FabSwingers.com forum: Owen Smith ignores his Constituents and will vote against Brexit

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

as above, Owen Smith publically stated on Jerimy Vine today that he would ignore his Constituents votes for Brexit and will vote against Brexit in Parliament.

He went on to state that his constituents who voted him in, and then voted for brexit did not have the knowledge or understanding to know what brexit meant and due to that, for his constituents own good, he will vote against Brexit article 50

so is he right to explain that people who voted leave do not have the knowledge or understanding?

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By *tillup4funMan
over a year ago

Wakefield

"as above, Owen Smith publically stated on Jerimy Vine today that he would ignore his Constituents votes for Brexit and will vote against Brexit in Parliament.

so is he right to explain that people who voted leave do not have the knowledge or understanding?"

No he should vote the same way as his constituents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"as above, Owen Smith publically stated on Jerimy Vine today that he would ignore his Constituents votes for Brexit and will vote against Brexit in Parliament.

so is he right to explain that people who voted leave do not have the knowledge or understanding?"

I heard him on Jeremy Vine earlier today. He basically insulted his constituents and called them thick. His constituents will now have the opportunity to respond at the ballot box at the next general election, I hope they vote accordingly and kick him out.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart"

or perhaps because he lost to Corbyn, he now wants to publically piss him off

by publically defying him

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"as above, Owen Smith publically stated on Jerimy Vine today that he would ignore his Constituents votes for Brexit and will vote against Brexit in Parliament.

so is he right to explain that people who voted leave do not have the knowledge or understanding?

Yep, listened to same broadcast, he also says exact same on radio 4

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart

or perhaps because he lost to Corbyn, he now wants to publically piss him off

by publically defying him "

Owen Smith is a disgrace to democracy. I'm no fan of Corbyn but he has the backing of a majority of Labour party members, something which Smith doesn't seem to want to accept. Just like he doesn't accept a majority of his constituents voted Leave in the referendum, and a majority of the UK also voted for Brexit.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

I agree with him.

A significant number of those who voted for Brexit are thick. They were led by emotionally charged propoganda (fake shit basically) that was immediately redacted post referendum.

If you are swayed by lies and are prepared to leave an economic union that provides 50% of your business without any kind of plan to replace that business - you are thick.

I spoke to a builders merchant in June who delivered some flags to our house - he had a big vote leave flag on his van. I asked him what was easier for him, getting more business from his existing local ustomers or travelling out of area to canvass for new ones....

Meanwhile our elected incompetants in the lower house have today been discussing the A50 bill and it appears that Parliamentary democracy is also no longer applicable in this country. Our elected government and the official opposition have taken the position that the country must be stripped naked bent over the nearest wall and tied down and had our arse smeared in vaseline.

Covering our ass is no longer part of politics - it is Leave at any and all cost because the thicko's demand that a savage anal raping is a price worth paying.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I agree with him.

A significant number of those who voted for Brexit are thick. They were led by emotionally charged propoganda (fake shit basically) that was immediately redacted post referendum.

If you are swayed by lies and are prepared to leave an economic union that provides 50% of your business without any kind of plan to replace that business - you are thick.

Covering our ass is no longer part of politics - it is Leave at any and all cost because the thicko's demand that a savage anal raping is a price worth paying. "

In "your" words; these "thicko's" will also remove him from government next election (if he actually gets that far)

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"I agree with him.

A significant number of those who voted for Brexit are thick. They were led by emotionally charged propoganda (fake shit basically) that was immediately redacted post referendum.

If you are swayed by lies and are prepared to leave an economic union that provides 50% of your business without any kind of plan to replace that business - you are thick.

Covering our ass is no longer part of politics - it is Leave at any and all cost because the thicko's demand that a savage anal raping is a price worth paying. "

Well it seems some remainers arent that bright, the EU takes 44% of our EXPORTS not our GDP, exports are 27.4% of gdp so exports to the EU are about 12% of gdp and even with tariffs we would probably still do as much business due to the pound becoming more realistically valued. More scare tactics from remainers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are 65 conservative MPs who's constituents voted remain. Will any of them be voting the same as their constituents? Are they a disgrace.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are 65 conservative MPs who's constituents voted remain. Will any of them be voting the same as their constituents? Are they a disgrace.?

Precisely - I don't really like to defend Owen Smith, but if people are going to attack him for voting for what he thinks is best, then people have to accept it will apply the other way for other parties.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There are 65 conservative MPs who's constituents voted remain. Will any of them be voting the same as their constituents? Are they a disgrace.?

very true; as long as he is truly aware he will also lose every vote

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By *xplicitlyricsMan
over a year ago

south dublin

He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best."

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I agree with him.

A significant number of those who voted for Brexit are thick. They were led by emotionally charged propoganda (fake shit basically) that was immediately redacted post referendum.

If you are swayed by lies and are prepared to leave an economic union that provides 50% of your business without any kind of plan to replace that business - you are thick.

Covering our ass is no longer part of politics - it is Leave at any and all cost because the thicko's demand that a savage anal raping is a price worth paying. "

I'm watching the A50 Debate live at the moment - about 25 MPs in the house - this is indicative of how much they care about it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I agree with him.

A significant number of those who voted for Brexit are thick. They were led by emotionally charged propoganda (fake shit basically) that was immediately redacted post referendum.

If you are swayed by lies and are prepared to leave an economic union that provides 50% of your business without any kind of plan to replace that business - you are thick.

Covering our ass is no longer part of politics - it is Leave at any and all cost because the thicko's demand that a savage anal raping is a price worth paying.

I'm watching the A50 Debate live at the moment - about 25 MPs in the house - this is indicative of how much they care about it."

yes but it is 7:30pm, its time for bar, dinner & drinks what what

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree with him.

A significant number of those who voted for Brexit are thick. They were led by emotionally charged propoganda (fake shit basically) that was immediately redacted post referendum.

If you are swayed by lies and are prepared to leave an economic union that provides 50% of your business without any kind of plan to replace that business - you are thick.

Covering our ass is no longer part of politics - it is Leave at any and all cost because the thicko's demand that a savage anal raping is a price worth paying.

I'm watching the A50 Debate live at the moment - about 25 MPs in the house - this is indicative of how much they care about it.

yes but it is 7:30pm, its time for bar, dinner & drinks what what"
..and the only bar in the country where you can smoke a cigarette with your pint.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart"

Yes but democracy is a joke when you add big data and social media to gain an edge surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart

Yes but democracy is a joke when you add big data and social media to gain an edge surely? "
.

Well that's a different question altogether!.

Don't get me wrong I'm more than happy to swap to something different but just not half way through..... The only thing democracy did half well is keep out the loons .... Back to the drawing board

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

A traitor for going against his constituents,as an MP he is meant to do what his voters want,he should be kicked out of parliament like many so called MP's

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"A traitor for going against his constituents,as an MP he is meant to do what his voters want,he should be kicked out of parliament like many so called MP's"

Not true.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"as above, Owen Smith publically stated on Jerimy Vine today that he would ignore his Constituents votes for Brexit and will vote against Brexit in Parliament.

so is he right to explain that people who voted leave do not have the knowledge or understanding?"
He deserves to lose his seat at the next election,if he is allowed to stand,as I have said he has no right to be in parliament

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"A traitor for going against his constituents,as an MP he is meant to do what his voters want,he should be kicked out of parliament like many so called MP's

Not true.

We have Parliamentary democracy and not representative democracy in this country. We wouldn't need MP's if we had reprentative democracy and the country would simply lurch from one populist idea to another. "
We elect these MP's to represent us not do what they want.We might as well have a dictatorship otherwise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A traitor for going against his constituents,as an MP he is meant to do what his voters want,he should be kicked out of parliament like many so called MP's"
We would have to kick them all out by that logic. .

I'm in.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"A traitor for going against his constituents,as an MP he is meant to do what his voters want,he should be kicked out of parliament like many so called MP'sWe would have to kick them all out by that logic. .

I'm in."

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"A traitor for going against his constituents,as an MP he is meant to do what his voters want,he should be kicked out of parliament like many so called MP's"

Nonsense. MPs are representatives NOT delegates

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Owen Smith is a quite exceptional traitor. Not only has he betrayed his constituents, he has betrayed the people of Wales the majority of whom voted Leave and of course he has betrayed the rest of the UK as well.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament.

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By *plpxp2Couple
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

Rather strange that his constituents knew what they were doing when they voted him in for his poor salary and gold plated pension, but now they haven't a clue?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope he has a backup plan as he has shown he cannot be trusted, who is going to employ him after this

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best."

This is objectively true, but I realise that alternative facts and frelings are much more the flavour of the moment.

So, direct question, should all MPs vote how their constituents voted? Yes or no?

Would this outcome directly represent how the population voted in the referendum? Yes or no?

Should MPs and Peers question the government's policy and ensure that the correct oversight is in place to ensure that the government which has not been elected on any Brexit policy does not have a free hand? Yes or no?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament. "

Good riddance when he does go. One less europhile in Parliament can only be a good thing.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart"

pretty much this..

when you had people post the vote result saying they had 'got their England back' and whilst not representative it sort of leads one to think that such people would have known little or nothing about just what they voted for..

the fear campaign was on both sides and for some brexit voters their xenophobia was well and truly exploited..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

What will the Remoaners do next once the vote is passed on triggering Article 50

There is no doubt the vote to trigger will be passed, with possibly 120 or so voting against it

It will be very nice to see which MP's vote against, their days "Will" be numbered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be? "
.

The key word there is representative, that means they're there to represent you in a legal framework, if you had a solicitor you'd want him to represent your wishes wouldn't you? Sure you'd want his best advice on the issue but you wouldn't want him to put a guilty plea in against your wishes because it's the "best decision".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament. "
.

I don't have a problem with that, he's representing his constituents which is his only legal and moral requirements

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament. .

I don't have a problem with that, he's representing his constituents which is his only legal and moral requirements"

Was watching some of the brexit debate in parliament yesterday on parliament television channel. Tory MP Peter Bone made a speech where he said Conservatives who want to stand as a Conservative MP are asked a few questions before they are allowed to do do. One question is....out of country, constituents and party which is most important?

He then said the correct answer the Conservative party expects is

1. Country most important

2. Constituents 2nd most important

3. Party least important.

Therefore MP's should be putting the country's wishes before their constituents and most certainly before their party's wishes. The country voted Leave so each MP in Parliament should be backing this bill.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament. .

I don't have a problem with that, he's representing his constituents which is his only legal and moral requirements

He then said the correct answer the Conservative party expects is

1. Country most important

2. Constituents 2nd most important

3. Party least important.

If they are required to put country before everything; then they should undoubtedly vote for what they believe is best for the country .

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be? .

You are talking about a one on one relationship and trying to compare that to an MP that is a ~70,000 on one relationship, it's not the same and goes to show you don't really understand the system of democracy we have in this country.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament. .

I don't have a problem with that, he's representing his constituents which is his only legal and moral requirements

He then said the correct answer the Conservative party expects is

1. Country most important

2. Constituents 2nd most important

3. Party least important.

Again, you seem to be confused about the type of democracy we have. It the scenario mentioned above its what's best for the country, what's best for the constituents and what's best for the party.

Remaining in the EU is what's best for the country.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best.

This is objectively true, but I realise that alternative facts and frelings are much more the flavour of the moment.

So, direct question, should all MPs vote how their constituents voted? Yes or no?

Would this outcome directly represent how the population voted in the referendum? Yes or no?

No angry people want to answer this then? Too complicated? Not easy to give a simple soundbite answer to?

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"What will the Remoaners do next once the vote is passed on triggering Article 50

There is no doubt the vote to trigger will be passed, with possibly 120 or so voting against it

It will be very nice to see which MP's vote against, their days "Will" be numbered

Im sure that'll happen in Scotland.....

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

just out of interest, what do people who vote leave think of mp's who voted leave tonight in parts of the country where their constiuants voted remain?

there are about 30-40 tory mp's in this boat... and a lot of them are very, very high profile "brexiteers"

so should they be treated the same way?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Tory Ken Clarke will defy the party whip and vote with his remain constituents.

Then he is retiring at the end of this parliament. .

I don't have a problem with that, he's representing his constituents which is his only legal and moral requirements

He then said the correct answer the Conservative party expects is

1. Country most important

2. Constituents 2nd most important

3. Party least important.

Again, you seem to be confused about the type of democracy we have. It the scenario mentioned above its what's best for the country, what's best for the constituents and what's best for the party.

Remaining in the EU is what's best for the country."

No it isn't. Parliament voted with a good majority (6 to 1) to let the people decide this in a referendum. They passed this decision over to the people. The people decided it's best for the country to Leave the EU. Now MP's have an obligation to carry out the peoples instruction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"just out of interest, what do people who vote leave think of mp's who voted leave tonight in parts of the country where their constiuants voted remain?

there are about 30-40 tory mp's in this boat... and a lot of them are very, very high profile "brexiteers"

so should they be treated the same way?"

I think they should support thier constituency in the way they vote, that's what they were voted in to do

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"just out of interest, what do people who vote leave think of mp's who voted leave tonight in parts of the country where their constiuants voted remain?

there are about 30-40 tory mp's in this boat... and a lot of them are very, very high profile "brexiteers"

so should they be treated the same way?"

Refer you to earlier post about Tory MP Peter Bone's comments that Conservatives put country before constituents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Owen Smith is a disgrace to democracy. "

Yes you feel the need to dictate to him how he should cast his own vote in a parliamentary ballot.

Do you not see some irony in that ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think they should support thier constituency in the way they vote, that's what they were voted in to do "

I always thought we elected them to make decisions for us that they thought would be for the good of their constituents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best.

This is objectively true, but I realise that alternative facts and frelings are much more the flavour of the moment.

So, direct question, should all MPs vote how their constituents voted? Yes or no?

Would this outcome directly represent how the population voted in the referendum? Yes or no?

No angry people want to answer this then? Too complicated? Not easy to give a simple soundbite answer to?"

ALL MP's should vote how they feel it benefits the country as a whole best and not how their constituents voted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be? .

I'm not following your logic there?.

Are you saying there is no one on one relationship with an MP and his constitute?, If so what's the point of MPs having an office and dedicating time to constitutes

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"just out of interest, what do people who vote leave think of mp's who voted leave tonight in parts of the country where their constiuants voted remain?

there are about 30-40 tory mp's in this boat... and a lot of them are very, very high profile "brexiteers"

so should they be treated the same way?

Refer you to earlier post about Tory MP Peter Bone's comments that Conservatives put country before constituents. "

so you are deriding owen smith for voting against the wishes of his constiuants... but giving the likes of boris johnson, and iain duncan smith a pass for voting against the wishes of THEIR constiuants....

at least we all know where you stand....

shall i use the word "hypocrite"... or shall i find another word in the theasaurus

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By *immyXXMan
over a year ago

Pontypridd

As one of Owen smiths constituents, and someone that listened to the Jeremy vine interview, I was stunned by the total lack of knowledge he showed for the people that voted for him, and those he represents, it seemed to me that he had an pre written statement which he kept repeating, in the mislead way that only he thought was impressive, but made him sound like an idiot,,, people in his constituency, are starting to see through his hypocritical views, which are not lead by conscience but by a conscience effort to get his face on tv, he has no respect for the views of the constituency and now the constituency are starting to have no respect for him,at the moment he is totally ignoring what is going on in pontypridd to further his own career, and this is going to be his downfall, he is not a good enough politician to do this and this showed with his attempt to become labour leader, the people of pontypridd are not stupid but maybe their MP is,, and it's a shame that we are stuck with him!!

Please mr smith if our opinion and ability to make correct decisions are so bad, then please please feel free to either have a second vote on your position which was also elected on false promises, or better still follow your conscience and leave,, you will not be missed!!!!!!!!

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

So 48% of MPs should vote against it.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

So 48% of MPs should vote against it."

That would still give a majority 52% of MP's voting in favour of the bill

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

The Brexit white paper laying out government policy will be made available after the vote on Article 50.

Independent:

http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=DH820c1888c_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234

Luckily our democracy is far more transparent and better than that European version

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

So 48% of MPs should vote against it.

That would still give a majority 52% of MP's voting in favour of the bill

Sigh.

Yes it would, but that would atbe least be a consistent position for you to put despite not actually understanding how the Parliamentary sovereignty that's so important to you works

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"just out of interest, what do people who vote leave think of mp's who voted leave tonight in parts of the country where their constiuants voted remain?

there are about 30-40 tory mp's in this boat... and a lot of them are very, very high profile "brexiteers"

so should they be treated the same way?

Refer you to earlier post about Tory MP Peter Bone's comments that Conservatives put country before constituents.

at least we all know where you stand....

shall i use the word "hypocrite"... or shall i find another word in the theasaurus"

No hypocrisy at all, maybe you are not too good with logic? Boris Johnson and Ian Duncan Smith are voting how the country voted, Owen Smith should be doing the same and vote how the country voted, not his constituents. Country comes before constituents.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

So 48% of MPs should vote against it.

That would still give a majority 52% of MP's voting in favour of the bill

Sigh.

Yes it would, but that would atbe least be a consistent position for you to put despite not actually understanding how the Parliamentary sovereignty that's so important to you works

I understand perfectly well how it works thanks. You and other remainers keep squirming and trying to find ways to go around it and ways to overturn the referendum result. It won't work, this bill WILL be passed and Teresa May WILL trigger article 50 and Britain WILL leave the EU. The genie is out the bottle now and it won't go back in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Brexit white paper laying out government policy will be made available after the vote on Article 50.

Independent:

http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=DH820c1888c_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234

Luckily our democracy is far more transparent and better than that European version

Only after the vote ?

whats the fucking point of that.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"As one of Owen smiths constituents, and someone that listened to the Jeremy vine interview, I was stunned by the total lack of knowledge he showed for the people that voted for him, and those he represents, it seemed to me that he had an pre written statement which he kept repeating, in the mislead way that only he thought was impressive, but made him sound like an idiot,,, people in his constituency, are starting to see through his hypocritical views, which are not lead by conscience but by a conscience effort to get his face on tv, he has no respect for the views of the constituency and now the constituency are starting to have no respect for him,at the moment he is totally ignoring what is going on in pontypridd to further his own career, and this is going to be his downfall, he is not a good enough politician to do this and this showed with his attempt to become labour leader, the people of pontypridd are not stupid but maybe their MP is,, and it's a shame that we are stuck with him!!

Great post.

I think Owen Smith signed his own P45 with that interview yesterday on the Jeremy Vine show.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"What will the Remoaners do next once the vote is passed on triggering Article 50

There is no doubt the vote to trigger will be passed, with possibly 120 or so voting against it

It will be very nice to see which MP's vote against, their days "Will" be numbered

They will say it's not democratic......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree with that, I belive an MP is elected to represent his constituents in parliament and their wishes should come above all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best."

But we DID have a referendum on this point. The country, and his own electorate voted out.

That's a simple fact.

He has a right to vote whichever way he wishes...and then to face his electors at the next opportunity. Bye bye Owen!

As for brexit voters being "thick" that seems to be the only argument left to the remainers. Given that the governments own (£17million) leaflet, ALL the leaders of the political parties, BOE, et al made it very very clear that out of the EU court, out of open borders etc also meant out of single market there is no reputable argument that anyone voted in ignorance.

I've spoken to hundreds of people, from either side....not a single one was unclear what brexit meant. Insulting them will not change anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be? "

Couldn't agree more.

All this traitor shite and bullshit nonesense & referendum was legally binding bollocks coming from the misguided on these forums goes a long way in proving what this MP has actually said was probably totally fucking correct.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Country comes before constituents. "

thanks centaur.... next time we talk about projects like HS2 for example.... can i use your logic?????

we may have just stamped out NIMBY-ism.....

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Country comes before constituents.

thanks centaur.... next time we talk about projects like HS2 for example.... can i use your logic?????

we may have just stamped out NIMBY-ism.....

ooooh.... does the 3rd runway at heathrow come under the same defination........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

"
.

If we can get past the name calling.

Power at heart rests with the people, we elect somebody to represent us in parliament, that person works for the best intentions of the people who elected them, their constituents, the minute you call a referendum that MP now knows exactly how the majority of his constituents would vote and therefore that power was temporarily handed over on "best judgement" , the decision was effectively made for them?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Country comes before constituents.

thanks centaur.... next time we talk about projects like HS2 for example.... can i use your logic?????

we may have just stamped out NIMBY-ism.....

ooooh.... does the 3rd runway at heathrow come under the same defination........"
.

That's exactly right and my point, MPs are elected by constitute for they're interests not the country's and not the parties

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Jolly good. Explain the relationship between government, the two houses of Parliament and the judiciary. When it comes to the creation and interpretation of legislation, what do you think they do?

In fact, what is a representative democracy?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

That's exactly right and my point, MPs are elected by constitute for they're interests not the country's and not the parties"

No. They do both. The long term benefit to the country may outweigh the short term needs of local constituents.

Constituents can also be outright wrong, as can an MP. As a ludicrous example, should an MP peruse his constituents express desire to be allowed to beat their wives?

They are elected on the basis of their party's manifesto policies so they are constrained to follow these promises too.

Ultimately an MP is free to vote any way on any topic. There may be consequences, but there is no constraint. What ever you as an individual may want or belie, that is the reality.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be? .

I'm not following your logic there?.

Are you saying there is no one on one relationship with an MP and his constitute?, If so what's the point of MPs having an office and dedicating time to constitutes"

a solicitor usually has one client and can represent the interests of that single client. An MP on the other hand has approximately 70,000 constituents. No area of the country had a 100% turn out, or 100% voting for either Leave or Remain, therefore it stands to reason that every MP will have some constituents that want to remain and some that want to leave. The MP however only has a single vote in Parliament, not 70,000 votes. Therefore they have to decide what is in the best interest of their constituents and vote accordingly. That is the political system we have in the UK.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

That's exactly right and my point, MPs are elected by constitute for they're interests not the country's and not the parties

No. They do both. The long term benefit to the country may outweigh the short term needs of local constituents.

Constituents can also be outright wrong, as can an MP. As a ludicrous example, should an MP peruse his constituents express desire to be allowed to beat their wives?

They are elected on the basis of their party's manifesto policies so they are constrained to follow these promises too.

Ultimately an MP is free to vote any way on any topic. There may be consequences, but there is no constraint. What ever you as an individual may want or belie, that is the reality."

Well the other caveat to throw in, is that most votes are whipped, and MPs are expected to vote along party lines, therefore often not allowing MPs to vote anyway on any topic. This has a greater or lesser impact on the MP if they are backbenchers or members of the cabinet/shadow cabinet.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Let's run a sweep on the amount of resignations tomorrow of MP's who:-

1. Go against their constituents wishes.

2. Go against their party whip.

My guess is it will be a big fat zero on both counts.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

Power doesn’t rest with the people, it rests with Parliament. We have a representative parliamentary democracy in this country. Anyone arguing that we don’t is simply reinforcing Owen Smith’s point.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Let's run a sweep on the amount of resignations tomorrow of MP's who:-

1. Go against their constituents wishes.

2. Go against their party whip.

My guess is it will be a big fat zero on both counts.

People have already resigned their position in the shadow cabinet over their intention to vote against the party whip.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Let's run a sweep on the amount of resignations tomorrow of MP's who:-

1. Go against their constituents wishes.

2. Go against their party whip.

My guess is it will be a big fat zero on both counts.

People have already resigned their position in the shadow cabinet over their intention to vote against the party whip."

Are there any that fall into both categories?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You wont hear one brexiter complain about tory MPs voting against their constituents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You wont hear one brexiter complain about tory MPs voting against their constituents.

Ha, it seems to be on here that if a constituency voted leave then the MP should vote the same but if another MP's constituency voted remain then that MP shouldn't vote the same but vote as the small majority of the country did

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?"

Might be some small subheading in a book of Law somewhere.

You normally talk sense but im struggling to see any in that quote

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?"

Ok, if its cobblers, it should be really really easy to prove me wrong. For example you could give me the name of a single law that exists that was written by “the people” that Parliament objected to, but through the power of “the people” still became a law against Parliament’s wishes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

Fuck your laws, I'm taking about the basics.... What power does parliament assume to govern me by?.. It can't be taken only given, power lies in me and every citizen, we temporarily hand that power over to elected representatives..

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people"

OK, fuck the laws

Also Parliament has a legitimate monopoly on the use of violence, so there is that too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

he seemed quite happy to listen to them because he wanted their votes though didn't he? you cant have your cake and eat it

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By *omaMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I believe the MP in question was elected by his constituency and his job is to represent those voters in Parliament. . . He is there to serve them, so his vote in Parliament should have represented the views of his constituency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people

OK, fuck the laws

Also Parliament has a legitimate monopoly on the use of violence, so there is that too. "
.

There not fucking laws passed down by God almighty for Christ sake their man made by elected representatives working on the best intentions of the people who elected them?.... Sovereignty doesn't lie with parliament or the Queen or some bit of land called the UK... It lies in ever person who's a UK citizen.... Parliament doesn't have a monopoly on anything, at any time that power can be removed by the people, and that's why people hold power not governments

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By *immyXXMan
over a year ago

Pontypridd

Again as one of Owen smiths constituents I can firmly remember the pre election promise to stand up for the people of pontypridd and ensure their voices and issues are heard in parliament, and that we could trust him to put our issues first,

He isn't doing this,, and his argument is that people were lied too???

Pot and kettle,, he is doing what he wants to further his status as a career politician and riding shotgun over all of his promises, and constituents voices and issues,, I find it slightly comical that those that agree with what he's doing also think we were lied to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people"

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Parliament pass Laws that we as the people have to abide by.

If we as in the people don't abide by those laws then we are held to account and punished accordingly by the instruments of the government by the way of the police - courts etc

So the power that parliament assumes to govern you is through the laws that they pass in parliament and like it or not you are governed by that process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it really comes down to people who "know better" then we should at least start putting minimum qualifications on getting into Parliament, however the reasons we don't is we live in a representative system and to represent everybody as best as possible you will have to elect some idiots as well as some clever folks as well as left, right, center because people are different!.

If we're going for a technocracy, I'm fine with that but where's the technocrats in parliament?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people

OK, fuck the laws

Also Parliament has a legitimate monopoly on the use of violence, so there is that too. .

Power is given to parliament by the people to enable parliament to govern them, but that power can only be taken away from any MP at election timrs nit whenever the people want.

Like it or not, YOU ARE GOVERNED to the hilt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Parliament pass Laws that we as the people have to abide by.

If we as in the people don't abide by those laws then we are held to account and punished accordingly by the instruments of the government by the way of the police - courts etc

So the power that parliament assumes to govern you is through the laws that they pass in parliament and like it or not you are governed by that process."
.

And where did parliament get the power to pass the laws from?... It's a mutual agreement thing you know!

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UK is a representative democracy, you elect a representative that is to vote however they see fit on the issue at hand.

We do not have a direct democracy, nor do we elect delegates who's role is to vote in a predetermined way on the issue at hand.

If people really don't understand the basics of even what type of political system we have in the country, how far off the mark can Owen Smith's comments really be?

Couldn't agree more.

If we can get past the name calling.

That's cobblers... Who gives this mystical power to parliament?

This isn't a dictatorship you have no legal rights to rule over people

OK, fuck the laws

Also Parliament has a legitimate monopoly on the use of violence, so there is that too. .

Well as all laws passed by parliament require royal ascent, it depends on if you believe in the divine right of kings or not.

Parliament does indeed have multiple monopolies, including on the use of violence. Again, if I am wrong, it should be easy enough to prove me wrong. If you could explain the process by which we the people are able to legally deploy military forces, against the will of parliament, that would be really helpful.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Argue the toss all you like. I like living in this country, love it's parliamentary traditions and embrace it's democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is good, the only way brexit could win, would be based on lies.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Argue the toss all you like. I like living in this country, love it's parliamentary traditions and embrace it's democracy.

Right, so you agree that MPs should vote how they think is best then, not just want their constituents want.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Argue the toss all you like. I like living in this country, love it's parliamentary traditions and embrace it's democracy.

Right, so you agree that MPs should vote how they think is best then, not just want their constituents want."
.

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe what they think best is what their constituents thinks best as well?.... Unless otherwise proven by let's say a referendum?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or are you saying they vote against the best wishes of their constituents all the time but still manage to get re-elected?

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Argue the toss all you like. I like living in this country, love it's parliamentary traditions and embrace it's democracy.

Right, so you agree that MPs should vote how they think is best then, not just want their constituents want..

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe what they think best is what their constituents thinks best as well?.... Unless otherwise proven by let's say a referendum?"

Re-read what I have said, it doesn’t say that what they think is right is necessarily different from what some of their constituents says does it? But like I said above, no constituency have a 100% vote either way.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

An MP balances the views and needs of his constituents (which are multiple), those of the country as a whole (which are multiple), the policies of the party whose manifesto he was elected on and his personal opinions and conscience.

On different subjects, this balance will change.

It's not statistical or mathematical or simple.

That is the only process that could possibly work. That is the process.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Jolly good. Explain the relationship between government, the two houses of Parliament and the judiciary. When it comes to the creation and interpretation of legislation, what do you think they do?

In fact, what is a representative democracy?"

I notice that those with a very clear opinion as to how an MP should vote has no response to this. It's pretty basic.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"just out of interest, what do people who vote leave think of mp's who voted leave tonight in parts of the country where their constiuants voted remain?

there are about 30-40 tory mp's in this boat... and a lot of them are very, very high profile "brexiteers"

so should they be treated the same way?

Refer you to earlier post about Tory MP Peter Bone's comments that Conservatives put country before constituents.

at least we all know where you stand....

shall i use the word "hypocrite"... or shall i find another word in the theasaurus

Exactly.

The Country comes before the constituents;

So if the MP believes that remain is the best, he is morally obliged to vote that way.

Not the way that " the country" asked.

If he /she believes that leave is best, then he is obliged to vote that way .

One presumes that his views were understood when his constituents voted for him in the general election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jolly good. Explain the relationship between government, the two houses of Parliament and the judiciary. When it comes to the creation and interpretation of legislation, what do you think they do?

In fact, what is a representative democracy?

I notice that those with a very clear opinion as to how an MP should vote has no response to this. It's pretty basic."
.

I thought I was very clear, MPs should vote as their constituents voted IE a representative democracy demo (people) kratia (power)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Argue the toss all you like. I like living in this country, love it's parliamentary traditions and embrace it's democracy.

Right, so you agree that MPs should vote how they think is best then, not just want their constituents want..

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe what they think best is what their constituents thinks best as well?.... Unless otherwise proven by let's say a referendum?

Oh dear boy if ever we find ourselves in a situation where 100% of everybody agrees we should be extremely worried

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Great post.

I think Owen Smith signed his own P45 with that interview yesterday on the Jeremy Vine show. "

Yep and he said exact same on Radio 4, its as if he wants to rub his constituents noses in it, he wants to make sure that his voice is heard through out, stating that his constituents are not educated enough to make a wise decision.

Goodbye Labour's Owen Smith; your name will be remembered in the same context as Nick Clegg, Danny Alexander of Lib Dems

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anybody know how the vote would work on a constituency basis?...I wonder what the numbers would look like

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

"
.

I concur!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

Absolutely, and then the UK will prosper as the EU crumbles

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

"Yes and no.

He's right, lots of people were lacking in the depth of knowledge needed to make the best decision possible.

However.... He's also wrong because democracy isn't about making the best decision, it's just about who got the most votes!.

Like everybody else he's making a decision about what's best for him, his children, his business and his happiness... He just likes to pretend he's got the peoples best interests at heart"

Let's be honest the politicians have been wrong on the impact of Brexit so far, and they aren't the wonderful super knowledgeable people that they promote themselves as being. It was a simple choice in or out, which doesn't take any kind of genius skills to figure it out. Don't worry all of Europe will be knocking on our door trying to sell to us.

As a Slovak I was talking today said her skilled English language sister works in a private school and earns €800 per month, so as a nation what impact will they have on us

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

"Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

Yeah the UK hS been a real pain, propping up a defunct currency and bust nations as a net contributor

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

"Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

Absolutely, and then the UK will prosper as the EU crumbles"

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

As a Slovak I was talking today said her skilled English language sister works in a private school and earns €800 per month, so as a nation what impact will they have on us"

Jaguar Land Rover is building a factory in Slovakia, not the other way round. Which well paid jobs are going where?

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By *oorland2Couple
over a year ago

Stoke

Jolly good. Explain the relationship between government, the two houses of Parliament and the judiciary. When it comes to the creation and interpretation of legislation, what do you think they do?

In fact, what is a representative democracy?

I notice that those with a very clear opinion as to how an MP should vote has no response to this. It's pretty basic."

He is elected to represent them who voted him, not to promote himself as an all important super knowledgeable human being who is superior to us mere minions

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Does anybody know how the vote would work on a constituency basis?...I wonder what the numbers would look like"

There was a huge majority for leave, about 75 to 25 % IIRC. Personally I think all the parties should have agreed that their mps will vote as the voters in their area did, I dont think any reasonable person could say that it would be undemocratic for them to do so, if they wish to vote differently then they should resign and stand on that platform and let their employers decide whether they get back in or not

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Does anybody know how the vote would work on a constituency basis?...I wonder what the numbers would look like

Why is that option more valid than the actual political system that we operate under?

If you want to change the system them change it, don't do so arbitrarily when if "feels" right.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

[Removed by poster at 01/02/17 17:31:57]

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Jolly good. Explain the relationship between government, the two houses of Parliament and the judiciary. When it comes to the creation and interpretation of legislation, what do you think they do?

In fact, what is a representative democracy?

I notice that those with a very clear opinion as to how an MP should vote has no response to this. It's pretty basic.

He is elected to represent them who voted him, not to promote himself as an all important super knowledgeable human being who is superior to us mere minions"

Thanks for that clear answer on how the legislative system works in the UK. It's good that you know exactly what the sovereignty that you want entails

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

There's the irony of course. We've been a pain in the arse and getting a better deal than anyone else but still want to take our toys away and play with ourselves

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Does anybody know how the vote would work on a constituency basis?...I wonder what the numbers would look like

Why is that option more valid than the actual political system that we operate under?

If you want to change the system them change it, don't do so arbitrarily when if "feels" right."

Its very simple, we had a referendum on the EU so each mp knows how the voters in their area voted and they should vote accordingly, its not about changing the system its just about this one particular vote and implementing the will of the people, for the remain side instead of saying the voters were too stupid to understand the issues perhaps they should have upped the level of their argument instead of project fear,its their own fault they lost if their arguments were too weak and badly explained not the voters

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Good speech right now from Ben Howlett on the "Live" Brexit debate

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

I have never called anyone stupid, but I am certainly willing to say that the leave side is hardly being magnanimous in victory nor able to suggest how to make things work. The only plan is to break stuff.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country."

ehhhh, NO, it doesn't mean you work out a compromise

face it, you lost, now back your country laddie, support the decision

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Stephen Doughty Labour, will join Owen Smith and vote against tonight

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country."

How many times does it has to be repeated, the remain side said time and again that a vote to leave was a vote to control free movement and that meant leaving the single market so yes its very simple and remainers are very ungracious in defeat, even now you are still on project scare with the country will be permanently broken claim, I have no doubt that the odd company or two will leave for their own reasons but up till now there has been plenty of good news with companies still investing,the only downside I can see is that we may need a visa to visit other eu countries, well thats up to the Eu to decide, so far we have offered to allow all eu citizens here to stay yet they refuse to say if they will do likewise and now it appears that the eu wants to fall out with the us and its democratically elected leader, perhaps they should remember who provided the troops and nukes that kept the russians in check during the cold war

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

..well said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was elected to vote the way he thought was best. Thats why we choose representativea and dont have a referendum on every issue.

He's doing his job the same way anyone who votes for brexit from a remain area is also doing their job.

Its ridiculous to try and bully an elected MP to vote for or against brexit in spite of what they feel is best.

This is objectively true, but I realise that alternative facts and frelings are much more the flavour of the moment.

So, direct question, should all MPs vote how their constituents voted? Yes or no?

Would this outcome directly represent how the population voted in the referendum? Yes or no?

We don't like your fancy thinking and logic round these here parts

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country."

NO INFORMATION?????? How can you say that, Teresa May clearly laid it out in her muvh anticipated Brexit speech the other week. There were tons of information in that speech. Parliament asked for details of the plan so she gave details of the plan in her speech. You say the Leave side is not being magnanimous in victory, well the Remain side are acting like split little brats throwing temper tantrums because they lost and can't have their own way. You are a sore loser. Oh and that 4% margin equates to just over 1 and a half million people, 1 and a half million more votes than Remain got! 17 and a half million people in total voted Leave that is the biggest vote for anything ever in the entire history of the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

Verbal contracts don't exist. Was any of it was on paper, a white paper or bill?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

And provided sanctuary for many of their citizens during ww2 while Nazi Germany over run and conquered mainland Europe. Then the British helped to liberate mainland Europe from Nazi Germany occupation. Seems these fuck wits in the EU have very short memories.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

Verbal contracts don't exist. Was any of it was on paper, a white paper or bill?"

It will be put into a white paper before Teresa May triggers article 50 that is a condition of the brexit bill being debated in parliament now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/02/17 19:39:57]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

Verbal contracts don't exist. Was any of it was on paper, a white paper or bill?

It will be put into a white paper before Teresa May triggers article 50 that is a condition of the brexit bill being debated in parliament now. "

I just wish they get on with it. The quicker we succeed or crash, the soonet we will bring stability back. Hopefully it'll be next decade.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

It will be put into a white paper before Teresa May triggers article 50 that is a condition of the brexit bill being debated in parliament now. "

As I said earlier, the white paper comes AFTER the vote because we are so transparent and democratic

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Any way; bottom line is;

Please,UK just fuck off .

Now.

As fast as possible.

You have been a fucking pain in the ass in Europe for years.

With pleasure

The EU has been a fucking pain in the ass in the UK for years. Personally I can't wait to get out of this undemocratic, over bureaucratic, meddling, over bearing, interfering, wasteful, inefficient, and tiresome fuck up of an organisation called the EU.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

It will be put into a white paper before Teresa May triggers article 50 that is a condition of the brexit bill being debated in parliament now.

As I said earlier, the white paper comes AFTER the vote because we are so transparent and democratic

After the vote but before the triggering of article 50. You already know the outline of the plan anyway from the Prime Ministers Brexit speech. It's that plan that will be in the white paper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/02/17 20:00:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, it is not "very simple".

Do we leave the EU? Yes

How do we leave the EU? NO INFORMATION. Any claims that anyone makes that they know is simply untrue unless they are able to read minds.

Remember, the Norwegian and Swiss models fulfil the referendum criteria.

If one party wins a general election there is still an opposition and the government still has to persuade the country that it is doing the right thing. A referendum is no different.

Neither option was clearly explained, hence 48% vs 52%. That is a 4% margin. That means you work out a compromise solution that works for everyone, otherwise you permanently break the country.

Thank you Taliban."

Sarcasm by the way...

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

You can repeat anything as often as you like, but it does not make it true.

If you would care to remind us what the referendum question was that might be helpful. Then if you could explain what additional information that gives you that would also be lovely.

I'm not talking about economically broken, but if you feel that won't be a problem that's fine. I'm sure it will be lovely.

I'm talking about the 48/52 split which will not be fixed without even acknowledging that this was a close vote rather than a huge mandate.

I'm not sure that you can describe the EU wanting to fall out with the UK when we're asking for all the benefits for zero contribution. Unreasonable foreigners.

They should, of course, be eternally grateful to the UK who single handedly held the Soviet Union at bay. Cowardly surrender monkeys.

Britain is brilliant and everyone else are pants, except for America. They speak English and are also wonderful because they're equally angry.

I see a really happy future due to the vision that has been laid out for Brexit. It's just so very joyful and positive