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"My question about tariffs is why do people think they'll 'cancel each other out'? I see them as being cumulative. For example, say you're building a Qashqai, most of your raw materials have to be imported so there'll be import duties on these which will increase the price of the car in the UK. Then there'll be tariffs added when the vehicle is exported to the EU. So that increases the cost still further. What am I missing? " Maybe the fact that we currently pay more into the EU than we get out. By leaving we save this contribution and will not be contributing to all those countries that are net beneficaries . In any event we will be negotiating an agreement where duties will not apply . The German motor industry would not want to see the UK suffer and because of our engineering excellence , 8 out of 11 formula 1 racing teams are based here . | |||
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"My question about tariffs is why do people think they'll 'cancel each other out'? I see them as being cumulative. For example, say you're building a Qashqai, most of your raw materials have to be imported so there'll be import duties on these which will increase the price of the car in the UK. Then there'll be tariffs added when the vehicle is exported to the EU. So that increases the cost still further. What am I missing? " If this example were true we would be beneficaries as the export duties would be more than the import duties. To ensure that the duties cancel the government can fine tune the rates . | |||
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"My question about tariffs is why do people think they'll 'cancel each other out'? I see them as being cumulative. For example, say you're building a Qashqai, most of your raw materials have to be imported so there'll be import duties on these which will increase the price of the car in the UK. Then there'll be tariffs added when the vehicle is exported to the EU. So that increases the cost still further. What am I missing? If this example were true we would be beneficaries as the export duties would be more than the import duties. To ensure that the duties cancel the government can fine tune the rates . " One of the tariffs we will be making people pay is on oranges, you know to protect those UK commercial orange farmers. But hang on, we don't have any UK orange growers? So why is Liam Fox placing an import tariff on oranges? | |||
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"My question about tariffs is why do people think they'll 'cancel each other out'? I see them as being cumulative. For example, say you're building a Qashqai, most of your raw materials have to be imported so there'll be import duties on these which will increase the price of the car in the UK. Then there'll be tariffs added when the vehicle is exported to the EU. So that increases the cost still further. What am I missing? If this example were true we would be beneficaries as the export duties would be more than the import duties. To ensure that the duties cancel the government can fine tune the rates . One of the tariffs we will be making people pay is on oranges, you know to protect those UK commercial orange farmers. But hang on, we don't have any UK orange growers? So why is Liam Fox placing an import tariff on oranges? " How do we know that there will be an inport tariff on Oranges . ? | |||
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" One of the tariffs we will be making people pay is on oranges, you know to protect those UK commercial orange farmers. But hang on, we don't have any UK orange growers? So why is Liam Fox placing an import tariff on oranges? How do we know that there will be an inport tariff on Oranges . ? " Well Pat I'm glad you asked. Part of the Brexit plan is to take a seat on the WTO. One of the things you have to do before you can do this is to produce what's called a schedule. A schedule is a list of all the tariffs you are going to charge everyone else in the world. The schedule that Liam Fox has submitted to the WTO for Britain is exactly the same as the EUs, he just copied it. He didn't take it as a starting point and then create a bespoke option unique to the UK, he just copied it wholesale. The EU has commercial orange farmers, so the point of tariffs on oranges is to give say a Spanish orange producer an advantage over say a Florida orange producer. It makes sense for the EU as a whole, but this is just one example of a tariff which is of zero benefit to UK industry. I thought that we were going to be a shining beacon of free trade, but instead we are putting tariffs on things we dont even produce. | |||
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"But we also need unanimous support for us to get a seat on the WTO. Apparently countries like Argentina might use it to force a deal on the Falklands. " Could be interesting, we've upset a lot of people! Spain re Gibralter. Any Arab country re Iraq. Any EU country and EU re Brexit. USA re Farage. Canada re Trump via Farage. (The entire world re Farage!) Many South American countries re supporting Argentina re Falklands. And it has to be unanimous? Oh dear! | |||
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"But we also need unanimous support for us to get a seat on the WTO. Apparently countries like Argentina might use it to force a deal on the Falklands. " What do you mean by a"seat" ? | |||
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"But we also need unanimous support for us to get a seat on the WTO. Apparently countries like Argentina might use it to force a deal on the Falklands. Could be interesting, we've upset a lot of people! Spain re Gibralter. Any Arab country re Iraq. Any EU country and EU re Brexit. USA re Farage. Canada re Trump via Farage. (The entire world re Farage!) Many South American countries re supporting Argentina re Falklands. And it has to be unanimous? Oh dear!" What are you suggesting that maybe brexit may not lead to a land of milk and WTO honey? It must be a remoaner plot because we all know that the 17.5 million majority (in a country of 55 million) cant be wrong. The brexiteers have told us so...  | |||
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"But we also need unanimous support for us to get a seat on the WTO. Apparently countries like Argentina might use it to force a deal on the Falklands. Could be interesting, we've upset a lot of people! Spain re Gibralter. Any Arab country re Iraq. Any EU country and EU re Brexit. USA re Farage. Canada re Trump via Farage. (The entire world re Farage!) Many South American countries re supporting Argentina re Falklands. And it has to be unanimous? Oh dear!" If you look at the WTO web site it says the uk along with all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right, the eu is also a member,,both have been me,bers since the wto was founded in 1995 | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/" So now your quoting the sun ??????? 
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/ So now your quoting the sun ???????
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends "I wouldn't describe Argentina as our friend.  | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but..." "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? " Nice, very nice! | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? " An old thick racist bigot just like all leave voters | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? " But you should know better than to quote an expert. I mean, Nobel laureate, what could he know better than any Brit? | |||
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" Which one would you say you are? An old thick racist bigot just like all leave voters "So stop dodging the question, is Argentina our friend, and what billionaires club have we been paying into that Argentina is a member of? | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/ So now your quoting the sun ???????
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends "Just out of interest, why wouldn't you look? You argue a lot on here (as do others), are you telling us that you argue without checking your information? I always check what I'm writing (as you know, Google is my friend and I am skilled in evaluation of sources [or are you one of these who knocks those of us who research, source and cite our arguments here?] and in their citation), why don't you do us the decency of at least reading a source before commenting on it? | |||
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"But we also need unanimous support for us to get a seat on the WTO. Apparently countries like Argentina might use it to force a deal on the Falklands. Could be interesting, we've upset a lot of people! Spain re Gibralter. Any Arab country re Iraq. Any EU country and EU re Brexit. USA re Farage. Canada re Trump via Farage. (The entire world re Farage!) Many South American countries re supporting Argentina re Falklands. And it has to be unanimous? Oh dear! What are you suggesting that maybe brexit may not lead to a land of milk and WTO honey? It must be a remoaner plot because we all know that the 17.5 million majority (in a country of 55 million) cant be wrong. The brexiteers have told us so... "I'm still struggling with the logic of "we're going to be champions of free trade" and to do this we're going to .... leave the world's largest free trade block. If Monty Pyrhon had written that we be pissing ourselves with laughter! | |||
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" I'm still struggling with the logic of "we're going to be champions of free trade" and to do this we're going to .... leave the world's largest free trade block. If Monty Pyrhon had written that we be pissing ourselves with laughter! " And we are going to keep EXACTLY the same tariffs are the block we have just left. But don't we want to be more competitive? No! Ok, maybe we should offer greater protection for our industries then? No! But we don't need tariffs on things like oranges, there are no UK orange producers. We do! | |||
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"I'm still struggling with the logic of "we're going to be champions of free trade" and to do this we're going to .... leave the world's largest free trade block. If Monty Pyrhon had written that we be pissing ourselves with laughter! " Maybe this year since June is, in fact, a huge global Monty Python sketch? | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/ So now your quoting the sun ???????
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends
Just out of interest, why wouldn't you look? You argue a lot on here (as do others), are you telling us that you argue without checking your information?
I always check what I'm writing (as you know, Google is my friend and I am skilled in evaluation of sources [or are you one of these who knocks those of us who research, source and cite our arguments here?] and in their citation), why don't you do us the decency of at least reading a source before commenting on it?"It is a waste of time reading peoples sources or links . Any one can selectively quote a source that backs up their case but ignore all those that do not . I did do a Google search here once on someones link and the information was farcial. If I were to start posting source information on here I would begin to wonder what had gone wrong in my life that I had time to spend posting links on an internet forum. Would anyone be bothered looking at someones link. ? What type of person has spare time to do this . These are discussion forums where people express opinions . If it was an important issue , I do not think I would be posting it on a forum such as this . I prefer to trust people and assume what they write is either true or their opinion. I have never once checked anyones links on here and have no intention of starting now . | |||
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"I'm still struggling with the logic of "we're going to be champions of free trade" and to do this we're going to .... leave the world's largest free trade block. If Monty Pyrhon had written that we be pissing ourselves with laughter! Maybe this year since June is, in fact, a huge global Monty Python sketch? " He might not be laughing when he works out how much we will save. 8 out of 11 formula one racing teams are based here because our techology is world leading. | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? " Do the system 2 thinkers ever achieve anything or do they spend so much time making a decision that they get nothing done . | |||
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"I'm still struggling with the logic of "we're going to be champions of free trade" and to do this we're going to .... leave the world's largest free trade block. If Monty Pyrhon had written that we be pissing ourselves with laughter! Maybe this year since June is, in fact, a huge global Monty Python sketch? He might not be laughing when he works out how much we will save. 8 out of 11 formula one racing teams are based here because our techology is world leading." So you are basing our economic future on the fact that Eight motor racing teams choose to base themselves here? Simplification of national economics is such a wonderful art...... | |||
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"I'm still struggling with the logic of "we're going to be champions of free trade" and to do this we're going to .... leave the world's largest free trade block. If Monty Pyrhon had written that we be pissing ourselves with laughter! Maybe this year since June is, in fact, a huge global Monty Python sketch? He might not be laughing when he works out how much we will save. 8 out of 11 formula one racing teams are based here because our techology is world leading. So you are basing our economic future on the fact that Eight motor racing teams choose to base themselves here? Simplification of national economics is such a wonderful art......" Just engineering excellence . Very similar to the farm machinery now being manufactured which can between plants automatically using photo images . | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? Do the system 2 thinkers ever achieve anything or do they spend so much time making a decision that they get nothing done ." Do you think the F1 engineers or thr agricultural engineers you mention are sytem 1 or system 2 thinkers? | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? " How long were you thinking about voting to leave the EU for? | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? Do the system 2 thinkers ever achieve anything or do they spend so much time making a decision that they get nothing done . Do you think the F1 engineers or thr agricultural engineers you mention are sytem 1 or system 2 thinkers?" Probably system 2 as this is precision engineering. EconomI and political issues are an entirely different scenario. There are two many unknown variables . | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? Do the system 2 thinkers ever achieve anything or do they spend so much time making a decision that they get nothing done . Do you think the F1 engineers or thr agricultural engineers you mention are sytem 1 or system 2 thinkers? Probably system 2 as this is precision engineering. EconomI and political issues are an entirely different scenario. There are two many unknown variables . " And you don't think there are unknown variables in F1 engineering? Do you think that the first racing car, some bloke just chucked it together and was able to get 233 mph? No... they had a go, then look at what worked and what didn't work. A process. A process with a lot of different elements, aerodynamics, materials, mechanics, fuel chemistry... just to name a few. Why do you think economics should be different? Why do you think that people should not try and study economics in the same rigorous way as they do precision engineering? They should be studying all the different variables the different social and political factors and trying to understand them. They won't get it right every time. Sometimes they'll apply too much pressure and blow an engine cylinder. Sometimes a theory won't work out. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown away? When the first racing car engineers got something wrong do you think the world just threw up it's hands and said "Experts?! Pah! nobody needs them, my mate Bob down the pub said..."? Well... to be quite honest, I'd imagine there might be a number of 'my mate Bobs' down the pub of F1... and if they get it right, then they get it right. But if they keep talking bollocks then they get ignored. The current trent of 'anti intellectualism' is really damn scary. It has happened in the past repeatedly and we have managed to overcome it. But right now... it is scary. As someone on here said before. So, next time you go for an operation, would like an 'expert' to do it or not? I know I'm wasting my breath here, and that this will all just be ignored anyway. But thought it worth one last attempt to draw a parallel to your own example. -Matt PS. "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Kahnemann as quoted above, really is a very fascinating book about the human mind. | |||
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" Not going to bother looking but... "What Kahneman and other researchers have empirically confirmed in their work is that the majority of people are ‘System One’ or ‘quick’ thinkers in that they make decisions on impulse, feeling, emotion, and first impressions, rather than ‘System Two’ or ‘slow’ thinkers who seek information, analyse it, and weigh arguments in order to come to decisions. System One thinkers can be captured by slogans, statements dramatised to the point of falsehood, and even downright lies, because they will not check the validity of what is said, but instead will mistrust System Two thinkers whose lengthier arguments and appeals to data are often regarded as efforts to bamboozle and mislead." Which one would you say you are? Do the system 2 thinkers ever achieve anything or do they spend so much time making a decision that they get nothing done . Do you think the F1 engineers or thr agricultural engineers you mention are sytem 1 or system 2 thinkers? Probably system 2 as this is precision engineering. EconomI and political issues are an entirely different scenario. There are two many unknown variables . And you don't think there are unknown variables in F1 engineering? Do you think that the first racing car, some bloke just chucked it together and was able to get 233 mph? No... they had a go, then look at what worked and what didn't work. A process. A process with a lot of different elements, aerodynamics, materials, mechanics, fuel chemistry... just to name a few. Why do you think economics should be different? Why do you think that people should not try and study economics in the same rigorous way as they do precision engineering? They should be studying all the different variables the different social and political factors and trying to understand them. They won't get it right every time. Sometimes they'll apply too much pressure and blow an engine cylinder. Sometimes a theory won't work out. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown away? When the first racing car engineers got something wrong do you think the world just threw up it's hands and said "Experts?! Pah! nobody needs them, my mate Bob down the pub said..."? Well... to be quite honest, I'd imagine there might be a number of 'my mate Bobs' down the pub of F1... and if they get it right, then they get it right. But if they keep talking bollocks then they get ignored. The current trent of 'anti intellectualism' is really damn scary. It has happened in the past repeatedly and we have managed to overcome it. But right now... it is scary. As someone on here said before. So, next time you go for an operation, would like an 'expert' to do it or not? I know I'm wasting my breath here, and that this will all just be ignored anyway. But thought it worth one last attempt to draw a parallel to your own example. -Matt PS. "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Kahnemann as quoted above, really is a very fascinating book about the human mind. " Engineering is a precision topic. Economics is merely a matter of opinion. If you spend too much time analysing data , you will achieve nothing . An expert undertaking an operation is doing a present day event ,not predicting the future .. | |||
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"Again we spend our time arguing about tariffs and not who wrote the traits... Wto,ttip,,NAFTA,cafta... The list is endless all hundreds of thousands of pages long, all wrote by lawyers, CEOs, lobbyists, politicans and billionaires ALL of them fail to consult any public whatsoever about the intentions of them.... Alot of arguing about brexit and what it means but the politicans rarely if ever tell you what the trade deals and tariffs add up to or what there'll do for YOU" good point, its all pretty much bollocks | |||
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"Again we spend our time arguing about tariffs and not who wrote the traits... Wto,ttip,,NAFTA,cafta... The list is endless all hundreds of thousands of pages long, all wrote by lawyers, CEOs, lobbyists, politicans and billionaires ALL of them fail to consult any public whatsoever about the intentions of them.... Alot of arguing about brexit and what it means but the politicans rarely if ever tell you what the trade deals and tariffs add up to or what there'll do for YOU good point, its all pretty much bollocks" . The progressives are anti trade deals and tariffs as well ... Keep your friends close but your enemies even closer | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/ So now your quoting the sun ???????
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends
Just out of interest, why wouldn't you look? You argue a lot on here (as do others), are you telling us that you argue without checking your information?
I always check what I'm writing (as you know, Google is my friend and I am skilled in evaluation of sources [or are you one of these who knocks those of us who research, source and cite our arguments here?] and in their citation), why don't you do us the decency of at least reading a source before commenting on it?"I didnt look because the links were supporting his view I assume, so didnt need to waste time looking at them, | |||
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" The current trent of 'anti intellectualism' is really damn scary. It has happened in the past repeatedly and we have managed to overcome it. But right now... it is scary. As someone on here said before. So, next time you go for an operation, would like an 'expert' to do it or not? I know I'm wasting my breath here, and that this will all just be ignored anyway. But thought it worth one last attempt to draw a parallel to your own example. -Matt PS. "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Kahnemann as quoted above, really is a very fascinating book about the human mind. " A surgeon is using his experience of doing the operation( hopefully sucessfully) many of these so called experts are using theory most of the time from something they have learnt ina classroom, have any of them run a business or done the job themselves ? Remember the saying, they that can do they that cant teach. As for fast or slow thinkers I would say in my business life most of the best decisions have been based on gut feel,instinct and gained knowledge,by the time all these slow thinkers have spent weeks and months talking about a job the progressive thinker has made the decision and moved on. | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/ So now your quoting the sun ???????
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends
Just out of interest, why wouldn't you look? You argue a lot on here (as do others), are you telling us that you argue without checking your information?
I always check what I'm writing (as you know, Google is my friend and I am skilled in evaluation of sources [or are you one of these who knocks those of us who research, source and cite our arguments here?] and in their citation), why don't you do us the decency of at least reading a source before commenting on it?
I didnt look because the links were supporting his view I assume, so didnt need to waste time looking at them,"OK, thanks for clarifying, you're another one who isn't interested in informed discussion, your views, therefore, being utterly pointless. | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' OK, thanks for clarifying, you're another one who isn't interested in informed discussion, your views, therefore, being utterly pointless." Ah the good old I'm cleverer than you. Perhaps I need to write in words of one syllabal. CCLC quoted two links to support his point of view in what we were discussing, I didnt look at either because I believed what he was saying in that they were agreeing with him so there was no need to argue the point, which was that we may have trouble sorting out a new schedule for our dealings under WTO rules,he was, I believe, saying that we would have trouble becoming members,my point was that we are already members in our own right, as no country as large as the uk has ever left a trade block such as the eu we dont know yet how it will work, the remainers seem to want it to be a giant fuck up so they can say I told you so( talk about cutting off your nose) whereas leavers say that it is in everyones interest to get it sorted for everyones benefit | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour." I concur. It is also interesting that, on this forum, the only ones who do it are proclaimed Brexiters. | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour. I concur. It is also interesting that, on this forum, the only ones who do it are proclaimed Brexiters." Its a shame that neither of you two has learnt to read what people are posting instead of what you want it to be, | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour." It is further interesting that those who happily announce that they don't read stuff then tell off those of us that do for not doing so! | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour. It is further interesting that those who happily announce that they don't read stuff then tell off those of us that do for not doing so!" I take it English isnt your first language | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour. I concur. It is also interesting that, on this forum, the only ones who do it are proclaimed Brexiters. Its a shame that neither of you two has learnt to read what people are posting instead of what you want it to be, " It's true though isn't it? You're ignorant out of choice, would you read anything that a Remainer suggested? | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour. I concur. It is also interesting that, on this forum, the only ones who do it are proclaimed Brexiters. Its a shame that neither of you two has learnt to read what people are posting instead of what you want it to be, It's true though isn't it? You're ignorant out of choice, would you read anything that a Remainer suggested? " FFS READ what I posted. I didnt read the links because I took your word for what they said | |||
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"My question about tariffs is why do people think they'll 'cancel each other out'? I see them as being cumulative. For example, say you're building a Qashqai, most of your raw materials have to be imported so there'll be import duties on these which will increase the price of the car in the UK. Then there'll be tariffs added when the vehicle is exported to the EU. So that increases the cost still further. What am I missing? If this example were true we would be beneficaries as the export duties would be more than the import duties. To ensure that the duties cancel the government can fine tune the rates . One of the tariffs we will be making people pay is on oranges, you know to protect those UK commercial orange farmers. But hang on, we don't have any UK orange growers? So why is Liam Fox placing an import tariff on oranges? " Because you just made it up? | |||
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" The current trent of 'anti intellectualism' is really damn scary. It has happened in the past repeatedly and we have managed to overcome it. But right now... it is scary. As someone on here said before. So, next time you go for an operation, would like an 'expert' to do it or not? I know I'm wasting my breath here, and that this will all just be ignored anyway. But thought it worth one last attempt to draw a parallel to your own example. -Matt PS. "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Kahnemann as quoted above, really is a very fascinating book about the human mind. A surgeon is using his experience of doing the operation( hopefully sucessfully) many of these so called experts are using theory most of the time from something they have learnt ina classroom, have any of them run a business or done the job themselves ? Remember the saying, they that can do they that cant teach. As for fast or slow thinkers I would say in my business life most of the best decisions have been based on gut feel,instinct and gained knowledge,by the time all these slow thinkers have spent weeks and months talking about a job the progressive thinker has made the decision and moved on. " My tboughts exactly . Those who a achieve things in life cannot afford to spend time procastinating . When it is you own money involved , quite often you have to go with your gut feeling . I work full time and also run a businness. I do not have time to spend or waste doing endless research . My money , my choice | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour." I do not think anyone is chosing to be ignorant . Those who achieve things in life often have to make snap decisions . The imortant thing is that you have sufficient confidence in yourself to make decisions promptly . Spend too much time researching and life will have moved on my the time you have made your decisions. | |||
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"It's interesting, in my background, social, professional circles etc. I never come across people who chose to be ignorant. Who deliberately hide themselves from information that might challenge their world view. As such, I find it hard to understand such behaviour." What is even scarier is that people are becoming proud of their ignorance. I can totally understand that not everyone in the world has access to the same level of knowledge. And some people don't, for many reasons, have the opportunity to increase their own understanding of the world. I'm not belittling those people. But I do find it scary that those that DO have the privilege of being able to access and comprehend a world of knowledge at their fingertips are actively proud of deliberately not doing so. Like it is some kind of badge of honour. I know that phrase 'ignorance is bliss' but it was not meant to be taken literally or to this extreme. -Matt | |||
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"Its about getting our 'schedule' approved. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/britain-wto-schedule-argentina-spain-brexit-latest-a7468766.html https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2377862/britains-post-brexit-future-could-be-scuppered-as-countries-that-hold-a-grudge-against-us-block-wto-accesss/ So now your quoting the sun ???????
Not going to bother looking but assuming what your saying is that other countries that are meant to be our friends want to get back at us because we dont want to pay in billions to their club anymore, some friends
Just out of interest, why wouldn't you look? You argue a lot on here (as do others), are you telling us that you argue without checking your information?
I always check what I'm writing (as you know, Google is my friend and I am skilled in evaluation of sources [or are you one of these who knocks those of us who research, source and cite our arguments here?] and in their citation), why don't you do us the decency of at least reading a source before commenting on it?
I didnt look because the links were supporting his view I assume, so didnt need to waste time looking at them,
OK, thanks for clarifying, you're another one who isn't interested in informed discussion, your views, therefore, being utterly pointless."If you are so interested in the source of someones post , why not just google the source for youself . ? I enjoy reading peoples opinions but have no interest in the source data of their opinions . If I need to do that a, I am quite capable of doing a Google search. | |||
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"My question about tariffs is why do people think they'll 'cancel each other out'? I see them as being cumulative. For example, say you're building a Qashqai, most of your raw materials have to be imported so there'll be import duties on these which will increase the price of the car in the UK. Then there'll be tariffs added when the vehicle is exported to the EU. So that increases the cost still further. What am I missing? If this example were true we would be beneficaries as the export duties would be more than the import duties. To ensure that the duties cancel the government can fine tune the rates . One of the tariffs we will be making people pay is on oranges, you know to protect those UK commercial orange farmers. But hang on, we don't have any UK orange growers? So why is Liam Fox placing an import tariff on oranges? Because you just made it up?" Come on then Morepork, prove me wrong. I have my sources, but let's see one of yours first. | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows?" Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves ." Really? Stephen Hawking can't think for himself? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ don't have any experience at analysing information? How about the Governer of the BofE, he can't think for himself? The Royal Society, I would have thought there was a thinker or two in there? | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves ." You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . Really? Stephen Hawking can't think for himself? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ don't have any experience at analysing information? How about the Governer of the BofE, he can't think for himself? The Royal Society, I would have thought there was a thinker or two in there? " Stephen Hawking? Clever man but one minute he says there isn't a God and the next he says there is so he's possibly changed his mind now he's had more time to think about it. As for the others? You are confirming my point | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt" I get more out of my local pub than I put in, otherwise I wouldn't go. It depends how you measure things | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt I get more out of my local pub than I put in, otherwise I wouldn't go. It depends how you measure things" Thank you. I know sarcasm can be missed online so it's great having people agree with and explain my post for the sake of those that might miss it. -Matt | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt I get more out of my local pub than I put in, otherwise I wouldn't go. It depends how you measure things Thank you. I know sarcasm can be missed online so it's great having people agree with and explain my post for the sake of those that might miss it. -Matt"  | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt I get more out of my local pub than I put in, otherwise I wouldn't go. It depends how you measure things Thank you. I know sarcasm can be missed online so it's great having people agree with and explain my post for the sake of those that might miss it. -Matt "sarcasm - the lowest form of wit | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt I get more out of my local pub than I put in, otherwise I wouldn't go. It depends how you measure things Thank you. I know sarcasm can be missed online so it's great having people agree with and explain my post for the sake of those that might miss it. -Matt
sarcasm - the lowest form of wit "Why don't you include the whole quote? "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence." - Oscar Wilde | |||
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"I find it hard to comprehend how, with all the information available, anyone could have voted to remain a member of the EU. It really is quite remarkable in this day and age. Maybe its either a deeply entrenched belief that those in authority are always right, must be listened to or obeyed, a fear of the unknown or simply that they are not very bright. Who knows? Sadly there are lots of misinformed people . They fail to understand that we pay more into the EU than we get out . These people are unable to think for themselves . You know who else I pay more into than I get out? My local pub. I swear I've given them more money than I get back out. And they charge more than a can of beer at the supermarket costs. Theiving bastards. The landlord is a bit of a pain in the arse at times too. Unelected twat. He even had the audacity to tell me to fuck off when I told him I had a right to leave my car parked in his car park all week. Who does he think he is? I pay his wages! And when I argued that he should serve me beer after time had been called he said something about licensing laws. When I told him he was lying he even offered to show me the licensing act. I didn't read it of course. Bloody intellectual, thinking he is right. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go sit in the multi-storey car park and drink white lightning. Much cheaper. That'll show him. He was 20% of my disposable income. Just you see, he'll be begging me to come back. Now I just need to work out how to get my car out this multi-storey car park. I've been here a week and they've slapped 3 fines on the windscreen. -Matt -Matt I get more out of my local pub than I put in, otherwise I wouldn't go. It depends how you measure things Thank you. I know sarcasm can be missed online so it's great having people agree with and explain my post for the sake of those that might miss it. -Matt
sarcasm - the lowest form of wit
Why don't you include the whole quote?
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence." - Oscar Wilde
"Because on the second point he was wrong | |||
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"Or being sarcastic  "Or you didn't know the full quote and now look a bit daft? | |||
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"Or being sarcastic
Or you didn't know the full quote and now look a bit daft? "I did actually but you missed the sarcasm didn't you | |||
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"Or being sarcastic
Or you didn't know the full quote and now look a bit daft?
I did actually but you missed the sarcasm didn't you"Of course you did | |||
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