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Free trade & movement

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Lots of people on here often question the linking of free trade and the free movement of workers within the EU. First India told us that we would need to move on movement (forgive the pun) if we wanted a deal with them, now Australia are telling us the same thing. So should we stick to our immigration guns and tell India and Australia to piss off, or is trade more important than immigration?

Australia eyes relaxed UK immigration under trade deal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38704325

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't mind "relaxed" movement but not free in the context of the rules of engagement we currently have!.

Free movement is fine within a nation state, free movement would be fine within a EU federal state.

But its more problematic than it's worth under these rules.

.

I'm currently looking to emigrate in the near future, I'm happy with the rules although I'll agree it would be easier for me without them

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I like some of what you say doors. I disagree with your conclusion about a Federal Europe, I think that that is where our best hope lies, because it certainly does not lie in the USA, Russia or China.

I have real problems with globalisation. I see it for what it really is and it is not a force for good. It is nothing but a race to the bottom where the vast majority of the worlds population will be slaves in all but name and the world will be run for the benefit of a few.

We are rapidly moving into the world of Winston Smith if we have not sleep walked into it already.

And yes, I really do think our future is that bleak.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

A very tough question,seems we need negotiations on these things but I suppose that is why trade deals take so long to negotiate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brits already had special rules regarding Austalian laws. l think we can stay there for a longer time than any other without a Visa.

Free movement with lndia would mean tens of millions of people trying to enter the UK from there, regardless of education and skill.

Free movement with Oz would simply mean it would streamline the current process between two closely related nations.

You are comparing apples and oranges. No sane country wants free movement of people from a 3rd world country. Especially one we give aid to, yet they find the funds to design stealth fighters and have a space programme...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lots of people on here often question the linking of free trade and the free movement of workers within the EU. First India told us that we would need to move on movement (forgive the pun) if we wanted a deal with them, now Australia are telling us the same thing. So should we stick to our immigration guns and tell India and Australia to piss off, or is trade more important than immigration?

Australia eyes relaxed UK immigration under trade deal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38704325"

It shouldn't be a trade off !

If our goods or services are good country's will buy !

If other country's are we will buy !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I like some of what you say doors. I disagree with your conclusion about a Federal Europe, I think that that is where our best hope lies, because it certainly does not lie in the USA, Russia or China.

I"
.

No I think it would be fine under a federal united EU, one currency, one government, one central bank, one fiscal policy, one language.. That's what I would vote for!.

.

We all seem to have the idea about not dividing us but then forget what actually does divide us, culture, language, borders, religion, politics and obviously wealth.... I'll get people replying that we should celebrate diversity by all means do but don't expect those "diversities" to then divide you when push comes to shove

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a no Brainer, Australia are looking for relaxed rules on businesses and business people woking here.

Not a mass exodus of people moving here with no skills, money,and believing our streets are paved with gold.

We can have the same kind of deal with India as well as any other country.

We need immigration to help the country grow, but we need controlled immigration to get the best people in with the skills we need.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why not make our own lazy arses Work !

And Re Train our good people !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not make our own lazy arses Work !

And Re Train our good people !"

Why not indeed, works for me if could be acheived.

Still need free trade and immigration though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about NAFTA? will it stay or will it go, Mr Trump don't like it one bit

sorry, President Trump.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Brits already had special rules regarding Austalian laws. l think we can stay there for a longer time than any other without a Visa.

Free movement with lndia would mean tens of millions of people trying to enter the UK from there, regardless of education and skill.

Free movement with Oz would simply mean it would streamline the current process between two closely related nations.

You are comparing apples and oranges. No sane country wants free movement of people from a 3rd world country. Especially one we give aid to, yet they find the funds to design stealth fighters and have a space programme... "

Not sure what you're implying. The most skilled people I work with are from India. In Australia they are trying to bring in skilled people from all over the world.

I am talking about IT.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not make our own lazy arses Work !

And Re Train our good people !"

In which industries?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ? "

Not good enough. Not the right skills. Not enough experience.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Not good enough. Not the right skills. Not enough experience. "

Depends on the industry.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ? "

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for "

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"Lots of people on here often question the linking of free trade and the free movement of workers within the EU. First India told us that we would need to move on movement (forgive the pun) if we wanted a deal with them, now Australia are telling us the same thing. So should we stick to our immigration guns and tell India and Australia to piss off, or is trade more important than immigration?

Australia eyes relaxed UK immigration under trade deal - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38704325"

Relaxing of immigration rules is not free movement. ....and Australia have not asked for that. They did a similar deal with the USA I believe....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

"

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough. "

We are finding the Engineers we take on straight from University have no ability to think out real day to day problems within the industry, give them a mathematical paper exercise and they are whizz kids, but practical faults are a no no.

Some Australian companies now recognise 10 years workplace experience as a degree

A degree doesn't guarantee a job or salary but it usually guarantee's a beginning of life in dept.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough. "

Engineers all need a degree?

Did you really write that?

This country is lacking in practical skills... Particularly in engineering.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

We are finding the Engineers we take on straight from University have no ability to think out real day to day problems within the industry, give them a mathematical paper exercise and they are whizz kids, but practical faults are a no no.

Some Australian companies now recognise 10 years workplace experience as a degree

A degree doesn't guarantee a job or salary but it usually guarantee's a beginning of life in dept."

University is for the theory. I didn't learn to become a good engineer until after got experience. Maybe the foundations do not need 3 years of study. Junior levels are an investment for companies. You can shape them easily compared to a 10 year experienced engineer who may not be willing to change. I'm talking about IT of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/01/17 08:00:16]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

Engineers all need a degree?

Did you really write that?

This country is lacking in practical skills... Particularly in engineering."

What type of engineering are you referring to? I think there's a misunderstanding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

We are finding the Engineers we take on straight from University have no ability to think out real day to day problems within the industry, give them a mathematical paper exercise and they are whizz kids, but practical faults are a no no.

Some Australian companies now recognise 10 years workplace experience as a degree

A degree doesn't guarantee a job or salary but it usually guarantee's a beginning of life in dept.

University is for the theory. I didn't learn to become a good engineer until after got experience. Maybe the foundations do not need 3 years of study. Junior levels are an investment for companies. You can shape them easily compared to a 10 year experienced engineer who may not be willing to change. I'm talking about IT of course."

And I am talking about Engineering, I am sure it is far easier for a person with a degree to fall into a slot in IT than engineering oil & gas

All work forces are willing for change, that is how industry evolves, you have to move with the times

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

We are finding the Engineers we take on straight from University have no ability to think out real day to day problems within the industry, give them a mathematical paper exercise and they are whizz kids, but practical faults are a no no.

Some Australian companies now recognise 10 years workplace experience as a degree

A degree doesn't guarantee a job or salary but it usually guarantee's a beginning of life in dept.

University is for the theory. I didn't learn to become a good engineer until after got experience. Maybe the foundations do not need 3 years of study. Junior levels are an investment for companies. You can shape them easily compared to a 10 year experienced engineer who may not be willing to change. I'm talking about IT of course.

And I am talking about Engineering, I am sure it is far easier for a person with a degree to fall into a slot in IT than engineering oil & gas

All work forces are willing for change, that is how industry evolves, you have to move with the times"

We're talking about different industries. Not sure how fast things change in the oil and gas industry. But in software there is constant change. Currently on the Web new technologies appear every month. But the foundations never change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These are all fixable,you just need good long term planning and incentives.

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By *FSEstainingCouple
over a year ago

Dartford

This is exactly what we were campaigning for - making it easier for high skilled immigration from outside the EU to occur, whilst stopping FOM of low skilled people from within the EU. Immigration is about quality AND quantity. Better 100 high skilled workers from India than 100 low skilled workers from Italy IMO

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

Engineers all need a degree?

Did you really write that?

This country is lacking in practical skills... Particularly in engineering.

What type of engineering are you referring to? I think there's a misunderstanding. "

Let's see now

Electrical

Electronic

Mechanical

Refrigeration

HVAC

Welding and Fabrication

Structural

Automotive

Etc, etc, etc.

Hands-on engineering trades.

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

Engineers all need a degree?

Did you really write that?

This country is lacking in practical skills... Particularly in engineering.

What type of engineering are you referring to? I think there's a misunderstanding.

Let's see now

Electrical

Electronic

Mechanical

Refrigeration

HVAC

Welding and Fabrication

Structural

Automotive

Etc, etc, etc.

Hands-on engineering trades.

"

The people that design all those things will have a degree.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"So why have we got literally 1'000's of graduates that cannot find work when companies are recruiting from overseas ?

Because mNy if our " graduates " have nonsense degrees s in " ologies " or " meeja studies, and not useful degrees in science, engineering , mathematics.

Graduates from other countries have excellent degrees.

In addition, when recruiting, it's not just the academic qualifications; it's the work ethic demonstrated, the teamwork, the innovative qualities that are looked for

Bit of bullshit really, so degrees are not good enough now, I agree on the lets make em up degree.

But there are to many graduates in all degrees, we need to get the skool leavers away from the uni avenue and put them in to proper construction related apprentiships, not these 2 year bolollox but proper 5 year ones.

Depends on the industry. IT, architecture, engineers, law, medicine all need the right degree. Even English, history or biology degrees do not guarantee a career path unless you become a teacher which is tough.

Engineers all need a degree?

Did you really write that?

This country is lacking in practical skills... Particularly in engineering.

What type of engineering are you referring to? I think there's a misunderstanding.

Let's see now

Electrical

Electronic

Mechanical

Refrigeration

HVAC

Welding and Fabrication

Structural

Automotive

Etc, etc, etc.

Hands-on engineering trades.

The people that design all those things will have a degree."

Have you ever tried recruiting a hands on engineer in any of this trades?

Thought not.

Its easier to recruit degree qualified 'designers' than it is good time served engineers.

The country doesn't need design engineers as much as it needs good time served engineers.

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