lot of what you say you do normally make a much point for BREXIT than many so keep making it. If you don't you will eventually loose. We're not going to stop pointing out the folly no matter how much you call use remoaners. | |||
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"Please don't forget... Theresa May and Boris Johnson voted in favor for the Iraq invasion. X " A bit irrelevant but correct. Unfortunately so did most of Parliament and, despite the large demos, most of the country backed it including myself. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. | |||
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"Here is a thing everyone on both sides of the brexit argument don't seem to understand... Regardless of what the UK decides about deals or anything else (staying or leaving the EU... Once article 50 is triggered we are out of the EU in 2 years unless the EU decide to extend our period or let us stay if we change our mind. Farage, UKIP and the Tory brexiteers understand this that is why they take every opportunity to further poison relationships between the EU and UK. It really is about time people woke up to what is really going on! " Oh, I'm very aware. We would never be able to re-enter on the highly preferable terms that we have anyway. We're out and probably not on friendly or preferential trading terms. Trade will just about be functioning based on our current rhetoric. However, there are two years to change the tone of the conversation but we are likely to be in a far weaker economic position by then. Possibly in the teeth of a global equity collapse and recession in the real economy with everybody and governments more highly indebted than we've ever been... | |||
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"Hard brexit won't happen. Brexit won't happen. Long way to go. Plenty of time for brexit lies to unravel and Remain truths to hit and the economy to tank. Then just wait for the anger, you stupid fuckers. Name calling helps no one, but you could be right about Brexit not happening if the up coming elections in France, Holland and Germany go badly for the EU and Greece get rid of the euro. " There may not be an EU to leave.....? 28 countries will all be leaving by default. The hundreds of billions per year wasted on beurocrats could perhaps be given to Greece as forcing them to join the euro completely fucked them over. | |||
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"Here is a thing everyone on both sides of the brexit argument don't seem to understand... Regardless of what the UK decides about deals or anything else (staying or leaving the EU... Once article 50 is triggered we are out of the EU in 2 years unless the EU decide to extend our period or let us stay if we change our mind. Farage, UKIP and the Tory brexiteers understand this that is why they take every opportunity to further poison relationships between the EU and UK. It really is about time people woke up to what is really going on! Oh, I'm very aware. We would never be able to re-enter on the highly preferable terms that we have anyway. We're out and probably not on friendly or preferential trading terms. Trade will just about be functioning based on our current rhetoric. However, there are two years to change the tone of the conversation but we are likely to be in a far weaker economic position by then. Possibly in the teeth of a global equity collapse and recession in the real economy with everybody and governments more highly indebted than we've ever been..." suspect more friendly than 1939 - 45 | |||
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" We're out and probably not on friendly or preferential trading terms. Trade will just about be functioning based on our current rhetoric. However, there are two years to change the tone of the conversation but we are likely to be in a far weaker economic position by then. Possibly in the teeth of a global equity collapse and recession in the real economy with everybody and governments more highly indebted than we've ever been... suspect more friendly than 1939 - 45 "Before the formation of the EU you mean? | |||
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"I am sure some in the EU still hold a grudge and plot "And you think that is something to wink about? How many children do you have to sacrifice to the cause? Or maybe you will be leading them to the volunteering station and signing up for the slaughter first? Personally having had years of training and knowing what will be required of those called to serve I am glad I am 60 and will only have to face the final big flash. Will be wearing my Ray Ban Aviators when it comes!  | |||
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"I am sure some in the EU still hold a grudge and plot
And you think that is something to wink about?
How many children do you have to sacrifice to the cause? Or maybe you will be leading them to the volunteering station and signing up for the slaughter first?
Personally having had years of training and knowing what will be required of those called to serve I am glad I am 60 and will only have to face the final big flash.
Will be wearing my Ray Ban Aviators when it comes! "you whinge about the slaughter of children as you throw another steak on the barbie
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I wont be leading anyone to any station, I will happily sit at home, enjoying my land & the "good life" inviting some deer to come & visit so they can enjoy the taste of a .308
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sell your ray bans and get a good pair of sun glasses such as "Oakley Ducati Juliet Carbon w/Black" oh, wait you cant, I bought them all | |||
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" We're out and probably not on friendly or preferential trading terms. Trade will just about be functioning based on our current rhetoric. However, there are two years to change the tone of the conversation but we are likely to be in a far weaker economic position by then. Possibly in the teeth of a global equity collapse and recession in the real economy with everybody and governments more highly indebted than we've ever been... suspect more friendly than 1939 - 45
Before the formation of the EU you mean?"Before the formation of NATO in 1949. | |||
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" We're out and probably not on friendly or preferential trading terms. Trade will just about be functioning based on our current rhetoric. However, there are two years to change the tone of the conversation but we are likely to be in a far weaker economic position by then. Possibly in the teeth of a global equity collapse and recession in the real economy with everybody and governments more highly indebted than we've ever been... suspect more friendly than 1939 - 45
Before the formation of the EU you mean?
Before the formation of NATO in 1949. "The supranational body demanding that it's members spend 2% of its GDP on stuff that kills people? The UK makes a 0.6% net contribution to the EU. Enjoy. | |||
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"Hard brexit won't happen. Brexit won't happen. Long way to go. Plenty of time for brexit lies to unravel and Remain truths to hit and the economy to tank. Then just wait for the anger, you stupid fuckers. Name calling helps no one, but you could be right about Brexit not happening if the up coming elections in France, Holland and Germany go badly for the EU and Greece get rid of the euro. There may not be an EU to leave.....? 28 countries will all be leaving by default. The hundreds of billions per year wasted on beurocrats could perhaps be given to Greece as forcing them to join the euro completely fucked them over." Their own disastrous financial policies fucked them over in fairness. They were a mess of disorganisation, I dont know how they survived as long as they did. They could have alleviated it if they had their own currency though. But in the flip side access to the single market and the benefits of the EU coukd have helped them from spiralling even further. | |||
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" We're out and probably not on friendly or preferential trading terms. Trade will just about be functioning based on our current rhetoric. However, there are two years to change the tone of the conversation but we are likely to be in a far weaker economic position by then. Possibly in the teeth of a global equity collapse and recession in the real economy with everybody and governments more highly indebted than we've ever been... suspect more friendly than 1939 - 45
Before the formation of the EU you mean?
Before the formation of NATO in 1949.
The supranational body demanding that it's members spend 2% of its GDP on stuff that kills people?
The UK makes a 0.6% net contribution to the EU.
Enjoy."So you're saying that we should spend nothing on defence? And that you don't agree with the EU pursuing the formation of an EU 'defence force'? And that it is the EU that has ensured peace throughout Europe since 1945? When was the EU formed btw? | |||
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