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"Iran is a soft target for trump." Anyone who thinks Iran is a soft target is delusional. We have Iran to thank for Islamic suicide bombers. Iran was able to fight Iraq to a standstill when it was backed by the USA in the 80's. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been able to shut all but a thin shipping lane on the Western side of the Gulf at will. If the USA decides to take Iran on it will get such a kicking it will make Vietnam look like Sunday afternoon picnicking in the park. | |||
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"Iran is a soft target for trump. Anyone who thinks Iran is a soft target is delusional. We have Iran to thank for Islamic suicide bombers. Iran was able to fight Iraq to a standstill when it was backed by the USA in the 80's. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been able to shut all but a thin shipping lane on the Western side of the Gulf at will. If the USA decides to take Iran on it will get such a kicking it will make Vietnam look like Sunday afternoon picnicking in the park." Compared to china iran is soft.What would be interesting is if china Russia and Iran agreed a pact to end American domination . President Xi’s call for a new Asian region security system that would link China, Russia and (gasp) Iran. | |||
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"Compared to china iran is soft.What would be interesting is if china Russia and Iran agreed a pact to end American domination . President Xi’s call for a new Asian region security system that would link China, Russia and (gasp) Iran. " China has its own problems in Xinjiang with Sunni Islamic jihadists and for all its posturing so does Russia along its southern border. So it is not surprising to see China making overtures to Russia and especially Iran. After all Iran is the spiritual home of Shia Islam and Shia Islam seems to be the key to controlling the jihadists of Salafism in general and of the Wahhabists in particular. To be honest I would not be worried about an alliance between China and Iran because I do not see either country as a threat to our way of life. However I would not be happy to see Russia involved because I do see Russia as a serious and growing threat. | |||
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"The USA has been on decline for decades and china is in ascendancy.The worlds factory floor is china these jobs are never comming back .Trump would be fool to go to war in the south china sea.However hes surrounded by hawks who want to peg china back.China will win if he goes down the miltary route.The decline of the American empire would be complete if china is forced into war .Iran is a soft target for trump." China wouldn't win a way yet ! But will only get stronger wich makes for a dangerous proposition ! Imagine if Russia and China allied against America ? That could be different ! | |||
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"The USA has been on decline for decades and china is in ascendancy.The worlds factory floor is china these jobs are never comming back .Trump would be fool to go to war in the south china sea.However hes surrounded by hawks who want to peg china back.China will win if he goes down the miltary route.The decline of the American empire would be complete if china is forced into war .Iran is a soft target for trump. China wouldn't win a way yet ! But will only get stronger wich makes for a dangerous proposition ! Imagine if Russia and China allied against America ? That could be different ! " China and Russia are very good friends they signed a $400 billion deal with gazprom for 30 years.In 2014. Western nations are reluctant to sell their most advanced weapons to China.Not Russia.It sells it's best fighter jets and advanced weaponry only to be cloned by china. Russia needs Chinese money. | |||
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"China wouldn't win a way yet!" I for one would not be too sure of that. In fact I would go so far as to say that China already outproduces the USA across the board. Like it or not the world computer industry is based in China, Vietnam and Korea. The same is true of the mobile phone and most of the electronics industries. In fact I would guess that probably somewhere between 25 and 50% of the worlds manufacturing industry is now based in china. However all those US multinational conglomerates use clever slight of hand in having final assembly plants in other parts of the world so they can claim 'made in USA or UK or EU' Most people may not have noticed but the Chinese are no longer a small people (height). They have suddenly become an average to tall people because in the last 30 years their diet, nutrition, education and health has improved exponentially. Anyone who thinks the USA could kick China's but without using nuclear weapons is, I believe, living in a world that no longer exists. To prove my point there is a reason that the USA is not using the US Navy Pacific fleet to stop China's expansion in the South China Sea and its building of military bases on artificial islands in international waters. It's because the US military know they would lose! | |||
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"China wouldn't win a way yet! I for one would not be too sure of that. In fact I would go so far as to say that China already outproduces the USA across the board. Like it or not the world computer industry is based in China, Vietnam and Korea. The same is true of the mobile phone and most of the electronics industries. In fact I would guess that probably somewhere between 25 and 50% of the worlds manufacturing industry is now based in china. However all those US multinational conglomerates use clever slight of hand in having final assembly plants in other parts of the world so they can claim 'made in USA or UK or EU' Most people may not have noticed but the Chinese are no longer a small people (height). They have suddenly become an average to tall people because in the last 30 years their diet, nutrition, education and health has improved exponentially. Anyone who thinks the USA could kick China's but without using nuclear weapons is, I believe, living in a world that no longer exists. To prove my point there is a reason that the USA is not using the US Navy Pacific fleet to stop China's expansion in the South China Sea and its building of military bases on artificial islands in international waters. It's because the US military know they would lose!" This century belongs to China. Probably around 2020 their economy will be bigger in size than the American economy.Their military will probably pass the American military about ten to fifteen years later.By the time China becomes the world's largest military power, I see the global stage changing so significantly that the concept of "largest military power" will seem a bit out dated. More than likely, you'll have large regional powers with global projection (the EU, NAFTA, India) that will have significant sway over global affairs. Add into this the rise of internationalism, and I just don’t think that any one nation will ever again have the same sway that the USA (and the erstwhile USSR and British Empires) once had. | |||
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"If we tie ourselves to the USA we can kiss trade with China goodbye. America is isolating itself up and ironically China is looking outwards. May is going to be tested when she goes to China. The rise of China and India is not new. It is a reassertion of how the world was for centuries. Europe, particularly the UK is where it is because it once outplayed both of those parts of the world. That won't happen again. Putin will do what is good for Putin. He's got an unstable Europe and USA. A deal with China will make a nice little bow." The Chinese government is far more responsive to its population than even the west. The concern is if the economy falters and there is internal unrest. They will need a distraction and a little war will do nicely... | |||
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"If we tie ourselves to the USA we can kiss trade with China goodbye. America is isolating itself up and ironically China is looking outwards. May is going to be tested when she goes to China. The rise of China and India is not new. It is a reassertion of how the world was for centuries. Europe, particularly the UK is where it is because it once outplayed both of those parts of the world. That won't happen again. Putin will do what is good for Putin. He's got an unstable Europe and USA. A deal with China will make a nice little bow." You're right we should make the super power in ascendancy our best friend not the one in terminal decline. | |||
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"You're right we should make the super power in ascendancy our best friend not the one in terminal decline. " Or remain as part of the superpower we are currently in  | |||
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"You're right we should make the super power in ascendancy our best friend not the one in terminal decline. " but that's where we've been going wrong all these years ..... why not not just stop all this playground posturing and posing alltogether and not bother to ally ourselves with anybody in particular ..... it doesn't matter wether your arselicking the toughest or the second toughest in the school .... when they start a fight with each other you're gonna get dragged into it one way or another ..... better to stand in the circle of onlookers shouting "fight, fight, fight....." | |||
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" but that's where we've been going wrong all these years ..... why not not just stop all this playground posturing and posing alltogether and not bother to ally ourselves with anybody in particular ..... it doesn't matter wether your arselicking the toughest or the second toughest in the school .... when they start a fight with each other you're gonna get dragged into it one way or another ..... better to stand in the circle of onlookers shouting "fight, fight, fight....."" I believe that Holland was neutral in 1939... | |||
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" but that's where we've been going wrong all these years ..... why not not just stop all this playground posturing and posing alltogether and not bother to ally ourselves with anybody in particular ..... it doesn't matter wether your arselicking the toughest or the second toughest in the school .... when they start a fight with each other you're gonna get dragged into it one way or another ..... better to stand in the circle of onlookers shouting "fight, fight, fight....." I believe that Holland was neutral in 1939..." Yep... Never seen a violent bully who doesn't use the pacifist as a punching bag when they feel like dishing some out. Seen many that don't go near any of the ones that hit back... | |||
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" I believe that Holland was neutral in 1939... Yep... Never seen a violent bully who doesn't use the pacifist as a punching bag when they feel like dishing some out. Seen many that don't go near any of the ones that hit back... " Unfortunately underlining the need for an effective military and even the outrageous expense of Trident. Wasted money really, except for when it isn't. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for guarantees from the USA, EU and Russia that their borders would be respected... | |||
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"China wouldn't win a way yet! I for one would not be too sure of that. In fact I would go so far as to say that China already outproduces the USA across the board. Like it or not the world computer industry is based in China, Vietnam and Korea. The same is true of the mobile phone and most of the electronics industries. In fact I would guess that probably somewhere between 25 and 50% of the worlds manufacturing industry is now based in china. However all those US multinational conglomerates use clever slight of hand in having final assembly plants in other parts of the world so they can claim 'made in USA or UK or EU' Most people may not have noticed but the Chinese are no longer a small people (height). They have suddenly become an average to tall people because in the last 30 years their diet, nutrition, education and health has improved exponentially. Anyone who thinks the USA could kick China's but without using nuclear weapons is, I believe, living in a world that no longer exists. To prove my point there is a reason that the USA is not using the US Navy Pacific fleet to stop China's expansion in the South China Sea and its building of military bases on artificial islands in international waters. It's because the US military know they would lose!" Maybe they make their ships/military etc to better standards than the shit they export to the west! Just about everything that comes out of China is either fake or just abject shit. Any product I see with "made in China " on the label gets dumped back on the shelf....if we are afraid of China..,then that's the best way to beat them! | |||
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" Maybe they make their ships/military etc to better standards than the shit they export to the west! Just about everything that comes out of China is either fake or just abject shit. Any product I see with "made in China " on the label gets dumped back on the shelf....if we are afraid of China..,then that's the best way to beat them!" Sorry, but it's nonsense to say that everything made in China is rubbish. Everything is made to a specification. If a company goes to China and says I want you make me a laptop for $50, they will make it to that price point, if you say make me a laptop for $500 they will make you a laptop at that price point. That's no different to anywhere in the world. Apple products are designed in the US and manufactured in China and are very high quality, because Apple writing very tight specs and are good at quality control. | |||
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" Maybe they make their ships/military etc to better standards than the shit they export to the west! Just about everything that comes out of China is either fake or just abject shit. Any product I see with "made in China " on the label gets dumped back on the shelf....if we are afraid of China..,then that's the best way to beat them! Sorry, but it's nonsense to say that everything made in China is rubbish. Everything is made to a specification. If a company goes to China and says I want you make me a laptop for $50, they will make it to that price point, if you say make me a laptop for $500 they will make you a laptop at that price point. That's no different to anywhere in the world. Apple products are designed in the US and manufactured in China and are very high quality, because Apple writing very tight specs and are good at quality control." Chinese built Jaguars and Land Rovers suffer from fewer faults than UK built vehicles. Same parts. | |||
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"Any product I see with "made in China " on the label gets dumped back on the shelf....if we are afraid of China..,then that's the best way to beat them!" Really? Do you know that just about every mass produced car in the world has a Chinese windscreen? Or that the vast majority of paper making machines used around the world are now manufactured in China? Or that most of the printed circuits used in consumer electronics are now manufactured in China? So as you throw out anything with a made in china label where would you like to start? How about throw out your mobile phone, your TV, your car, your fridge, your cooker and all your other kitchen appliances, your light bulbs, and your computer. Then good luck with replacing them with goods that don't have Chinese components. I would call you a dick but dicks serve a purpose! | |||
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" I believe that Holland was neutral in 1939..." so were sweden, switzerland, portugal, spain, ireland and scores of others | |||
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" Maybe they make their ships/military etc to better standards than the shit they export to the west! Just about everything that comes out of China is either fake or just abject shit. Any product I see with "made in China " on the label gets dumped back on the shelf....if we are afraid of China..,then that's the best way to beat them!" Western arrogance. That's what people said about Japan. It's clear where a view that the UK is able to dictate terms to the EU and others comes from... | |||
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" I believe that Holland was neutral in 1939... so were sweden, switzerland, portugal, spain, ireland and scores of others " That doesn't really matter if you were Holland. | |||
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" so were sweden, switzerland, portugal, spain, ireland and scores of others " Would that be the Sweden that supplied ball bearings to Germany? Or Switzerland who acted as bankers for senior Nazis and Germany and fenced artwork looted from across Europe by the Nazis and still hold much of the wealth stolen from the Jews? Maybe you are talking about the Spain that gave the German military a place to practice and perfect blitzkrieg prior to WW2? And as for Ireland, would that be the country that allowed territorial overflight of RAF Coastal command and supplied food on the ton for ton agreement (thats the one where for every ton of food supplied to the UK during the war the UK would supply a ton of steel after the war if they won)? And allowed the British Military to set up recruiting offices in Dublin, Cork and Galway? Not that neutral really don't you agree? | |||
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"That doesn't really matter if you were Holland." and hollands 1939 neutrality means diddly squat in 2017 | |||
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" so were sweden, switzerland, portugal, spain, ireland and scores of others Would that be the Sweden that supplied ball bearings to Germany? Or Switzerland who acted as bankers for senior Nazis and Germany and fenced artwork looted from across Europe by the Nazis and still hold much of the wealth stolen from the Jews? Maybe you are talking about the Spain that gave the German military a place to practice and perfect blitzkrieg prior to WW2? And as for Ireland, would that be the country that allowed territorial overflight of RAF Coastal command and supplied food on the ton for ton agreement (thats the one where for every ton of food supplied to the UK during the war the UK would supply a ton of steel after the war if they won)? And allowed the British Military to set up recruiting offices in Dublin, Cork and Galway? Not that neutral really don't you agree?" to be honest i don't give a flying fuck what you think ..... i don't see the point of arselicking america or china or anybody for that matter the country is in the process of being fucked over under the guise of taking back control with one hand while the other hand want's to give control over to whoever wants their arse licked the most ..... it fucking pathetic | |||
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" the country is in the process of being fucked over under the guise of taking back control with one hand while the other hand want's to give control over to whoever wants their arse licked the most ..... it fucking pathetic" I don't disagree at all. However, 52% put us in that position. Realpolitik means we are everybody's bitch now because we've just left the gang. The point I was making about neutrality is that it's irrelevant if it's not respected. You can't stand on the sidelines if you aren't allowed to. | |||
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"to be honest i don't give a flying fuck what you think ..... i don't see the point of arselicking america or china or anybody for that matter the country is in the process of being fucked over under the guise of taking back control with one hand while the other hand want's to give control over to whoever wants their arse licked the most ..... it fucking pathetic" 
Now that is a funny post.
You tell us what you think, I answer with the historical facts that you don't like. So you call historical fact my opinion and suddenly your opinion becomes fact.
Funniest thing of all is I am probably the most hawkish militarist here.
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"So would the world be a safer place if the USA put a big wall around itself and told the rest of the world to "get on with it and leave us alone?" China is pushing out boundaries little by little, now has its first aircraft carrier and has scant regard for the UN. " If the aircraft carrier has 'Made in China' stamped on it somewhere, it won't last 10 minutes when they come to use it  | |||
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"Edmund Burke was right. Governments should lead and not rely or act on the opinion of the people. QED Brexit! "Sun Tzu was right when he said intelligent leaders leave their generals to fight wars they start. Seems modern leaders have neither the intelligence to leave the military to do their work or the balls to make the hard choices. | |||
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" so were sweden, switzerland, portugal, spain, ireland and scores of others Would that be the Sweden that supplied ball bearings to Germany? Or Switzerland who acted as bankers for senior Nazis and Germany and fenced artwork looted from across Europe by the Nazis and still hold much of the wealth stolen from the Jews? Maybe you are talking about the Spain that gave the German military a place to practice and perfect blitzkrieg prior to WW2? And as for Ireland, would that be the country that allowed territorial overflight of RAF Coastal command and supplied food on the ton for ton agreement (thats the one where for every ton of food supplied to the UK during the war the UK would supply a ton of steel after the war if they won)? And allowed the British Military to set up recruiting offices in Dublin, Cork and Galway? Not that neutral really don't you agree? to be honest i don't give a flying fuck what you think ..... i don't see the point of arselicking america or china or anybody for that matter the country is in the process of being fucked over under the guise of taking back control with one hand while the other hand want's to give control over to whoever wants their arse licked the most ..... it fucking pathetic" Mmmm... tried to stay out of this , but hate to see utter ignorance in action! Now, I suggest that these anti trump fanatics stop this anti trump hysteria , and THINK !! 
To beguine its obvious that some on this thread have limited, to no notion of History , Politics , and international relations !
As the saying goes " Opinions are like arse holes, everybody has one " to which I add that you don't have to be one !!
Its stupid to describe and compare alliances with arse licking ! as an example , Portugal , the only country of the neutral list that nothing was said about in the pre war years sold minerals (wolfram) essential to the German steel industry , but that mostly stopped when Churchill invoked the 700 year old Anglo/Portuguese alliance (this is by the way the oldest political alliance in existence), as a result "Neutral" Portugal helped Britain and America by granting them access to military bases in the Azores Islands !
that is what alliances are for !
What pisses me off about this anti America rhetoric is the utter cynicism and ignorance , so here are a few facts:
When Britain and other allies needed help to defeat the Germans in WW1 , who came to the rescue ? .... yes those stupid ignorant Americans !
When Britain and allies needed help defeating the Nazis in WW2 , who came to the rescue once AGAIN !!
Mmmm..... yes same stupid Americans !
Oh, hold on maybe I´m wrong maybe it was the Chinese !
So here a question...!
How many American soldiers have died to to maintain or re-establish freedom in Europe in two world Wars ?
Between 250 t0 300000 .. yes that is three hundred thousand Now if you count maimed and wounded that figure easily hits the million mark , of men who bled for the sake of helping others ! The cemeteries in France are still there as a reminder !
Now I ask , how many Britons or other Europeans have died defending America ?
Very few , if any , at best !
Now for those nit wits that defend an alliance, be it commercial, political , or military with China because its an "ascending " power , instead of the US , I ask : Why ? between China and the US who has more in common with Britain in terms of :
- Cultural similarities , values and identity.
-Political values and democracy.
- Capitalist tradition and free market practices
- Geographic location and influence.
Could go on but this post is already too long !
So guys... please use you upper head... the one with the brains !!
And stop confusing opinions with facts ! | |||
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" so were sweden, switzerland, portugal, spain, ireland and scores of others Would that be the Sweden that supplied ball bearings to Germany? Or Switzerland who acted as bankers for senior Nazis and Germany and fenced artwork looted from across Europe by the Nazis and still hold much of the wealth stolen from the Jews? Maybe you are talking about the Spain that gave the German military a place to practice and perfect blitzkrieg prior to WW2? And as for Ireland, would that be the country that allowed territorial overflight of RAF Coastal command and supplied food on the ton for ton agreement (thats the one where for every ton of food supplied to the UK during the war the UK would supply a ton of steel after the war if they won)? And allowed the British Military to set up recruiting offices in Dublin, Cork and Galway? Not that neutral really don't you agree? to be honest i don't give a flying fuck what you think ..... i don't see the point of arselicking america or china or anybody for that matter the country is in the process of being fucked over under the guise of taking back control with one hand while the other hand want's to give control over to whoever wants their arse licked the most ..... it fucking pathetic Mmmm... tried to stay out of this , but hate to see utter ignorance in action! Now, I suggest that these anti trump fanatics stop this anti trump hysteria , and THINK !!
To beguine its obvious that some on this thread have limited, to no notion of History , Politics , and international relations !
As the saying goes " Opinions are like arse holes, everybody has one " to which I add that you don't have to be one !!
Its stupid to describe and compare alliances with arse licking ! as an example , Portugal , the only country of the neutral list that nothing was said about in the pre war years sold minerals (wolfram) essential to the German steel industry , but that mostly stopped when Churchill invoked the 700 year old Anglo/Portuguese alliance (this is by the way the oldest political alliance in existence), as a result "Neutral" Portugal helped Britain and America by granting them access to military bases in the Azores Islands !
that is what alliances are for !
What pisses me off about this anti America rhetoric is the utter cynicism and ignorance , so here are a few facts:
When Britain and other allies needed help to defeat the Germans in WW1 , who came to the rescue ? .... yes those stupid ignorant Americans !
When Britain and allies needed help defeating the Nazis in WW2 , who came to the rescue once AGAIN !!
Mmmm..... yes same stupid Americans !
Oh, hold on maybe I´m wrong maybe it was the Chinese !
So here a question...!
How many American soldiers have died to to maintain or re-establish freedom in Europe in two world Wars ?
Between 250 t0 300000 .. yes that is three hundred thousand Now if you count maimed and wounded that figure easily hits the million mark , of men who bled for the sake of helping others ! The cemeteries in France are still there as a reminder !
Now I ask , how many Britons or other Europeans have died defending America ?
Very few , if any , at best !
Now for those nit wits that defend an alliance, be it commercial, political , or military with China because its an "ascending " power , instead of the US , I ask : Why ? between China and the US who has more in common with Britain in terms of :
- Cultural similarities , values and identity.
-Political values and democracy.
- Capitalist tradition and free market practices
- Geographic location and influence.
Could go on but this post is already too long !
So guys... please use you upper head... the one with the brains !!
And stop confusing opinions with facts ! "Cultural similarities , values and identity.We havent been on the same page for sometime. China has terrible human rights violations tibet. 1 child policy or political prisoners etc.So has America.African Americans were second class citzens up to the sixties and African Americans today are still impoverished by the system .I could go on about guns in the usa and inequality and racism and poverty or how the American dream is a means of control etc etc.You only have to look at detriot to see a failing nation. -Political values and democracy. - Capitalist tradition and free market practices.Yes you can have this one,we have common ground.China are capitalists though. Democracy isnt that great and far from being the final political position for our species .China has lifted 1 billion out of poverty no democracy required . The American people are getting poorer in the democratic usa.The wealth gap has increased dramatically. - Geographic location and influence.Its a globalised planet, geographic location has been irrelevant since the age of flight. The pecking order of nations have changed throughout history.Its a bitter pill to swallow but the USA wont be the last empire to fall.The money has been going from west to east for a very long time now.Follow the money.There is no shame in betting on a winner!Even more so now as America looks inward and focuses on USA first. China looks outward towards a globalised world. While America is burning bridges with its allies China is building them. | |||
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"So would the world be a safer place if the USA put a big wall around itself and told the rest of the world to "get on with it and leave us alone?" China is pushing out boundaries little by little, now has its first aircraft carrier and has scant regard for the UN. If the aircraft carrier has 'Made in China' stamped on it somewhere, it won't last 10 minutes when they come to use it "China's own carrier says "made in Russia" on it. | |||
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" Mmmm... tried to stay out of this , but hate to see utter ignorance in action! Now, I suggest that these anti trump fanatics stop this anti trump hysteria , and THINK !!
To beguine its obvious that some on this thread have limited, to no notion of History , Politics , and international relations !
As the saying goes " Opinions are like arse holes, everybody has one " to which I add that you don't have to be one !!
Its stupid to describe and compare alliances with arse licking ! as an example , Portugal , the only country of the neutral list that nothing was said about in the pre war years sold minerals (wolfram) essential to the German steel industry , but that mostly stopped when Churchill invoked the 700 year old Anglo/Portuguese alliance (this is by the way the oldest political alliance in existence), as a result "Neutral" Portugal helped Britain and America by granting them access to military bases in the Azores Islands !
that is what alliances are for !
What pisses me off about this anti America rhetoric is the utter cynicism and ignorance , so here are a few facts:
When Britain and other allies needed help to defeat the Germans in WW1 , who came to the rescue ? .... yes those stupid ignorant Americans !
When Britain and allies needed help defeating the Nazis in WW2 , who came to the rescue once AGAIN !!
Mmmm..... yes same stupid Americans !
Oh, hold on maybe I´m wrong maybe it was the Chinese !
So here a question...!
How many American soldiers have died to to maintain or re-establish freedom in Europe in two world Wars ?
Between 250 t0 300000 .. yes that is three hundred thousand Now if you count maimed and wounded that figure easily hits the million mark , of men who bled for the sake of helping others ! The cemeteries in France are still there as a reminder !
Now I ask , how many Britons or other Europeans have died defending America ?
Very few , if any , at best !
Now for those nit wits that defend an alliance, be it commercial, political , or military with China because its an "ascending " power , instead of the US , I ask : Why ? between China and the US who has more in common with Britain in terms of :
- Cultural similarities , values and identity.
-Political values and democracy.
- Capitalist tradition and free market practices
- Geographic location and influence.
Could go on but this post is already too long !
So guys... please use you upper head... the one with the brains !!
And stop confusing opinions with facts ! "Taking exception to the Donald and his policies is not anti-American. America eventually got involved in both world wars when it was threatened with a German/Mexican alliance in WW1 and actually attacked in Pearl Harbour in WW2. The USA acted in its own self-interest not out of altruism. Yes we should be grateful for sacrificing its men, but that should not mean that we agree and support them under any and all circumstances. If Brexit is about the UK being sovereign and following its own path then it should be free to ally itself with China if that's the best course for the UK. Ireland is culturally far closer to us than the USA but that didn't stop the IRA spending decades trying to blow us up. The EU has a capitalist tradition and free market practice and is geographically as close as it gets. We're leaving that. China now has a more free market stance than the USA. I'm not advocating either option, but it's not automatically the USA that we should be aligning ourselves with. | |||
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" Mmmm... tried to stay out of this , but hate to see utter ignorance in action! Now, I suggest that these anti trump fanatics stop this anti trump hysteria , and THINK !!
To beguine its obvious that some on this thread have limited, to no notion of History , Politics , and international relations !
As the saying goes " Opinions are like arse holes, everybody has one " to which I add that you don't have to be one !!
Its stupid to describe and compare alliances with arse licking ! as an example , Portugal , the only country of the neutral list that nothing was said about in the pre war years sold minerals (wolfram) essential to the German steel industry , but that mostly stopped when Churchill invoked the 700 year old Anglo/Portuguese alliance (this is by the way the oldest political alliance in existence), as a result "Neutral" Portugal helped Britain and America by granting them access to military bases in the Azores Islands !
that is what alliances are for !
What pisses me off about this anti America rhetoric is the utter cynicism and ignorance , so here are a few facts:
When Britain and other allies needed help to defeat the Germans in WW1 , who came to the rescue ? .... yes those stupid ignorant Americans !
When Britain and allies needed help defeating the Nazis in WW2 , who came to the rescue once AGAIN !!
Mmmm..... yes same stupid Americans !
Oh, hold on maybe I´m wrong maybe it was the Chinese !
So here a question...!
How many American soldiers have died to to maintain or re-establish freedom in Europe in two world Wars ?
Between 250 t0 300000 .. yes that is three hundred thousand Now if you count maimed and wounded that figure easily hits the million mark , of men who bled for the sake of helping others ! The cemeteries in France are still there as a reminder !
Now I ask , how many Britons or other Europeans have died defending America ?
Very few , if any , at best !
Now for those nit wits that defend an alliance, be it commercial, political , or military with China because its an "ascending " power , instead of the US , I ask : Why ? between China and the US who has more in common with Britain in terms of :
- Cultural similarities , values and identity.
-Political values and democracy.
- Capitalist tradition and free market practices
- Geographic location and influence.
Could go on but this post is already too long !
So guys... please use you upper head... the one with the brains !!
And stop confusing opinions with facts !
Taking exception to the Donald and his policies is not anti-American.
America eventually got involved in both world wars when it was threatened with a German/Mexican alliance in WW1 and actually attacked in Pearl Harbour in WW2.
The USA acted in its own self-interest not out of altruism.
Yes we should be grateful for sacrificing its men, but that should not mean that we agree and support them under any and all circumstances. If Brexit is about the UK being sovereign and following its own path then it should be free to ally itself with China if that's the best course for the UK.
Ireland is culturally far closer to us than the USA but that didn't stop the IRA spending decades trying to blow us up.
The EU has a capitalist tradition and free market practice and is geographically as close as it gets. We're leaving that.
China now has a more free market stance than the USA.
I'm not advocating either option, but it's not automatically the USA that we should be aligning ourselves with."Also I don't remember America helping us in the Falklands ? Strange that ! | |||
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"Also I don't remember America helping us in the Falklands ? Strange that !" Well I can assure you the USA did Mr Suit. In fact the most vital bit of kit I and my mates had while playing with the Argies was brand new and unissued mobilisation kit borrowed from the US military and flown in from the states to Mildenhall for us. It changed the game for us from one of blind mans buff to one of hide and sneak with a bit of chase me shoot you thrown in for good measure. | |||
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"Also I don't remember America helping us in the Falklands ? Strange that ! Well I can assure you the USA did Mr Suit. In fact the most vital bit of kit I and my mates had while playing with the Argies was brand new and unissued mobilisation kit borrowed from the US military and flown in from the states to Mildenhall for us. It changed the game for us from one of blind mans buff to one of hide and sneak with a bit of chase me shoot you thrown in for good measure." It was via the backdoor though. Unofficial and rather against US policy. Lucky Ronnie and Maggie were chums. | |||
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"Also I don't remember America helping us in the Falklands ? Strange that ! Well I can assure you the USA did Mr Suit. In fact the most vital bit of kit I and my mates had while playing with the Argies was brand new and unissued mobilisation kit borrowed from the US military and flown in from the states to Mildenhall for us. It changed the game for us from one of blind mans buff to one of hide and sneak with a bit of chase me shoot you thrown in for good measure." That was probably a "Thank you" forsinking that Russian Submarine. | |||
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"Also I don't remember America helping us in the Falklands ? Strange that ! Well I can assure you the USA did Mr Suit. In fact the most vital bit of kit I and my mates had while playing with the Argies was brand new and unissued mobilisation kit borrowed from the US military and flown in from the states to Mildenhall for us. It changed the game for us from one of blind mans buff to one of hide and sneak with a bit of chase me shoot you thrown in for good measure. It was via the backdoor though. Unofficial and rather against US policy. Lucky Ronnie and Maggie were chums." If you had any proper notion of international relations and security/defence you would know that in most situations military assistance and cooperation is a back door affair, normally termed as "classified" its part of the the nature of military operations and even some political ones! As we live in the deluge of the information age, some seem to think that everything has to be public and on the news! God help us if that was the case! Official or Unofficial , US policy like the rest of the world, always has some flexibility built in . And by the way, the Americans supplied more then the mentioned kit ! Its "rumoured" They also supplied vital satellite intelligence.... ooops that's classified Now wasn't it convenient that Britain and the US , "Maggie and Ronnie were chums"  | |||
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" If you had any proper notion of international relations and security/defence you would know that in most situations military assistance and cooperation is a back door affair, normally termed as "classified" its part of the the nature of military operations and even some political ones! As we live in the deluge of the information age, some seem to think that everything has to be public and on the news! God help us if that was the case! Official or Unofficial , US policy like the rest of the world, always has some flexibility built in . And by the way, the Americans supplied more then the mentioned kit ! Its "rumoured" They also supplied vital satellite intelligence.... ooops that's classified Now wasn't it convenient that Britain and the US , "Maggie and Ronnie were chums" "In the future it might be convenient if we're chums with China or is that never, ever possible? | |||
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" Also I don't remember America helping us in the Falklands ? Strange that !" They did. You might remember merchant ships being requisitioned? I can tell you of two that collected ammunition, portable runways and portable SAM amongst a lot of other stuff and took it from Newport News to the Ascension Islands. Unfortunately a lot of it was lost when it was then taken on the Atlantic Conveyor and it got hit by Exocet missiles. | |||
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" If you had any proper notion of international relations and security/defence you would know that in most situations military assistance and cooperation is a back door affair, normally termed as "classified" its part of the the nature of military operations and even some political ones! As we live in the deluge of the information age, some seem to think that everything has to be public and on the news! God help us if that was the case! Official or Unofficial , US policy like the rest of the world, always has some flexibility built in . And by the way, the Americans supplied more then the mentioned kit ! Its "rumoured" They also supplied vital satellite intelligence.... ooops that's classified Now wasn't it convenient that Britain and the US , "Maggie and Ronnie were chums"
In the future it might be convenient if we're chums with China or is that never, ever possible?"Of course its Possible , in fact it already exists ! After all Britain gave back Hong Kong ! But do you think the Chinese have forgotten what the British empire did to them for centuries , killing tens of thousands of Chinese !specially during the so called Opium wars!  Now the same could be said about The US going to war with the British empire to attain their independence, but that is precisely where the fore mentioned commonalities come into play !
Now ask yourself what benefit besides selling cheap goods to Britain , does an alliance represent for the Chinese ? | |||
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"Now ask yourself what benefit besides selling cheap goods to Britain , does an alliance represent for the Chinese ? " For the most part China and Briton have had good relations. We were allies in both WW 1 and 2. Fact is China is the same today as it was 2 thousand years ago. The Chinese Communist Party is just the latest in a long line of dynasties, and in the same way as always now that new dynasty has become entrenched, the bloodletting finished and the bureaucracy is back running the country, China is open for business. But as has always been the case, those who deal with the 'foreign devils' be they the black, brown or white ones, or those who travel abroad will never be wholly trusted in China ever again and so will never have power. However they will be allowed to amass great personal wealth and invest that in their children.  | |||
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"Now ask yourself what benefit besides selling cheap goods to Britain , does an alliance represent for the Chinese ? For the most part China and Briton have had good relations. We were allies in both WW 1 and 2. Fact is China is the same today as it was 2 thousand years ago. The Chinese Communist Party is just the latest in a long line of dynasties, and in the same way as always now that new dynasty has become entrenched, the bloodletting finished and the bureaucracy is back running the country, China is open for business. But as has always been the case, those who deal with the 'foreign devils' be they the black, brown or white ones, or those who travel abroad will never be wholly trusted in China ever again and so will never have power. However they will be allowed to amass great personal wealth and invest that in their children. "well put ! | |||
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