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"Yes, but people have the democratic right to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la la la la' and stick to their guns regardless of learning any new information that they have learned since the referendum. Even if it is to the detriment of their country. -Matt"  | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? " Well I was about to say: which bit of elections are legally binding and referendums (unless specifically stated) are not. But I guess I should hold off until we see how the Governments fight against parliamentary democracy in the supreme court goes first. As if they win that, then it make the whole thing a moot point. -Matt | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? " | |||
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"Yes we leave then as Brits we make it work,of course there will be a cost,but it is the long term good,there is also a cost if we stay,that is called bankrupsy simple" I think you will find that the UK was in absolutely no danger of bankruptcy as members of the EU, quite the opposite in fact, very reasonable growth compared to many western countries.....Leaving however is like stepping off a diving board with a blindfold on, and unsure if someone has pulled the fucking plug in the pool. | |||
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"Yes we leave then as Brits we make it work,of course there will be a cost,but it is the long term good,there is also a cost if we stay,that is called bankrupsy simple I think you will find that the UK was in absolutely no danger of bankruptcy as members of the EU, quite the opposite in fact, very reasonable growth compared to many western countries.....Leaving however is like stepping off a diving board with a blindfold on, and unsure if someone has pulled the fucking plug in the pool." coward with no ambition in life | |||
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"Yes we leave then as Brits we make it work,of course there will be a cost,but it is the long term good,there is also a cost if we stay,that is called bankrupsy simple I think you will find that the UK was in absolutely no danger of bankruptcy as members of the EU, quite the opposite in fact, very reasonable growth compared to many western countries.....Leaving however is like stepping off a diving board with a blindfold on, and unsure if someone has pulled the fucking plug in the pool.coward with no ambition in life" What? | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? " You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. " You are delusional, dont you remember dennis healy having to beg the imf to bail us out and the winter of discontent from from callaghan and just how much debt brown left us with | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. You are delusional, dont you remember dennis healy having to beg the imf to bail us out and the winter of discontent from from callaghan and just how much debt brown left us with " brown had 4 years of budget surplus before the crash of 08, not bad considering previous Tory governments had only managed it twice since Thatcher came to power.. fully accepting that it went south post 08, but there is nothing to say that the global crash would have had the same effects with a Tory chancellor.. Cameron's and Osborne's economic 'policy' has been a mess, so much so that the new pair in number 10 and 11 have started to rip it up.. | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now !" No.. 
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now !" Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. " The economy seems to be in a good state to me . Have you seen the number of new coffee shops openening up. ? In addition we have low rates of unemployment . We can be greatfull to David Cameron for leaving a great legacy | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy "And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods . | |||
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"Yawn" | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. You are delusional, dont you remember dennis healy having to beg the imf to bail us out and the winter of discontent from from callaghan and just how much debt brown left us with brown had 4 years of budget surplus before the crash of 08, not bad considering previous Tory governments had only managed it twice since Thatcher came to power.. fully accepting that it went south post 08, but there is nothing to say that the global crash would have had the same effects with a Tory chancellor.. Cameron's and Osborne's economic 'policy' has been a mess, so much so that the new pair in number 10 and 11 have started to rip it up.." I tbought that David Cameron left office with very low rates of unemployment and a booming economy . He was a true man of the people who allowed us to determine our future by holding the referendum. You can hardly get fairer than that. | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. The economy seems to be in a good state to me . Have you seen the number of new coffee shops openening up. ? In addition we have low rates of unemployment . We can be greatfull to David Cameron for leaving a great legacy " Camerons economic policy was a mess Pat, look at how much the debt has increased to.. oh and May and Hammond clearly disagree with Cameron and Osborne given theyre ripping it up.. coffee shops.. pmsl.. | |||
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"does this mean everytime we get a labour government we can have a revote because they always fuck the economy ? You do. They don't. Erm, the Tories have managed to fuck services up as usual AND the economy to an unprecedented degree. Now they are having to abandon their policies and adopt Labour ones. You are delusional, dont you remember dennis healy having to beg the imf to bail us out and the winter of discontent from from callaghan and just how much debt brown left us with brown had 4 years of budget surplus before the crash of 08, not bad considering previous Tory governments had only managed it twice since Thatcher came to power.. fully accepting that it went south post 08, but there is nothing to say that the global crash would have had the same effects with a Tory chancellor.. Cameron's and Osborne's economic 'policy' has been a mess, so much so that the new pair in number 10 and 11 have started to rip it up.. I tbought that David Cameron left office with very low rates of unemployment and a booming economy . He was a true man of the people who allowed us to determine our future by holding the referendum. You can hardly get fairer than that." we all know what thought did.. ah the 'he was a man of the people' line.. meaningless cliche.. with no foundation.. | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods . "You are seriously saying that leaving would not have any impact on our economy? Seriously? Let's just take a very simple personal purchase example. I go onto eBay and I decide to purchase something, say a replacement part for my car. There are two sellers selling it, one in the EU, and one outside (e.g. in the US). Actually the US one is slightly cheaper. But I don't buy that, because last time I bought an item from the US, it got stuck in customs, and I got charged import duty on it, VAT, and then a handling fee from the courier for the privilege. So what was meant to be something that cost £24, I'd then have the £8 Royal Mail handling fee on top, then 20% VAT... so a total of £38. That is why I always try to buy things within the EU so I don't get these extra charges. So now think that you live in France and are doing the same thing post-brexit. You see an item for sale in the UK, and the same item for sale in Germany... you are going to go for the German one as it won't have fees added on like the above example. That is just a personal example. Now scale that up to all the small businesses that trade across the channel. Then scale that up even further to the big industries with complex supply chains with items coming in and out of the country to be assembled and sold. You still think that leaving the EU is going to have no effect on our economy? -Matt | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods . "I went through this with you about 17 times last weekend on here. You just dont understand enough about the situation to explain this to. Its like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old. But as the saying goes, God loves a trier and once more Ill explain this as simply as I possibly can. The EU is fighting for survival. The best way to guarantee its survival is to give the UK a shitty deal so no one else is tempted to leave. People buy your products because their priced competitively. If the people would pay a 17% premium for UK goods they'd already charge that price. The cost of UK goods could increase by 17% if thats the tarriff the EU decides on. Yes the EU will lose a big part of the UK market as the UK will likely match the tarriffs (increasing them would just mean the EU increases theirs too). But the financial centre will move to EU because they are not going to pay 17% of their profits in tax if they dont have to. And yes EU wages are less than UK wages, youre the 4th highest in the EU. Motor industry will do the same and so will other industries. Lower wages, saving 17% on their profits and cheaper rents are all good reasons for companies to move. The EU will lose a lot of the UK market but we'll get all those financial, motor industry and other jobs. We'll also be able to increase employment in supporting industries. So our social spending decreases, out unemployment goes down, our income tax revenue goes up and out corporation tax revenue goes up. So why did we want you to say I hear you furiously type. Because although we're just fine without you economically. We wanted a united security front especially when Russia is getting aggressive, we wanted free movement and trade theoughout the EU because they believe it promotes understanding and unity and decreases the threat of war. The past 60 years have been unprecedently peacefull for EU members. We are also a larger economic block to negotiate trade deals with others like the US or China and a bigger political player. But you've already taken the free movement, the united political stance, the negotiating power and other things that made you a valuable partner. With Brexit they are gone. There is no way for it to be Brexit and us to still have those things. And now you want us to agree a deal that could end the EU and give you all the financial benefits and in return you offer us....what? Access to your market? We dont care. In public companies will say they value their British customers because thats public relations 101. Want an example? BMW and Mercedes have said they want to do everything to protect the UK market access. And yet the german car manufacturers association has come out and said they have no interest in defending the British market. See people like you will believe BMW because you cant make the link between BMW and the association they have a hand in running, nor can you make the link from BMW to all the other brands they make who are competing with UK cars. And when those UK cars have a 17% tarriff and BMW other brands dont, they will take your market share. The reason the EU is pushing for article 50 as soon as possible and the UK is holding off is because everyone knows youre fucked. We're ready to negotiate because we have all the leverage and you have none. You have nothing to offer because you already took everything of value off the table. And your market share compared to the EU market share is nothing worth talking about. We might come out financially ahead, in fact probably will, whether or not you end up in the worst recession in 70 years or not will be decided by our goodwill. You're just not smart enough to see it. | |||
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"I don't care about an Agreement ! Let's do it and let the E U come to us ! And they will !" No we wont, see my post above to see the many many reasons that wont happen. The british market is to the EU as Newcastle is to the UK. Nice to have but if Newcastle formed their own country the rest of the UK would carry on just fine. | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods .
I went through this with you about 17 times last weekend on here.
You just dont understand enough about the situation to explain this to. Its like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old.
But as the saying goes, God loves a trier and once more Ill explain this as simply as I possibly can.
The EU is fighting for survival. The best way to guarantee its survival is to give the UK a shitty deal so no one else is tempted to leave. People buy your products because their priced competitively. If the people would pay a 17% premium for UK goods they'd already charge that price. The cost of UK goods could increase by 17% if thats the tarriff the EU decides on. Yes the EU will lose a big part of the UK market as the UK will likely match the tarriffs (increasing them would just mean the EU increases theirs too).
But the financial centre will move to EU because they are not going to pay 17% of their profits in tax if they dont have to. And yes EU wages are less than UK wages, youre the 4th highest in the EU. Motor industry will do the same and so will other industries. Lower wages, saving 17% on their profits and cheaper rents are all good reasons for companies to move.
The EU will lose a lot of the UK market but we'll get all those financial, motor industry and other jobs. We'll also be able to increase employment in supporting industries. So our social spending decreases, out unemployment goes down, our income tax revenue goes up and out corporation tax revenue goes up.
So why did we want you to say I hear you furiously type. Because although we're just fine without you economically. We wanted a united security front especially when Russia is getting aggressive, we wanted free movement and trade theoughout the EU because they believe it promotes understanding and unity and decreases the threat of war. The past 60 years have been unprecedently peacefull for EU members. We are also a larger economic block to negotiate trade deals with others like the US or China and a bigger political player.
But you've already taken the free movement, the united political stance, the negotiating power and other things that made you a valuable partner. With Brexit they are gone. There is no way for it to be Brexit and us to still have those things. And now you want us to agree a deal that could end the EU and give you all the financial benefits and in return you offer us....what? Access to your market? We dont care. In public companies will say they value their British customers because thats public relations 101. Want an example? BMW and Mercedes have said they want to do everything to protect the UK market access. And yet the german car manufacturers association has come out and said they have no interest in defending the British market.
See people like you will believe BMW because you cant make the link between BMW and the association they have a hand in running, nor can you make the link from BMW to all the other brands they make who are competing with UK cars. And when those UK cars have a 17% tarriff and BMW other brands dont, they will take your market share.
The reason the EU is pushing for article 50 as soon as possible and the UK is holding off is because everyone knows youre fucked. We're ready to negotiate because we have all the leverage and you have none. You have nothing to offer because you already took everything of value off the table. And your market share compared to the EU market share is nothing worth talking about. We might come out financially ahead, in fact probably will, whether or not you end up in the worst recession in 70 years or not will be decided by our goodwill.
You're just not smart enough to see it."I think maybe you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else  | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods .
You are seriously saying that leaving would not have any impact on our economy? Seriously?
Let's just take a very simple personal purchase example. I go onto eBay and I decide to purchase something, say a replacement part for my car. There are two sellers selling it, one in the EU, and one outside (e.g. in the US). Actually the US one is slightly cheaper. But I don't buy that, because last time I bought an item from the US, it got stuck in customs, and I got charged import duty on it, VAT, and then a handling fee from the courier for the privilege. So what was meant to be something that cost £24, I'd then have the £8 Royal Mail handling fee on top, then 20% VAT... so a total of £38. That is why I always try to buy things within the EU so I don't get these extra charges.
So now think that you live in France and are doing the same thing post-brexit. You see an item for sale in the UK, and the same item for sale in Germany... you are going to go for the German one as it won't have fees added on like the above example.
That is just a personal example. Now scale that up to all the small businesses that trade across the channel. Then scale that up even further to the big industries with complex supply chains with items coming in and out of the country to be assembled and sold.
You still think that leaving the EU is going to have no effect on our economy?
-Matt" Who said that there would be any import or export duties?. In any event they all cancel out anyway.
Some people seem obsessed with duties and think tbat we cannot negotiate a good deal
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8 out of Forumla 1 racing teams are based here and that is because of our excellence .
If the grim scenario that some peope predict was likely to happen , share prices would have collapsed .
The negative attitude of remainers is potentially damaging our economy . It is only because of those who wish to remain are we in a potentially weak position.
I prefer to take a postive approach and be proud of out countries strenghts , not to be constantly running it down . | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods .
I went through this with you about 17 times last weekend on here.
You just dont understand enough about the situation to explain this to. Its like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old.
But as the saying goes, God loves a trier and once more Ill explain this as simply as I possibly can.
The EU is fighting for survival. The best way to guarantee its survival is to give the UK a shitty deal so no one else is tempted to leave. People buy your products because their priced competitively. If the people would pay a 17% premium for UK goods they'd already charge that price. The cost of UK goods could increase by 17% if thats the tarriff the EU decides on. Yes the EU will lose a big part of the UK market as the UK will likely match the tarriffs (increasing them would just mean the EU increases theirs too).
But the financial centre will move to EU because they are not going to pay 17% of their profits in tax if they dont have to. And yes EU wages are less than UK wages, youre the 4th highest in the EU. Motor industry will do the same and so will other industries. Lower wages, saving 17% on their profits and cheaper rents are all good reasons for companies to move.
The EU will lose a lot of the UK market but we'll get all those financial, motor industry and other jobs. We'll also be able to increase employment in supporting industries. So our social spending decreases, out unemployment goes down, our income tax revenue goes up and out corporation tax revenue goes up.
So why did we want you to say I hear you furiously type. Because although we're just fine without you economically. We wanted a united security front especially when Russia is getting aggressive, we wanted free movement and trade theoughout the EU because they believe it promotes understanding and unity and decreases the threat of war. The past 60 years have been unprecedently peacefull for EU members. We are also a larger economic block to negotiate trade deals with others like the US or China and a bigger political player.
But you've already taken the free movement, the united political stance, the negotiating power and other things that made you a valuable partner. With Brexit they are gone. There is no way for it to be Brexit and us to still have those things. And now you want us to agree a deal that could end the EU and give you all the financial benefits and in return you offer us....what? Access to your market? We dont care. In public companies will say they value their British customers because thats public relations 101. Want an example? BMW and Mercedes have said they want to do everything to protect the UK market access. And yet the german car manufacturers association has come out and said they have no interest in defending the British market.
See people like you will believe BMW because you cant make the link between BMW and the association they have a hand in running, nor can you make the link from BMW to all the other brands they make who are competing with UK cars. And when those UK cars have a 17% tarriff and BMW other brands dont, they will take your market share.
The reason the EU is pushing for article 50 as soon as possible and the UK is holding off is because everyone knows youre fucked. We're ready to negotiate because we have all the leverage and you have none. You have nothing to offer because you already took everything of value off the table. And your market share compared to the EU market share is nothing worth talking about. We might come out financially ahead, in fact probably will, whether or not you end up in the worst recession in 70 years or not will be decided by our goodwill.
You're just not smart enough to see it."Thanks for the explanation and time taken to write it . However I do not agree with any of it . What surprises me on here is that the remainers seem to expect people to agree with their posts regardless . Whilst you are entitled to an opinion referring to someone with who you disagree as a five year old is rather patronising . The banks are unlikely to move as employment costs are higher abroad . Maybe also look at all the new office blocks being built in the City of London. It is booming with confidence . | |||
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" However I do not agree with any of it . What surprises me on here is that the remainers seem to expect people to agree with their posts regardless . Whilst you are entitled to an opinion referring to someone with who you disagree as a five year old is rather patronising . The banks are unlikely to move as employment costs are higher abroad . Maybe also look at all the new office blocks being built in the City of London. It is booming with confidence . " But it doesnt matter if you agree or not. Facts are facts. Employment costs arent higher abroad. Theyre cheaper. Britain has the 4th highest pay levels of any EU country and all the countries lobbying for the financial companies are cheaper. Buildings were being built right up until the last crash happened too. Thats a meaningless point to hang your hat on. As are share prices because theyre short term. And bank costs of moving will mean saving a billion or 2 in taxes. If you offered thise companies 2 billion to move country and thats billion with a B they would be gone in a heart beat. Know how I know? Because they moved to London to save even less money. American companies didnt move to London so they could pay a 17% tax to do business in the EU. And British companies will move sizeable amounts of staff to other coubtries too because any ceo standing in front of their shareholders saying that everyone lost 17% of their money because they wanted to stay in Britain would be sacked. | |||
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" Who said that there would be any import or export duties?. In any event they all cancel out anyway. Some people seem obsessed with duties and think tbat we cannot negotiate a good deal . 8 out of Forumla 1 racing teams are based here and that is because of our excellence . If the grim scenario that some peope predict was likely to happen , share prices would have collapsed . The negative attitude of remainers is potentially damaging our economy . It is only because of those who wish to remain are we in a potentially weak position. I prefer to take a postive approach and be proud of out countries strenghts , not to be constantly running it down ." It has been explained to you several times already. The duties do not cancel each other out. Read the scenario I put above. How does me having to pay extra duties and handling changes in any way get cancelled out for me personally? It doesn't. So it is going to affect my decision as to where I buy my goods from. If I were a business buying in goods I'm not going to think "Oh great, that extra 17% duty is going to bolster the economy, yay!"... no, I'm going to buy my goods from a neighbouring country I don't have to pay that duty. I WANT our country to succeed. I'm not trying to talk it down. I'm just trying to be vaguely realistic. Once we trigger article 50 we have 2 years in which to negotiate reams and reams of treaties, policies, etc etc. 2 years. That is it. This from a government that has taken, what, nearly 6 months now and still apparently hasn't a clue what it is doing. I AM proud of our country. I want it to be a good country. I want it to be a great country. But at the moment all I see is it walking towards a cliff with no idea of what is going to happen once we go off that cliff. -Matt | |||
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" Who said that there would be any import or export duties?. In any event they all cancel out anyway. Some people seem obsessed with duties and think tbat we cannot negotiate a good deal . 8 out of Forumla 1 racing teams are based here and that is because of our excellence . If the grim scenario that some peope predict was likely to happen , share prices would have collapsed . The negative attitude of remainers is potentially damaging our economy . It is only because of those who wish to remain are we in a potentially weak position. I prefer to take a postive approach and be proud of out countries strenghts , not to be constantly running it down . It has been explained to you several times already. The duties do not cancel each other out. Read the scenario I put above. How does me having to pay extra duties and handling changes in any way get cancelled out for me personally? It doesn't. So it is going to affect my decision as to where I buy my goods from. If I were a business buying in goods I'm not going to think "Oh great, that extra 17% duty is going to bolster the economy, yay!"... no, I'm going to buy my goods from a neighbouring country I don't have to pay that duty. I WANT our country to succeed. I'm not trying to talk it down. I'm just trying to be vaguely realistic. Once we trigger article 50 we have 2 years in which to negotiate reams and reams of treaties, policies, etc etc. 2 years. That is it. This from a government that has taken, what, nearly 6 months now and still apparently hasn't a clue what it is doing. I AM proud of our country. I want it to be a good country. I want it to be a great country. But at the moment all I see is it walking towards a cliff with no idea of what is going to happen once we go off that cliff. -Matt" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly ." And what are we going into that negotiation with? Considering these kinds of deals take on average much longer than 2 years to complete. Why would the EU, after we've just indicated we want to leave, be prepared to give a deal without all the, so called, bad bits like freedom of movement? And for the record, I'm not obsessed with duties, I was merely responding to your point that "people will still want to buy our stuff". -Matt | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly ." Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . And what are we going into that negotiation with? Considering these kinds of deals take on average much longer than 2 years to complete. Why would the EU, after we've just indicated we want to leave, be prepared to give a deal without all the, so called, bad bits like freedom of movement? And for the record, I'm not obsessed with duties, I was merely responding to your point that "people will still want to buy our stuff". -Matt" Just because the government hasn't released any plan on Brexit that doesn't mean there is no plan. It's been 5 months now since the result of the referendum so the plan for Brexit i would say is in an advanced stage of development behind the scenes, and as article 50 won't be triggered until March 2017 that still gives the government another 3 months to work on the plan and develop it more. The vote in parliament today said Parliament would vote to trigger article 50 as long as details of the plan are released before March 31st 2017 so I expect that to happen. Parliament voted 448 in favour and only 75 against today, this gives great reassurance article 50 will be triggered before the end of March as long as the government releases at least a 5 point plan for Brexit. The EU negotiator said the other day the exit negotiations must take less than 2 years and he said it must be done in 18 months. As a leave supporter I think it's better if it's shorter the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned. I just watched press preview on sky news and they were saying that a transitional arrangement for leaving the EU could be done in 18 months then we would gradually push to full departure over a number of years which would give more stability for business both here and in the EU. Of course will have to see how it all pans out though but I'm very happy about the vote in Parliament today and the government's timetable for Brexit seems to be on track. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU."  I am at a total loss as to the rekevance of tbe cities referred to. We are the third largest net contributor to the EU. The EU have more to lose than the UK. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. I am at a total loss as to the rekevance of tbe cities referred to. We are the third largest net contributor to the EU. The EU have more to lose than the UK. "See the fundamental problem is that you think the UK is a vital part of the economics of the EU which its not. You pay in more but a lot of that goes back to you in direct payments and in indirect ways. Such as science grants. My point is this: Newcastle gives more to the government than they receive. Just like the UK does to the EU. Newcastle is an important section of the economy as a producer and a consumer. Just like the UK is in the EU. If Newcastle broke away on its own the rest of England would not beg Newcastle to trade with them or let them dictate terms. In fact England would be more concerned with keeping England as a united country than they would about any short term economic benefits. In the Newcastle example they are the Uk and the Uk is the Eu. The Eu will not be dictated to by the Uk because the Uk is not a crucial part of the Eu. If you think of the idea of Newcastle breaking away from England as not that big of a deal then you have some understanding of the indifference of the Eu to the Uk being in the single market. What was valuable about your membership is already gone from the table. We want the negotiations over with which is why we keep pressuring you to get started. The Uk keeps trying to delay it because, and I believe this is a legal term, they are mega-fucked. You've zero leverage in this situation. If the Eu refuses to trade with you thats fine for us because we have great trade deals internationally and free trade with each other. If the Uk refuses to trade with the Eu all thise companies trading in the Eu send those jobs to the Eu. We win if we get the deal we want, we win if theres no deal. Thats leverage. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. I am at a total loss as to the rekevance of tbe cities referred to. We are the third largest net contributor to the EU. The EU have more to lose than the UK.
See the fundamental problem is that you think the UK is a vital part of the economics of the EU which its not.
You pay in more but a lot of that goes back to you in direct payments and in indirect ways. Such as science grants.
My point is this: Newcastle gives more to the government than they receive. Just like the UK does to the EU. Newcastle is an important section of the economy as a producer and a consumer. Just like the UK is in the EU. If Newcastle broke away on its own the rest of England would not beg Newcastle to trade with them or let them dictate terms. In fact England would be more concerned with keeping England as a united country than they would about any short term economic benefits.
In the Newcastle example they are the Uk and the Uk is the Eu.
The Eu will not be dictated to by the Uk because the Uk is not a crucial part of the Eu.
If you think of the idea of Newcastle breaking away from England as not that big of a deal then you have some understanding of the indifference of the Eu to the Uk being in the single market. What was valuable about your membership is already gone from the table.
We want the negotiations over with which is why we keep pressuring you to get started. The Uk keeps trying to delay it because, and I believe this is a legal term, they are mega-fucked.
You've zero leverage in this situation. If the Eu refuses to trade with you thats fine for us because we have great trade deals internationally and free trade with each other. If the Uk refuses to trade with the Eu all thise companies trading in the Eu send those jobs to the Eu. We win if we get the deal we want, we win if theres no deal. Thats leverage."If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. I am at a total loss as to the rekevance of tbe cities referred to. We are the third largest net contributor to the EU. The EU have more to lose than the UK.
See the fundamental problem is that you think the UK is a vital part of the economics of the EU which its not.
You pay in more but a lot of that goes back to you in direct payments and in indirect ways. Such as science grants.
My point is this: Newcastle gives more to the government than they receive. Just like the UK does to the EU. Newcastle is an important section of the economy as a producer and a consumer. Just like the UK is in the EU. If Newcastle broke away on its own the rest of England would not beg Newcastle to trade with them or let them dictate terms. In fact England would be more concerned with keeping England as a united country than they would about any short term economic benefits.
In the Newcastle example they are the Uk and the Uk is the Eu.
The Eu will not be dictated to by the Uk because the Uk is not a crucial part of the Eu.
If you think of the idea of Newcastle breaking away from England as not that big of a deal then you have some understanding of the indifference of the Eu to the Uk being in the single market. What was valuable about your membership is already gone from the table.
We want the negotiations over with which is why we keep pressuring you to get started. The Uk keeps trying to delay it because, and I believe this is a legal term, they are mega-fucked.
You've zero leverage in this situation. If the Eu refuses to trade with you thats fine for us because we have great trade deals internationally and free trade with each other. If the Uk refuses to trade with the Eu all thise companies trading in the Eu send those jobs to the Eu. We win if we get the deal we want, we win if theres no deal. Thats leverage."I'd love to know what these great trade deals are that you have internationally? Switzerland alone has more and better trade deals around the world than the EU does | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. I am at a total loss as to the rekevance of tbe cities referred to. We are the third largest net contributor to the EU. The EU have more to lose than the UK.
See the fundamental problem is that you think the UK is a vital part of the economics of the EU which its not.
You pay in more but a lot of that goes back to you in direct payments and in indirect ways. Such as science grants.
My point is this: Newcastle gives more to the government than they receive. Just like the UK does to the EU. Newcastle is an important section of the economy as a producer and a consumer. Just like the UK is in the EU. If Newcastle broke away on its own the rest of England would not beg Newcastle to trade with them or let them dictate terms. In fact England would be more concerned with keeping England as a united country than they would about any short term economic benefits.
In the Newcastle example they are the Uk and the Uk is the Eu.
The Eu will not be dictated to by the Uk because the Uk is not a crucial part of the Eu.
If you think of the idea of Newcastle breaking away from England as not that big of a deal then you have some understanding of the indifference of the Eu to the Uk being in the single market. What was valuable about your membership is already gone from the table.
We want the negotiations over with which is why we keep pressuring you to get started. The Uk keeps trying to delay it because, and I believe this is a legal term, they are mega-fucked.
You've zero leverage in this situation. If the Eu refuses to trade with you thats fine for us because we have great trade deals internationally and free trade with each other. If the Uk refuses to trade with the Eu all thise companies trading in the Eu send those jobs to the Eu. We win if we get the deal we want, we win if theres no deal. Thats leverage.
If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite).
If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market.
That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle.
Very poor analogy."The voice of common sense . At least you live in the real.world..  | |||
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" If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy." We have a very diverse range of trading partners and the UK is 8% of our total export market. The EU is 44% of your export market. The trade deficit between the two is only £70 billion. So you lose out on a £220 billion market and we lose out on a £290 billion market. We can easily afford to lose £70 billion / 8%. It would be better to keep it but we can afford it, especially given the fact that we'll take on the bulk of your financial services industry. No country or organisation can afford to lose 44% of its trade though. 44% is devastating to an economy. You are Newcastle to the EU. Your market is nice to have but not crucial. We are crucial to your economic survival. We can enter negotiations with you and lose your trade completely and survive. You will suffer a recession that makes the last one look pleasant. But Im sure you'll continue to ignore the facts. You'll tell yourself that 8% is somehow more important than 44%. That British goods and services are so much better that even a 17% price increase wont dull demand. That financial service companies will sacrifice billions in profit to pay higher rents and higher wages in London because British is best for some unidentifiable reason. If you still think youre more valuable to us than we are to you at this stage.... | |||
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" The voice of common sense . At least you live in the real.world.. "No the analogy is pretty correct. The UK is 8% of our export market. If we lose that we can mitigate our losses by replacing British goods with EU goods which will make up for 6%. So overall we lose 2% of our export market. But then we also gain your financial services centre and various other companies that need to operate in the EU so we'll come out ahead. You on the otherhand will lose 44% of your export market and see rising unemployment. When you join us in the real world I hope its not to late to rescue your economy from collapse. | |||
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" If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy. We have a very diverse range of trading partners and the UK is 8% of our total export market. The EU is 44% of your export market. The trade deficit between the two is only £70 billion. So you lose out on a £220 billion market and we lose out on a £290 billion market. We can easily afford to lose £70 billion / 8%. It would be better to keep it but we can afford it, especially given the fact that we'll take on the bulk of your financial services industry. No country or organisation can afford to lose 44% of its trade though. 44% is devastating to an economy. You are Newcastle to the EU. Your market is nice to have but not crucial. We are crucial to your economic survival. We can enter negotiations with you and lose your trade completely and survive. You will suffer a recession that makes the last one look pleasant. But Im sure you'll continue to ignore the facts. You'll tell yourself that 8% is somehow more important than 44%. That British goods and services are so much better that even a 17% price increase wont dull demand. That financial service companies will sacrifice billions in profit to pay higher rents and higher wages in London because British is best for some unidentifiable reason. If you still think youre more valuable to us than we are to you at this stage...." You are wasting your time. I actually think the time is right for people to get what they wanted and just accept it and live with it. People with money and intuition will have been given 9 months by PM May to position themselves in a way to mitigate the negative financial effects of Brexit. The most socially immobile and those at the lower end of the income scale who voted overwhelmingly to leave have little that they can do to cushion themselves, but maybe that is for the better. It is about time that people learned to live with consequences of their decisions. My very selfish view now is to charge full steam ahead into a hard Brexit and see what happens. I am no longer dependant on anything in the UK to earn my living and so I am not really bothered anymore. Either the poor and socially immobile will suddenly and miraculously morph into a wealthy middle class or they will suffer hideously through a Brexit related recession. I hope they get what they thought Brexit would give them and that the UK does make a success of Brexit. If that doesn't happen, well they need to have the experience of living with the consequences of their decisions. | |||
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" If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy. We have a very diverse range of trading partners and the UK is 8% of our total export market. The EU is 44% of your export market. The trade deficit between the two is only £70 billion. So you lose out on a £220 billion market and we lose out on a £290 billion market. We can easily afford to lose £70 billion / 8%. It would be better to keep it but we can afford it, especially given the fact that we'll take on the bulk of your financial services industry. No country or organisation can afford to lose 44% of its trade though. 44% is devastating to an economy. You are Newcastle to the EU. Your market is nice to have but not crucial. We are crucial to your economic survival. We can enter negotiations with you and lose your trade completely and survive. You will suffer a recession that makes the last one look pleasant. But Im sure you'll continue to ignore the facts. You'll tell yourself that 8% is somehow more important than 44%. That British goods and services are so much better that even a 17% price increase wont dull demand. That financial service companies will sacrifice billions in profit to pay higher rents and higher wages in London because British is best for some unidentifiable reason. If you still think youre more valuable to us than we are to you at this stage.... You are wasting your time. I actually think the time is right for people to get what they wanted and just accept it and live with it. People with money and intuition will have been given 9 months by PM May to position themselves in a way to mitigate the negative financial effects of Brexit. The most socially immobile and those at the lower end of the income scale who voted overwhelmingly to leave have little that they can do to cushion themselves, but maybe that is for the better. It is about time that people learned to live with consequences of their decisions. My very selfish view now is to charge full steam ahead into a hard Brexit and see what happens. I am no longer dependant on anything in the UK to earn my living and so I am not really bothered anymore. Either the poor and socially immobile will suddenly and miraculously morph into a wealthy middle class or they will suffer hideously through a Brexit related recession. I hope they get what they thought Brexit would give them and that the UK does make a success of Brexit. If that doesn't happen, well they need to have the experience of living with the consequences of their decisions. " Ah, of course. It was them stoopid poor folk who voted Brexit. God bless 'em, they couldn't have known any better, could they? Please, sir, can I have some more? | |||
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" If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy. We have a very diverse range of trading partners and the UK is 8% of our total export market. The EU is 44% of your export market. The trade deficit between the two is only £70 billion. So you lose out on a £220 billion market and we lose out on a £290 billion market. We can easily afford to lose £70 billion / 8%. It would be better to keep it but we can afford it, especially given the fact that we'll take on the bulk of your financial services industry. No country or organisation can afford to lose 44% of its trade though. 44% is devastating to an economy. You are Newcastle to the EU. Your market is nice to have but not crucial. We are crucial to your economic survival. We can enter negotiations with you and lose your trade completely and survive. You will suffer a recession that makes the last one look pleasant. But Im sure you'll continue to ignore the facts. You'll tell yourself that 8% is somehow more important than 44%. That British goods and services are so much better that even a 17% price increase wont dull demand. That financial service companies will sacrifice billions in profit to pay higher rents and higher wages in London because British is best for some unidentifiable reason. If you still think youre more valuable to us than we are to you at this stage.... You are wasting your time. I actually think the time is right for people to get what they wanted and just accept it and live with it. People with money and intuition will have been given 9 months by PM May to position themselves in a way to mitigate the negative financial effects of Brexit. The most socially immobile and those at the lower end of the income scale who voted overwhelmingly to leave have little that they can do to cushion themselves, but maybe that is for the better. It is about time that people learned to live with consequences of their decisions. My very selfish view now is to charge full steam ahead into a hard Brexit and see what happens. I am no longer dependant on anything in the UK to earn my living and so I am not really bothered anymore. Either the poor and socially immobile will suddenly and miraculously morph into a wealthy middle class or they will suffer hideously through a Brexit related recession. I hope they get what they thought Brexit would give them and that the UK does make a success of Brexit. If that doesn't happen, well they need to have the experience of living with the consequences of their decisions. " I think everybody already has that experience which is why the majority wisely chose the way they did | |||
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" I think everybody already has that experience which is why the majority wisely chose the way they did" Yeah, OK then... fuck 'em. They are already dealing with increased cost of living and lowering of real-terms wages. Food banks use is on the increase further. Who gives a crap if they get fucked some more. As we all know, when the squeeze comes, the poor *always* come out smelling like roses. -Matt | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position." And I love it when the Remainers refuse to justify their position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it they are going to try to force themselves into a terrible position. | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position." Lol, you make the EU sound like the land of milk and honey. Look at what is happening, the EU is crumbling before our eyes, the only continent that has lower growth than the EU is Antarctica, many EU economies are basket cases as a result of joining the doomed euro (Greece, Portugal, etc and now it seems Italy is teetering on the brink after the referendum vote there last weekend). Unemployment at record highs in countries like Spain and Greece, etc. The EU has serious problems but it appears you refuse to acknowledge it and continue to put your fingers in your ears singing "La la la la la la". The EU could well completely collapse before we even get chance to Brexit over the next 2 years the way it's looking and you want us to stay part of this shitstorm? The EU has had it, and the only direction the EU is going from here is downhill. You are not the only game in town and with the election of Trump we can get a great trade deal with the USA, plus many other high growth economies around the world such as India. Britain also has many commonwealth links and commonwealth countries like Australia are already chomping at the bit to do deals with us when we leave. If Britain is so insignificant as you obviously think we are then why are you trying so hard to convince us to stay in the EU in this thread and other threads? Britain is leaving the EU so get used to it. Maybe your time would be better spent trying to convince the French not to elect Marine Le Pen and for Germany not to go with the AFD party because if those 2 get in next year it really is curtains for the EU. | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position." Maybe you should speak to McDonalds
They are moving headquarters from Luxemburg to the UK which means that they will be paying tax on profits made outside the U.S. in the UK. One of many I would suggest. Apple next? | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU." Poppycock! Newcastle makes great brown ale and they'll be falling over themselves to buy it at the new higher price. Newcastle holds the all the bargaining power   | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. Poppycock! Newcastle makes great brown ale and they'll be falling over themselves to buy it at the new higher price. Newcastle holds the all the bargaining power "I am afraid that Newcastle stopped making brown ale many years ago. | |||
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" If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy. We have a very diverse range of trading partners and the UK is 8% of our total export market. The EU is 44% of your export market. The trade deficit between the two is only £70 billion. So you lose out on a £220 billion market and we lose out on a £290 billion market. We can easily afford to lose £70 billion / 8%. It would be better to keep it but we can afford it, especially given the fact that we'll take on the bulk of your financial services industry. No country or organisation can afford to lose 44% of its trade though. 44% is devastating to an economy. You are Newcastle to the EU. Your market is nice to have but not crucial. We are crucial to your economic survival. We can enter negotiations with you and lose your trade completely and survive. You will suffer a recession that makes the last one look pleasant. But Im sure you'll continue to ignore the facts. You'll tell yourself that 8% is somehow more important than 44%. That British goods and services are so much better that even a 17% price increase wont dull demand. That financial service companies will sacrifice billions in profit to pay higher rents and higher wages in London because British is best for some unidentifiable reason. If you still think youre more valuable to us than we are to you at this stage.... You are wasting your time. I actually think the time is right for people to get what they wanted and just accept it and live with it. People with money and intuition will have been given 9 months by PM May to position themselves in a way to mitigate the negative financial effects of Brexit. The most socially immobile and those at the lower end of the income scale who voted overwhelmingly to leave have little that they can do to cushion themselves, but maybe that is for the better. It is about time that people learned to live with consequences of their decisions. My very selfish view now is to charge full steam ahead into a hard Brexit and see what happens. I am no longer dependant on anything in the UK to earn my living and so I am not really bothered anymore. Either the poor and socially immobile will suddenly and miraculously morph into a wealthy middle class or they will suffer hideously through a Brexit related recession. I hope they get what they thought Brexit would give them and that the UK does make a success of Brexit. If that doesn't happen, well they need to have the experience of living with the consequences of their decisions. " I would tend to agree apart from the fact that most were manipulated into the vote | |||
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" If the UK breaks away from the EU, then UK is the EU's biggest single export market (re: Full fact webaite). If Newcastle breaks away from the UK, Newcastle would not be the UK's biggest single 'export' market. That is why Newcastle would not be important to the UK, and why the UK would not worry too much about doing a deal with Newcastle. Very poor analogy. We have a very diverse range of trading partners and the UK is 8% of our total export market. The EU is 44% of your export market. The trade deficit between the two is only £70 billion. So you lose out on a £220 billion market and we lose out on a £290 billion market. We can easily afford to lose £70 billion / 8%. It would be better to keep it but we can afford it, especially given the fact that we'll take on the bulk of your financial services industry. No country or organisation can afford to lose 44% of its trade though. 44% is devastating to an economy. You are Newcastle to the EU. Your market is nice to have but not crucial. We are crucial to your economic survival. We can enter negotiations with you and lose your trade completely and survive. You will suffer a recession that makes the last one look pleasant. But Im sure you'll continue to ignore the facts. You'll tell yourself that 8% is somehow more important than 44%. That British goods and services are so much better that even a 17% price increase wont dull demand. That financial service companies will sacrifice billions in profit to pay higher rents and higher wages in London because British is best for some unidentifiable reason. If you still think youre more valuable to us than we are to you at this stage.... You are wasting your time. I actually think the time is right for people to get what they wanted and just accept it and live with it. People with money and intuition will have been given 9 months by PM May to position themselves in a way to mitigate the negative financial effects of Brexit. The most socially immobile and those at the lower end of the income scale who voted overwhelmingly to leave have little that they can do to cushion themselves, but maybe that is for the better. It is about time that people learned to live with consequences of their decisions. My very selfish view now is to charge full steam ahead into a hard Brexit and see what happens. I am no longer dependant on anything in the UK to earn my living and so I am not really bothered anymore. Either the poor and socially immobile will suddenly and miraculously morph into a wealthy middle class or they will suffer hideously through a Brexit related recession. I hope they get what they thought Brexit would give them and that the UK does make a success of Brexit. If that doesn't happen, well they need to have the experience of living with the consequences of their decisions. I would tend to agree apart from the fact that most were manipulated into the vote " No one was manipulated into a vote. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. Poppycock! Newcastle makes great brown ale and they'll be falling over themselves to buy it at the new higher price. Newcastle holds the all the bargaining power "Well, except Newcastle Brown hasn't been made up here for years. | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods .
I went through this with you about 17 times last weekend on here.
You just dont understand enough about the situation to explain this to. Its like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old.
But as the saying goes, God loves a trier and once more Ill explain this as simply as I possibly can.
The EU is fighting for survival. The best way to guarantee its survival is to give the UK a shitty deal so no one else is tempted to leave. People buy your products because their priced competitively. If the people would pay a 17% premium for UK goods they'd already charge that price. The cost of UK goods could increase by 17% if thats the tarriff the EU decides on. Yes the EU will lose a big part of the UK market as the UK will likely match the tarriffs (increasing them would just mean the EU increases theirs too).
But the financial centre will move to EU because they are not going to pay 17% of their profits in tax if they dont have to. And yes EU wages are less than UK wages, youre the 4th highest in the EU. Motor industry will do the same and so will other industries. Lower wages, saving 17% on their profits and cheaper rents are all good reasons for companies to move.
The EU will lose a lot of the UK market but we'll get all those financial, motor industry and other jobs. We'll also be able to increase employment in supporting industries. So our social spending decreases, out unemployment goes down, our income tax revenue goes up and out corporation tax revenue goes up.
So why did we want you to say I hear you furiously type. Because although we're just fine without you economically. We wanted a united security front especially when Russia is getting aggressive, we wanted free movement and trade theoughout the EU because they believe it promotes understanding and unity and decreases the threat of war. The past 60 years have been unprecedently peacefull for EU members. We are also a larger economic block to negotiate trade deals with others like the US or China and a bigger political player.
But you've already taken the free movement, the united political stance, the negotiating power and other things that made you a valuable partner. With Brexit they are gone. There is no way for it to be Brexit and us to still have those things. And now you want us to agree a deal that could end the EU and give you all the financial benefits and in return you offer us....what? Access to your market? We dont care. In public companies will say they value their British customers because thats public relations 101. Want an example? BMW and Mercedes have said they want to do everything to protect the UK market access. And yet the german car manufacturers association has come out and said they have no interest in defending the British market.
See people like you will believe BMW because you cant make the link between BMW and the association they have a hand in running, nor can you make the link from BMW to all the other brands they make who are competing with UK cars. And when those UK cars have a 17% tarriff and BMW other brands dont, they will take your market share.
The reason the EU is pushing for article 50 as soon as possible and the UK is holding off is because everyone knows youre fucked. We're ready to negotiate because we have all the leverage and you have none. You have nothing to offer because you already took everything of value off the table. And your market share compared to the EU market share is nothing worth talking about. We might come out financially ahead, in fact probably will, whether or not you end up in the worst recession in 70 years or not will be decided by our goodwill.
You're just not smart enough to see it."The trouble with your thinking is that tariffs are limited by WTO rules and in 2015 bmw sold 25% of their european made cars in the uk do you really think they dont care about the uk market ? The fall in the pound has already wiped out the maximum level of wto tariffs on cars. As for peace what has the EU done for reace against russia ? NATO has kept the peace not the EU. Perhaps improving your argument instead of insulting those who disagree might be a better way of changing opinions | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position. And I love it when the Remainers refuse to justify their position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it they are going to try to force themselves into a terrible position." Well, the remainers on here seem to be generally far better at supporting their arguments with facts and sources. The leavers just bang on the same old stuff with no evidence. | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position. And I love it when the Remainers refuse to justify their position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it they are going to try to force themselves into a terrible position. Well, the remainers on here seem to be generally far better at supporting their arguments with facts and sources. The leavers just bang on the same old stuff with no evidence." what evidence do remainers have? | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position. And I love it when the Remainers refuse to justify their position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it they are going to try to force themselves into a terrible position. Well, the remainers on here seem to be generally far better at supporting their arguments with facts and sources. The leavers just bang on the same old stuff with no evidence." Actually, quite the opposite. The Remainers rarely back up their pleas. They just say "But what did you mean?" Well, here is your opportunity. What did you mean? | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position. And I love it when the Remainers refuse to justify their position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it they are going to try to force themselves into a terrible position. Well, the remainers on here seem to be generally far better at supporting their arguments with facts and sources. The leavers just bang on the same old stuff with no evidence." Most of the remainers evidence is irrelevant and cherry picked . For me the true live real time evidence of performance is the stock market . As it is not concerned about Brexit , why would anyone else be. I prefer to live in the real world and disasociate with those who are obsessed wirh import or export duties. | |||
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"I like the way the pro-brexit crowd continuously ignore when their logic is shown to be wrong and still continues to back it as a smart move. Its a perfect example of the "biased assimilation effect" where people completely ignore all evidence against their chosen position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it their going to force themselves into a terrible position. And I love it when the Remainers refuse to justify their position. And in fact the more evidence against their position the more they dig in and refuse to change their views. The sad thing is that despite all the evidence against it they are going to try to force themselves into a terrible position. Well, the remainers on here seem to be generally far better at supporting their arguments with facts and sources. The leavers just bang on the same old stuff with no evidence." Most of the remainers evidence is irrelevant and cherry picked . For me the true live real time evidence of performance is the stock market . As it is not concerned about Brexit , why would anyone else be. I prefer to live in the real world and disasociate with those who are obsessed wirh import or export duties. | |||
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"Richard Corbett Labour MEP THERE IS NO MANDATE FOR A BREXIT THAT DESTROYS BRITAIN 'Those who consider that the British people have spoken clearly in favour of Brexit (and many don’t, given that it was an advisory referendum, won by a narrow majority, on the basis of lies and on a questionable franchise) must surely accept that any post-referendum mandate can only be for a Brexit that actually works for Britain, without sinking the economy, and which perhaps bears some resemblance to the promises made by the Leave campaign. 'If, instead, it becomes clear that we are heading towards a brutal, costly Brexit, there will be many who will have doubts about the advisability of proceeding. 'Of course, some people voted for Brexit at any cost. But others voted for Brexit at no cost, because that’s what they were told was possible (and even that we would gain, with proceeds going to the NHS). If, instead, it turns out to be costly – and the Autumn Statement showed that is already eye-wateringly expensive – then those people are entitled to a chance to reconsider.' " Same argument presented repeatedly before the referendum by the Remain campaign. Now disguised as the "soft Brexit...the people didnt know what they were voting for...voted for a departure not a destination...didn't vote to make themselves poorer.." utter bollocks that the public are growing increasingly fed up with. My message to MPs is simple. You will reap what you sow at the next general election. | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods .
I went through this with you about 17 times last weekend on here.
You just dont understand enough about the situation to explain this to. Its like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old.
But as the saying goes, God loves a trier and once more Ill explain this as simply as I possibly can.
The EU is fighting for survival. The best way to guarantee its survival is to give the UK a shitty deal so no one else is tempted to leave. People buy your products because their priced competitively. If the people would pay a 17% premium for UK goods they'd already charge that price. The cost of UK goods could increase by 17% if thats the tarriff the EU decides on. Yes the EU will lose a big part of the UK market as the UK will likely match the tarriffs (increasing them would just mean the EU increases theirs too).
But the financial centre will move to EU because they are not going to pay 17% of their profits in tax if they dont have to. And yes EU wages are less than UK wages, youre the 4th highest in the EU. Motor industry will do the same and so will other industries. Lower wages, saving 17% on their profits and cheaper rents are all good reasons for companies to move.
The EU will lose a lot of the UK market but we'll get all those financial, motor industry and other jobs. We'll also be able to increase employment in supporting industries. So our social spending decreases, out unemployment goes down, our income tax revenue goes up and out corporation tax revenue goes up.
So why did we want you to say I hear you furiously type. Because although we're just fine without you economically. We wanted a united security front especially when Russia is getting aggressive, we wanted free movement and trade theoughout the EU because they believe it promotes understanding and unity and decreases the threat of war. The past 60 years have been unprecedently peacefull for EU members. We are also a larger economic block to negotiate trade deals with others like the US or China and a bigger political player.
But you've already taken the free movement, the united political stance, the negotiating power and other things that made you a valuable partner. With Brexit they are gone. There is no way for it to be Brexit and us to still have those things. And now you want us to agree a deal that could end the EU and give you all the financial benefits and in return you offer us....what? Access to your market? We dont care. In public companies will say they value their British customers because thats public relations 101. Want an example? BMW and Mercedes have said they want to do everything to protect the UK market access. And yet the german car manufacturers association has come out and said they have no interest in defending the British market.
See people like you will believe BMW because you cant make the link between BMW and the association they have a hand in running, nor can you make the link from BMW to all the other brands they make who are competing with UK cars. And when those UK cars have a 17% tarriff and BMW other brands dont, they will take your market share.
The reason the EU is pushing for article 50 as soon as possible and the UK is holding off is because everyone knows youre fucked. We're ready to negotiate because we have all the leverage and you have none. You have nothing to offer because you already took everything of value off the table. And your market share compared to the EU market share is nothing worth talking about. We might come out financially ahead, in fact probably will, whether or not you end up in the worst recession in 70 years or not will be decided by our goodwill.
You're just not smart enough to see it.
I think maybe you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else "
Forgetting that those who voted leave are thick though aren't you? And we need to be shown the error of our ways.. | |||
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" Who said that we will be unable to negotiate a free trade deal. ? The duties become irrelevant then. People on these forums seem obsessed with duties .. I prefer to rely on my advice from two specialist investment publications which are published weekly . Because the EU doesnt want you to have free trade and they dont have to give it. Merkel and May met recently and she tried to get the Germans to agree that the British citizens in Germany wouldnt be thrown out of the country when Brexit happens and she couldnt even get them to agree to that. People are focusing on the dutied because thats all thats left to negotiate. Think about it for just a second: Imagine if Newcastle wanted to leave the UK and be their own nation. Could they dictate the terms to Britain? Is their economy so important compared to the rest of the UK that they'll bend over to accomodate them? And would Britain give Newcastle a good deal to go out on their own and encourage Manchester and Liverpool to do the same? Or would they give Newcastle a terrible deal so they can keep the rest of England united. Because thats the exact scenario between the Uk and the EU. Poppycock! Newcastle makes great brown ale and they'll be falling over themselves to buy it at the new higher price. Newcastle holds the all the bargaining power "It's made in Yorkshire now - at Tadcaster by John Smiths | |||
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"So you are telling me everyone was fully cognisant of all the pros and cons and no one acted on the basis of opinions they heard in the media? No one got their informed opinion from their favourite media outlets? No one got into a thought loop on their Facebook like algorithm when faced with more an more opinions that agreed with their own? " You may well be right by people being manipulated into voting by the media - just think if the vast majority of the media hadn't been pro-remain.... how many remainers would actually have voted for Brexit instead? | |||
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"So you are telling me everyone was fully cognisant of all the pros and cons and no one acted on the basis of opinions they heard in the media? No one got their informed opinion from their favourite media outlets? No one got into a thought loop on their Facebook like algorithm when faced with more an more opinions that agreed with their own? You may well be right by people being manipulated into voting by the media - just think if the vast majority of the media hadn't been pro-remain.... how many remainers would actually have voted for Brexit instead?" My guess would be millions x | |||
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"So you are telling me everyone was fully cognisant of all the pros and cons and no one acted on the basis of opinions they heard in the media? No one got their informed opinion from their favourite media outlets? No one got into a thought loop on their Facebook like algorithm when faced with more an more opinions that agreed with their own? You may well be right by people being manipulated into voting by the media - just think if the vast majority of the media hadn't been pro-remain.... how many remainers would actually have voted for Brexit instead? My guess would be millions x" I nearly voted to remain because the remain campaign predicted Financial meltdown if we were to leave . Why would any rational person vote to remain in an organisation where we pay in more than we pay out . It is non sensicial and to date no remain campaigner has been able to explain why. The number of voters supporting remain is massively overstated. In real life if you paid in more than you got out you would go bankrupt . | |||
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"So you are telling me everyone was fully cognisant of all the pros and cons and no one acted on the basis of opinions they heard in the media? No one got their informed opinion from their favourite media outlets? No one got into a thought loop on their Facebook like algorithm when faced with more an more opinions that agreed with their own? You may well be right by people being manipulated into voting by the media - just think if the vast majority of the media hadn't been pro-remain.... how many remainers would actually have voted for Brexit instead? My guess would be millions x I nearly voted to remain because the remain campaign predicted Financial meltdown if we were to leave . Why would any rational person vote to remain in an organisation where we pay in more than we pay out . It is non sensicial and to date no remain campaigner has been able to explain why. The number of voters supporting remain is massively overstated. In real life if you paid in more than you got out you would go bankrupt . "I think the political class has much to answer for. Neither remain or leave is catastrophic. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The hysteria before and after the referendum is just ridiculous,on both sides. As a nation we have had ups and downs inside and no doubt outside the EU when we leave. Everyone had their own priorities and reasons for voting either way. That doesn't mean they didn't understand what they were voting for. Let's just be honest and leave. It was a binary choice. Remain within the EU - that is as we currently are,in the single market, customs union, subject to ECJ and the freedoms including freedom of movement. Or leave the EU and therefore the above. No one is thick or misinformed. Everyone has their own perspective and their own experiences. They voted according to that. Those who felt life outside the EU was more beneficial to their situation outnumbered those who voted remain. Let's get on and make a success of our new pathway x | |||
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" Why would any rational person vote to remain in an organisation where we pay in more than we pay out . It is non sensicial and to date no remain campaigner has been able to explain why. ...... In real life if you paid in more than you got out you would go bankrupt . "It has been explained many times but it is impossible to get people with one dimensional thought processes to understand multi dimensional concepts. Simple illustration. A government is responsible for a country with 100 companies, 1000 employees and 500 children and old people. Govt gets a set revenue from company taxes and personal taxes. Govt decides to join a trade union to which it pays a subscription but gets nothing back at all. However, because of the trade opportunities now available, the companies create more profit, generate more tax and the whole associated supply chain also generates direct and indirect taxation from people associated with the improved environment far in excess of what is "paid" directly to the trade union. A simple one dimensional analogy is advertising. Not a single sale can directly be attributed to an advertising spend and therefore by your definition it is stupid. | |||
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" Why would any rational person vote to remain in an organisation where we pay in more than we pay out . It is non sensicial and to date no remain campaigner has been able to explain why. ...... In real life if you paid in more than you got out you would go bankrupt .
It has been explained many times but it is impossible to get people with one dimensional thought processes to understand multi dimensional concepts.
Simple illustration.
A government is responsible for a country with 100 companies, 1000 employees and 500 children and old people. Govt gets a set revenue from company taxes and personal taxes.
Govt decides to join a trade union to which it pays a subscription but gets nothing back at all. However, because of the trade opportunities now available, the companies create more profit, generate more tax and the whole associated supply chain also generates direct and indirect taxation from people associated with the improved environment far in excess of what is "paid" directly to the trade union.
A simple one dimensional analogy is advertising. Not a single sale can directly be attributed to an advertising spend and therefore by your definition it is stupid. ". Surely all these intangible factors are included in the net benefit calculations . I do no know for definite and does anyone actually know how the net benefit or loss of being a member is actually cakculuted . Why should we subsidise all those countries that receive more than they pay in. | |||
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"Here we go again ! We voted Out ! Can we please Leave Now ! Sure, just as soon as you figure out a way to leave without fucking up the British economy And why would leaving hsve any impact on the economy ? People will still want to buy our goods .
I went through this with you about 17 times last weekend on here.
You just dont understand enough about the situation to explain this to. Its like trying to explain rocket science to a 5 year old.
But as the saying goes, God loves a trier and once more Ill explain this as simply as I possibly can.
The EU is fighting for survival. The best way to guarantee its survival is to give the UK a shitty deal so no one else is tempted to leave. People buy your products because their priced competitively. If the people would pay a 17% premium for UK goods they'd already charge that price. The cost of UK goods could increase by 17% if thats the tarriff the EU decides on. Yes the EU will lose a big part of the UK market as the UK will likely match the tarriffs (increasing them would just mean the EU increases theirs too).
But the financial centre will move to EU because they are not going to pay 17% of their profits in tax if they dont have to. And yes EU wages are less than UK wages, youre the 4th highest in the EU. Motor industry will do the same and so will other industries. Lower wages, saving 17% on their profits and cheaper rents are all good reasons for companies to move.
The EU will lose a lot of the UK market but we'll get all those financial, motor industry and other jobs. We'll also be able to increase employment in supporting industries. So our social spending decreases, out unemployment goes down, our income tax revenue goes up and out corporation tax revenue goes up.
So why did we want you to say I hear you furiously type. Because although we're just fine without you economically. We wanted a united security front especially when Russia is getting aggressive, we wanted free movement and trade theoughout the EU because they believe it promotes understanding and unity and decreases the threat of war. The past 60 years have been unprecedently peacefull for EU members. We are also a larger economic block to negotiate trade deals with others like the US or China and a bigger political player.
But you've already taken the free movement, the united political stance, the negotiating power and other things that made you a valuable partner. With Brexit they are gone. There is no way for it to be Brexit and us to still have those things. And now you want us to agree a deal that could end the EU and give you all the financial benefits and in return you offer us....what? Access to your market? We dont care. In public companies will say they value their British customers because thats public relations 101. Want an example? BMW and Mercedes have said they want to do everything to protect the UK market access. And yet the german car manufacturers association has come out and said they have no interest in defending the British market.
See people like you will believe BMW because you cant make the link between BMW and the association they have a hand in running, nor can you make the link from BMW to all the other brands they make who are competing with UK cars. And when those UK cars have a 17% tarriff and BMW other brands dont, they will take your market share.
The reason the EU is pushing for article 50 as soon as possible and the UK is holding off is because everyone knows youre fucked. We're ready to negotiate because we have all the leverage and you have none. You have nothing to offer because you already took everything of value off the table. And your market share compared to the EU market share is nothing worth talking about. We might come out financially ahead, in fact probably will, whether or not you end up in the worst recession in 70 years or not will be decided by our goodwill.
You're just not smart enough to see it. Thanks for the explanation and time taken to write it .
However I do not agree with any of it . What surprises me on here is that the remainers seem to expect people to agree with their posts regardless . Whilst you are entitled to an opinion referring to someone with who you disagree as a five year old is rather patronising .
The banks are unlikely to move as employment costs are higher abroad . Maybe also look at all the new office blocks being built in the City of London. It is booming with confidence . "Totally agree about the talking down to someone because they disagree with you ... unacceptable and devalues persons original point of view. However, Banks and other financial institutions are moving jobs abroad already its just drip feeding rather than wholesale movement. Labour costs in some European countries are higher but jobs are being moved to countries where education levels are higher and wages much lower | |||
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"There is plenty of evidence of inward invdstment into the UK if anyone cares to look and the UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. The EU economy is forecast to remain stagnant with continued austerity and more quantative easing this year and next in the Eurozone. Fact or fiction?" Another fact as stated by Andrew Neil on the This Week programme on BBC 1 after Question Time about an hour ago "The USA economy has grown around 12% since the crash in 2008, the UK economy has grown around 8% since the crash in 2008, but the EU economy (euro zone) is still at the same level it was around 2008 and has had virtually 0% growth. How can this be considered success for the EU economy?" | |||
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"There is plenty of evidence of inward invdstment into the UK if anyone cares to look and the UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. The EU economy is forecast to remain stagnant with continued austerity and more quantative easing this year and next in the Eurozone. Fact or fiction? Another fact as stated by Andrew Neil on the This Week programme on BBC 1 after Question Time about an hour ago "The USA economy has grown around 12% since the crash in 2008, the UK economy has grown around 8% since the crash in 2008, but the EU economy (euro zone) is still at the same level it was around 2008 and has had virtually 0% growth. How can this be considered success for the EU economy?" " EU as a whole? Or country by country? Since the Uk were part of the EU. Greece, Spain and Italy may lower the results. Is that growth after the crash or before the crash. If after it matters how much it shrunk during the crash. | |||
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"
It has been explained many times but it is impossible to get people with one dimensional thought processes to understand multi dimensional concepts.
Simple illustration.
A government is responsible for a country with 100 companies, 1000 employees and 500 children and old people. Govt gets a set revenue from company taxes and personal taxes.
Govt decides to join a trade union to which it pays a subscription but gets nothing back at all. However, because of the trade opportunities now available, the companies create more profit, generate more tax and the whole associated supply chain also generates direct and indirect taxation from people associated with the improved environment far in excess of what is "paid" directly to the trade union.
A simple one dimensional analogy is advertising. Not a single sale can directly be attributed to an advertising spend and therefore by your definition it is stupid. "Ah the good old youre thick I am clever post. Even if we have no trade deal with the EU then trade will continue and at current levels of currency exchange rates the cost of our goods into the EU will be much the same as now. Increasing levels of trade are generally a good thing but only if the whole population benefits and as we are seeing in many places round the world increasing numbers dont feel that they are, it has to be admitted some of that is self inflicted but greed and self interest from those with power to change things is responsible for far more, if the eu returned to just a trade area and control of the excesses was enabled then I would have voted remain, but IMVHO those who are the most ardent supporters of the EU are the ones to blame for the leave vote | |||
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"There is plenty of evidence of inward invdstment into the UK if anyone cares to look and the UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. The EU economy is forecast to remain stagnant with continued austerity and more quantative easing this year and next in the Eurozone. Fact or fiction? Another fact as stated by Andrew Neil on the This Week programme on BBC 1 after Question Time about an hour ago "The USA economy has grown around 12% since the crash in 2008, the UK economy has grown around 8% since the crash in 2008, but the EU economy (euro zone) is still at the same level it was around 2008 and has had virtually 0% growth. How can this be considered success for the EU economy?" EU as a whole? Or country by country? Since the Uk were part of the EU. Greece, Spain and Italy may lower the results. Is that growth after the crash or before the crash. If after it matters how much it shrunk during the crash." The Eurozone as a whole. Britain is not in the Eurozone as we kept the pound sterling so our growth figures are not factored into the Eurozone. What Andrew Neil was saying was that while some countries in the EU Eurozone may experience growth such as Germany, it will be cancelled out by other countries in the Euro who are doing badly such as Greece, Portugal and Italy. | |||
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"I find it alittle frustrating that the people vote yet STILL argument goes on to re-vote!!-let it be FFs " I KNOW... it is soooo infuriating. It is like after every general election that damn opposition party still keeps butting in and trying to hold the government to account. How dare they! The majority of the country should just stfu and be happy with the vague promises of the minority. I mean, it's not like Nigel Farage has been complaining about this for 25 years or anything. -Matt | |||
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