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"How long will he last?" 8 years | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years"   | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest."  | |||
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"How long will he last?" Easy... to figure it out , just consider his track record since he announced he was a candidate ? What did the "specialists" and pundits say back then ?
Everybody seems to constantly underestimate this guy, forgetting he is not you typical politician.... if he was, he would not be the President !
Now, I don't like him as a person, but I do enjoy the way he deals with e media !
About time someone put them in their place | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years" You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. " He hardly ever says anything of real substance. Just sort of makes vague and sweeping promises.... Occasionally he does pull the odd gem out of the bag, like the whole "wall" idea. Of course, they do nothing to make him seem like less of a fucktard. | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years" I'd say 15. | |||
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 ..
he looks out of his depth even at this very short time..
most of what's happened thus far is down to him, when other things eg. events and crisis occur's that will be another level.. | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. He hardly ever says anything of real substance. Just sort of makes vague and sweeping promises.... Occasionally he does pull the odd gem out of the bag, like the whole "wall" idea. Of course, they do nothing to make him seem like less of a fucktard. " Haven't seen it yet ! But he does it on purpose sometimes ! Its a business tactic ..... you create disruption ... then watch the reactions and sort it later ! Very elementary its a form of control by disruption A military tactic that's been around and used thousands of years....( The Art of War- Sun Tzu) but then most people don't read these days , and find it abnormal when a political candidate actually keeps his promises when elected
So what do I know .....
A sign of this disruption is when some people find it odd that country actually has fences and walls as borders where a river or ocean is not present to act as a separation marker ! 
And by the way... 2/3 of the "wall" (mostly a fence) is already there and was built by his predecessors !
So talk about fucktards.....
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. He hardly ever says anything of real substance. Just sort of makes vague and sweeping promises.... Occasionally he does pull the odd gem out of the bag, like the whole "wall" idea. Of course, they do nothing to make him seem like less of a fucktard. Haven't seen it yet ! But he does it on purpose sometimes ! Its a business tactic ..... you create disruption ... then watch the reactions and sort it later ! Very elementary its a form of control by disruption A military tactic that's been around and used thousands of years....( The Art of War- Sun Tzu) but then most people don't read these days , and find it abnormal when a political candidate actually keeps his promises when elected
So what do I know .....
A sign of this disruption is when some people find it odd that country actually has fences and walls as borders where a river or ocean is not present to act as a separation marker !
And by the way... 2/3 of the "wall" (mostly a fence) is already there and was built by his predecessors !
So talk about fucktards.....
"So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest." i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? anyway... the presser.... which word should i use Trainwreck? Clusterfuck? Shitshower? (my favourite at the mo!) i am not sure what he is trying to achieve (well i know what he is doing.. he needs an enemy and because he ran out of people to belittle... so he is doing that with the media) that was incredible... he would have got flynn to do what he did if he hadn't.... real leaks but fake news? I am glad the bloke from nbc fact-checked him on the spot.... he was not ready for that...... the presser was to try and divert people off the russia connection talk... i don't think that achieved that aim at all... | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. " I did watch it. You say he says nothing of substance but it is all truth. And _iewers ratings justify that. Also no politician has delivered on promises quicker than Trump. Not all of them i agree with, but to say he says nothing of substance is wrong. Wait until he cuts taxes. | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. I did watch it. You say he says nothing of substance but it is all truth. And _iewers ratings justify that. Also no politician has delivered on promises quicker than Trump. Not all of them i agree with, but to say he says nothing of substance is wrong. Wait until he cuts taxes." The sad thing I s the blame game. If he fails he'll blame others not himself. | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. I did watch it. You say he says nothing of substance but it is all truth. And _iewers ratings justify that. Also no politician has delivered on promises quicker than Trump. Not all of them i agree with, but to say he says nothing of substance is wrong. Wait until he cuts taxes." "All Truth".... | |||
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"How long will he last? 8 years You wouldn't say that if you had actually watched that presser. Never seen anything like it in my entire life. Nothing at all of any kind of substance about what he is doing or will and just line after line about ratings and what other people are doing wrong. There was a complete disconnect from his role as President and what he was saying. He has often been described as unhinged, but he demonstrated it alarmingly today in that presser. I did watch it. You say he says nothing of substance but it is all truth. And _iewers ratings justify that. Also no politician has delivered on promises quicker than Trump. Not all of them i agree with, but to say he says nothing of substance is wrong. Wait until he cuts taxes. "All Truth".... "Silent 't' there | |||
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 and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest. i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? " The national debt is 20 trillion (9 of which came from 8 years of obama) Race relations are at an all time low Job growth and unemployment are shocking The rise of Isis and the destabilisation of the middle east I could go on, but if Obama was half as good as people tbought he was, he would be twice as good as he actually was. | |||
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""So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. " Are you for real ! I am abroad and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders "Loads of them, you must have driven across Europe? You might have checkpoints along roads, but there isn't a bloody great wall is there? | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest. i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? The national debt is 20 trillion (9 of which came from 8 years of obama) Race relations are at an all time low Job growth and unemployment are shocking The rise of Isis and the destabilisation of the middle east I could go on, but if Obama was half as good as people tbought he was, he would be twice as good as he actually was. "  | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest. i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? The national debt is 20 trillion (9 of which came from 8 years of obama) Race relations are at an all time low Job growth and unemployment are shocking The rise of Isis and the destabilisation of the middle east I could go on, but if Obama was half as good as people tbought he was, he would be twice as good as he actually was. " Quite disappointed in you... All American presidents are bad. | |||
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""So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. " Are you for real ! I am abroad and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders
Loads of them, you must have driven across Europe? You might have checkpoints along roads, but there isn't a bloody great wall is there?"Again,... you just did yourself in mate 
I have driven across Europe several times (my ex was Swedish)and all the borders are there , and they even have spot checks! The difference is that in most of them , and most times you just Drive through !
So stop creating "alternative" facts and inform your self better!  | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest. i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? The national debt is 20 trillion (9 of which came from 8 years of obama) Race relations are at an all time low Job growth and unemployment are shocking The rise of Isis and the destabilisation of the middle east I could go on, but if Obama was half as good as people tbought he was, he would be twice as good as he actually was. " cool... talking points.... 1) yes the total debt is up.... that was because of the republicans who were in the whitehouse..... bush, bush 2, reagan ect... the fact is that since world war 2... every republican president has increased the defecit and every democratic president has lowered the defecit (yes... even obama)... and clinton actually ran a surplus and trump is planning to improve the debt by giving the top 1 % a tax cut.... which will add 3 trillion to the debt!!!!! 2) jobs growth and unemployment.... when obama took over from bush 2.... they were losing 650,000 jobs a month and the unemployment rate was 7.9% when obama left office the last employment figures were the jobs market had gained 275,000 jobs... and the unemployment rate is 4.7%....... 
and before you say "blip"..... the unemploymnet rate has dropped 36 months in a row......
I know.... shocking!!!!!
race relations...... and isis.... yey....
reading up on all the breitbart talking points.... good for you!!!!
got anything else i can debunk? | |||
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""So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. " Are you for real ! I am abroad and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders
Loads of them, you must have driven across Europe? You might have checkpoints along roads, but there isn't a bloody great wall is there?
Again,... you just did yourself in mate
I have driven across Europe several times (my ex was Swedish)and all the borders are there , and they even have spot checks! The difference is that in most of them , and most times you just Drive through !
So stop creating "alternative" facts and inform your self better! "So you are seriously trying to tell me that all mainland European countries have walls along the entirety of their borders? | |||
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""So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. " Are you for real ! I am abroad and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders
Loads of them, you must have driven across Europe? You might have checkpoints along roads, but there isn't a bloody great wall is there?
Again,... you just did yourself in mate
I have driven across Europe several times (my ex was Swedish)and all the borders are there , and they even have spot checks! The difference is that in most of them , and most times you just Drive through !
We were talking about a physical border? We were never not talking spot checks. Dutch and Belgium have a camera but no spot check either. Of course there are borders.
So stop creating "alternative" facts and inform your self better! " | |||
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""So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. " Are you for real ! I am abroad and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders
Loads of them, you must have driven across Europe? You might have checkpoints along roads, but there isn't a bloody great wall is there?
Again,... you just did yourself in mate
I have driven across Europe several times (my ex was Swedish)and all the borders are there , and they even have spot checks! The difference is that in most of them , and most times you just Drive through !
We were talking about a physical border? We were never not talking spot checks. Dutch and Belgium have a camera but no spot check either. Of course there are borders.
So stop creating "alternative" facts and inform your self better! "Tone seems to think there are actual walls along the length of European state borders..... | |||
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2- when Obama took office debt was close to 9 trillion ! When he left it was passing the 19 trillion
At the time bush was accused of accumulating more debt then all of the previous 43 US presidents before him , close to 5 trillion......but Obama mre the DOUBLED that
3- Debt is not the same as deficit ! during the Clinton years America still had accumulated debt ! But lets not forget that His "surplus" was mostly due to the dotcom bubble.... and Enron ... | |||
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2aiYTFyu7m4 | |||
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"But I wana see photos of these walls. I'd especially like to see the ones along the Swiss borders, a mean feat of engineering, I shouldn't wonder. " Seems pointless 
You don't get it DO YOU ? walls fences its irrelevant ! its about the existence of actual physical barriers between countries ! and it seems you have not been there ! I have
So stop banging your head against the wall....lol.... pun intended | |||
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"Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Fairly sure this will make good reading in the worlds Press up until his next moment of madness tomorrow." I haven't read the thread so apologies if it's already been said, but.... Trump has his back up against the wall. Things are unraveling for him at a time when he thought he'd be getting adulation for his feats of gradeur. As a private citizen and businessman he isn't used to the kind of scrutiny and oversight that politics entails. His supporters still support him, though. At least for now, anyway. It shouldn't slip anyone's notice that his administration and the republican party have put off talks of repealing the ACA until after the midterm elections. He's acting the same way he's always acted when backed into a corner - whining and ranting. It's not surprising. What I find funny, though, is that the same people who actively engaged in obstructionism against Obama are up there crying about the unfairness Trump has had to deal with. Apparently what's good for one party isn't good for the other. Right. | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest. i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? The national debt is 20 trillion (9 of which came from 8 years of obama) Race relations are at an all time low Job growth and unemployment are shocking The rise of Isis and the destabilisation of the middle east I could go on, but if Obama was half as good as people tbought he was, he would be twice as good as he actually was. cool... talking points.... 1) yes the total debt is up.... that was because of the republicans who were in the whitehouse..... bush, bush 2, reagan ect... the fact is that since world war 2... every republican president has increased the defecit and every democratic president has lowered the defecit (yes... even obama)... and clinton actually ran a surplus and trump is planning to improve the debt by giving the top 1 % a tax cut.... which will add 3 trillion to the debt!!!!! 2) jobs growth and unemployment.... when obama took over from bush 2.... they were losing 650,000 jobs a month and the unemployment rate was 7.9% when obama left office the last employment figures were the jobs market had gained 275,000 jobs... and the unemployment rate is 4.7%.......
and before you say "blip"..... the unemploymnet rate has dropped 36 months in a row......
I know.... shocking!!!!!
race relations...... and isis.... yey....
reading up on all the breitbart talking points.... good for you!!!!
got anything else i can debunk? "On point 2, unemployment is lower depending on what rating you are measuring against. The U3 which you quote only measures certain types of unemployment. This has only just returned to pre recession levels. Total unemployment, the U6 rating is closer to 9.5 percent. Which correlates with the labour participation decrease. And those 275000 jobs added to his total of nearly 11 million jobs. Only half the amount bill clinton created. Trumps talks with alibaba alone plan to create 1,000,000 jobs in 5 years. Ill believe it when i see it bit i wouldnt bet against it. | |||
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"But I wana see photos of these walls. I'd especially like to see the ones along the Swiss borders, a mean feat of engineering, I shouldn't wonder. Seems pointless
You don't get it DO YOU ? walls fences its irrelevant ! its about the existence of actual physical barriers between countries ! and it seems you have not been there ! I have
So stop banging your head against the wall....lol.... pun intended "What's physical about a border? Not barrier. | |||
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"But I wana see photos of these walls. I'd especially like to see the ones along the Swiss borders, a mean feat of engineering, I shouldn't wonder. Seems pointless
You don't get it DO YOU ? walls fences its irrelevant ! its about the existence of actual physical barriers between countries ! and it seems you have not been there ! I have
So stop banging your head against the wall....lol.... pun intended "Physical barriers like walls and fences? Maybe you don't understand what a physical barrier is. I've walked over European borders too.... | |||
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"i've walked across countless borders .... i'd say 90% of the borders i've crossed there hasn't been a wall or a gate or anything .... most of the time i've never seen anyone around let alone show a passport ..... especially europe" Wot no fence to climb? | |||
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"i've walked across countless borders .... i'd say 90% of the borders i've crossed there hasn't been a wall or a gate or anything .... most of the time i've never seen anyone around let alone show a passport ..... especially europe Wot no fence to climb? "not even a line drawn on the ground | |||
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"i've walked across countless borders .... i'd say 90% of the borders i've crossed there hasn't been a wall or a gate or anything .... most of the time i've never seen anyone around let alone show a passport ..... especially europe Wot no fence to climb?
not even a line drawn on the ground"#fakenews | |||
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"i've walked across countless borders .... i'd say 90% of the borders i've crossed there hasn't been a wall or a gate or anything .... most of the time i've never seen anyone around let alone show a passport ..... especially europe Wot no fence to climb?
not even a line drawn on the ground
#fakenews
"the ethiopia/eritrea border toward the end of the civil war was the most bizarre that i saw .... a 300 yard wide strip of broken glass .... the eritrean separatists were mostly barefoot apparently | |||
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"i've walked across countless borders .... i'd say 90% of the borders i've crossed there hasn't been a wall or a gate or anything .... most of the time i've never seen anyone around let alone show a passport ..... especially europe Wot no fence to climb?
not even a line drawn on the ground
#fakenews
the ethiopia/eritrea border toward the end of the civil war was the most bizarre that i saw .... a 300 yard wide strip of broken glass .... the eritrean separatists were mostly barefoot apparently" lol..... now that's a great example of a physical border !
Not only can you see it , you can feel it....ouch  | |||
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""So, a fence is now a wall? Lots of countries don't have either fences or walls right the way along their borders, I thought you'd been abroad? He barely makes promises of any substance, so how he can be keeping them is beyond me. " Are you for real ! I am abroad and have travelled or lived on 4 continents ...besides Europe ! so give one example of a country without physical borders
Loads of them, you must have driven across Europe? You might have checkpoints along roads, but there isn't a bloody great wall is there?
Again,... you just did yourself in mate
I have driven across Europe several times (my ex was Swedish)and all the borders are there , and they even have spot checks! The difference is that in most of them , and most times you just Drive through !
So stop creating "alternative" facts and inform your self better! "Drive from France into Belgium and all you see is a road sign that says 'Belgique', if it wasn't for the sign you'd never know. | |||
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" It was also interesting watching Evan Davis on Newsnight inter_iewing Sebastien Gawker, Trump's spokesman. I don't know if it was a planned strategy to attack the press or if they are now just going with it but it was also pretty uncomfortable to watch." just seen that as well... it was cringeworthy as trumps spokesperson didn't answer a single question... I think this is their m.o now with organisations they don't like... msnbc, cnn, bbc ect... because they get a harder time on there than they do on fox news where for example they get softballs lobbed up question wise... thats why trump will appear there more than most... thats why up until today it hadn't gone un noticed that all the questions at big news conferences had gone to very right leaning media outlets... | |||
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" It was also interesting watching Evan Davis on Newsnight inter_iewing Sebastien Gawker, Trump's spokesman. I don't know if it was a planned strategy to attack the press or if they are now just going with it but it was also pretty uncomfortable to watch." Well he is ex-Breitbart, Penn Jilette lookalike and newly appointed Trump staffer Sebastian Gorka.Absolutely unbelievable inter_iew, "You've just committed fake news!!!" He'll be a household name within a month. | |||
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""The leak was real the news was fake" is one for the ages. I mean that is frankly poetic. If that was said by a bond villain it would be repeated ad nauseam in every top 100 clip show."
There were more crazy quotes from this press conference than I can count.
I was compiling a list to stick on this thread but it got ridiculously long, and I gave up. | |||
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"Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Fairly sure this will make good reading in the worlds Press up until his next moment of madness tomorrow." Ok ! I have seen it now ! Nothing astonishing about it in my _iew ! Its a typical Donald on the offensive , actually talking Directly to the people , not pandering to the Washington establishment , and exposing the usual biased press pundits for their lack of ethics that result in either, manipulating , or reporting false news ! Did he ring his own bell? Yes he did! But don't all politicians ! As I mentioned on a previous post , I don't like the man as a person , but I understand why ,What, and specially how he is going about it ! Its an ancient, (Art of war by Sun Tzu) and time proven tactic of war ! Anybody who has read anything on tactics and strategy will get it ! But to get it you have to use reason, not rash judgement have an open mind ! Unfortunately the mentioned qualities are apparently no existent or very rare in the media....and some on here.... it seems
Now as the media are not used to not being in control, the recoil will be fierce... but that was the case when he started his campaign!.... and who prevailed ?
Polls in the US and elsewhere suggest a growing distrust in the media ! The likes of CNN (Clinton News Network) and Msnbc , CBS, NBC hare seeing their ratings drop , while the only decent news outlet , FOX news has been steadily rising And before any one raves on about Fox may I remind you the animosity between Trump and Megyn Kelly | |||
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Comedy gold
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The Trump team can try all it wants to cut out regular news channels and deliver their own propaganda directly but they are forgetting that making enemies of the Press never ends up well. Richard Nixon is testament to that approach.
I think that it will be very good investigative journalists who will ultimately bring down Trump and he is doing a great job of arming his enemies in the Press. He really is not so "smart." | |||
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"First the press conference and then the guy inter_iewed on Newsnight
The Trump team can try all it wants to cut out regular news channels and deliver their own propaganda directly but they are forgetting that making enemies of the Press never ends up well. Richard Nixon is testament to that approach.
I think that it will be very good investigative journalists who will ultimately bring down Trump and he is doing a great job of arming his enemies in the Press. He really is not so "smart.""In general terms, and it is clear from this thread on both sides, that the press are "objective" when we agree with it and "biased" when we don't. More and more people are guilty of living in a news bubble that reinforces our opinions and beliefs. I regularly see Fox and Russia Today being quoted as unbiased and telling the "truth". If it is not clear that these are at least as equally unreliable as any other news organisation then the discussion goes nowhere. The discussion is going nowhere because so few people will even engage with questioning the foundation of their beliefs because they will not question the "facts" that they are based on. Nobody will admit a mistake or even answer a question that questions their _iew. However, that is the example we are being given by the leader of what is still the most powerful country on earth. | |||
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"First the press conference and then the guy inter_iewed on Newsnight
The Trump team can try all it wants to cut out regular news channels and deliver their own propaganda directly but they are forgetting that making enemies of the Press never ends up well. Richard Nixon is testament to that approach.
I think that it will be very good investigative journalists who will ultimately bring down Trump and he is doing a great job of arming his enemies in the Press. He really is not so "smart."
In general terms, and it is clear from this thread on both sides, that the press are "objective" when we agree with it and "biased" when we don't.
More and more people are guilty of living in a news bubble that reinforces our opinions and beliefs. I regularly see Fox and Russia Today being quoted as unbiased and telling the "truth". If it is not clear that these are at least as equally unreliable as any other news organisation then the discussion goes nowhere.
The discussion is going nowhere because so few people will even engage with questioning the foundation of their beliefs because they will not question the "facts" that they are based on. Nobody will admit a mistake or even answer a question that questions their _iew. However, that is the example we are being given by the leader of what is still the most powerful country on earth."Comfirmation bias is the word .Its rampant and everyone is guilty.You can blame the echo chamber of the internet we create. | |||
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"Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Fairly sure this will make good reading in the worlds Press up until his next moment of madness tomorrow. Ok ! I have seen it now ! Nothing astonishing about it in my _iew ! Its a typical Donald on the offensive , actually talking Directly to the people , not pandering to the Washington establishment , and exposing the usual biased press pundits for their lack of ethics that result in either, manipulating , or reporting false news ! Did he ring his own bell? Yes he did! But don't all politicians ! As I mentioned on a previous post , I don't like the man as a person , but I understand why ,What, and specially how he is going about it ! Its an ancient, (Art of war by Sun Tzu) and time proven tactic of war ! Anybody who has read anything on tactics and strategy will get it ! But to get it you have to use reason, not rash judgement have an open mind ! Unfortunately the mentioned qualities are apparently no existent or very rare in the media....and some on here.... it seems
Now as the media are not used to not being in control, the recoil will be fierce... but that was the case when he started his campaign!.... and who prevailed ?
Polls in the US and elsewhere suggest a growing distrust in the media ! The likes of CNN (Clinton News Network) and Msnbc , CBS, NBC hare seeing their ratings drop , while the only decent news outlet , FOX news has been steadily rising And before any one raves on about Fox may I remind you the animosity between Trump and Megyn Kelly "Ok. Apart from their ratings aren't dropping. Their ratings are higher than ever. Trump is trying his hardest to discredit them and saying their ratings are falling. And you are repeating that bullshit. But it isn't true. CNN is up something like 37% for the first weeks of january compared to last year. Similar with other news outlets. They are all doing fantastically well. The reporter that fact checked him live in the press conference? Fantastic! More of that. The number of times Trump comes out with blatant lies needs to be highlighted every time. Same with his tweet about his cabinet taking longer to be approved than any previous president. A lie. A simple lie. Not even a difficult one to check as all the info is public record. Obama's wasn't approved until end of April. Clinton and Bush's, mid-March. The guy is just one lie after another. And you are believing it
-Matt | |||
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"The press conference was odd. I don't think that it could be described as anything else. I'm not sure I understand the purpose of it. The USA has got exactly what they voted for which is a man who is used to getting his own way running a privately owned company with very little scrutiny. This is not what happens as the President of the USA. It was also interesting watching Evan Davis on Newsnight inter_iewing Sebastien Gawker, Trump's spokesman. I don't know if it was a planned strategy to attack the press or if they are now just going with it but it was also pretty uncomfortable to watch." Tend to agree. The inter_iew on newsnight looks part of a strategy to shout down the media and essentially appears to be about diverting attention from the thus far totally appropriate scrutiny applied to Trump's fledgling administration.. It may be an effective tactic on a single issue but it won't last and it won't fool enough people in the medium and long term.. | |||
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"I think most people don't understand what is really going on here. You all need to read up on the OCEAN personality model and 'Behavioural Micro-targeting' and the deliver the right messages to the right individuals in meaningful ways online (and remember this includes excluding all those you don't want to see your message). this is how Trump got elected, anyone want to give me odds that he is now using the same trick to manipulate those he has had identified as vulnerable to an anti press while he is publicly directly attacking the press who are in turn reinforcing his message to the anti mass media and press constituency. Those citing Sun Tzu are right (up to a point), they just don't know that what they think is the battle is nothing but a diversion and the battle is being fought elsewhere with a totally new weapon. I think there is a good chance the war is already over and Trump has won." We live with a constant vaudeville of contradictory stories from trump.You have to look to Russia, to a man called Vladislav SurkovSurkov who turned Russian politics into a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theater. He sponsored all kinds of groups, from neo-Nazi skinheads to liberal human rights groups. He even backed parties that were opposed to President Putin. His aim is to undermine peoples' perceptions of the world, so they never know what is really happening. | |||
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"Trumpophobia knows no bounds "trumpophobia is strong in this thread...best leave them to it. | |||
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"Trumpophobia knows no bounds
trumpophobia is strong in this thread...best leave them to it. "..and you guys arent having a circle jerk over bashing blair in the other thread... | |||
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"Trumpophobia knows no bounds
trumpophobia is strong in this thread...best leave them to it. ..and you guys arent having a circle jerk over bashing blair in the other thread... "ye but he deserves it | |||
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"Trumpophobia knows no bounds
trumpophobia is strong in this thread...best leave them to it. ..and you guys arent having a circle jerk over bashing blair in the other thread... "That's a sick thought | |||
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" And before any one raves on about Fox may I remind you the animosity between Trump and Megyn Kelly "She turned into the most objective person they had in prime time so she bolted for NBC The tucker Carlson, bill'o, hannity line up they now have is a trump circle jerk... all lining up to take it from him! When shep smith even calls out trump yesterday and calls the man crazy after the presser yesterday you know that spectacle was shocking | |||
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""The leak was real the news was fake" is one for the ages. I mean that is frankly poetic. If that was said by a bond villain it would be repeated ad nauseam in every top 100 clip show.
There were more crazy quotes from this press conference than I can count.
I was compiling a list to stick on this thread but it got ridiculously long, and I gave up."He is the bastard offspring of Nicholas Fehn and Philomena Cunk. | |||
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"I think most people don't understand what is really going on here. You all need to read up on the OCEAN personality model and 'Behavioural Micro-targeting' and the deliver the right messages to the right individuals in meaningful ways online (and remember this includes excluding all those you don't want to see your message). this is how Trump got elected, anyone want to give me odds that he is now using the same trick to manipulate those he has had identified as vulnerable to an anti press while he is publicly directly attacking the press who are in turn reinforcing his message to the anti mass media and press constituency. Those citing Sun Tzu are right (up to a point), they just don't know that what they think is the battle is nothing but a diversion and the battle is being fought elsewhere with a totally new weapon. I think there is a good chance the war is already over and Trump has won." I am not surprised you got it | |||
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"Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Fairly sure this will make good reading in the worlds Press up until his next moment of madness tomorrow. Ok ! I have seen it now ! Nothing astonishing about it in my _iew ! Its a typical Donald on the offensive , actually talking Directly to the people , not pandering to the Washington establishment , and exposing the usual biased press pundits for their lack of ethics that result in either, manipulating , or reporting false news ! Did he ring his own bell? Yes he did! But don't all politicians ! As I mentioned on a previous post , I don't like the man as a person , but I understand why ,What, and specially how he is going about it ! Its an ancient, (Art of war by Sun Tzu) and time proven tactic of war ! Anybody who has read anything on tactics and strategy will get it ! But to get it you have to use reason, not rash judgement have an open mind ! Unfortunately the mentioned qualities are apparently no existent or very rare in the media....and some on here.... it seems
Now as the media are not used to not being in control, the recoil will be fierce... but that was the case when he started his campaign!.... and who prevailed ?
Polls in the US and elsewhere suggest a growing distrust in the media ! The likes of CNN (Clinton News Network) and Msnbc , CBS, NBC hare seeing their ratings drop , while the only decent news outlet , FOX news has been steadily rising And before any one raves on about Fox may I remind you the animosity between Trump and Megyn Kelly
Ok. Apart from their ratings aren't dropping. Their ratings are higher than ever. Trump is trying his hardest to discredit them and saying their ratings are falling. And you are repeating that bullshit. But it isn't true. CNN is up something like 37% for the first weeks of january compared to last year. Similar with other news outlets. They are all doing fantastically well.
The reporter that fact checked him live in the press conference? Fantastic! More of that. The number of times Trump comes out with blatant lies needs to be highlighted every time. Same with his tweet about his cabinet taking longer to be approved than any previous president. A lie. A simple lie. Not even a difficult one to check as all the info is public record. Obama's wasn't approved until end of April. Clinton and Bush's, mid-March.
The guy
is just one lie after another.
And you are believing it
-Matt"No Matt , you are mistaken ! I am not believing , in fact, my analysis its not about believing , but about understanding the how and why ! But one can only do that with an open mind . "The guy is just one lie after another." And since when has lying not been a part of politician´s bag of tricks ? Are you that innocent? All politicians lie Its part of the job description, and sometimes justifiable , sometimes not !
Lying is a form of deception !
Deception is a fundamental tool in many arenas of which I will just cite military , diplomacy, policy, and even business !
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"This is all seems a very complicated way of saying the man's an idiot but an idiot who managed to beat the clever woman with millions of dollars and backing of every conceivable voting gadget and system analysis you could get?. What does that say about the world we live in?, probably not good, it's a brave new world in politics that's for sure, only time will tell wether that's good or bad" I agree....
But we must not forget that the woman in question was also corrupt and all those millions came from established "special" interests ! And please...clever ?
But that is all fine , because she is a Democrat ....and we are told that they are always good and can do no harm... | |||
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"Astonishing. Simply astonishing. Fairly sure this will make good reading in the worlds Press up until his next moment of madness tomorrow. Ok ! I have seen it now ! Nothing astonishing about it in my _iew ! Its a typical Donald on the offensive , actually talking Directly to the people , not pandering to the Washington establishment , and exposing the usual biased press pundits for their lack of ethics that result in either, manipulating , or reporting false news ! Did he ring his own bell? Yes he did! But don't all politicians ! As I mentioned on a previous post , I don't like the man as a person , but I understand why ,What, and specially how he is going about it ! Its an ancient, (Art of war by Sun Tzu) and time proven tactic of war ! Anybody who has read anything on tactics and strategy will get it ! But to get it you have to use reason, not rash judgement have an open mind ! Unfortunately the mentioned qualities are apparently no existent or very rare in the media....and some on here.... it seems
Now as the media are not used to not being in control, the recoil will be fierce... but that was the case when he started his campaign!.... and who prevailed ?
Polls in the US and elsewhere suggest a growing distrust in the media ! The likes of CNN (Clinton News Network) and Msnbc , CBS, NBC hare seeing their ratings drop , while the only decent news outlet , FOX news has been steadily rising And before any one raves on about Fox may I remind you the animosity between Trump and Megyn Kelly
Ok. Apart from their ratings aren't dropping. Their ratings are higher than ever. Trump is trying his hardest to discredit them and saying their ratings are falling. And you are repeating that bullshit. But it isn't true. CNN is up something like 37% for the first weeks of january compared to last year. Similar with other news outlets. They are all doing fantastically well.
The reporter that fact checked him live in the press conference? Fantastic! More of that. The number of times Trump comes out with blatant lies needs to be highlighted every time. Same with his tweet about his cabinet taking longer to be approved than any previous president. A lie. A simple lie. Not even a difficult one to check as all the info is public record. Obama's wasn't approved until end of April. Clinton and Bush's, mid-March.
The guy
is just one lie after another.
And you are believing it
-Matt
No Matt , you are mistaken !
I am not believing , in fact, my analysis its not about believing , but about understanding the how and why ! But one can only do that with an open mind .
"The guy is just one lie after another."
And since when has lying not been a part of politician´s bag of tricks ?
Are you that innocent?
All politicians lie Its part of the job description, and sometimes justifiable , sometimes not !
Lying is a form of deception !
Deception is a fundamental tool in many arenas of which I will just cite military , diplomacy, policy, and even business !
"Oh, I'm fully aware politicians lie. I was pointing out that you are believing and repeating those lies, which is why those politicians have so much power. -Matt | |||
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" And since when has lying not been a part of politician´s bag of tricks ? Are you that innocent? All politicians lie Its part of the job description, and sometimes justifiable , sometimes not !
Lying is a form of deception !
Deception is a fundamental tool in many arenas of which I will just cite military , diplomacy, policy, and even business !
"I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan. | |||
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" Oh, I'm fully aware politicians lie. I was pointing out that you are believing and repeating those lies, which is why those politicians have so much power. -Matt" Of course the politicians that say stuff you agree with arent lying or bending the truth and facts are they? | |||
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"Oh, I'm fully aware politicians lie. I was pointing out that you are believing and repeating those lies, which is why those politicians have so much power. -Matt" Matt. The game has changed... It is no longer about the obvious lie that is told openly in public. That is nothing but a draw to illicit a predetermined negative response that will act as a suppressant those of a pacifist nature and a trigger to those you are targeting. The real game is hidden in the messages being sent directly over the net that are tailored to the individuals they are sent to and hidden from all others. According to the precis of research papers I have read with less than 100 question responses a persons character can be predicted with 80 to 90% accuracy, with 1000 or more responses that figure goes up to over 99%. Every time you click on a link to a quiz or check out some item on the net that information is mined and used to build up a picture of who you are, your standard of education, your affluence and how you respond to different stimuli (unless you are using an onion browser). This is mostly used for targeted product placement. Trump (and UKIP) is using it for targeted political messages. If you are not the target you don't see the message. If the message is anti you all you get to see is the anger the message has caused and because you don't know what has been said you cant defend against it. | |||
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"Oh, I'm fully aware politicians lie. I was pointing out that you are believing and repeating those lies, which is why those politicians have so much power. -Matt Matt. The game has changed... It is no longer about the obvious lie that is told openly in public. That is nothing but a draw to illicit a predetermined negative response that will act as a suppressant those of a pacifist nature and a trigger to those you are targeting. The real game is hidden in the messages being sent directly over the net that are tailored to the individuals they are sent to and hidden from all others. According to the precis of research papers I have read with less than 100 question responses a persons character can be predicted with 80 to 90% accuracy, with 1000 or more responses that figure goes up to over 99%. Every time you click on a link to a quiz or check out some item on the net that information is mined and used to build up a picture of who you are, your standard of education, your affluence and how you respond to different stimuli (unless you are using an onion browser). This is mostly used for targeted product placement. Trump (and UKIP) is using it for targeted political messages. If you are not the target you don't see the message. If the message is anti you all you get to see is the anger the message has caused and because you don't know what has been said you cant defend against it." Right. That is exactly why these lies need to be called out. And called out publically. We need to be in a position when someone receives targeted propaganda that they are able to evaluate it. The more the lies are called out then (hopefully) the less implicit trust there will be in the misinformation. -Matt | |||
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"Oh, I'm fully aware politicians lie. I was pointing out that you are believing and repeating those lies, which is why those politicians have so much power. -Matt Matt. The game has changed... It is no longer about the obvious lie that is told openly in public. That is nothing but a draw to illicit a predetermined negative response that will act as a suppressant those of a pacifist nature and a trigger to those you are targeting. The real game is hidden in the messages being sent directly over the net that are tailored to the individuals they are sent to and hidden from all others. According to the precis of research papers I have read with less than 100 question responses a persons character can be predicted with 80 to 90% accuracy, with 1000 or more responses that figure goes up to over 99%. Every time you click on a link to a quiz or check out some item on the net that information is mined and used to build up a picture of who you are, your standard of education, your affluence and how you respond to different stimuli (unless you are using an onion browser). This is mostly used for targeted product placement. Trump (and UKIP) is using it for targeted political messages. If you are not the target you don't see the message. If the message is anti you all you get to see is the anger the message has caused and because you don't know what has been said you cant defend against it. Right. That is exactly why these lies need to be called out. And called out publically. We need to be in a position when someone receives targeted propaganda that they are able to evaluate it. The more the lies are called out then (hopefully) the less implicit trust there will be in the misinformation. -Matt" They don't want to see the lie. They want their beliefs reinforced particularly if they are not kind ones and that's exactly what they get. | |||
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"Oh, I'm fully aware politicians lie. I was pointing out that you are believing and repeating those lies, which is why those politicians have so much power. -Matt Matt. The game has changed... It is no longer about the obvious lie that is told openly in public. That is nothing but a draw to illicit a predetermined negative response that will act as a suppressant those of a pacifist nature and a trigger to those you are targeting. The real game is hidden in the messages being sent directly over the net that are tailored to the individuals they are sent to and hidden from all others. According to the precis of research papers I have read with less than 100 question responses a persons character can be predicted with 80 to 90% accuracy, with 1000 or more responses that figure goes up to over 99%. Every time you click on a link to a quiz or check out some item on the net that information is mined and used to build up a picture of who you are, your standard of education, your affluence and how you respond to different stimuli (unless you are using an onion browser). This is mostly used for targeted product placement. Trump (and UKIP) is using it for targeted political messages. If you are not the target you don't see the message. If the message is anti you all you get to see is the anger the message has caused and because you don't know what has been said you cant defend against it. Right. That is exactly why these lies need to be called out. And called out publically. We need to be in a position when someone receives targeted propaganda that they are able to evaluate it. The more the lies are called out then (hopefully) the less implicit trust there will be in the misinformation. -Matt They don't want to see the lie. They want their beliefs reinforced particularly if they are not kind ones and that's exactly what they get." Who's they? Surely you mean WE | |||
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"Right. That is exactly why these lies need to be called out. And called out publically. We need to be in a position when someone receives targeted propaganda that they are able to evaluate it. The more the lies are called out then (hopefully) the less implicit trust there will be in the misinformation. -Matt" You miss the point Matt, and this is the genius of the whole plan. By challenging the public lies you prove the truth of the private messages and reinforce the belief that Trump is the victim of a political and mass media establishment conspiracy. Of course if you don't challenge his public lies he has won. But either way he has won before anyone knew they were in a war. This is what you get when you dumb down education and stop teaching kids to think critically and to distrust the intelligentsia rather than to aspire to join it. | |||
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"Right. That is exactly why these lies need to be called out. And called out publically. We need to be in a position when someone receives targeted propaganda that they are able to evaluate it. The more the lies are called out then (hopefully) the less implicit trust there will be in the misinformation. -Matt You miss the point Matt, and this is the genius of the whole plan. By challenging the public lies you prove the truth of the private messages and reinforce the belief that Trump is the victim of a political and mass media establishment conspiracy. Of course if you don't challenge his public lies he has won. But either way he has won before anyone knew they were in a war. This is what you get when you dumb down education and stop teaching kids to think critically and to distrust the intelligentsia rather than to aspire to join it. " To a degree yes, but without substance to reinforce the agenda the lie has to get bigger and bigger until it collapses on itself. There'll always be an audience to preach to the converted, then to the margins of the converted.But it's a percentage game retaining the core whilst needing to become more and more extreme to reel in the floaters. | |||
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Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one ! | |||
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"To a degree yes, but without substance to reinforce the agenda the lie has to get bigger and bigger until it collapses on itself. There'll always be an audience to preach to the converted, then to the margins of the converted.But it's a percentage game retaining the core whilst needing to become more and more extreme to reel in the floaters." Again the point is missed, but this is understandable. What you say is correct, but only holds true if the rules of the game remain unchanged. Trump's goal is power, and in reality, absolute power. This is now in his grasp and I suspect that it will have to be prised from his dead little hands. I also think he is willing to destroy the world to keep power. He has managed to undermine the press, he is in the process of undermining the judiciary and legislature. He is already the CinC, the question is will the military obey him when he orders them onto the streets? Remember that he already has the backing of all the right wing militia nuts and the KKK. | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !"I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read. Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here... "He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.” And: "He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.” Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence. | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !
I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read.
Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That
And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here...
"He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.”
And:
"He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.”
Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence. "and yet you believe him when he says he doesn't read much | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !
I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read.
Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That
And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here...
"He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.”
And:
"He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.”
Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence.
and yet you believe him when he says he doesn't read much"And yet? I'm not sure what you mean by that? I never said I believed him in any case. I said that I don't understand his suporters defending him in a way contrary to his own claims. | |||
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"Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance !" I did not know that... I learned my Art of War (Sun Tzu) in the military, where it is required reading along with Michael Collins on asymmetric (guerrilla) warfare. | |||
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"Again the point is missed, but this is understandable. What you say is correct, but only holds true if the rules of the game remain unchanged. Trump's goal is power, and in reality, absolute power. This is now in his grasp and I suspect that it will have to be prised from his dead little hands. I also think he is willing to destroy the world to keep power." I disagree, I think Trump's goal is to abate his own ego, he's a classic pub Mr Right. | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !
I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read.
Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That
And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here...
"He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.”
And:
"He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.”
Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence. "Good reply ! But again it proves my point !
Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!
Fact is, its irrelevant whether he, or someone claims he has no time to read! He has so far beat all those those "book reading intellectuals"
But he might not have time to read now , but...mmmm has he never read at all ?
I mean how can someone graduate from higher education without reading ? And remember ... this was before the net and Wikipedia and Copy paste! This guy must have magic powers then ! In my day studying meant books...and loads of library time...... | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !
I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read.
Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That
And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here...
"He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.”
And:
"He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.”
Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence.
Good reply ! But again it proves my point !
Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups!
Fact is, its irrelevant whether he, or someone claims he has no time to read! He has so far beat all those those "book reading intellectuals"
But he might not have time to read now , but...mmmm has he never read at all ?
I mean how can someone graduate from higher education without reading ? And remember ... this was before the net and Wikipedia and Copy paste! This guy must have magic powers then ! In my day studying meant books...and loads of library time...... "Your reply is nothing but specualtion. Plenty of people graduate having read very little, especially people from affluent families. Welcome to the reality of higher education in the US. And whether or not he's beaten the intellectuals is dependant on how you judge success, of course. He has succeeded in many of the things he has sought, yes. And winning is very much what he based his ego on (I could supply more quotes to this effect). I doubt most intellectuals judge success in the same way. There is no doubt that Trump is popular with everyday Americans. But a lot of that is tied up with his anti-intellectualism. That's why I don't get why his supporters feel the need to defend his academic credentials. He never does. | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !
I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read.
Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That
And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here...
"He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.”
And:
"He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.”
Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence.
and yet you believe him when he says he doesn't read much
And yet? I'm not sure what you mean by that?
I never said I believed him in any case. I said that I don't understand his suporters defending him in a way contrary to his own claims. "so you believe he does read a lot? | |||
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""I think that you've been giving him too much credit. I don't think that The Art of War or The Prince figure very highly in his thinking. He is just behaving like the spoiled son of a millionaire who is used to getting his way and being able to bully anybody who doesn't agree with him. Do you think this is a grand strategy? It looks more tactical to me. There is no big plan." Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !
I always think it's so funny when the people who defend Trump do it in a way that he himself wouldn't approve of. We don't need to argue whether or not Trump has read The Prince, or much else for that matter. By his own admission, he is so smart that he doesn't have to read.
Take a look at the Washington Post article "Donald Trump Doesn't Read Much: Being President Probably Wouldn't Change That
And in case you see that as an example of the biased media, let's get some of Donald's own quotes in here...
"He has no time to read, he said: “I never have. I’m always busy doing a lot. Now I’m more busy, I guess, than ever before.”
And:
"He said in a series of inter_iews that he does not need to read extensively because he reaches the right decisions “with very little knowledge other than the knowledge I [already] had, plus the words ‘common sense,’ because I have a lot of common sense and I have a lot of business ability.”
Now, I'm not using his lack of reading as proof of his stupidity. I'm saying that Trump himself admits to not reading much, and sees his common sense as smarter than book reading intellectuals. So arguing that has read these political philosophy texts is not only speculative, but it would also be contrary to his own claims of intelligence.
and yet you believe him when he says he doesn't read much
And yet? I'm not sure what you mean by that?
I never said I believed him in any case. I said that I don't understand his suporters defending him in a way contrary to his own claims.
so you believe he does read a lot?"I'm not making claims about what I believe. I'm questioning the method of debating going on in this thread. It's speculative. You aren't going to back me into a corner and require me to pick a side on something I have no way of proving either way. I just think that if you support Trump you should take his word for it when he says he doesn't read because his common sense is so good that he doesn't need to. If, as a supporter, you don't believe that, then I will have to ask how you decide which claims made by Donald you choose to believe and which you don't. | |||
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"To a degree yes, but without substance to reinforce the agenda the lie has to get bigger and bigger until it collapses on itself. There'll always be an audience to preach to the converted, then to the margins of the converted.But it's a percentage game retaining the core whilst needing to become more and more extreme to reel in the floaters. Again the point is missed, but this is understandable. What you say is correct, but only holds true if the rules of the game remain unchanged. Trump's goal is power, and in reality, absolute power. This is now in his grasp and I suspect that it will have to be prised from his dead little hands. I also think he is willing to destroy the world to keep power. He has managed to undermine the press, he is in the process of undermining the judiciary and legislature. He is already the CinC, the question is will the military obey him when he orders them onto the streets? Remember that he already has the backing of all the right wing militia nuts and the KKK. " Am i reading this right.Are you saying the USA is heading towards a miltary. dictatorship .Our a miltary coup to topple him. Tanks on the white house lawn | |||
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"Fact is, its irrelevant whether he, or someone claims he has no time to read! He has so far beat all those those "book reading intellectuals" " But that is not true. His (and his backers) money bought him access to the data base and the services of Cambridge Analytica (which has to be one of the most intellectually based companies in the world) and they beat those "book reading intellectuals" by corruptly applying the plagiarised work of psychologist Michal Kosinski (another intellectual). | |||
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" Wrong again EasyUK ! Its actually the opposite ! The two mentioned books seem to be at the base of his thinking, especially when you look at his attitude and stance! Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! This is also bourne out in His book "the art of the deal" Being the son of a millionaire is not enough to be successful, and Donald´s older brother´s life proves that ! He was given the same opportunity, but didn't make it! And no , its not a question of giving him too much credit , its an issue of not assuming or implying like you and others on here do , that he is stupid ! But havnt you learned your lesson ?
Like him or not,so far events have proven that when you under estimate Donald Trump , you lose !
That is what he counts on !
Duhhh Don´t you get it ? Seeming stupid is a tactic , he does it on purpose !
And is this day and age, any "big plan" has to be very fluid... What is important is the Objective....and that so far seems to be to give the world a big shake up ! And lets face it , the world is in dire need of one !"That, of course, implies that you are right. It's always interesting observing people who have that perspective, because even if they are wrong they are unable to see it. I'm not even saying that you are wrong because I am trying to remain open minded. You can, of course, share your opinion. It is interesting. Lecturing us based on no more information than we all have really doesn't achieve a great deal. I never claimed that the Donald was stupid. You assumed that all on your own. You have also assumed that he has an overreaching objective. I said that he did not appear to think strategically. He thinks tactically. He does what he has to in order to get what he wants now. There is no demonstrable understanding of how the various promises he made are interconnected or the the consequences of the day by day actions and comments. It is, of course, possible that failing to retain the original executive order for travel restrictions and the loss of his National Security Advisor were planned. It is possible that he is making a big fuss so as to distract the country from more insidious legislation from being slipped through Congress. He certainly is a showman and knows how to get attention. That is what has driven his wealth. Name recognition, not any particular business acumen. That is what allows him to continue to raise finance. He has been able to rely on the stupidity of others to lend him money and do work for him despite a history of not paying. Again, that does not make him stupid. Donald Trump's brother was an alcoholic by the way so your control doesn't really hold. Once again, the fact that he's doesn't drink means that he isn't stupid and is capable of learning. Not being stupid or being able to achieve a short term goal does not mean that anything will be achieved in the end. | |||
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" Am i reading this right.Are you saying the USA is heading towards a miltary. dictatorship .Our a miltary coup to topple him. Tanks on the white house lawn "I'm saying "watch this space" things could get very interesting very quickly... Or someone may just shoot him... I think he is out to start a war, I just don't have a clue if it is going to be a civil one or a world one. But his comments about good uranium and bad uranium and Russian and American nuclear power and nuclear war have me disturbed. | |||
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"Also, at least "The art Of War" was and from what I heard still is mandatory reading in most credible Universities teaching business and finance ! I did not know that... I learned my Art of War (Sun Tzu) in the military, where it is required reading along with Michael Collins on asymmetric (guerrilla) warfare." Yup ! Strategy applied to economics ! Surprised you didn't do Von Clausewitz as well ! A few quotes of the the latter come to mind , regarding Donald and the status quo
Von Clausewitz
-"It is even better to act quickly and err than to hesitate until the time of action is past."
-"Pursue one great decisive aim with force and determination."
-"If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles."
-" Sir were surrounded ! Excellent ! We can attack in any direction ! "
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" I disagree, I think Trump's goal is to abate his own ego, he's a classic pub Mr Right." I agree. I think it could well be that simple. That is human nature. Lots of people don't grow emotionally beyond their 5 year old selves. There is, ironically, probably too much intellectualising about Trump's deeply insidious plan. | |||
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" Yup ! Strategy applied to economics ! Surprised you didn't do Von Clausewitz as well ! A few quotes of the the latter come to mind , regarding Donald and the status quo
Von Clausewitz
-"It is even better to act quickly and err than to hesitate until the time of action is past."
-"Pursue one great decisive aim with force and determination."
-"If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles."
-" Sir were surrounded ! Excellent ! We can attack in any direction ! "
"Just for the record, the fact that something is written in a book doesn't make it useful, or right unless it is applied correctly or ignored. You can fit what you read to anything that you see around you but it doesn't mean that was the reasoning behind them being created... | |||
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"Surprised you didn't do Von Clausewitz as well ! " Ah, I had forgotten the 'fog of war'. How remiss of me, I will go stand in the corner wearing the pointy hat with the big D and be duly humbled. | |||
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"Surprised you didn't do Von Clausewitz as well ! Ah, I had forgotten the 'fog of war'. How remiss of me, I will go stand in the corner wearing the pointy hat with the big D and be duly humbled. "Sorry Will, that was not the point, or my intention in regards to you !
lol... no need to stand in the corner You deserve more respect then that , as you are one of those who served, and actually lived some of what Von Clausewitz is talking about ! | |||
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"You deserve more respect then that , as you are one of those who served" Nope... All serving proves is I was dumb enough to drop out and sign up!
And I am allowed say that, because I did!
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"This is all seems a very complicated way of saying the man's an idiot but an idiot who managed to beat the clever woman with millions of dollars and backing of every conceivable voting gadget and system analysis you could get?. What does that say about the world we live in?, probably not good, it's a brave new world in politics that's for sure, only time will tell wether that's good or bad I agree....
But we must not forget that the woman in question was also corrupt and all those millions came from established "special" interests ! And please...clever ?
But that is all fine , because she is a Democrat ....and we are told that they are always good and can do no harm... "Not really. While I liked Obama u did not agree with him, however I was also not scared of him; similar for Hillary except I didn't really even like her much. Trump is different. I don't disagree with everything he says especially on infrastructure on tax but I'm very scared by him. Regardless of his politics I simply don't feel he has the right temperament for the job of leading the free world. He's not a democrat (note the small 'd') and that's the real problem. | |||
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"This is all seems a very complicated way of saying the man's an idiot but an idiot who managed to beat the clever woman with millions of dollars and backing of every conceivable voting gadget and system analysis you could get?. What does that say about the world we live in?, probably not good, it's a brave new world in politics that's for sure, only time will tell wether that's good or bad I agree....
But we must not forget that the woman in question was also corrupt and all those millions came from established "special" interests ! And please...clever ?
But that is all fine , because she is a Democrat ....and we are told that they are always good and can do no harm...
Not really. While I liked Obama u did not agree with him, however I was also not scared of him; similar for Hillary except I didn't really even like her much. Trump is different. I don't disagree with everything he says especially on infrastructure on tax but I'm very scared by him. Regardless of his politics I simply don't feel he has the right temperament for the job of leading the free world. He's not a democrat (note the small 'd') and that's the real problem."I actually agree with this quite a bit. People think that because I don't like trump's methods, I must disagree with everything he says. But it's not true. I agree that there's a problem in the US with illegal immigration, radical Islam, certain trade agreements, and even NATO. But because I don't like Trump's temperment and methods I'm labelled a libtard and everything I say is wishy-washy nonesense. I think I'm general liberals are more likely to admit the faults of their leaders than conservatives. I can admit many faults with Hillary Clinton, for example (including her connections and speeches to wall street), and yet conservatives can't even go so far as to admit that the press conference yesterday was slightly unhinged. People are only as polarized as they want to make themselves out to be. | |||
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"This is all seems a very complicated way of saying the man's an idiot but an idiot who managed to beat the clever woman with millions of dollars and backing of every conceivable voting gadget and system analysis you could get?. What does that say about the world we live in?, probably not good, it's a brave new world in politics that's for sure, only time will tell wether that's good or bad I agree....
But we must not forget that the woman in question was also corrupt and all those millions came from established "special" interests ! And please...clever ?
But that is all fine , because she is a Democrat ....and we are told that they are always good and can do no harm...
Not really. While I liked Obama u did not agree with him, however I was also not scared of him; similar for Hillary except I didn't really even like her much. Trump is different. I don't disagree with everything he says especially on infrastructure on tax but I'm very scared by him. Regardless of his politics I simply don't feel he has the right temperament for the job of leading the free world. He's not a democrat (note the small 'd') and that's the real problem."
I respect your right to feel the way you do regarding Donald , however he is not the first US president with this bullish
attitude ,and History has them in high regard ! Presidents like Teddy Roosevelt, Reagan , and Kennedy ! The latter actually brought the world closer to nuclear war then its ever been ! Will Trump make the cut and be up there with those other names ....? It remains to see ....
Funny enough you were not scared of Obama .... but the fact is the Nobel "peace" Prize winner got nicknamed the "Drone warrior" for a reason ! He is the president in the history of the US that had more people killed by drones under his executive orders ! And the world under him became a worse place....
Of course he is gone ! Thank god ! | |||
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"This is all seems a very complicated way of saying the man's an idiot but an idiot who managed to beat the clever woman with millions of dollars and backing of every conceivable voting gadget and system analysis you could get?. What does that say about the world we live in?, probably not good, it's a brave new world in politics that's for sure, only time will tell wether that's good or bad I agree....
But we must not forget that the woman in question was also corrupt and all those millions came from established "special" interests ! And please...clever ?
But that is all fine , because she is a Democrat ....and we are told that they are always good and can do no harm...
Not really. While I liked Obama u did not agree with him, however I was also not scared of him; similar for Hillary except I didn't really even like her much. Trump is different. I don't disagree with everything he says especially on infrastructure on tax but I'm very scared by him. Regardless of his politics I simply don't feel he has the right temperament for the job of leading the free world. He's not a democrat (note the small 'd') and that's the real problem.
I actually agree with this quite a bit.
People think that because I don't like trump's methods, I must disagree with everything he says. But it's not true. I agree that there's a problem in the US with illegal immigration, radical Islam, certain trade agreements, and even NATO. But because I don't like Trump's temperment and methods I'm labelled a libtard and everything I say is wishy-washy nonesense.
I think I'm general liberals are more likely to admit the faults of their leaders than conservatives. I can admit many faults with Hillary Clinton, for example (including her connections and speeches to wall street), and yet conservatives can't even go so far as to admit that the press conference yesterday was slightly unhinged.
People are only as polarized as they want to make themselves out to be." | |||
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"He is the president in the history of the US that had more people killed by drones under his executive orders !" Maybe that is because drones are a very modern invention? | |||
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"Cant say i disagree. I think he did inherit a mess, and alot of the media is very biased and dishonest. i'll bite..... just out of interest how did he inherit a mess? The national debt is 20 trillion (9 of which came from 8 years of obama) Race relations are at an all time low Job growth and unemployment are shocking The rise of Isis and the destabilisation of the middle east I could go on, but if Obama was half as good as people tbought he was, he would be twice as good as he actually was. " The US is completely bankrupt, with Britain a close second unfortunately | |||
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""The leak was real the news was fake" is one for the ages. I mean that is frankly poetic. If that was said by a bond villain it would be repeated ad nauseam in every top 100 clip show." Wow Fatty....! please , care to explain what is wrong with : "The leak was real the news was fake" I get it? but please enlighten me on your perspective ! | |||
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"Tony your stance is ridiculous... You are lambasting Obama for using drones (I agree with you) yet love the fighting talk from the Donald, seem to hold military folk in high regard and are an "expert" on ancient Chinese military strategy. Is it only cool if brain washed 19 year olds are doing the killing (and being killed)? " telegraphic answer Flash ! Not an expert , just well read and informed . Killing people is only something you do in dire extreme circumstances, but never cool.... its not a computer game ! The Donalds Fighting talk might be distasteful for us in the west... But in other parts of the world... its Useful | |||
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"I don't read the telegraph ever Tell me more about these dire circumstances? How many have you killed? " sorry... its Classified
mmm...Dire circumstances , lets see..
Military or police context.
Self defence , if ones life is in mortal danger from aggression ! That might also apply to others that are unable to defend themselves !
Does that suffice ? | |||
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"I don't read the telegraph ever Tell me more about these dire circumstances? How many have you killed? sorry... its Classified
mmm...Dire circumstances , lets see..
Military or police context.
Self defence , if ones life is in mortal danger from aggression ! That might also apply to others that are unable to defend themselves !
Does that suffice ? "Not really Is hopping on a plane to Afghanistan self defense? | |||
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"Thank god it wasn't clinton. I just like Trump cause the nazis don't like him. " But they do; in fact they love him. That's what really worries me. | |||
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"Anyone want to speculate about how he intends to deal with N Korea in secret?" It's another one of those things that the Donald will realise he can't do anything about because it's in China's back yard. I don't know who's fault it will be, but it won't be his | |||
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"Maybe he should research his own facts before stating them and getting them wrong. He just looks foolish and then slates the press for fake news!" Facts don't matter. His supporters will follow him regardless. If this press conference genuinely did not seem strange to somebody then they are not persuadeable. This is a cult. Not just of Trump but of essentially denying anything that is inconvenient or requires change. It's a cult of a, largely fictitious, golden age. It is a very inviting image. Why would you want reality? | |||
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"Thank god it wasn't clinton. I just like Trump cause the nazis don't like him. But they do; in fact they love him. That's what really worries me." Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise. | |||
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"Thank god it wasn't clinton. I just like Trump cause the nazis don't like him. But they do; in fact they love him. That's what really worries me.Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise. "What do you mean by we ? | |||
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"Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise. "Do we? That's not the message I take from history... In fact I would say it is quite the opposite. | |||
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"Thank god it wasn't clinton. I just like Trump cause the nazis don't like him. But they do; in fact they love him. That's what really worries me.Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise.
What do you mean by we ? "Those willing to stand up against the far right or the kkk or neo Nazis by all means necessary . | |||
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"Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise.
Do we?
That's not the message I take from history...
In fact I would say it is quite the opposite."Martin luther king stood up.Rosa banks stood up.Britain stood up against hitler.Both my grand parents stood up at dunkirk and normandy. | |||
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"Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise.
Do we?
That's not the message I take from history...
In fact I would say it is quite the opposite.Martin luther king stood up.Rosa banks stood up.Britain stood up against hitler.Both my grand parents stood up at dunkirk and normandy."Except if we'd had the other King and the other Prime minister it would have been a rather different story. You are right though, it requires somebody to do something. Perhaps like protesting against the Donald or continuing to fight against Brexit in its most angry form. Sorry, I mean moan | |||
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"Dont worry all Nazi/alt right are pussys and we always fuck them up when they rise.
Do we?
That's not the message I take from history...
In fact I would say it is quite the opposite.Martin luther king stood up.Rosa banks stood up.Britain stood up against hitler.Both my grand parents stood up at dunkirk and normandy.
Except if we'd had the other King and the other Prime minister it would have been a rather different story.
You are right though, it requires somebody to do something. Perhaps like protesting against the Donald or continuing to fight against Brexit in its most angry form. Sorry, I mean moan "That will be tony blairs job by the looks of it. | |||
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"Martin luther king stood up.Rosa banks stood up.Britain stood up against hitler.Both my grand parents stood up at dunkirk and normandy." We see things very differently. Dr Martin Luther King Jn. was killed for standing up. Rosa Parks actually sat down and refused to stand up, and it cost her her a criminal conviction and her job. I would not describe that as winning. It took the U.S., Britain and British Empire, France, USSR, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, South Africa, Yugoslavia standing up and the loss of some 45 million + lives including the virtual annihilation of European Jewry to defeat the axis powers of Germany, Italy, Japan, Hungary, Roumania, Bulgaria. I would not describe that as 'we always fuck them up when they rise', in fact I would be tempted to say they always fuck us up because the vast majority of us refuse to do anything until they are fucking us! And I definitely would not describe the Nazi alt right as pussys! But then I would say in armed conflict there are no winners only the defeated, undefeated and dead. All are victims of the power lust, and Trump has that in bucket loads. | |||
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"Martin luther king stood up.Rosa banks stood up.Britain stood up against hitler.Both my grand parents stood up at dunkirk and normandy. We see things very differently. Dr Martin Luther King Jn. was killed for standing up. Rosa Parks actually sat down and refused to stand up, and it cost her her a criminal conviction and her job. I would not describe that as winning. It took the U.S., Britain and British Empire, France, USSR, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, South Africa, Yugoslavia standing up and the loss of some 45 million + lives including the virtual annihilation of European Jewry to defeat the axis powers of Germany, Italy, Japan, Hungary, Roumania, Bulgaria. I would not describe that as 'we always fuck them up when they rise', in fact I would be tempted to say they always fuck us up because the vast majority of us refuse to do anything until they are fucking us! And I definitely would not describe the Nazi alt right as pussys! But then I would say in armed conflict there are no winners only the defeated, undefeated and dead. All are victims of the power lust, and Trump has that in bucket loads." Yeah its one step forward 2 steps back.All but one of the males in my family tree were killed by Nazis.Still we stand.My son being the last to carry my family name.You are right though that only at the precipice do we change.We haven't lost yet . | |||
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"Martin luther king stood up.Rosa banks stood up.Britain stood up against hitler.Both my grand parents stood up at dunkirk and normandy. We see things very differently. Dr Martin Luther King Jn. was killed for standing up. Rosa Parks actually sat down and refused to stand up, and it cost her her a criminal conviction and her job. I would not describe that as winning. It took the U.S., Britain and British Empire, France, USSR, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, South Africa, Yugoslavia standing up and the loss of some 45 million + lives including the virtual annihilation of European Jewry to defeat the axis powers of Germany, Italy, Japan, Hungary, Roumania, Bulgaria. I would not describe that as 'we always fuck them up when they rise', in fact I would be tempted to say they always fuck us up because the vast majority of us refuse to do anything until they are fucking us! And I definitely would not describe the Nazi alt right as pussys! But then I would say in armed conflict there are no winners only the defeated, undefeated and dead. All are victims of the power lust, and Trump has that in bucket loads." Which is why you call it out early. Don't pretend that it's OK because curbing democracy and oversight "get things done". Don't proclaim that winning an election or referendum gives the winner the right to do whatever they choose without criticism or compromise. I appear to be in a minority nowadays though | |||
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"He's fun, so what. Just enjoy it." Yep... The Germans thought Hitler was fun in the mid 30's while they partied in Berlin and he stripped the Jews of their citizenship. They thought life was fantastic (provided they were Arian) as the light shone in German cities and the Luftwaffe bombed Warsaw, they were not so happy when the Soviet troops gang raped the surviving women and children of Berlin in 45... But as you say, so what, its not like history repeats itself, lets have a party... | |||
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"What ever happened to the 6 month honeymoon period that most new presidents get!!!!!! . Most reporters & journalists have been out to get him even before he started the job as president. . He was right to go on air, he was right to speak direct to the American people and indeed the World, at least that way everyone can hear direct from Trump himself, rather than read up the BBC/CNN and other bullshit that so many on here believe. ." The honeymoon is a consequence of previous Presidents not immediately implementing chaotic executive orders, Tweeting nonsense, not publishing their tax returns, handing their business to their families so as to be "independent" of them, commenting on their family members businesses, hiring aggressive and "inventive" press officers and spokeswoman and or a National Security Advisor who lies to an anti-LGBT vice-President. Enough to be getting on with?  | |||
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"What ever happened to the 6 month honeymoon period that most new presidents get!!!!!! . Most reporters & journalists have been out to get him even before he started the job as president. . He was right to go on air, he was right to speak direct to the American people and indeed the World, at least that way everyone can hear direct from Trump himself, rather than read up the BBC/CNN and other bullshit that so many on here believe. . The honeymoon is a consequence of previous Presidents not immediately implementing chaotic executive orders, Tweeting nonsense, not publishing their tax returns, handing their business to their families so as to be "independent" of them, commenting on their family members businesses, hiring aggressive and "inventive" press officers and spokeswoman and or a National Security Advisor who lies to an anti-LGBT vice-President. Enough to be getting on with? "even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn | |||
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"What ever happened to the 6 month honeymoon period that most new presidents get!!!!!! . Most reporters & journalists have been out to get him even before he started the job as president. . He was right to go on air, he was right to speak direct to the American people and indeed the World, at least that way everyone can hear direct from Trump himself, rather than read up the BBC/CNN and other bullshit that so many on here believe. . The honeymoon is a consequence of previous Presidents not immediately implementing chaotic executive orders, Tweeting nonsense, not publishing their tax returns, handing their business to their families so as to be "independent" of them, commenting on their family members businesses, hiring aggressive and "inventive" press officers and spokeswoman and or a National Security Advisor who lies to an anti-LGBT vice-President. Enough to be getting on with?
even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn "...and you don't like mean press bullying him. Feel free to call out your own persistence and repetition | |||
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"even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn " You will in the not too distant future, of course when that day comes you will blame all hose who warned you about the man you are now supporting for what he will be doing in your name. | |||
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"What ever happened to the 6 month honeymoon period that most new presidents get!!!!!! . Most reporters & journalists have been out to get him even before he started the job as president. . He was right to go on air, he was right to speak direct to the American people and indeed the World, at least that way everyone can hear direct from Trump himself, rather than read up the BBC/CNN and other bullshit that so many on here believe. . The honeymoon is a consequence of previous Presidents not immediately implementing chaotic executive orders, Tweeting nonsense, not publishing their tax returns, handing their business to their families so as to be "independent" of them, commenting on their family members businesses, hiring aggressive and "inventive" press officers and spokeswoman and or a National Security Advisor who lies to an anti-LGBT vice-President. Enough to be getting on with?
even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn "...and you don't like the mean press bullying him. Feel free to call out your own persistence and repetition | |||
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"even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn You will in the not too distant future, of course when that day comes you will blame all hose who warned you about the man you are now supporting for what he will be doing in your name." He won't. He is infallible so it will be someone else's fault  | |||
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"What ever happened to the 6 month honeymoon period that most new presidents get!!!!!! . Most reporters & journalists have been out to get him even before he started the job as president. . He was right to go on air, he was right to speak direct to the American people and indeed the World, at least that way everyone can hear direct from Trump himself, rather than read up the BBC/CNN and other bullshit that so many on here believe. ." I have no problem with a President speaking to the American people. I didn't watch BBC or CNN. I watched the press conference on a clip on the internet after reading the transcript and realizing I had to hear it from the man himself. It was an unhinged press conference. I'm an American citizen, and I deserve better than that when my President talks to me. It was embarassing. And there's no such thing as a 6 month honeymoon period. It hasn't existed in modern American politics. If you try to argue that Republicans went easy on President Obama then I'd have no qualms about calling you a liar. | |||
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"He's fun, so what. Just enjoy it. Yep... The Germans thought Hitler was fun in the mid 30's while they partied in Berlin and he stripped the Jews of their citizenship. They thought life was fantastic (provided they were Arian) as the light shone in German cities and the Luftwaffe bombed Warsaw, they were not so happy when the Soviet troops gang raped the surviving women and children of Berlin in 45... But as you say, so what, its not like history repeats itself, lets have a party... "So trump is a nazi? Weird world you live in I don't like the guy or a lot of what he says but he is the president of arguably the most powerful nation of the planet and it isn't going to change anytime soon. I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. It's brilliant and no one will spoil my enjoyment. And even if your extremely weird and absurb link to genocide transpires atleast it will bring world unemployment down | |||
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"He's fun, so what. Just enjoy it. Yep... The Germans thought Hitler was fun in the mid 30's while they partied in Berlin and he stripped the Jews of their citizenship. They thought life was fantastic (provided they were Arian) as the light shone in German cities and the Luftwaffe bombed Warsaw, they were not so happy when the Soviet troops gang raped the surviving women and children of Berlin in 45... But as you say, so what, its not like history repeats itself, lets have a party...
So trump is a nazi? Weird world you live in I don't like the guy or a lot of what he says but he is the president of arguably the most powerful nation of the planet and it isn't going to change anytime soon. I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. It's brilliant and no one will spoil my enjoyment. And even if your extremely weird and absurb link to genocide transpires atleast it will bring world unemployment down "Hopefully the depopulation you look forward to via genocide includes your gene pool. . | |||
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"What ever happened to the 6 month honeymoon period that most new presidents get!!!!!! . Most reporters & journalists have been out to get him even before he started the job as president. . He was right to go on air, he was right to speak direct to the American people and indeed the World, at least that way everyone can hear direct from Trump himself, rather than read up the BBC/CNN and other bullshit that so many on here believe. . The honeymoon is a consequence of previous Presidents not immediately implementing chaotic executive orders, Tweeting nonsense, not publishing their tax returns, handing their business to their families so as to be "independent" of them, commenting on their family members businesses, hiring aggressive and "inventive" press officers and spokeswoman and or a National Security Advisor who lies to an anti-LGBT vice-President. Enough to be getting on with?
even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn "You're right, I don't care and if Easy or you personally like or dislike Trump. However I do care about the reasons. The right on here are being way to defensive of Trump. A little introspection wouldn't do any harm. The lefts justifiable criticism of Trump falls on death ears because we've heard it all before in criticism of Bush, Reagan, Thatcher etc. Crying wolf comes to mind. Well the wolf is here now and no one seems to be listening. | |||
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"He's fun, so what. Just enjoy it. Yep... The Germans thought Hitler was fun in the mid 30's while they partied in Berlin and he stripped the Jews of their citizenship. They thought life was fantastic (provided they were Arian) as the light shone in German cities and the Luftwaffe bombed Warsaw, they were not so happy when the Soviet troops gang raped the surviving women and children of Berlin in 45... But as you say, so what, its not like history repeats itself, lets have a party...
So trump is a nazi? Weird world you live in I don't like the guy or a lot of what he says but he is the president of arguably the most powerful nation of the planet and it isn't going to change anytime soon. I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. It's brilliant and no one will spoil my enjoyment. And even if your extremely weird and absurb link to genocide transpires atleast it will bring world unemployment down "Totally speechless and amazed. | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. " Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there. | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there." I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there. I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up" How? | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there. I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up" Companies that can not afford to trade and pay a person a decent living wage based on a 40 hour week have no right to even be in business. Allowing companies to pay ridiculously low wages and then topping them up with benefits is just a hidden form of business subsidy that allows an inefficient business model to continue trading at the expense of both the tax payer and other potential businesses that could possibly do the job more efficiently. | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there. I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up Companies that can not afford to trade and pay a person a decent living wage based on a 40 hour week have no right to even be in business. Allowing companies to pay ridiculously low wages and then topping them up with benefits is just a hidden form of business subsidy that allows an inefficient business model to continue trading at the expense of both the tax payer and other potential businesses that could possibly do the job more efficiently." Excellent post I think these people who wants all things "extreme change to stick it to the politicians and elite" are making up more and more ridiculously extreme positions to defend the indefensible as it slowly dawns on them that they've been played like pawns and are also the ones most directly in the firing line of the economic volatility they opted for. It's such intellectual weakness to be afraid to change your mind. | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there. I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up" Yes it's become the Norm ! A good idea but not worked how it should have ! Make a good Topic on its own ! | |||
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"He's fun, so what. Just enjoy it. Yep... The Germans thought Hitler was fun in the mid 30's while they partied in Berlin and he stripped the Jews of their citizenship. They thought life was fantastic (provided they were Arian) as the light shone in German cities and the Luftwaffe bombed Warsaw, they were not so happy when the Soviet troops gang raped the surviving women and children of Berlin in 45... But as you say, so what, its not like history repeats itself, lets have a party...
So trump is a nazi? Weird world you live in I don't like the guy or a lot of what he says but he is the president of arguably the most powerful nation of the planet and it isn't going to change anytime soon. I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. It's brilliant and no one will spoil my enjoyment. And even if your extremely weird and absurb link to genocide transpires atleast it will bring world unemployment down Hopefully the depopulation you look forward to via genocide includes your gene pool. . "Unlikely. They will probably start with the whiney c**ts
And if you read it properly it was your bff predicting a new holocaust | |||
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" I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up Companies that can not afford to trade and pay a person a decent living wage based on a 40 hour week have no right to even be in business. Allowing companies to pay ridiculously low wages and then topping them up with benefits is just a hidden form of business subsidy that allows an inefficient business model to continue trading at the expense of both the tax payer and other potential businesses that could possibly do the job more efficiently."
Interested in the well-researched rebuttal that is undoubtedly on its way | |||
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" You're right, I don't care and if Easy or you personally like or dislike Trump. However I do care about the reasons. The right on here are being way to defensive of Trump. A little introspection wouldn't do any harm. The lefts justifiable criticism of Trump falls on death ears because we've heard it all before in criticism of Bush, Reagan, Thatcher etc. Crying wolf comes to mind. Well the wolf is here now and no one seems to be listening." I don't have any particularly strong ideological _iews on the other leaders that you mentioned. Some good bits, some bad bits. This varied from policy to policy and over the course of their tenures. Some more twatish than others. Even the Donald has some sensible policies and some that I disagree with strongly but can respect. However, he spent quite a lot of time lecturing on tone in that press conference. It's the tone that is worrying. The attitude to minorities, women, the environment, questioning authority and the rule of law. I have said quite clearly in other threads that he is not a fascist or intending a totalitarian takeover and rule of terror. However, he wants to do whatever he wants without question. This is how he runs his companies so sees no problem with that. The outcome will be same as a fascist or totalitarian regime. We have Russia, Turkey and Venezuela as on-going experiments to observe and apparently ignore. | |||
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" I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up Companies that can not afford to trade and pay a person a decent living wage based on a 40 hour week have no right to even be in business. Allowing companies to pay ridiculously low wages and then topping them up with benefits is just a hidden form of business subsidy that allows an inefficient business model to continue trading at the expense of both the tax payer and other potential businesses that could possibly do the job more efficiently.
Interested in the well-researched rebuttal that is undoubtedly on its way "no need for research, its common knowledge and common sense, or so I thought. It is not a case of a company not being able to afford the minimum wage but to do that they have had to take money from the higher earners. Previously people would start on lower pay and work their way towards more skilled or higher paid jobs within a company, creating an incentive to work harder and improve their lot. Now the incentive has gone and they all receive benefits to subsidise wages. As SUIT said above, the minimum wage is now seen as acceptable and the norm. I see jobs advertised now for minimum wage that were paying more than that 20 years ago and I know that for a fact because I was doing one. Then there is the other side. Companies that can't afford to pay the minimum wage should be out of business? Well what about your corner shop or cafe for example who can't afford to pay it? Should they be out of business? People might be willing to work in these places for less than minimum wage and they do, the difference is that they are working in the black economy, have no rights and no NI contributions. I await an ill thought out rebuttal | |||
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"I like the fact normal people who have been ignored for decades by career politicians are now getting a voice and being listened to. Though of course Trump's original choice as Labour secretary (Andrew Pudzer) voraciously opposed the minimum wage, Trump standing up for the forgotten working masses there. I don't know about in America but the minimum wage in this country has dragged more people down than lifted up Companies that can not afford to trade and pay a person a decent living wage based on a 40 hour week have no right to even be in business. Allowing companies to pay ridiculously low wages and then topping them up with benefits is just a hidden form of business subsidy that allows an inefficient business model to continue trading at the expense of both the tax payer and other potential businesses that could possibly do the job more efficiently." While that maybe true the problem is there are many places in the world where wages/working conditions/health and safety and environmental regs are far far lower than ours which makes it impossible for UK companies to compete. The low prices for imports from these countries is great for consummers but the problem is every time a job is lost that person losses a certain amount of purchasing power which inturn puts at risk someone elses jobs and of course the end game is the ones closer to the top end of the skill level, the tax take will fall and all the public sector jobs that operate without the need for efficiency wont have the golden goose that pays for them. Every private business stives for cost control and efficiency every day, if they dont they dont last long as a better one will come along and undercut them | |||
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"even your second attempt is still a record stuck on the same groove, repeating same ol nonsense, so you don't like trump, who cares, yawn You will in the not too distant future, of course when that day comes you will blame all hose who warned you about the man you are now supporting for what he will be doing in your name." In my name? im not American, I did not have a vote sadly | |||
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" no need for research, its common knowledge and common sense, or so I thought. It is not a case of a company not being able to afford the minimum wage but to do that they have had to take money from the higher earners. Previously people would start on lower pay and work their way towards more skilled or higher paid jobs within a company, creating an incentive to work harder and improve their lot. Now the incentive has gone and they all receive benefits to subsidise wages. As SUIT said above, the minimum wage is now seen as acceptable and the norm. I see jobs advertised now for minimum wage that were paying more than that 20 years ago and I know that for a fact because I was doing one. Then there is the other side. Companies that can't afford to pay the minimum wage should be out of business? Well what about your corner shop or cafe for example who can't afford to pay it? Should they be out of business? People might be willing to work in these places for less than minimum wage and they do, the difference is that they are working in the black economy, have no rights and no NI contributions. I await an ill thought out rebuttal" Of course. "Common sense". Perception is reality so why bother with data
The reality is, if course, that it's complicated.
What's wrong with diverting pay to low earners from high earners? Is wage inequality not a problem currently? Why is minimum wage increase the only reason for reductions in pay in other areas? Nothing to do with national and international competition? Is it possible that there were fewer people competing for specific jobs that you were doing 20 years ago? Are there any jobs that are earning more? Do companies offer the same job security and career structure that they used to 20 years ago?
Why should the state subsidise companies who pay too little for people to live. Wouldn't the state removing these subsidies make them work even harder as they will be hungry and living in the streets?
If you run your own business it's up to you what you pay yourself. If that's not enough to live on that's your own business. If that is the case then your business is not viable is it?
If you have a minimum wage might that mean that people will have a little more to spend in the economy such that everybody benefits?
FT, The Economist and Business Insider articles below for you not to read their ill thought out, nuanced, rebuttals.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/04/minimum-wages
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/embedded#amp=https%253A%252F%252Famp.ft.com%252Fcontent%252F361764ba-f732-11e5-96db-fc683b5e52db&idx=0
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-effect-on-jobs-2016-5 | |||
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" While that maybe true the problem is there are many places in the world where wages/working conditions/health and safety and environmental regs are far far lower than ours which makes it impossible for UK companies to compete. The low prices for imports from these countries is great for consummers but the problem is every time a job is lost that person losses a certain amount of purchasing power which inturn puts at risk someone elses jobs and of course the end game is the ones closer to the top end of the skill level, the tax take will fall and all the public sector jobs that operate without the need for efficiency wont have the golden goose that pays for them. Every private business stives for cost control and efficiency every day, if they dont they dont last long as a better one will come along and undercut them " The reason we have tariff barriers is to balance this out and the reason we were in an EU with harmonised standards was to make this unnecessary. However, I'm not clear if this means you do or do not think that the minimum wage is appropriate? | |||
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