FabSwingers.com forum: Scottish independence

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So after the news with the supreme court, many scots was disapointed, could the scottish parliament still seek independence? Nicola is pushing for a second referendum.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

She can have as many referendums as she likes. If the UK government doesn't agree to them, then they have no basis in law, and only serve as an opinion poll for Scotland.

And I'm not sure on what part of "once in a generation" she is unclear on, the last time the UK government agreed to such a legally binding referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But will it be binding if they say or nay anyhow.... Surely it's going to fuck up the Scottish economy and as such all the SNPs should veto it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But will it be binding if they say or nay anyhow.... Surely it's going to fuck up the Scottish economy and as such all the SNPs should veto it"

As long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under english rule. it is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for Freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But will it be binding if they say or nay anyhow.... Surely it's going to fuck up the Scottish economy and as such all the SNPs should veto it

Have you just watched braveheart on your DVD player for the 33rd time by any chance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She can have as many referendums as she likes. If the UK government doesn't agree to them, then they have no basis in law, and only serve as an opinion poll for Scotland.

And I'm not sure on what part of "once in a generation" she is unclear on, the last time the UK government agreed to such a legally binding referendum."

The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another referendum and and if Westminster tried to block it they would just be playing into snp hands ,i hope we do have one and will be voting yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But will it be binding if they say or nay anyhow.... Surely it's going to fuck up the Scottish economy and as such all the SNPs should veto it

Have you just watched braveheart on your DVD player for the 33rd time by any chance

The Declaration of Arbroath and Scottish independence

The Declaration was written during the long war of independence with England which started with Edward l's attempt to conquer Scotland in 1296. When the deaths of Alexander III and his granddaughter Margaret, Maid of Norway, left Scotland without a monarch, Edward used the invitation to help choose a successor as an excuse to revive English claims of overlordship. When the Scots resisted, he invaded.

Edward refused to allow William Wallace's victory at Stirling Bridge in 1297 to derail his campaign. In 1306 Robert the Bruce seized the throne and began a long struggle to secure his position against internal and external threat. His success at Bannockburn in 1314, when he defeated an English army under Edward II, was a major achievement but the English still did not recognise Scotland's independence or Bruce's position as king

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All I've ever heard all my life of Scottish moaners is how much you'd all vote out if only the nasty English (which subsidise us) would give you the vote and when that happened you voted to fucking stay... Now your just back to fucking moaning about the English again.

Honestly, it's like a broken record

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your like Scousers you just go on and fucking on about how great Liverpool/Scotland is... Oh where you living again, aye I'm in London at the minute but only cos youse av ruined me cuntry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All I've ever heard all my life of Scottish moaners is how much you'd all vote out if only the nasty English (which subsidise us) would give you the vote and when that happened you voted to fucking stay... Now your just back to fucking moaning about the English again.

Honestly, it's like a broken record"

Yo sir by that post have just backed up what i said in one of my earlier post that there is more English people hate Sots than the other way around. You have made the same simple mistake that many Sot's haters have made for years SCOTLAND did not vote to break away from ENGLAND the vote was to ask the electorate if they wanted to break away from the UK which consist of Scotland England N. Ireland and Wales.

I know you like many haters believe the UK only consists of England well it doesn't only in your dreams.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly, it's like a broken record

I know you like many haters believe the UK only consists of England well it doesn't only in your dreams. "
.

You just need to read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote... I think Your minds playing tricks on you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The majority of Scot's do not moan about the English Nicola and her hardcore will and always will. Scotland voted to remain because of the financial implications as they do a lot of business with the EU so leaving will affect our economy but most people accept the Leave vote but as i said Nicola and her crony's will never ever accept it.

If Nicola held another Indy vote tomorrow she would LOOSE by even more than the last time because the general census here in Scotland is seen it done it got the t-shirt.

Sadly many people are like other groups automatically tarring everyone with the same brush.

Nicola talks stuff that could be classed as anti English so everyone in Scotland must think the same WRONG.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Still not read what I wrote then?

"Scottish moaners" clearly aimed at the very people I'm taking about, the ones who've moaned about being under the English, yes the English... Not my words, read the Scottish moaner at the top of the threads post.

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still not read what I wrote then?

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

Nope some of the Scot's not the majority and NO if subsidised by the rest of the UK not ENGLAND though when anyone has mutterer's that old chessnut over many years i always ask them why do you think so many political parties are desperate for Scotland if there such a drain on the UK finances nobody tells me.

Yes the Labour Party USED to get a lot of MP's voted for in Scotland to go to Westminster but has always been a barren land for Tories why do they want to hold on to us?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still not read what I wrote then?

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

Yes the Labour Party USED to get a lot of MP's voted for in Scotland to go to Westminster but has always been a barren land for Tories why do they want to hold on to us? "
where else are we going to park the subs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still not read what I wrote then?

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

Yes the Labour Party USED to get a lot of MP's voted for in Scotland to go to Westminster but has always been a barren land for Tories why do they want to hold on to us? where else are we going to park the subs?

Not for much longer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

After Bannockburn the english still didn't understand that us Scots were not that keen on being subject to rule from london, it took a good few years and giving them another kicking at the battle of old Byland for them to start to get the message. freedom will come, Scotland just has to be patient

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"After Bannockburn the english still didn't understand that us Scots were not that keen on being subject to rule from london, it took a good few years and giving them another kicking at the battle of old Byland for them to start to get the message. freedom will come, Scotland just has to be patient "

Its us that should be having the indy referendum not scotland...

Since James VI I believe. So actually its us that should be trying to get rid of the scots!!!

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

How did Scotland come to be part of the UK, with parliament in London?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your like Scousers you just go on and fucking on about how great Liverpool/Scotland is... Oh where you living again, aye I'm in London at the minute but only cos youse av ruined me cuntry"

only time I am ever in London is when im flying out or in (Heathrow)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your like Scousers you just go on and fucking on about how great Liverpool/Scotland is... Oh where you living again, aye I'm in London at the minute but only cos youse av ruined me cuntry"

Nothing wrong with Scousers, and Liverpool is Fab

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still not read what I wrote then?

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

Red rag to a Bull

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your like Scousers you just go on and fucking on about how great Liverpool/Scotland is... Oh where you living again, aye I'm in London at the minute but only cos youse av ruined me cuntry

only time I am ever in London is when im flying out or in (Heathrow)

"
.

It's a hell hole best avoided if possible

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still not read what I wrote then?

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

Yes the Labour Party USED to get a lot of MP's voted for in Scotland to go to Westminster but has always been a barren land for Tories why do they want to hold on to us? "
.

I didn't say the majority of Scots, I said the moaning Scots, that could be 10 or 100 or 100,000 it's just referring to the ones who have moaned about independence since I was a child!!... Yes your subsidised by the English not the Welsh not the Irish but the English the ones they actually moan about, that doesn't bother me actually, it's part of being in a union... As for Scotland being special, I hate to break this to you but your not, Northern Ireland has been subsidised by the English as well for like forever and last time I looked the UK isn't constantly looking to get rid of Northern Ireland either! Your just no different to any of us Wales or Ireland or England.... The only actual difference is England being the biggest of the union country's has ALWAYS subsidised the littler countries.

You can threaten to leave every time something doesn't go your way but don't be surprised if one day the others don't just say... Tell you what just fucking go

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"where else are we going to park the subs?

Probably somewhere on the Bristol Channel on the South Wales coast because it will give direct and relatively fast access to Atlantic deep water off the continental self.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"where else are we going to park the subs?

Probably somewhere on the Bristol Channel on the South Wales coast because it will give direct and relatively fast access to Atlantic deep water off the continental self.

We can park them at Hinkley Point. Best not go build that tidal barage

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Things might not have been so bad if we had been colonised by a decent country, unfortunately for Scotland we got colonised by england. Time to do what the rest of their empire has done, chose self respect and get rid of them

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

I agree with the earlier post that it's a pity it's not England who r voting on Scotland leaving then we wudnt AV to talk about it ever again they wud b well gone

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Things might not have been so bad if we had been colonised by a decent country, unfortunately for Scotland we got colonised by england. Time to do what the rest of their empire has done, chose self respect and get rid of them "

It was the British Empire my friend, it wasn't just English people or commercial institutions who were part of the colonialism..

to be honest i would not wish to see Scotland or any of the other countries that make up the Union leave but if that is the will of the people etc then so be it..

whether its financially viable and whether an independent Scotland would be blocked from being in the EU are other questions..

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I agree with the earlier post that it's a pity it's not England who r voting on Scotland leaving then we wudnt AV to talk about it ever again they wud b well gone "

Why stop at Scotland?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if the vote had gone the other way and we stayed in the SNP would still have been banging on about independence!! Now just suppose they voted for independence and left!

Just how would they have stayed apart of the EU as an independent country without agreement of the other 27 states ? Also how would they have paid for membership of the EU even if let in?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

I support Brexit and would prefer Scotland to stay in the UK. However, the vote in their area was predominantly to remain, so they should have the option to leave the UK and apply for EU membership.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I support Brexit and would prefer Scotland to stay in the UK. However, the vote in their area was predominantly to remain, so they should have the option to leave the UK and apply for EU membership."

Agreed they as a country should have the choice one way or the other, I think if they did apply that they would be made to adopt the Euro as currency by a the EU which would probably be the kiss of death to thier economy

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Honestly, it's like a broken record"

That's only because you don't hear the silent majority who make up the country.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

Scottish exports to rest of UK = £50bn

Scottish exports to EU = £12bn

So the SNP want to solve the problem of brexit (and those £12bn exports) by removing us from the UK (where we export £50bn)

It's unbelievable that so many don't see through these charlatans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bi Gary..........You are so right charlatans is what they are. It is almost a cult, no sense of reason will make them smell the roses, to some people, they say they would rather be poor and free, than rich and tied to the rest of the UK..Till the day dawned of course and they would throw Nicola and her dimwitted shower of myopic cheerleaders onto a scrapheap of there broken promises

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scotland gave up its right to have a say when it voted NO,

Scotland will do as told by Westminster.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

"Bi Gary..........You are so right charlatans is what they are. It is almost a cult, no sense of reason will make them smell the roses, to some people, they say they would rather be poor and free, than rich and tied to the rest of the UK..Till the day dawned of course and they would throw Nicola and her dimwitted shower of myopic cheerleaders onto a scrapheap of there broken promises

They've made a complete mess of so much that they've done but they get away with it because so many try to avoid or deflect criticism from them. I've presented a few facts and figures on the 'Scottish Independence' thread in this forum and also the 'Indpendence' one in the Scottish forum and whenever anyone provides the fantasy figures I hear thrown about by some nats and I ask for a source they go quiet and I don't hear from them again.

I have sympathy for some people who are misled, and the SNP are masters of that, even trying to mislead people over the figures their own government publishes. I don't have any time at all though for those who deliberately set out to mislead others when they know the information is a complete lie and unfortunately the nats have quite a few people out there doing just that. 2 of their MP's have just been caught flat out lying on national tv in the past few days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

WHAT ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

MP's Lying ! ! ! ! ! !

wtf

MP's tell lies omg

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are wars from 1314 really being brought up?

Let's just do away with referendums and politics and have another war!

Winner takes all

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady

"Are wars from 1314 really being brought up?

Let's just do away with referendums and politics and have another war!

Winner takes all "

It's called a Scotland England Rugby match isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still not read what I wrote then?

"Subsidised by the English" .. Yep I stand by that.

Back to moaning about the "English" yep see top post again.

Nope I'm actually Irish by the way

Yes the Labour Party USED to get a lot of MP's voted for in Scotland to go to Westminster but has always been a barren land for Tories why do they want to hold on to us? "

Because if there's another war we need to use the Scots as Cannon fodder before the English go in and mop up with only minor casulties and take all the honour

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"She can have as many referendums as she likes. If the UK government doesn't agree to them, then they have no basis in law, and only serve as an opinion poll for Scotland.

And I'm not sure on what part of "once in a generation" she is unclear on, the last time the UK government agreed to such a legally binding referendum."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly, it's like a broken record

That's only because you don't hear the silent majority who make up the country."
.

Oh I do, I've got relatives in Scotland, that dig was aimed squarely at the moaners who quite frankly will never be satisfied, there the same ilk as the die hard remainers/brexiters.... Nothing but how they voted will be sought!.

I can say this because I'm a green party voter and member, I've been utterly shafted for 20 years in terms of my personal vote,I accept it, it's part of the deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

to abjectly accept the fact that you will for ever be ruled by another country is tantamount to being a slave and accepting it with no complaint

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its us that should be having the indy referendum not scotland...

Since James VI I believe. So actually its us that should be trying to get rid of the scots!!!

You could politely ask us to go but you could never "make" us leave

only the people of Scotland can decide this, no others have a say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"to abjectly accept the fact that you will for ever be ruled by another country is tantamount to being a slave and accepting it with no complaint "
.

That's why Scotland Ireland Wales and England don't exist as "countries" we unionised them into Britain and the UK, that's why Scotland or England for that matter don't compete in the Olympics, aren't members in the UN and aren't members in the EU because we're NOT "counties" were not sovereign and haven't been for centuries.

Now if your saying your not fairly represented in the UK that's a different argument but one that could be applied to Yorkshire or cornwall or Manchester and that's we've devolved some powers.

But honestly get over Bannockburn it's like well in the past

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every country has its own culture and history, everybody needs to have roots. it's about who you are, what you believe in, and the people around you that support you and share the same beliefs. It's important to have that deep cultural identity. all countries possess this, the uk can lay claim to non .it is neither a country nor united and not even a kingdom,last time I checked the english queen and her grasping brood have been hoovering up folks taxes for some time now

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Much like every other politician, she's a fucking moron.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Much like every other politician, she's a fucking moron.

Tell us what you really think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/01/17 22:37:45]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am very far from supporting the snp.

Only 1.6 million voted to stay in the EU out of 4.2 million voters in Scotland.

A third of the population love the EU so much they never voted.

Please do not confuse Scotland with the snp.

Many of us loath them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"to abjectly accept the fact that you will for ever be ruled by another country is tantamount to being a slave and accepting it with no complaint "

apart from all the mps we elect to Westminster! !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

westminster being in another country , he delegates sent there are a vain attempt to try and lessen the damage that the other country trys to inflict upon Scotland on an almost daily basis . They have no real power , should the other country decide to go and start another illegal war and perpetrate a few more war crimes then there is sod all they could do to stop it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where as having 5 meps gives Scotland a great voice !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

does it ?

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"westminster being in another country , he delegates sent there are a vain attempt to try and lessen the damage that the other country trys to inflict upon Scotland on an almost daily basis . They have no real power , should the other country decide to go and start another illegal war and perpetrate a few more war crimes then there is sod all they could do to stop it"

So, leaving the uk and joining the eu independently will be better? The situation you describe above will be 10x as great.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So, leaving the uk and joining the eu independently will be better? The situation you describe above will be 10x as great."

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Regardless of joining the EU I think that the die has been cast and that sooner rather than later Scotland will break from the union. The question is will the English Tory establishment accept the breakup of the union or will they use force to try and stop it happening.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

"Regardless of joining the EU I think that the die has been cast and that sooner rather than later Scotland will break from the union. The question is will the English Tory establishment accept the breakup of the union or will they use force to try and stop it happening."

No it won't. There's a very good reason why Sturgeon keeps telling us a referendum is 'highly likely' and 'even more likely' ad nauseam without actally calling for one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So, leaving the uk and joining the eu independently will be better? The situation you describe above will be 10x as great."

Exactly

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"She can have as many referendums as she likes. If the UK government doesn't agree to them, then they have no basis in law, and only serve as an opinion poll for Scotland.

And I'm not sure on what part of "once in a generation" she is unclear on, the last time the UK government agreed to such a legally binding referendum.

If Scots vote to dissolve the union, nothing will prevent that happening - anyway, it's only a question of when, not if.

I know that desperate politicians such as the cub reporter are programmed to trot out the "once in a generation" mantra ad nauseam, but were those words enshrined in legislation? Is one parliament allowed to limit the scope of its successor?

Moreover, there is an infinitely more powerful principle to trump, nay demolish, such "generationalist" deniers of democracy..... as expressed by arch tory, empire lover and bellicose Britnat Winston Churchill: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, madam?"

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

If independence is what the Scots choose then so be it, it's their business....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If independence is what the Scots choose then so be it, it's their business...."

I did shout for it, and vote for it

until;

we voted to leave EU

now what do I do,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vote for it again.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"If independence is what the Scots choose then so be it, it's their business....

I did shout for it, and vote for it

until;

we voted to leave EU

now what do I do,

Don't worry there's an SNP U-turn coming. Despite all the crying about being dragged out of Europe it appears they will change policy and won't be looking to join the EU. It's almost like they're making it up on a daily basis...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If independence is what the Scots choose then so be it, it's their business....

I did shout for it, and vote for it

until;

we voted to leave EU

now what do I do,

perhaps, but what about some of their other crazy policies, air rifles, drink drive units, council tax, jeez and to think im a member

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"If independence is what the Scots choose then so be it, it's their business....

I did shout for it, and vote for it

until;

we voted to leave EU

now what do I do,

perhaps, but what about some of their other crazy policies, air rifles, drink drive units, council tax, jeez and to think im a member"

Could probably list quite a few more than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If independence is what the Scots choose then so be it, it's their business....

I did shout for it, and vote for it

until;

we voted to leave EU

now what do I do,

perhaps, but what about some of their other crazy policies, air rifles, drink drive units, council tax, jeez and to think im a member

Could probably list quite a few more than that."

me too, but on this forum, some would be offended

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely if it's about Scotland leaving the U.K. We should all get a vote!?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Surely if it's about Scotland leaving the U.K. We should all get a vote!?"

eh no; Just people living in Scotland, that's all, no one else

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It is not playing politics to get independence, didnt may talk so much about democracy she forgot what it means? lol.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Mrs May the unelected PM that stands on on no manifesto.

She is all happy for the UK to claim independence from the EU but does not want Scotland to be independent.

You have to ask yourself why is Westminster so hell bent on keeping Scotland if England subsides Scotland surely if that were the case cut all ties with Scotland and let Scotland go .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think they should have another referendum to once and for all out it to be done way or the other.

If it still came back as no to independence that would be the end of the SNP argument

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Seems May is employing the 'don't do as I do do as I say' brand of politics where Scotland is concerned...

But then that has always been the position of the authoritarian...

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I think they should have another referendum to once and for all out it to be done way or the other.

If it still came back as no to independence that would be the end of the SNP argument "

It can never be the end of their argument. The SNP only exists to promote Nationalism and an independent Scotland.

Interestingly, Sinn Fein have seemingly made big gains today and that will probably only embolden the Scots.

Mrs May is doing a grand job of breaking up Unions. What a legacy.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"Mrs May the unelected PM that stands on on no manifesto.

She is all happy for the UK to claim independence from the EU but does not want Scotland to be independent.

You have to ask yourself why is Westminster so hell bent on keeping Scotland if England subsides Scotland surely if that were the case cut all ties with Scotland and let Scotland go ."

I must have got mixed up somehow. I thought Scotland had a referendum and voted to stay in the Uk, and the uk had a referendum to leave the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please have a referendum

And please vote to leave

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

I'm throughly confused by the idea of both of the recent referendums. I was born in Scotland, grew up jn Scotland and I'm proud of being British. I'm not proud of coming from a jumped up region with ideas above irs station. Thats simply basedon the triumph of experience over hope.

I can't walk i to a chemist and ask for any random drug i want, no, we have educated people, who know what they are doing to decide who gets drugs-we call them doctors. So why do we allow random plebs to decide the future of the nation?

Just seems nuts to me.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

So you're happy to openly describe the country of your birth, which has given so much to the world, as a jumped up region with ideas above its station?

Shame on you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's just settle this , have a vote for English Independance !

Then you won't need to argue , we will have left you !

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"I think they should have another referendum to once and for all out it to be done way or the other.

If it still came back as no to independence that would be the end of the SNP argument

It can never be the end of their argument. The SNP only exists to promote Nationalism and an independent Scotland.

Interestingly, Sinn Fein have seemingly made big gains today and that will probably only embolden the Scots.

Mrs May is doing a grand job of breaking up Unions. What a legacy."

The Union is the status quo. Its the Nationalist parties that want to break up that status quo, not the Uk Goverment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm throughly confused by the idea of both of the recent referendums. I was born in Scotland, grew up jn Scotland and I'm proud of being British. I'm not proud of coming from a jumped up region with ideas above irs station. Thats simply basedon the triumph of experience over hope.

Just seems nuts to me."

A jumped up region with ideas above its station?

Have you no idea how much Scots have contributed to science, medicine, industry and the general development of the world over the centuries and continue to do so?

Alexander Fleming.

James Logie Baird.

Alexander Graham Bell.

James Watt

David Livingston.

Jim Clark

Alex Ferguson

Adam Smith

Jackie Stewart

Andrew Carnegie

I could go on an on.

Scots have contributed way beyond the size of the nation and continue to do so in so many areas.

You appear to be completely ignorant of Scotlands place in world history.

Shame on you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just seems nuts to me.

A jumped up region with ideas above its station?

Have you no idea how much Scots have contributed to science, medicine, industry and the general development of the world over the centuries and continue to do so?

Alexander Fleming.

James Logie Baird.

Alexander Graham Bell.

James Watt

David Livingston.

Jim Clark

Alex Ferguson

Adam Smith

Jackie Stewart

Andrew Carnegie

I could go on an on.

Scots have contributed way beyond the size of the nation and continue to do so in so many areas.

You appear to be completely ignorant of Scotlands place in world history.

Shame on you.

You can also make a comparable list from any of the home nations

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

Can anyone tell me what scotish independence will achieve? they will still be out of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Independence will achieve so much. We will be able to fly the saltire from every civic building, we will be able to finance our own Army, Navy, Air force. From the taxes we raise and spend them as we decide We will also run the Scottish NHS to a standard un-imagined at the moment. It will be so glorious to be free of the yoke of the English barbarians.....Of course i am taking the piss, we will gain the square root of Hee Haw

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bit of an oxymoron though because the SNP wants independence but wants to be part of the EU so not really independent

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By *candiumWoman
over a year ago

oban

A jumped up region with ideas above its station?

Have you no idea how much Scots have contributed to science, medicine, industry and the general development of the world over the centuries and continue to do so?

Alexander Fleming.

James Logie Baird.

Alexander Graham Bell.

James Watt

David Livingston.

Jim Clark

Alex Ferguson

Adam Smith

Jackie Stewart

Andrew Carnegie

I could go on an on.

Scots have contributed way beyond the size of the nation and continue to do so in so many areas.

You appear to be completely ignorant of Scotlands place in world history.

Shame on you.

I don't rate a nation's quality based on the merits of a few hundred famous people... thats like saying Germany is a 'bad country' because of nazism, or Belgium shouldn't exist cause yoy can't name 10 famous Belgians.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Bit of an oxymoron though because the SNP wants independence but wants to be part of the EU so not really independent

Only a Brexiter can't accept that all European nations remain sovereign nations even when their own Govt stated it so clearly in black and white in the recent white paper.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Can anyone tell me what scotish independence will achieve? they will still be out of the EU."

Remember when you left home because you just needed your independence? It is kind of like that. Cheaper and cozier to stay with Mum and Dad but they don't really treat you as a grown up and the time has gone to row your own boat and live and die by your own decisions.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I think they should have another referendum to once and for all out it to be done way or the other.

If it still came back as no to independence that would be the end of the SNP argument

It can never be the end of their argument. The SNP only exists to promote Nationalism and an independent Scotland.

Interestingly, Sinn Fein have seemingly made big gains today and that will probably only embolden the Scots.

Mrs May is doing a grand job of breaking up Unions. What a legacy.

The Union is the status quo. Its the Nationalist parties that want to break up that status quo, not the Uk Goverment."

If you don't get listened to and you get treated as a naughty child who has to toe the line - how would you react?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can anyone tell me what scotish independence will achieve? they will still be out of the EU.

Just jumped into this discussion.

I feel as though many on the die hard brexit side of the UK need to accept that democracy is democracy and if the Scotts leave then Union or want to, they shouldn't influence them, or complain when people state their opposing views.

We voted to leave the EU, because to many people, the view the poster above just applied to the Scotts in the UK, can be applied to Britain in the EU.

So if the scotts leave the union, let them try to make a success of it for their Independence, and potentially fail. Just like the UK, or the rest of the UK, might do with brexit.

Nations and people take decisions, and they have to accept that it will cause knock on effects, immediate and further down the line. They probably wont agree or like most, that is the way of the world, if you cannot accept that, don't chose to make big decisions.

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Independence will achieve so much. We will be able to fly the saltire from every civic building, we will be able to finance our own Army, Navy, Air force. From the taxes we raise and spend them as we decide We will also run the Scottish NHS to a standard un-imagined at the moment. It will be so glorious to be free of the yoke of the English barbarians.....Of course i am taking the piss, we will gain the square root of Hee Haw"

Submissiveness is allowed in the bedroom, but not desirable in real life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only a fool votes to make themselves and there children poorer in the name of political dogma

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Only a fool votes to make themselves and there children poorer in the name of political dogma

Didn't we just do that in the EU referendum?

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By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

"She can have as many referendums as she likes. If the UK government doesn't agree to them, then they have no basis in law, and only serve as an opinion poll for Scotland.

And I'm not sure on what part of "once in a generation" she is unclear on, the last time the UK government agreed to such a legally binding referendum.

The scottish ppl will decide if theres to be another referendum and and if Westminster tried to block it they would just be playing into snp hands ,i hope we do have one and will be voting yes "

How will us Scots decide if there is to be another referendum? A referendum on having a referendum perhaps?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe when we have a Government in Scotland that is little more than a protest group....Less of the whinging and more action......Then it may actually works......as a poster said has Nicola the balls to call a referendum she will probably lose having not answered any of the doubts from 2014...we shall see

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt very much that Sturgeon will ask for a referendum until she's reasonably sure she can win it.

All she really needs to do is wait until the UK economy hits the floor, unemployment is on the up (once Peugeot have closed Ellesmere Port and Luton, for example) and more and more cuts have to be introduced.

By that time, the atmosphere will be so toxic, she'll have a much better chance.

Another 5 years and we'll be there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another 5 years and only the truly stupid will vote SNP. The level of competence is just not there. How far down the tables does our once proud education system have to fall...oh not counting transport, Health......in fact almost everything devolved is a mess.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Another 5 years and only the truly stupid will vote SNP. The level of competence is just not there. How far down the tables does our once proud education system have to fall...oh not counting transport, Health......in fact almost everything devolved is a mess.

I guess you don't listen to the news very regularly. All these problems you mention are not unique to Scotland. Last week alone, most news headlines were devoted to how close to collapse the NHS in England and Wales is.

You seem content to bash your native land and ignore the fact that many of the problems that affect our society are UK wide but that wouldn't tie in with you Unionist views, would it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You seem content to bash your native land and ignore the fact that many of the problems that affect our society are UK wide but that wouldn't tie in with you Unionist views, would it."
These problems may be spread across the UK but would be much worse if Scotland was independent . How would Scotland propose to fund a better NHS . ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You seem content to bash your native land and ignore the fact that many of the problems that affect our society are UK wide but that wouldn't tie in with you Unionist views, would it. These problems may be spread across the UK but would be much worse if Scotland was independent . How would Scotland propose to fund a better NHS . ? "

I wasn't making a point about how any future services in Scotland would be funded in the event of independence. I was responding to the criticism of the previous posted on the standard of government in Scotland.

The previous poster suggests 'only idiots would vote for the SNP in 5 years' yet support for the SNP remains rock solid in both national and Scottish elections. In addition, the majority of Scottish voters supported the SNP governments stance on Brexit. I guess that makes the majority of Scottish voters 'idiots' in her eyes.Her low opinion of the elected representatives in the Scottish Parliament and her view that Scotland has 'ideas above it's station' is, of course, a point of view to which she is entitled but it saddens me that a native Scot has such a poor opinion of her own country. Her view that the Scottish parliament is full of numpties is similar to my view that Westminster is full of numpties too. The difference is, I'd rather my country be run by numpties in Edinburgh than numpties in London. At least their our numpties.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Tina,

I think you'll see a significant drop in support for the SNP in the next few years when all their promises come to nothing. I know that's par for the course for most political parties but the SNP seem particularly poor in governing from what I've read and concentrate too much on the patently risky route of going independant. Paradoxically it's independence within the E.U. the SNP claim to want (read Yanis Varoufakis' book on how the E.U dealt with Greece). You couldn't make it up!

Alec

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Hello Tina,

Alec"

Funny that in the 10 years they have been in government the SNP support have gone up hell the even done the unthinkable and managed to get over a millon voters in the Scottish elections.

Whats that say about Labour , Tory and Lib Dems in Scotland that they keep getting rejected at the ballot box ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please don't confuse Scotland with the snp.

Not all Scots support the snp for some very good reasons.

I would also like to state there are approximately 4.2 million voters in Scotland and only 1.6 million voted to stay in the EU.That is About 40 % of the electorate in Scotland.

About one third thought the EU

was so great they did not bother voting.

Scotland was hardly ripped out of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please don't confuse Scotland with the snp.

Not all Scots support the snp for some very good reasons.

I would also like to state there are approximately 4.2 million voters in Scotland and only 1.6 million voted to stay in the EU.That is About 40 % of the electorate in Scotland.

About one third thought the EU

was so great they did not bother voting.

Scotland was hardly ripped out of the EU."

So are you suggesting that the percentage of the voting public that didn't bother voting wanted to leave the EU or is it that they didn't have an opinion or just couldn't be bothered?

Either way, I'm sorry to tell you but that's how our voting system works. If you don't have an opinion or can't be arsed, don't complain if things don't go your way. Similarly, you can't assume the opinions of the non-voting public.

In this case, the SNP have significant support amongst the part of the Scottish population that can actually be bothered to vote. Similarly, the SNP's stance on the EU was supported by a significant majority of the voting public. If you or anyone else can't be bothered voting their opinion or choice is of no consequence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please don't confuse Scotland with the snp.

Not all Scots support the snp for some very good reasons.

I would also like to state there are approximately 4.2 million voters in Scotland and only 1.6 million voted to stay in the EU.That is About 40 % of the electorate in Scotland.

About one third thought the EU

was so great they did not bother voting.

Scotland was hardly ripped out of the EU.

So are you suggesting that the percentage of the voting public that didn't bother voting wanted to leave the EU or is it that they didn't have an opinion or just couldn't be bothered?

I voted remain and I vote in all elections.

What I am pointing out is the fact snp keep saying we are being torn out of Europe but a third of the Scottish electorate could not be bothered voting so it is not the great issue the snp think it is or more people would have voted.

The snp did not exactly campaign vigerously to stay in Europe either.

They only spent 90 thousand pounds on campaigning and did not bother up dating their official stay in Europe website.

Apart from a few speeches that did not exactly knock themselves out on the issue.

Maybe that is why 40 % of the leave voters were son supporters.

I always want very high turn out at all votes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Snp supporters

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Please don't confuse Scotland with the snp.

Not all Scots support the snp for some very good reasons.

I would also like to state there are approximately 4.2 million voters in Scotland and only 1.6 million voted to stay in the EU.That is About 40 % of the electorate in Scotland.

About one third thought the EU

was so great they did not bother voting.

Scotland was hardly ripped out of the EU.

So are you suggesting that the percentage of the voting public that didn't bother voting wanted to leave the EU or is it that they didn't have an opinion or just couldn't be bothered?

If you take part in a referendum/vote as part of the UK then you accept the result of that referendum/vote and not later try to claim that you are a seperate part or deserve special measures. That is how the voting system works

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And don't complain if things don't go your way

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

I think people need to start accepting their has never been a union brexit proved it.

Now Scotland will have another independence referendum and it also looks like Northern Ireland will have a go at referendum to rejoin as one united Ireland the break up of the UK is going to happen and you can thank the Tories for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think people need to start accepting their has never been a union brexit proved it.

I will

England a free independent country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Tina,

why do you believe that the majority of Scots who voted wish to remain in the E.U.. I really do not see what benefit there is for Scotland in particular, so what is your view?

Another subject, since Longannet power station was closed Scotland is now a net importer of electricity. Prudent planning?

Alec

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I think people need to start accepting their has never been a union brexit proved it.

I will

England a free independent country

Am all for an independent England too every country should be independent. Its clear Scotland and England are on different paths.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly your not observing what happens when "Populist" parties become governments......The promises fade and it all descends into a Greek tragedy .. I do realise the the SNP has still to be usurped but they do not have the overwhelming support that they claim. They have a piss poor Labour party to thank for there position...But like all cycles the wheels are turning and the SNP no longer have a majority.. The wheels are moving against them... all parties run out of steam in the end and the First minister has the look of someone in a corner...She warned us she was not bluffing... the pity is she was......and against her better instincts has got herself into a corner......Call for a referendum and probably lose or stall and lose her mantle as the Sainted Nicola...

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Sadly your not observing what happens when "Populist" parties become governments......The promises fade and it all descends into a Greek tragedy .. I do realise the the SNP has still to be usurped but they do not have the overwhelming support that they claim. They have a piss poor Labour party to thank for there position...But like all cycles the wheels are turning and the SNP no longer have a majority.. The wheels are moving against them... all parties run out of steam in the end and the First minister has the look of someone in a corner...She warned us she was not bluffing... the pity is she was......and against her better instincts has got herself into a corner......Call for a referendum and probably lose or stall and lose her mantle as the Sainted Nicola...

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

If there is a vote in Holyrood on a 2nd independence referendum and it passes there is the mandate to go for a section 30 order and it would be very unwise for an unelected PM who stands on no manifesto as we can all agree the Tory 2015 manifesto was under David Cameron's leadership not Theresa May's.

It's interesting to hear Ruth Davidson say if there was a 2nd referendum it would lose by a bigger margin yet she is calling for the SNP who were election on their manifesto policy for if Scotland were to find itself being dragged out of the EU then Holyrood should have right to call a 2nd independence referendum that is a mandate and will be the cast iron mandate when there is a vote in Holyrood to call for a 2nd section 30 order.

She is not backed herself in any corner infact the Tories are running scared as they clearly dont know what to do if you listen to Mundell , Davidon and May they all are saying the same thing its not if there should be another independence referendum its should their be one and that is not ruling it out as i said it would be very unwise for an unelected PM to block it.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent . "

Totally agree with everything you say ,i think ppl in england dont realise how strong and getting stronger by the day the snp are ,its only a matter of time till labour and tories are wiped out at local elections then indy2 will be called ,and for those wanting independence for england why dont yous do something about it and campaign for it instead of sitting on your arses

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

I think we should get David Mundell on the telly every time to talk about a 2nd independence referendum its some laugh get the popcorn out

Did anyone see David Mundell interview with Andrew Neil that was a gem lmao

Wee Mundell losing his cool and shouting out mad things lmao

You can clearly see the Tories are shitting themselves over the fact Scotland could have a 2nd independence referendum

The Tories have fucked up big time!!

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent . "

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?"

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation. "

And what is the EU's aim?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?"

The aims of the EU are many and diverse. But I doubt it is the intention of the EU to become one vast country despite what you think. The Germans will still speak German and eat sausages, the Spanish will still speak Spanish and eat olives.

Besides, I'm in Scotland, you're in Crewe. It's my country, not yours. I want Scotland to be independent of the UK and, if practical, a member of the EU. You want something different? You have the choice to vote for it and, I suspect, you probably did in the EU referendum. However, none of that stops me wanting what I believe in.

You may well take the view that the UK voted to leave and that we should all accept the decision and get on with it but that's not the way individual choice works. Just because our views differ, it doesn't mean I have to start believing in or accept what you believe in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I think with every passing day the resentment Scots have for the English and Westminster is growing exponentially and now it is only a matter of time until Scotland secedes from the UK.

To be clear, 2 years ago Westminster (which like it or not is the English parliament) and by extension the English told the Scots that they could not leave the UK and remain in the EU. So the Scots who are pro EU (and voted nearly 2 to 1 to stay in the EU) voted to remain in the UK. Move on 2 years and they find themselves in the position where having done what they were told by the English they had to do to remain in the EU the English are now telling them that the English have decided to leave the EU and they are now leaving EU.

Then to add insult to injury they are being told that they had their chance to leave the UK and did not take it, so 'shut the fuck up!'.

It is farcical!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive"

I fully appreciate that one of the EU's aims is is greater social and political integration but don't think this will have any effect on an individual nations identity or culture. I would rather see Scotland as and independent nation in the EU than part of the UK outside the EU. Had the vote been for remain, I might have been less inclined to support independence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for"

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

Just because my views are different from yours, I don't know what I'm voting for? What give you the right to criticise my choices in that way? Whatever you choose to vote for is your choice and you're perfectly entitled to your choice. I might not agree with you but I don't doubt you've made your own considered decision. I've made my choice, please don't tell me I don't know what I'm voting for.

If anything, your arrogance makes me even more entrenched in my views. The sooner we get away from the English telling us we don't know what we're doing and we haven't thought things through, the better.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

the point was, you can keep your culture and identity yet not be independant. The aim is to govern from Brussels and to make national governments nothing more than the equivalent of local councils. The EU will have to become a federation if its pet project the Euro is to survive for a start. I'm sorry if I appear patronising but once this happens your independance will be gone and you don't seem to appreciate that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

No, I'm not but that's not the point. As another poster has pointed out, two years ago the people of Scotland were told their only hope of remaining in the EU was to vote in favour of the union. Now we're being told we have to leave.

As an independent nation we can, at least attempt to meet the criteria for joining the EU. At present we wouldn't be allowed to. The UK will leave the EU and it's very unlikely it will ever join again. Even if we (the UK) wanted to, I doubt the EU would sanction it.

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation."

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?"

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

We all appreciate that there are all sorts of risk associated with independence should it come to pass and realise there is no automatic route to EU membership. But at least our destiny would be in our hands which it isn't at the moment.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

So the question on the referendum paper will be:-

Do the Scottish people want to leave the UK and "maybe" join the EU?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

So the question on the referendum paper will be:-

Do the Scottish people want to leave the UK and "maybe" join the EU?"

I'm sorry but you're just being really infantile now.

My point is that Scotland has zero chance of being in the EU if it remains part of the UK. If, and I appreciate it's a big if, Scotland chooses independence, there is a possibility of re-joining the EU provided we meet the necessary criteria.

Bearing in mind that the Scottish vote was 2 to 1 for remain (and before anyone jumps in and says, 'Ah but only x% of the Scottish population voted' I'm not interested in that) I think it's reasonable to argue that that portion of the population might be inclined to vote for independence.

In any possible future campaign for independence, I feel fairly confident that the subject of EU membership would play a large part and the details of any proposals would be put to the Scottish public.

Hopefully it would be a bit more realistic than the pack of lies we got from both sides in the EU debate.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

So the question on the referendum paper will be:-

Do the Scottish people want to leave the UK and "maybe" join the EU?

I'm sorry but you're just being really infantile now.

Hopefully it would be a bit more realistic than the pack of lies we got from both sides in the EU debate."

You seem to have quite a questionable debating style.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

[Removed by poster at 09/03/17 13:49:23]

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

Right now as it stands Scotland is not the member state that is the UK.

If Scotland do vote for independence and are in the EU then Scotland will be an independent country within the EU just like all the other 27 independent countries and Scotland will have a veto its not that hard to work out.

I keep hearing this whats the point in Scotland leaving the UK to join the EU in another union thats not independence. Erm yes it is like i said Scotland would be an independent country within the EU with a veto right now as it stands Scotland is in the EU but seen as the UK is member state Scotland does not have a veto its the UK that get to decide on our behalf.

This is about the right to self govern just like any other independent country. Scotland did not vote for the Tories but we have to suffer cuts we never ever voted for.

Like i said every country should be independent hell i would even welcome the North of England joining us and breaking away from London.

Did anyone see the budget and how much of a joke it really was 350million given to Scotland so giving Scotland's taxpayers back our money and near £400 million on Buckingham palace that btw is publicly owned but we never get to see the inside's yeah money well spent eh when in the UK there are families having to go to foodbanks yeah foodbanks in 2017

Like i said the Tories have gone and fucked up big time and now they are paying for it big time.

Did anyone see the fake laugh from Theresa May thats how much those right wing Tory arseholes do not care about the British people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

So the question on the referendum paper will be:-

Do the Scottish people want to leave the UK and "maybe" join the EU?

I'm sorry but you're just being really infantile now.

Hopefully it would be a bit more realistic than the pack of lies we got from both sides in the EU debate.

You seem to have quite a questionable debating style. "

Is that really the best you can do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see the two fat slags of Scottish politics, Kesia Dugdale and Ruth Davidson are back in harness!

Can't be too long until the pair of them are on the same platform telling us how bad independence would be.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

So the question on the referendum paper will be:-

Do the Scottish people want to leave the UK and "maybe" join the EU?

I'm sorry but you're just being really infantile now.

Hopefully it would be a bit more realistic than the pack of lies we got from both sides in the EU debate.

You seem to have quite a questionable debating style.

Is that really the best you can do?"

I'm just trying to get a bit of realism into the debate. Some, seem to think that if Scotland gains independence, then it will automatically default to the EU. Do you think that is the case? Is that the position that the SNP take?

Some sneer at the English. But you take our money and have a devolved parliament. You have more rights and powers that we don't yet all I see in Scotland is hatred and bigotry...Catholic against Protestant, pro EU against anti EU and independent against union. Is that good for Scotland? Do the SNP seek to thrive on these divisions?

And before you say I know England isn't perfect, far from it but I'm curious to know what makes your average Scot tick, what hopes and aspirations they have.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

And what is the EU's aim?

All true. But if you don't believe that the EU's aim is to become a Federation of United States which will take away your independance then you are being naive

independance has nothing to do with identity and culture. I don't even think you know what you're voting for

You see, this is exactly the kind of arrogance I've come to expect from Brexiteers and those opposed to Scottish independence.

And are you absolutely sure that Scotland meets all the criteria for joining the EU as an independent country?

I believe that an independent Scotland would at least have a chance which, to my mind, is better than the current situation.

So is the SNP hoodwinking the Scottish electorate?

Another assumption born of arrogance. I really don't think the Scottish electorate are that stupid.

So the question on the referendum paper will be:-

Do the Scottish people want to leave the UK and "maybe" join the EU?

I'm sorry but you're just being really infantile now.

Hopefully it would be a bit more realistic than the pack of lies we got from both sides in the EU debate.

You seem to have quite a questionable debating style.

Is that really the best you can do?

And before you say I know England isn't perfect, far from it but I'm curious to know what makes your average Scot tick, what hopes and aspirations they have."

Right are you saying England subsides Scotland ? If so than why does Westminster want to keep Scotland so badly ? Why not cut all ties with Scotland if we are leeching off England ?

Westminster said Scotland can have £350 million but what they aint telling you is that they are giving Scotland back our own money that is tax payers money some gift eh when near £400 is going to be spent on Buckingham palace

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"I see the two fat slags of Scottish politics, Kesia Dugdale and Ruth Davidson are back in harness!

Can't be too long until the pair of them are on the same platform telling us how bad independence would be."

Please don't be sexist, especially one day after International Womans day.

Indyref2 shouldn't be allowed. We had a vote already, just because the SNP wants one shouldn't mean they get one. Even if the vote is allowed (or wanted!) then whose to say we won't have another one a few months later! A vote was had, a decision was made so we should just get on with it - maybe in 20 years another one could be considered, but the uncertainty of never being clear will reduce business incentives to invest in Scotland. I didn't want Brexit, but thats what people voted for...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Spending per head is approx £1400 more in Scotland than.in England.

Scotland's share of the national debt is estimated at around £50 billion, do you have that money to pay back if you leave?

Nothing is as simple as "Yes or No, In or Out but I can tell you one thing. There will be no second refetendum until we have left the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Spain will never allow an independant Scotland join the EU

Its that simple

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Spending per head is approx £1400 more in Scotland than.in England.

Scotland's share of the national debt is estimated at around £50 billion, do you have that money to pay back if you leave?

Nothing is as simple as "Yes or No, In or Out but I can tell you one thing. There will be no second refetendum until we have left the EU."

Check international law if Scotland does become independent then an independent Scotland does NOT need to take any share of the UK debt that is the mismanagement of Westminster governments as we ALL know money is NOT devolved to Scotland and Scotland as NO borrowing powers

So in short by law an independent Scotland does Not need to take on any share of the UK debt.

Imagine that eh the EU are saying for the UK to leave they will have to pay and people are saying the UK government should tell them to piss off.

Yet back in 2014 the same UK government were saying if Scotland votes yes we would need to take a share of the debt and like i said above Scotland didnt have to take any share of the UK debt by law

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

For Scotland to gain EU membership it would need to comply with an whole series of conditions known as the acquis.

One of them is chapter 17, at the moment there is no way it could comply.

And when the growth and stability pact element is explained to the people, I doubt very much they would want it.

EU imposed austerity on Scotland would be horrendous.

The current deficit would need to be addressed by massive tax hikes and cuts to services before even being considered.

And we haven't even mentioned currency or a central bank, another can of worms.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Scotland has had borrowing powers since the Scotland act 2012, and has utilised them.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"For Scotland to gain EU membership it would need to comply with an whole series of conditions known as the acquis.

One of them is chapter 17, at the moment there is no way it could comply.

And when the growth and stability pact element is explained to the people, I doubt very much they would want it.

EU imposed austerity on Scotland would be horrendous.

The current deficit would need to be addressed by massive tax hikes and cuts to services before even being considered.

And we haven't even mentioned currency or a central bank, another can of worms."

Oh but thing is Scotland is in the EU right now yes its not member state as thats the UK but Scotland , England , Wales and N.Ireland are all in the EU there fore it would be easy to meet the criteria as we are already in the EU so it would be very easy for an independent Scotland to replace the UK as member state.

The EU seem very welcoming to have an independent Scotland.

I dont get why people that believe in the UK union are not fighting hard to say to the UK government listen to Scotland voice as the SNP did put forward a plan to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK but the UK government and not even trying to listen to that plan and yet they told us Scotland is an equal partner in the UK and we are a family of nations and should lead the UK yet they are not willing to listen and respect our democratic vote to remain in the EU / single market

Its the Tories that are fucking up the UK And they will cause the break up of the UK for not listening and respecting other countries in the UK

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"For Scotland to gain EU membership it would need to comply with an whole series of conditions known as the acquis.

One of them is chapter 17, at the moment there is no way it could comply.

And when the growth and stability pact element is explained to the people, I doubt very much they would want it.

EU imposed austerity on Scotland would be horrendous.

The current deficit would need to be addressed by massive tax hikes and cuts to services before even being considered.

And we haven't even mentioned currency or a central bank, another can of worms.

The EU seem very welcoming to have an independent Scotland.

Its the Tories that are fucking up the UK And they will cause the break up of the UK for not listening and respecting other countries in the UK "

I think that your left wing and nationalist beliefs are clouding the issue here.

I'm sure an independent Scotland, one that's met it's obligations to the rest of the UK on leaving, will be welcomed into the EU sometime, someday. It's just your concept of timescales are miles away from mine.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

And that member state has voted democratically to leave, that includes all its constituent parts.

As it did when it chose to remain in 1975.

Please remember when you voted in the referendum, the question asked was, should the UK remain or leave the European Union?

At no point was England, Gibraltar, Northern Ireland,Scotland or Wales on the ballot paper.

Still, I would like your take on an independent Scotland complying with chapter 17 of the acquisition.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Chapter 17 of the acquis.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

I think we can all agree its upto the UK government to respect Scotland wishes to remain in the EU/ single market and like i said the Scottish government put forward a plan to keep full membership of the single market and stay in the UK and all talk about independence will go away but its clear as hell the UK government is not listening.

Yeah they might be different and miles away from your views but it would be boring if people all thought the same way lol

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"And that member state has voted democratically to leave, that includes all its constituent parts.

As it did when it chose to remain in 1975.

Please remember when you voted in the referendum, the question asked was, should the UK remain or leave the European Union?

At no point was England, Gibraltar, Northern Ireland,Scotland or Wales on the ballot paper.

Still, I would like your take on an independent Scotland complying with chapter 17 of the acquisition."

Please remember the 2014 independence ballot paper did NOT have extra powers on it it was a simple YES or NO yet people seem fine with the three union parties breaking purdah rules when the UK government signed the Edinburgh agreement to say this Scottish independence referendum would be treated fairly no one can surely say breaking purdah rules and and the no camp shitting themselves by offering devo max when it was not on the ballot is treating the referendum as fair.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

The EU seem very welcoming to have an independent Scotland.

Have they?

I,d love to see some evidence of that.

The EU will not interfere with internal constitutional issues of a member state, Catalonia were told that as was the Scottish parliament.

See the letter from Vivian Redding (VP of the EU commission) in that regard.

Not just some MEP with no power or authority

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

You obviously don't understand what purdah means, it restricts governments NOT political parties.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Still avoiding chapter 17 of the acquis?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"You obviously don't understand what purdah means, it restricts governments NOT political parties."

There was no political parties in 2014 it was the yes side and no side

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"yet people seem fine with the three union parties breaking purdah rules"

Your words.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see the two fat slags of Scottish politics, Kesia Dugdale and Ruth Davidson are back in harness!

Can't be too long until the pair of them are on the same platform telling us how bad independence would be.

Please don't be sexist, especially one day after International Womans day.

You appear to forget, as I pointed out earlier, that the Government and it's Labour lackeys told the Scottish population that the only way Scotland could remain in the EU was if it voted for the Union. That, patently, has not happened.

The vast majority of Scottish voters want to remain in the EU.

It's not a case of 'neverendum' until the SNP get the result they want. It's a case of 'a material change in circumstances' that contradict the promises that were made during the first independence referendum.

If and when another referendum is held, I really think any promises made by the Unionist side will be taken with a pinch of salt in light of the fallacies of the last one.

We were blatantly lied to at the last referendum and I know that many regret their decision to vote for the Union.

I note that the latest poll in Scotland shows support at 50/50.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

""yet people seem fine with the three union parties breaking purdah rules"

Your words.

Yes that is because 3parties formed the better together camp but it was a no side and a yes side

The snp did not campagin under the snp name they formed together with other parties to form the yes movement no

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

A yes vote would have meant leaving the EU, it never bothered you then so why the faux outrage now?

What all knew that an EU ref was on the cards in the following GE.

In fact Sturgeon, Ahmed Shiek, Wishart and Yousaf are all on record warning of its looming before the indy referendum.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

So no purdah breaches then.

Okay?

Or are you just another grievance seeker?

Make up shit, throw it and hope it sticks!

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"A yes vote would have meant leaving the EU, it never bothered you then so why the faux outrage now?

What all knew that an EU ref was on the cards in the following GE.

In fact Sturgeon, Ahmed Shiek, Wishart and Yousaf are all on record warning of its looming before the indy referendum. "

Ah i get it this is the Jan 2013 David Cameron quote on the EU referendum the problem with that theory is in 2014 there was no mention of an EU referendum infact the NO camp said vote no and Scotland's place in the EU would be safe in the UK now its not safe in the UK that is a broken promise. Now unless people are saying they can see into the future back in 2014 that they knew who would win the 2015 GE that would be amazing and worrying at the same time as that would mean they knew the Tories would win and didnt warn people.

The fact is polls and people were saying hung parliament no outright winner so there was an EU referendum was not 100% sure to happen.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"So no purdah breaches then.

Okay?

Or are you just another grievance seeker?

Make up shit, throw it and hope it sticks!"

No no purdah rules were broke as it does include in referendums no new ideas/plans within 28 days yet in the last week the no side shat themselves and offered extra powers that they didnt want to give Scotland but were forced into all because they shat themselves.

New poll today at 50/50 looks at good start for a 2nd independence referendum oh and would love it if the no side got David shat my pants Mundell to lead the campaign lmao

Anyway am away to have fun with the wife enjoy your the rest of your day and happy swinging its been good debating with you

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

[Removed by poster at 09/03/17 16:13:32]

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Have fun.

And when you're finished you could show me where exactly purdah is applied to referendum campaigns.

Stop making things up.

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"Have fun.

And when you're finished you could show me where exactly purdah is applied to referendum campaigns.

Stop making things up.

Ok since am nice and in a good wee mood the day i will do just that before i go

Have you heard of the Referendums Act 2000? ''During the purdah period before referendum are prohibited from publishing material relating to the referendum ''

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Spain will never allow an independant Scotland join the EU

Its that simple "

I would have agreed with you 100% if the UK were remaining in the EU. However how that the UK is leaving I suspect that the Basque dynamic will have reversed and that the whole of the EU would not just vote to fast track Scotland joining in its own right but that they would short-circuit much of the bureaucracy to ensure that Scotland technically never leaves the EU if Scotland vote for independence prior to the UKs final departure.

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

I'm afraid discussing finances with indy supporters is futile. You can see this thread as an example as any discussion about the financial benefit Scotland gains from being in the Union is met with 'well why do they want to keep us'. There's no sensible discusion about it as they don't want to believe the reality and have no idea at all about the finances.

I'm happy to discuss this with anyone here and I'll use the SNP's own figures

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation. "

As is the UK?

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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago

The Council of Elrond

"I'm afraid discussing finances with indy supporters is futile. You can see this thread as an example as any discussion about the financial benefit Scotland gains from being in the Union is met with 'well why do they want to keep us'. There's no sensible discusion about it as they don't want to believe the reality and have no idea at all about the finances.

I'm happy to discuss this with anyone here and I'll use the SNP's own figures

That old chestnut again the SNP figures

Like i have said before the GERS figures the SNP have to by LAW yes LAW have to release unless people are saying they want the Scottish government to break the LAW.

The Tories are the party that set up the GERS i wonder why. Now seen as money is not devolved its very clear its under the mis-management of Westminster governments.

You have Labour bankrupting the UK and then you have the Tories not meeting a single target and only adding to the debt and once again if Scotland were to become independent by law they do not have to take any share of the UK debt that would be utter crazy to take on someone else's debt when they were the ones that racked it up that much

the poll today does not look good for the UK staying together and you cant say people that believe in the UK union have not loved quoting the polls as they seem quite happy to tell everyone about polls that say there is no support for independence yet this one says 50/50 and now the u-turn and they dont like this poll

Me i dont really go with polls i would rather let the people decide if there should be a 2nd independence referendum people will still get to vote no if they wish to do so.

I just believe every country should be independent and the people of that independent country can hold the government they elect to accountable as right now Scotland didnt vote the Tories yet have to suffer Tory cuts makes no sence

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

The SNP are two short of that majority in Holyrood. They also have 120,00 members some of them are even English members.

The Tories aint listening thats the problem the SNP put forward a plan of Scotland being able to have full membership of the single market and stay in the UK what did the Tories do not listen.

I respect people that believe in the union but i have to disagree with them as every country should be independent .

So every country should be independent, but you want to stay part of the EU?

Why not? The EU is, after all, a union of independent nation states not, as you appear to think, a single nation.

As is the UK?"

Now just stop being sensible!

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Its quite ironic really...

The remainers in Scotland say that the leavers didn't know what they were voting for in the EU referendum because the question was

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?

And yet they know exactly what they're voting for when the question is

"Should Scotland be an independent country?"

Not sure whether this makes remainers ironic or moronic...

Btw. ...I would vote for Scottish Independence.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I will do a part 2

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By *i_garyMan
over a year ago

glasgow

I'm happy to discuss this with anyone here and I'll use the SNP's own figures

That old chestnut again the SNP figures

Like i have said before the GERS figures the SNP have to by LAW yes LAW have to release unless people are saying they want the Scottish government to break the LAW.

The Tories are the party that set up the GERS i wonder why. Now seen as money is not devolved its very clear its under the mis-management of Westminster governments.

Me i dont really go with polls i would rather let the people decide if there should be a 2nd independence referendum people will still get to vote no if they wish to do so.

Of course the Scottish govt has got to publish the Gers figures, they're Scotland's accounts. Would you prefer they hid them? Also, can you tell me which 'LAW' you are talking about and I'll go check it out anyway. Ta

The GERS figures went through a major review by the SNP and have been altered and refined by them over the years. Let's not forget the SNP's own words in their White Paper, where they quoted Gers figures 15 times:

"GERS is the authoritative publication on Scotland’s public finances"

That is the SNP's own words and that was from their White Paper where they had no need to make such a statement if they didn't believe it. The only people who deny the Gers figures are followers of the Wings cult (the Bath fraudster) and people who don't want to believe the finances.

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