FabSwingers.com forum: Metropolitan Liberal Elite

By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Liberal. I'm quite happy for people do do what they wish as long as that doesn't have a negative impact on others. I view that locally, globally and in the future. If people are in trouble I think they should be helped and if they disagree with my views that's fine as long as they aren't rude.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

have you ever tried to suck your own cock?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

illbe coomin doon ther frm oopheer in me clogs wif dis ther pich fork tooo bee puttin yee inyeer place if eEE keeps thar oop!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Soovern poosiii!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

oi got me whippits wiv me too an hzz dooins do hum!

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

A lot of liberals, or people who say they are liberal, seem to be pretty closed off to the notion that others can have opposing views to themselves. And, in fact, call the thick, racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc, etc.

And as for elite? Do you think you belong to a select group that is superior in terms of qualities or ability to the rest of society? Didn't the Nazis thing they were superior to the rest of society?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

And as for elite? Do you think you belong to a select group that is superior in terms of qualities or ability to the rest of society? Didn't the Nazis thing they were superior to the rest of society?"

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities."

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050."

Living in an urban area is different from living in a city. An urban area can be anything with a road, utilities, and some houses in it - maybe a couple of hundred people or so.

Hardly a city.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

Living in an urban area is different from living in a city. An urban area can be anything with a road, utilities, and some houses in it - maybe a couple of hundred people or so.

Hardly a city.

I think that many are getting confused between what WE call a city and the world wide meaning

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050."

We are post-truth alternative-facts now. Statistics dont matter to half of the posters on this forum, it's just about what they feel and believe.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I think that many are getting confused between what WE call a city and the world wide meaning"

OK I'll bite...

Please tell me what WE mean by a city as against the worldwide meaning...

Once I have seen your reply I will answer both you and J and S.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050."
.

Anyone would think they are rounding everybody up into areas that can be easily controlled with some fences and a few walls?.

Then you cut the services, food water and power and voila one giant internment camp.... It's of course never going to happen unless for some dire virus pandemic or such like

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050..

Anyone would think they are rounding everybody up into areas that can be easily controlled with some fences and a few walls?.

Then you cut the services, food water and power and voila one giant internment camp.... It's of course never going to happen unless for some dire virus pandemic or such like

You sound like a alt right American FEMA conspiracy theorist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050..

Anyone would think they are rounding everybody up into areas that can be easily controlled with some fences and a few walls?.

Then you cut the services, food water and power and voila one giant internment camp.... It's of course never going to happen unless for some dire virus pandemic or such like

You sound like a alt right American FEMA conspiracy theorist"
.

You sound like one of the Jews who stayed in Germany believing that everything would work out ok in the end!.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Anyone would think they are rounding everybody up into areas that can be easily controlled with some fences and a few walls?.

Then you cut the services, food water and power and voila one giant internment camp.... It's of course never going to happen unless for some dire virus pandemic or such like

LoL

You, my friend, are a bad man!

That is such a nasty brain worm to introduce anywhere. I wonder how long till I see it turning up elsewhere in the forums.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I used to be metropolitan (Manchester ) but now live by the beach.I used to be liberal but not anymore.Never been elite.Although my house is worth over £600k i might be considered elite by global standards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone would think they are rounding everybody up into areas that can be easily controlled with some fences and a few walls?.

Then you cut the services, food water and power and voila one giant internment camp.... It's of course never going to happen unless for some dire virus pandemic or such like

LoL

You, my friend, are a bad man!

That is such a nasty brain worm to introduce anywhere. I wonder how long till I see it turning up elsewhere in the forums.

"
.

It's just logical thought when you remove empathy!.

The first five amendments to the US Constitution and there order is telling enough about how the minds of people given power work.... It's the only honest political document ever wrote

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

I think that many are getting confused between what WE call a city and the world wide meaning

OK I'll bite...

Please tell me what WE mean by a city as against the worldwide meaning...

Once I have seen your reply I will answer both you and J and S."

We only call a place a city if it has a cathederal not sure that is true of other countries

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

There are over 200 different definitions of " urban" based on size, or population density, or distances etc;

OECD hss come up with a possible measurement;as has WDR;

The WDR 2009 approach which identifies all settlements above a certain minimum population size and minimum population density that are within a certain travel time by road. This approach was used in the World Bank’s World Development Report 2009.

The OECD approach: A similar but more complex methodology consists of three main steps: identifying contiguous or highly interconnected densely inhabited urban cores; grouping these into functional areas; and defining the commuting shed or ‘hinterland’ of the functional urban area. The OECD uses population size cutoffs (50,000 or 100,000 people, depending on the country) as well as population density cutoffs (1,000 or 1,500 people per sq. km.) to define the urban cores, and then selects those areas from which more than 15% of workers commute to the core as hinterlands.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

have you ever tried to suck your own cock?

lol or eat your own arm (if its made of chocolate)

wonder if your home has lots of mirrors

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

"That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

have you ever tried to suck your own cock?

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Not true.

They aren't actually liberal then. Find a more appropriate word or phrase, if you're suite that you are more tolerant and able to empathise and compromise of course.

5+5=10 6+4=10 I'm happy with both options. Not everyone is because they think that one is "right".

I don't aim to be mediocre. Why should anyone?

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

It's just logical thought when you remove empathy!.

The first five amendments to the US Constitution and there order is telling enough about how the minds of people given power work.... It's the only honest political document ever wrote"

Don't remove empathy then

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

It's only a problem to be the elite if you're also liberal, apparently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is me.

I'm metropolitan. I live in a city like most other people on the planet. I meet a lot of other people from all sorts of different places and learn all sorts of interesting things from them.

Elite. I work very hard to become very good at what I do as a profession.

If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead.

I'm happy being all of them and aspiring to be all of them and have got a bit bored of them being characterised as negative.

Enjoy

have you ever tried to suck your own cock?

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

A bit like the Opening Post eh

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

A bit like the Opening Post eh

Rather depends how you read it doesn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

A bit like the Opening Post eh

Rather depends how you read it doesn't it?

you did say;

"If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

A bit like the Opening Post eh

Rather depends how you read it doesn't it?

Sure. And I bet you read it a lot

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

We are post-truth alternative-facts now. Statistics dont matter to half of the posters on this forum, it's just about what they feel and believe. "

But the OP didn't say urban areas, he said cities.

And mist of the world's population do not live in cities.... They may live in urban areas, but not cities.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

A bit like the Opening Post eh

Rather depends how you read it doesn't it?

Sure. And I bet you read it a lot

You haven't actually said any thing yet though...

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

We are post-truth alternative-facts now. Statistics dont matter to half of the posters on this forum, it's just about what they feel and believe.

But the OP didn't say urban areas, he said cities.

And mist of the world's population do not live in cities.... They may live in urban areas, but not cities."

Possibly a little pedantic, but that's your perogative if you feel that it's a useful distinction and makes a relevant point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both positive and constructive. Thank you

A bit like the Opening Post eh

Rather depends how you read it doesn't it?

Sure. And I bet you read it a lot

You haven't actually said any thing yet though..."

have you?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 28/01/17 02:02:32]

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Metropolitan: of, noting, or characteristic of a metropolis or its inhabitants, especially in culture, sophistication, or in accepting and combining a wide variety of people, ideas, etc.

Liberal: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas

Elite: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society:

Whilst being liberal and metropolitan are consistent with each other neither is consistent with being part of an elite. In fact the oxymoron phrase "metropolitan, liberal elite" is a mashing together of two phrases: "Metropolitan elite" was a phrase dreamt up by left wing loonies in 70's and 80's. "liberal elite" was a phrase dreamt up by right wing radicals in the 90's and 00's.

Both those two oxymoron phrases, and the current one, are generally used to try and discredit people who are not either populist, radical right, loony left or prone to accepting demagogical, simplistic solutions to complex problems.

I am proud to call myself both liberal and metropolitan in all aspects. If the illiberal radicals and looneys think that makes me an elite that's their problem, not mine.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

We are post-truth alternative-facts now. Statistics dont matter to half of the posters on this forum, it's just about what they feel and believe.

But the OP didn't say urban areas, he said cities.

And mist of the world's population do not live in cities.... They may live in urban areas, but not cities.

Possibly a little pedantic, but that's your perogative if you feel that it's a useful distinction and makes a relevant point."

Sorry, but you did say

"If anybody wants to take issue with any of that, go ahead."

So, in light of so many people on here accusing others of playing with words and twisting facts; I took issue.

One thing I've noticed on the politics forum is that there are several pedants, who are the first to pick up on the odd word here or there, accusing others of playing with words, twisting facts, or not 'telling the whole story'.

Strangely enough , those people are the chief perpetrators of the very things they accuse others, and are mostly those that would consider themselves to be liberals.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

We are post-truth alternative-facts now. Statistics dont matter to half of the posters on this forum, it's just about what they feel and believe.

But the OP didn't say urban areas, he said cities.

And mist of the world's population do not live in cities.... They may live in urban areas, but not cities."

Yep, got that, and the definition of a city...

Guess it rules Jakarta out, population of 10 million but no Anglican Cathedral.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I think you'll find the vast majority of other people on the planet don't live in cities.

Being serious...

According to the World Bank:

In 1960 34% of the world population lived in urban areas.

In 2016 54% live in urban areas.

And it is estimated that by 2030 that will have risen to 70% and 90% by 2050.

We are post-truth alternative-facts now. Statistics dont matter to half of the posters on this forum, it's just about what they feel and believe.

But the OP didn't say urban areas, he said cities.

And mist of the world's population do not live in cities.... They may live in urban areas, but not cities.

Yep, got that, and the definition of a city...

Guess it rules Jakarta out, population of 10 million but no Anglican Cathedral. "

All cities are urbanisations, not all urbanisations are cities.

Let me make it a bit easier for you....

When I was growing up I lived in a place of about 2,000 population. A shop, a butchers, a hairdressers, a hardware store (remember those?), and 3 pubs (those were the days!). It had roads, electricity, gas, a bus service. Even had a little garage to refuel.

It was (and still is) surrounded by farmland, fields, and agriculture. Most people travelled to work, at least the 8 miles or so to the nearest town.

Hardly a city by any stretch of the imagination. But it was urbanised.

We were part of the (majority of the) world population defined as living in 'urban areas'.

How would you describe that place to people?

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Living in a city is bad but living in an urban area isn't. Got it.

Not being liberal in anyway but being zealously PC is the same as being liberal and therefore being liberal is bad. Got it.

Trying to be the best at anything and therefore elite is also bad. Got it.

That was easy

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

You haven't actually said any thing yet though...

have you?"

Yawn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You haven't actually said any thing yet though...

have you?

Yawn"

Exactly. I'm all for people posting any topic they like but what is the point of this post?

I live in a city

I feel people should be free to do as they like so long as they are not hurting anybody etc

I work hard at my job to be the the best that I can be and am good at it

Am I 'Metropolitan liberal elite'?

errr nope

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Exactly. I'm all for people posting any topic they like but what is the point of this post?

I live in a city

I feel people should be free to do as they like so long as they are not hurting anybody etc

I work hard at my job to be the the best that I can be and am good at it

Am I 'Metropolitan liberal elite'?

errr nope"

You are. You just don't want to be because you see each of those terms as negative. I don't.

Paradox eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly. I'm all for people posting any topic they like but what is the point of this post?

I live in a city

I feel people should be free to do as they like so long as they are not hurting anybody etc

I work hard at my job to be the the best that I can be and am good at it

Am I 'Metropolitan liberal elite'?

errr nope

You are. You just don't want to be because you see each of those terms as negative. I don't.

Paradox eh?

well if I am then we are both among the majority in the country so maybe you could call us populists

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

I live in the countryside mostly nowadays;

I remain, however, unashamedly and proudly metropolitan elite.

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 28/01/17 12:58:37]

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London

"Metropolitan: of, noting, or characteristic of a metropolis or its inhabitants, especially in culture, sophistication, or in accepting and combining a wide variety of people, ideas, etc.

Liberal: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas

Elite: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society:

I am proud to call myself both liberal and metropolitan in all aspects. If the illiberal radicals and looneys think that makes me an elite that's their problem, not mine."

This

The irony is that Trump and May are milking the anti liberal-elite sentiment when Trump's about as elite as they come and May seems to be aspiring to be Thatcher who was the one who embraced neoliberalism in the UK.

It's that neoliberalism which has caused most of the disaffection for people here and now May's twisted that into bashing liberals in general.

Politically astute? Yes. Historically and factually accurate? My arse.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"All cities are urbanisations, not all urbanisations are cities.

Let me make it a bit easier for you....

It was (and still is) surrounded by farmland, fields, and agriculture. Most people travelled to work, at least the 8 miles or so to the nearest town.

Hardly a city by any stretch of the imagination. But it was urbanised.

We were part of the (majority of the) world population defined as living in 'urban areas'.

How would you describe that place to people?

Oh I fully understand...

Now would you like to explain the big difference between the place you grew up and the city of St Davids in wales (population 1797) other than it has an Anglican Cathedral. Maybe a word or 2 about St Asaph (pop 3500), city of London (pop 7000) or well (pop 10,000)...

I was the one who used the urban definition because I knew that it was the only reasonable definition, and you have neatly proven my point.

Maybe you could simplify things a little more and make it easier for me to understand.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

well if I am then we are both among the majority in the country so maybe you could call us populists

In which case, what do you object to in any of those terms that makes it derogatory?

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

I am proud to call myself both liberal and metropolitan in all aspects. If the illiberal radicals and looneys think that makes me an elite that's their problem, not mine.

This

It's that neoliberalism which has caused most of the disaffection for people here and now May's twisted that into bashing liberals in general.

Politically astute? Yes. Historically and factually accurate? My arse. "

Neoliberalism is somewhat of an oxymoron too. The imposition of liberal economics is not being liberal

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

So here's another thought. It's only being elite that seems to be objectionable, do does this mean that once someone reaches the very pinnacle of their chosen field of endeavour they become worry of criticism and derision?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So here's another thought. It's only being elite that seems to be objectionable, do does this mean that once someone reaches the very pinnacle of their chosen field of endeavour they become worry of criticism and derision?

only when they apply the term to themselves

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London

I am proud to call myself both liberal and metropolitan in all aspects. If the illiberal radicals and looneys think that makes me an elite that's their problem, not mine.

This

It's that neoliberalism which has caused most of the disaffection for people here and now May's twisted that into bashing liberals in general.

Politically astute? Yes. Historically and factually accurate? My arse.

Neoliberalism is somewhat of an oxymoron too. The imposition of liberal economics is not being liberal

Quite, and that's why it gets on my tits that social liberals are now getting bashed for problems caused by neoliberalism.

May specifically used the word liberal (without the neo) just the other day.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

only when they apply the term to themselves

However, the term "metropolitan liberal elite" is used as a term of derision, so it must be bad to be all of these things. Right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

only when they apply the term to themselves

However, the term "metropolitan liberal elite" is used as a term of derision, so it must be bad to be all of these things. Right?"

it is a term of derision because usually they refuse to accept the possibility that they can be wrong about anything and think they know what is best for people they know nothing about. So if people are described as that and the cap fits then yes it is a bad thing to be all of those things

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

glad to see the modesty of those who call themselves "elite"

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London

only when they apply the term to themselves

However, the term "metropolitan liberal elite" is used as a term of derision, so it must be bad to be all of these things. Right?

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way as I find that most liberals are actually the exact opposite as what you describe.

As some of the posts above describe it's actually people like Trump and May who act like that and they've also managed to convince you, often via the Daily Mail and such, that it's liberals who are to blame and are the enemy.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

So living in a city (or urban area) is a bad thing? That place where ideas from all over the country and the world come together to generate new ones.

Liberals, the ones who fought to end slavery, educate the poor and provide power to workers are bad?

Being better than everyone else at something, like an Olympic gold medallist is also bad?

Or are these things only bad when a self-appointed "elite" say that they are?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So living in a city (or urban area) is a bad thing? That place where ideas from all over the country and the world come together to generate new ones.

Liberals, the ones who fought to end slavery, educate the poor and provide power to workers are bad?

Being better than everyone else at something, like an Olympic gold medallist is also bad?

Or are these things only bad when a self-appointed "elite" say that they are?

have you done all 3?

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

"glad to see the modesty of those who call themselves "elite" "

Actually, I'm the only person on this thread who has viewed elitism as a positive thing, and I didn't claim that I was. I aspire to becoming elite. Should I not?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I am proud to call myself both liberal and metropolitan in all aspects. If the illiberal radicals and looneys think that makes me an elite that's their problem, not mine.

This

It's that neoliberalism which has caused most of the disaffection for people here and now May's twisted that into bashing liberals in general.

Politically astute? Yes. Historically and factually accurate? My arse.

Neoliberalism is somewhat of an oxymoron too. The imposition of liberal economics is not being liberal

The prefix Neo actually comes from the Agent Greek word for young. The same Agent Greek word is also the root of the English word New.

Neoliberal actually just means new liberal, which really means nothing at all except liberal.

One of the major problems with the word liberal is that most people theses days think it means the same as Progressive and is therefore left of centre but liberal and liberalism is neither left or right wing. Deregulation and free markets are both born from liberalism. The creation of the largest free trading block in the world was liberal and the person who dreamt it up and pushed it through (Margaret Thatcher) was a liberal marketer.

And the greatest British liberal this century (Winston Churchill) is considered the founding father of the whole European Movement.

You can tell a liberal person by what they really believe in. If they generally favour international and pan national organisations, if they are open to genuine discussion that questions and challenges their own beliefs, if they believe that all people are created equal and no one person or nation is inheritably on inalienably better than another then they are liberal.

I'm sure, despite what any say about themselves, we are all able to tell quite easily and quickly from the posts and comments they make on this site alone who is actually liberal and who is in fact illiberal.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

So living in a city (or urban area) is a bad thing? That place where ideas from all over the country and the world come together to generate new ones.

Liberals, the ones who fought to end slavery, educate the poor and provide power to workers are bad?

Being better than everyone else at something, like an Olympic gold medallist is also bad?

Or are these things only bad when a self-appointed "elite" say that they are?

If people like living in a city thats fine for those who have nice houses/appartments etc but many cities have appaling slums and I bet the people living in them dont like it much.

To give and education to those without and to give decent paying jobs is to be wished for for everybody,but so is to allow freedom of speech to those who disagree without classing them thick stupid or racist.

To be the best in your field such as an olympic champion is a true elite unlike many that class themselves as such becuause they have a posh house and high salary

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

So living in a city (or urban area) is a bad thing? That place where ideas from all over the country and the world come together to generate new ones.

Liberals, the ones who fought to end slavery, educate the poor and provide power to workers are bad?

Being better than everyone else at something, like an Olympic gold medallist is also bad?

Or are these things only bad when a self-appointed "elite" say that they are?

have you done all 3?"

Excellent logical point. Brilliant point made about something. Well done

Go on. Explain. I'm a bit dim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So living in a city (or urban area) is a bad thing? That place where ideas from all over the country and the world come together to generate new ones.

Liberals, the ones who fought to end slavery, educate the poor and provide power to workers are bad?

Being better than everyone else at something, like an Olympic gold medallist is also bad?

Or are these things only bad when a self-appointed "elite" say that they are?

have you done all 3?

Excellent logical point. Brilliant point made about something. Well done

Go on. Explain. I'm a bit dim."

we know

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

So living in a city (or urban area) is a bad thing? That place where ideas from all over the country and the world come together to generate new ones.

Liberals, the ones who fought to end slavery, educate the poor and provide power to workers are bad?

Being better than everyone else at something, like an Olympic gold medallist is also bad?

Or are these things only bad when a self-appointed "elite" say that they are?

If people like living in a city thats fine for those who have nice houses/appartments etc but many cities have appaling slums and I bet the people living in them dont like it much.

To be the best in your field such as an olympic champion is a true elite unlike many that class themselves as such becuause they have a posh house and high salary "

Slums are not desirable. I'm not sure who suggested that they were, but what was the actual point I made? Is it a good thing or not?

Does being liberal mean that you think people are stupid or racist?

Who calls themselves elite? I haven't heard anyone describe themselves as such?

Who's actually bringing prejudice to these words?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"glad to see the modesty of those who call themselves "elite"

Actually, I'm the only person on this thread who has viewed elitism as a positive thing, and I didn't claim that I was. I aspire to becoming elite. Should I not?

Elites can be positive. It depends on the context. An elite sportsmen is good; an elite army group is probably good; an elite professional is good; to strive to reach the elite of your chosen occupation is good.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Go on. Explain. I'm a bit dim.

we know"

It also appears that we're seven year olds. Not to worry, I'll assume that you are always going to "win" from now on with your strong, logical arguments.

Lucky you

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Slums are not desirable. I'm not sure who suggested that they were, but what was the actual point I made? Is it a good thing or not?

Does being liberal mean that you think people are stupid or racist?

Who calls themselves elite? I haven't heard anyone describe themselves as such?

Who's actually bringing prejudice to these words?"

Many of these self professed group of liberals class those who wish to have national control over immigration racist.

The OP classed himself as elite

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Slums are not desirable. I'm not sure who suggested that they were, but what was the actual point I made? Is it a good thing or not?

Does being liberal mean that you think people are stupid or racist?

Who calls themselves elite? I haven't heard anyone describe themselves as such?

Who's actually bringing prejudice to these words?

Many of these self professed group of liberals class those who wish to have national control over immigration racist.

The OP classed himself as elite

..and many don't. So what does that tell you?

As I said before, I did not say that I was elite. I aspire to be better than anybody else in my profession. I aspire to be elite. Should I not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Slums are not desirable. I'm not sure who suggested that they were, but what was the actual point I made? Is it a good thing or not?

Does being liberal mean that you think people are stupid or racist?

Who calls themselves elite? I haven't heard anyone describe themselves as such?

Who's actually bringing prejudice to these words?

Many of these self professed group of liberals class those who wish to have national control over immigration racist.

The OP classed himself as elite

..and many don't. So what does that tell you?

As I said before, I did not say that I was elite. I aspire to be better than anybody else in my profession. I aspire to be elite. Should I not?"

Your OP says this is what I am, metropolitan liberal elite

and you repeat it again

Elite.

you forgot to put dim

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Your OP says this is what I am, metropolitan liberal elite

and you repeat it again

Elite.

you forgot to put dim"

I think, perhaps, you missed the entire point of the thread.

I, somewhat ironically, identified myself as a member of the "metropolitan liberal elite" which is an insult despite every individual word being rather positive. I, actually, picked a definition of elite that I felt appropriate despite it being meaningless in the phrase.

You, subsequently, didn't seem to disagree with any of the positive definitions of those words, except then you did.

Never mind

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"All cities are urbanisations, not all urbanisations are cities.

Let me make it a bit easier for you....

It was (and still is) surrounded by farmland, fields, and agriculture. Most people travelled to work, at least the 8 miles or so to the nearest town.

Hardly a city by any stretch of the imagination. But it was urbanised.

We were part of the (majority of the) world population defined as living in 'urban areas'.

How would you describe that place to people?

Oh I fully understand...

I was the one who used the urban definition because I knew that it was the only reasonable definition, and you have neatly proven my point.

Maybe you could simplify things a little more and make it easier for me to understand.

Ok..... Here goes....

The title of city in the UK is really only that....a title. Cities are made by royal decree... Hence those you refer to.

Welwyn Garden City is not, however, a city.

There are now 69 official UK cities (there would be 70 but Rochester, a cathedral city since 1211, became a town in 1998 after it neglected to confirm its status following local government reorganisation).

By the way, there is no such place as the city of London.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Slums are not desirable. I'm not sure who suggested that they were, but what was the actual point I made? Is it a good thing or not?

Does being liberal mean that you think people are stupid or racist?

Who calls themselves elite? I haven't heard anyone describe themselves as such?

Who's actually bringing prejudice to these words?

Many of these self professed group of liberals class those who wish to have national control over immigration racist.

The OP classed himself as elite

..and many don't. So what does that tell you?

As I said before, I did not say that I was elite. I aspire to be better than anybody else in my profession. I aspire to be elite. Should I not?"

Er, you did say that you are elite...

'Metropolitan Liberal Elite' followed by 'that's me'

Nowhere in your OP did you say you aspire to be elite.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"By the way, there is no such place as the city of London."

not going to bother with the rest as you have just said (over 3 posts) that cities are 2 totally different things. But I will pick you up on the 'city of London', not only does it exist but it has its own police force independent of the Metropolitan Police and is arguably the most powerful and least accountable city in the country. In fact it is so powerful the PM and the Chancellor of the Exchequer address it every year.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

By the way, there is no such place as the city of London."

Brilliant!

Of course there is!

" London " consists of two cities;

The City of London

The City of Westminster

The remainder of London consists of Boroughs;

( Westminster is a city and a borough; the City of London is a city in its own right, but is not a borough )

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

By the way, there is no such place as the city of London.

Brilliant!

Of course there is!

" London " consists of two cities;

The City of London

The City of Westminster

The remainder of London consists of Boroughs;

( Westminster is a city and a borough; the City of London is a city in its own right, but is not a borough )

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this.... And to point out that London itself, with all those millions, is not legally a city in the UK.

And that's the difference. People are confusing two things when they say most of the world lives in cities....

The global meaning of a city, and UK term for a city as a legal entity.

Thank you.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this.... And to point out that London itself, with all those millions, is not legally a city in the UK.

And that's the difference. People are confusing two things when they say most of the world lives in cities....

The global meaning of a city, and UK term for a city as a legal entity.

Thank you."

I'm afraid that you are obsessing with an irrelevant detail. That was not the point of the post at all.

The purpose of the post is to draw attention to the fact that words have both literal and abstract meanings. Some of these are positive ones.

When these words are corrupted and denigrated to the point that they become insults, those words are lost to the language.

These words become meaningless and, more importantly, the complex concepts that they represent become more difficult to express because the most succinct definition has been lost.

So, in order to win cheap political points with a meaningless catchphrase both vocabulary and society are diminished.

I'm disappointed that this required an explicit explanation, but perhaps I shouldn't be

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I raised this question last year. When did Liberal become a taboo? And the "Elite" are certainly not liberal.

Anyway the more adjectives you add, the smaller this group gets. This is basic maths, the Venn Diagram. So when people keep using labels remoaners, liberal etc. They're right. But the number of people who fall under that label changes.

I asked. Why are liberals annoying? The answer, they moan a lot. Sure there are Moaning Liberals, it's just a smaller set of people.

So the point. There is no point. There is no cake.

. Going back to baking my cake.

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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago

West London

Too complicated?

Oh well

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