Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out?" cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out? cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods" Ok, so assuming you mean that it will be easier to sell our good due to tariffs and red tape on imports to, say, China being dropped... what is in it for them? Why would they agree to lose their import tariff income and control of incoming goods if not for some gain on their side? What, in your mind, would you see that gain to them being? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out? cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods" So why doesn't Trump see the benefits of selling American goods in their markets? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out? cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods Ok, so assuming you mean that it will be easier to sell our good due to tariffs and red tape on imports to, say, China being dropped... what is in it for them? Why would they agree to lose their import tariff income and control of incoming goods if not for some gain on their side? What, in your mind, would you see that gain to them being? -Matt" because it would make it easier for them to invest in the UK and allow easier access for their banks, hey they might even create jobs here | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out? cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods Ok, so assuming you mean that it will be easier to sell our good due to tariffs and red tape on imports to, say, China being dropped... what is in it for them? Why would they agree to lose their import tariff income and control of incoming goods if not for some gain on their side? What, in your mind, would you see that gain to them being? -Matt because it would make it easier for them to invest in the UK and allow easier access for their banks, hey they might even create jobs here" OK, so how does it make it easier for them to invest in the UK? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out? cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods Ok, so assuming you mean that it will be easier to sell our good due to tariffs and red tape on imports to, say, China being dropped... what is in it for them? Why would they agree to lose their import tariff income and control of incoming goods if not for some gain on their side? What, in your mind, would you see that gain to them being? -Matt because it would make it easier for them to invest in the UK and allow easier access for their banks, hey they might even create jobs here OK, so how does it make it easier for them to invest in the UK? -Matt" I don't know the intracacies but isn't that the whole point of FTA's? To make trade and investment easier? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No ! Not allways !" When is it good and when is it bad? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many say that the rise in popularism around the world is due, at least in part, to people feeling left behind in the globalised world. Trump thinks the answer to this is to withdraw from free trade agreements like NAFTA, TPP, with South Korea etc. Brexiters seem to be taking a different approach and saying that free trade with countries like India and China will be good for the UK. Will this be good for the UK, or destroy our economy as cheap goods flood the market and jobs flow out? cheap goods flood the market? Its been flooded with cheap goods for years. The difference is it will make it easier to sell our goods Ok, so assuming you mean that it will be easier to sell our good due to tariffs and red tape on imports to, say, China being dropped... what is in it for them? Why would they agree to lose their import tariff income and control of incoming goods if not for some gain on their side? What, in your mind, would you see that gain to them being? -Matt because it would make it easier for them to invest in the UK and allow easier access for their banks, hey they might even create jobs here OK, so how does it make it easier for them to invest in the UK? -Matt I don't know the intracacies but isn't that the whole point of FTA's? To make trade and investment easier?" Well, yes, they are. But above you state that our market is already flooded with cheap goods. That implies that there doesn't need to be any incentive for more of those cheap goods to land on our shores. Either they are getting here just fine without any incentives, or we have enough of them and don't need any more. Either way, is seems that if that were the case then a FTA wouldn't benefit the other side. So what are we going to offer them in return from them allowing us to sell our goods easier to them? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well we have had free trade within the eu for forty years and all it has achieved is its taken us from a trade surplus position to a trade deficit situation and a steady flow of jobs out of the country as more and more companies realised they could produce their goods cheaper elsewher ship them here and still make more money cadburys and ford to name just two with tariffs we could use the import duties to pay companies export duties and still have money left it is high time we stopped worrying so much about the rest of the world and worried more about ourselves " Can you name one country in the world were the government collects import tariffs and gives it, as a grant, to private companies to cover their tariffs when exporting? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If the UK were to make free trade agreements with places like China and India with no tariffs if will simply wipe out most small manufacturing businesses here UK companies have to pay minimum wages and look after employees rights which in turn mean they will have to charge higher to make a profit places like China and India ..when you think it's cheaper for Fisher men in Scotland to catch there fish and export to China get it package and then import it back to Scotland than for for them to package it themselves you get the idea of what will happen " Thanks for your post.....  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well we have had free trade within the eu for forty years and all it has achieved is its taken us from a trade surplus position to a trade deficit situation and a steady flow of jobs out of the country as more and more companies realised they could produce their goods cheaper elsewher ship them here and still make more money cadburys and ford to name just two with tariffs we could use the import duties to pay companies export duties and still have money left it is high time we stopped worrying so much about the rest of the world and worried more about ourselves Can you name one country in the world were the government collects import tariffs and gives it, as a grant, to private companies to cover their tariffs when exporting? " Not withstanding the fact that other nations would penalise us for any such actions, the WTO would slaughter us. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well we have had free trade within the eu for forty years and all it has achieved is its taken us from a trade surplus position to a trade deficit situation and a steady flow of jobs out of the country as more and more companies realised they could produce their goods cheaper elsewher ship them here and still make more money cadburys and ford to name just two with tariffs we could use the import duties to pay companies export duties and still have money left it is high time we stopped worrying so much about the rest of the world and worried more about ourselves Can you name one country in the world were the government collects import tariffs and gives it, as a grant, to private companies to cover their tariffs when exporting? " Did not say we should or would just pointing out that tariffs benefit us way more than other countries, ill put it another way nobody buys from uk based totally on price we are one of the most expensive producer of anything they buy because we are either the only place they can get something or they want the best so i say bring tariffs on they hurt us way less than some think | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well we have had free trade within the eu for forty years and all it has achieved is its taken us from a trade surplus position to a trade deficit situation and a steady flow of jobs out of the country as more and more companies realised they could produce their goods cheaper elsewher ship them here and still make more money cadburys and ford to name just two with tariffs we could use the import duties to pay companies export duties and still have money left it is high time we stopped worrying so much about the rest of the world and worried more about ourselves Can you name one country in the world were the government collects import tariffs and gives it, as a grant, to private companies to cover their tariffs when exporting? Did not say we should or would just pointing out that tariffs benefit us way more than other countries, ill put it another way nobody buys from uk based totally on price we are one of the most expensive producer of anything they buy because we are either the only place they can get something or they want the best so i say bring tariffs on they hurt us way less than some think" I've often seen this comment on here and regularly ask the simple question 'what'? As in, what do we make that is either the only place it can be got or that is the best (or at least sufficiently better it's worth paying more for)? The answer I always get is about diggers and Dyson products, most of which, it seems, aren't made here anyway. So, your turn, what products are you thinking of? My view (and no doubt I'll be slammed again for 'wanting to do Britain down'!) is that we do make great stuff. We make some world beating stuff that people really will want to pay more for. However, I don't see that there's enough of it that we can say 'bring on the tariffs'. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well we have had free trade within the eu for forty years and all it has achieved is its taken us from a trade surplus position to a trade deficit situation and a steady flow of jobs out of the country as more and more companies realised they could produce their goods cheaper elsewher ship them here and still make more money cadburys and ford to name just two with tariffs we could use the import duties to pay companies export duties and still have money left it is high time we stopped worrying so much about the rest of the world and worried more about ourselves Can you name one country in the world were the government collects import tariffs and gives it, as a grant, to private companies to cover their tariffs when exporting? Did not say we should or would just pointing out that tariffs benefit us way more than other countries, ill put it another way nobody buys from uk based totally on price we are one of the most expensive producer of anything they buy because we are either the only place they can get something or they want the best so i say bring tariffs on they hurt us way less than some think I've often seen this comment on here and regularly ask the simple question 'what'? As in, what do we make that is either the only place it can be got or that is the best (or at least sufficiently better it's worth paying more for)? The answer I always get is about diggers and Dyson products, most of which, it seems, aren't made here anyway. So, your turn, what products are you thinking of? My view (and no doubt I'll be slammed again for 'wanting to do Britain down'!) is that we do make great stuff. We make some world beating stuff that people really will want to pay more for. However, I don't see that there's enough of it that we can say 'bring on the tariffs'." Well living in derby the first one is rolls royce aero enginesand then theres jcb and jaguar land rover and lots of scientific and precision engineering companies but i ask this if you can most of your shopping from aldi why would you choose to shop at fortnum and masons unless you thought it was worth the extra money | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well we have had free trade within the eu for forty years and all it has achieved is its taken us from a trade surplus position to a trade deficit situation and a steady flow of jobs out of the country as more and more companies realised they could produce their goods cheaper elsewher ship them here and still make more money cadburys and ford to name just two with tariffs we could use the import duties to pay companies export duties and still have money left it is high time we stopped worrying so much about the rest of the world and worried more about ourselves Can you name one country in the world were the government collects import tariffs and gives it, as a grant, to private companies to cover their tariffs when exporting? Did not say we should or would just pointing out that tariffs benefit us way more than other countries, ill put it another way nobody buys from uk based totally on price we are one of the most expensive producer of anything they buy because we are either the only place they can get something or they want the best so i say bring tariffs on they hurt us way less than some think I've often seen this comment on here and regularly ask the simple question 'what'? As in, what do we make that is either the only place it can be got or that is the best (or at least sufficiently better it's worth paying more for)? The answer I always get is about diggers and Dyson products, most of which, it seems, aren't made here anyway. So, your turn, what products are you thinking of? My view (and no doubt I'll be slammed again for 'wanting to do Britain down'!) is that we do make great stuff. We make some world beating stuff that people really will want to pay more for. However, I don't see that there's enough of it that we can say 'bring on the tariffs'. Well living in derby the first one is rolls royce aero enginesand then theres jcb and jaguar land rover and lots of scientific and precision engineering companies but i ask this if you can most of your shopping from aldi why would you choose to shop at fortnum and masons unless you thought it was worth the extra money" You're right about RR engines. And Jaguar Land Rover. Add in Aston Martin too by all means. These are the very things I referred to above, and there simply isn't enough of them. They are, by their nature, low volume products. My point is that you need a lot of goods like this to make tariffs work in our favour. We just don't have enough. Which is one of the reasons we were crazy to vote leave! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm an importer of food stuffs......and it absolutely is the end user who bares the brunt of tariffs. " What foodstuff do you import? If its a good chorizo or manchego who do you supply? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm an importer of food stuffs......and it absolutely is the end user who bares the brunt of tariffs. What foodstuff do you import? If its a good chorizo or manchego who do you supply?" Truly a man of taste! Add in an excellent Serrano ham and we're really talking! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don't import meats or cheeses......" What do you import you could have two new customers  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don't import meats or cheeses...... What do you import you could have two new customers "Not if it's veg though, there are limits! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don't import meats or cheeses......" 
You said you import food. Food is meat and cheese. Everything else is what my food eats. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You're right about RR engines. And Jaguar Land Rover. Add in Aston Martin too by all means. These are the very things I referred to above, and there simply isn't enough of them. They are, by their nature, low volume products. My point is that you need a lot of goods like this to make tariffs work in our favour. We just don't have enough. Which is one of the reasons we were crazy to vote leave! " Well, partially correct. All of these countries are deeply enmeshed in the EU as their "domestic" supply chain. Almost every element on every one of their products is touched by specialist suppliers from outside the UK. The UK also generatwsronly a fraction of the engineering expertise that it needs to remain competitive. Extremely high propositions of the engineering staff are from the EU. At best we will end up as a design and research centre (like Dyson). These will be well paid technical jobs, but skilled jobs in manufacturing and assembly will move. Airbus flies wings(!) from the UK to France for assembly. That won't last. Jaguar Land Rover are building a factory in the Czech Republic and assembling cars in Austria. The only consistent Leave argument on the economy was for unilateral tariff removals which would mean everything in the UK would be cheaper. It appears that nothing would be manufactured here. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"For free trade to work there has to be a level playing field. clearly there is not a level playing field world wide, therefore free trade only works in blocks like the EU that have established an internal level playing field. Fact is that even inside trading blocks some if not all members play fast and loose with the rules in order to gain an advantage. If this is the case in close trading and political alliances it does not bode well for independent countries that are totally dependant on the good will of others. Personally for all his faults I believe The Donald is correct when he says that countries need to use protectionist measures to stop dumping in markets. Of course trade barriers be they quotas or taxes do reduce global trade and increase prices and therefore restrict or contract economic growth. They have also led to economic wars and some of those have turned into real wars. So protectionism is not without it's risks." Absolutely spot on and this is the very reason that no one at all has any faith that PrimeMinister May and her motley crew have any idea what they are doing when they declare that the UK will be the free trade champion of the word. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the vast majority of cases, "free trade" actually means freedom for the huge trans-national corporations." Indeed. And that was the criticism of the TPP. It included amongst its 5,000 pages the 'freedom' for personal data of citizens in one country to be sent to other countries. It included the 'freedom' for companies to sell proprietary products in security-sensitive areas with no ability for inspection of validation. It included the 'freedom' for companies to go after citizens of another country with harsh fines for alleged intellectual property infringements. And all of it negotiated in secret without any public scrutiny. And yet, brexiteers believe that a country might want to tack something like 'freedom of movement' onto a free trade deal is absurd. -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"For free trade to work there has to be a level playing field. clearly there is not a level playing field world wide, therefore free trade only works in blocks like the EU that have established an internal level playing field. " Is it a level playing field. Different members, for instance, pay varying amounts into the EU, so you could say that it is not truly tariff free. Whether free trade agreements elsewhere would be a good thing depends on many factors. For what it is worth (and I don't think it is worth a lot), the majority view of economists does seem to be that free trade deals would be beneficial to our economy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Is it a level playing field. Different members, for instance, pay varying amounts into the EU, so you could say that it is not truly tariff free. Whether free trade agreements elsewhere would be a good thing depends on many factors. For what it is worth (and I don't think it is worth a lot), the majority view of economists does seem to be that free trade deals would be beneficial to our economy." A national government paying for the membership of the EU is not a tariff. A tariff is levied on business activity. From the perspective of a small country whose volume of trade is low the membership fee is relatively high if that is your only measure. For a large country with a large volume of trade the benefit is larger and not borne directly by individual companies. You could argue that this means that the population is subsidising companies trade through general taxation, but if there's more work and more money as a result... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Is it a level playing field. Different members, for instance, pay varying amounts into the EU, so you could say that it is not truly tariff free. Whether free trade agreements elsewhere would be a good thing depends on many factors. For what it is worth (and I don't think it is worth a lot), the majority view of economists does seem to be that free trade deals would be beneficial to our economy. A national government paying for the membership of the EU is not a tariff. A tariff is levied on business activity. From the perspective of a small country whose volume of trade is low the membership fee is relatively high if that is your only measure. For a large country with a large volume of trade the benefit is larger and not borne directly by individual companies. You could argue that this means that the population is subsidising companies trade through general taxation, but if there's more work and more money as a result..." But however you argue it, it is not a level playing field. Some countries pay more in than they get back. Some get back more than they pay in. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As in the UK gets a shitload more out than we pay in, you mean?" As with most statistics, they are all up for grabs and it depends on the factors you take into account. It is often accepted that we are a net contributor but how is that calculated? What are benefits and what are costs? How far do you go in calculating each of those? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As with most statistics, they are all up for grabs and it depends on the factors you take into account. It is often accepted that we are a net contributor but how is that calculated? What are benefits and what are costs? How far do you go in calculating each of those?" This is not a zero sum game. Poorer individuals and nations spend more of their income. This is increased liquidity, so transferring cash from rich to poor means more spending. More investment to feed supply. More tax to transfer. The poorer can buy more and better. They start investing in making things too. Increase in the money supply. The cake gets bigger. That is measured crudely as GDP and the benefit to individuals as GDP per head. The membership fee to the EU is balanced against this, which does not have a number attached to it. You can't directly attribute growth in GDP resulting purely from trade so there is a fixation on the contribution which is easy to bemoan. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
