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Gender politics

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London

if feminism has indeed been debunked (as the anti-pc brigade claim), what's the new agenda for gender politics. All views welcome .... not going to ask for a reasoned debate. Too much to ask for here. BRB .... driving to our commuter house .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think feminism got debunked, it just ran out of big differences in the sexs to champion..... At that point the "hardcore" moved on!

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London

Interesting. Very easy for some of the posters on this thread to churn out the same old arguments, but throw something really political into the mix .... and they must be scrambling for how they should approach it. Some people think about these things .... come on people, hazard an opinion here ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Take any successful movement... Say brexit?.

The hardcore are never satisfied, they just find something similar to moan about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why do you think feminism would be any different

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Interesting. Very easy for some of the posters on this thread to churn out the same old arguments, but throw something really political into the mix .... and they must be scrambling for how they should approach it. Some people think about these things .... come on people, hazard an opinion here .... "

Bloody hell, you only posted it 20 mins ago.

Anyway you've hardly had a response to this thread and i see no same old arguments on this thread.

It might be a topic people don't give a shit about either.

Who knows

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I can see how women have issues with 'the glass ceiling'. But surely they are about work, family (children), homemaking balance not equality of opportunity.

To my way of thinking men and women are not equal. They are two different halves of a whole and can never be truly equal because of our differences.

Women live longer, generally have healthier lives and are better able to interact in social groups than men (its the testosterone that causes men problems).

Men are physically stronger, more aggressive, athletic and greater risk takers.

We each have been designed by evolution to fulfill different rolls. Industrialisation has rendered much of that evolution redundant and that in turn is making the male of the species redundant in many traditional rolls. I would suggest the real issue is how to stop the male replacing the female as an object of reproduction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can see how women have issues with 'the glass ceiling'. But surely they are about work, family (children), homemaking balance not equality of opportunity.

To my way of thinking men and women are not equal. They are two different halves of a whole and can never be truly equal because of our differences.

Women live longer, generally have healthier lives and are better able to interact in social groups than men (its the testosterone that causes men problems).

Men are physically stronger, more aggressive, athletic and greater risk takers.

We each have been designed by evolution to fulfill different rolls. Industrialisation has rendered much of that evolution redundant and that in turn is making the male of the species redundant in many traditional rolls. I would suggest the real issue is how to stop the male replacing the female as an object of reproduction."

So who's best in your view then if men and women aren't equal ?

Im not sure how you can say men & women are not equal ?

Yes men and women are very much different physically & mentally but that shouldn't have any bearing on being treated differently, one isn't/ shouldn't be inferior to the other ? which is what implies if saying men and women are not equal

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"I can see how women have issues with 'the glass ceiling'. But surely they are about work, family (children), homemaking balance not equality of opportunity.

To my way of thinking men and women are not equal. They are two different halves of a whole and can never be truly equal because of our differences.

Women live longer, generally have healthier lives and are better able to interact in social groups than men (its the testosterone that causes men problems).

Men are physically stronger, more aggressive, athletic and greater risk takers.

We each have been designed by evolution to fulfill different rolls. Industrialisation has rendered much of that evolution redundant and that in turn is making the male of the species redundant in many traditional rolls. I would suggest the real issue is how to stop the male replacing the female as an object of reproduction.

So who's best in your view then if men and women aren't equal ?

Im not sure how you can say men & women are not equal ?

Yes men and women are very much different physically & mentally but that shouldn't have any bearing on being treated differently, one isn't/ shouldn't be inferior to the other ? which is what implies if saying men and women are not equal "

Well it depends what you are really talking about when you mean "equal". I agree men and women are different, but does that mean that they aren't equal? A tough call. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito aren't 'equal' when it comes to size or strength are they? Beyonce and Jay Z are obviously different, but if they did a joint concert they should be equally paid. Gillian Anderson said on the last series of the X-Files, the studio tried to pay her less than her male co star. That's not equal and its not fair.

I think there is still more for feminism to achieve. I was sitting in the Dr's surgery the other day and there was a woman with two young children. Her daughter was playing with a toy syringe and gave her mother an injection. The mother said something along the lines of "thank you nurse, that's much better" and it made me think, if her son had done exactly the same thing, I bet she would have said "thank you Doctor". What does that teach those children about what they can achieve in life?

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

Little, everyday acts like those, tell me there is still a long way to go.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"So who's best in your view then if men and women aren't equal ?

Im not sure how you can say men & women are not equal ?

Yes men and women are very much different physically & mentally but that shouldn't have any bearing on being treated differently, one isn't/ shouldn't be inferior to the other ? which is what implies if saying men and women are not equal "

Best?

Why does one need to be better than the other, they are different.

But if you are asking me which sex is better adapted to the modern world I would have to say in most respects it would be women and I can only see this gender gap increasing as technology advances. Reality is that maleness in the species is in danger of becoming an irrelevance as femaleness becomes even more dominant.

I can see how this may lead to problems due to male insecurity and females in positions of power attempting to out-male males to exert power. That to me is a real shame because (again to my mind) females don't make good males and vice versa.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Well it depends what you are really talking about when you mean "equal". I agree men and women are different, but does that mean that they aren't equal? A tough call. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito aren't 'equal' when it comes to size or strength are they? Beyonce and Jay Z are obviously different, but if they did a joint concert they should be equally paid. Gillian Anderson said on the last series of the X-Files, the studio tried to pay her less than her male co star. That's not equal and its not fair.

I think there is still more for feminism to achieve. I was sitting in the Dr's surgery the other day and there was a woman with two young children. Her daughter was playing with a toy syringe and gave her mother an injection. The mother said something along the lines of "thank you nurse, that's much better" and it made me think, if her son had done exactly the same thing, I bet she would have said "thank you Doctor". What does that teach those children about what they can achieve in life?

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

Little, everyday acts like those, tell me there is still a long way to go."

I understand what you are saying and agree (up to a point). That is why I mentioned equality of opportunity. Unfortunately yet again I failed to expand on a single statement expecting others to pick up on what I had said and extrapolate the inferences inferred. My wrong, sorry.

However you do mention sports and there we will have to diverge I think. Because I see discrimination against males everywhere in physical activities. It's called gender normalisation. What it is is discrimination against males. A perfect example is professional tennis where women are demanding equal prise money for unequal effort. I have no problem with women getting the same money as men provided they compete at the same level that means 5 set matches rather than 3 set matches. Of course women admit they are not physically capable of that but still think they should get half the pie for 3/8 the effort.

Maybe we would do better talking about parity and equity rather than equality.

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London


"Interesting. Very easy for some of the posters on this thread to churn out the same old arguments, but throw something really political into the mix .... and they must be scrambling for how they should approach it. Some people think about these things .... come on people, hazard an opinion here ....

Bloody hell, you only posted it 20 mins ago.

Anyway you've hardly had a response to this thread and i see no same old arguments on this thread.

It might be a topic people don't give a shit about either.

Who knows

"

I wasn't only talking about this thread though. Its good to see some new refs posting here

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London

I don't see gender politics as being just about male and female any longer ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Feminism is to put it frankly a complete waste of time in the 'western world'. It's purpose has mostly been served in the 70's and 80's.

There are always small things of course but there are similar things that affect men too that get too little airtime relatively.

There is a hardcore, very vocal and unfortunately connected element to Feminism but most women don't bother with it and like to keep on living in harmony with their fellow men and women.

Thankfully to most Feminism has become a dirty word associated with raving lunatics... And I can't figure why they don't rebound to something based on equality (but that wouldn't be self serving, anger evoking or career forming)

I'll be attacked for these words, lots of silly abuses of statistics and logic will be rolled out. I'll be told that I'm a pig and a misogynist.

The price of objectivity.

If you want a crusade and social justice I can point you to lots of causes globally that eclipse any plight of the modern western women, but who cares for that.... Right?

Of all the areas where politics are needed, gender isn't one and a battle of the sexes is just an impediment to human progress.

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London

Gender politics still means feminism to men, then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess so...

What should it mean? It also means to me the overintellectualisation of very basic things... With new terms like cis, sapio, so on so forth.

I like the basics of humans and their complex personalities.

Gender politics as an educational subject is just a realm for biased people to mentally masterbate and try to add legitimacy to their outrageous demands while calling anger a science.

I'm all for tolerance, peace and letting people be who they want to be and gender politics is not helpful to this ideal in my view, I see it as more divisive than constructive

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Gender politics still means feminism to men, then?"

I have never really understood 'feminism'. Whenever I have looked at 'feminists' I have been struck with how masculine they attempt to make themselves look.

As for gender politics now covering much more than male female issues that is really disturbing. Because the truth is the 'LGBT community' (whatever that is) should have more senses than to let the sexuality of people that until recently was a target of hate and outlawed be used by some self-serving self promotionists.

It is never a good idea for a minority to demand special treatment, it leads to resentment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

"
.

Infantilism of women into a sex object.... Shit that's this entire website fucked!

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London


"

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

.

Infantilism of women into a sex object.... Shit that's this entire website fucked! "

Men too though? Both play on stereotypes? Can we ever escape them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

.

Infantilism of women into a sex object.... Shit that's this entire website fucked!

Men too though? Both play on stereotypes? Can we ever escape them? "

I'm pretty sure some women look at male footballers legs and think...I wouldn't mind fucking him!.

If a female commentator said I can't wait for the boys to come on the field nobody would bat an eyelid..

I don't many people are that bothered except some gender studies people in university

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Feminism is done when nobody is surprised by a woman working in any role at any level. Not just here but everywhere. That this is expected and normal.

Being angry about some old chap saying something mildly condescending is unhelpful. That isn't feminism. It gives the dinosaurs an opportunity to use the sad, empty "political correctness gone mad" phrase.

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By *awandOrder OP   Couple
over a year ago

SW London


"

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

.

Infantilism of women into a sex object.... Shit that's this entire website fucked!

Men too though? Both play on stereotypes? Can we ever escape them?

I'm pretty sure some women look at male footballers legs and think...I wouldn't mind fucking him!.

If a female commentator said I can't wait for the boys to come on the field nobody would bat an eyelid..

I don't many people are that bothered except some gender studies people in university

"

I have to say in all my years watching match of the day and live matches, I have never looked at a footballer like that ....

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

This weekend I was listening to the radio and they were interviewing a female professional footballer. The presenter kept on referring to "girls football" and the footballer kept on referring to "women's football" infantalising like that is to diminish the importance of something.

.

Infantilism of women into a sex object.... Shit that's this entire website fucked!

Men too though? Both play on stereotypes? Can we ever escape them?

I'm pretty sure some women look at male footballers legs and think...I wouldn't mind fucking him!.

If a female commentator said I can't wait for the boys to come on the field nobody would bat an eyelid..

I don't many people are that bothered except some gender studies people in university

I have to say in all my years watching match of the day and live matches, I have never looked at a footballer like that .... "

And have you ever referred to it as 'boys football'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ClCC

Your contributions here are usually very wise, your question above about boys football, the real question is, "does it really matter?"

Without niceisms about 'wanting my son or daughter to growup in a world where... ' and considering that there are much more important factors for a world to grow up in... peace, stability, climate change, food and water, fairness of economic distribution etc. etc.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"ClCC

Your contributions here are usually very wise, your question above about boys football, the real question is, "does it really matter?"

Without niceisms about 'wanting my son or daughter to growup in a world where... ' and considering that there are much more important factors for a world to grow up in... peace, stability, climate change, food and water, fairness of economic distribution etc. etc. "

Are those things mutually exclusive? Can't we do both?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ideally yes, practically no

The state of modern Feminism is pure distraction

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesnt work, sweden is a blue print of how bad it gets when feminism governs, history will judge them hard.

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