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"I see the great hope for all those loons in this country who were hoping Europe would plunge into chaos thanks to the Italians and their Five Star Movement with Beppe Grillo has been dealt a bit of a blow. Apparently Grillo has dumped UKIP and the EFDD and made an alliance with the Pro Europe Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe. Ooops. " There is another anti EU/anti euro movement in Italy called the Northern League. They are doing okay in the Italian polls and will probably gain more support if the 5 star movement takes a pro EU/euro stance from now on. | |||
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"I see the great hope for all those loons in this country who were hoping Europe would plunge into chaos thanks to the Italians and their Five Star Movement with Beppe Grillo has been dealt a bit of a blow. Apparently Grillo has dumped UKIP and the EFDD and made an alliance with the Pro Europe Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe. Ooops. " it's already in chaos... Have you not noticed. | |||
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"I see the great hope for all those loons in this country who were hoping Europe would plunge into chaos thanks to the Italians and their Five Star Movement with Beppe Grillo has been dealt a bit of a blow. Apparently Grillo has dumped UKIP and the EFDD and made an alliance with the Pro Europe Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe. Ooops. it's already in chaos... Have you not noticed. " Just like us then.We are all in it together now up to our necks.  | |||
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"It looks like the Italians, French, Swiss and Austrians are all looking at the hash we are making of it and changing their minds. It was just a whinge, wasn't it? It's time to get real again." Switzerland are not in the EU.  | |||
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"No, but they decided, when it came down to it, that clamping down on free movement at the cost of access to the single market was stupid. We will be the same. May can't make a decision, the three Brexiters are incompetent, in the end what will be presented to Parliament is Hard Brexit which will be rejected or soft brexit which everyone will say we might as well just stay in. You know it deep down, don't you. You've had your fun, time to put the toys back in the pram and leave it to the adults." The only ones throwing toys out of prams and stamping their feet in temper tantrums like toddlers are bitter Remainers who refuse to accept the result of the referendum. You lost, it's over. We are leaving the EU. | |||
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"The only ones throwing toys out of prams and stamping their feet in temper tantrums like toddlers are bitter Remainers who refuse to accept the result of the referendum. You lost, it's over. We are leaving the EU. " Really? I have listened to you come out with the same line for months whenever anyone says 'what is the plan?'. We are whinging remoaner who need to get over it and get on board the brexit train. That is your mantra, that is your default position whenever you have no answer. Now as the High Priest of Brexit, Nige of the forage in his first LBC broadcast this morning said exactly the same as I and others have been saying for a while... We want some idea where we are going, we want some idea of what a post brexit Britain will look like and we want more than 'a red, white and blue brexit' as an answer! Will you put your brain in gear for a little time, have a think and admit that you have been spouting a 'party line' without any thought or consideration to what has been said because you have been totally conditioned by years of propaganda? | |||
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"I see the great hope for all those loons in this country who were hoping Europe would plunge into chaos thanks to the Italians and their Five Star Movement with Beppe Grillo has been dealt a bit of a blow. Apparently Grillo has dumped UKIP and the EFDD and made an alliance with the Pro Europe Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe. Ooops. There is another anti EU/anti euro movement in Italy called the Northern League. They are doing okay in the Italian polls and will probably gain more support if the 5 star movement takes a pro EU/euro stance from now on. " Northern league isn't actually anti EU; it's a result of the ongoing North/ South divide in Italy; ( industrial North vs rural south). Basically they simply disagree with anything the Centrsl ( Rome ) government does, their actual ( supposed) aim is partition from the rest of Italy. The EU is not part of it. | |||
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"The only ones throwing toys out of prams and stamping their feet in temper tantrums like toddlers are bitter Remainers who refuse to accept the result of the referendum. You lost, it's over. We are leaving the EU. Really? I have listened to you come out with the same line for months whenever anyone says 'what is the plan?'. We are whinging remoaner who need to get over it and get on board the brexit train. That is your mantra, that is your default position whenever you have no answer. Now as the High Priest of Brexit, Nige of the forage in his first LBC broadcast this morning said exactly the same as I and others have been saying for a while... We want some idea where we are going, we want some idea of what a post brexit Britain will look like and we want more than 'a red, white and blue brexit' as an answer! Will you put your brain in gear for a little time, have a think and admit that you have been spouting a 'party line' without any thought or consideration to what has been said because you have been totally conditioned by years of propaganda?" The government has a plan for Brexit, as you and others have been told many times. Teresa May is keeping her cards close to her chest and rightly so. The plan has been worked on since the referendum result last summer. Maybe you missed Teresa May's interview on sky news on Sunday? In it Teresa May said she will release details of the plan over the coming weeks and months and as a condition of Article 50 being triggered before March 31st which was voted on in Parliament in December she will have to lay out details of the plan for Parliament before triggering article 50. | |||
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"The government has a plan for Brexit, as you and others have been told many times. Teresa May is keeping her cards close to her chest and rightly so. The plan has been worked on since the referendum result last summer. Maybe you missed Teresa May's interview on sky news on Sunday? In it Teresa May said she will release details of the plan over the coming weeks and months and as a condition of Article 50 being triggered before March 31st which was voted on in Parliament in December she will have to lay out details of the plan for Parliament before triggering article 50. " Did the supreme court hand down its ruling? I must have missed that, or are you suggesting that regardless of law May will act to trigger A50? If that is the case I look forward to her and the whole government being held in contempt and spending the rest of their lives at the pleasure of Her Majesty.  | |||
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"The government has a plan for Brexit, as you and others have been told many times. Teresa May is keeping her cards close to her chest and rightly so. The plan has been worked on since the referendum result last summer. Maybe you missed Teresa May's interview on sky news on Sunday? In it Teresa May said she will release details of the plan over the coming weeks and months and as a condition of Article 50 being triggered before March 31st which was voted on in Parliament in December she will have to lay out details of the plan for Parliament before triggering article 50. Did the supreme court hand down its ruling? I must have missed that, or are you suggesting that regardless of law May will act to trigger A50? If that is the case I look forward to her and the whole government being held in contempt and spending the rest of their lives at the pleasure of Her Majesty. "The supreme court is not making a ruling on the result of the referendum. All the supreme court is doing is deciding by which mechanism article 50 should be triggered. | |||
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"The supreme court is not making a ruling on the result of the referendum. All the supreme court is doing is deciding by which mechanism article 50 should be triggered. " Now go back and read what I said that started this latest bit of 'we're leaving, get over it sniping'. After that explain to me how anyone can say that A50 will be triggered in March when we are waiting for a supreme court ruling that may result in the need for a full act of parliament to be drafted, have 3 reading plus a committee stage prior to getting the Royal Accent and becoming law enabling the triggering of A50? Maybe you would like to explain why so many are so invested in brexit they refuse to admit that this is not going smoothly and that those in charge are looking more and more incompetent. | |||
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-Matt | |||
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"The supreme court is not making a ruling on the result of the referendum. All the supreme court is doing is deciding by which mechanism article 50 should be triggered. Now go back and read what I said that started this latest bit of 'we're leaving, get over it sniping'. After that explain to me how anyone can say that A50 will be triggered in March when we are waiting for a supreme court ruling that may result in the need for a full act of parliament to be drafted, have 3 reading plus a committee stage prior to getting the Royal Accent and becoming law enabling the triggering of A50? Maybe you would like to explain why so many are so invested in brexit they refuse to admit that this is not going smoothly and that those in charge are looking more and more incompetent." First of all it wasn't me who started the sniping about throwing toys out of prams on the thread it was a bitter Remainer so let's get that one straight. 2nd the government has already factored in the timeline of the supreme court ruling into its thinking. If the supreme court rule the government can use royal perogative then no legislation will be needed to trigger article 50. If the supreme court rule a vote in parliament is needed then a vote will be called and parliament will vote for it (in effect they already did this in December anyway). | |||
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"I believe the govt has said they will put through a one line bill to parliament. And I beleive the House of Lords will tell them to fuck off. If May wanted to hit this deadline she should have just gone ahead and acted legally rather than take it to the courts. She lost, she should get over it
-Matt"Then the house of commons will tell the house of Lords to fuck off. The house of commons can over rule the house of Lords. | |||
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"No, but they decided, when it came down to it, that clamping down on free movement at the cost of access to the single market was stupid. We will be the same. May can't make a decision, the three Brexiters are incompetent, in the end what will be presented to Parliament is Hard Brexit which will be rejected or soft brexit which everyone will say we might as well just stay in. You know it deep down, don't you. You've had your fun, time to put the toys back in the pram and leave it to the adults." Better to take the time to think and then speak, rather than speak and spend the time thinking on what you've just said. | |||
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"First of all it wasn't me who started the sniping about throwing toys out of prams on the thread it was a bitter Remainer so let's get that one straight. 2nd the government has already factored in the timeline of the supreme court ruling into its thinking. If the supreme court rule the government can use royal perogative then no legislation will be needed to trigger article 50. If the supreme court rule a vote in parliament is needed then a vote will be called and parliament will vote for it (in effect they already did this in December anyway). " I did not say you were the first to start the spat. However I did reply to your last post in the same way as I am now replying to 2 of your posts here. Firstly I do not know how the supreme court will rule. I suspect they will uphold the high court ruling, but my suspicions (or yours) mean nothing. Secondly if the government have to publish a bill no matter how much they may want to push it through parliament they may be frustrated in both houses. So again Mrs May or anyone else for that matter cannot say that a bill will be presented to parliament have its 3 readings plus committee stage and be on the statute books in 3 months. I am not saying that that will not happen, just that if there is a will in parliament it can be stopped. I will say that there has been a lot of talk from the brexit camp but little from the remain camp (which is the majority in parliament) and I for one would not be surprised to see Mrs May and her brexit bill ambushed and for the woman to find her timetable becoming nothing more than another tory broken promise. "Then the house of commons will tell the house of Lords to fuck off. The house of commons can over rule the house of Lords. " Again, it is not that simple. If the Lords simply reject the bill then the Commons can make it a constitutional issue and push it through. However if The Lords choose a more subtle path they can amend the bill by adding to it. Each amendment would require debating time in the Lords, slowing down the bill. It will then be passed back to the Commons for the amendments to be considered (more time). If the Commons reject the amendments the bill goes back to the Lords where they get to add more amendments if they choose. Then back to the Commons... If (as I think quite likely) there is a guerrilla campaign launched against any single line bill, then the A50 timetable goes out the window and I suspect that if the triggering of A50 is held up by 9 months then it will not be triggered to coincide with a general election and may never be triggered. However I think the damage is done regardless of A50 being triggered or not. We are now sidelined in the EU, and it is unlikely that the trust lost will be regained at any point in the near future. | |||
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"Yes, they are about to confirm Parliament, not Mrs May, decides. She can say what the fuck she wants, its not up to her." I thought that as PM it was up to the PM to implement the will of the people as recorded by the referendum.Everything else is irrelevant , but then I believe in democracy and respecting people's wishes . | |||
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"Yes, they are about to confirm Parliament, not Mrs May, decides. She can say what the fuck she wants, its not up to her. I thought that as PM it was up to the PM to implement the will of the people as recorded by the referendum.Everything else is irrelevant , but then I believe in democracy and respecting people's wishes . " No UK has a parliamentary democracy: Parliament is sovereign, the PM does what parliament tells them. Parliament and its MPs represent the people. If May bypasses parliament, then she destroys UK democracy forever. | |||
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"Yes, they are about to confirm Parliament, not Mrs May, decides. She can say what the fuck she wants, its not up to her. I thought that as PM it was up to the PM to implement the will of the people as recorded by the referendum.Everything else is irrelevant , but then I believe in democracy and respecting people's wishes . No UK has a parliamentary democracy: Parliament is sovereign, the PM does what parliament tells them. Parliament and its MPs represent the people. If May bypasses parliament, then she destroys UK democracy forever. " She has not by-passed Parliament. The house of commons already had a vote on article 50 in December. The commons voted in favour by a good majority. | |||
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"Yes, they are about to confirm Parliament, not Mrs May, decides. She can say what the fuck she wants, its not up to her. I thought that as PM it was up to the PM to implement the will of the people as recorded by the referendum.Everything else is irrelevant , but then I believe in democracy and respecting people's wishes . No UK has a parliamentary democracy: Parliament is sovereign, the PM does what parliament tells them. Parliament and its MPs represent the people. If May bypasses parliament, then she destroys UK democracy forever. She has not by-passed Parliament. The house of commons already had a vote on article 50 in December. The commons voted in favour by a good majority. " No, that was an advisory, non-legally-binding vote. Just like the referendum itself was. It was a purely political move in order to get the MPs to 'reveal their hand' so May could gauge how much support she has in this. The law says (paraphrasing, hopefully accurately) that 'an act of parliament is required in order to remove the rights of citizens that have been given to the citizens by an act of parliament.' In short, removing something requires the same full process as conferring it does in the first place. That is what the high court case confirmed, and what the supreme court is possibly going to also confirm. -Matt | |||
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