FabSwingers.com forum: ID needed to vote.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Going to be trialled in some areas in 2018.

You will need to produce ID to show who you are before voting. A bit like you do if you want to book a holiday or rent a car. If you want to buy alcohol (unless you're an old bugger like me).

Now "shock, horror" you will need to show ID to vote. Labour are up in arms about this!

I've always thought it remarkably odd that I simply stroll into my local polling station, give them my name and get given a ballot paper. In 30 years or so I have never once been asked to prove I am who I say. I've gone several times without my polling card...and never had a problem. It is even written on them that they are not needed (they are just a reminder and info for you).

Thoughts on requirement for ID to vote?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

The problem with the changes that have been and are being made is they reduce the number of people able to vote. That cannot be good for representative government.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's P R we really need !

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

If it's simply producing a utility bill as has been suggested by some sources then I don't see a problem with it, if it's a passport as has been suggested in some sources then it's going to be a problem for many....I'll wait and see the official government statement on the matter.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"If it's simply producing a utility bill as has been suggested by some sources then I don't see a problem with it, if it's a passport as has been suggested in some sources then it's going to be a problem for many....I'll wait and see the official government statement on the matter."

Really?

If its simply producing a utility bill...

You see that producing a passport will be a problem for many, but not a utility bill?

What about those who prepay their utility bills? They don't have utility bills. What about people who live in HMO's, hostels or temporary accommodation? What about the homeless? Seems to me that this new regulation is designed to disproportionately disenfranchise the poor, who are most lightly to be Labour voters.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

By the way in most households all utility bills are addressed to one person. Do you see how there may be a potential problem for those in poor households where more than one person has the right to vote?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

Sorry by utility bills I meant anything that proves you are living at a particular address, that will correspond with the electoral roll.....I've had a heavy night out with friends and family and the vino has impacted upon me somewhat, lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The problem with the changes that have been and are being made is they reduce the number of people able to vote. That cannot be good for representative government."

How.....? By stopping those who are not eligible?

If you are entitled to vote....then you have ID. You're argument is spurious nonsense!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some people have been clearly taking the piss so it's about time!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's P R we really need !"

We had a referendum on this during the previous parliament. Overwhelmingly rejected...but not relevant to this particular post.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *or Fox SakeCouple
over a year ago

Thornaby

Really?

If its simply producing a utility bill...

You see that producing a passport will be a problem for many, but not a utility bill?

In the circumstances above you can be pretty sure you will have a letter from the council or the benefits people.

This is simply designed to stop voter fraud.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with the changes that have been and are being made is they reduce the number of people able to vote. That cannot be good for representative government.

How.....? By stopping those who are not eligible?

If you are entitled to vote....then you have ID. You're argument is spurious nonsense!"

Although I think this may be a good idea and certainly worth thinking through, your statement about if you're entitled to vote then you have ID doesn't hold up.

Plenty of 18 year olds would fall into this category, no driving licence, no utility bills, no passport. Plenty more older people too for the same reasons.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"It's P R we really need !

We had a referendum on this during the previous parliament. Overwhelmingly rejected...but not relevant to this particular post."

What was on offer, AV, is more of an ersatz PR - fools' gold, rightly rejected.

There is no great appetite among the establishment political parties in this country for real reform and a fully functioning democracy - which is why they are losing support to the insurgents.

UKIP's representation at Westminster, just one MP but 3.8 million votes, is an affront to the principles of democracy.

Returning to the topic, electoral fraud is a serious issue in areas with significant numbers of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis; not that they are the sole culprits, but they are the worst. With control of a council comes power and patronage, the distribution of grants, the awarding of council contracts, allocation of expenditure.

Turning a blind eye to such malpractice and criminality can never be acceptable.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Some people have been clearly taking the piss so it's about time!"

Exactly.

You need your ID card to vote in Germany and I'm pretty sure the same applies to most (if not all) other EU countries.

I wonder if the naysayers would still be as vociferous if this had come in the form of an EU directive. Hmmmmm.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

It seems preposterous that ID is not checked at the polling station in this day and age. If you don't have a passport, driving licence or utility bill and can't be bothered to make the effort to get some kind of qualifying ID then don't vote.

This is a perfect example of how an identity card would be very useful.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The problem with the changes that have been and are being made is they reduce the number of people able to vote. That cannot be good for representative government.

How.....? By stopping those who are not eligible?

If you are entitled to vote....then you have ID. You're argument is spurious nonsense!

Although I think this may be a good idea and certainly worth thinking through, your statement about if you're entitled to vote then you have ID doesn't hold up.

Plenty of 18 year olds would fall into this category, no driving licence, no utility bills, no passport. Plenty more older people too for the same reasons."

As my grandmother would have said. "You are putting the cart before the horse"

Firstly the 2018 trial is exactly that. A trial.

I'm pretty sure that potential problems like that will be either allowed for in the trial or ironed out before (or even if) it's rolled out nationally.

Also, as my grandmother used to say.

"Don't shout before you've been hurt"

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ? "

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost."

And including being ineligible.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost.

And including being ineligible."

Ineligible for ID?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

My son was at Disneyworld in Florida this summer. He went to buy something at the gift shop... just a souvenir, nothing age related. He went to pay by card but they insisted he showed a driving license. He said he didn't have one. The woman insisted he have a driving license. He again repeated he didn't have one. Eventually he waved his white cane a bit higher and said "In the UK we don't let blind people drive!".

A twee example maybe but the US is a good example of where ID needed for voting is done very badly. They keep changing the rules in some states as to what you can and can't use as ID. Here we don't have a government issued ID such as in Germany or Italy. And I'm not sure that is something that we'd want.

But really I have to ask... is this actually a problem? Ie, is there really an issue with voter fraud in this country or are the govt just looking for an excuse to inconvenience people?

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost.

And including being ineligible.

Ineligible for ID?"

Ineligible to vote.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But really I have to ask... is this actually a problem? Ie, is there really an issue with voter fraud in this country or are the govt just looking for an excuse to inconvenience people?

-Matt"

The judge in the Tower Hamlets voter fraud trial said the voting irregularities in the borough would embarrass a Banana Republic!? And all the result of Blair and his New Labour cronies and their Politically Correct unconditional voter-importing policies.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost.

And including being ineligible.

Ineligible for ID?

Ineligible to vote.

And what has that got to do with whether they have / have not got ID?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"But really I have to ask... is this actually a problem? Ie, is there really an issue with voter fraud in this country or are the govt just looking for an excuse to inconvenience people?

-Matt

But wasn't it New Labour who wanted to introduce ID cards?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But really I have to ask... is this actually a problem? Ie, is there really an issue with voter fraud in this country or are the govt just looking for an excuse to inconvenience people?

-Matt"

I suspect that there is a problem with voter fraud that could be sorted with ID to vote. The question is how big a problem? I think that's the nub of it, are we using a sledgehammer to crack a nut?

If we make it so we need ID we will certainly inconvenience some people, is thst incovenience necessary to reduce the problem of voter fraud (it cannot be eliminated, nothing like this can)?

Then, of course, won't the voter fraud shift to postal ballots? What about proxy ballots?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"But wasn't it New Labour who wanted to introduce ID cards?"

As beneficiaries of electoral fraud (along with lib-dems), new labour's motivation in wanting to introduce ID cards was hardly out of any desire to clean up the voting system.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *anB451Man
over a year ago

Reading

I don't really see the problem with this if it's as being reported. Most people have bank accounts so can get a statement with their name on, or have some form of ID (passport/driving licence).

Voting is probably the most powerfull tool we have as a population so we should all be concerned with finding the right balance. It can't be allowed to be too onerous as to disenfranchised people, but nor should it be so easy as to be open to fraud.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost.

And including being ineligible.

Ineligible for ID?

Ineligible to vote.

And what has that got to do with whether they have / have not got ID?"

If The reason they may be ineligible to vote...is because they shouldn't be here...then they won't have ID.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It dose not cost much to I.D or how about ask the government to issue I.D cards oh wait people some people don't want that

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't really see the problem with this if it's as being reported. Most people have bank accounts so can get a statement with their name on, or have some form of ID (passport/driving licence).

I think you're underestimating the number of people, of various ages, who don't have bank accounts.

We're sitting here with our bank accounts, driving licences, passports, utility bills. I bet most of us have all of those. There'll be very few on here without any of these.

We should not allow this to blind us to people who don't have any of them. It is quite common in older people (although, yes, they will probably have a pension book or similar) where one person looks after all of this leaving the spouse with none.

And if you're an 18 yr old with no wish (or money) to drive or travel, what do you have? Especially if you don't drink or smoke?

To me it boils down to this...

How big is the problem of voter fraud? Will requiring ID reduce it enough and how big of a different problem will that cause?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Why not make the polling card the ID? You take it along with you, and they take it off you when they hand you the ballot paper.

That way everyone who is registered will automatically be given the required 'ID', there is no extra cost to either the individual, or to the state/tax payer.

Also there would be no worries about if your ID was in the correct address, correct name etc.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It dose not cost much to I.D or how about ask the government to issue I.D cards oh wait people some people don't want that "

There are plenty of people who can't afford the cost of ID that you are making sound trivial, are you suggesting that they shouldn't be able to vote?

The issue of ID cards should, probably, be another thread!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman
over a year ago

stourbridge area

Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ... "

This and CLCC's point does make as much sense as, say, a utility bill!

To improve on it you'd need to go photo ID.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Birth Certificate? social security card? NHS card? along with voting card? How expensive is that?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ... "

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"What is the problem with people having ID ? If you want to be served in a pub you have to have ID buying tobacco or cigarettes you need ID so why not to vote ?

I don't need ID to be served in a pub, I've never been IDd for that, or age related products in supermarkets, etc. Not once.

The problem is that there are lots of people that don't have ID. So to make them go out and get some so that they can vote, well many simply won't, or can't, and then will be disenfanchised.

Why do I say can't? A range of reasons starting with cost.

And including being ineligible.

Ineligible for ID?

Ineligible to vote.

And what has that got to do with whether they have / have not got ID?"

Er. I thought that was what the thread was all about.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Birth Certificate? social security card? NHS card? along with voting card? How expensive is that?"

Well, I got a genuine copy from the register office people of my mum's birth certificate with no need for any input from her at all, so probably that wouldn't be much use since it appears that anyone can get a copy of anyone else's birth certificate! Just fill is an online form and pay for it then wait for it to arrive.

What's a social security card?

Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?"

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them? "

Abolish the Labour party?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?"

Because it doesn't have sex and DOB on it? Well neither does my electricity bill.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Birth Certificate? social security card? NHS card? along with voting card? How expensive is that?

What's a social security card?

Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know."

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them?

Abolish the Labour party?

Naughty!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them?

Abolish the Labour party?

fuck it, just allow white middle aged men to vote

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?"

I've checked, they don't get issued.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued."

Hey, let's use our EHICs, they're free!

Oh, wait, hang on...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued."

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc"

From NHS website:

Note: medical cards are no longer issued in England. If you still have one it may have an old-style NHS Number made-up of both letters and numbers. However, in recent years this has been replaced for all patients with an NHS Number made containing only numbers (as shown in the example above).

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc"

And from same page...

Your NHS Number is unique to you. The number will appear on most official documents and letters you receive from the NHS, including prescriptions, test results or hospital appointment letters. You don't need to know your NHS Number to receive care, and you should not be denied care on the basis you do not know, or do not have, an NHS Number.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc"

Are you thinking about pre-payment certificates? They cost money, I pay for mine because I am on regular medication and it works out cheaper. My wife isn’t and so just pays for prescriptions when she needs one, are you suggesting that she shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc"

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!"

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

no, plastic NHS cards

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them? "

The suggestion is that postal voters will have to reapply every 3 years.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them?

The suggestion is that postal voters will have to reapply every 3 years."

But if people are saying that one person in the house will steal all the polling cards, what's to stop them from stealing the postal votes?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one"

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

no, plastic NHS cards"

That you have been told dont exist anymore? You think these cards magically update themselves to tell the person looking at them if the owner is currently claiming a benefit or has a medical condition that means they don't have to pay for prescriptions? Sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them?

The suggestion is that postal voters will have to reapply every 3 years.

But if people are saying that one person in the house will steal all the polling cards, what's to stop them from stealing the postal votes? "

Or simply, with no fraud or theft invloved since isn't part of this issue about people being told to give up their votes, getting a proxy vote for the people invloved and then turning up, getting half a dozen ballot papers and voting how they want?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions."

Do you actually need it to claim them?

When my kids were getting free ones all I did was sign the prescription at the pharmacy, no card needed.

Have you got the card there? What's it called exactly?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions."

Does every registered voter?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why isnt your polling card enough of an id ... after all youve had to register to get it ....

Another cock up and waste of tax payers money ...

because one person in a household could use all the cards?

True.

But what about postal votes and proxy votes?

How do you stop the fraud in them?

The suggestion is that postal voters will have to reapply every 3 years."

I think you apply every year now don't you, on that electoral register form you get from the council annually? And then you can do so when the poll is announced, up to about a week before the poll or some such. Similarly for proxy votes.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Do you actually need it to claim them?

When my kids were getting free ones all I did was sign the prescription at the pharmacy, no card needed.

Have you got the card there? What's it called exactly? "

Yes, I do need it. Without it, I would have to pay for prescriptions.

It is called the NHS Medical Exemption Certificate.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Do you actually need it to claim them?

When my kids were getting free ones all I did was sign the prescription at the pharmacy, no card needed.

Have you got the card there? What's it called exactly?

Yes, I do need it. Without it, I would have to pay for prescriptions.

It is called the NHS Medical Exemption Certificate."

Ah, so you hand that in each time? Do you have to or are you just being helpful?

Thanks for info btw!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter? "

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme"

But that's what I'm getting at mate, this card you refer to doesn't appear to exist!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Do you actually need it to claim them?

When my kids were getting free ones all I did was sign the prescription at the pharmacy, no card needed.

Have you got the card there? What's it called exactly?

Yes, I do need it. Without it, I would have to pay for prescriptions.

It is called the NHS Medical Exemption Certificate.

Ah, so you hand that in each time? Do you have to or are you just being helpful?

Thanks for info btw!

As I said, if I cannot show my card to the pharmacy, I have to pay.

So, no, I am not just being helpful.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

But that's what I'm getting at mate, this card you refer to doesn't appear to exist!"

I'm not being contrary here, I'd love to know about this but I've been looking to find it to no avail. Google may be my fiend but it ain't helping on this one!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Do you actually need it to claim them?

When my kids were getting free ones all I did was sign the prescription at the pharmacy, no card needed.

Have you got the card there? What's it called exactly?

Yes, I do need it. Without it, I would have to pay for prescriptions.

It is called the NHS Medical Exemption Certificate.

Ah, so you hand that in each time? Do you have to or are you just being helpful?

Thanks for info btw!

As I said, if I cannot show my card to the pharmacy, I have to pay.

So, no, I am not just being helpful."

Go it, and you are being most helpful here, thanks!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/12/16 12:20:09]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

But that's what I'm getting at mate, this card you refer to doesn't appear to exist!

check again, it does"

Give us a clue then, where have you found it?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme"

You don't appear to get one if you're on Universal Credit...

You can claim help with health costs in the same way as those getting other qualifying benefits, such as income-based Jobseeker's Allowance. You will need to sign the NHS form to say you do not have to pay. This could be a prescription form given to you by your doctor, or a dental treatment form given to you by your dentist's receptionist.

If you claim exemption, the healthcare professional will ask to see your Universal Credit award notice to support your claim.

This last sentence seems to imply no card.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

But that's what I'm getting at mate, this card you refer to doesn't appear to exist!

check again, it does

Give us a clue then, where have you found it?"

try nhsbsa.nhs or just type tax credit exemption

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

You don't appear to get one if you're on Universal Credit...

If you claim exemption, the healthcare professional will ask to see your Universal Credit award notice to support your claim.

This last sentence seems to imply no card."

it is a card

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/12/16 12:28:12]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Do you actually need it to claim them?

When my kids were getting free ones all I did was sign the prescription at the pharmacy, no card needed.

Have you got the card there? What's it called exactly?

Yes, I do need it. Without it, I would have to pay for prescriptions.

It is called the NHS Medical Exemption Certificate.

Ah, so you hand that in each time? Do you have to or are you just being helpful?

Thanks for info btw!

As I said, if I cannot show my card to the pharmacy, I have to pay.

So, no, I am not just being helpful."

OK, just catching up on this thread... so where are we up to?

Are we suggesting that we give every eligible voter an NHS Medical Exemption Certificate?!

One of the big issues with *any* ID system, is that you then need to enforce it and be able to tell what is and what isn't a valid ID. If we are making this as widely usable as possible with existing IDs then that means that people checking at the polling booths need to be able to tell a real from a forged certificate (assuming this is an issue of a magnitude enough to warrant an ID system anyway).

I was born in Singapore, my birth certificate was issued by the British consulate over there. Do you know what it looks like? Is it genuine?

Basically I think the whole idea is a folly. Unless we issue a specific state-mandated ID card to every citizen (and deal with all the cost and hassle that will involve) then I think this is a futile exercise.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

You don't appear to get one if you're on Universal Credit...

If you claim exemption, the healthcare professional will ask to see your Universal Credit award notice to support your claim.

This last sentence seems to imply no card."

But LIS does have some form of certificate, who knows if it's a card...

Depending on your circumstances, you can receive "full help" (HC2 certificate) or "partial help" (HC3 certificate). You will qualify for full help if your income is less than or equal to your requirements, or is greater than your requirements by no more than half the current English prescription charge. If your income exceeds this limit, you may be entitled to partial help. Your certificate will show how much you have to pay towards your health costs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One of the big issues with *any* ID system, is that you then need to enforce it and be able to tell what is and what isn't a valid ID. If we are making this as widely usable as possible with existing IDs then that means that people checking at the polling booths need to be able to tell a real from a forged certificate (assuming this is an issue of a magnitude enough to warrant an ID system anyway)."

In EE 'Doc' Smith's classic "Lensman" series this was the whole point of the plot, all IDs can be forged, the more important thing that you need ID for, the greater the imoetus to forge it.

It is true today.

Look at what happened when they made it so that to get a new vehicle registration plate you had to bring the registration document: the criminal fraternity simply broke into a Halfords or some such and nicked the equipment to make their own. And the tens of thousands of blank registration documents vanished so they had to change the style.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

You don't appear to get one if you're on Universal Credit...

If you claim exemption, the healthcare professional will ask to see your Universal Credit award notice to support your claim.

This last sentence seems to imply no card."

Various cards are available.

Mine I have explained. It was awarded to me as I have a long term condition (diabetes).

People on a low income can apply for an HC card.

Those in receipt of various benefits do not need a card but will be asked by the pharmacy to provide proof.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme"

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it."

It is all about balance, isn't it?

The trial is about trying to cut down on electoral fraud. Remember that London borough?

I don't think that most people would have a problem producing some form of ID.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it."

so who else wouldn't have some form of ID? something maybe with a NI number on at the address your voting card was sent to?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it.

so who else wouldn't have some form of ID? something maybe with a NI number on at the address your voting card was sent to?"

OK, how about an 18 year old?

Registered with GP so does exist but no need for medical services for years. Not wanting to drive. Doesn't drink or smoke so doesn't need ID for that.

The point is, yes, he or she could get ID, but we're making it harder for them to vote.

So, we could argue that fair enough, maybe it shouldn't be easy.

But, I postulate that making ID compulsory will reduce voting so it has to be balanced against the level of voter fraud that is believed to exist.

Also, I don't really see that any ID other than photo ID has any point to it here. Frankly, if I couldn't produce utility bills, letters from doctors, etc, that would pass muster in this context then I'd need to hang up my computer in shame! I mean, come on, it's not that hard is it?

And there's no such thing as free photo ID is there?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i think if this has been a country where showing ID is natural i would not have a problem with it....

however in countries where they don't have ID and you need ID to vote, they find that the poorest that don't have the ID... be that passport, or driving license ect.......

maybe this would be an interesting start of a discussion as to whether we should have a national id card?

but then where would that then leave postal voting?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think if this has been a country where showing ID is natural i would not have a problem with it....

however in countries where they don't have ID and you need ID to vote, they find that the poorest that don't have the ID... be that passport, or driving license ect.......

maybe this would be an interesting start of a discussion as to whether we should have a national id card?

but then where would that then leave postal voting?"

Or proxy voting?

Have people here forgotten about that?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it.

so who else wouldn't have some form of ID? something maybe with a NI number on at the address your voting card was sent to?

OK, how about an 18 year old?

Registered with GP so does exist but no need for medical services for years. Not wanting to drive. Doesn't drink or smoke so doesn't need ID for that.

The point is, yes, he or she could get ID, but we're making it harder for them to vote.

So, we could argue that fair enough, maybe it shouldn't be easy.

But, I postulate that making ID compulsory will reduce voting so it has to be balanced against the level of voter fraud that is believed to exist.

And there's no such thing as free photo ID is there?"

Some people may slip through the net but I would think that realistically that would be a very small number.

An 18 year old living at home will either be working (in which case most will have some evidence of their identity, unless employed by Dellboy) or will be in receipt of a benefit.

On the whole, I think it is a good idea, but the point of a trial is to try.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it.

so who else wouldn't have some form of ID? something maybe with a NI number on at the address your voting card was sent to?

OK, how about an 18 year old?

Registered with GP so does exist but no need for medical services for years. Not wanting to drive. Doesn't drink or smoke so doesn't need ID for that.

The point is, yes, he or she could get ID, but we're making it harder for them to vote.

So, we could argue that fair enough, maybe it shouldn't be easy.

But, I postulate that making ID compulsory will reduce voting so it has to be balanced against the level of voter fraud that is believed to exist.

And there's no such thing as free photo ID is there?"

Well said.

Generally with security in general (physical, electronic, all the same) you have to weight up the cost vs the benefit. NOTHING is 100% secure. It is just a matter of time and cost. E.g. give me enough time and money and I will steal you the crown jewels. And often the act of attempting to secure something just moves the vulnerable area to somewhere else. E.g. it doesn't matter if you have a 1,000 character password to your phone if I can just hit you with a rubber hose until you give it to me. Or steal the backups from somewhere else easier to access.

In this case we CAN make a much, much more secure voting system... but at what cost? Both in terms of financial cost and societal cost. As already pointed out several times before, those that are the most disadvantaged in society are going to be the most put out by these systems and so you naturally will skew the voter population towards the more well-off in society. Then their becomes additional incentives to skew the vote one way or another. And any half-arsed attempt at doing this would just result in inconvenience without actually securing anything. Alas the government has a track record in this stuff, just look at the IP Bill as the most recent example. All they are doing are inconveniencing the general public, but anyone with any true desire to communicate securely can easily side-step any of the measures to do so. And as a side effect all the govt are doing is amassing a large volume of personal data in one place, which just creates a much more valuable target for thieves.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK, how about an 18 year old?

Registered with GP so does exist but no need for medical services for years. Not wanting to drive. Doesn't drink or smoke so doesn't need ID for that.

The point is, yes, he or she could get ID, but we're making it harder for them to vote.

So, we could argue that fair enough, maybe it shouldn't be easy.

But, I postulate that making ID compulsory will reduce voting so it has to be balanced against the level of voter fraud that is believed to exist.

And there's no such thing as free photo ID is there?

Some people may slip through the net but I would think that realistically that would be a very small number.

An 18 year old living at home will either be working (in which case most will have some evidence of their identity, unless employed by Dellboy) or will be in receipt of a benefit.

On the whole, I think it is a good idea, but the point of a trial is to try."

The aforementioned 18 year old could be at school.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do NHS cards still get issued? Haven't seen mine in years. My kids don't have them as far as I know.

I'm sure you could ask for one and you'd get it free and don't you get an NHS card if you're on benefits or tax credits?

I've checked, they don't get issued.

of course they do thats how you get free dental treatment, prescriptions, eye tests etc

So the answer to your point is you get said free treatments by.... turning up!

and showing your NHS card. If you are entitled to benefits you will have one or can get one

Which cards do you mean, I can't find reference to them?

It's not your National Insurance number card.

You have an NHS number if you've registered with a GP but (as I've quoted above) you don't need to know it to get treatment.

Strange. I have an NHS card that entitles me to free prescriptions.

Does every registered voter?

Dunno why I bother

the point I was trying to make was that you can get that form of ID for free and you will get an NHS card every 6 months if you are on benefits or tax credits under the LIS - low income scheme

So now that we've thrashed that one out...!

It still doesn't cover all those who haven't got ID, and nor will it.

so who else wouldn't have some form of ID? something maybe with a NI number on at the address your voting card was sent to?

OK, how about an 18 year old?

Registered with GP so does exist but no need for medical services for years. Not wanting to drive. Doesn't drink or smoke so doesn't need ID for that.

The point is, yes, he or she could get ID, but we're making it harder for them to vote.

So, we could argue that fair enough, maybe it shouldn't be easy.

But, I postulate that making ID compulsory will reduce voting so it has to be balanced against the level of voter fraud that is believed to exist.

And there's no such thing as free photo ID is there?

Well said.

-Matt"

In reality, those most disadvantaged in society are most likely to be able to provide ID.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Generally with security in general (physical, electronic, all the same) you have to weight up the cost vs the benefit. NOTHING is 100% secure. It is just a matter of time and cost. E.g. give me enough time and money and I will steal you the crown jewels. And often the act of attempting to secure something just moves the vulnerable area to somewhere else. E.g. it doesn't matter if you have a 1,000 character password to your phone if I can just hit you with a rubber hose until you give it to me. Or steal the backups from somewhere else easier to access.

-Matt"

In essence, since any form of non-photo ID is pretty pointless for this and will only have the effect of slowing down and/or increasing the cost of the voting process (given the queues that appear to happen anyway we'd need to increase staff and their training = ££), then in order for it to be fair we'd have to have some form of free photo ID available to all, albeit maybe means tested.

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In reality, those most disadvantaged in society are most likely to be able to provide ID."

Not photo ID and, as I and others have suggested above, if it isn't then the ID is worthless for this purpose.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

-Matt

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through! "

And don't forget, it's all to tackle a fairly non-existent problem!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

....and to add to this, that we probably wouldn't be able to even implement such a system for many years anyway until our civil servants and the likes have finished untangling the mess of Brexit.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

-Matt

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through!

And don't forget, it's all to tackle a fairly non-existent problem! "

Slough, Peterborough, Birmingham?

It is a problem that requires addressing.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *or Fox SakeCouple
over a year ago

Thornaby

""But wasn't it New Labour who wanted to introduce ID cards?"

As beneficiaries of electoral fraud (along with lib-dems), new labour's motivation in wanting to introduce ID cards was hardly out of any desire to clean up the voting system."

Can you provide evidence of that, or alternatively, shut the f##k up?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

-Matt

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through!

And don't forget, it's all to tackle a fairly non-existent problem!

Slough, Peterborough, Birmingham?

It is a problem that requires addressing."

No it is not.

At least, not according to the Electoral Commission that 272 cases reported in 2014. 51% of which showed after investigation to have no fraud involved. I can't spot any of those location in their data, but tbh they may come under other Local Authorities, I don't know enough about those cities to tell.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Sorry by utility bills I meant anything that proves you are living at a particular address, that will correspond with the electoral roll.....I've had a heavy night out with friends and family and the vino has impacted upon me somewhat, lol."

Firstly, what has been reported by the BBC and ITV. They both say utility bill or passport. Not local government letter, not DWP benefits letter, not photo licence. Therefore I am going to work on the principle that the proposal is for there to be 2 forms of acceptable ID, a utility bill (that's a gas, electric or water bill) or a passport. There can be no doubt that will disenfranchise many and disproportionately effect the poor.

That so many seem to see this as a good thing being done for our benefit is really disturbing.

Secondly, hotlove quotes omaha about people taking the piss and then says:
"Exactly.

You need your ID card to vote in Germany and I'm pretty sure the same applies to most (if not all) other EU countries.

I wonder if the naysayers would still be as vociferous if this had come in the form of an EU directive. Hmmmmm.

I note you fail to mention that everyone over the age of 16 has to carry a German ID card or passport at all times. Now I would describe not mentioning that as taking the piss!

I have no problems with having ID cards, nor do I have a problem with having a national DNA data base with 100% registration. I do have a problem with a requirement that means some not all will have to produce ID to vote and that voters will have to either have credit accounts with utility companies or buy a passport in order to exercise their franchise.

That so many here cant see the democratic problems these proposals will cause is very disquieting.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

-Matt

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through!

And don't forget, it's all to tackle a fairly non-existent problem!

Slough, Peterborough, Birmingham?

It is a problem that requires addressing.

No it is not.

-Matt"

You don't recall the Birmingham case?

Here ya go.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4406575.stm

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

-Matt

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through!

And don't forget, it's all to tackle a fairly non-existent problem!

Slough, Peterborough, Birmingham?

It is a problem that requires addressing.

No it is not.

-Matt

You don't recall the Birmingham case?

Here ya go.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4406575.stm"

Nope. I didn't see that.

So how does all the talk of voter ID help with postal ballot fraud in the Birmingham case then? It looks like exactly as I said above, trying to implement voter ID would not solve the issue at hand.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

-Matt

And that ID would have to be very non-discrimatory or people wouldn't use it, they'd prefer to give up right to vote so same effect.

This really does sound like a great idea until you start to think it through!

And don't forget, it's all to tackle a fairly non-existent problem!

Slough, Peterborough, Birmingham?

It is a problem that requires addressing.

No it is not.

-Matt

You don't recall the Birmingham case?

Here ya go.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4406575.stm

Nope. I didn't see that.

So how does all the talk of voter ID help with postal ballot fraud in the Birmingham case then? It looks like exactly as I said above, trying to implement voter ID would not solve the issue at hand.

-Matt"

You are right there. But you might want to read the full Electoral Commission's report leading to the recommendations. The Commission does think it is an issue that needs addressing.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/electoral-fraud/electoral-fraud-vulnerabilities-review?a=155335

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The Commission does think it is an issue that needs addressing."

The problem is not addressing the issue. It is the method being proposed that is the problem.

The fact is the Tories claim to be the party of all while everything they do divides the country, harms the majority, marginalises the poor while benefiting the rich and powerful.

This is nothing more than a thinly veiled proposal to remove more people from the electoral roll.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Commission does think it is an issue that needs addressing.

The problem is not addressing the issue. It is the method being proposed that is the problem.

The fact is the Tories claim to be the party of all while everything they do divides the country, harms the majority, marginalises the poor while benefiting the rich and powerful.

This is nothing more than a thinly veiled proposal to remove more people from the electoral roll."

How so? Do feel free to rant against the Tories.

The Electoral Commission is independent.

Folk on benefits will certainly be able to provide ID, won't they? Who will be excluded from voting?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/12/16 16:44:21]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Commission does think it is an issue that needs addressing.

The problem is not addressing the issue. It is the method being proposed that is the problem.

The fact is the Tories claim to be the party of all while everything they do divides the country, harms the majority, marginalises the poor while benefiting the rich and powerful.

This is nothing more than a thinly veiled proposal to remove more people from the electoral roll.

How so? Do feel free to rant against the Tories.

The Electoral Commission is independent.

Folk on benefits will certainly be able to provide ID, won't they? Who will be excluded from voting?"

Well, as I've answered above, quite a few!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You are right there. But you might want to read the full Electoral Commission's report leading to the recommendations. The Commission does think it is an issue that needs addressing.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/electoral-fraud/electoral-fraud-vulnerabilities-review?a=155335"

Yes, it does, but it also acknowledges how small an issue it is and it refers to the very points we're making here about the methods used to solove it not causing people do be disenfranchised.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Commission does think it is an issue that needs addressing.

The problem is not addressing the issue. It is the method being proposed that is the problem.

The fact is the Tories claim to be the party of all while everything they do divides the country, harms the majority, marginalises the poor while benefiting the rich and powerful.

This is nothing more than a thinly veiled proposal to remove more people from the electoral roll.

How so? Do feel free to rant against the Tories.

The Electoral Commission is independent.

Folk on benefits will certainly be able to provide ID, won't they? Who will be excluded from voting?

Well, as I've answered above, quite a few!"

Did you have a form of ID when you were 18?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did you have a form of ID when you were 18?"

I did have a driving licence, yes, but then my family was well enough off that I could afford that.

My point, however, is that here on fab most of us will have a range of IDs. I have passport, driving licence, birth certificate (but see my comments above about how easy that is to get!), utility and council tax bills. So, by UK standards, I'm pretty well IDd to the max. I think that the vast majority of fabsters will have some of these as we're online.

I think that also clouds our judgement as to other peoples' circumstances. We're in danger of not seeing how it is for them. It's very easy to see 18 year olds, living at home, still at school, not driving, not travelling, and therefore with none of the above IDs. It's also easy to see pensioners (although I do agree that presumably they have some sort of pension book or equivalent) in a similar boat. And not hard to see people living in HMOs etc as adults in the same situation. And these are the ones we can think of, you can be certain that there are others we haven't considered.

There are, I believe, people out there who don't have the ID required to let them vote under these proposals. So what do we do about them? Say 'tough shit mate'? Require them to pay for some ID just for this? That would be akin to charging them to vote, which seems wrong to me.

Voting is an important right and, I believe, duty. I have never missed a ballot in a range of things, including referendums (four) and elections for parish, district and county councillors as well as to Westminster and the European parliament.

So important that we should be extremely careful that our response to (if Matt's figures are correct) an almost negligible level of electoral fraud does not create more problems than it solves.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did you have a form of ID when you were 18?

I did have a driving licence, yes, but then my family was well enough off that I could afford that.

So important that we should be extremely careful that our response to (if Matt's figures are correct) an almost negligible level of electoral fraud does not create more problems than it solves. "

Your "negligible level" of fraud did lead to a major election in Birmingham being overturned.

And I do think most 18 year olds have some form of ID these days.

I think the trial (yes, trial) is a damned jolly idea.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And I do think most 18 year olds have some form of ID these days."

Of course most of them do, but that's not the point is it? If we're only bothered about most people then fine, go right ahead, we're only disenfrachising a few people so that OK then!

Really? Do you really think it's acceptable because 'most' 18 year olds have ID? And what about the others in society?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your "negligible level" of fraud did lead to a major election in Birmingham being overturned."

Hang on, didn't we just agree above that this was a postal ballot fraud? If not, OK, I accept the point (and I did say 'if the figures are correct') and maybe it's not negligible. But if it was postal ballot fraud then this ID business we're discussing is irrelevant.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And I do think most 18 year olds have some form of ID these days.

Of course most of them do, but that's not the point is it? If we're only bothered about most people then fine, go right ahead, we're only disenfrachising a few people so that OK then!

Really? Do you really think it's acceptable because 'most' 18 year olds have ID? And what about the others in society?

I find it inconceivable that folk would have no way of proving their ID.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Just a couple of facts that may be of interest to some...

There were 130 allegations of electoral fraud in the 2015 general election. That is 130 out of 54 million voters that is 0.0000002407% of the electorate...

29 Tory MP's are under police investigation for electoral expenses fraud in the same 2015 general election. That's 29 of 330 Tory MP's or 8.78% of all Tory MP's...

Now which of these 2 problems do the Tories think requires electoral reform to correct and which have they been attempting to have the courts suppress investigation of?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a couple of facts that may be of interest to some...

There were 130 allegations of electoral fraud in the 2015 general election. That is 130 out of 54 million voters that is 0.0000002407% of the electorate...

29 Tory MP's are under police investigation for electoral expenses fraud in the same 2015 general election. That's 29 of 330 Tory MP's or 8.78% of all Tory MP's...

Now which of these 2 problems do the Tories think requires electoral reform to correct and which have they been attempting to have the courts suppress investigation of? "

That would be the overturned Birmingham election then?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And I do think most 18 year olds have some form of ID these days.

Of course most of them do, but that's not the point is it? If we're only bothered about most people then fine, go right ahead, we're only disenfrachising a few people so that OK then!

Really? Do you really think it's acceptable because 'most' 18 year olds have ID? And what about the others in society?

I find it inconceivable that folk would have no way of proving their ID. "

See my comments above about our need to see life how others actually face it!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a couple of facts that may be of interest to some...

There were 130 allegations of electoral fraud in the 2015 general election. That is 130 out of 54 million voters that is 0.0000002407% of the electorate...

29 Tory MP's are under police investigation for electoral expenses fraud in the same 2015 general election. That's 29 of 330 Tory MP's or 8.78% of all Tory MP's...

Now which of these 2 problems do the Tories think requires electoral reform to correct and which have they been attempting to have the courts suppress investigation of?

That would be the overturned Birmingham election then?"

Can you just confirm to us please, was the Birmingham one to which you refer a postal ballot fraud issue or not?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/12/16 18:12:20]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a couple of facts that may be of interest to some...

There were 130 allegations of electoral fraud in the 2015 general election. That is 130 out of 54 million voters that is 0.0000002407% of the electorate...

29 Tory MP's are under police investigation for electoral expenses fraud in the same 2015 general election. That's 29 of 330 Tory MP's or 8.78% of all Tory MP's...

Now which of these 2 problems do the Tories think requires electoral reform to correct and which have they been attempting to have the courts suppress investigation of?

That would be the overturned Birmingham election then?

Can you just confirm to us please, was the Birmingham one to which you refer a postal ballot fraud issue or not?"

Yes, it was. And, once more, the Electoral Comission has ... Jeez, how many more times.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a couple of facts that may be of interest to some...

There were 130 allegations of electoral fraud in the 2015 general election. That is 130 out of 54 million voters that is 0.0000002407% of the electorate...

29 Tory MP's are under police investigation for electoral expenses fraud in the same 2015 general election. That's 29 of 330 Tory MP's or 8.78% of all Tory MP's...

Now which of these 2 problems do the Tories think requires electoral reform to correct and which have they been attempting to have the courts suppress investigation of?

That would be the overturned Birmingham election then?

Can you just confirm to us please, was the Birmingham one to which you refer a postal ballot fraud issue or not?

Yes, it was. And, once more, the Electoral Comission has ... Jeez, how many more times."

OK, so if it is about postal ballot fraud, and this thread is about polling station ID requirements, what is the relevance of your comments about Birmingham?

Jeez, how many more times?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

^^^^

It is not about corruption! If it were the first order of business would be Electoral Expenses Fraud.

Truth is this is about disenfranchising potential non tory voters!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

Answering from other thread that got closed as I was posting:

I won't even bother to bring up the issue of how that helps prevent postal vote fraud.

-Matt

Please do, I'm interested to know.

Also interested in why presenting ID would not help ensure proper process..."

How exactly do you propose to present this ID for a postal vote or proxy vote?

Unless we have a state issued mandatory ID card and all the cost and hassle of that, then proposing using something like a utility bill for ID does diddly squat to prevent fraud. All it would do is add hassle to the process and disenfranchise voters.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"The problem with the changes that have been and are being made is they reduce the number of people able to vote. That cannot be good for representative government."

It's probably the majority of people who can't be arsed to vote that are complain Not about having to produce ID anyway.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can't see a problem with this

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with the changes that have been and are being made is they reduce the number of people able to vote. That cannot be good for representative government.

It's probably the majority of people who can't be arsed to vote that are complain Not about having to produce ID anyway."
.

Most people can't be arsed voting because there all useless cunts.... It's come as a surprise to me that anybody is going to all these lengths to vote twice

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Most people can't be arsed voting because there all useless cunts..."

And most of the cunts are in power because there are so many apathetic pricks who refuse to vote and remove them.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Most people can't be arsed voting because there all useless cunts...

And most of the cunts are in power because there are so many apathetic pricks who refuse to vote and remove them."

which useless cunt do you vote for?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"which useless cunt do you vote for?"

I'm an active member of the Labour Party so that is a non question for me.

Really the question should be if you think they are all useless cunts what are you doing to change politics? Or do you expect those of us who do play an active roll in politics to pander to your wishes without you putting any effort in?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"which useless cunt do you vote for?

I'm an active member of the Labour Party so that is a non question for me.

Thats made me laugh

An active member of the Labour party and a non question? I take it you don't actually vote for anyone then?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"which useless cunt do you vote for?

I'm an active member of the Labour Party so that is a non question for me.

The Labour Party are doing something to change politics. Currently by making themselves totally unelectable and giving us a one party state for the foreseeable...... but this thread is about if we should show ID to vote.

It is required in most democracies and the international bodies that oversee elections have said that without that our system is wide open to corruption....as proved conclusively in Tower Hamlets.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread