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"Assad troops have taken another chunk of Eastern Aleppo today. Does this leave only one way forward? Assad was elected as president, even though there was evidence of corruption etc in the election (as there is in half the countries of the world) Assad, with Russian backing is winning, and eventually will win. The West will not give full backing to the rebels but are sending in arms etc..thus prolonging the conflict further.The "rebels" consist of about 50 various militia groups, some of which are co-operating with each other some of which are not. Many of them are backed by Al-Khaida or other even worse terrorist groups including ISIS. Should the rebels actually win....look at post war Iraq and even worse Libya. Is the only way forward to accept an Assad victory and then take it from there with a political solution some time down the road?" I think that just about sums it up. | |||
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I think we will all need bucket loads of luck to survive him making America great again! | |||
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"There is no safe way forward for Syria now. Unfortunately there is something in the Arab makeup that is to be honest brutal. Not so long ago the Arab world was ruled by brutal men who were on the whole pro the industrialised world (be it east or west). However we all (east and west) decided to play politics in that region. The result being that we eventually removed those leaders and are now surprised to find they are being replaced by religious extremists who are totally anti the industrialised world. And it is not as if we had no warning of what was happening. First we screwed with Persia and the result was the Islamic State of Iran, the USA looked at that and thought we have to have a bit of that in Afghanistan and we got Al-Qaeda. Not satisfied with that we decided to remove Saddam sewing the seeds for the Shia militias which in turn spawned IS. Was that enough for us? Was it hell! We then decided to extend the carnage to Saharan and Sub-Saharan Africa giving us the likes of Boko Haram! Our political leaders are self absorbed idiots who are all willing to 'pay the blood price' that is demanded by the USA, and the USA refuses to give any Democrat president real power but lap up Republican B movie black hats and halfwits Presidents. Now we are going to have our first reality TV president...
I think we will all need bucket loads of luck to survive him making America great again!"Agree with a lot of that but the US leaders of both parties have been doing it,look at clinton she just wanted to have a go to get one over putin. The arabs do indeed live by different ideals to us and perhaps we should keep out altogether and let them sort their own problems because we just make them worse | |||
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"Agree with a lot of that but the US leaders of both parties have been doing it,look at clinton she just wanted to have a go to get one over putin. The arabs do indeed live by different ideals to us and perhaps we should keep out altogether and let them sort their own problems because we just make them worse" I would say you are being unfair to Clinton (but I understand your point of view). I would suggest that history will be a lot kinder to her than you and most people are at the moment. I would further suggest that far from being the hawk that she is portrayed as, she is (and has been) the victim of a war started by JdoublU, and a Republican Congress that has hampered and blocked all efforts of the Obama administration to close Guantanamo and extricate the USA from the last administrations disastrous Arab expedition. | |||
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"Agree with a lot of that but the US leaders of both parties have been doing it,look at clinton she just wanted to have a go to get one over putin. The arabs do indeed live by different ideals to us and perhaps we should keep out altogether and let them sort their own problems because we just make them worse I would say you are being unfair to Clinton (but I understand your point of view). I would suggest that history will be a lot kinder to her than you and most people are at the moment. I would further suggest that far from being the hawk that she is portrayed as, she is (and has been) the victim of a war started by JdoublU, and a Republican Congress that has hampered and blocked all efforts of the Obama administration to close Guantanamo and extricate the USA from the last administrations disastrous Arab expedition. " . Will I like you but honestly that's just bollocks!. For starters Obama withdrew and went back into Iraq then bombed Libya and Syria while bringing drone warfare to everybody else including the Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan.. Now maybe Mrs Clinton wasn't keen on war as you suggest or maybe she just liked dancing around screaming and clapping her hands after Gaddafis death, maybe she had fuck all to do with the death of the Libyan ambassador, maybe all those emails will let historians see her use all that speech money and Arab money into her foundation for honourable things? Who knows. What I can tell you is Obama and Clinton have spent 8 years in power and seen record fossil fuel usage, locked up jounalists for oil pipeline protest coverage, overseen the largest increase in fracking under any administration.... Fuck me even her husband bill locked up more black people than George w.... And no I'm not saying George w was good. I'm saying lefties, it's about time you took your hands from over your eyes and looked at what you voted for???? | |||
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"Agree with a lot of that but the US leaders of both parties have been doing it,look at clinton she just wanted to have a go to get one over putin. The arabs do indeed live by different ideals to us and perhaps we should keep out altogether and let them sort their own problems because we just make them worse I would say you are being unfair to Clinton (but I understand your point of view). I would suggest that history will be a lot kinder to her than you and most people are at the moment. I would further suggest that far from being the hawk that she is portrayed as, she is (and has been) the victim of a war started by JdoublU, and a Republican Congress that has hampered and blocked all efforts of the Obama administration to close Guantanamo and extricate the USA from the last administrations disastrous Arab expedition. . Will I like you but honestly that's just bollocks!. For starters Obama withdrew and went back into Iraq then bombed Libya and Syria while bringing drone warfare to everybody else including the Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan.. Now maybe Mrs Clinton wasn't keen on war as you suggest or maybe she just liked dancing around screaming and clapping her hands after Gaddafis death, maybe she had fuck all to do with the death of the Libyan ambassador, maybe all those emails will let historians see her use all that speech money and Arab money into her foundation for honourable things? Who knows. What I can tell you is Obama and Clinton have spent 8 years in power and seen record fossil fuel usage, locked up jounalists for oil pipeline protest coverage, overseen the largest increase in fracking under any administration.... Fuck me even her husband bill locked up more black people than George w.... And no I'm not saying George w was good. I'm saying lefties, it's about time you took your hands from over your eyes and looked at what you voted for????"  agreed | |||
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"Will I like you but honestly that's just bollocks!. For starters Obama withdrew and went back into Iraq then bombed Libya and Syria while bringing drone warfare to everybody else including the Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan.. Now maybe Mrs Clinton wasn't keen on war as you suggest or maybe she just liked dancing around screaming and clapping her hands after Gaddafis death, maybe she had fuck all to do with the death of the Libyan ambassador, maybe all those emails will let historians see her use all that speech money and Arab money into her foundation for honourable things? Who knows. What I can tell you is Obama and Clinton have spent 8 years in power and seen record fossil fuel usage, locked up jounalists for oil pipeline protest coverage, overseen the largest increase in fracking under any administration.... Fuck me even her husband bill locked up more black people than George w.... And no I'm not saying George w was good. I'm saying lefties, it's about time you took your hands from over your eyes and looked at what you voted for????" Again, I understand how you feel and where your anger comes from. But I genuinely don't believe that the Obama administration is to blame for much of what has happened in its time in power. From once conflicts start they take on a life of their own and it is virtually impossible to withdraw from a conflict until one side has been totally defeated. It is my belief that the whole Middle Eastern conflagration is the result of the 2003 Iraq invasion, and that the use of conventional airstrikes and unmanned drones across the region was a misguided attempt to reduce US military involvement while keeping up an appearance of doing something to limit the spread of the conflict. Sadly like all such attempts by politicians to manage conflict it failed miserably. In fact a whole section of a 2700 year old war manual (The Art of War by Sun Tzu) is given over to how politicians hobble armies and lose wars. It is a shame that those who need to read it and learn its lessons refuse to on a regular basis. | |||
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"There is no safe way forward for Syria now. Unfortunately there is something in the Arab makeup that is to be honest brutal. Not so long ago the Arab world was ruled by brutal men who were on the whole pro the industrialised world (be it east or west). However we all (east and west) decided to play politics in that region. The result being that we eventually removed those leaders and are now surprised to find they are being replaced by religious extremists who are totally anti the industrialised world. And it is not as if we had no warning of what was happening. First we screwed with Persia and the result was the Islamic State of Iran, the USA looked at that and thought we have to have a bit of that in Afghanistan and we got Al-Qaeda. Not satisfied with that we decided to remove Saddam sewing the seeds for the Shia militias which in turn spawned IS. Was that enough for us? Was it hell! We then decided to extend the carnage to Saharan and Sub-Saharan Africa giving us the likes of Boko Haram! Our political leaders are self absorbed idiots who are all willing to 'pay the blood price' that is demanded by the USA, and the USA refuses to give any Democrat president real power but lap up Republican B movie black hats and halfwits Presidents. Now we are going to have our first reality TV president...
I think we will all need bucket loads of luck to survive him making America great again!
Agree with a lot of that but the US leaders of both parties have been doing it,look at clinton she just wanted to have a go to get one over putin.
The arabs do indeed live by different ideals to us and perhaps we should keep out altogether and let them sort their own problems because we just make them worse" | |||
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"There is no safe way forward for Syria now. Unfortunately there is something in the Arab makeup that is to be honest brutal. Not so long ago the Arab world was ruled by brutal men who were on the whole pro the industrialised world (be it east or west). However we all (east and west) decided to play politics in that region. The result being that we eventually removed those leaders and are now surprised to find they are being replaced by religious extremists who are totally anti the industrialised world. And it is not as if we had no warning of what was happening. First we screwed with Persia and the result was the Islamic State of Iran, the USA looked at that and thought we have to have a bit of that in Afghanistan and we got Al-Qaeda. Not satisfied with that we decided to remove Saddam sewing the seeds for the Shia militias which in turn spawned IS. Was that enough for us? Was it hell! We then decided to extend the carnage to Saharan and Sub-Saharan Africa giving us the likes of Boko Haram! Our political leaders are self absorbed idiots who are all willing to 'pay the blood price' that is demanded by the USA, and the USA refuses to give any Democrat president real power but lap up Republican B movie black hats and halfwits Presidents. Now we are going to have our first reality TV president...
I think we will all need bucket loads of luck to survive him making America great again!"Not sure this is entirely a true summary of events. How did "we" screw Persia? What did the Americans do in Afghanistan that the Russians didn't do beforehand and how is a Sunni militia connected to the Iranian Shia state? How do you make the connection between Shia militias turning into IS? IS is a Salafist Sunni Muslim terrorist organisation who mission in life (amongst other things) is to kill all Shia Muslims. What carnage did "we" inflict on Saharan and sub Saharan Africa? | |||
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"How did "we" screw Persia? What did the Americans do in Afghanistan that the Russians didn't do beforehand and how is a Sunni militia connected to the Iranian Shia state? How do you make the connection between Shia militias turning into IS? IS is a Salafist Sunni Muslim terrorist organisation who mission in life (amongst other things) is to kill all Shia Muslims. What carnage did "we" inflict on Saharan and sub Saharan Africa?" OK, my fault, i was not clear enough in my original post. We (UK and USA) screwed Persia by firstly backing a coup d'état and installing what was effectively a puppet government so that BP could gain access to Iranian oil. We further fucked the country by giving political asylum to the man who was the figurehead of the insurgency against that government, one Ruhollah Khomeini, that's the Ayatollah Khomeini. The man who labelled the USA as the Great Satan and the UK as the Little Satan. So effectively we engineered a coup and then supported both the regime we had put in place and its opposition so that we could get at its oil. I think that is sort of the definition of how to screw a country! Would you not agree? The above led to the first anti western radicalisation of the Shias. Not satisfied with that, when the Soviets gave asked for aid to a stable (but socialist) Afghan government that was attempting to bring law and order to the tribal areas of their country, the Yanks, organised, financed, trained, armed and aided the mujahideen (the first jehadist, in fact that is the meaning of mujahideen), which ironically is the organisation from which Suni inspired Al Qaeda was conceived and born. Then we come to Iraq, a Suni controlled country that we supported in its 10 year war with Shia Iran (see above) in which something round a million Iranians (Shia) died, and some half million Iraqis (Suni). So what did we do there? Well in 1991/2 after the first gulf war we encouraged the Marsh Arabs (Shia) to rise up and then abandoned them to their fate. That fate was to have Sadam drain the marshes and persecute them. Not a policy designed to make us friends! Then in 2003 we invaded, destroyed the countries infrastructure and dismantled its (Suni dominated) security system. Result, more angry hate filled people wanting revenge and even more radical and violent groups being formed on all sides. IS did not come into being out of the Shia militias but as a Suni reply in kind to the Shia militias. And like it or not since we overthrew the Ottoman Empire in 1918 our politicians (east and west) have seen the Middle East as some sort of playground where they can play power games without having to worry about consequences. Unfortunately the results of the last 100 years are now beginning to come home to roost, and rather than stop our politicians have decided that screwing the Middle East is not enough so they have spread their playground to the whole of the North African Arab world and are looking for ways to extend it to the whole Islamic world! | |||
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"He was time man of the year in the 50s Mohammed mossedagh!. Overthrown by Churchill and teddy Roosevelts nephew who if I remember correctly was called Kermit "Funny how nationalising British and US business assets can turn a great men into a pariahs. | |||
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"He was time man of the year in the 50s Mohammed mossedagh!. Overthrown by Churchill and teddy Roosevelts nephew who if I remember correctly was called Kermit
Funny how nationalising British and US business assets can turn a great men into a pariahs.". That's one of the reasons I've always advocated getting out of the fossil fuel industry  | |||
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"What I posted for was the way FORWARD not what has already happened. There is no way the west will put "boots on the ground". Supporting one or other group of rebels only antagonises others...so that makes it worse and simply delays their inevitable defeat. Assad troops have, since my first post now talked over a third of Eastern Aleppo from the rebels....could take the rest in a week? Time to step back, accept the inevitable and look fir the political solutions....though with the Russians behind him, don't expect Assad to be going any time soon. One thing Assad and the Russians will do...is crush ISIS in Syria." My original point was that i do not see a way forward for Syria. It is my belief that Assad and the Syrian Baathist Party have been so damaged that it is now impossible for them to rebuild a stable state and society. I justified this by showing interference in Arab politics by the industrialised world has continually followed the same model and failed every time. There is a real truth in the adage: 'If you fail to learn from your mistakes you will repeat them!' I think your first two sentences prove that rather eloquently. Although your last paragraph does show that there may actually be hope that we recognise we have dug ourselves a hole and are thinking about putting down the shovels. | |||
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"What I posted for was the way FORWARD not what has already happened. There is no way the west will put "boots on the ground". Supporting one or other group of rebels only antagonises others...so that makes it worse and simply delays their inevitable defeat. Assad troops have, since my first post now talked over a third of Eastern Aleppo from the rebels....could take the rest in a week? Time to step back, accept the inevitable and look fir the political solutions....though with the Russians behind him, don't expect Assad to be going any time soon. One thing Assad and the Russians will do...is crush ISIS in Syria. My original point was that i do not see a way forward for Syria. It is my belief that Assad and the Syrian Baathist Party have been so damaged that it is now impossible for them to rebuild a stable state and society. I justified this by showing interference in Arab politics by the industrialised world has continually followed the same model and failed every time. There is a real truth in the adage: 'If you fail to learn from your mistakes you will repeat them!' I think your first two sentences prove that rather eloquently. Although your last paragraph does show that there may actually be hope that we recognise we have dug ourselves a hole and are thinking about putting down the shovels." Syrian Baathist Party? | |||
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"Syrian Baathist Party?" Yep... Didn't you know that Assad and his government are Baathists? | |||
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"Syrian Baathist Party? Yep... Didn't you know that Assad and his government are Baathists?" . Socialists Arabs!! Who'd have guessed | |||
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"How did "we" screw Persia? What did the Americans do in Afghanistan that the Russians didn't do beforehand and how is a Sunni militia connected to the Iranian Shia state? How do you make the connection between Shia militias turning into IS? IS is a Salafist Sunni Muslim terrorist organisation who mission in life (amongst other things) is to kill all Shia Muslims. What carnage did "we" inflict on Saharan and sub Saharan Africa? OK, my fault, i was not clear enough in my original post. We (UK and USA) screwed Persia by firstly backing a coup d'état and installing what was effectively a puppet government so that BP could gain access to Iranian oil. We further fucked the country by giving political asylum to the man who was the figurehead of the insurgency against that government, one Ruhollah Khomeini, that's the Ayatollah Khomeini. The man who labelled the USA as the Great Satan and the UK as the Little Satan. So effectively we engineered a coup and then supported both the regime we had put in place and its opposition so that we could get at its oil. I think that is sort of the definition of how to screw a country! Would you not agree? The above led to the first anti western radicalisation of the Shias. Not satisfied with that, when the Soviets gave asked for aid to a stable (but socialist) Afghan government that was attempting to bring law and order to the tribal areas of their country, the Yanks, organised, financed, trained, armed and aided the mujahideen (the first jehadist, in fact that is the meaning of mujahideen), which ironically is the organisation from which Suni inspired Al Qaeda was conceived and born. Then we come to Iraq, a Suni controlled country that we supported in its 10 year war with Shia Iran (see above) in which something round a million Iranians (Shia) died, and some half million Iraqis (Suni). So what did we do there? Well in 1991/2 after the first gulf war we encouraged the Marsh Arabs (Shia) to rise up and then abandoned them to their fate. That fate was to have Sadam drain the marshes and persecute them. Not a policy designed to make us friends! Then in 2003 we invaded, destroyed the countries infrastructure and dismantled its (Suni dominated) security system. Result, more angry hate filled people wanting revenge and even more radical and violent groups being formed on all sides. IS did not come into being out of the Shia militias but as a Suni reply in kind to the Shia militias. And like it or not since we overthrew the Ottoman Empire in 1918 our politicians (east and west) have seen the Middle East as some sort of playground where they can play power games without having to worry about consequences. Unfortunately the results of the last 100 years are now beginning to come home to roost, and rather than stop our politicians have decided that screwing the Middle East is not enough so they have spread their playground to the whole of the North African Arab world and are looking for ways to extend it to the whole Islamic world! " Are you the only clued up person on this thread? | |||
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