FabSwingers.com forum: Do ALL children deserve an Education?

By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Its been revealed today that when she was Home Secretary, May wanted to deny school places to illegal immigrants.

I think this would be against article 4 and 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and Protocol 1, Article 2 of the human rights act as it is denying access to education.

Should children be punished for the actions of the parents?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. May has gone too far

every child deserves a good education and to be safe .

May is Thatcher extreme .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To paraphrase Malcolm X:

'Education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today.'

So yes, all children deserve education.

The United Nation Convention of the right of Child protects that and, in my opinion, it is out of question to question that right !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Right now,,,there are approximately 100000 children trapped in Aleppo facing extermination ....

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By *eerobCouple
over a year ago

solihull

I only half heard the article but as I understood it she was not denying anyone an education, she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue... I can kinda understand that illegal immigrants should not be at the front... I could have got that wrong?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not if they are illegal. This is an incentive to continue illegal immigration.

All people should have a free education but budgets are finite and British comprehensives are woefully underfunded as it is.

We don't owe the world.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"I only half heard the article but as I understood it she was not denying anyone an education, she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue... I can kinda understand that illegal immigrants should not be at the front... I could have got that wrong? "

I can't make that out either from the news.

That is two different scenarios.

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

Not according to all the afghans i work with, this is why they voted for brexit...school and surgery places.....lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. That was the leaked info. It was not "no education."

If, and I do mean if, it was true then it was horrid.

I am not sure about the reality of it.

Personally, I would prefer we all opened our patios for the little darlings.

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

I can't make that out either from the news.

That is two different scenarios."

I don't really think so. A child in this country is a child in this country, and therefore deserving of an education. They are not to blame for their circumstance.

If we have enough funds to carry on with nuclear weapons, then a few extra quid to educate a child isn't a stretch...

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school."

It also says, they would be 'de-prioritised' . The article is unclear either way, in that is says both things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's what they were saying on the news this morning. All i know is that I'd be mightily pissed off if my kids lost out to a place in our preferred school because it had been given to an illegal immigrant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To paraphrase Malcolm X:

'Education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today.'

So yes, all children deserve education.

The United Nation Convention of the right of Child protects that and, in my opinion, it is out of question to question that right !"

well said my friend

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

So you think your children deserve an education, but other people's children sometimes don't deserve an education?

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By *eliz NelsonMan
over a year ago

The Tantric Tea Shop

"To paraphrase Malcolm X:

'Education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs to the people who prepare for it today.'

So yes, all children deserve education.

The United Nation Convention of the right of Child protects that and, in my opinion, it is out of question to question that right !"

Just out of interest 'fabandbearded' I recall chatting to a couple of French' mates a few years back, I was astounded (and impressed) at how highly they valued education in France, certainly seemed more so that we do in England. ...... Ducks for cover here

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped. "

So what if they were depriortised by all the schools and not offered a place at any school?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There seems to be two camps. Those who want to give the world the things we and our ancestors have worked and payed taxes for, and those who prefer it went to those who payed for it.

There is not enough places as it is. This is why I'm going to home school and then send go a religious school (Jewish or Protestant). I won't rely on the state who gives to non-citezens before the citezens who paid into the System.

There is now a school in Govanhil, Glasgow with No Scots. The cost of the school is more due to the need for the English lessons and support. The class that do speak English will suffer.

You guys can live in Lala land while I teach my kids.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends. Schools only have limited spaces so if it didnt take the place away from a UK child then happy days. Now think if your child couldnt get a place because of the imigrant child would you all be fine with that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped.

So what if they were depriortised by all the schools and not offered a place at any school? "

Then they should return home to get one. Their child's educations is surely mpre important than their dreams of living in a rich nation? The utter selfishness is staggering.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So you think your children deserve an education, but other people's children sometimes don't deserve an education?"

No. I'm saying it's right that they should be at the back of the queue. They are here illegally after all. I didn't say they don't deserve an education at all.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

So you think your children deserve an education, but other people's children sometimes don't deserve an education?"

So, if you flip it on its head, are you saying, it wouldn't bother you at all if your kids were denied a place at your local preferred school, because the places had been taken by children of illegal immigrants. And that meant your kids had to travel to a school in the next town every day? Where does that leave the rights of your children?

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped. "

Agreed - it is probably an idea like many where departments needed to cut costs and white papers were produced. Some media storm has been made out of it to either de-rail Brexit or her as PM by some tycoon trying not to lose money.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was Boris as he's looking foolish again over his in/out comments whilst trying to get in a lift. As a foreign secretary who would be shouting to a reporter from a fucking lift.

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

So you think your children deserve an education, but other people's children sometimes don't deserve an education?

"preferred" school sort of says it. You don't have a right to send your children to it. Your children do have a right to an education however, and so do those others in this country, however they got here.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying give the place to someone else and let your kids go elsewhere?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if school places are limited and your child doesn't get the school of your choice, and has to go to a school that isn't near your home. Then, you find out the child of illegal immigrants got a place at the school you wanted for your child.

Those parents did something illegal, to get a place in a school, meaning your child lost out.

Would that make people think differently?

If the parents are illegally here, they will be deported surely, and the child would be leaving the school where they took a place another child should have had.

Every child should have an education, but at the detriment of another child?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped.

So what if they were depriortised by all the schools and not offered a place at any school? "

We don't know exactly what form the 'deprioritised' procedure would have taken so no one can answer your question with a meaningful answer. But as it's not going to happen.....

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"What if school places are limited and your child doesn't get the school of your choice, and has to go to a school that isn't near your home. Then, you find out the child of illegal immigrants got a place at the school you wanted for your child.

Those parents did something illegal, to get a place in a school, meaning your child lost out.

Would that make people think differently?

If the parents are illegally here, they will be deported surely, and the child would be leaving the school where they took a place another child should have had.

Every child should have an education, but at the detriment of another child? "

Correct. Most of the schools in our area are already over full. This means already some kids travel miles to a school often not with their sibling. Loads of consequences to this in terms of parents being able to take their kids, picking up after school, childcare before and after.

If someone has come here illegally it can't be at the expense of a local child.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped.

So what if they were depriortised by all the schools and not offered a place at any school? "

Schools don't prioritise anyone. The Borough does that using different criteria. It's not as bad as it used to be, because the Government has decided to build more schools and expand existing schools. There are still children travelling out of London to go to school, because there are no places in their local schools.

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By *ildt123Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

Difficult one really. Children are children and are blameless in this situation and education is a fundamental right.

But we are not talking bout migrants or refugees but illegal immigrants who have snuck in in the back of a truck or been trafficked in under cover of darkness etc, or stayed known wingbtheybwerecdupposed to leave. If they have done that the will have no NI number or tax code most likely and surely under such circumstances they should be removed from U.K. Otherwise you simply encourage people trafficking if the consequences of being caught is positive why would people not try. If the process takes a long time by all means provide education while it goes on.

But like someone above said why should anyone's child be denied a place at the school near them because of someone who snuck in illegally?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do you expect from a woman that actively protected her peadophile peers?

To answer the question. Yes all children deserve an education.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

So you think your children deserve an education, but other people's children sometimes don't deserve an education?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Do you have children?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Equal only exists in a Utopia...or fantasy.

If l went to any country illegally, all of the kids l have should be educated and fed for free. No cost. Or is it only Europeans that should put other children before their own?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue"
That is right as some parents can wait years to get a local school.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its been revealed today that when she was Home Secretary, May wanted to deny school places to illegal immigrants.

I think this would be against article 4 and 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and Protocol 1, Article 2 of the human rights act as it is denying access to education.

Should children be punished for the actions of the parents? "

How can illegal immigrants go to school

Surely if your in the country illegally the goal is not to get found or am i missing something

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'Do ALL children deserve an Education?'

Yep, just not in other countries illegally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No they shouldn't be denied an education but equally I don't think It should be our responsibility to provide one for them. Especially not at a time where we don't even have various systems of our own in order

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue"

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"'Do ALL children deserve an Education?'

Yep, just not in other countries illegally."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others."

Those that have a right to be here should have the same rights to everything the country offers. I don't see why those here illegally should. It's not a case of being more equal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Those that have a right to be here should have the same rights to everything the country offers. I don't see why those here illegally should. It's not a case of being more equal. "

If your here illegally your paying nothing into the system, you can't legally work and pay tax so why should you get anything back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's been a shortage of schools, even when Labour were in they knew that and didn't prepare anything to cover for this.

Same for social (affordable) housing.

You can discuss the rights of people to things that there are a shortage of but it won't solve the shortage.

Basically it's like we're denied rights because of money. Never hear anyone in government saying people have too much and we should restrict that unless we're discussing those who have the least. Hope that last bit makes sense.

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

The rights of children are different to the rights of adults. Though the child is here illegally, this is not through his/her choice.

It is therefore right that the child should be provided with an education. At that point the selection criteria for the schools kicks in. With no bias either way.

The result will be what it will be. Whether the family is illegal or not is irrelevant.

If you don't do this, then similar arguments can be made for other children. My (ex)wife and I fostered for many years. Often the children we looked after went to the local school, probably meaning that someone else did not.

In this case the child was often in our care because their parents were behaving in some way illegally. Should those children also be put to the back of the queue?

The wedge then gets thicker and thicker...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school."
.

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Those that have a right to be here should have the same rights to everything the country offers. I don't see why those here illegally should. It's not a case of being more equal. "

I agree with this.

Our system struggles to find the resources to help those within the education system who need extra help as it is. Stretching those resources even further just won't work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"It seems as though some believe that all children are equal, but some are more equal than others."

CLCC,

What would your opinion be if your child couldn't get in to your local school, because it was full because of the children of illegal immigrants? Are you honestly saying you are ok with your kids travelling out of catchment to go to another school?

Or taking 1 kid to one school and the younger to another?

How would you feel if that happened to your kids? Honest answer please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check."
.

Well that's probably half the problem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem"

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Yes all children deserve an education. No children don't deserve to be punished for the crimes of their parents.

We create an(other) underclass of people at our peril.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing."

That is a disengenous argument. They aren't classed as illegal for existing, it is deemed illegal because of WHERE they are. It's essentially internationally trespassing. Is the charge of trespassing for those who merely 'exist'?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing."
.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm thinking it's slightly unworkable that's all, if I had unlimited resources or a huge huge amount then you probably could do something more but human nature is such that the minute you go down the line of allowing some children education you will eventually get a whole raft of others that see that and want the same?.

That's not blaming people or illegal immigration I'm just saying that's how things are

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think basically if you're unfortunate enough to be born white and into an average 2.4 child family you should be at the back of the queue for everything. Education, health, housing, job interviews etc etc etc. It's clearly your fault that the world has gone to hell. So bend over and let it fuck you in the ass, then maybe readers of the Guardian can feel less guilty about how middle class they are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All children deserve an education, that's without question. The report I saw suggested that the children in question would be "at the back of the queue" for school places, presumably they'd be allocated places in schools that were undersubscribed after other children had been allocated places. I've got mixed feelings about this. If we're saying that these last choice schools wouldn't be good enough to provide an education for the children of illegal immigrants, why on earth are they considered good enough to provide an education for any children?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All children deserve an education, that's without question. The report I saw suggested that the children in question would be "at the back of the queue" for school places, presumably they'd be allocated places in schools that were undersubscribed after other children had been allocated places. I've got mixed feelings about this. If we're saying that these last choice schools wouldn't be good enough to provide an education for the children of illegal immigrants, why on earth are they considered good enough to provide an education for any children?"

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing..

That's not blaming people or illegal immigration I'm just saying that's how things are"

why wouldn't we all want the same things the privileged have given themselves?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think basically if you're unfortunate enough to be born white and into an average 2.4 child family you should be at the back of the queue for everything. Education, health, housing, job interviews etc etc etc. It's clearly your fault that the world has gone to hell. So bend over and let it fuck you in the ass, then maybe readers of the Guardian can feel less guilty about how middle class they are. "
.

It's only 1.9 these days.... But yeah pretty much that's how it feels on a day to day basis except I don't think it's solely about being white, it's everybody's granddads fault didn't you know?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sad but true. Social justice in a paragraph.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing.

i was born here, i dn't clas this place as my country or that most of those here are my people. i think i have a different mindset to those who believe a person can be illegal for existing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands."

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I give up, I didn't think anyone could find a reason to deny a child an education, that's our future, we dontvown this world, we borrow it from them!

And now you lot want to have the next generation in educated?

I can guarantee that a large portion of the very people who don't want to give education to illegal immigrants children, are the first to jump all over grammar mistakes, make your bloody minds up.

Education is a human right, turn your back on human rights and you might as well turn your back on civilization, and arm ourselves to the teeth and wait for it all to kick off.

Education is key to bringing peace in the future, and ending the constant instability that causes conflict throughout the world, sort that out and there's a cvcvhance that we won't see any illegal immigration, because we will be educated enough to not want to start wars because we don't look the same, or have different beliefs.

Some people need to stop thinking about how this affects their first world life and look at tgbe bigger picture, because its selfishness that is holding back the human race, along with intolerance, and ignorance, wake up, its not all about you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing..

That's not blaming people or illegal immigration I'm just saying that's how things are

why wouldn't we all want the same things the privileged have given themselves?

If you took the top 1%ers money the states, every penny, it wouldn't even cover the cost of the US student debt. God knows why people buy this stuff

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria. "

It shouldn't be but to many that's how it should be. I was being tongue in cheek.

White working class boys are doing the worst in our education system. Nothing being done of course and I do think that is due to their gender and race.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria.

It shouldn't be but to many that's how it should be. I was being tongue in cheek.

White working class boys are doing the worst in our education system. Nothing being done of course and I do think that is due to their gender and race."

A lot is being done in schools now for that particular group, it's a big area of focus. There are issues of culture, family, aspiration (or lack of) too however which also play a part so schools can only do so much. It's not really the fault of immigrant communities that their children do better at school because they have a culture which places value on education.

But that's another debate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing..

That's not blaming people or illegal immigration I'm just saying that's how things are

why wouldn't we all want the same things the privileged have given themselves?

"
.

I was born with fuck all and lived a childhood in the troubles of 70s n Ireland, moved to a council house in Manchester, I appreciate the effort and money put into me by the state but I've worked my ass off for coming on to nearly 30 years now!.

I'm assuming I've paid my dues back, that's how it works or is meant to work.... That's why I've never been anti immigration, what I'm totally against is queue jumping, which in effect is what illegal immigrantion is.... Wouldn't it be great if we could just magic some resources money and land for unlimited immigration forever, yeah it would be dandy but we can't, so you fill in your form and wait to see if your excepted just like I'd have to do to go to Australia or the USA or Canada.... Oh wait Canada rejected me... Fuck it I'll just smuggle in work illegally, claim for me kids health care, school costs... Ahh to be honest who gives a shit, the world's fucked anyhow

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You're correct of course. We need to speed up the system of repatriation so these children can continue their education in their own country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is from the BBC's article.

"Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that would leave them without a school..

I think the bigger question I'm asking myself is.... How the hell do you get your child a school place if your here illegally?.

Doesn't anybody check anything these days

i've no passport, all my children have been educated, 3 are still being.

no they don't check..

Well that's probably half the problem

birth certifcate and proof of address, that's all is needed.

it's a good system really, based on human rights. all children are entitled to an education.

i find it a bit weird we class people as ilegal just for existing..

That's not blaming people or illegal immigration I'm just saying that's how things are

why wouldn't we all want the same things the privileged have given themselves?

you didn't need to answer it, was just saying.

people want things, some are privileged enough to attain them.

not even gonna go into my life, i know i squandered some of my privileges and take advantage of others.

i just understand everyone wants certain things and unfortunately we have a heirarchy system that says some are not worthy of that - or are even illegal for attaining them.

why our 'leaders' are not working to ensure the people they represent have the best of everything i will never know. i think they probably don't represent us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

No they are not

If they were human rights every country would offer them

There are many country that do not offer children an education some only offer an education to boys

So rolls your eyes all you like it does not prove you right

Schooling in the UK is a UK right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria.

It shouldn't be but to many that's how it should be. I was being tongue in cheek.

White working class boys are doing the worst in our education system. Nothing being done of course and I do think that is due to their gender and race.

But that's another debate. "

Can you give me some sources that they are being specifically helped? That would be interesting.

I don't think that it has to do with culture as much. It's totally anonymous. Even boys from cultures that don't put emphasis on learning do better. Every demographic does better...

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria.

It shouldn't be but to many that's how it should be. I was being tongue in cheek.

White working class boys are doing the worst in our education system. Nothing being done of course and I do think that is due to their gender and race.

But that's another debate.

Can you give me some sources that they are being specifically helped? That would be interesting.

I don't think that it has to do with culture as much. It's totally anonymous. Even boys from cultures that don't put emphasis on learning do better. Every demographic does better... "

I'll ask the other half when he gets home from work for some literature references. And, in my view, culture plays a bigger part than you're giving it credit for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I give up, I didn't think anyone could find a reason to deny a child an education, that's our future, we dontvown this world, we borrow it from them!

And now you lot want to have the next generation in educated?

I can guarantee that a large portion of the very people who don't want to give education to illegal immigrants children, are the first to jump all over grammar mistakes, make your bloody minds up.

Education is a human right, turn your back on human rights and you might as well turn your back on civilization, and arm ourselves to the teeth and wait for it all to kick off.

Dream on.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

No they are not

If they were human rights every country would offer them

There are many country that do not offer children an education some only offer an education to boys

So rolls your eyes all you like it does not prove you right

Schooling in the UK is a UK right"

As mentioned in the OP, education is a human right, and also covered by the UN convention on the rights of the child, I even told you which articles and protocols to look at to find the specifics. You can say that I’m wrong if you want, I am more than happy to be proven wrong. Look up the convention, look up the act, read them cover to cover, and then tell me where it says that UK children entitled to an education, but the children of illegal immigrants aren’t entitled to an education. You show me where it says that, and I am more than willing to eat humble pie and apologise to you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

Right to an education is a human right. Right to an education at that nice oversubscribed Church of England high school in the leafy grounds and nice catchment area isn't a human right. If talk was of withdrawing school places, it didn't say an education wouldn't be provided, just that it would be provided somewhere else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria.

It shouldn't be but to many that's how it should be. I was being tongue in cheek.

White working class boys are doing the worst in our education system. Nothing being done of course and I do think that is due to their gender and race.

But that's another debate.

Can you give me some sources that they are being specifically helped? That would be interesting.

I don't think that it has to do with culture as much. It's totally anonymous. Even boys from cultures that don't put emphasis on learning do better. Every demographic does better...

I'll ask the other half when he gets home from work for some literature references. And, in my view, culture plays a bigger part than you're giving it credit for. "

I think environment is just as important as genes. However, since white people are regarded as privileged and other cultures put emphasis on things not beneficial to learning too, it seems totally anomylous.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?"

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

Does that mean that I would look at the class, or the year group, and start deciding which children I thought were deserving of an education and which children weren’t entitled to an education? No.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

What's that coming over the hill?

It's a gang of straw men, I believe....

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Because those children are British and are apparently privileged because of the colour of their skin or if their grandparents are from these islands.

It's nothing to do with race or whether your parents or grandparents are immigrants. Anybody who is here legally should be subject to the same admission criteria.

It shouldn't be but to many that's how it should be. I was being tongue in cheek.

White working class boys are doing the worst in our education system. Nothing being done of course and I do think that is due to their gender and race.

But that's another debate.

Can you give me some sources that they are being specifically helped? That would be interesting.

I don't think that it has to do with culture as much. It's totally anonymous. Even boys from cultures that don't put emphasis on learning do better. Every demographic does better...

I'll ask the other half when he gets home from work for some literature references. And, in my view, culture plays a bigger part than you're giving it credit for.

Why do you think that group does worse?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

Does that mean that I would look at the class, or the year group, and start deciding which children I thought were deserving of an education and which children weren’t entitled to an education? No."

The fact you prioritse other people who shouldn't be here over the life chances of your own child is saddening.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

It's not a question of deserving an education. It's the prioritisation of where. I think putting your kids to a disadvantage like that isn't fair on them. As a parent I would think I had failed them to think that was ok.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

It's not something i do either. It doesn't stop me wanting the best for my children though. As selfish as you may think that is, i don't think that makes me a criminal or mean that i don't care what happens to other children. It just means i prioritise my own problems because no one else is going to do that for me as I'm not underprivileged.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

I'm fairly sure that allowing schools to discriminate on the grounds of race/nationality or immigration status, would require Britain to opt out if the European Court of Human Rights, and to change UK discrimination laws.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its been revealed today that when she was Home Secretary, May wanted to deny school places to illegal immigrants.

I think this would be against article 4 and 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and Protocol 1, Article 2 of the human rights act as it is denying access to education.

Should children be punished for the actions of the parents? "

Simple Answer to this one

No they shouldn't be !

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"Its been revealed today that when she was Home Secretary, May wanted to deny school places to illegal immigrants.

I think this would be against article 4 and 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and Protocol 1, Article 2 of the human rights act as it is denying access to education.

Should children be punished for the actions of the parents?

Simple Answer to this one

No they shouldn't be !"

There's two issues here. I personally think those children shouldn't be 'punished' they should be given an education, in line with conventions and decency.

At the same time local kids shouldn't be 'punished' by loosing places at what would otherwise have been their school.

If the education authority is allowed to , both goals can be met (if they are funded)

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Also, state funded schools (and academys) in the UK can only turn away new applicants IF the school is over subscribed already.

In this situation, I do think that it should be included in the selection criteria, along with the child's ability to speak English and the school's ability to cope with a none English speakers.

I don't think that any school should be able to turn away any child if they have a space for them though. (Which I believe is the current legal position).

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

Why British children? There are many non-British children in schools here too, that are here legally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the children of illegal immigrants shouldn't be at the back of the queue, which children should be? The children of the tax payers who made the "free" education system possible in the first place?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

Does that mean that I would look at the class, or the year group, and start deciding which children I thought were deserving of an education and which children weren’t entitled to an education? No.

So your saying that you are privileged, and you dont want to lose that privileged. Its very common.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"she was saying that the children of illegal immigrants should be at the back of the queue

But if your in the country illegally you have no rights as your not a UK citizen so why would you have UK rights

They are HUMAN rights, not UK rights.

You've been asked by several people, do you accept your own kids loosing a place in your local school? Will you let them walk / bus / scrounge lifts to a school miles away for this principle?

If the school of my choice was full, would it be a pain in the arse? Yes of course it would.

Does that mean that I would feel any happier about the situation if it was filled with British children? No, not at all.

Does that mean that I would look at the class, or the year group, and start deciding which children I thought were deserving of an education and which children weren’t entitled to an education? No.

So your saying that you are privileged, and you dont want to lose that privileged. Its very common. "

Why should my children lose out to the benefit of someone that shouldn't be in the country?

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By *rs DCouple
over a year ago

far

"Its been revealed today that when she was Home Secretary, May wanted to deny school places to illegal immigrants.

I think this would be against article 4 and 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and Protocol 1, Article 2 of the human rights act as it is denying access to education.

Should children be punished for the actions of the parents? "
yep put them at to work in sweat shops,18 hour shifts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed."

you can't see nationality or citizenship either. it's just a concept too.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

So now the reason why she (May) is so keen to withdraw from the ECHR becomes apparent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

you can't see nationality or citizenship either. it's just a concept too."

What?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

you can't see nationality or citizenship either. it's just a concept too.

What?"

nationality and citizenship are just concepts too. so is being an illegal immigrant. they're just ideas based on laws, which are also concepts.

just because people believe in something doesn't mean it's right or true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

you can't see nationality or citizenship either. it's just a concept too.

What?

nationality and citizenship are just concepts too. so is being an illegal immigrant. they're just ideas based on laws, which are also concepts.

just because people believe in something doesn't mean it's right or true."

How about the concept of "paying your way" in life? I think I might choose not to believe in paying tax. See how well that does my white ass.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Perhaps we should also look at the fact that some refugees are denied an education by Thier own religion !

If they are Female !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

you can't see nationality or citizenship either. it's just a concept too.

What?

nationality and citizenship are just concepts too. so is being an illegal immigrant. they're just ideas based on laws, which are also concepts.

just because people believe in something doesn't mean it's right or true.

How about the concept of "paying your way" in life? I think I might choose not to believe in paying tax. See how well that does my white ass."

just because you obey laws doesn't mean you agree with them, it just can mean you value your freedom more than your rights.

loads don't agree with laws, and even disobey them, they're concepts and not facts. maybe the outcome of your actions is the fact?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Call me old fashioned, but I believe if you're here illegally, ergo contributing nothing, then you should be sent back to whence you came, ASAP.

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By *rs DCouple
over a year ago

far

"Call me old fashioned, but I believe if you're here illegally, ergo contributing nothing, then you should be sent back to whence you came, ASAP. "
after being branded

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Call me old fashioned, but I believe if you're here illegally, ergo contributing nothing, then you should be sent back to whence you came, ASAP. "

loads of people born here contribute nothing also. some even just take because they're entitled to.

this is one reason why supporting your fellow nation doesn't mean anything, or shouldn't do.

i'm off out in a bit. contributing taxes to the pub.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the children of illegal immigrants shouldn't be at the back of the queue, which children should be? The children of the tax payers who made the "free" education system possible in the first place?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not all children imo, some of those really bad behaved brats should be chucked outta school

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They would get an education just not prioritised to get one and they aren't gonna do it anyway. It was one idea amongst many that's been scrapped.

So what if they were depriortised by all the schools and not offered a place at any school? "

If their parents are here illegally their children shouldn't all of a sudden be given the same rights as people living here legally.

If that was the case it gives out the wrong message.

Their children should only be allocated a place if any at all right at the back of the queue.

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Wow!

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

I have got a feeling that some middle class white people have no idea what they immigrant children, illegal or otherwise have been through, and never will have to. Taking it up the pass compared to having to leave Aleppo because your father was killed? Leaving Afghanistan or Kurdistan for the same reason. These immigrants want their children to have a life any life is better than the one they left. How about a trafficked child? One who has no recollection of her previous life, thank goodness ...Would you deny them too. Of course, so your child could walk to school instead of having to get the bus ... some people have no idea of what reality these children and families have come from and to compare anything the white middle class 'suffer' is an absolute insult.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So..If the children of illegal immigrants shouldn't be at the back of the queue, which children should be? The children of the tax payers who made the "free" education system possible in the first place?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think everyone should have a education, however, there isn't enough money or funds to give 7 billion an education tons high standard.

People keep throwing around terms like "human rights"..these are abstract term just as fictitious as the 10 commandments. Show me a human right under a microscope. Show me any absolute morality.

In the mean while, I'll put my own kin, countrymen and those who obeyed the laws of our land over an illegal non-citizen demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

you can't see nationality or citizenship either. it's just a concept too.

What?

nationality and citizenship are just concepts too. so is being an illegal immigrant. they're just ideas based on laws, which are also concepts.

just because people believe in something doesn't mean it's right or true."

Yes but what isn't a concept is that we are here and they weren't here. We have money but not enough. The cost of milk here is higher than the many countries hourly wage. Essentially just remove a zero from the accounts and the outgoings and incomings and you have a a third world country.

In this moral vacuum, I'll put our own people first. If the sense of "own people" hasn't yet been lost and denigrated by the left as tribalism.

I think I'm going to live in lsrael next year. I want to be from a nation. Not a terminal in which the third world see as it's own, to be used.

I think we should be able to reap the rewards of our ancestors using their brains. Before European colonialism btw. The Renaissance preceded any European colonialism so you can't use that as a "but"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!"

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well said

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Are you saying the people who pay the most should get the best, because that isn't the foundation of the welfare state. We are here to help others when need be ... for example, when I was training with three children under seven, I got free child care for my youngest whilst I lived on a 'wage of six grand for a year. Now pay more than that in taxes .... way more.... children should get places on the normal criteria ... siblings, locality, catchment ... already SEN and looked aero children get preference, and that is how it should be as 'equal opportunities' means making it an equal playing field. Many tax payers dont even have children, so going down the 'I pay taxes so I should get more' route isn't a credible one. When we came to this country, my boys got straight into a secondary school circumventing the waiting list .... I pay taxes though, so that should be okay? Looked after children at the back of the queue then? Rubbing salt in the wound? Kicking someone when they are down ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The reality is i live in a rural location with fuck all buses let alone ones to school. My neighbours get transport to school because they are on benefits. If my kids go to a different school i can't get to work on time. I don't get to work on time i lose my job. I lose my job then i end up probably on benefits. We lose the house. Yet another drain on society. I guess my problems don't matter in the grand scale of things but they matter to me. And i won't be patronised because of it.

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever. "

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?"

You're just looking to pick an argument. Don't be so ridiculous.

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

You aren't being patronized, you are patronising others. So everyone on benefits is a lazy good for nothing who deserves nothing? Lucky you have been able to afford a house .... I am sure you could pay someone to drive your kids to school, or car pool. Some people work hard and actually have no other options .... they are in low paid jobs working their backside off. This is white working class poor. So many people begrudge others on benefits without knowing them .... some people have no idea. I can't say we have always had it easy, but I certainly have an idea of how utterly awful life can be for some families ....

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?

You're just looking to pick an argument. Don't be so ridiculous. "

No, honestly I am not. I am simply astounded and shocked by the implications of what you are saying. I can't believe the undertones of what you are saying ....

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

Thanks for the thread, OP. I am out though .... as it's just shocking, seeing some of the attitudes on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

every month is a struggle. How dare you? ?! You know nothing about my situation. Yes you are fucking patronising

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?

You're just looking to pick an argument. Don't be so ridiculous.

No, honestly I am not. I am simply astounded and shocked by the implications of what you are saying. I can't believe the undertones of what you are saying .... "

If we treat illegal immigrants the same as people here legally or even better then that's saying out loud illegal pays.

There becomes no deterrent at all for people to come here illegally.

There's a massive difference between an immigrant & an illegal immigrant, one should be here the other shouldn't.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"Its been revealed today that when she was Home Secretary, May wanted to deny school places to illegal immigrants.

I think this would be against article 4 and 28 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and Protocol 1, Article 2 of the human rights act as it is denying access to education.

Should children be punished for the actions of the parents? "
Surely the more important issue is why we have allowed illegal immigrants to remain in the country . ?

You are either entitled to be in the country of you are not .

What is wrong with obeying the law ? . Education costs money and only those entitled to it should be allowed to use the system.

No one would leave their house unlocked and allow people walking past to help themselves to their goods.

I support helping the less well off but not anyone who is here illegally .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?

You're just looking to pick an argument. Don't be so ridiculous.

No, honestly I am not. I am simply astounded and shocked by the implications of what you are saying. I can't believe the undertones of what you are saying ....

If we treat illegal immigrants the same as people here legally or even better then that's saying out loud illegal pays.

There becomes no deterrent at all for people to come here illegally.

There's a massive difference between an immigrant & an illegal immigrant, one should be here the other shouldn't.

Awww that's ok. Anyone here illegally is apparently welcome to come and live in my house. I'll live in a cardboard box. Its what i deserve after all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?"

Thing is scarlet was talking about illegal immigrants but you're twisting it round to all immigrants, which is wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow!

I make no apologies for putting my children first. None whatsoever.

God help any children of immigrants in your children's classes .... do you make it obvious they are second class citizens?

Thing is scarlet was talking about illegal immigrants but you're twisting it round to all immigrants, which is wrong."

It doesn't matter what i say on here someone twists it around to say what they want to argue against.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awww that's ok. Anyone here illegally is apparently welcome to come and live in my house. I'll live in a cardboard box. Its what i deserve after all. "

I'll come & live under your bed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awww that's ok. Anyone here illegally is apparently welcome to come and live in my house. I'll live in a cardboard box. Its what i deserve after all.

I'll come & live under your bed

That's no good. ..I'm under yours

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awww that's ok. Anyone here illegally is apparently welcome to come and live in my house. I'll live in a cardboard box. Its what i deserve after all.

I'll come & live under your bed

That's no good. ..I'm under yours

I hope you don't snore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I remember you correctly, you whinged that your child benefit (as a Pole) was delayed by our government and it took a while to be backdated.

I'm going to take anything you say on the topic with a large pinch of salt from my left hand.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"I give up, I didn't think anyone could find a reason to deny a child an education, that's our future, we dontvown this world, we borrow it from them!

And now you lot want to have the next generation in educated?

I can guarantee that a large portion of the very people who don't want to give education to illegal immigrants children, are the first to jump all over grammar mistakes, make your bloody minds up.

Education is a human right, turn your back on human rights and you might as well turn your back on civilization, and arm ourselves to the teeth and wait for it all to kick off.

Everything you have in life has to be earned .

Education is not a bottomless pit . The resources have to be allocsted in a manner that is fair ..

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By *awandOrderCouple
over a year ago

SW London

If I remember you correctly, you whinged that your child benefit (as a Pole) was delayed by our government and it took a while to be backdated.

I'm going to take anything you say on the topic with a large pinch of salt from my left hand."

Are you assuming I am Polish? Funny how people make assumptions. Glad to see some people are remembering everything I say. It was delayed, I wasn't whining. Guess again on my nationality ... this is funny.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

If I remember you correctly, you whinged that your child benefit (as a Pole) was delayed by our government and it took a while to be backdated.

I'm going to take anything you say on the topic with a large pinch of salt from my left hand."

I have never heard LawandOrder talk about having a Polish background, or coming from Poland, I could be wrong though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

May I ask where you came from?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I remember you correctly, you whinged that your child benefit (as a Pole) was delayed by our government and it took a while to be backdated.

I'm going to take anything you say on the topic with a large pinch of salt from my left hand.

Not sure on your nationality. Perhaps Slavic. After a while, all cupped hands look the same.

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By *essThePirateWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

[Removed by poster at 02/12/16 05:02:24]

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst

Im begining to think tessy may isnt so bad after all. No not all children deserve an education maybe they would if they were in their own country. The way things are going there wont be any jobs for them when they grow up anyway. There will be no jobs, houses or nhs, we will be a third world country, im only glad i havnt got any grandchildren to worry about.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Call me old fashioned, but I believe if you're here illegally, ergo contributing nothing, then you should be sent back to whence you came, ASAP. "

How does this work Clem?

Call me logical, but if your here illegally you cant claim any benefits so therefore are not taking anything out but you still have to eat, drink and have shelter. All these things need to be bought and VAT is charged on them and the profits they generate are also taxed so although you are not paying income tax and national insurance you still contribute.

Please feel free to correct me if you can.

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

If you want immigrants to assimilate into our society then you have to offer the best education access to their offspring......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Call me old fashioned, but I believe if you're here illegally, ergo contributing nothing, then you should be sent back to whence you came, ASAP.

How does this work Clem?

Please feel free to correct me if you can."

I hope you offer the next guy who breaks into your house a nice cup of tea before he leaves.

In fact make sure he tells all his friends what to expect if they are fortunate enough to break into your house and take what you have worked hard for. Obviously ensure they take what they like from your kids. Make that a priority.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you want immigrants to assimilate into our society then you have to offer the best education access to their offspring......"

Absolutely. However, this thread is about illegal immigrants.

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"If you want immigrants to assimilate into our society then you have to offer the best education access to their offspring......

Absolutely. However, this thread is about illegal immigrants. "

Regardless......whilst waiting for asylum decisions it's vital to school the children in mainstream British schools

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you want immigrants to assimilate into our society then you have to offer the best education access to their offspring......

Absolutely. However, this thread is about illegal immigrants.

Regardless......whilst waiting for asylum decisions it's vital to school the children in mainstream British schools"

Vital to disturb the rest of the class with a child who can't speak English and may only be there for 6 weeks? Where's the value in that?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"I hope you offer the next guy who breaks into your house a nice cup of tea before he leaves.

Right, I got that Clem. You say they don't contribute, I point out they do and ask you to disprove what I say. So your reply is to say I should invite thieves into my home, implying they are thieves.

To be absolutely clear, I did not contradict your assertion that Illegal immigrants should not be here and should be expelled when caught, I agree with that. But stop justifying the removal of illegal immigrants with falsehoods (lies), what you are doing is no different than Blair 'sexing up' documents to justify going to war just to get public approval when it was not required!

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

Many British children went into mainstream Spanish, French and Portugese schools when their parents moved abroad.....they managed to fasttrack the national language in a very short time by doing so, best way to integrate into a society and it's happened many times in the UK with Asian immigrants in the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Many British children went into mainstream Spanish, French and Portugese schools when their parents moved abroad.....they managed to fasttrack the national language in a very short time by doing so, best way to integrate into a society and it's happened many times in the UK with Asian immigrants in the past."

How is that relevant to an illegal immigrant who could be sent back in a few weeks? Why would you want to try and help someone who is here illegally to integrate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hope you offer the next guy who breaks into your house a nice cup of tea before he leaves.

Right, I got that Clem. You say they don't contribute, I point out they do and ask you to disprove what I say. So your reply is to say I should invite thieves into my home, implying they are thieves.

Who is paying for the illegal immigrant's food, shelter, health care and education?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"How is that relevant to an illegal immigrant who could be sent back in a few weeks? Why would you want to try and help someone who is here illegally to integrate?"

How about because we have empathy and a little sympathy towards those awaiting possible deportation? And if that does not appeal to you maybe I can appeal to your foresight and sense of enlightened self interests...

Firstly we have to understand that the vast majority of illegal immigrants have given up everything they have and suffered badly on long journeys to reach here. All in the hope of a better life. When they get here they find they are not welcome and will be removed when caught. If we victimise their children withholding education we risk turning a situation that has to be extremely depressing into one that causes resentment and anger. Resentment and anger lead to hatred and violence. We should avoid going down that road at all costs!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Children living here however they arrived are our countries future they need to be educated so they can in time work pay taxes and provide the government funds to keep us all in our old age ..... basic logic

wont even attempt to go into the minefield of what a lack of education will lead to

Thats not saying i believe children new to the country should get priority over those already living in an area waiting for places at a local popular school.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Who is paying for the illegal immigrant's food, shelter, health care and education? "

The vast majority pay for their own food and do not use any government supplied services because to do so is to invite being caught.

We only pay for stuff supplied to Asylum Seekers (who are by definition legally here) and illegal immigrants that have been caught and are going through the legal removal process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who is paying for the illegal immigrant's food, shelter, health care and education?

The vast majority pay for their own food and do not use any government supplied services because to do so is to invite being caught.

We only pay for stuff supplied to Asylum Seekers (who are by definition legally here) and illegal immigrants that have been caught and are going through the legal removal process."

Exactly. So why should their children not be at the back of the queue for school places if they are in the process of being removed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How is that relevant to an illegal immigrant who could be sent back in a few weeks? Why would you want to try and help someone who is here illegally to integrate?

Couldn't their children be educated in a detention centre for illegal immigrants?

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

I'm surprised just how many people think that the children should indeed be punished, and denied their human rights, for the sins of their parents. It's sad, very very sad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm surprised just how many people think that the children should indeed be punished, and denied their human rights, for the sins of their parents. It's sad, very very sad.

I'm really surprised how many people think that being allocated a school place in an under-subscribed British school is a punishment and a denial of human rights

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Couldn't their children be educated in a detention centre for illegal immigrants? "

Ah, and there is the unenlightened view of the xenophobe!

Well done you!

A family (having children is the clue there) endures extreme hardship travelling half way across the world prey to every criminal that crosses their path to build a better life for themselves here. They get caught and are going to be returned to their origin. So while awaiting deportation not only should we lock them up but we should isolate their children as well.

Sounds a perfect way to have them return home without any bitterness towards the UK...

No, that does not sound quite right...

Ah I got it now...

Sounds a perfect way to foster anger, hatred and a wish to do as much damage to the UK (and the west) as possible. Maybe look for a way to get some payback, maybe join a terrorist group and attack UK interests.

But as you say, lock them up, isolate them and kick them out. Who cares if they are treated harshly, it is not like it could ever come back to bite us on the arse!

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"I'm surprised just how many people think that the children should indeed be punished, and denied their human rights, for the sins of their parents. It's sad, very very sad.

I'm really surprised how many people think that being allocated a school place in an under-subscribed British school is a punishment and a denial of human rights

I'm not talking about that at all. I'm talking about them receiving NO education.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm surprised just how many people think that the children should indeed be punished, and denied their human rights, for the sins of their parents. It's sad, very very sad.

I'm really surprised how many people think that being allocated a school place in an under-subscribed British school is a punishment and a denial of human rights

I'm not talking about that at all. I'm talking about them receiving NO education."

But that's not what was being proposed by the Home Office. Granted - that's where a few people on this thread have gone, but I think most are agreeing there should be some education.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"I'm surprised just how many people think that the children should indeed be punished, and denied their human rights, for the sins of their parents. It's sad, very very sad.

I'm really surprised how many people think that being allocated a school place in an under-subscribed British school is a punishment and a denial of human rights

I'm not talking about that at all. I'm talking about them receiving NO education.

But that's not what was being proposed by the Home Office. Granted - that's where a few people on this thread have gone, but I think most are agreeing there should be some education."

I haven't seen the original Home Office material, but the BBC news report said "Her department suggested schools could withdraw places offered to children if their families were found to be living in the country illegally."

So that could equate to no education at all. I think most of the people in this thread are saying they should receive no education at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Couldn't their children be educated in a detention centre for illegal immigrants?

Ah, and there is the unenlightened view of the xenophobe!

Well done you!

Sounds a perfect way to have them return home without any bitterness towards the UK...

No, that does not sound quite right...

Ah I got it now...

But as you say, lock them up, isolate them and kick them out. Who cares if they are treated harshly, it is not like it could ever come back to bite us on the arse!"

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

This thread is about illegal immigrants who are prohibited from working, not general , legal migration.

I don't think anyone would say a non-working illegal migrant, with children in education is a net contributor?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

This thread is about illegal immigrants who are prohibited from working, not general , legal migration.

I don't think anyone would say a non-working illegal migrant, with children in education is a net contributor?"

illegal immigrants can work. plenty of places will employ them and pay them shit wages/cash in hand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm surprised just how many people think that the children should indeed be punished, and denied their human rights, for the sins of their parents. It's sad, very very sad.

I'm really surprised how many people think that being allocated a school place in an under-subscribed British school is a punishment and a denial of human rights

I'm not talking about that at all. I'm talking about them receiving NO education.

But that's not what was being proposed by the Home Office. Granted - that's where a few people on this thread have gone, but I think most are agreeing there should be some education."

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

If they are illegal immigrants then how can they be contributing to tax intake ? they would need a nat ins and tax code to work leagally and pay tax, so some unscrupilous employer is making a few quid extra not HMRC

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

Don't come round 'ere with your salient points! They won't listen to them....

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

Don't come round 'ere with your salient points! They won't listen to them...."

Clem, its not a salient point because the post I quoted from you was about LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL immigration.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

Don't come round 'ere with your salient points! They won't listen to them....

Clem, its not a salient point because the post I quoted from you was about LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL immigration."

I'm talking about illegal immigration, just like May was.

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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

Don't come round 'ere with your salient points! They won't listen to them....

Clem, its not a salient point because the post I quoted from you was about LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL immigration.

I'm talking about illegal immigration, just like May was. "

Ah, you just missed a word in your post then. You see I thought you were talking about immigrants, rather than illegal immigrants, because, well, you know, you just typed immigrants. Silly me, obviously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep. Then maybe the flow of immigrants would slow down once they realise the UK had pulled it trousers up.

Along with their net contribution to the exchequer, making us poorer. Great

Don't come round 'ere with your salient points! They won't listen to them....

Clem, its not a salient point because the post I quoted from you was about LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL immigration.

I'm talking about illegal immigration, just like May was.

Well this thread is about illegal immigrants...so......

FFS.

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

Legal or illegal I'd prefer to see them learn English in English schools in order to prepare them for normal life if their parents are afforded asylum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Legal or illegal I'd prefer to see them learn English in English schools in order to prepare them for normal life if their parents are afforded asylum."

To the detriment of your own children?

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"Legal or illegal I'd prefer to see them learn English in English schools in order to prepare them for normal life if their parents are afforded asylum.

To the detriment of your own children? "

My children are adults, but not withstanding that I'd not have any problem with it if they were still of school age......my children grew up in South London, surrounded by other kids from all over the world many f whom never had English as a first language, it never affected their education as they all three have excelled in their careers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So, as usual, people whom it doesn't affect are fine with it. Quelle surprise.

The key word throughout has been "illegal".

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