FabSwingers.com forum: Who was worse ? Hitler ? Mao ? Or Stalin ?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I will stick with Hitler , because of the Holocaust , but I see it as a closer comparison with the other two than history seems to have adjudged !

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Pol Pot was a bit of an evil twat. He had all the experts killed off......

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Hitler, he exported his violence to world.

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

It's an interesting question but on a serious note I don't think we can engage in moral relativism when it comes to mass-murdering tyrants. There is no Gold, Silver and Bronze in evil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly stalin by a long long way

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I certainly think he runs Hitler very close !

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By *leasure domMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

In terms of numbers, Mao has the title - although the effects were mostly felt by his own people.

Hitler and his allies, Japan and Italy, unleashed the dogs of war against virtually the whole world, so in terms of impact Hitler was the worst.

However, anyone living under soviet repression would probably place Stalin as world's most evil dictator.

Poland suffered greatly under the repression of Hitler and Stalin during the war and after the war by Stalin again. I believe that most Poles would say that Stalin was the bigger evil.

There's not much point in trying to create a table of worst tyrants, but in terms of morality, I would support the proposition that assassination of any of them should be classified as a virtuous kill.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thatcher she was just an evil bstrd

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd add Bin Laden to the formbook as well.

I would credit him (and the koran of course) as the inspiration behind nearly 30,000 world-wide murderous islamo-nazi attacks since 9/11.

This year alone SO FAR there have been 2416 recorded islamo-nazi attacks in 59 countries, in which 20948 people have been killed and 26292 injured.

That of course doesn't include conspiracies/attempts e.g. the plan by Melbourne's islamo-nazis to blow up Melbourne Cathedral and the railway station on Christmas Day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I certainly think he runs Hitler very close !"
.

The reason I picked Stalin was nothing to do with numbers of dead, it's the fact he took a genuine revolution for something better than the tsar offered (which was terrible in itself) and turned it into something equally as bad or worse.

Everybody else at least set out on the path of dictatorships from the outset

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"I certainly think he runs Hitler very close !.

Everybody else at least set out on the path of dictatorships from the outset"

Good point

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

a photo finish in this race

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

Have to say stalin.hitler was lunatic with an idea Stalin was just a lunatic

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The reason I picked Stalin was nothing to do with numbers of dead, it's the fact he took a genuine revolution for something better than the tsar offered (which was terrible in itself) and turned it into something equally as bad or worse.

Everybody else at least set out on the path of dictatorships from the outset"

I like your thinking. However on the plus side for Stalin took a country with 98% illiteracy and no industrial base and built a world nuclear industrial superpower that was first into space and had universal literacy. I for one don't think that would have been possible to achieve in the 40 years it took by any other method.

Therefore I still favour Hitler for the 40 or so million he is responsible for killing in 5 years.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I don't think one can be considered better or worse than another, they were all evil bastard, and there are others too, Pol Pot has also been mentioned. I wonder what some Indian nations would say about some American presidents, or what some of our former colonies would say about us. The concentration camp is after all a British invention.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No comparison of evil can be complete without including longshanks and butcher Billy Cumberland

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"I don't think one can be considered better or worse than another, they were all evil bastard, and there are others too, Pol Pot has also been mentioned. I wonder what some Indian nations would say about some American presidents, or what some of our former colonies would say about us. The concentration camp is after all a British invention."

Again I agree, an evil bastard is an evil bastard, and the world is full of evil bastards. The question has to be how much good came from the damage they cause?

I would suggest the likes of Pol Pot, Paul Kagame (Rwanda), Foday Kallay of the West Side Boys (Sierra Leone) and the Ill dynasty in N Korea stand out as having no saving graces to their tyranny.

Again just my personal opinion, and the distinctions I am making are very small.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stalin.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism"

So you think Hitler was a socialist...

That explains much...

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism

So you think Hitler was a socialist...

That explains much...

National socialist the german workers party

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism

So you think Hitler was a socialist...

That explains much...

Yes he was. Didn't he employ socialist policies? Create jobs through government etc? Follow a lot of what Marx said? Didn't he blame the rich for the countries problems? National socialism is just socialism with a different name

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism"

Two of them were communist and one was a national socialist (nazi). Just because socialist is in the title it does not meant he was one. It's like when you corrected me about neo-facist in the past. An extract below mention they reject the Marxist concept of class struggle.

"The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class struggle, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism, and sought to convince all parts of a new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good" and to accept the priority of political interests in economic organisation."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/12/16 21:09:27]

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By *rown ThunderMan
over a year ago

newport

I would also add our own government and USA government to that list. Hundreds of thousands killed in Afghanistan.Iraq..Syria combined

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism

class struggle? Who knows but everything about national socialism in Germany was based on Marx.

Pol pot was also a socialist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's like saying Ukip and tories are the same. Both say right wing.

But Ukip are anti elitists apparently. Which makes them nothing like the Tories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism

class struggle? Who knows but everything about national socialism in Germany was based on Marx.

Pol pot was also a socialist"

But Marxism is all about class struggle. It's against capitalism because the theory is that it creates a split in class.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The question were all missing is what are revolutions born out of.... Instead we seem to be discussing what they turn into!.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does it matter the politics of the person

I think what matters is,too a man they wanted to rule the world they didn't like you because you where different to them

Black,jew,pole,gypsy,christian,

Catholic.

Whatever !!!!

It isn't politics its ideology I dont like yours so you will bow down to mine as i am bigger and stronger than you.

Just an aside, take a look at the man in the high castle on amazon possibly could jave been

Andy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does it matter the politics of the person

I think what matters is,too a man they wanted to rule the world they didn't like you because you where different to them

Black,jew,pole,gypsy,christian,

Catholic.

Whatever !!!!

It isn't politics its ideology I dont like yours so you will bow down to mine as i am bigger and stronger than you.

Just an aside, take a look at the man in the high castle on amazon possibly could jave been

Andy

I agree. It's just an ideology, a theory or a believe. It does not define what actions or intentions they have.

We can probably name a killer from any ideology. For example, buddhism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'We are socialists, we are enemies of todays capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with the unfair salaries, with the unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance and we are determined to destroy the system under all conditions'

Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

Straight from the horses mouth you might say, so who are we to argue

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By *TheBoneMan
over a year ago

Bury, Lancashire

dont forget Corbyn and the unions

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"dont forget Corbyn and the unions"

You might not like Corbyn, I certainly don't, but he hasn't killed anyone, and I doubt he ever will.

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

@candm4u: political ideology is horse shoe shaped, whether they consider themselves right wing or left wing, if it entails mass murder (I don't include soldiers killing each other in battle) its the same thing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"dont forget Corbyn and the unions

You might not like Corbyn, I certainly don't, but he hasn't killed anyone, and I doubt he ever will. "

Not sure you could say the same about Mc Donald ? Got to be the most scary politician on the Planet !!!

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

"dont forget Corbyn and the unions"

I really, really hope that was an ironic comment.

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

Pol pot was also a socialist"

Henry Kissinger is a capitalist.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"There seems to be one constant with them all though. Socialism"
So very true

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"dont forget Corbyn and the unions

You might not like Corbyn, I certainly don't, but he hasn't killed anyone, and I doubt he ever will.

Not sure you could say the same about Mc Donald ? Got to be the most scary politician on the Planet !!!"

Again, not killed anyone, never will. Hardly comparable to the people mentioned in the OP

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

A question to those who mistakenly believe Hitler was on the left, and was a socialist, do you think there has ever been a right wing dictator, and if so, who?

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By *ubble troubleCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

"A question to those who mistakenly believe Hitler was on the left, and was a socialist, do you think there has ever been a right wing dictator, and if so, who? "

Henry Kissinger is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths through his malign influence on US presidents.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"A question to those who mistakenly believe Hitler was on the left, and was a socialist, do you think there has ever been a right wing dictator, and if so, who? "

Augusto Pinochet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A question to those who mistakenly believe Hitler was on the left, and was a socialist, do you think there has ever been a right wing dictator, and if so, who?

Augusto Pinochet."

Waiting for someone to say he is a socialist...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/12/16 22:56:08]

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"A question to those who mistakenly believe Hitler was on the left, and was a socialist, do you think there has ever been a right wing dictator, and if so, who?

Augusto Pinochet."

And why do you believe that Pinochet was on the right and Hitler was on the left. What do you see as their main ideological differences?

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

"A question to those who mistakenly believe Hitler was on the left, and was a socialist, do you think there has ever been a right wing dictator, and if so, who?

Augusto Pinochet.

And why do you believe that Pinochet was on the right and Hitler was on the left. What do you see as their main ideological differences?"

I never mentioned anything about Hitler. I was just trying to help out by answering your question.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

Having done a quick google search this wiki link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#Hitler.27s_views_on_economics) gives a decent description of Germany's pre war (1939) economy that makes it pretty clear it was what we would call socialist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"'We are socialists, we are enemies of todays capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with the unfair salaries, with the unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance and we are determined to destroy the system under all conditions'

Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

Straight from the horses mouth you might say, so who are we to argue"

He's just a bloke who didn't like anyone that was different

Hence the master race

He was a racist above all else, it was the politics of a single twisted mind that due to circumstances swayed a whole nation to his narrow minded beliefs.

Socialism,facsism,isms !!! All bull isms just some bully who wants what you have and as he thinks he is bigger and stronger he can take it.

Doesn't matter how you dress it up fundamentally its the big guy against the little guy coz the big guy wants what you have and doesnt like the way you think and he is taking what you have

Fuck you fuck your beliefs mine are better mine are stronger

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think stalin was honest compared to our leaders today when he said.One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

We wont be shedding a tear over 500,0000 body bags in iraq down to us.Thats before isis even existed. Its just numbers.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927

Straight from the horses mouth you might say, so who are we to argue

He's just a bloke who didn't like anyone that was different

Hence the master race

He was a racist above all else, it was the politics of a single twisted mind that due to circumstances swayed a whole nation to his narrow minded beliefs.

Socialism,facsism,isms !!! All bull isms just some bully who wants what you have and as he thinks he is bigger and stronger he can take it.

Doesn't matter how you dress it up fundamentally its the big guy against the little guy coz the big guy wants what you have and doesnt like the way you think and he is taking what you have

Fuck you fuck your beliefs mine are better mine are stronger "

I think the (not particularly difficult) concept that some people are failing to grasp is that Hitler was a) a nutter and b)Borrowed bits from lots of different ideologies, which he dictated in a series of rants to form the basis of Mein Kampf. He waged war on socialists (of the non nationalist variety)....

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"It's an interesting question but on a serious note I don't think we can engage in moral relativism when it comes to mass-murdering tyrants. There is no Gold, Silver and Bronze in evil."

But, in relation to the OP, these are my thoughts too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think when discussing their politics that it is worth keeping in mind that politics is a circle, and so Hitler being so far right and stalin being far to the left essentially made them cut from the same cloth in terms of their beliefs.

Stalin was definetly a nut job, I remember reading about a mass grave that was discovered. The Russians blamed the Germans, how ever the hands of the people who were killed were tied in a way that the Russians did. Plus it got to a point with stalin where the top guys in his military were all early 20's as he kept killing them when they brought him bad news.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I certainly think he runs Hitler very close !.

Everybody else at least set out on the path of dictatorships from the outset"

Bad comparison; the Russian Revolution created its own mythos and Stalin's part in that was attacked (of course very reasonably) by Trotskites and then within Russia following Khrushchev's 'Secret Speech'.

Stalin was a paranoiac. He used terror as a yardstick of obedience - quotas for arrests and executions - the Great Purges, 'collectivisation', the GULAGs and the rest.

The belief of the old left is that Stalin perverted the Revolution.

But Trotsky had martial law declared in factories, Lenin created the CHEKA, instigated the Red Terror...

The seed of authoritarianism was strong in Russia under the Tsars and was a dictatorship under Lenin. Stalin made it into an Orwellian nightmare.

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