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Learning our lessons as grown ups

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By *oo hot OP   Couple
over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 04/12/16 22:47:01]

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By *oo hot OP   Couple
over a year ago

North West

Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets hope the british will be prepared to work for the farmers in the fields picking potatoes and all sorts on zero hour contracts to support themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland."

Of course, staying within the EU would have lead to eternal paradise...

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados


"Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland.

Of course, staying within the EU would have lead to eternal paradise..."

I don't think anyone has suggested that. Speaking for myself personally, I just believed that despite the faults of the EU it had a lot of benefits and, leaving it would be a costly, long, and ultimately destructive process.

But I guess similar to the article above, I think that now the process has started, we need to see it through. And I wish the government would just get on with it and take it to parliament rather than wasting time and money fighting a legal battle they don't need to fight.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland.

Of course, staying within the EU would have lead to eternal paradise...

I don't think anyone has suggested that. Speaking for myself personally, I just believed that despite the faults of the EU it had a lot of benefits and, leaving it would be a costly, long, and ultimately destructive process.

But I guess similar to the article above, I think that now the process has started, we need to see it through. And I wish the government would just get on with it and take it to parliament rather than wasting time and money fighting a legal battle they don't need to fight.

-Matt"

It was the premise of the OP.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados


"

It was the premise of the OP."

I was working on the basis of two lots of sarcasm cancelling each other out

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I briefly thought about this. Just let brexit happen as the brexiteers want it to and if things do get worse for the foreseeable future, either try to leave the UK, or stick it out and see how the brext leaders run away, or try to shit the blame.

And if things don't get net worse, and stay the same or get better overall, then fair enough, I was wrong in being so cautious over leaving the EU.

At the same point though, I saw my parents in tears due to making ends meet in the 2008 crash. From 2008-2012 I remember seeing friends, their parents and my own family in tears over lack of good quality work, or a complete lack of.

I'm not saying remaining in the EU would be great - far from it, but I'm too worried for those I know to feel confident about brexit as it stands.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland.

Of course, staying within the EU would have lead to eternal paradise...

I don't think anyone has suggested that. Speaking for myself personally, I just believed that despite the faults of the EU it had a lot of benefits and, leaving it would be a costly, long, and ultimately destructive process.

But I guess similar to the article above, I think that now the process has started, we need to see it through. And I wish the government would just get on with it and take it to parliament rather than wasting time and money fighting a legal battle they don't need to fight.

-Matt"

Maybe Gina Miller should drop the case then and let the government get on with implementing the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

It was the premise of the OP.

I was working on the basis of two lots of sarcasm cancelling each other out

-Matt"

Then you may be "grown up."

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I was called "stupid" by Keith Vaz MP for voting out (and who is feeling stupid now Mr Vaz?)

And now I see protesters outside the Supreme Court holding placards, saying that those who want to have some control over immigration are fascists.

Some people are never going to grow up regarding the referendum result!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If brexit goes well we can all buy a brexiter we know a pint and they can get all smug .If it goes tits up we can blame them for all our problems until the country picks up.Although that could a few decades.Seems fair to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If brexit goes well we can all buy a brexiter we know a pint and they can get all smug .If it goes tits up we can blame them for all our problems until the country picks up.Although that could a few decades.Seems fair to me."

And if the EU crumbles?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's an interesting idea...

Everybody nowadays needs somebody external to blame, it could be a good lesson if everything turns to shit and people who voted out had to acknowledge their own decision

But then they could blame the lies about milk and honey... Is there always a scapegoat?

In the 2008 crisis, the vast majority of people here in Ireland were extremely negative but 'at least' they had the bankers and government to blame

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"

Maybe Gina Miller should drop the case then and let the government get on with implementing the will of the people as expressed in the referendum. "

Gina Miller has already won her case, it's the government who are appealing it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic) "

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"If brexit goes well we can all buy a brexiter we know a pint and they can get all smug .If it goes tits up we can blame them for all our problems until the country picks up.Although that could a few decades.Seems fair to me.

And if the EU crumbles?"

What do you mean "IF"

The only question is "WHEN"

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"I was called "stupid" by Keith Vaz MP for voting out (and who is feeling stupid now Mr Vaz?)

And now I see protesters outside the Supreme Court holding placards, saying that those who want to have some control over immigration are fascists.

Some people are never going to grow up regarding the referendum result!"

And Farage said that I wasnt decent honest or hardworking for voting remain.

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

For any of you who watched the debate lead by Kier Starmer yesterday, it was interesting how to Brexiters in parliament were already lining up their excuses to blame the Remain voters if Brexit goes badly.

They won't take any shred of responsibility.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"I was called "stupid" by Keith Vaz MP for voting out (and who is feeling stupid now Mr Vaz?)

And now I see protesters outside the Supreme Court holding placards, saying that those who want to have some control over immigration are fascists.

Some people are never going to grow up regarding the referendum result!

And Farage said that I wasnt decent honest or hardworking for voting remain."

Nah! I would only say misguided.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the EU crumbles the brexiters will be blamed no doubt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say."

I dont know the details or care really, feels more like the ebbs and flows of life rather than a tsunami

How bad is Italy anyway?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say.

I dont know the details or care really, feels more like the ebbs and flows of life rather than a tsunami

How bad is Italy anyway? "

Well, pretty bad...

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados


"

Maybe Gina Miller should drop the case then and let the government get on with implementing the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

Gina Miller has already won her case, it's the government who are appealing it."

Exactly. The only reason the government are appealing it is to try and save face. They could just get on with their job.

-Matt

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

There have been 6 recessions in the UK since the 1930s

1956 2 quarters - Inflation 4.9% Interest rates 5.5% No significant job losses

1961 2 quarters Interest rates 7% (peak) No significant job losses

1973/4 3 quarters years 1973

Inflation 9.2% in 1973

16.0% in 1974

and then dipped into recession again in 1975/76

Inflation 24.2% in 1975

16.5% in 1976.

Interest rates fluctuated wildly during the recession with a low of 9.0% in March 1976 and a high of 15.0% in October 1976.

Early 1980s recession

Company earnings decline 35%.

Unemployment rises from 5.3% of the working population in August 1979 to 11.9% in 1984

Took thirteen quarters for GDP to recover to its pre-recession peak at the end of 1979.

Inflation was 18.0% in 1980

11.9% in 1981

8.6% in 1982

4.6% in 1983.

Interest rates

17.0% at the beginning of 1980

9.6% in October 1982.

1990/91 recession

(5 Qtrs)

high bank rate in response to rising inflation caused by the Lawson Boom and to maintain British membership of the Exchange Rate Mechanism.

Company earnings declined 25%.

Unemployment rises from 6.9% of the working population in 1990 to 10.7% in 1993

GDP Took nearly 3 years to recover from pre-recession peak in the Spring of 1990

Annual inflation was 9.5% in 1990

5.9% in 1991, 3.7% in 1992. and 1.6% in 1993.

Interest rates were 14.8% at the start of the recession

5.9% by the end of the recession

Great Recession 2008/9

(5 Qtrs)

The recession lasted for five quarters and was the deepest UK recession since the war.

Manufacturing output declined 7% by end 2008.

The unemployment rate rose to 8.3% (2.68m people) in August 2011, the highest level since 1994.

Although not in recession in the 2010s, it saw four separate periods of Quarter on Quarter fall in growth: 2010 Q4 (-0.4); 2011 Q4 (-0.1); 2012 Q2 (-0.5); and 2012 Q4 (-0.2)

So - 2 minor recessions before we joined the EU, and 5 deep recessions since we joined the EU.

Maybe people have already learned about the EU.....

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say.

I dont know the details or care really, feels more like the ebbs and flows of life rather than a tsunami

How bad is Italy anyway? "

I think the technical term is "skint"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say.

I dont know the details or care really, feels more like the ebbs and flows of life rather than a tsunami

How bad is Italy anyway?

I think the technical term is "skint""

Or bust. That is a good term.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados


"

So - 2 minor recessions before we joined the EU, and 5 deep recessions since we joined the EU.

Maybe people have already learned about the EU....."

Yes, they maybe learnt not to try and confuse correlation with causation?

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say.

I dont know the details or care really, feels more like the ebbs and flows of life rather than a tsunami

How bad is Italy anyway?

Well, pretty bad..."

Is that measured emotionally or objectively? Like facts or just a gut feel?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/12/16 06:08:03]

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"This Eu crumbles thing is fun... It may well happen but I imagine a much slower decline than the inevitable crash landing of brexit (which has a glimmer of hope if the politicians can really work some magic)

So you will bail out Italy? The crumbling is going to be faster than you think. It is all based on a misconceived political notion.

The land of milk and honey, as Remainers like to say.

I dont know the details or care really, feels more like the ebbs and flows of life rather than a tsunami

How bad is Italy anyway?

Well, pretty bad...

Is that measured emotionally or objectively? Like facts or just a gut feel? "

I would think that its largest bank on the verge of bankruptcy, thousands of small investors having their life savings stolen, unemployment at around 12% and youth unemployment at 37% is pretty objective and I bet your average Italian is quite emotional about it.

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay


"Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland.

Of course, staying within the EU would have lead to eternal paradise...

I don't think anyone has suggested that. Speaking for myself personally, I just believed that despite the faults of the EU it had a lot of benefits and, leaving it would be a costly, long, and ultimately destructive process.

But I guess similar to the article above, I think that now the process has started, we need to see it through. And I wish the government would just get on with it and take it to parliament rather than wasting time and money fighting a legal battle they don't need to fight.

-Matt

Maybe Gina Miller should drop the case then and let the government get on with implementing the will of the people as expressed in the referendum. "

Why?.......she already won the case, it's the government appealing against the judgement, not the other way around....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Very thought provoking blog post in the Huff today and I am beginning to wonder now if there is not some truth in it.

(I believe links to news articles are allowed so here goes...)

Let Brexit Happen. Let People Learn

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/david-vigar/let-brexit-happen-let-peo_b_13374722.html

It is kind of what I have been thinking about the exit process in that people will learn through experience that there will be costs and consequences - albeit by the same token if we are delivered into the land of milk and honey as promised by Farage et al then we can be happy in Brexitland."

For me the most important part of the article was if you dont let the adults have what they voted for we are clearing a path for a Trumpesk PM.

Got to love the Huff

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