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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948 | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948"no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948"guess you missed the results: United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016 Votes% Leave 17,410,742 51.89% Remain 16,141,241 48.11% Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92% Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08% | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
"What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen. It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there. But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up. -Matt | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt"If you thought that up yourself, give yourself a pat on the back  very clever.
The realities of the world will have an impact on what happens and it is far more likely that the EU itself will have manifestly changed over the next two years than the UK leaving the form of EU that it marginally voted to leave.
Of course there will still be a hard core of self flegellationists who will demand that they be made poorer and have less friends because of their democratic right to not want to change their mind under any circumstances. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
"You do know the referendum is only advisory Guess you missed that bit | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt
If you thought that up yourself, give yourself a pat on the back very clever.
The realities of the world will have an impact on what happens and it is far more likely that the EU itself will have manifestly changed over the next two years than the UK leaving the form of EU that it marginally voted to leave.
Of course there will still be a hard core of self flegellationists who will demand that they be made poorer and have less friends because of their democratic right to not want to change their mind under any circumstances."lol yes I did and, why thank you 
I tried to keep it as factual and un-opinionated as possible. Hopefully there is nothing in it that either side can actually dispute.
The bit that bugs me the most is the 30,000 extra civil servant that we will supposedly need (in today's press). I've nothing against civil servants themselves... and you could say this will be very successful boost to job creation... all those civil servant, lawyers, economists, negotiators and consultants that we will need. I bet Mr Average John Smith trying to make ends meet at the moment will be so glad to see it. I'm pretty sure Theresa May said she would hire them all in Sunderland didn't she? 
-Matt | |||
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" The bit that bugs me the most is the 30,000 extra civil servant that we will supposedly need (in today's press). I've nothing against civil servants themselves... and you could say this will be very successful boost to job creation... all those civil servant, lawyers, economists, negotiators and consultants that we will need. I bet Mr Average John Smith trying to make ends meet at the moment will be so glad to see it. I'm pretty sure Theresa May said she would hire them all in Sunderland didn't she?
-Matt"Well if we are to leave the EU & we do require this 30,000 extra civil servants to achieve it & if Mr average John Smith voted to leave then he should well be bloody chuffed, cos he'll be getting what if bloody well voted for | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ?" You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt
If you thought that up yourself, give yourself a pat on the back very clever.
The realities of the world will have an impact on what happens and it is far more likely that the EU itself will have manifestly changed over the next two years than the UK leaving the form of EU that it marginally voted to leave.
Of course there will still be a hard core of self flegellationists who will demand that they be made poorer and have less friends because of their democratic right to not want to change their mind under any circumstances."I'll be surprised if the EU even still exists in 2 years time. It could collapse before we get chance to Brexit. You also claimed inflation would go up, as did many of the so called experts, but figures released today show inflation dropped from the month September to October 2016. Yet again the so called experts have got it wrong. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way."The incompetence of Cameron and Osborne really is quite staggering. Yet another example of the career politicians letting the people down and not doing their job properly. | |||
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"I agreed with the vote and result. The other option was to stay In the EU with people like junker telling us you can't do this or that sat in his untouchable ivory tower. It's about time the commission was put under audit so we can see what actually goes on. " It's about time the EU commission was abolished and we had a free and prosperous Europe of Independent nation states. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt"I genuinely think this is one of the best analogys I have ever heard | |||
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"? Why would we need a plan? It's quite simple. But cheer up guys, better to be disillusioned at the start of a journey than at the end of it eh ""quite simple" Oh goody, glad you think so. 30,000 extra civil servants simple? And yes, I am disillusioned at the start of the journey as so far I've been given no reason not to be, other than "trust us, we'll be fine" for politicians that repeatdly show they haven't a clue what they are doing or where they are going with this. What I still don't get is why those who voted to leave are not just as disillusioned either... they don't seem to have been given any specific reassurances that their specific vision of Brexit is what is going to happen. Closest they get is "Brexit means brexit". -Matt | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way.
The incompetence of Cameron and Osborne really is quite staggering. Yet another example of the career politicians letting the people down and not doing their job properly. " | |||
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| Reply privately |
"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt
If you thought that up yourself, give yourself a pat on the back very clever.
The realities of the world will have an impact on what happens and it is far more likely that the EU itself will have manifestly changed over the next two years than the UK leaving the form of EU that it marginally voted to leave.
Of course there will still be a hard core of self flegellationists who will demand that they be made poorer and have less friends because of their democratic right to not want to change their mind under any circumstances.
I'll be surprised if the EU even still exists in 2 years time. It could collapse before we get chance to Brexit. You also claimed inflation would go up, as did many of the so called experts, but figures released today show inflation dropped from the month September to October 2016. Yet again the so called experts have got it wrong. "I'm sure you have read the complete inflation report (as I have this morning) and if you have you will have noticed TWO clear inflation indicators that were announced, One being that factory output prices rose by 2.1% and the other that retailers are simply working on stock ordered and purchased Nine to Twelve months ago. That's the way retail works, order books are compiled at least two seasons ahead of themselves, and in many sectors three or four seasons beforehand. It's the prices that retailers and wholesalers are paying NOW that will impact upon inflation in months to come. Imports of goods and raw materials HAVE risen considerably over the last Three months and WILL impact upon retail prices in 2017. | |||
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"? Why would we need a plan? It's quite simple. But cheer up guys, better to be disillusioned at the start of a journey than at the end of it eh
"quite simple" Oh goody, glad you think so. 30,000 extra civil servants simple?
And yes, I am disillusioned at the start of the journey as so far I've been given no reason not to be, other than "trust us, we'll be fine" for politicians that repeatdly show they haven't a clue what they are doing or where they are going with this.
What I still don't get is why those who voted to leave are not just as disillusioned either... they don't seem to have been given any specific reassurances that their specific vision of Brexit is what is going to happen. Closest they get is "Brexit means brexit".
-Matt"Yes we are going into the unknown but we HAVE a choice as to what that unknown will be once we are out of the EU, we know what its like in the EU and a lot of us don't like it because we don't have a choice. We have to do what the EU says like it or not, once we are out of the EU we can make our own decisions and laws. I don't think for a minute that it is going to be easy for the first few years but I think in 5 to 10 years time we will all be glad we left. | |||
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"? Why would we need a plan? It's quite simple. But cheer up guys, better to be disillusioned at the start of a journey than at the end of it eh
"quite simple" Oh goody, glad you think so. 30,000 extra civil servants simple?
And yes, I am disillusioned at the start of the journey as so far I've been given no reason not to be, other than "trust us, we'll be fine" for politicians that repeatdly show they haven't a clue what they are doing or where they are going with this.
What I still don't get is why those who voted to leave are not just as disillusioned either... they don't seem to have been given any specific reassurances that their specific vision of Brexit is what is going to happen. Closest they get is "Brexit means brexit".
-Matt
Yes we are going into the unknown but we HAVE a choice as to what that unknown will be once we are out of the EU, we know what its like in the EU and a lot of us don't like it because we don't have a choice. We have to do what the EU says like it or not, once we are out of the EU we can make our own decisions and laws.
I don't think for a minute that it is going to be easy for the first few years but I think in 5 to 10 years time we will all be glad we left."
I'd rather we be masters of our own destiny than a slave to someone else's. | |||
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"? Why would we need a plan? It's quite simple. But cheer up guys, better to be disillusioned at the start of a journey than at the end of it eh
"quite simple" Oh goody, glad you think so. 30,000 extra civil servants simple?
And yes, I am disillusioned at the start of the journey as so far I've been given no reason not to be, other than "trust us, we'll be fine" for politicians that repeatdly show they haven't a clue what they are doing or where they are going with this.
What I still don't get is why those who voted to leave are not just as disillusioned either... they don't seem to have been given any specific reassurances that their specific vision of Brexit is what is going to happen. Closest they get is "Brexit means brexit".
-Matt
Yes we are going into the unknown but we HAVE a choice as to what that unknown will be once we are out of the EU, we know what its like in the EU and a lot of us don't like it because we don't have a choice. We have to do what the EU says like it or not, once we are out of the EU we can make our own decisions and laws.
I don't think for a minute that it is going to be easy for the first few years but I think in 5 to 10 years time we will all be glad we left.
I'd rather we be masters of our own destiny than a slave to someone else's. "Totally agree. | |||
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"Naughty story by the BBC since 'the memo' is from an external accountancy firm and their interpretation, not a government internal memo from anyone of note. Of course the BBC like the content and will give it good publicity." It originally came from the times not the BBC. | |||
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" It's the prices that retailers and wholesalers are paying NOW that will impact upon inflation in months to come. Imports of goods and raw materials HAVE risen considerably over the last Three months and WILL impact upon retail prices in 2017." Good point, due to Brexit, the Bank of England predicts inflation to be ahead of its 2% target at 2.7% next year and 2.5% in 2015. If I'm going to see my outgoings go up by 0.7% , lets forget the whole thing and give control back to the EU. I'm not spending any extra on doing the right thing. | |||
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"Naughty story by the BBC since 'the memo' is from an external accountancy firm and their interpretation, not a government internal memo from anyone of note. Of course the BBC like the content and will give it good publicity. It originally came from the times not the BBC." OK, same principle though, bumped by the BBC | |||
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"Naughty story by the BBC since 'the memo' is from an external accountancy firm and their interpretation, not a government internal memo from anyone of note. Of course the BBC like the content and will give it good publicity. It originally came from the times not the BBC. OK, same principle though, bumped by the BBC" But it is the main story in every news outlet, except the mail, express, star and sun. it's news of course they should report it. | |||
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" It originally came from the times not the BBC. OK, same principle though, bumped by the BBC But it is the main story in every news outlet, except the mail, express, star and sun. it's news of course they should report it." I've not looked on the others. It just seems like they might as well leak my memo about our military plans to re-colonise the USA. | |||
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" It originally came from the times not the BBC. OK, same principle though, bumped by the BBC But it is the main story in every news outlet, except the mail, express, star and sun. it's news of course they should report it. I've not looked on the others. It just seems like they might as well leak my memo about our military plans to re-colonise the USA." I think you should just go ahead with your plans straight away or some judges may stop you and have them scrutinised parliament | |||
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" I've not looked on the others. It just seems like they might as well leak my memo about our military plans to re-colonise the USA. I think you should just go ahead with your plans straight away or some judges may stop you and have them scrutinised parliament "My plans are well under way, but they are top secret. We will land in Virginia and sweep the country while they are distracted building a wall on the southern border. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt"Never realised that trains travelled by road..... | |||
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"Naughty story by the BBC since 'the memo' is from an external accountancy firm and their interpretation, not a government internal memo from anyone of note. Of course the BBC like the content and will give it good publicity." it came from a Times reporter. | |||
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"Naughty story by the BBC since 'the memo' is from an external accountancy firm and their interpretation, not a government internal memo from anyone of note. Of course the BBC like the content and will give it good publicity. it came from a Times reporter." Deja vu.... done this bit, above | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
You do know the referendum is only advisory
Guess you missed that bit "Bollocks | |||
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"? Why would we need a plan? It's quite simple. But cheer up guys, better to be disillusioned at the start of a journey than at the end of it eh
"quite simple" Oh goody, glad you think so. 30,000 extra civil servants simple?
And yes, I am disillusioned at the start of the journey as so far I've been given no reason not to be, other than "trust us, we'll be fine" for politicians that repeatdly show they haven't a clue what they are doing or where they are going with this.
What I still don't get is why those who voted to leave are not just as disillusioned either... they don't seem to have been given any specific reassurances that their specific vision of Brexit is what is going to happen. Closest they get is "Brexit means brexit".
-Matt
Yes we are going into the unknown but we HAVE a choice as to what that unknown will be once we are out of the EU, we know what its like in the EU and a lot of us don't like it because we don't have a choice. We have to do what the EU says like it or not, once we are out of the EU we can make omillionur own decisions and laws.
I don't think for a minute that it is going to be easy for the first few years but I think in 5 to 10 years time we will all be glad we left.
I'd rather we be masters of our own destiny than a slave to someone else's. "But this is the fallacy that you have fallen for, and repeatedly fall for. Now you don't like decisions taken in Brussels, all that will happen in the future is you won't like the decisions taken in London. Its like Scottish nationalists trying to con themselves that they hate the decisions taken in London and will love the decisions taken in Edinburgh. Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either." The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult. | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult." The Brexiters view is that a bad law written in London is somehow better than a good law written in Brussels, and I just can't agree with that. | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult. The Brexiters view is that a bad law written in London is somehow better than a good law written in Brussels, and I just can't agree with that." There are some great laws written in Brussels. Just vote for a party that will implement such things here, rather than delegating it to a body where we only represent about 10% of the electorate. What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in."Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult. The Brexiters view is that a bad law written in London is somehow better than a good law written in Brussels, and I just can't agree with that. There are some great laws written in Brussels. Just vote for a party that will implement such things here, rather than delegating it to a body where we only represent about 10% of the electorate. What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? " But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land"HAHO and HALO jumps | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult. The Brexiters view is that a bad law written in London is somehow better than a good law written in Brussels, and I just can't agree with that. There are some great laws written in Brussels. Just vote for a party that will implement such things here, rather than delegating it to a body where we only represent about 10% of the electorate. What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? " Don't forget to also look at the flip side of that. E.g. the current IP Bill going through parliament. The government has tried to get the "Snoopers Charter" through several times under several different governments, but the EU has been a force to help protect us from our own govt's crazy (and totally unworkable, and in-effective) ideas. -Matt | |||
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" What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? " So do you prefer to centralise power or devolve it? | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt"you do realise that the majority of UK voted to leave, if this does not happen, it will be the end of all elections & referendums as the majority of UK will stick two fingers up to any future election or referendum cant you see that, or is your head still in the sand | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult. The Brexiters view is that a bad law written in London is somehow better than a good law written in Brussels, and I just can't agree with that. There are some great laws written in Brussels. Just vote for a party that will implement such things here, rather than delegating it to a body where we only represent about 10% of the electorate. What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? Don't forget to also look at the flip side of that. E.g. the current IP Bill going through parliament. The government has tried to get the "Snoopers Charter" through several times under several different governments, but the EU has been a force to help protect us from our own govt's crazy (and totally unworkable, and in-effective) ideas. -Matt" And the Brexit minister sued the now PM in the European courts that he doesn't believe in!  | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt
you do realise that the majority of UK voted to leave,
if this does not happen, it will be the end of all elections & referendums as the majority of UK will stick two fingers up to any future election or referendum
cant you see that, or is your head still in the sand"I do realise that. Did you not read the very FIRST sentence I wrote above? I don't particularly care how many voted to leave or stay. That argument is done and dusted. Move on. My ENTIRE point above is that we are now on this journey with no plan at all as to how we get there, or where we are going. Do you not understand that? -Matt | |||
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" What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? So do you prefer to centralise power or devolve it?" Centralise it, and share sovereignty and make things better for all. The logical conclusion of devolving power is to devolve it down to the individual where everyone choses which laws they want to obey and that would be anarchy. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps"and your point is!!!! when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required 30,000ft bollocks, full of shit, keep on using google but also try to be realistic | |||
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" And the Brexit minister sued the now PM in the European courts that he doesn't believe in! "Indeed. It is crazy. -Matt | |||
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" Don't forget to also look at the flip side of that. E.g. the current IP Bill going through parliament. The government has tried to get the "Snoopers Charter" through several times under several different governments, but the EU has been a force to help protect us from our own govt's crazy (and totally unworkable, and in-effective) ideas. -Matt" I don't say or think, everything the EU does is crap, and everything we do and say is good. I did actually write the EU has passed lots of good legislation. But that can cut both ways. I'm taking about what is fundamentally right. I think it is better to have UK (or English as it might be) based law making. That's the top and bottom of it for me. | |||
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" And the Brexit minister sued the now PM in the European courts that he doesn't believe in!
Indeed. It is crazy.
-Matt"Really he doesn't believe in it for us plebs (especially if we might want to challenge decisions HE makes), but he thinks he should be able to use it when he doesn't like what the government is doing. | |||
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" What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? So do you prefer to centralise power or devolve it? Centralise it, and share sovereignty and make things better for all. The logical conclusion of devolving power is to devolve it down to the individual where everyone choses which laws they want to obey and that would be anarchy." It would be anarchy, yes. I think the current level of devolution i.e to the Uk, or even to England is Ok, no further. I could take an equally silly 'logical' conclusion to centralisation and say do you want a worldwide government. But, I'm not trying to belittle your ideas, just express what I think. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic"It was only an analogy, try not to take it too seriously. I think even you could grasp the point they were making. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic
It was only an analogy, try not to take it too seriously. I think even you could grasp the point they were making."obviously no clue with regards to sky diving, so why choose a point where they have no idea or clue what they are talking about, guess the same could go for many replies & comments on this thread armchair MP's or wish they were | |||
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" What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? So do you prefer to centralise power or devolve it? Centralise it, and share sovereignty and make things better for all. The logical conclusion of devolving power is to devolve it down to the individual where everyone choses which laws they want to obey and that would be anarchy. It would be anarchy, yes. I think the current level of devolution i.e to the Uk, or even to England is Ok, no further. I could take an equally silly 'logical' conclusion to centralisation and say do you want a worldwide government. But, I'm not trying to belittle your ideas, just express what I think." I think a world wide government would be better than what we have today. The nation state is becoming an outdated concept. Wars are not fought between nation states anymore, they are usually international coalitions vs non-state actors. Businesses are increasingly international in their operations. There are international groups such as ASEAN, the EU, the African Union etc. World issues such as climate change do not recognise international boundaries, and need to be tackled internationally. | |||
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" I think a world wide government would be better than what we have today. The nation state is becoming an outdated concept. Wars are not fought between nation states anymore, they are usually international coalitions vs non-state actors. Businesses are increasingly international in their operations. There are international groups such as ASEAN, the EU, the African Union etc. World issues such as climate change do not recognise international boundaries, and need to be tackled internationally." OK, I understand what you mean. But, I don't think the things you mention equate to the advantage of a worldwide central government. I definitely don't want that. Our population is small compared to the EU and tiny compared to the world. I want as close as sensible control of our laws. i.e UK type level | |||
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" I think a world wide government would be better than what we have today. The nation state is becoming an outdated concept. Wars are not fought between nation states anymore, they are usually international coalitions vs non-state actors. Businesses are increasingly international in their operations. There are international groups such as ASEAN, the EU, the African Union etc. World issues such as climate change do not recognise international boundaries, and need to be tackled internationally. OK, I understand what you mean. But, I don't think the things you mention equate to the advantage of a worldwide central government. I definitely don't want that. Our population is small compared to the EU and tiny compared to the world. I want as close as sensible control of our laws. i.e UK type level" If everyone was happy with the laws from the EU there wouldn't be a problem would there? The issue is though that not everyone is happy with the laws from the EU. It's at that stage that people like Farage come along and spread the fallacy that if only the laws were made locally, that you would suddenly all love the laws, but its just not true. It doesn't matter where decisions are made, at a UN Level, EU, National, county, district parish or even in your own living room deciding what to watch. You are never going to be happy with all the decisions. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic
It was only an analogy, try not to take it too seriously. I think even you could grasp the point they were making.
obviously no clue with regards to sky diving, so why choose a point where they have no idea or clue what they are talking about, guess the same could go for many replies & comments on this thread
armchair MP's or wish they were"At least CLCC seems to be ignoring the sky diving experts. | |||
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" I don't think the things you mention equate to the advantage of a worldwide central government. I definitely don't want that. " I don't think you have seriously taken the time to fully consider the amount of bank holidays we would have if we had all the world's religion's taken into account either. | |||
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" What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? So do you prefer to centralise power or devolve it? Centralise it, and share sovereignty and make things better for all. The logical conclusion of devolving power is to devolve it down to the individual where everyone choses which laws they want to obey and that would be anarchy." We had a referendum though and the majority rejected centralisation of power in Brussels and sharing of sovereignty. The UK will leave the EU and we will be an independent nation state. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic
It was only an analogy, try not to take it too seriously. I think even you could grasp the point they were making.
obviously no clue with regards to sky diving, so why choose a point where they have no idea or clue what they are talking about, guess the same could go for many replies & comments on this thread
armchair MP's or wish they were
At least CLCC seems to be ignoring the sky diving experts. ""In typical HALO/HAHO insertions the troops jump from altitudes between 15,000 feet (4,600 m) and 35,000 feet (11,000 m)." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_military_parachuting | |||
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" If everyone was happy with the laws from the EU there wouldn't be a problem would there? The issue is though that not everyone is happy with the laws from the EU. It's at that stage that people like Farage come along and spread the fallacy that if only the laws were made locally, that you would suddenly all love the laws, but its just not true. It doesn't matter where decisions are made, at a UN Level, EU, National, county, district parish or even in your own living room deciding what to watch. You are never going to be happy with all the decisions." Well I dont know if he made that out or not. I don't know or care. What i do know is there is a greater possibility to influence uk made decisions than there is of EU / UN decisions. You might not be happy with your choice of TV at the moment. But it would seem odd to want to include the Street/ town / china in the decision making process. | |||
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" What happens when they are writing laws that the majority here disagree with passionately? What would we do then? But say there is a law passed in London that the vast majority of Cambridge disagree with passionately, what would we do then? So do you prefer to centralise power or devolve it? Centralise it, and share sovereignty and make things better for all. The logical conclusion of devolving power is to devolve it down to the individual where everyone choses which laws they want to obey and that would be anarchy. We had a referendum though and the majority rejected centralisation of power in Brussels and sharing of sovereignty. The UK will leave the EU and we will be an independent nation state. "IF we leave, the UK won't survive it. | |||
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" IF we leave, the UK won't survive it. " You mean the Union? | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way."but neither did the leave side, which although Farage thought they wouldn't win would have been part of an effective strategy.. both sides were lax.. | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks "So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right? | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks
So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right? "Of course there is a plan developing and its even more obvious that keeping it private is important,deloitte have admitted it was made up and nomention whatsoever on the main news, so despite pushing it hard all day the BBC arent going to correct the missinformation oh and did you see that google have announced confirmation of a new HQ for europe to be built where ?Not a good day for those who want to see the UK fail | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way.
but neither did the leave side, which although Farage thought they wouldn't win would have been part of an effective strategy..
both sides were lax.. "Vote Leave, Leave.eu and grassroots out were not part of the government. It was the job of government to come up with contingency plans for both outcomes of the referendum, which they failed miserably to do. Secondly if Theresa May and the government are too pig headed to use Nigel Farage's influence with Donald Trump on a trade deal what makes you think they would listen to Farage's plan for leaving the EU?  | |||
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"Naughty story by the BBC since 'the memo' is from an external accountancy firm and their interpretation, not a government internal memo from anyone of note. Of course the BBC like the content and will give it good publicity." Not only that, it looks as if it was looking for a way to describe how they could bid for work. I'm not sure I agree with other comments. If you're entering a negotiation you don't publish all of your red lines and movable goals in advance. Results of the referendum are advisory, like the referendum that took us into the EU in the first place then...... | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks
So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right?
Of course there is a plan developing and its even more obvious that keeping it private is important,deloitte have admitted it was made up and nomention whatsoever on the main news, so despite pushing it hard all day the BBC arent going to correct the missinformation oh and did you see that google have announced confirmation of a new HQ for europe to be built where ?Not a good day for those who want to see the UK fail "Lol
Really would have thought that the BBC (and the OP) would have learned their lessons by now? | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks
So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right?
Of course there is a plan developing and its even more obvious that keeping it private is important,deloitte have admitted it was made up and nomention whatsoever on the main news, so despite pushing it hard all day the BBC arent going to correct the missinformation oh and did you see that google have announced confirmation of a new HQ for europe to be built where ?Not a good day for those who want to see the UK fail
Lol
Really would have thought that the BBC (and the OP) would have learned their lessons by now? "And of course all those financial experts poor old CLCC loves predict inflation would go up this month, its fallen it really has been a bad day for him  | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks
So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right?
Of course there is a plan developing and its even more obvious that keeping it private is important,deloitte have admitted it was made up and nomention whatsoever on the main news, so despite pushing it hard all day the BBC arent going to correct the missinformation oh and did you see that google have announced confirmation of a new HQ for europe to be built where ?Not a good day for those who want to see the UK fail "See the UK fail? I think the vast majority of both the remain and leave camps want the UK to succeed. They just have different views on how to further that success. -Matt | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks
So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right?
Of course there is a plan developing and its even more obvious that keeping it private is important,deloitte have admitted it was made up and nomention whatsoever on the main news, so despite pushing it hard all day the BBC arent going to correct the missinformation oh and did you see that google have announced confirmation of a new HQ for europe to be built where ?Not a good day for those who want to see the UK fail
See the UK fail? I think the vast majority of both the remain and leave camps want the UK to succeed. They just have different views on how to further that success.
-Matt"Well perhaps they need to accept the democratic decision and pull together and make a success of brexit instead of carping from the side | |||
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"Oh dear dear dear it has just been admitted that this memo came from deloitte and they have admitted they have had no access to the cabinet or offical documents, let me guess did deloitte want to stay or leave ? What a shame for poor old CLCC been caught out again falling for the hype,just as well we poor old racists uneducated fools didnt produce such poor leaks
So you mean there is a plan then? So the government won't have a problems publishing it then, and proving the story is nonsense, right?
Of course there is a plan developing and its even more obvious that keeping it private is important,deloitte have admitted it was made up and nomention whatsoever on the main news, so despite pushing it hard all day the BBC arent going to correct the missinformation oh and did you see that google have announced confirmation of a new HQ for europe to be built where ?Not a good day for those who want to see the UK fail
See the UK fail? I think the vast majority of both the remain and leave camps want the UK to succeed. They just have different views on how to further that success.
-Matt
Well perhaps they need to accept the democratic decision and pull together and make a success of brexit instead of carping from the side "I totally agree with you. Now that the government has solicited the opinion of the people it can get on with proper parliamentary process and put forward a plan to parliament to be debated. -Matt | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way.
but neither did the leave side, which although Farage thought they wouldn't win would have been part of an effective strategy..
both sides were lax..
Vote Leave, Leave.eu and grassroots out were not part of the government. It was the job of government to come up with contingency plans for both outcomes of the referendum, which they failed miserably to do.
Secondly if Theresa May and the government are too pig headed to use Nigel Farage's influence with Donald Trump on a trade deal what makes you think they would listen to Farage's plan for leaving the EU? "They, the leave side whatever they were called wanted it in fact some like Cash and Farage have for years been saying it should be but its ok that they can do so and not have a plan or an idea for what they see the future of the country to be if they were successful.. no that is wrong.. actually maybe no one on the leave side, the voter's that is had the foresight to ask them 'what is your plan'.. does explain how post the result there was one old boy nearly in tears saying 'ive got my England back'.. you may say pig headed other's may say showing a bit of sense in not having some blatant self publicist who had no plan for the question he wanted asking.. | |||
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"Obviously Brexitiers are happy with simply "brexit means brexit", perhaps any more details than that would be too complicated for them to understand? ". You can,t let it drop can you CLCC, you still think everyone that voted leave is thick,next it will be racist,bigot etc.We will leave,of that I,m sure ?? | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way.
but neither did the leave side, which although Farage thought they wouldn't win would have been part of an effective strategy..
both sides were lax..
Vote Leave, Leave.eu and grassroots out were not part of the government. It was the job of government to come up with contingency plans for both outcomes of the referendum, which they failed miserably to do.
Secondly if Theresa May and the government are too pig headed to use Nigel Farage's influence with Donald Trump on a trade deal what makes you think they would listen to Farage's plan for leaving the EU?
They, the leave side whatever they were called wanted it in fact some like Cash and Farage have for years been saying it should be but its ok that they can do so and not have a plan or an idea for what they see the future of the country to be if they were successful..
no that is wrong..
actually maybe no one on the leave side, the voter's that is had the foresight to ask them 'what is your plan'..
does explain how post the result there was one old boy nearly in tears saying 'ive got my England back'..
you may say pig headed other's may say showing a bit of sense in not having some blatant self publicist who had no plan for the question he wanted asking.. "David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. | |||
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"Obviously Brexitiers are happy with simply "brexit means brexit", perhaps any more details than that would be too complicated for them to understand? . You can,t let it drop can you CLCC, you still think everyone that voted leave is thick,next it will be racist,bigot etc.We will leave,of that I,m sure ??"Yes we will. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way.
but neither did the leave side, which although Farage thought they wouldn't win would have been part of an effective strategy..
both sides were lax..
Vote Leave, Leave.eu and grassroots out were not part of the government. It was the job of government to come up with contingency plans for both outcomes of the referendum, which they failed miserably to do.
Secondly if Theresa May and the government are too pig headed to use Nigel Farage's influence with Donald Trump on a trade deal what makes you think they would listen to Farage's plan for leaving the EU?
They, the leave side whatever they were called wanted it in fact some like Cash and Farage have for years been saying it should be but its ok that they can do so and not have a plan or an idea for what they see the future of the country to be if they were successful..
no that is wrong..
actually maybe no one on the leave side, the voter's that is had the foresight to ask them 'what is your plan'..
does explain how post the result there was one old boy nearly in tears saying 'ive got my England back'..
you may say pig headed other's may say showing a bit of sense in not having some blatant self publicist who had no plan for the question he wanted asking..
David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. "I don't always agree with your posts but yes....spot on. Cameron feared a swing to UKIP in the election so promised a referendum to silence the rumblings within his party. | |||
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"Obviously Brexitiers are happy with simply "brexit means brexit", perhaps any more details than that would be too complicated for them to understand? . You can,t let it drop can you CLCC, you still think everyone that voted leave is thick,next it will be racist,bigot etc.We will leave,of that I,m sure ??"I didn't vote for Brexit, I'm guessing you did. Aren't you even slightly curious as to what it actually is? As to what you voted for? | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
no it means david cameron and osborne and rest of our goverment failed at their jobs by putting all their eggs in one basket (the remain camp) and not coming up with a plan if it went the other way.
but neither did the leave side, which although Farage thought they wouldn't win would have been part of an effective strategy..
both sides were lax..
Vote Leave, Leave.eu and grassroots out were not part of the government. It was the job of government to come up with contingency plans for both outcomes of the referendum, which they failed miserably to do.
Secondly if Theresa May and the government are too pig headed to use Nigel Farage's influence with Donald Trump on a trade deal what makes you think they would listen to Farage's plan for leaving the EU?
They, the leave side whatever they were called wanted it in fact some like Cash and Farage have for years been saying it should be but its ok that they can do so and not have a plan or an idea for what they see the future of the country to be if they were successful..
no that is wrong..
actually maybe no one on the leave side, the voter's that is had the foresight to ask them 'what is your plan'..
does explain how post the result there was one old boy nearly in tears saying 'ive got my England back'..
you may say pig headed other's may say showing a bit of sense in not having some blatant self publicist who had no plan for the question he wanted asking..
David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. "he should have yes, that point has been agreed several months ago.. so if they had any gumption or common dog fuck should the ones who asked for it and had been campaigning about it for decades.. you know just in case they won then they could have a cohesive view with which to hold the Government to account.. all there seems to be is initiate article 50 now, right now.. and yes we know you don't have a plan, nor do we by the way but initiate it now and it will all be ok.. on something as massive as this, yeah right lets err well what could go wrong.. | |||
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" David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. " The New World post Brexit version of logic. The people who wanted Brexit and who had been championing a UK out of Europe for decades had absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to map out what a post Brexit UK would look like. Not their job, not their responsibility. All they had to do was shout meaningless slogans and get the oiks and riff raff all worked up and hating Jonny Foreigner. The person who should absolutely have mapped out Britaions future outside of the EU is the person who didn't want it, had no interest in it and did not vote for it. Welcome to the new world. | |||
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"I agreed with the vote and result. The other option was to stay In the EU with people like junker telling us you can't do this or that sat in his untouchable ivory tower. It's about time the commission was put under audit so we can see what actually goes on. It's about time the EU commission was abolished and we had a free and prosperous Europe of Independent nation states. " Interesting thought. When did that last happen? Let's look: 1930s, that went well. 1900s, classic that one. 1870, franco-prussian fracas anyone? 1793, another good year. OK, managed it from 1815 through to 1870 so that's alright, let's do it again. | |||
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" Yesterday you were saying essentially that you didn't like decisions taken by career politicians, but that doesn't mean that you would like the decisions made by non-politicians either. The ability to influence decision made in London is easier. As a country we have the ability to elect a government to enact a certain set of tasks. An imperfect system yes, but one you have rightly championed on the high court ruling thing. Doing that as power is moved towards a centralised European system is more difficult. The Brexiters view is that a bad law written in London is somehow better than a good law written in Brussels, and I just can't agree with that." And it also presumes, based on gods alone know what, that we're actually good at making laws ourselves. Having lived through the 70s I don't agree. It seems to be based on some utopian view of British history that I, for one, don't share. | |||
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" David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. The New World post Brexit version of logic. The people who wanted Brexit and who had been championing a UK out of Europe for decades had absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to map out what a post Brexit UK would look like. Not their job, not their responsibility. All they had to do was shout meaningless slogans and get the oiks and riff raff all worked up and hating Jonny Foreigner. The person who should absolutely have mapped out Britaions future outside of the EU is the person who didn't want it, had no interest in it and did not vote for it. Welcome to the new world." Would ANYONE have listened to Nigel Farage if he had a plan, NO they would not. The only people who should have had a plan were the ones who gambled on a referendum and lost. Its the SAME government now with a different leader that ridiculed Donald Trump but don't want Nigel Farage to help build bridges so what makes you think they would have listened to his PLAN. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic
It was only an analogy, try not to take it too seriously. I think even you could grasp the point they were making.
obviously no clue with regards to sky diving, so why choose a point where they have no idea or clue what they are talking about, guess the same could go for many replies & comments on this thread
armchair MP's or wish they were
At least CLCC seems to be ignoring the sky diving experts.
"In typical HALO/HAHO insertions the troops jump from altitudes between 15,000 feet (4,600 m) and 35,000 feet (11,000 m)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_military_parachuting"Can't find the bit on your link that says "naked and without a parachute"...... | |||
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"Obviously Brexitiers are happy with simply "brexit means brexit", perhaps any more details than that would be too complicated for them to understand? "What a ridiulous patronising comment. | |||
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"Secondly if Theresa May and the government are too pig headed to use Nigel Farage's influence with Donald Trump on a trade deal what makes you think they would listen to Farage's plan for leaving the EU? "Why on earth would they use Farsge's (alleged) influence? What has any of this got to do with him? Let's ask around and see of anyone knows Trumps cleaner's aunt, maybe we can use their influence too. | |||
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"The majority of the country voted to Leave the EU. It's perfectly well illustrated in the pie chart. www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/5b8xd0/how_the_uk_voted_in_the_eu_referendum/?st=ivjuyhyi&sh=c712cf6a" You need to be careful, the majority of the electorate voted, not the country. | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
You do know the referendum is only advisory
Guess you missed that bit Bollocks"You may think it's bollocks but that's the truth of the matter & bollocks will do bollock all in changing that fact. | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic
It was only an analogy, try not to take it too seriously. I think even you could grasp the point they were making.
obviously no clue with regards to sky diving, so why choose a point where they have no idea or clue what they are talking about, guess the same could go for many replies & comments on this thread
armchair MP's or wish they were
At least CLCC seems to be ignoring the sky diving experts.
"In typical HALO/HAHO insertions the troops jump from altitudes between 15,000 feet (4,600 m) and 35,000 feet (11,000 m)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_military_parachuting
Can't find the bit on your link that says "naked and without a parachute"......"Or the bit about meeting the EU half way down either I suspect. That's because it was an analogy. People seem to take offense when it's suggested that Brexit voters aren't the sharpest tools in the box but it's hardly surprising when you don't understand simple linguistic and conceptual devices such as analogies. | |||
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"Obviously Brexitiers are happy with simply "brexit means brexit", perhaps any more details than that would be too complicated for them to understand? . You can,t let it drop can you CLCC, you still think everyone that voted leave is thick,next it will be racist,bigot etc.We will leave,of that I,m sure ??
I didn't vote for Brexit, I'm guessing you did. Aren't you even slightly curious as to what it actually is? As to what you voted for? ". I will leave that up to parliament  | |||
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" David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. The New World post Brexit version of logic. The people who wanted Brexit and who had been championing a UK out of Europe for decades had absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to map out what a post Brexit UK would look like. Not their job, not their responsibility. All they had to do was shout meaningless slogans and get the oiks and riff raff all worked up and hating Jonny Foreigner. The person who should absolutely have mapped out Britaions future outside of the EU is the person who didn't want it, had no interest in it and did not vote for it. Welcome to the new world. Would ANYONE have listened to Nigel Farage if he had a plan, NO they would not. The only people who should have had a plan were the ones who gambled on a referendum and lost. Its the SAME government now with a different leader that ridiculed Donald Trump but don't want Nigel Farage to help build bridges so what makes you think they would have listened to his PLAN. "I know people love to bash politicians on here, but what does it say about the VOTERS who voted on something without a plan of 1) what they wanted to achieve at the end, and 2) how they would achieve it? Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance | |||
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"Or the bit about meeting the EU half way down either I suspect. That's because it was an analogy. People seem to take offense when it's suggested that Brexit voters aren't the sharpest tools in the box but it's hardly surprising when you don't understand simple linguistic and conceptual devices such as analogies. "I find it interesting in the forums, many times people criticise the education system, teachers, exams, etc, etc. But, then don't seem to understand basic concepts that any kid who studies English, Maths and Science will have learnt (that's all of them by the way): Analogies Modelling Citing and evaluation of sources Basic human biology Use of various types of language Basic phsyics Etc Etc | |||
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"Obviously Brexitiers are happy with simply "brexit means brexit", perhaps any more details than that would be too complicated for them to understand? . You can,t let it drop can you CLCC, you still think everyone that voted leave is thick,next it will be racist,bigot etc.We will leave,of that I,m sure ??
I didn't vote for Brexit, I'm guessing you did. Aren't you even slightly curious as to what it actually is? As to what you voted for? . I will leave that up to parliament "Rather than the government? | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948
guess you missed the results:
United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016
Votes%
Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
What has that got to do with it? Just because the majority expressed that they would like to leave the EU doesn't automatically mean it will/can happen.
It's a bit like we all vote on whether or not to go on a road trip across country to soemwhere nice. The majority agreed we are going. But no-one can agree on whether we go by car, train, bus or walk. And no-one has a map on how to get to our destination. Half the people who voted to go were promised they would have a comfy journey and not get sore legs... so they voted to go as it sounded like a good plan. The other half were told they'd get some good exercise and some sightseeing in on the way. The driver quit... so now we have a new driver... but they don't have experience in driving buses, trains, and cars... so we need to try and hire experience drivers, conductors, engineers and navigators to ensure we get there.
But don't worry, we're still sticking hard to the notion that at the start the majority voted to go on this trip. Just the chances of us getting there or more than a small proportion of the group being happy by the time we get there is getting very slim. Oh and we'll have blown all our holiday money by the time we get there... and the price of ice creams has just gone up.
-Matt
If you thought that up yourself, give yourself a pat on the back very clever.
The realities of the world will have an impact on what happens and it is far more likely that the EU itself will have manifestly changed over the next two years than the UK leaving the form of EU that it marginally voted to leave.
Of course there will still be a hard core of self flegellationists who will demand that they be made poorer and have less friends because of their democratic right to not want to change their mind under any circumstances.
I'll be surprised if the EU even still exists in 2 years time. It could collapse before we get chance to Brexit. You also claimed inflation would go up, as did many of the so called experts, but figures released today show inflation dropped from the month September to October 2016. Yet again the so called experts have got it wrong.
I'm sure you have read the complete inflation report (as I have this morning) and if you have you will have noticed TWO clear inflation indicators that were announced, One being that factory output prices rose by 2.1% and the other that retailers are simply working on stock ordered and purchased Nine to Twelve months ago.
That's the way retail works, order books are compiled at least two seasons ahead of themselves, and in many sectors three or four seasons beforehand.
It's the prices that retailers and wholesalers are paying NOW that will impact upon inflation in months to come.
Imports of goods and raw materials HAVE risen considerably over the last Three months and WILL impact upon retail prices in 2017."However exports are booming and are attracting more tourists due the fall in exchange rates . Just swings and roundabouts . | |||
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"CLCC your constant referral to people who have differing opinions to yours is offensive. You like posting 'facts' but quickly throw your toys out of the pram when it doesnt have the desired effect. I'm sure you believe you are intellectually superior to anyone who doesn't see things your way. That attitude is very dangerous." Well said. | |||
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"We have no plan, we have no plan.... Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP Just think how much better it will be when we have a plan..... If you're not sure, you can always ask Google....." The Pound dropped again today against the Dollar, Factory gate prices up by 2.1%, inflation artificially dropped because of retail stocks purchased pre referendum.....I think you may be getting carried away, might be better to wait till April before getting over excited. | |||
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"We have no plan, we have no plan.... Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP Just think how much better it will be when we have a plan..... If you're not sure, you can always ask Google....." An excellent post . I like people who think positively . Things can only get better.  | |||
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" Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP " Employment going up prior to the referendum. Inflation going down isn't necessarily a good thing. The pound has rallied after dropping significantly, and most experts predict that it will drop more once Brexit actually comes into effect. The Euro falling is, if we are true Brexiteers, none of our concern. And it seems to have been caused by more than just Brexit, anyway. Any growth to the FTSE is superficial. We've had an influx of foreign investment caused by the drop in the pound, but that will stop once we actually leave. | |||
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"We as a nation were asked via the referendum if we wanted to stay in the EU or not nothing else not which or whos plan would be best. it was a STAY or LEAVE vote. "True, very true. But, don't you think it might be nice if there actually is a plan? Or, as a minimum, that the country should, in broad terms, have confidence that there might actually be one? | |||
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"I don't see article 50 being triggered in the timescale that may said as they will have to have a proper exit plan in place first. You don't go on a trip without first planning you're route so you ? You can't really plan for something before "setting off on a trip" if you have no idea where you are going in the first place though can you ? It's like walking off blind for miles with no idea where you're going "trying to plan an exit strategy" before finally the EU removes the blind fold "once A50's triggered" only to find you don't like where you've actually ended up. Or like voting to jump naked out of a plane at 30,000 feet knowing someone from the EU will meet you halfway down to discuss wether they will give you a parachute or not
That's basically the situation voting to leave has left the country in.
Who do you know that has jumped out a plane at 30,000ft you watch too many movies in fantasy land
HAHO and HALO jumps
and your point is!!!!
when do military jump naked at 30,000ft, when does anyone jump at 30,000ft
normal high altitude jumps are 18 - 20,000 and these are one off first jump of the day to encourage people to arrive early at the DZ and O2 is required
30,000ft bollocks, full of shit,
keep on using google but also try to be realistic"Ok you obviously don't understand the point of an analogy do you to start nit picking like this instead of writing a your own reply as to why you think we're not in a situation like the analogy. The finer details have no relevance though the moral of the analogy does. | |||
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"We as a nation were asked via the referendum if we wanted to stay in the EU or not nothing else not which or whos plan would be best. it was a STAY or LEAVE vote.
True, very true.
But, don't you think it might be nice if there actually is a plan? Or, as a minimum, that the country should, in broad terms, have confidence that there might actually be one?
"Yes it would be nice to know there is a plan but not a good idea for everyone to know what it is. Plans as big as this take time if you want them to work but everyone wants to know NOW what that plan is not that we can do anything about it either way. | |||
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" David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. The New World post Brexit version of logic. The people who wanted Brexit and who had been championing a UK out of Europe for decades had absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to map out what a post Brexit UK would look like. Not their job, not their responsibility. All they had to do was shout meaningless slogans and get the oiks and riff raff all worked up and hating Jonny Foreigner. The person who should absolutely have mapped out Britaions future outside of the EU is the person who didn't want it, had no interest in it and did not vote for it. Welcome to the new world." Companies such as JCB and Wetherspoons would hardly support Brexit if there was no plan. Countries will still need to buy our goods and vice versa . The issue of tariffs can be easily sorted so there is nothing to worry about . | |||
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"The majority of the country voted to Leave the EU. It's perfectly well illustrated in the pie chart. www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/5b8xd0/how_the_uk_voted_in_the_eu_referendum/?st=ivjuyhyi&sh=c712cf6a You need to be careful, the majority of the electorate voted, not the country." It's just worth reminding, in a nice simple visual way, that when the Brexiters say 'the majority of the country wanted.....' that isn't really true. | |||
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" Yes it would be nice to know there is a plan but not a good idea for everyone to know what it is. Plans as big as this take time if you want them to work but everyone wants to know NOW what that plan is not that we can do anything about it either way." The civil servants would, at this point, like a fucking hint what it is there massively overburdened and grossly understaffed department is supposed to be working towards. | |||
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"The majority of the country voted to Leave the EU. It's perfectly well illustrated in the pie chart. www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/5b8xd0/how_the_uk_voted_in_the_eu_referendum/?st=ivjuyhyi&sh=c712cf6a You need to be careful, the majority of the electorate voted, not the country. It's just worth reminding, in a nice simple visual way, that when the Brexiters say 'the majority of the country wanted.....' that isn't really true. " The majority of people that voted want to leave the EU what more does anyone need to know. | |||
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" Yes it would be nice to know there is a plan but not a good idea for everyone to know what it is. Plans as big as this take time if you want them to work but everyone wants to know NOW what that plan is not that we can do anything about it either way. The civil servants would, at this point, like a fucking hint what it is there massively overburdened and grossly understaffed department is supposed to be working towards. " I,d say that was a need to know only so if you don't need to know at this stage WHY would they tell you. | |||
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" David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. The New World post Brexit version of logic. The people who wanted Brexit and who had been championing a UK out of Europe for decades had absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to map out what a post Brexit UK would look like. Not their job, not their responsibility. All they had to do was shout meaningless slogans and get the oiks and riff raff all worked up and hating Jonny Foreigner. The person who should absolutely have mapped out Britaions future outside of the EU is the person who didn't want it, had no interest in it and did not vote for it. Welcome to the new world." thank you that someone actually said what i have been thinking the further down in the thread i got.... "so you want to leave?" yep!!!!! ...."and what does leave mean?" leave!!!.... "detail? leave!!!.... "care to elaberate on detail?" errrrr... leave!!! "so what does leave day plus 1 look like?" mmmmmmmmmm...... leave!!!! yeah..... helpful!!!! okay... can i ask the various leavers on this board an honest question... because it may help those who voted remain have a better understanding... "in your mind, what actually does leave day +1 look like?" | |||
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"You haven't read The Times report have you? It is about the civil servants first hand account of the Brexiteers fiasco. " No I hav,nt but with so many lies in the papers how do we know anything they print is true. | |||
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"We have no plan, we have no plan.... Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP Just think how much better it will be when we have a plan..... If you're not sure, you can always ask Google..... An excellent post . I like people who think positively . Things can only get better. "Ah yes, we are relying on the placebo effect now are we? Actually that's not a bad thing if you brexit fuckers stick to homeopathy rather than bothering the NHS with its scientific approach to cancer treatment. | |||
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" David Cameron was the newly elected PM he called for the referendum no one else yes we wanted a referendum but HE was the one who SHOULD have had a plan if the vote went leave no one else. In stead like a coward he resigned as PM and then resigns as an MP and leaves someone else to clean his shit up. The New World post Brexit version of logic. The people who wanted Brexit and who had been championing a UK out of Europe for decades had absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to map out what a post Brexit UK would look like. Not their job, not their responsibility. All they had to do was shout meaningless slogans and get the oiks and riff raff all worked up and hating Jonny Foreigner. The person who should absolutely have mapped out Britaions future outside of the EU is the person who didn't want it, had no interest in it and did not vote for it. Welcome to the new world. thank you that someone actually said what i have been thinking the further down in the thread i got.... "so you want to leave?" yep!!!!! ...."and what does leave mean?" leave!!!.... "detail? leave!!!.... "care to elaberate on detail?" errrrr... leave!!! "so what does leave day plus 1 look like?" mmmmmmmmmm...... leave!!!! yeah..... helpful!!!! okay... can i ask the various leavers on this board an honest question... because it may help those who voted remain have a better understanding... "in your mind, what actually does leave day +1 look like?" " The same as any other day still in the EU for at least another two years and 4 months approx. | |||
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"We have no plan, we have no plan.... Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP Just think how much better it will be when we have a plan..... If you're not sure, you can always ask Google..... An excellent post . I like people who think positively . Things can only get better.
Ah yes, we are relying on the placebo effect now are we?
Actually that's not a bad thing if you brexit fuckers stick to homeopathy rather than bothering the NHS with its scientific approach to cancer treatment. "Us brexit fuckers as you call us don't care about you calling us names it just shows how immature you are. | |||
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"We have no plan, we have no plan.... Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP Just think how much better it will be when we have a plan..... If you're not sure, you can always ask Google..... An excellent post . I like people who think positively . Things can only get better.
Ah yes, we are relying on the placebo effect now are we?
Actually that's not a bad thing if you brexit fuckers stick to homeopathy rather than bothering the NHS with its scientific approach to cancer treatment. "A charming use of languague . Use of swear words shows a total lack of self control. | |||
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"We have no plan, we have no plan.... Employment UP Inflation DOWN Pound RISING Euro FALLING Stocks UP Just think how much better it will be when we have a plan..... If you're not sure, you can always ask Google..... An excellent post . I like people who think positively . Things can only get better.
Ah yes, we are relying on the placebo effect now are we?
Actually that's not a bad thing if you brexit fuckers stick to homeopathy rather than bothering the NHS with its scientific approach to cancer treatment. A charming use of languague . Use of swear words shows a total lack of self control. "Also shows that they are losing not only their self control, but the argument as well. | |||
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"CLCC your constant referral to people who have differing opinions to yours is offensive. You like posting 'facts' but quickly throw your toys out of the pram when it doesnt have the desired effect. I'm sure you believe you are intellectually superior to anyone who doesn't see things your way. That attitude is very dangerous." You didn't know what you were voting for but you voted for it anyway. CLCC might be thick as fuck for all I know but he/she is fucking Einstein next to you geniuses. | |||
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"CLCC your constant referral to people who have differing opinions to yours is offensive. You like posting 'facts' but quickly throw your toys out of the pram when it doesnt have the desired effect. I'm sure you believe you are intellectually superior to anyone who doesn't see things your way. That attitude is very dangerous. You didn't know what you were voting for but you voted for it anyway. CLCC might be thick as fuck for all I know but he/she is fucking Einstein next to you geniuses. " Those who voted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for . We all had plenty of time to make a decision and knew that it was a once in a lifetime choice . We all had to listen to the merchants of doom but still voted to leave . Could it be any simplier . We vote , the votes are counted and the result declared. | |||
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" Those who voted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for . " So tell us what you voted for then! Economic growth, or downturn? High immigration to meet business needs, or low immigration with strains on recruitment? Limits on foreign students that help to subsidize British students, or rising tuition fees? Rising food prices? Or will food be cheaper, even with the tariffs? Will we be members of the single market or not? Will we still have the European arrest warrant, or will paedophiles be able to simple jump on a ferry or plane to freedom? Will the UK border be in Dover or Calais? Will items like Melton Mowbray pork pies, traditional Cumberland sausage and Cornish clotted cream still be protected, or will anyone in the EU be able to make them? Will British fishermen be the only ones allowed to fish in UK waters, or do other countries actually have historic access rights? Will UK science and research suffer as a result not only of the cuts to funding (I know the UK gov have guaranteed funding for a whopping 12m), but also the free movement of scientists and researchers around the EU? The referendum has already cost us £70bn in monetary policy measures which we weren't told about, how many more billions is it going to cost us? Will immigration from non-EU countries rise? For the EU citizens that are going to be allowed to stay here, what if they leave for a while, are they then allowed to come back? What if they marry a non-UK citizens in the future? Will that person be allowed to live and work in the UK? What if they have children, what will their status be? Will it just apply to people who were here on 23rd June, or is there some date in the future that any European wanting to living and work here will have to be here? If so that might be a busy day at the airport. Do we have space at our ports, airports, ferry terminals on the Eire/NI border for the customs checks that we will have to do if we leave the customs union? How much has the government promised to pay companies like Nissan to stay in the UK with our tax payer money? And how many other blank cheques will it have to keep on writing to other companies? How will the city of London react if they lose their passporting writes? What will be the impact if the new countries we will be relying upon for free trade such as India refuse to allow free trade on services seeing as the UK is a service economy? | |||
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"You haven't read The Times report have you? It is about the civil servants first hand account of the Brexiteers fiasco. " You may have read it but since it was printed deloittes have admitted it was produced by one of their employees who had no access to the cabinet,in other words it was made up bull poo. So perhaps us thick as dog shit fuckers arent as easily taken in by the remoaners | |||
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" Those who voted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for . So tell us what you voted for then! Economic growth, or downturn? High immigration to meet business needs, or low immigration with strains on recruitment? Limits on foreign students that help to subsidize British students, or rising tuition fees? Rising food prices? Or will food be cheaper, even with the tariffs? Will we be members of the single market or not? Will we still have the European arrest warrant, or will paedophiles be able to simple jump on a ferry or plane to freedom? Will the UK border be in Dover or Calais? Will items like Melton Mowbray pork pies, traditional Cumberland sausage and Cornish clotted cream still be protected, or will anyone in the EU be able to make them? Will British fishermen be the only ones allowed to fish in UK waters, or do other countries actually have historic access rights? Will UK science and research suffer as a result not only of the cuts to funding (I know the UK gov have guaranteed funding for a whopping 12m), but also the free movement of scientists and researchers around the EU? The referendum has already cost us £70bn in monetary policy measures which we weren't told about, how many more billions is it going to cost us? Will immigration from non-EU countries rise? For the EU citizens that are going to be allowed to stay here, what if they leave for a while, are they then allowed to come back? What if they marry a non-UK citizens in the future? Will that person be allowed to live and work in the UK? What if they have children, what will their status be? Will it just apply to people who were here on 23rd June, or is there some date in the future that any European wanting to living and work here will have to be here? If so that might be a busy day at the airport. Do we have space at our ports, airports, ferry terminals on the Eire/NI border for the customs checks that we will have to do if we leave the customs union? How much has the government promised to pay companies like Nissan to stay in the UK with our tax payer money? And how many other blank cheques will it have to keep on writing to other companies? How will the city of London react if they lose their passporting writes? What will be the impact if the new countries we will be relying upon for free trade such as India refuse to allow free trade on services seeing as the UK is a service economy?" Have you asked all those experts who predicted the crash what they think will happen,oh of course you still cant find any can you, it must really hard living in your dark little world | |||
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" Those who voted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for . So tell us what you voted for then! Economic growth, or downturn? High immigration to meet business needs, or low immigration with strains on recruitment? Limits on foreign students that help to subsidize British students, or rising tuition fees? Rising food prices? Or will food be cheaper, even with the tariffs? Will we be members of the single market or not? Will we still have the European arrest warrant, or will paedophiles be able to simple jump on a ferry or plane to freedom? Will the UK border be in Dover or Calais? Will items like Melton Mowbray pork pies, traditional Cumberland sausage and Cornish clotted cream still be protected, or will anyone in the EU be able to make them? Will British fishermen be the only ones allowed to fish in UK waters, or do other countries actually have historic access rights? Will UK science and research suffer as a result not only of the cuts to funding (I know the UK gov have guaranteed funding for a whopping 12m), but also the free movement of scientists and researchers around the EU? The referendum has already cost us £70bn in monetary policy measures which we weren't told about, how many more billions is it going to cost us? Will immigration from non-EU countries rise? For the EU citizens that are going to be allowed to stay here, what if they leave for a while, are they then allowed to come back? What if they marry a non-UK citizens in the future? Will that person be allowed to live and work in the UK? What if they have children, what will their status be? Will it just apply to people who were here on 23rd June, or is there some date in the future that any European wanting to living and work here will have to be here? If so that might be a busy day at the airport. Do we have space at our ports, airports, ferry terminals on the Eire/NI border for the customs checks that we will have to do if we leave the customs union? How much has the government promised to pay companies like Nissan to stay in the UK with our tax payer money? And how many other blank cheques will it have to keep on writing to other companies? How will the city of London react if they lose their passporting writes? What will be the impact if the new countries we will be relying upon for free trade such as India refuse to allow free trade on services seeing as the UK is a service economy? Have you asked all those experts who predicted the crash what they think will happen,oh of course you still cant find any can you, it must really hard living in your dark little world " So you didn't answer 1 single question. Yet another Brexitier without a plan, without a clue, ignoring the experts and BeLeaving it's all going to be fine! | |||
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"CLCC your constant referral to people who have differing opinions to yours is offensive. You like posting 'facts' but quickly throw your toys out of the pram when it doesnt have the desired effect. I'm sure you believe you are intellectually superior to anyone who doesn't see things your way. That attitude is very dangerous. You didn't know what you were voting for but you voted for it anyway. CLCC might be thick as fuck for all I know but he/she is fucking Einstein next to you geniuses. " Fille Derobee, I didn't say or imply CLCC was thick. Please re-read what I said. My point was about not lashing out at people, and claiming intellectual superiority. But you've just done the same thing. I'm trying to get people to debate properly without resorting to insulting others. That's just common sense, and forum rules. | |||
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"We as a nation were asked via the referendum if we wanted to stay in the EU or not nothing else not which or whos plan would be best. it was a STAY or LEAVE vote. "Another analogy: It's like the nation was asked "Would you like cake?" A bunch of people said "yes please!" and were then handed Marmite flavoured cake. Half the people are happy with that as they like marmite. Half are pissed off, they hate marmite. Then there are a bunch of people who said "no, we don't want cake, unless you tell is what cake it is first". But we are told "Cake is cake. The people want it. Eat it". -Matt | |||
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" Those who voted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for . So tell us what you voted for then! Economic growth, or downturn? High immigration to meet business needs, or low immigration with strains on recruitment? Limits on foreign students that help to subsidize British students, or rising tuition fees? Rising food prices? Or will food be cheaper, even with the tariffs? Will we be members of the single market or not? Will we still have the European arrest warrant, or will paedophiles be able to simple jump on a ferry or plane to freedom? Will the UK border be in Dover or Calais? Will items like Melton Mowbray pork pies, traditional Cumberland sausage and Cornish clotted cream still be protected, or will anyone in the EU be able to make them? Will British fishermen be the only ones allowed to fish in UK waters, or do other countries actually have historic access rights? Will UK science and research suffer as a result not only of the cuts to funding (I know the UK gov have guaranteed funding for a whopping 12m), but also the free movement of scientists and researchers around the EU? The referendum has already cost us £70bn in monetary policy measures which we weren't told about, how many more billions is it going to cost us? Will immigration from non-EU countries rise? For the EU citizens that are going to be allowed to stay here, what if they leave for a while, are they then allowed to come back? What if they marry a non-UK citizens in the future? Will that person be allowed to live and work in the UK? What if they have children, what will their status be? Will it just apply to people who were here on 23rd June, or is there some date in the future that any European wanting to living and work here will have to be here? If so that might be a busy day at the airport. Do we have space at our ports, airports, ferry terminals on the Eire/NI border for the customs checks that we will have to do if we leave the customs union? How much has the government promised to pay companies like Nissan to stay in the UK with our tax payer money? And how many other blank cheques will it have to keep on writing to other companies? How will the city of London react if they lose their passporting writes? What will be the impact if the new countries we will be relying upon for free trade such as India refuse to allow free trade on services seeing as the UK is a service economy?"
Well put.
This is the crux of the issue. It is NOT a simple issue to resolve. There is no one single RIGHT answer. There are going to have to be a lot of compromises in all sorts of areas. The problem is that most of the nation (on both sides of the debate) really had no idea how complex this all was. I voted to remain, but I had no idea that the customs union was a distinct thing from the EU. As just one example.
If the people voting had not been hoodwinked by politicians and the media into thinking this was such a simple issue then there might have been a more reasonable outcome.
Boiling it down to a very very simple and contrived example, but trying to illustrate a point. If you asked the same people the following two questions:
1) Do you want to leave the EU?
2) Do you want to leave the EU, but you are going to have to apply for a visa for you annual holiday to Span and it will cost you 20% more?
I think you will get a different numbers of yes' and no's for question 1 as question 2. And that is just a very simple example with numbers pulled our my arse to illustrate a point on human reasoning, and the flaws in the referendum process, not stay/leave.
And that is just purely asking something about a direct hit to someones cash in their pocket. How about a question like:
3) Do you want to leave the EU, but the next time the police cover up screw ups at the next Hillsborough and the government isn't interested, you have no higher power to appeal to?
-Matt | |||
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"Yes, lots of analogies and pros and cons. Some on here will argue til blue in the face there is only one right answer. I think they are wrong to do that. Is every aspect of the EU crap? No , lots is good. Is it all going to be shit when we leave? No - not if we work at it properly? Is it all going to be perfect and every aspect better? No - probably not. There are different sides to all the coins. Blank cheque to Nissan. Probably not blank. Will they get a cheque? Maybe, if tarrifs come into effect. Where would that money come from? Our equivalent import tarifs. Will we still need immigration and want. Most likely plenty. etc etc etc etc My take on it all is this. I don't know all the answers or every detail of how it will pan out. But my analogy is this. I spent years employed in a 'good' job, but was unhappy with many aspects of it and disagreed with the direction I was being pushed. I left and set up my own business. It has been hard but overall I'm happier. I made my choice and tried to make it work and it did and is. Was staying or leaving clear cut? No. Was I stupid or arrogant to leave? No. Would I have been stupid to stay? No. It's happening and we are going to need a lot of good people with positive attitudes and clear and open minds to make it work for everybody in the country." Very well put, and a good analogy. I just wish more people would put as much common sense into the thoughts as it seems you do. But to take your analogy further... a large proportion of the country were told: "You can leave your company and set up your own business, and you won't have to have a big chunk of your salary taken off at source to go towards your pension, healthcare, and company car.... you get all that money to do with what you want! And those colleauges you don't like the look and sound of... you won't have to see them again" But those people were not told, that once they leave they are going to have to set up their own healthcare, pension, car etc... and in fact it might not be any cheaper as they don't have the group buying power. Or maybe they can ferret out some better deals. Good on them... but still they haven't suddenly got a fat wodge of cash appear in their pocket. And those colleauges that they didn't like? Well some of them they will still have to deal with even striking out on their own... because they actually do a valuable job and are necessary. And then some people even after all this are surprised they are not allowed into the staff cafeteria for subsidised lunch or able to use the company gym. We'll get through it. I personally left a bigger company and went out on my own two years ago, so I know where you are coming from. And I'm doing better off than I was before. My concern is that May has been in power now for 4 months and we still don't have a plan as to what we are doing. -Matt | |||
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" Very well put, and a good analogy. I just wish more people would put as much common sense into the thoughts as it seems you do. But to take your analogy further... a large proportion of the country were told: "You can leave your company and set up your own business, and you won't have to have a big chunk of your salary taken off at source to go towards your pension, healthcare, and company car.... you get all that money to do with what you want! And those colleauges you don't like the look and sound of... you won't have to see them again" But those people were not told, that once they leave they are going to have to set up their own healthcare, pension, car etc... and in fact it might not be any cheaper as they don't have the group buying power. Or maybe they can ferret out some better deals. Good on them... but still they haven't suddenly got a fat wodge of cash appear in their pocket. And those colleauges that they didn't like? Well some of them they will still have to deal with even striking out on their own... because they actually do a valuable job and are necessary. And then some people even after all this are surprised they are not allowed into the staff cafeteria for subsidised lunch or able to use the company gym. We'll get through it. I personally left a bigger company and went out on my own two years ago, so I know where you are coming from. And I'm doing better off than I was before. My concern is that May has been in power now for 4 months and we still don't have a plan as to what we are doing. -Matt" Thanks. Your analogy is also true. They were told half-truths and / lies by both sides of the campaign. They had the glory side from Leave and the project fear from Remain. Both campaigns were a shining example of the poor state of honesty in British politics that we seem to accept. I kind of think most people voted for what they would have voted for prior to the campaign. There is so little trust in politicians, papers, BBC that a lot of people went with what they thought for years. Was the balance tipped either way - who knows. Is there a plan? I don't know and don't have sufficient faith to know how well formulated it is if there is one. But also I wouldn't be debating that plan in Parliament. I would only say, we want complete free trade. We want to set up our own agreements with any other country we want to. We don't accept over-rulings by the European court and UK law is the final word. Then begins a negotiation. I'd suggest they get somebody with the sufficient confidence, experience and charisma to do the job right. | |||
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"Yes, lots of analogies and pros and cons. Some on here will argue til blue in the face there is only one right answer. I think they are wrong to do that. Is every aspect of the EU crap? No , lots is good. Is it all going to be shit when we leave? No - not if we work at it properly? Is it all going to be perfect and every aspect better? No - probably not. There are different sides to all the coins. Blank cheque to Nissan. Probably not blank. Will they get a cheque? Maybe, if tarrifs come into effect. Where would that money come from? Our equivalent import tarifs. Will we still need immigration and want. Most likely plenty. etc etc etc etc My take on it all is this. I don't know all the answers or every detail of how it will pan out. But my analogy is this. I spent years employed in a 'good' job, but was unhappy with many aspects of it and disagreed with the direction I was being pushed. I left and set up my own business. It has been hard but overall I'm happier. I made my choice and tried to make it work and it did and is. Was staying or leaving clear cut? No. Was I stupid or arrogant to leave? No. Would I have been stupid to stay? No. It's happening and we are going to need a lot of good people with positive attitudes and clear and open minds to make it work for everybody in the country." An interesting analogy, but its a story based upon you making a personal decision about what's best for you and taking personal responsibility. In the case of Brexit, closer analogy would be that you wanted to leave your job, and so you forced 65million other people to leave their jobs too. | |||
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" An interesting analogy, but its a story based upon you making a personal decision about what's best for you and taking personal responsibility. In the case of Brexit, closer analogy would be that you wanted to leave your job, and so you forced 65million other people to leave their jobs too. " Yes, the analogy is imperfect , it's just based on a life experience about making an important choice with pros and cons. Pity you didn't take anything else on board earlier in the posts. | |||
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" But also I wouldn't be debating that plan in Parliament. I would only say, we want complete free trade. We want to set up our own agreements with any other country we want to. We don't accept over-rulings by the European court and UK law is the final word. Then begins a negotiation. I'd suggest they get somebody with the sufficient confidence, experience and charisma to do the job right." OK, well that is a great starter to 10. If that was the position we took (and I fear that that is just *one* interpretation of 'Brexit means Brexit') then we need the government to come up with a plan for achieving that and then parliament to cross-examine it. E.g. What happens if, say, the govt says "We can get free trade and will be out of the customs union, so will have to build X amount of extra port/dock/customs processing facilities, which means we have to knock down this area of housing". I'd expect the MP for that area of housing to put forward a case to ensure that their constituents are dealt with fairly if they are being relocated etc. How long and bitter has the debate been about adding an extra runway to Heathrow?! Do we really expect that as a nation we could satisfactorily negotiate something like the potentially needed expansion of customs facilities? And no... I've no idea if we would need extra customs processing facilities, or what that looks like. Is it one small building and a dozen extra people? Or is it doubling the footprint of all our ports and doubling the workforce? Somewhere in between I'd wager. Now multiply those negotiations by several hundred for every other aspect and industry (fishing? car manufacturers? finance? etc etc etc). I just really, really, really, don't see how it is going to happen without an enourmous cost in time and money... and in my mind vastly outweighing any benefit of leaving. -Matt | |||
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"We as a nation were asked via the referendum if we wanted to stay in the EU or not nothing else not which or whos plan would be best. it was a STAY or LEAVE vote.
Another analogy:
It's like the nation was asked "Would you like cake?" A bunch of people said "yes please!" and were then handed Marmite flavoured cake. Half the people are happy with that as they like marmite. Half are pissed off, they hate marmite.
Then there are a bunch of people who said "no, we don't want cake, unless you tell is what cake it is first". But we are told "Cake is cake. The people want it. Eat it".
-Matt"Tell that to David Cameron he called the referendum and he SAID stay or leave not me. NO one knows what Brexit will be like how could they it has,nt happened YET but we DO know what its like in the EU and a lot of people don't like it any more. | |||
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" I just really, really, really, don't see how it is going to happen without an enourmous cost in time and money... and in my mind vastly outweighing any benefit of leaving. -Matt" True. I would prefer free trade to be achieved in the negotiation, and not have the customs sites that you describe. Imports from the EU were about £40bn so the customs sites would give rise to significant hmrc tariff / vat income that would certainly cover the costs and inconvenience. But, I would rather that not need to be the case and free trade continue. You're right that is just one (significant) piece of the jigsaw. | |||
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" But also I wouldn't be debating that plan in Parliament. I would only say, we want complete free trade. We want to set up our own agreements with any other country we want to. We don't accept over-rulings by the European court and UK law is the final word. Then begins a negotiation. I'd suggest they get somebody with the sufficient confidence, experience and charisma to do the job right. OK, well that is a great starter to 10. If that was the position we took (and I fear that that is just *one* interpretation of 'Brexit means Brexit') then we need the government to come up with a plan for achieving that and then parliament to cross-examine it. E.g. What happens if, say, the govt says "We can get free trade and will be out of the customs union, so will have to build X amount of extra port/dock/customs processing facilities, which means we have to knock down this area of housing". I'd expect the MP for that area of housing to put forward a case to ensure that their constituents are dealt with fairly if they are being relocated etc. How long and bitter has the debate been about adding an extra runway to Heathrow?! Do we really expect that as a nation we could satisfactorily negotiate something like the potentially needed expansion of customs facilities? And no... I've no idea if we would need extra customs processing facilities, or what that looks like. Is it one small building and a dozen extra people? Or is it doubling the footprint of all our ports and doubling the workforce? Somewhere in between I'd wager. Now multiply those negotiations by several hundred for every other aspect and industry (fishing? car manufacturers? finance? etc etc etc). I just really, really, really, don't see how it is going to happen without an enourmous cost in time and money... and in my mind vastly outweighing any benefit of leaving. -Matt" This guy has a point. It took 40 years to get this creeping ivy to grip round every aspect of our lives. I suspect it might take 40 years to cut it back to where it was. OK OK.... I exaggerate. Maybe 20 or so. | |||
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" This guy has a point. It took 40 years to get this creeping ivy to grip round every aspect of our lives. I suspect it might take 40 years to cut it back to where it was. OK OK.... I exaggerate. Maybe 20 or so." Do you mean leave the creeping ivy be, or begin cutting, but it will be a long hard job? | |||
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" But also I wouldn't be debating that plan in Parliament. I would only say, we want complete free trade. We want to set up our own agreements with any other country we want to. We don't accept over-rulings by the European court and UK law is the final word. Then begins a negotiation. I'd suggest they get somebody with the sufficient confidence, experience and charisma to do the job right. OK, well that is a great starter to 10. If that was the position we took (and I fear that that is just *one* interpretation of 'Brexit means Brexit') then we need the government to come up with a plan for achieving that and then parliament to cross-examine it. E.g. What happens if, say, the govt says "We can get free trade and will be out of the customs union, so will have to build X amount of extra port/dock/customs processing facilities, which means we have to knock down this area of housing". I'd expect the MP for that area of housing to put forward a case to ensure that their constituents are dealt with fairly if they are being relocated etc. How long and bitter has the debate been about adding an extra runway to Heathrow?! Do we really expect that as a nation we could satisfactorily negotiate something like the potentially needed expansion of customs facilities? And no... I've no idea if we would need extra customs processing facilities, or what that looks like. Is it one small building and a dozen extra people? Or is it doubling the footprint of all our ports and doubling the workforce? Somewhere in between I'd wager. Now multiply those negotiations by several hundred for every other aspect and industry (fishing? car manufacturers? finance? etc etc etc). I just really, really, really, don't see how it is going to happen without an enourmous cost in time and money... and in my mind vastly outweighing any benefit of leaving. -Matt This guy has a point. It took 40 years to get this creeping ivy to grip round every aspect of our lives. I suspect it might take 40 years to cut it back to where it was. OK OK.... I exaggerate. Maybe 20 or so." Well one of the supreme court judges has said that the government might have to do that work before they can trigger article 50. | |||
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The saying gravy train slings to mind | |||
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"By the time the politicians and negotiators have lived it up on business lunches free 5 star accommodation I don't see it happening in my lifetime .
The saying gravy train slings to mind "This is why people who are desperate for the exit not to happen under any circumstances, are trying so hard to stop Article 50 being invoked, because there is a 2 year window after that which we will leave. If the job isn't done right in that time we will have a hard Brexit like it or not. I would prefer people to do the job right and get a negotiation concluded that is best for as many people as possible. | |||
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" Those who voted to leave knew exactly what they were voting for . So tell us what you voted for then! Economic growth, or downturn? High immigration to meet business needs, or low immigration with strains on recruitment? Limits on foreign students that help to subsidize British students, or rising tuition fees? Rising food prices? Or will food be cheaper, even with the tariffs? Will we be members of the single market or not? Will we still have the European arrest warrant, or will paedophiles be able to simple jump on a ferry or plane to freedom? Will the UK border be in Dover or Calais? Will items like Melton Mowbray pork pies, traditional Cumberland sausage and Cornish clotted cream still be protected, or will anyone in the EU be able to make them? Will British fishermen be the only ones allowed to fish in UK waters, or do other countries actually have historic access rights? Will UK science and research suffer as a result not only of the cuts to funding (I know the UK gov have guaranteed funding for a whopping 12m), but also the free movement of scientists and researchers around the EU? The referendum has already cost us £70bn in monetary policy measures which we weren't told about, how many more billions is it going to cost us? Will immigration from non-EU countries rise? For the EU citizens that are going to be allowed to stay here, what if they leave for a while, are they then allowed to come back? What if they marry a non-UK citizens in the future? Will that person be allowed to live and work in the UK? What if they have children, what will their status be? Will it just apply to people who were here on 23rd June, or is there some date in the future that any European wanting to living and work here will have to be here? If so that might be a busy day at the airport. Do we have space at our ports, airports, ferry terminals on the Eire/NI border for the customs checks that we will have to do if we leave the customs union? How much has the government promised to pay companies like Nissan to stay in the UK with our tax payer money? And how many other blank cheques will it have to keep on writing to other companies? How will the city of London react if they lose their passporting writes? What will be the impact if the new countries we will be relying upon for free trade such as India refuse to allow free trade on services seeing as the UK is a service economy?" I voted to leave the EU and have a bright economic future . If a successfull company such as JCB can manage outside the EU that is good enough for me. Countries still need our goods and vice versa . We just need the pm to negotiate a good deal and we are home and dry . There is no need to worry about tariffs etc as they all cancel each other out . | |||
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" If the job isn't done right in that time we will have a hard Brexit like it or not. I would prefer people to do the job right and get a negotiation concluded that is best for as many people as possible." Right, but I think it is even worse than that. What exactly happens when we reach the end of the two years? Suddenly we are no longer legally a part of the EU, right? So (for example) what right do I, as a UK, citizen have to travel to, say, Berlin to work? What happens if I decide to post a package from the UK to France? As far as I see those actions suddenly become undefined. I legally CAN'T go to Berlin to work until the UK has negotiated a position with the EU on that. Do I need a visa? Do I need a stamp in my passport? What if I want to travel to a country that I'm legally allowed to travel to as an EU member citizen, but then can't legally enter as a non-EU citizen until they negotate the rules? People have mentioned things like fishing rights as an example... so 2 years and 1 day after article 50 is triggered, are are out of the EU and if something has not been negotiated in time... what then? Are our vessels fishing illegally? Do other EU vessels move in on areas they used to fish in? As I said, I just can't see how we can negotiate all these things in a 2 year timeframe. -Matt | |||
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" We just need the pm to negotiate a good deal and we are home and dry . " Hahahahahahahah! Oh, that is the funniest thing I've heard today. Well done
-Matt | |||
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"You haven't read The Times report have you? It is about the civil servants first hand account of the Brexiteers fiasco. You may have read it but since it was printed deloittes have admitted it was produced by one of their employees who had no access to the cabinet,in other words it was made up bull poo. So perhaps us thick as dog shit fuckers arent as easily taken in by the remoaners " Maybe. I notice that the PM's office said that the memo was unsolicited from the PM's office. The said 'The AUTHOR had not “been in Number 10 or engaged with officials in Number 10 since the prime minister took office” 'Deloitte issued an apology. “This was a note intended primarily for internal audiences. It was not commissioned by the Cabinet Office, nor any other government department, and represents a view of the task facing Whitehall. This work was conducted without access to No. 10 or input from any other government departments,” it said.' Take a good careful read of those two statements. Have you ever see All The Presidents Men? As Jason Robards would say, they are non denial denials. All the government are saying is 'it's not come from us' and the author and deloittes haven't talked to any government ministers or civil servants in an official capacity. But that isn't what the article and memo are about. The report, which by the way the Times were confident enough of it being a reasonable representation of the situation to make its front page headline story, is reflecting what the civil servants and government insiders are seeing. You won't get civil servants going on record. They don't have a spokesman. The Times will have multiple sources backing the general tone of this article up. It's virtually common knowledge in Westminster circles. Robards would be saying 'We stand by this story'. When the government actually deny the substance of the reported shambles then we will know they do finally have an agreed plan. Here is the strongest denial we've had. From the FT 'Chris Grayling, transport secretary, told the BBC Today programme: “It’s certainly not a government report. It’s certainly not something that has been tabled to our committee. I haven’t seen these great divisions I read about in the papers. It’s a complex process albeit with some simple objectives.” So he can use 'certainly' to deny it's come from the government, but when it comes to the divisions he says he hasn't seen them, not that they aren't there. The last bit is the best though. The report says no actual agreement for a leaving strategy. Grayling says its a complex process, which I'm sure we all now realise it is, (even the brexiters who told us it would be easy during the campaign), but that it has SIMPLE OBJECTIVES. Well Mr Grayling, can you tell us what these are please? That is all we want to know. You can keep the other things a secret, but are we in the Single Market or not, are we controlling our borders or not? | |||
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" So you didn't answer 1 single question. Yet another Brexitier without a plan, without a clue, ignoring the experts and BeLeaving it's all going to be fine! " Ah your favorite word experts. Still waiting for you to answer a question that has been asked of you for weeks but you never have, you either run off for a few days or try and deflect it by asking another question,you really should become a politician,apart from the pound dropping which is a good thing as long as it doesnt go too far nothing that the remain camp said would happen has, there has been far more good news on the economy than bad | |||
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" So you didn't answer 1 single question. Yet another Brexitier without a plan, without a clue, ignoring the experts and BeLeaving it's all going to be fine! Ah your favorite word experts. Still waiting for you to answer a question that has been asked of you for weeks but you never have, you either run off for a few days or try and deflect it by asking another question,you really should become a politician,apart from the pound dropping which is a good thing as long as it doesnt go too far nothing that the remain camp said would happen has, there has been far more good news on the economy than bad " This is true , CLCC you started this thread based on that BBC story, which by the afternoon they had shoved to the back of the politics page. Are we trying to have an argument in the style of politicians who twist and turn, just to get their way? Or between us do we want to have a discussion about what to do and what might be right and wrong. That requires people to sometimes admit they made a mistake about something or other people have a valid point. There are several on here , with opposite viewpoints, who won't do that under any circumstances. | |||
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"My opinion here is that Theresa May and her team do not really know what to do and it is becoming more obvious and more embarrassing with each passing day. Further, widely reported (though unverified) comments from a Supreme Court Judge made recently cast more doubt on the Govt not only winning their legal appeal but even being able to have a vote on A50 with first repealing the European Communities Act. The running commentary line is a joke. This is not a game of poker and the UK will not be negotiating over anything highly secretive. We all know the score and 27 other nations need to agree within a two year time frame on any uk Brexit deal. The best thing PM May can do is to accept the High Court ruling and engage a cross party, all nation Brexit team and together work out a plan for Brexit that is best for the entire United Kingdom. Prime Minister May looks flustered, angry and a little out of her depth. It is far better that she gets a winning team around her that is representative of the whole country before she loses a vote of no confidence and if she carries on like this, that will happen sooner or later. " What evidence have you that the government have no idea what to do ? Just saying well they arent telling us isnt evidence | |||
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" So you didn't answer 1 single question. Yet another Brexitier without a plan, without a clue, ignoring the experts and BeLeaving it's all going to be fine! Ah your favorite word experts. Still waiting for you to answer a question that has been asked of you for weeks but you never have, you either run off for a few days or try and deflect it by asking another question,you really should become a politician,apart from the pound dropping which is a good thing as long as it doesnt go too far nothing that the remain camp said would happen has, there has been far more good news on the economy than bad This is true , CLCC you started this thread based on that BBC story, which by the afternoon they had shoved to the back of the politics page. Are we trying to have an argument in the style of politicians who twist and turn, just to get their way? Or between us do we want to have a discussion about what to do and what might be right and wrong. That requires people to sometimes admit they made a mistake about something or other people have a valid point. There are several on here , with opposite viewpoints, who won't do that under any circumstances." I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? " I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid." If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? | |||
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" If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? " OK, I might have been asking too much for you to concede any tiny thing. My faith hasn't been restored unfortunately. No, I don't think the cabinet has signed off a plan. | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid." You're mistaking them for someone who would admit to any flaws in anything they, or their 'experts', say. They can't even admit that the remain side told any lies in the referendum campaign, just that some of the things that were said were either not factually correct or technically incorrect! When flaws are pointed out, they either don't respond, or say "hey, I was only saying something that had been reported", yet are the first ones to say "check your facts and do your research first". | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. You're mistaking them for someone who would admit to any flaws in anything they, or their 'experts', say. They can't even admit that the remain side told any lies in the referendum campaign, just that some of the things that were said were either not factually correct or technically incorrect! When flaws are pointed out, they either don't respond, or say "hey, I was only saying something that had been reported", yet are the first ones to say "check your facts and do your research first". " Do what I do ignore their posts don't get into arguments with them. Its been said by others a lot of people don't use the political forum because every subject is turned into a slagging match. | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? " There will never be a full plan signed off by the full cabinet. There could never be, could there, with some still wanting to remain and with so many differing opinions? The government can, however, take a generally agreed approach - and I, for one, am sure that the general approach has already been agreed. | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? There will never be a full plan signed off by the full cabinet. There could never be, could there, with some still wanting to remain and with so many differing opinions? The government can, however, take a generally agreed approach - and I, for one, am sure that the general approach has already been agreed." But collective cabinet responsibility is part of our system of government, one that I fear is being worn away by the current (Heathrow) and previous (Brexit) PMs | |||
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"So if there is no plan for Brexit, does that mean we're staying then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37983948"Another example of the post truth society we live in there from the OP. | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? There will never be a full plan signed off by the full cabinet. There could never be, could there, with some still wanting to remain and with so many differing opinions? The government can, however, take a generally agreed approach - and I, for one, am sure that the general approach has already been agreed. But collective cabinet responsibility is part of our system of government, one that I fear is being worn away by the current (Heathrow) and previous (Brexit) PMs" Collective cabinet responsibility is not part of our system of government and never has been. Remember the free vote? Collective responsibility, whereby a minister accepts responsibility for his or her department, is a recognised principle (though is often undermined). Why not let 'em get on with it? | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? There will never be a full plan signed off by the full cabinet. There could never be, could there, with some still wanting to remain and with so many differing opinions? The government can, however, take a generally agreed approach - and I, for one, am sure that the general approach has already been agreed. But collective cabinet responsibility is part of our system of government, one that I fear is being worn away by the current (Heathrow) and previous (Brexit) PMs Collective cabinet responsibility is not part of our system of government and never has been. Remember the free vote? Collective responsibility, whereby a minister accepts responsibility for his or her department, is a recognised principle (though is often undermined). Why not let 'em get on with it?" Well, it is actually. " Cabinet collective responsibility, also known as collective ministerial responsibility,[1] is a constitutional convention in governments using the Westminster System that members of the cabinet must publicly support all governmental decisions made in Cabinet, even if they do not privately agree with them." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibility | |||
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" I started a thread on the major story of the day, that was reported in every major news outlet in the country. You seem to be holding me personally responsible for the accuracy of the story. Is that fair? I'm not holding you responsible for the accuracy of the story, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is , I hold someone in much higher esteem if they can admit something they said might have been flawed in some way. Turning the debate into something else is a very 'politicians' way and quickly makes people dis-regarding of further statements, even when they might be valid. If you can start a thread in the politics forum, and keep 175 posts on track and related to the OP, then I will pay the door fee of which ever UK swingers club you chose! Getting back to the OP, I think its fairly clear that there is, as of yet, no clear plan as to what Brexit means, or what it will look like, that has been agreed and signed off by the full cabinet. Do you agree, or disagree? There will never be a full plan signed off by the full cabinet. There could never be, could there, with some still wanting to remain and with so many differing opinions? The government can, however, take a generally agreed approach - and I, for one, am sure that the general approach has already been agreed. But collective cabinet responsibility is part of our system of government, one that I fear is being worn away by the current (Heathrow) and previous (Brexit) PMs Collective cabinet responsibility is not part of our system of government and never has been. Remember the free vote? Collective responsibility, whereby a minister accepts responsibility for his or her department, is a recognised principle (though is often undermined). Why not let 'em get on with it? Well, it is actually. " Cabinet collective responsibility, also known as collective ministerial responsibility,[1] is a constitutional convention in governments using the Westminster System that members of the cabinet must publicly support all governmental decisions made in Cabinet, even if they do not privately agree with them." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_collective_responsibility " In theory only. In practice it is not how people work. | |||
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