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The GIG Economy

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By *ercury OP   Man
over a year ago

Grantham

Charlie Mullins of Pimlico Plumbers had lost his court case.

This centred on the rights of "self-employed" workers, "contracted" to work for him

Could have big repercussions for firms such as Uber and Deliveroo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What was the outcome?

I think it's the way forward, turn up as you do or don't please, do something get paid, rinse, repeat as you like.

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By *ercury OP   Man
over a year ago

Grantham

Not had a lot of time to go into it deep yet but basically if you work for companies like Hermes, Uber etc, then the Court agreed that you are entitled to holiday pay, sick pay etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Probably means they get to regulate your hours/behaviour more too. They just need to change their model but the workers would need to setup their own companies to become properly self employed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bloke was earning a shit load of money, more than he would have been making working direct for the company.

When you are self employed you have to put some by for times when you can't work.

I'm self employed courier I do ok but I'm am 100% self employed so have to factor in costs and the like.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He was earning 80k a year. They offered him employed status...which other "workers" went for. They get about 40k!

Could have repercussions for millions tho....

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Having been self employed most of my life,my sympathy is with the firm.

The reason being that is that being self employed you know the pros and cons of it.

This guy was being paid £80,000 as I believe.This is plenty for him to make arrangements for problems in his life that may happen.

He will have paid a lot less tax so his net earnings will have been very good.

Yes if you have a bad year things can be hard but you have to take the ups and downs in life.In my view the court has made a wrong judgement.Cost and inflation would rise a lot if we did not have self employment.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"Probably means they get to regulate your hours/behaviour more too. They just need to change their model but the workers would need to setup their own companies to become properly self employed "

If they set up their own companies they become employees of that, they would then have to become involved in pensions etc,better to lease the vehicle and then charge the firm they sub to for the use and then they could stay as sole trader

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

The point of the case was that he was claiming that they would not let him change his hours as he wanted to work less. I don't know why that was a problem for them, but it was, so fair enough. He was paid a flat hourly rate.

Something like Deliveroo or some of the other firms that operate this model only pay you for your work but you have to always be available and therefore unable to do something else.

That is unacceptable surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I though deliveroo and uber are pretty much work or as little as you please? But I don't know. I see lots of uni students doing it

Places like upwork are the way of the future, but part of me fears being on that bike like in black mirror. When we are all the same and hypercapitalism has reached its endgame to control the masses.

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

The gig economy could be really good by allowing alot of flexibility or really bad if it cuts out a lot of employee benefits and drives down wages. And governments are way behind in dealing with this as usual.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

As far as I know:

He was 'self employed' but only ever worked for Pimlico for 5 years solid.

He had a Pimlico signwritten van, that he hired from them.

He had a heart attack and wanted to drop from 5 days down to 3.

On that basis they said they didn't want him and took the van back.

He has gone for unfair dismissal (or similar) claiming, to all intents and purposes he was an emplyee or a worker (legally different) and therefore was entitled to employment rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The point of the case was that he was claiming that they would not let him change his hours as he wanted to work less. I don't know why that was a problem for them, but it was, so fair enough. He was paid a flat hourly rate.

Something like Deliveroo or some of the other firms that operate this model only pay you for your work but you have to always be available and therefore unable to do something else.

That is unacceptable surely?"

It all depends on the contract, I drive most of the time for a big national company but I am free to take on any other work if I choose to but then I am fully insured as a courier and that's not cheap

Some drive with company insurance and so are tied to the company they are subbing for.

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

Flagrante


"As far as I know:

He was 'self employed' but only ever worked for Pimlico for 5 years solid.

He had a Pimlico signwritten van, that he hired from them.

He had a heart attack and wanted to drop from 5 days down to 3.

On that basis they said they didn't want him and took the van back.

He has gone for unfair dismissal (or similar) claiming, to all intents and purposes he was an emplyee or a worker (legally different) and therefore was entitled to employment rights."

As I understand it, if you are self employed but only work for one employer then you are deemed to be employed in the eyes of hmrc

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Whilst the " gig" economy appears god, because the workers supposedly are free to set their own agenda; the reality is that for the majority it is low paid, the workers have no protections in case of illness or problems.

It is exploited by large companies, because they get the large workforce they want, but with completely no responsibility for their workers at all; no need to look after their workforce, no National insurance, no holiday pay, no holiday pay, no training to provide. They simply take the money( usually paying pitiful rates) and have minimal overheads.

In many respects it is worse than zero hours contracts, and many companies are using it as a " zero hours contract" by the back door.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"As far as I know:

He was 'self employed' but only ever worked for Pimlico for 5 years solid.

He had a Pimlico signwritten van, that he hired from them.

He had a heart attack and wanted to drop from 5 days down to 3.

On that basis they said they didn't want him and took the van back.

He has gone for unfair dismissal (or similar) claiming, to all intents and purposes he was an emplyee or a worker (legally different) and therefore was entitled to employment rights.

As I understand it, if you are self employed but only work for one employer then you are deemed to be employed in the eyes of hmrc"

I thought that too. But the news says he was self employed, did his own tax etc etc

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"As far as I know:

He was 'self employed' but only ever worked for Pimlico for 5 years solid.

He had a Pimlico signwritten van, that he hired from them.

He had a heart attack and wanted to drop from 5 days down to 3.

On that basis they said they didn't want him and took the van back.

He has gone for unfair dismissal (or similar) claiming, to all intents and purposes he was an emplyee or a worker (legally different) and therefore was entitled to employment rights.

As I understand it, if you are self employed but only work for one employer then you are deemed to be employed in the eyes of hmrc

I thought that too. But the news says he was self employed, did his own tax etc etc"

It doesnt matter if you only work for one company the crucial bit is how much control you have on how and where/when you work and if you provide any materials or equipment, I would have thought if he hired the van then he would be classed as self employed,I wonder who paid for the fuel and servicing. I know from when we employed a chap agood few years ago they were beginning to clamp down on it, as always its the detail that will have been important.Its the tax and NI that HMRC are interested in saves them a lot of trouble if firms are doing PAYE rather than them having to track down the self employed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am classed as fully self employed as I run my own van, do my own taxes and pay my own contributions ect.

They get invoiced for the work I do all above board

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"I am classed as fully self employed as I run my own van, do my own taxes and pay my own contributions ect.

They get invoiced for the work I do all above board "

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield


"I am classed as fully self employed as I run my own van, do my own taxes and pay my own contributions ect.

They get invoiced for the work I do all above board "

I'm not sure how hmrc splits it though. Years back there was a big thing about contractors. They all used to be self employed and claimed business expenses for travel. hmrc started saying they weren't self employed after they had been at one place for a certain amount of time (6 months or a year???)

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